the i dont care about politics anymore thread

[Whale biologist]

Never will

my special gal at the CIA tells me to tell you whiggism was mostly about economic policy

[Baler]

my special gal at the CIA tells me to tell you whiggism was mostly about economic policy

Meh tempest fuckit

edit: just 4 U
Tempus fugit is a Latin phrase, usually translated into English as "time flies".

[Jibartik]

Can you believe we made a movie about people long in the future being the idiots lol the hubris.

[derpcake2]

81 million votes.

[Baler]

A human person works hard for what they believe. Most of us are all on the same page. Then the media tells you to think otherwise. To believe people are subjected and that's why I have to post this shit how I do.

I have to work with all walks of life. french, asian, african, german, and so on. I do not care what they are, where they come from or anything else personal. It's strictly business and respect. If I want people to treat me with respect, I must treat them with respect.

I respect they have their own way of life from the country they come from. I never treat them like a subject to america.

Idk man i'm ranting. but it hurts to think people will throw away their values just to spite someone who doesn't look at life exactly the same way they do.

i'm horrible with words but I hope this made sense.

[Horza]

Hate me but open you eyes to the truth.

and no you fucking anti-semites it's not the jewish folk for fuck sakes.

🤔

[myrddraal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUhg3Q4Ilek

[Jibartik]

Minneapolis man, 29, who opened fire on cops after they shot him with a rubber bullet is acquitted of attempted murder because his attorney argued it was self defense. (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9956435/Man-shot-cops-unrest-Floyd-death-acquitted.html)

[Jibartik]

Even the taliban allow abortion.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58455826

[myrddraal]

the texas bounty doesnt just extend to the women who get them, it extends to someone who may have driven someone to get one, the doctor, nurses, etc. The only exception to the bounty is if the rapist tries to sue, but even then their family or friends could. Its literally fucking insane, and the church of satan is suing for the right to abortions under the freedom of religion. Praise.

[Whale biologist]

the texas bounty doesnt just extend to the women who get them, it extends to someone who may have driven someone to get one, the doctor, nurses, etc. The only exception to the bounty is if the rapist tries to sue, but even then their family or friends could. Its literally fucking insane, and the church of satan is suing for the right to abortions under the freedom of religion. Praise.

I thought it didn't include the women at all, just helpers. Can't rule on merit until you untangle that procedural mess of Gordian Xmas lights.

[starkind]

We wouldn't have these problems if women were just legally allowed to shoot and kill all of the annoying males for any reason.

[Ooloo]

the texas bounty doesnt just extend to the women who get them, it extends to someone who may have driven someone to get one, the doctor, nurses, etc. The only exception to the bounty is if the rapist tries to sue, but even then their family or friends could. Its literally fucking insane, and the church of satan is suing for the right to abortions under the freedom of religion. Praise.

The vast majority of abortions are not due to rape. Only about 1% are, it's a total distraction to bring that up.

Killing babies might be bad, like, just consider that for a second. Maybe? No? Killing babies is bad?

"Get out of my uterus, stupid republicans!!". Well nobody gives a shit about your uterus, it's more the unborn human being living inside it. That's kinda the thing.

[unsunghero]

The vast majority of abortions are not due to rape. Only about 1% are, it's a total distraction to bring that up.

Killing babies might be bad, like, just consider that for a second. Maybe? No? Killing babies is bad?

"Get out of my uterus, stupid republicans!!". Well nobody gives a shit about your uterus, it's more the unborn human being living inside it. That's kinda the thing.

“My body my choice”

Technically if it was your body, you’d be the one terminated in the procedure…

[Horza]

“My body my choice”

Technically if it was your body, you’d be the one terminated in the procedure…

Conservatives are really this stupid.

[pink grapefruit]

Straight men discussing abortion politics on fantasy elf forums.

[unsunghero]

Conservatives are really this stupid.

It’s someone or something (depending on your viewpoint) else’s body. I’m stupid for saying this but masters level educated liberals who claimed it could be classified as a parasite (before I presented proof on how a fetus differs from a parasite) are not?

[Baler]

Straight men discussing abortion politics on fantasy elf forums.

straight men make babies with straight women.

[unsunghero]

I have a rather callous (from the perspective of my party) view of abortion. I’m not deeply religious and do believe adoption centers and group homes are overloaded and there are too many people in the world, so I’m actually pro-choice as close to immediate after conception as possible. As the days and weeks pass and the fetus develops I become more and more pro-life

Edit: nor do I have any faith in liberal’s ability to do responsible family planning or practice safe sex

[Baler]

the abortion topic is one that has no solution.

It's designed to cause conflict between two groups of people while a third profits off their misery.

doesn't matter how angry you get or how correct you think you are. If you participate you lose.

[Gatordash]

Well nobody gives a shit about your uterus, it's more the unborn human being living inside it. That's kinda the thing.
The person whos uterus it is cares more about their unborn baby than you do when making that choice. Their body physiologically and hormonally makes sure of that. So when a woman makes the choice to have an abortion, there is a very good reason for it.

[Gatordash]

the abortion topic is one that has no solution.

It's designed to cause conflict between two groups of people while a third profits off their misery.

doesn't matter how angry you get or how correct you think you are. If you participate you lose.

Pro-choice is a no brainer. I'm republican. Its annoying when dumb republicans do this shit.

[Baler]

Pro-choice is a no brainer. I'm republican. Its annoying when dumb republicans do this shit.

It doesn't matter. note im not saying you don't matter. I'm saying whether you're pro-choice or pro-life, it doesn't matter. It was an argument created with no solution.

[Ooloo]

The argument against abortion is the same as the argument against murder; you're killing a human being.

However I understand there can be other factors at play. If the woman was raped, or the woman faces a serious threat to her own health due to some kind of complication, I support the option to abort the pregnancy.

My issue is that the vast majority of abortions do not fall into either of those categories, it's just people being careless and accidentally conceiving. All of us posting about this topic had the privilege of not being aborted. It's frankly very morbid and creepy to champion abortion as if it's a human right or a good thing. Killing a human is absolutely antithetical to the notion of human rights.

[Baler]

The argument against abortion is the same as the argument against murder; you're killing a human being.

However I understand there can be other factors at play. If the woman was raped, or the woman faces a serious threat to her own health due to some kind of complication, I support the option to abort the pregnancy.

My issue is that the vast majority of abortions do not fall into either of those categories, it's just people being careless and accidentally conceiving. All of us posting about this topic had the privilege of not being aborted. It's frankly very morbid and creepy to champion abortion as if it's a human right or a good thing. Killing a human is absolutely antithetical to the notion of human rights.

You can spin the abortion topic both ways it, does, not, matter.
It was created to keep people in conflict with each other.

Edit: someone smarter than all of us a long, long time ago before you were even born thought up this topic.
They've had years to perfect it.

This is the last post I'll make saying this since I'm apparently beating a dead horse.

[Horza]

It doesn't matter. note im not saying you don't matter. I'm saying whether you're pro-choice or pro-life, it doesn't matter. It was an argument created with no solution.

There wouldn't be an argument at all if conservatives weren't trying to blow up the separation of church and state so they can force their religious beliefs on the rest of us.

[Ooloo]

You can spin the abortion topic both ways it, does, not, matter.
It was created to keep people in conflict with each other.

Edit: someone smarter than all of us a long, long time ago before you were even born thought up this topic.
They've had years to perfect it.

This is the last post I'll make saying this since I'm apparently beating a dead horse.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Sure keeping people divided might be a useful tactic to some, but I'm not sure what that has to do with a philosophical discussion of killing unborn humans. I mean we clearly have a moral standard, as a society. Why should this topic be off the table? Seems arbitrary.

Also lol at horza for yet again pulling the "discussing it on an elf forum" thing. Totally irrelevant. As if posting on an elf forum means you *only* post on an elf forum. This is off-topic, it is specifically designated for discussing things not related to everquest or p99. That's all I'm doing.

[Ooloo]

There wouldn't be an argument at all if conservatives weren't trying to blow up the separation of church and state so they can force their religious beliefs on the rest of us.

No there is a perfectly secular argument against abortion, it's the same one we use against murder. You're killing a human, full stop. There's no magical distinction where a fertilized egg "becomes" a person, it's a totally arbitrary distinction. But again I'm not hard-line about it, I understand the mother has interests too, and I've already made those concessions. You can keep the value of the unborn child and the mother in mind simultaneously, it's not a binary yes or no issue.

[Gatordash]

The argument against abortion is the same as the argument against murder; you're killing a human being.

However I understand there can be other factors at play. If the woman was raped, or the woman faces a serious threat to her own health due to some kind of complication, I support the option to abort the pregnancy.

My issue is that the vast majority of abortions do not fall into either of those categories, it's just people being careless and accidentally conceiving. All of us posting about this topic had the privilege of not being aborted. It's frankly very morbid and creepy to champion abortion as if it's a human right or a good thing. Killing a human is absolutely antithetical to the notion of human rights.

You're wrong because you are assuming the person who carelessly gets pregnant is also carelessly getting an abortion. That's not how it works. This is a huge decision for the woman getting an abortion and it is going to be something they think about every day for the rest of their life, so its incredibly ridiculous that you/crazy republican politician thinks they are better at making this woman's decision than her.

[Baler]

How about responsibility for your own actions.
How about that.

[Horza]

Anyone else remember when Republicans used to at least pretend to care about the Constitution?

[Whale biologist]

Straight men discussing abortion politics on fantasy elf forums.

Surrendering your right to privacy to own the Libs.

[Ooloo]

You're wrong because you are assuming the person who carelessly gets pregnant is also carelessly getting an abortion. That's not how it works. This is a huge decision for the woman getting an abortion and it is going to be something they think about every day for the rest of their life, so its incredibly ridiculous that you/crazy republican politician thinks they are better at making this woman's decision than her.

I have no doubt that getting an abortion is an emotionally taxing experience. I'm sure it is. That's also irrelevant, the mother getting the abortion isn't just making a decision for herself, she's making a decision for the unborn child who has no say in the matter. And she can also bring it to term and then put it up for adoption if she doesn't want to raise it, there are more families seeking adoption than babies needing adoption, it's not even close.

[Ooloo]

Surrendering your right to privacy to own the Libs.

What are you talking about?

[Baler]

I have no doubt that getting an abortion is an emotionally taxing experience.

it is?
huh :confused:, these tiktok videos show girls singing and laughing when they're getting a kid sucked out of them with a vacuum.

[Whale biologist]

What are you talking about?

How dumb you are mostly. Mostly.

[Gatordash]

I have no doubt that getting an abortion is an emotionally taxing experience. I'm sure it is. That's also irrelevant, the mother getting the abortion isn't just making a decision for herself, she's making a decision for the unborn child who has no say in the matter. And she can also bring it to term and then put it up for adoption if she doesn't want to raise it, there are more families seeking adoption than babies needing adoption, it's not even close.

You/crazy republican politician, should not get your say or opinion for every parent's child in the state of Texas more then the actual mother of the child.

[Baler]

You/crazy republican politician, should not get your say or opinion for every parent's child in the state of Texas more then the actual mother of the child.

The supreme court already ruled on abortion by the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade

So the gov has had a say for 50 years.

[Ooloo]

it is?
huh :confused:, these tiktok videos show girls singing and laughing when they're getting a kid sucked out of them with a vacuum.

Well yeah, I think they are an exception though. But maybe not, killing a human certainly *should* be emotionally taxing in any case.

[Baler]

Well yeah, I think they are an exception though. But maybe not, killing a human certainly *should* be emotionally taxing in any case.

I mean,.. there is always plan b.
ba dum tss

one side of the room laughs while the other walks out.
Thank you I'll be here all week.

[Ooloo]

You/crazy republican politician, should not get your say or opinion for every parent's child in the state of Texas more then the actual mother of the child.

You realize that law only bans abortions after six weeks? So you have six whole weeks to still legally get an abortion.

And again I *DO SUPPORT* abortion under specific circumstances. I'm willing to compromise, the pro-choicers apparently aren't.

The dem line used to be "safe legal and rare", now it's "killing babies is good, you go kween!!". It's morbid and disturbing.

Don't fuck without a condom if you don't want a baby. You're doing the thing that makes babies. It's not even remotely complicated.

And btw I'm just as critical of men who fuck irresponsibly, they aren't off the hook at all. In fact I have more disdain for dudes who just fuck and bail.

[Baler]

Don't fuck without a condom if you don't want a baby. You're doing the thing that makes babies. It's not even remotely complicated.

what if the condom broke, is it okay then?

[Whale biologist]

You realize that law only bans abortions after six weeks? So you have six whole weeks to still legally get an abortion.

And again I *DO SUPPORT* abortion under specific circumstances. I'm willing to compromise, the pro-choicers apparently aren't.

The dem line used to be "safe legal and rare", now it's "killing babies is good, you go kween!!". It's morbid and disturbing.

Don't fuck without a condom if you don't want a baby. You're doing the thing that makes babies. It's not even remotely complicated.

And btw I'm just as critical of men who fuck irresponsibly, they aren't off the hook at all. In fact I have more disdain for dudes who just fuck and bail.

Govern me harder, Daddy. :rolleyes:

[Ooloo]

what if the condom broke, is it okay then?

No, you still made the choice to do the thing that makes babies. I understand condoms aren't totally foolproof.

That's all ancillary though; the point is don't murder babies. And it doesn't require any kind of religion or anything, I'm an atheist. Don't murder babies. Done.

Why do you care if somebody murders your best friend, or mother, or father, or brother, or sister? Same reason you shouldn't murder a baby.

[Baler]

No, you still made the choice to do the thing that makes babies. I understand condoms aren't totally foolproof.

That's all ancillary though; the point is don't murder babies. And it doesn't require any kind of religion or anything, I'm an atheist. Don't murder babies. Done.

alright *writes this down* okay, what if the sperm is traveling at the speed of sound and happens to penetrate a women hitting their ovaries and impregnates them, is it okay then?

[Gatordash]

You realize that law only bans abortions after six weeks? So you have six whole weeks to still legally get an abortion.

And again I *DO SUPPORT* abortion under specific circumstances. I'm willing to compromise, the pro-choicers apparently aren't.

The dem line used to be "safe legal and rare", now it's "killing babies is good, you go kween!!". It's morbid and disturbing.

Don't fuck without a condom if you don't want a baby. You're doing the thing that makes babies. It's not even remotely complicated.

And btw I'm just as critical of men who fuck irresponsibly, they aren't off the hook at all. In fact I have more disdain for dudes who just fuck and bail.

Look you are obviously very uniformed on how child conception works but that's kinda my point, it shouldn't be up to you/republican politician, it should be up to the informed people like the mother of the child and her doctor.

That's nice you are willing to compromise but the fact is the same politician's who outlaw abortion also do their best to outlaw preventative measures of birth control.

Come back to real life and stop living on twitter if you think 'the dem line is killing babies is good'.

Again, that's nice you have disdain for the men but for the same biological reasons I was talking about before, 99 times out of 100 the woman is going to raise the baby and the man is off the hook if they want to be because the woman physiologically changes to care more about the baby.

[Baler]

Look you are obviously very uniformed on the how child conception works but that's kinda my point, it shouldn't be up to you/republican politician, it should be up to the informed people like the mother of the child and her doctor.

How informed is a person who conceives but doesn't want it.
Are they really the gold standard in your eyes?

[Gatordash]

How informed is a person who conceives but doesn't want it.
Are they really the gold standard in your eyes?

The person who who has the child knows more about their situation then anyone else soooooo... pretty informed.

Gold standard for what?

[Baler]

The person who who has the child knows more about their situation then anyone else soooooo... pretty informed.

Gold standard for what?

So their situation is totally unique and has never happened in the history of mankind?

btw I have no horse in this race if you don't want to respond to me, I said it like 3 pages back. I'm just here for the post count.

[Gatordash]

So their situation is totally unique and has never happened in the history of mankind?

btw I have no horse in this race if you don't want to respond to me, I said it like 3 pages back. I'm just here for the post count.

I don't really see the point in responding to something that gets taken off in a tangent. Your question is a little philosophical but I guess I would say yes that I think everyone is different and everyone's situation is a little different.

[Horza]

https://i.imgur.com/PCopJV9.jpg

[unsunghero]

I find it funny how Roe vs Wade was regarding the constitutionality of abortion like….uh pretty sure when the constitution was written there was no semblance of the idea that we would have the technology to do medical abortions

[Jibartik]

And he is RIGHT!

[Baler]

I find it funny how Roe vs Wade was regarding the constitutionality of abortion like….uh pretty sure when the constitution was written there was no semblance of the idea that we would have the technology to do medical abortions

During the colonial period there was legality surrounding abortion that varied from colony to colony.
Abortion back then carried a stigma of shame. Now we have women doing tiktok videos singing rap songs about murder in the waiting room before an abortion.

Look back a few pages. I told everyone this topic isn't new and was thought up by someone smarter than all of us before we were even born.
It's a argument that can't be won by either of the two sides and a third side profits off it.

edit: The founding fathers knew about abortion. People have been making babies since the dawn of mankind lol.

[Horza]

I find it funny how Roe vs Wade was regarding the constitutionality of abortion like….uh pretty sure when the constitution was written there was no semblance of the idea that we would have the technology to do medical abortions

Ancient Rome had abortions over two thousand years ago.

[Baler]

Ancient Rome had abortions over two thousand years ago.

primitive humans had abortion before they had fire.

don't shoot the messenger.

edit: it's a topic as old as time. Someone smarter than us thousands of years ago made it a talking point. They probably then snuck into both sides caves and stole their berries while the two sides argued about the topic.

[Danth]

….uh pretty sure when the constitution was written there was no semblance of the idea that we would have the technology to do medical abortions

If you think that, you're incorrect. That sort of procedure, in more primitive forms, existed long before our nation--back to ancient times. Depending on the culture some societies regarded the recently born as fair game as well for their parents to cull if desired. As a rule governments tended to get involved in promoting population increases mostly for nationalistic reasons--wanting manpower for the military machine, or at least an increased tax and labor base.

Danth

[Thorgrimm]

If you think that, you're incorrect. That sort of procedure, in more primitive forms, existed long before our nation--back to ancient times. Depending on the culture some societies regarded the recently born as fair game as well for their parents to cull if desired. As a rule governments tended to get involved in promoting population increases mostly for nationalistic reasons--wanting manpower for the military machine, or at least an increased tax and labor base.

Danth

Yea they just threw them off a mountain or tossed them into a fire for Moloch

[Baler]

Farmers use to have large families so they had people to work the fields.
Now most people do their farming at the grocery store and don't see any benefit to a large family.

[Ooloo]

Ancient Rome had abortions over two thousand years ago.

Who cares? They were wrong too.

Don't kill babies is the point, if you wanna make some kind of argument as to why they aren't actually babies go ahead and do so.

[Baler]

Who cares? They were wrong too.

Don't kill babies is the point, if you wanna make some kind of argument as to why they aren't actually babies go ahead and do so.

You ever eaten a chicken egg?

[Horza]

Who cares? They were wrong too.

Don't kill babies is the point, if you wanna make some kind of argument as to why they aren't actually babies go ahead and do so.

According to a new poll by PerryUndem, 66% of college-educated workers say they would not take a job in a state that prohibits abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, as Texas now does after the Supreme Court failed to intervene on Senate Bill 8. Roughly half of respondents said they would consider moving out of a state that passed such restrictions. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2021/09/02/survey-two-thirds-of-college-educated-workers--may-avoid-texas-because-of--abortion-ban/?sh=58e31bb56e4c)

[Jibartik]

Ancient Rome had abortions over two thousand years ago.

Look up why, and then ask yourself why you think we need them now.

Spoiler: it was to control slaves and poor people.

:o

[Horza]

Look up why, and then ask yourself why you think we need them now.

Spoiler: it was to control slaves and poor people.

:o

If you really think only slaves and poor people aborted pregnancies, you're even stupider than I thought.

[Ooloo]

You ever eaten a chicken egg?

Yes, because they are chickens not humans. Humans are unique because we have civilization, we suppress our nature when we consider it moral to do so. Thus we don't (or shouldn't) murder eachother. Lions and hippos and shit murder eachother all the time. We don't, because we're civilized. That extends to unborn human children as well.

There is simply no good argument in favor of 3rd trimester abortion that wouldn't also apply to just killing infants. A human magically becomes a human after they pass out of a ladie's vag? No, that's crazy.

[Jibartik]

If you really think only slaves and poor people aborted pregnancies, you're even stupider than I thought.

Smarter than you: What you say doesn't change why they allowed it. You're arguing about allowing abortion, not who gets them.

I explained why it was allowed, and why you want it allowed now is same reason.

Sorry population control tool is going away and you cant maintain the draconian medicine from a primitive 3rd world society in your modern 1st world one 2000 years later.

[Trexller]

According to a new poll by PerryUndem, 66% of college-educated workers say they would not take a job in a state that prohibits abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, as Texas now does after the Supreme Court failed to intervene on Senate Bill 8. Roughly half of respondents said they would consider moving out of a state that passed such restrictions. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2021/09/02/survey-two-thirds-of-college-educated-workers--may-avoid-texas-because-of--abortion-ban/?sh=58e31bb56e4c)

As a former Texan, good riddance lol. They couldnt make rent in cali, so they moved to TX, now they don't like TX legislature, so they are gonna move... back to cali i guess?

[Baler]

As a former Texan, good riddance lol. They couldnt make rent in cali, so they moved to TX, now they don't like TX legislature, so they are gonna move... back to cali i guess?

carpetbaggers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpetbagger) am I right

[Jibartik]

When we start the new America I hope we add this to the rules:

1. thou shall be responsible for thine actions.

[Horza]

As a former Texan, good riddance lol. They couldnt make rent in cali, so they moved to TX, now they don't like TX legislature, so they are gonna move... back to cali i guess?

Brain drain is good?

[Danth]

1. thou shall be responsible for thine actions.

Playing devil's advocate, that can be interpreted both ways. A mother putting down an unwanted pregnancy could be regarded as the very act of taking responsibility for one's own actions, as opposed to loafing an unwanted child off on the rest of her family or on society more generally.

There is simply no good argument in favor of 3rd trimester abortion that wouldn't also apply to just killing infants.

Logically you could indeed apply the same arguments to recently born. Some societies have done so. Our own society decided to use birth as an arbitrary cut-off for issues such as citizenship and rights. Birth does possess the practical advantage of being an extremely obvious moment in time. Conception would be another very obvious point, albeit one that leaves no room for circumstance like medical necessity or moral reasons.

Danth

[Jibartik]

Playing devil's advocate, that can be interpreted both ways.

Hence why sarcasm is dangerous in court.

[Whale biologist]

can't wait to give Louie Gohmert my search history after Roe is overturned

Take that, Libs!

[Jibartik]

Everywhere I see Now Hiring signs.

How will the economy recover if a large portion of the work force is on unemployment?

Because soon inflation will be so high because of those high wages that people will have to go back to work.

perfect system joe is setting up here.

https://i.imgur.com/37yi9OK.gif

[Baler]

Because soon inflation will be so high because of those high wages that people will have to go back to work.

perfect system joe is setting up here.

I deleted that post because people wanted to talk about abortion and I sort of shoe horned unemployment in there. :o

[Jibartik]

Well I liked my reply so I don wana delete.

[Danth]

Because soon inflation will be so high because of those high wages that people will have to go back to work.

I was making that joke (sadly it's not a joke) to the wife a year ago or more: The government will get its $15/hr minimum wage, but by the time it does it'll be worth what $6/hour used to be worth. At this point that might be the better outcome. Their complete lack of even the semblance of financial discipline is a dangerous road that could easily lead to currency collapse.

Danth

[Jibartik]

I was making that joke (sadly it's not a joke) to the wife a year ago or more: The government will get its $15/hr minimum wage, but by the time it does it'll be worth what $6/hour used to be worth. At this point that might be the better outcome. Their complete lack of even the semblance of financial discipline is a dangerous road that could easily lead to currency collapse.

Danth

I am told by the generation that payed 2-3 times their annual salary for a home that paying 10-40 times it is a sign of a strong economy, not one begging to collapse. :o

[Gatordash]

I was making that joke (sadly it's not a joke) to the wife a year ago or more: The government will get its $15/hr minimum wage, but by the time it does it'll be worth what $6/hour used to be worth. At this point that might be the better outcome. Their complete lack of even the semblance of financial discipline is a dangerous road that could easily lead to currency collapse.

Danth

What's really troubling is the White House will release a congratulatory statement for themselves like, "Joe Biden's American Family Plan lifted 5 million children out of poverty" and people will celebrate it, but are too dumb to realize printing money and handing out checks to those families is going to markedly increase inflation and those 5 million children are going to be even poorer next year... UNLESS you print even more money the next year to hand out to those families which will inevitably cause more inflation and those same people will be even poorer the following year... UNLESS you print even more money the following year and keep going until the general public realizes our government has gotten themselves into one hell of a Ponzi scheme.

[Jibartik]

can't wait to give Louie Gohmert my search history after Roe is overturned

Take that, Libs!

Under his eye.

[unsunghero]

According to a new poll by PerryUndem, 66% of college-educated workers say they would not take a job in a state that prohibits abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, as Texas now does after the Supreme Court failed to intervene on Senate Bill 8. Roughly half of respondents said they would consider moving out of a state that passed such restrictions. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2021/09/02/survey-two-thirds-of-college-educated-workers--may-avoid-texas-because-of--abortion-ban/?sh=58e31bb56e4c)

Polling college students/graduates demonstrates absolutely nothing other than the effectiveness of political indoctrination of higher education and our society’s incorrect tendency to try to associate credentialism with success when alternative forms of skills development become increasingly more lucrative

[unsunghero]

Also, obviously there existed “abortions” back to the cave man days. The reason I said MEDICAL abortions was to separate the constitutionality of those versus asking Bob to punch you in the stomach a few times as hard as he can

[Horza]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15571&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1630958982

I also base my views on complicated social issues on low res 4chan memes :)

[unsunghero]

I also base my views on complicated social issues on low res 4chan memes :)

I care about the opinions of others beyond those that are now unemployed asking for daddy government to pay back the student loans they stupidly chose to take for lesbian dance theory and gender studies majors

Such as someone who learned a trade skill

[Baler]

Polling college students/graduates demonstrates absolutely nothing other than the effectiveness of political indoctrination of higher education and our society’s incorrect tendency to try to associate credentialism with success when alternative forms of skills development become increasingly more lucrative

There was a shift in the 90s from blue collar workers to white collar workers.

That shift royally screw up the productivity because we need more blue collar than white collar workers. But at the time they thought the new millennium would change everything and really not much changed.

Tradeskills are ALWAYS in demand and gurentee pay. We just need people to fill the role.
Skip college go to a trade school.

[Jibartik]

People leave texas because of abortion law

Texans :D

[Baler]

People leave texas because of abortion law

Texans :D

maybe the texas democrats will use their private jet(s) paid for by texans to fly these people to a safe space. :rolleyes:

[Danth]

..The reason I said MEDICAL abortions

Societies like the Romans had medical abortions, at least medical in the sense of surgical procedure done by or under supervision of a doctor. They had dramatically higher risk than the modern equivalent and quite often resulted in permanent sterilization, but they had it.

------------------------

A not insignificant part of why certain trades like electricians maintain good rates of pay is because the trade guilds which control those professions deliberately maintain artificial scarcity. That being said, the entire notion that everyone should go to college has accomplished nothing except increase in debt loadings and devaluation of both high school and lower-end college degrees. It's clearly a mistake--a well-intentioned mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

Danth

[Baler]

A not insignificant part of why certain trades like electricians maintain good rates of pay is because the trade guilds which control those professions deliberately maintain artificial scarcity. That being said, the entire notion that everyone should go to college has accomplished nothing except increase in debt loadings and devaluation of both high school and lower-end college degrees. It's clearly a mistake--a well-intentioned mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

Danth

My issue with college is the number of young people who pick something that has no realistic application in the real world. They have no guarantee of work after they finish college which leads to the problem of college dept for an extended period of time. And it's not big daddy governments job to wipe the college dept clean basically saving these people from their own stupid choice.

[Jibartik]

Help me tom cruise!

EAk8PjCsXQ8

[Gatordash]

My issue with college is the number of young people who pick something that has no realistic application in the real world. They have no guarantee of work after they finish college which leads to the problem of college dept for an extended period of time. And it's not big daddy governments job to wipe the college dept clean basically saving these people from their own stupid choice.

But what if I had a masters degree in film from a prestigious school like Columbia.

Financially Hobbled for Life: The Elite Masters Degrees That Don't Pay Off (https://www.wsj.com/articles/financially-hobbled-for-life-the-elite-masters-degrees-that-dont-pay-off-11625752773)

[Horza]

Surely even conservatives realize you need some college educated people for Texas to not collapse economically, or are you just going to keep spamming 4chan memes rather than face the repercussions of your medieval politics.

[Trexller]

Surely even conservatives realize you need some college educated people for Texas to not collapse economically, or are you just going to keep spamming 4chan memes rather than face the repercussions of your medieval politics.

We weren't short of college grads before the mass lib migration to TX.

So big brain man, answer me this: what are the repercussions of "our" medieval politics?

Just my attempt to get a coherent fact based opinion out of a liberal jack-in-the-box.

[Whale biologist]

But what if I had a masters degree in film from a prestigious school like Columbia.

Financially Hobbled for Life: The Elite Masters Degrees That Don't Pay Off (https://www.wsj.com/articles/financially-hobbled-for-life-the-elite-masters-degrees-that-dont-pay-off-11625752773)

Ooh I know this one!

"Anecdote is not data" :p

[Horza]

We weren't short of college grads before the mass lib migration to TX.

So big brain man, answer me this: what are the repercussions of medieval politics?

Just my attempt to get a coherent fact based opinion out of a liberal jack-in-the-box.

College grads aren't all libs, dummy.

[Gatordash]

Ooh I know this one!

"Anecdote is not data" :p

I mean its data its just largely an outlier. I think they have a scatter chart in there somewhere with debt vs income

[Trexller]

College grads aren't all libs, dummy.

Surprise Surprise, another dodge. You aren't by chance... Jen Psaki, are you?

I'll ask again, just to shine a bright light on the fact that you don't engage, offer opinion or anecdote. You're nothing more than a magic 8 ball with the same 20 liberal talking points over and over. Prove me wrong on that, if you can muster the stones. or brains.

answer me this: what are the repercussions of "our" medieval politics?

Just my attempt to get a coherent fact based opinion out of a liberal jack-in-the-box.

[Whale biologist]

Surprise Surprise, another dodge. You aren't by chance... Jen Psaki, are you?

I'll ask again, just to shine a bright light on the fact that you don't engage, offer opinion or anecdote. You're nothing more than a magic 8 ball with the same 20 liberal talking points over and over. Prove me wrong on that, if you can muster the stones. or brains.

Horza isn't a lib at all.

https://i.imgur.com/da0fvqF.gif

[unsunghero]

College grads aren't all libs, dummy.

“68% of college grads agree with democrat talking points according to the poll I picked because it matched my viewpoints”

Yay, now let’s do what % of blue collar workers DON’T agree with those viewpoints. Or are they just too damn dumb to be allowed to have an opinion because they fix toilets for a living but still make 60k a year while I guarantee a chunk of those college grads are now working at Starbucks

[Thorgrimm]

College grads aren't all libs, dummy.

Once indoctrinated by Left Wing Propaganda instead of receiving a practical education they usually are

[Ooloo]

You literally won't graduate without being a lib or pretending to be a lib. Conservatives have to actually pretend they are far left marxists to graduate. Less so for undergrad, but certainly for masters.

There are literally now courses on "white studies", which is basically the study of why white people are bad.

[Gatordash]

You literally won't graduate without being a lib or pretending to be a lib. Conservatives have to actually pretend they are far left marxists to graduate. Less so for undergrad, but certainly for masters.

There are literally now courses on "white studies", which is basically the study of why white people are bad.

I wonder what percentage of graduates with a BA in women's studies are republican. What a poll that would be!

[Horza]

You literally won't graduate without being a lib or pretending to be a lib. Conservatives have to actually pretend they are far left marxists to graduate.

The fact that you think being a liberal Democrat is a requirement to graduate from college says more about your lack of education than anything about demographics.

[Ooloo]

The fact that you think being a liberal Democrat is a requirement to graduate from college says more about your lack of education than anything about demographics.

Yeah, cause college professors love conservatives. I guess you don't *need* to be a lib, you just can't be a conservative. If you can pretend to be some wacky libertarian sophist I guess that can work too.

[Cecily]

I wonder what percentage of graduates with a BA in women's studies are republican. What a poll that would be!
Radfems are prrrrretty much conservatives.

[imperiouskitten]

Radfems are prrrrretty much conservatives.

true but that's IRL, not when you are having a sleepover inside a homoerotic mirror box with your Tucker fan boy-pals. inside there i am as left wing as Stalin (just like all 15 year old enby teens) and my knees are too pointy to confuse anyone sexually. everything makes good sense in there, theres a in-group and a out-group and I am not interested in hearing anymore nuance than a Tom and Jerry cartoon thank you.

BTW got gendered correctly handling lumber at home depot yesterday

[Jibartik]

The fact that you think being a liberal Democrat is a requirement to graduate from college says more about your lack of education than anything about demographics.

You trying to tell me you think the wizards guild is the same as the warriors guild?

[Gatordash]

BTW got gendered correctly handling lumber at home depot yesterday

That a euphemism?

[Toxigen]

i studied underwater basketweaving and i think joe biden is great

ama

[imperiouskitten]

i studied underwater basketweaving and i think joe biden is great

ama


luckily every chick here is medical educated or military or otherwise very clearly competent. it's pretty cool actually.

maybe ur posts would resonate more on Redditfacebook ? u seem very interested in the lowest common denominator. we got way more interesting fauna here

[unsunghero]

luckily every chick here is medical educated or military or otherwise very clearly competent. it's pretty cool actually.

maybe ur posts would resonate more on Redditfacebook ? u seem very interested in the lowest common denominator. we got way more interesting fauna here

However, surveys/polls about policy making especially about subjects that people see as moral or ethical controversies shouldn’t require a college degree to participate in or have an opinion about

The fact that the poll was to a select of people who past exit polls show only 45% (probably less now, this was years ago) of vote Republican is no coincidence. It’s just manipulation of statistics as a propaganda tactic. Like I said poll blue collar workers in Texas and you will likely see a huge swing the other way

Edit: shit wasn’t the question about like 6 week+ abortions? I’m even against those barring extreme circumstances and I’m pro-choice for as close to after conception as possible. Shit, it seems like libs would vote to kill that fetus right up to the point the mom’s fucking water breaks. It’s like you said before, the later the abortion is done, the grosser it gets

[unsunghero]

I mean, I’m trying to be sympathetic to people like Gatordash who clearly seems to have personal experience with knowing women put through the mental trauma of deciding to have an abortion but 6+ fucking weeks?

I’m definitely not the expert on women’s bodies either but periods usually about a month right? Between 21-40 days? And a missed period is a pretty obvious sign of a pregnancy? Unprotected sex is a pretty fucking good sign too but a missed period is another and that’s within 4 weeks

How much is a pregnancy testing kit? Like cheap as shit? What are these poor women doing those additional 2 weeks? “Well I had unprotected sex and figured I could be pregnant but then I figured nah, why get tested, let’s just play it by ear. But then when I missed my next cycle I figured something was probably up but yknow I had mid-terms going on and after that it was the Cabo vacation so I figured ah, I’ll get it tested some time next month”

Granted, I’ll make an exception for women who are basically homeless, who’s focus is just surviving another day themselves. For others I’m sorry my sympathy kind of dries up on the waiting 6 fucking weeks to get tested. I’m expected to rush and get a covid test as soon as my temperature raises 1 degrees and that’s even more hassle than a pregnancy one. Get yo shit together and get it done before 6 weeks

Anyway, come on in and chew me up for that women and Horza

[Horza]

A two week window to get an abortion after missing your period will effectively outlaw all abortions in the state.

[unsunghero]

A two week window to get an abortion after missing your period will effectively outlaw all abortions in the state.

Planned pregnancy’s own website mentions some clinics do abortions the same day you get a positive pregnancy test

ASSUMING you didn’t just use a morning after pill going to one of those clinics would be my recommendation. Or just make it legal to terminate that parasite whenever’s clever, whenever’s convenient. Don’t bail on Lollapalooza for it, those tix are expensive

[unsunghero]

You got a car? You can afford bus fare? You got a parasite that needs terminating. Here you go

[Horza]

Planned pregnancy’s own website mentions some clinics do abortions the same day you get a positive pregnancy test

ASSUMING you didn’t just use a morning after pill going to one of those clinics would be my recommendation. Or just make it legal to terminate that parasite whenever’s clever, whenever’s convenient. Don’t bail on Lollapalooza for it, those tix are expensive

The morning after pill only works about 80% of the time, you fucking incel.

[unsunghero]

The morning after pill only works about 80% of the time, you fucking incel.

You’re right, only 87% likely to work what a fucking waste of $2

“ the pill within 72 hours after you've had unprotected sex, levonorgestrel can reduce the risk of pregnancy by up to 87% ”

[Gatordash]

I mean, I’m trying to be sympathetic to people like Gatordash who clearly seems to have personal experience with knowing women put through the mental trauma of deciding to have an abortion but 6+ fucking weeks?



I work in healthcare (not reproductive healthcare). Its just amazing to me how uniformed people are on a topic that should actually be taken seriously by knowledgeable people. And I think the politicians and judges who make these decisions are on the same level that you are. I mean they are clearly largely uniformed to come up with the 6 week number.

[unsunghero]

I work in healthcare (not reproductive healthcare). Its just amazing to me how uniformed people are on a topic that should actually be taken seriously by knowledgeable people. And I think the politicians and judges who make these decisions are on the same level that you are. I mean they are clearly largely uniformed to come up with the 6 week number.

I just showed there’s clinics that do same day abortions. I drove 140 miles in June to buy a car and I consider killing the parasite growing inside you to be a much more important decision than that. There is no limit to how far I personally would go to locate one of those clinics (and greyhound bus exists for affordable long distance travel), had I become committed to that decision

[Gatordash]

I just showed there’s clinics that do same day abortions. I drove 140 miles in June to buy a car and I consider killing the parasite growing inside you to be a much more important decision than that. There is no limit to how far I personally would go to locate one of those clinics (and greyhound bus exists for affordable long distance travel), had I become committed to that decision

I think most Planned Parenthoods or women's clinics aimed at this sort of thing are walk-in based but maybe I'm wrong, so I don't really get the same day rant you just went on.

Anyways, women can bleed while they're pregnant. Some women bleed multiple times when they are pregnant and the baby is still fine. So in your scenario, a woman might think that bleeding is her regular period and think she is not pregnant.

Pee on a stick pregnancy tests are largely accurate but not always. They are like 85% accurate I think? But being wrong 15 out of 100 times is not insignificant. It takes about 5-7 days to start producing gonadtropin levels after fertilization that can be seen on the test. Also, sperm can live like up to a week in a fallopian tube, so we are already at two weeks. Even so, you would need to then get an appointment with an OBGYN to have bloodwork done to confirm if you are pregnant or not. I guess it would depend on your state, but my state your are looking at 4-6 weeks to get that appointment. Anyways you can see that even if you are a woman on top of your shit, you can easily still get pregnant and be unable to get an abortion in Texas, even if its a same day clinic.

So politicians are either largely uniformed, or know what they are doing and know they are basically outlawing abortion.

[Whale biologist]

Stupid women deserve rights too.

[unsunghero]

I think most Planned Parenthoods or women's clinics aimed at this sort of thing are walk-in based but maybe I'm wrong, so I don't really get the same day rant you just went on.

Anyways, women can bleed while they're pregnant. Some women bleed multiple times when they are pregnant and the baby is still fine. So in your scenario, a woman might think that bleeding is her regular period and think she is not pregnant.

Pee on a stick pregnancy tests are largely accurate but not always. They are like 85% accurate I think? But being wrong 15 out of 100 times is not insignificant. It takes about 5-7 days to start producing gonadtropin levels after fertilization that can be seen on the test. Also, sperm can live like up to a week in a fallopian tube, so we are already at two weeks. Even so, you would need to then get an appointment with an OBGYN to have bloodwork done to confirm if you are pregnant or not. I guess it would depend on your state, but my state your are looking at 4-6 weeks to get that appointment. Anyways you can see that even if you are a woman on top of your shit, you can easily still get pregnant and be unable to get an abortion in Texas, even if its a same day clinic.

So politicians are either largely uniformed, or know what they are doing and know they are basically outlawing abortion.

The planned parenthood site said there are clinics that do abortions on the same day you get a positive pregnancy test. If you hit the back button and go back one page I pasted a pic, or you can read the page yourself here

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/abortion/in-clinic-abortion-procedures

It definitely does not take 4-6 weeks in my state to make an appointment with a doctor or to schedule bloodwork. Whenever I’ve requested bloodwork from my PCP (and in my state you can get in to see your pcp usually within a few days to at most a week). I was given the address of a lab that I went to that same day

The reason politicians are picking those times (IM GUESSING) is due to the development of the embryo and trying to make a estimated guess at what constitutes life

I guarantee you it’s not an effort to make abortion illegal and even if it was, abortion being illegal in one area does not = the end of abortion. It means people will travel farther or it will just drive the services underground, probably at a cost of quality and safety, which is one of the more compelling arguments I’ve heard against attempting to criminalize them but one no pro-choicer has presented here yet

[Thorgrimm]

A two week window to get an abortion after missing your period will effectively outlaw all abortions in the state.

Why are you so dead set on killing babies

It's morbid

[Whale biologist]

You have to admire pro-lifers, they've had a secure fortress in fetal viability since 1992 yet keep insisting on more and more restrictions.

Did I say admire? :o

[Thorgrimm]

You have to admire pro-lifers, they've had a secure fortress in fetal viability since 1992 yet keep insisting on more and more restrictions.

Did I say admire? :o

Well it's easy to be pro kill baby if you weren't murdered by your own mother

[unsunghero]

My issue is that the arguments for why someone may choose to get an abortion ARE solid arguments, things such as 10% of pregnancy tests aren't accurate, 10% of morning after pills don't work

So picture a typical person, unequipped financially and situationally to have a kid, and believing that adoption centers are simply too overloaded or otherwise doesn't want to look at that option. So she has unprotected sex, and gets pregnant. But let's say she anticipated this, and tried a morning after pill, and happened to be in the 10% where it didn't work. She was worried she may be pregnant, so she bought an at home test but was in the 10% where that didn't work either

This possibility is a strong reason for needing to get a post 6+ week abortion, because on paper this woman tried her best (other than the unprotected sex part). And I don't doubt if questioned (which in behavioral health this is absolutely beat OUT of us, in addition to never referring to the pregnancy as a "baby") would probably claim that they tried the morning after pill or they tried a pregnancy test and it simply didn't work. Do you know what % of women would be making that claim, if questioned? WAYYYY the fuck more than 10%. Which means what? It means that some of these women are not only irresponsible about family planning, but also dishonest about it

And gatordash claims that an abortion is the hardest decision in some women's life, one that can require therapy to get over, or may never be able to escape the guilt. And this is absolutely true. For some women. You will never convince me that this is true for ALL women who choose to get one

And one method you use to alleviate feelings of guilt for what the mind might see as an "evil" action is to un-person the victim. "Gay people aren't human". "Jews aren't human". Always step 1 to getting a society to be more comfortable with something that they might have a moral objection to is to un-person the victim. "It's not a developing human, it's just a collection of cells"

Gatordash would likely be furious reading this so I'll make a disclaimer:

I'm not saying it's productive to call the fetus a baby to the woman and pile on needless guilt onto a person who already might be feeling the most guilt they've ever felt in their life. I personally wouldn't do it, not in my job or my personal life. I'm saying that a pro-lifer who believes it is a murder, and believes if they could change the person's mind they prevented a murder, WOULD be willing to adopt that tactic. That's why they do it, regardless of how productive or messed up or whatever other people feel about that tactic

[Horza]

You have to admire pro-lifers, they've had a secure fortress in fetal viability since 1992 yet keep insisting on more and more restrictions.

Did I say admire? :o

If we keep calling our political opponents baby killers and comparing pro-choice advocates to antisemites, then suburban moderates have to support us in the midterms :p

[Thorgrimm]

My issue is that the arguments for why someone may choose to get an abortion ARE solid arguments, things such as 10% of pregnancy tests aren't accurate, 10% of morning after pills don't work

So picture a typical person, unequipped financially and situationally to have a kid, and believing that adoption centers are simply too overloaded or otherwise doesn't want to look at that option. So she has unprotected sex, and gets pregnant. But let's say she anticipated this, and tried a morning after pill, and happened to be in the 10% where it didn't work. She was worried she may be pregnant, so she bought an at home test but was in the 10% where that didn't work either

This possibility is a strong reason for needing to get a post 6+ week abortion, because on paper this woman tried her best (other than the unprotected sex part). And I don't doubt if questioned (which in behavioral health this is absolutely beat OUT of us, in addition to never referring to the pregnancy as a "baby") would probably claim that they tried the morning after pill or they tried a pregnancy test and it simply didn't work. Do you know what % of women would be making that claim, if questioned? WAYYYY the fuck more than 10%. Which means what? It means that some of these women are not only irresponsible about family planning, but also dishonest about it

And gatordash claims that an abortion is the hardest decision in some women's life, one that can require therapy to get over, or may never be able to escape the guilt. And this is absolutely true. For some women. You will never convince me that this is true for ALL women who choose to get one

And one method you use to alleviate feelings of guilt for what the mind might see as an "evil" action is to un-person the victim. "Gay people aren't human". "Jews aren't human". Always step 1 to getting a society to be more comfortable with something that they might have a moral objection to is to un-person the victim. "It's not a developing human, it's just a collection of cells"

Gatordash would likely be furious reading this so I'll make a disclaimer:

I'm not saying it's productive to call the fetus a baby to the woman and pile on needless guilt onto a person who already might be feeling the most guilt they've ever felt in their life. I personally wouldn't do it, not in my job or my personal life. I'm saying that a pro-lifer who believes it is a murder, and believes if they could change the person's mind they prevented a murder, WOULD be willing to adopt that tactic. That's why they do it, regardless of how productive or messed up or whatever other people feel about that tactic

It is murder

We rationalize it because they are still in the womb or are an inconvenience to the mother who wants to keep partying and riding the cock carousel

If people are for it, fine, but this dancing around what an abortion constitutes is just word salad

If you support killing babies. Own it.

[unsunghero]

If we keep calling our political opponents baby killers and comparing pro-choice advocates to antisemites, then suburban moderates have to support us in the midterms :p

Yup, surefire way to lose the suburban moderate woman. Sad but true

[Whale biologist]

It is murder

We rationalize it because they are still in the womb or are an inconvenience to the mother who wants to keep partying and riding the cock carousel

If people are for it, fine, but this dancing around what an abortion constitutes is just word salad

If you support killing babies. Own it.

Law don't go that way, Trumpyboi. You suck!

[Thorgrimm]

Law don't go that way, Trumpyboi. You suck!

It's moving that way

Hence the freakout over Texas

[Jibartik]

What are the reasons that we want abortion so badly?

[Whale biologist]

It's moving that way

Hence the freakout over Texas

Not ruled on merit but I take your meaning that Libs are 'tarded. :)

[Thorgrimm]

Not ruled on merit but I take your meaning that Libs are 'tarded. :)

wPwU2i4qCIE

[Horza]

What are the reasons that we want abortion so badly?

We aren't all evangelicals like you, Jib.

[Thorgrimm]

We aren't all evangelicals like you, Jib.

You're such a coward

Not surprising

[Jibartik]

We aren't all evangelicals like you, Jib.

what reason though really? I dont think you even know?

[Horza]

Sorry the U.S. isn't a theocracy yet.

[Jibartik]

this has nothing to do with religion.

I want to know why you want abortion.

[Thorgrimm]

Sorry the U.S. isn't a theocracy yet.

Cowardly response from a coward

Not surprising

[Jibartik]

I think it’s just really hard to argue for a reason that a society should have abortion.

[Jibartik]

this is eugenics.

That has nothing to do with religion dude.

[nostalgiaquest]

So covid unemployment benefits for millions ran out on Monday? Which was Labor Day? A day to honor the American labor movement and the contributions that workers have made to society?

Lol Dayyyyyyyummm, I don't care who you are, that's straight up cold blooded.

[imperiouskitten]

https://i.imgur.com/ncFGQc8.png

[Gravydoo II]

The ordeal of the bitter water was a trial by ordeal administered to the wife whose husband suspected her of adultery but who had no witnesses to make a formal case (Numbers 5:11–31). The ordeal is further explained in the Talmud, in the seventh tractate of Nashim.


You christians literally wrote the book on abortion.

[starkind]

this is eugenics.

That has nothing to do with religion dude.

thats right Eugenics > religion as a state theocracy my dude :o

[Gravydoo II]

LOL its eugenics!!!

what test do they take before hand to get approval or not???

Cause without some kind of testing, something to compare against, its not really eugenics.. Whats the goal of the eugenicists?

[Jibartik]

So far none of you who are REALLY bent out of shape over this can give me a reason you think a society is better with abortion than without.

thats right Eugenics > religion as a state theocracy my dude

No its not, I like having you around.

[starkind]

So far none of you who are REALLY bent out of shape over this can give me a reason you think a society is better with abortion than without.



No its not, I like having you around.

me to thanks for your love and respect

i was being sarcastic for reals

anyone who's been alive for almost half a centuary knows that killing ppl because u simply dont like them or want them or they make ur nation unfashionable is kinda bad at least at least deep down, subconciously even if they dont want to admit it

i truly want no one to suffer tho and i believe mercy includes abortion or killing neccissarily in some cases due to limitations on our ability to care for invalids (invalid is an evil eugenics word yes, sorry).

also yes, i mostly enjoy being around a lot of the time like this morning typing into this glowing box

[Jibartik]

me to thanks for your love and respect

i was being sarcastic for reals

anyone who's been alive for almost half a centuary knows that killing ppl because u simply dont like them or want them or they make ur nation unfashionable is kinda bad at least at least deep down, subconciously even if they dont want to admit it

i truly want no one to suffer tho and i believe mercy includes abortion or killing neccissarily in some cases due to limitations on our ability to care for invalids (invalid is an evil eugenics word yes, sorry).

Religion: "you can not murder other people"

Progressives: God damn religious people stopping medical science.

:D

[starkind]

in a perfect world abortion aka homicide by your definition (murder sometimes for sure) wouldn't be merciful or neccissary sometimes

what perfekt world exists though and can you force it or that choice on peoeple without letting them come to it naturally? and on their own

it's like (similaire but obviously not identlcly the same) saying in a case of self defense (or the defense of others) u can't kill because we should all be pacifists

by abolitionist logic, no one should have guns and only the government should kill people

which is just as fucking creepy imo

at no point am i condoning these things, just objectively reflecting on them

the point at which you draw the line/neccessity is obviously a personal one I respect for everyone

[Jibartik]

Fun fact: not a single soul here has or will tell me why they think society is better with legal abortion for all, than without.

Because they really do not know. Or they know their reason is retarded.

[starkind]

Fun fact: not a single soul here has or will tell me why they think society is better with legal abortion for all, than without.

I just did, because I believe laws and government are bad especially when it comes down to the decision to kill others which we do all the time THROUGH the government corruptly and on a collectively oppressive basis .

how else can I explain it

it's OK that you8 feel the way you do, i'm not saying your wrong, I do not think you understand my perspective tho

nor do i demand that you do

i wish you did

in essense sometimes you are forcing a women to chose between a baby and her family or a baby and herself or a baby and her nation or a baby and her community when you take away that choice than the government doesn't step in what you are doing is turning that woman into a slave and enslaving that womens community and family, and sacrificing them for the sake of a baby, which should be an individual choice of the woman or the community and family

Not the goverment or someone elses feelings on murder somewhere else in the world or ten towns over

[Mesocyclone]

Nukes aren't real they do not exist. Trident Missile is real - nuclear warhead on its tip is not real.

[Mblake1981]

orcs on Freud couch

[starkind]

the us government nor do the people advocating for more laws or banning things respect the sanctity of life because they are more conserned about controlling others for the sake of moral supporiority rather than providing solutions to suffering and creating a more egalitarian society where individual choice autonomy and responsability are the norm, supportred, developed, or rewarded

[Jibartik]

the us government nor do the people advocating for more laws or banning things respect the sanctity of life because they are more conserned about controlling others for the sake of moral supporiority rather than providing solutions to suffering and creating a more egalitarian society where individual choice autonomy and responsability are the norm, supportred, developed, or rewarded

Well here I’ll allow this reason this is the most like strong reason to have abortion. It’s self-aware and understands the reasoning behind people wanting to have abortion…

Yea I’d say this is it!

[starkind]

I agree that having less poor people means there’s less suffering in the world but all that means is that I am hiding the suffering in a kill chamber and then assuming that the world is a better place.

If That’s what your argument then I veto it as a reason for society being better with kill chambers, even though it’s just babies they don’t really have an identity yet.

Lmao I just don’t get it I just don’t get it.

no one right now is forcing women to get pregnant or kill their babies

why make a law that says they can't make that decision if neccissary?

it just moves the kill chambers to the state and the prison system instead of the womb

i know this is hard to believe but we don't have an epidemic of abortions and eugenics

we will once the state collectively starts taking votes on who to kill so we can feed all the invalids we will create once we remove everyones autonomy and independence and opporess them with police regulations and bans and certificiates and liscences (oh wait we already have, especially economically and professionally, and creatively)

[Mesocyclone]

Read the Georgia Guidestones to learn why they want abortion legal. And why they want most of the population gay. And why they are developing new strains all the time.

[starkind]

thats the best argument i make so enjoy the rest of ur day and consider reflecting on how jesus christ would treat someone who aborted their child

[starkind]

Well here I’ll allow this reason this is the most like strong reason to have abortion. It’s self-aware and understands the reasoning behind people wanting to have abortion…

Yea I’d say this is it!

thanks, even if it's legal i want to be clear i'm still not really in favor of killing babies or getting pregnant without the intent to create life and support it fully both situations are failure states personally for me

people shouldnt be rewarded for killing eachother either

[Jibartik]

no one right now is forcing women to get pregnant or kill their babies

why make a law that says they can't make that decision if neccissary?

Nobody is forcing anyone to go into debt

yet that doesn't stop the same people who are pro abortion from wanting to get rid of student loans...

So lets get this straight, the same people that want to terminate their pregnancies are the ones that are afraid of getting one because they're in the middle of a 4+ year bender they took out 200k in loans to pay for and they want a job at the end of it not a liability.

This isnt about forced abortions, it's about abortions and easy solutions being worse for society than a few unwanted kids in foster care.

And horza/whale dont act like you care more about those kids than I do because your version of care is: Life is better if you are dead.

[Thorgrimm]

thats the best argument i make so enjoy the rest of ur day and consider reflecting on how jesus christ would treat someone who aborted their child

Matthew 18:6

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

[Jibartik]

keep in mind that best argument was

the us government nor do the people advocating for more laws or banning things respect the sanctity of life because they are more conserned about controlling others for the sake of moral supporiority rather than providing solutions to suffering and creating a more egalitarian society

What I am taking from this is that pro abortion folks want to advocate for their moral superiority rules because they actually argue that abortion is better than without.

It's a belief system based on killing people to make life better for those same people, because life would have been worse than being dead (for unwanted children)

It's the most insane religious cult in the world today.

By being self aware, I thought we all saw that it was a wolf being self aware that they want to control people's reproductive systems by convincing them to kill their babies the same way preditory loan companies convince those same people to take out more money in loans than anyone in their family has ever made in a life time.

[starkind]

Nobody is forcing anyone to go into debt

yet that doesn't stop the same people who are pro abortion from wanting to get rid of student loans...

So lets get this straight, the same people that want to terminate their pregnancies are the ones that are afraid of getting one because they're in the middle of a 4+ year bender they took out 200k in loans to pay for and they want a job at the end of it not a liability.

This isnt about forced abortions, it's about abortions and easy solutions being worse for society than a few unwanted kids in foster care.

And horza/whale dont act like you care more about those kids than I do because your version of care is: Life is better if you are dead.

You believe that the government knows best how to allocate life and wealth.

I don't.

Neither of us believe killing people or babies is morally superior.

I believe that the government is part of the system enforcing artificial scarcity and protecting the system of loans and debtors you speak of and is far less qualified to enforce our collective will. Which should be individual will>local >global will.

I don't believe rich and powerful collectives and institutions have the right even if they have the authority. It's clear abortion is just the tip of a social iceberg we've been neglecting and you feel the government can help address this.

The point at which we disagree is simply whose authority and whether the authority resting with the government is helpful or harmful.

I believe we both value individual autonomy.

So, we don't really disagree about abortion. We disagree about police and law and government.

I'm a bit callous, I do really care though, I also care about the less fortunate or disabled or those without privilege, power, money, freedom, or land and autonomy .

[Jibartik]

No i dont. I believe that people do.

There is so much like baggage added to my arguments with people about the Goberment.

In my opinoin the goberment is 100% a non factor.

It's pretty basic: If you put penis in vagina, chance maybe baby come out, if so life is dedicated to baby now not yourself. That's all I want, for the laws of nature to exist.

You're arguing that the goberment get involved and have its courts make a unilateral scientific decision on when consciousness is downloaded into a baby that cannot be challenged.

lol I live in a mad house.

[starkind]

No i dont. I believe that people do.

There is so much like baggage added to my arguments with people about the Goberment.

In my opinoin the goberment is 100% a non factor.

It's pretty basic: If you put penis in vagina, chance maybe baby come out, if so life is dedicated to baby now not yourself. That's all I want, for the laws of nature to exist.

You're arguing that the goberment get involved and have its courts make a unilateral scientific decision on when consciousness is downloaded into a baby that cannot be challenged.

lol I live in a mad house.

If you make babies. No one else is obligated to care for them. Even if they want to and often try to. That is our nature and the case government or not.

If people are killed because of economic stress or laws which create or enable dependence and inequality. The government doesn't care so long as it's or the control of those supporting said government isn't threatened. It's even more callous and stagnating than Odin's, Gia's, Terra's, mother or father natures rules.

We tried to codify the 40,000 commandments into ten in a piece of paper than we gave that paper the weight of state surveillance, swat, machine guns, bombs, drones and AI facial recognition and kangaroo courts.

I'm antigovernment. Not prochoice.

It's as simple as that.

I hope your conscience is carried out by the government. That'd be great. I do believe it is delusional to expect the government to fix this. Pro or against. I do believe that eugenics and killing already happens in Amazon's brand name already. So I do not respect these laws. Even if I respect the principles behind them.

[Jibartik]

But here we go again, that's straight up goberment/economic eugenics.

Im willing to deal with the stress that extra kids put on society. I dont think because population is an issue that we should instead add the unnecessary stress of determining who gets to push their ideas of who gets to live and who doesn't.

If the question was about how we could stop all cancer by genetically engineering kids then I would have some serious difficulty in saying no to that.

But if the question is people have it rough and some people think that they're better off not even existing, so let the goverment decide that it's ok to throw some kids into the trash can, then Im not in.

I think that's worse for society than a 1st world western one dealing with unwanted pregnancies.

[unsunghero]

Black women have been getting abortions at 4x the rate of white women for 20+ years

Makes the eugenics angle a little more twisted. Also makes pro-choicers seem a little more racist, at least to a pro-lifer, I would assume

Pro-choicer: “what the world needs is fewer black births”

Kidding

[starkind]

But here we go again, that's straight up goberment/economic eugenics.

Im willing to deal with the stress that extra kids put on society. I dont think because population is an issue that we should instead add the unnecessary stress of determining who gets to push their ideas of who gets to live and who doesn't.

If the question was about how we could stop all cancer by genetically engineering kids then I would have some serious difficulty in saying no to that.

But if the question is people have it rough and some people think that they're better off not even existing, so let the goverment decide that it's ok to throw some kids into the trash can, then Im not in.

I think that's worse for society than a 1st world western one dealing with unwanted pregnancies.
So, let me get this right.

My words, not exactly my beliefs, close enough though.

Capitalism and corporations are coercing women to kill or abandon their children out of fear or necessity.

And.

You believe that the government can help or save these children. And women. And that we are morally obligated to help them through the government.

I believe it failed in many cases, and only my own actions have thus far enabled my survival. I also believe it is morally superior to care for and support eachother. I don't believe that the government does this, or is effective at caring for people. I also believe that laws for and against abortion are both equally liable to kill people and cause further abandonment and neglect. That is how I feel and through the lense and anecdote of my life, know things are. What I personally know I or we cannot and can in reality control.

We should reform our society, culture, government, and economy before legislating on these moral issues. Our current culture and economic system is entirely untenable regardless of whether abortion is legal. More laws create more avenues for waste, oppression, and the invasion of privacy. Create more dependence. Create more taxation, police, and beuricracy. And support more abuses via capitalism and corporate institutions. Or more avenues of fraud through institutions.

[unsunghero]

Well, it’s a natural progression from a movement away from gender norms, such as women being encouraged to be child-raisers and homemakers

I’m not saying that I think women SHOULD exclusively be those things, but as society began to push women to be self-sufficient, independent and financially successful, having a kid while single would just get in the way of that

Shit, i remember not that long ago some actress or singer gave a speech when accepting an award for the pro-choice movement saying she wouldn’t have been able to be successful had she not gotten an abortion. Ooh conservatives really got pissed at that, calling her sociopathic

[Jibartik]

So, let me get this right.

Capitalism and corporations are coercing women to kill or abandon their children out of fear or necessity.

I have not done a study but I'm willing to bet abortion rates go up when it's legal than when it is not.

You believe that the government can help or save these children. And women. And that we are morally obligated to help them through the government.

No, I just believe that once a sperm goes into an egg, that there is nothing you can do besides directly destroying it or harming the mother until it is destroyed.

If you do literally anything but that, a person pops out. And destroying other people is wrong.

I believe it failed in many cases, and only my own actions have thus far enabled my survival. I also believe it is morally superior to care for and support eachother. I don't believe that the government does this, or is effective at caring for people. I also believe that laws for and against abortion are both equally liable to kill people and cause further abandonment and neglect. That is how I feel and through the lense and anecdote of my life know things are.

We should reform our society, culture, government, and economy before legislating on these moral issues.

Sure we can do all that with or without abortion, but on the subject of abortion alone, it is less moral than not having abortions, because the best argument for it is population control and that is simply not moral.

If it wasn't for over population we'd all be in a temple somewhere worshiping what someone told us because what's the difference.

[starkind]

Well, it’s a natural progression from a movement away from gender norms, such as women being encouraged to be child-raisers and homemakers

I’m not saying that I think women SHOULD exclusively be those things, but as society began to push women to be self-sufficient, independent and financially successful, having a kid while single would just get in the way of that

Shit, i remember not that long ago some actress or singer gave a speech when accepting an award for the pro-choice movement saying she wouldn’t have been able to be successful had she not gotten an abortion. Ooh conservatives really got pissed at that, calling her sociopathic

We are just collectively poorer and weaker now regardless of whether a woman is single or a stay at home wife or monogamous. Even nuclear Christian orthodox families have less wealth, and fail more often, even if they are more resilient to economic stress.

Food for thought.

[starkind]

I have not done a study but I'm willing to bet abortion rates go up when it's legal than when it is not.



No, I just believe that once a sperm goes into an egg, that there is nothing you can do besides directly destroying it or harming the mother until it is destroyed.

If you do literally anything but that, a person pops out. And destroying other people is wrong.



Sure we can do all that with or without abortion, but on the subject of abortion alone, it is less moral than not having abortions, because the best argument for it is population control and that is simply not moral.

If it wasn't for over population we'd all be in a temple somewhere worshiping what someone told us because what's the difference.
We could safely support a lot more people on this earth, however people are greedy and don't want to live that way.

I don't know what to do at that point I just shrug my shoulders after giving my opinion.

I would like for us to stop poisoning eachother. And for our species to have more respect for the world and universe to which it is a part of, and without which we wouldn't have the opportunity to reflect on any of ourselves, our universe, and what makes us. Which is truly who we are.

:shrugs:

[Jibartik]

We could safely support a lot more people on this earth, however people are greedy and don't want to live that way.

I don't know what to do at that point I just shrug my shoulders after giving my opinion.

I would like for us to stop poisoning eachother. And for our species to have more respect for the world and universe to which it is a part of, and without we we wouldn't have the opportunity to reflect on any of ourselves, our universe, and what makes us. Which is truly who we are.

Yeah I love this because that's exactly my point, it's an argument that comes from greed.

Greed that we know deep down we're the same, but instead we shovel it off and be like "other people cant take care of their kids and that's bad" but really it's "other people cant take care of their kids and it makes my life bad"

Personally, I think letting nature take its course letting humans build and fail as a society, and then rebuild a better one...

...is better than letting a broken society genetically engineer its kids to fit more efficiently into it's broken system.

But that's me! :o

[starkind]

Yeah I love this because that's exactly my point, it's an argument that comes from greed.

Greed that we know deep down we're the same, but instead we shovel it off and be like "other people cant take care of their kids and that's bad" but really it's "other people cant take care of their kids and it makes my life bad"

Personally, I think letting nature take its course letting humans buil and fail as a society, and then rebuilding a better one...

Is better than letting a broken society genetically engineer its kids to fit more efficiently into it's broken system.

But that's me! :o

Agreed

[Jibartik]

The prime directive.

Star trek was a conservative society.

:o

[starkind]

The prime directive.

Star trek was a conservative society.

:o

There really is not a great argument for it. That's why I will never argue that abortion is moral.

I did in the past.

And you are right. I wanted to do my best to argue in favor of less legislation. I feel like I did. Thank you for supporting your position. And yes, the absence of a law isn't necessarily more or less moral than the existence of one.

I prefer to do things honestly and in good faith.

[Horza]

Four pages just this morning of pro-choice is pro-eugenics and baby killer libs belong in prison? I guess Trump losing really broke Jib's heart.

[starkind]

Four pages just this morning of pro-choice is pro-eugenics and baby killer libs belong in prison? I guess Trump losing really broke Jib's heart.

Would it be better if the female in question could just voluntarily remand herself and her child into the custody of the state or institution of her choice without killing anyone?

Abortions are in a way many times a form of suicide from my perspective. A lot like refusing or being unable or unwilling to eat or sustain ourselves.

Is our country headed towards further malnutrition and even outright cannibalism and famine.

As much as I appluad individualism, I see everything collectively because in reality we share everything regardless of our desires and choices. We truly rely on eachother just as much as we rely on ourselves.

[Jibartik]

There really is not a great argument for it. That's why I will never argue that abortion is moral.

I did in the past.

And you are right. I wanted to do my best to argue in favor of less legislation. I feel like I did. Thank you for supporting your position. And yes, the absence of a law isn't necessarily more or less moral than the existence of one.

I prefer to do things honestly and in good faith.

as an aside, I wonder if startrek is actually hard conservatism.

Uniforms/well dressed.

Strict hierarchy.

Prime directive (super pro life).

Picard inherited a vineyard.

No movies and video games.

Im beginning to think it's a myth that this is a progressive utopia, and start believing it's a fascist one.

[Mblake1981]

Star trek was a conservative society.

GwDSz-j4AyQ

[starkind]

as an aside, I wonder if startrek is actually hard conservatism.

Uniforms/well dressed.

Strict hierarchy.

Prime directive (super pro life).

Picard inherited a vineyard.

No movies and video games.

Im beginning to think it's a myth that this is a progressive utopia, and start believing it's a fascist one.

Yes. It's sneaky.

[Jibartik]

It's like, you think it's just well organized communism at worst, but when you find out it's pro lifer old white dudes who inherit family money it's like haha whoa momma the clue's were right in our faces :D

Cant have an estate tax, if you get rid of taxes by eliminating physical dollars and making invested wealth the only economy!

[Horza]

Would it be better if the female in question could just voluntarily remand herself and her child into the custody of the state or institution of her choice without killing anyone?

Even for this forum with its many fascist sympathizers and Trumptards, this idea is dumb as hell.

[Gatordash]

Sure we can do all that with or without abortion, but on the subject of abortion alone, it is less moral than not having abortions, because the best argument for it is population control and that is simply not moral.

In a black and white world its simple to say its less moral to have abortions than not.

To argue against abortion is to argue against the mother's freedom of choice.

[starkind]

Picard is always shameful about his families estates and constantly justifying everything he has on the basis of merit.

I also believe he's not necessarily wrong.

It's extremely conservative.

There are also a ton of impoverished worlds which are either impoverished or neglected to maintain the legitimacy and authority of the federation. See the cardassian and federation demiliterized zone.

[Thorgrimm]

In a black and white world its simple to say its less moral to have abortions than not.

To argue against abortion is to argue against the mother's freedom of choice.

Choice to do what

[Jibartik]

They have replicator technology. The Picard series made zero sense in the ST universe. The one scene with the lady brow-beating Jean Luc about wealth.. she lives in a trailer in the future but cant ask the replicator for nicer things.

4LqQhx4Wvoc

[Gatordash]

Choice to do what

Freedom to get an abortion if she wants to.

[Thorgrimm]

Freedom to get an abortion if she wants to.

What's an abortion

[Gatordash]

What's an abortion

Dilation and Curettage.

[Jibartik]

what's that you kind of mumbled there

[Thorgrimm]

Dilation and Curettage.

You're completely lost in self delusion

[Jibartik]

It's not murder if it's called war!

[Gatordash]

It's not murder if it's called war!

We call it a DnC for short. Maybe abbreviations will help you guys. Not sure of a better way to describe an abortion than that.

[unsunghero]

I think it would be interesting (and slightly evil) to force the women to fill out a questionnaire that asks why are you getting this abortion before you are legally allowed to get one, and have options such as:

I was raped

I attempted to use contraceptives but they failed

I attempted to use morning after pill but it failed

I was irresponsible

Then to tally up the results, I’m guessing (just my cynical guess) it would look something like this:

I was raped - 20%

I attempted to use contraceptives but they failed - 40%

I attempted to use the morning after pill but it failed - 30%

I was irresponsible - 10%


And then I could create a sarcastic report saying “it appears we have a rape epidemic in our city. Also I am submitting a class action lawsuit against the makers of condoms and the morning after pill for false advertising their success rates”

[Gatordash]

I think it would be interesting (and slightly evil) to force the women to fill out a questionnaire that asks why are you getting this abortion before you are legally allowed to get one, and have options such as:

I was raped

I attempted to use contraceptives but they failed

I attempted to use morning after pill but it failed

I was irresponsible

Then to tally up the results, I’m guessing (just my cynical guess) it would look something like this:

I was raped - 20%

I attempted to use contraceptives but they failed - 40%

I attempted to use the morning after pill but it failed - 30%

I was irresponsible - 10%


And then I could create a sarcastic report saying “it appears we have a rape epidemic in our city. Also I am submitting a class action lawsuit against the makers of condoms and the morning after pill for false advertising their success rates”

I'm pretty sure you do.
Edit: Then you have like a 20 minute talk with a nurse about it, and then you have to sign more paperwork about you going over with the nurse about it.

[unsunghero]

I'm pretty sure you do.

Hmm interesting if so. Too bad the results are HIPAA, I’d like to see where the percentages fall

[Trexller]

Government Funded Abortions For ALL

with mandatory sterilization.

You want an abortion at any stage? Sure! :):)

we will also make sure you will not be back.

[Horza]

What's an abortion

Interesting debate tactic, Toxigen.

[Thorgrimm]

Interesting debate tactic, Toxigen.

You're obsessed with that guy

Get a room, Troll

We call it a DnC for short. Maybe abbreviations will help you guys. Not sure of a better way to describe an abortion than that.

You forgot the part where they drill a hole in the baby's head and suck the brains out

Then sell it's body parts on The Black Market

[Gatordash]

Hmm interesting if so. Too bad the results are HIPAA, I’d like to see where the percentages fall

I bet if you looked on NIH you could find something on it.

[unsunghero]

Government Funded Abortions For ALL

with mandatory sterilization.

You want an abortion at any stage? Sure! :):)

we will also make sure you will not be back.

Only in China and only if you are Muslim. But not for the abortion, just for being the wrong religion

Edit: I remember hearing there was an outcry for forced sterilization of that woman who drowned her 3 kids in a bathtub and then got pregnant again

Don’t think it went anywhere though…

[Jibartik]

Why cant we just have abortion for (life saving) health/rape and then move the eff on as a society.

[Ooloo]

Why cant we just have abortion for (life saving) health/rape and then move the eff on as a society.

Because I'm a lunatic feminist who hates the idea of marriage much less motherhood. I will be a barren cat lady in no time, but at least I can kill my stupid BABIES in the meantime

[Jibartik]

It's your body, and your choice to: tie your tubes, wear a diaphragm, take contraception, and to suck and fuck as many dicks as you want.

[Gatordash]

Why cant we just have abortion for (life saving) health/rape and then move the eff on as a society.

Because reality isn't that simple. Lets say Thorgrimm knocks up his cousin again and the fetus has a chromosomal disorder? What if Unsunghero keeps drinking while he's pregnant and now the fetus has some serious lifelong developmental disabilities? I bet they wish they could talk to a doctor and have the freedom to make a decision on what they think is best.

So perhaps its best to not create mandating laws and instead allow for the freedom of a mother and doctor to make a decision on what they think is best.

[Horza]

So perhaps its best to not create mandating laws and instead allow for the freedom of a mother and doctor to make a decision on what they think is best.

Freedom means effectively criminalizing half the population, war is peace, etc.

[Ooloo]

Because reality isn't that simple. Lets say Thorgrimm knocks up his cousin again and the fetus has a chromosomal disorder? What if Unsunghero keeps drinking while he's pregnant and now the fetus has some serious lifelong developmental disabilities? I bet they wish they could talk to a doctor and have the freedom to make a decision on what they think is best.

So perhaps its best to not create mandating laws and instead allow for the freedom of a mother and doctor to make a decision on what they think is best.

Because just like rape those are overwhelmingly rare scenarios and the vast majority of abortions are performed simply for the convenience of the mother. Like Jib said there can be exceptions I'm fine with, but doing away with about 90% of the dead babies in this world is overwhelmingly humane and in keeping with the sanctity of human life. Which is important.

And again I'm not a religious person at all, but you don't have to be. I'm a humanist, so it's hard to be okay with millions of needlessly dead human babies. I like to be consistent in my principles.

Also I don't think contraception failing is legitimate grounds for an abortion; you assume some amount of risk with any contraceptive, and a responsible person understands that. And that goes for men too; if you knock up your girlfriend I think you should stick around and be a father- you took that risk.

[Horza]

in keeping with the sanctity of human life.

this has nothing to do with religion.

:confused:

[unsunghero]

Because reality isn't that simple. Lets say Thorgrimm knocks up his cousin again and the fetus has a chromosomal disorder? What if Unsunghero keeps drinking while he's pregnant and now the fetus has some serious lifelong developmental disabilities? I bet they wish they could talk to a doctor and have the freedom to make a decision on what they think is best.

So perhaps its best to not create mandating laws and instead allow for the freedom of a mother and doctor to make a decision on what they think is best.

I have a cousin who has Down syndrome and had a co-worker who had FAS (fetal alcohol syndrome) who probably aren’t as happy to be alive as they should be

They don’t realize the bullet they dodged

[Gatordash]

Because just like rape those are overwhelmingly rare scenarios and the vast majority of abortions are performed simply for the convenience of the mother. Like Jib said there can be exceptions I'm fine with, but doing away with about 90% of the dead babies in this world is overwhelmingly humane and in keeping with the sanctity of human life. Which is important.

And again I'm not a religious person at all, but you don't have to be. I'm a humanist, so it's hard to be okay with millions of needlessly dead human babies. I like to be consistent in my principles.

You guys keep coming back to how rare this stuff is how black and white everyone's situation is and I genuinely think you are uniformed on basic stuff like the amount of alcoholics and drug addicts in this country and how complicated and difficult a pregnancy is. Its fun to argue this stuff online when you're bored at work but I bet if you came back from the simple world of rainbows and lollipops and spent a day downtown at a women's clinic you would change your mind. I get that its easy to take the 'moral high ground' though and judge all these women as murders.

[Trexller]

Population density is wayyy out of control.

Abortion is an awful yet necessary evil.

Most of you just can't see past your bleeding heart to understand that the earth can only support X number of people.

If some folks wanna kill their babies, I can't see an ecological or existential reason to oppose them, for a greater good.

Sorry that offends your sensibilities, but you can't see the entire world as one machine. I can.

It doesn't matter how the herd is culled, only that it is. turn your head, and enjoy your 20 acres of land before the gov't decides it has to build subsidized housing there, because you couldn't stomache the concept of abortion.
It's a concept that you will never see, never hear, never be affected by, until your daughter gets knocked up 3 months before med school.

The Unviable Birthed: Yeah it sucks, but humans have this tendency to take the worst of our genetic products, elevate them and drag them along with the rest of society, telling themselves they are doing a good thing, because they don't have the balls or the stomach to do or allow what needs to be done. No shit its unpleasant, it sucks, but its better for the evolution of the species that these traits are removed from the gene pool.

Nothing else in the natural world does this, animals kill their deformed offspring, and you know why.

[starkind]

Killing is in nature, and in ours.

Who gets to kill? The state, the family, the patriarch, the matriarch, the mother, how many we can afford to foster, imprison, or conscript, the rest, and the suicides and metaphysics and spirit of it all be damned if we disagree?

That's the essence of these arguments.

It's time for us to let it go. Let people be. Time to stop giving power to others. Time to stop trying to take it from others.

To me these choices are incredibly simple and personal and I hate how powerful lobbies and institutions have become.

So much so that I died for a better world and now we are beyond the looking glass and you get to read this post.

God bless. God speed. Much love. <3

[Jibartik]

:confused:

Oh so murder and theft is illegal because of religion too?

[starkind]

Most laws have a basis in religion. This is undeniable.

My religion is however very much unlike yours. So I find most laws repressive and frivolous.

[Jibartik]

Welll, if you guys were taking notes you'd know that religion was the word for goverment before there was no such word, so it's not like not wanting to kill babies or have people steeling from you is some hysterical prayer to a fantasy god.

It's just basic society 101

Religions (governments) who outlawed murder proliferated and spread culture around the globe.

ones that didnt died out like this

https://i.imgur.com/dxjl4w6.png

[starkind]

Welll, if you guys were taking notes you'd know that religion was the word for goverment before there was no such word, so it's not like not wanting to kill babies or have people steeling from you is some hysterical prayer to a fantasy god.

It's just basic society 101

Religions (governments) who outlawed murder proliferated and spread culture around the globe.

ones that didnt died out like this

https://i.imgur.com/dxjl4w6.png

Sorry I am a freak.

I'm mostly harmless and at the mercy of those weird religions tho. And maybe in some ways they benefit and some ways they hurt me or us.

I wish I could complete my transformation, and as far as I am concerned the government is just economically oppressive just like it is for the majority of my peers, regardless of what they believe or who they are.

So my opinion is that we need a new religion and a new government. Or at least revision to the existing ones. And that will probably happen one day.

In the meantime. Sue the ever loving shit out of eachother for what it's worth to you and stay distracted from providing for yourself and your loves.

[Jibartik]

Religion came first, then goverment came after.

New types of religions, like Kingdom's and then Governments evolved out of it where a smart man realized that he could be the god, instead of a legend.

The religions of the world wrote warnings like, "dont worship false gods" because goverment 1:1 religion, so creating one of those where you put the king, or a man in charge kept resulting in that king or man kililng everyone and the society collapsing.

So religion wrote colorful stories about that to try to get people who had no education to stay away from new false saviors that promise to save them from end times prophecies like global warming and fascist grandma's.

Because every time one of those new religions takes over everyone dies.

Religion = Government = Religion.

[Horza]

Oh so murder and theft is illegal because of religion too?

You'll get the Christian theocracy you want so badly soon enough :o

[Jibartik]

I know, I will have you to thank for it ironically :P

[Whale biologist]

Jib can I get the cliffs on today ITT?

[Jibartik]

I'm making the philosophical point that letting a society collapse and rebuild to become a better one is better for evolution/science/humanity, than genetically controlling the population because the current leading society is so unlivable that we should just engineer people to fit into it better.

And that, that has nothing to do with religion or any of that mumbo jumbo.

[Gatordash]

Jib can I get the cliffs on today ITT?

I fought off the religious heathens for women's rights.

[Gatordash]

...but sometimes I like those Texas lawmakers.

Ted Cruz to Millions Losing Unemployment Benefits: 'Um, Get a Job?' (https://thehill.com/homenews/571101-ted-cruz-to-millions-losing-unemployment-benefits-um-get-a-job)

[Jibartik]

...but sometimes I like those Texas lawmakers.

Ted Cruz to Millions Losing Unemployment Benefits: 'Um, Get a Job?' (https://thehill.com/homenews/571101-ted-cruz-to-millions-losing-unemployment-benefits-um-get-a-job)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/14/us/us-gun-sales-record/index.html

[Whale biologist]

...but sometimes I like those Texas lawmakers.

Ted Cruz to Millions Losing Unemployment Benefits: 'Um, Get a Job?' (https://thehill.com/homenews/571101-ted-cruz-to-millions-losing-unemployment-benefits-um-get-a-job)

No they suck. Didn't even arrest the runaways. :cool:

[Horza]

I'm making the philosophical point that letting a society collapse and rebuild to become a better one is better for evolution/science/humanity, than genetically controlling the population because the current leading society is so unlivable that we should just engineer people to fit into it better.

And that, that has nothing to do with religion or any of that mumbo jumbo.

Dumbass Christian accuses pro-choice of being pro-eugenics and then advocates engineering humanity by genetically controlling the population.

[Jibartik]

Dumbass Christian accuses pro-choice of being pro-eugenics and then advocates engineering humanity by genetically controlling the population.

you must not know how to read because your quoted text says the opposite of that.

I blaspheme every day.

[Gatordash]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/14/us/us-gun-sales-record/index.html

Guns R Gud. That way we can kill those murderous pro abortion women and prevent more deaths with our guns.

[Trexller]

Dumbass Christian accuses pro-choice of being pro-eugenics and then advocates engineering humanity by genetically controlling the population.

pro eugenics = pro human evolution

who wouldn't want to see humans evolved into non-corporeal awesomeness?

[unsunghero]

Guns R Gud. That way we can kill those murderous pro abortion women and prevent more deaths with our guns.

Claims to be a Republican

Anti 2nd A

Very pro-choice

Hmmm

How ya feel about free speech? Hate speech is not free speech and hate speech is what I say it is?

[Jibartik]

https://abc11.com/kings-mountain-high-school-north-carolina-quiz/10996907/

:D

[Whale biologist]

Speaking of Texas, this is the proper recourse (https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/07/politics/texas-greg-abbott-voting-bill/index.html) to 2020 shenanigans, not sacking the Capitol.

[Gatordash]

Claims to be a Republican

Anti 2nd A

Very pro-choice

Hmmm

How ya feel about free speech? Hate speech is not free speech and hate speech is what I say it is?

Hate speech is free speech but don't bitch when you get fired from your job for it.

[Jibartik]

not sacking the Capitol.


Copmpare that 1 time to idk, yesterday? https://www.the-sun.com/news/3605026/nypd-car-attacked-blm-protest-bronx/

[Horza]

Speaking of Texas, this is the proper recourse (https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/07/politics/texas-greg-abbott-voting-bill/index.html) to 2020 shenanigans, not sacking the Capitol.

If you can't convince people to vote for you based on policy, just don't let them vote at all.

[Jibartik]

libs: :(

texas: dont mess w/ texas :)

[Baler]

Hate speech is free speech but don't bitch when you get fired from your job for it.

real

And to those who are grossly upset by hate speech. The second you start restricting what is not freedom of speech is the second you no longer have freedom of speech.

[unsunghero]

Hate speech is free speech but don't bitch when you get fired from your job for it.

I don’t wanna doxx anyone but is this you?

I think I cracked the case, boys!

[Jibartik]

"If Josh is trying to become a drug dealer, he is going to need some supplies like glassware to make his meth. Which of the four factors of production would glassware be?" The test also quizzes students about "starting an assassination business that specializes in murdering rednecks with minivans."

[Baler]

"If Josh is trying to become a drug dealer, he is going to need some supplies like glassware to make his meth. Which of the four factors of production would glassware be?" The test also quizzes students about "starting an assassination business that specializes in murdering rednecks with minivans."

How did 'drug dealer' turn into drug manufacturer.... Thems different charges yo

[Danth]

Hate speech is free speech but don't bitch when you get fired from your job for it.

Yup, he's a communist, just doesn't know it yet. That's the commie line--you're free to do what you want, just with "consequences." Nobody stopped Comrade Bob from talking, just we threw him in the gulag because actions have consequences and he should've thought before opening his mouth!

To hell with that. Rights are no rights at all if they cannot be utilized without ruining a person's life. Anyone siding with that "actions have consequences" crap is taking the side of oppression and authoritarianism. I spit on it.

Danth

[Horza]

Huh? It was passed and signed by representatives elected by the voters of Texas. That makes it tautologically democratic.

What's more democratic than trying to prevent as many minorities from voting as possible?

[Whale biologist]

Yup, he's a communist, just doesn't know it yet. That's the commie line--you're free to do what you want, just with "consequences." Nobody stopped Comrade Bob from talking, just we threw him in the gulag because actions have consequences and he should've thought before opening his mouth!

To hell with that. Rights are no rights at all if they cannot be utilized without ruining a person's life. Anyone siding with that "actions have consequences" crap is taking the side of oppression and authoritarianism. I spit on it.

Danth

What if it's a private employer? There's no right to a specific job.

[Jibartik]

The freedom to face consequences crowd is pretty loud until they become pregnant.

[Danth]

What if it's a private employer? There's no right to a specific job.

Then said employer can logically also fire you for being black, or being gay, or for whatever reason they want. Otherwise, if we hold freedom and rights dear, we must protect those rights from being squashed by any means--whether directly by the government, or indirectly by using private corporations as an end-around for those pesky constitutional issues. Some nations do actually protect speech in that manner.


Danth

[unsunghero]

The freedom to face consequences crowd is pretty loud until they become pregnant.

[Jibartik]

Then said employer can logically also fire you for being black, or being gay, or for whatever reason they want. Otherwise, if we hold freedom and rights dear, we must protect those rights from being squashed by any means--whether directly by the government, or indirectly by using private corporations as an end-around for those pesky constitutional issues. Some nations do actually protect speech in that manner.


Danth

https://i.imgur.com/oHWOeef.png