ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Sirken]

*****Game of Thrones Spoilers inside. Do NOT Read unless you have read all 5 books, or do not care about surprises.*****



























so been thinking lots of things, looking for others' opinions as well.














Azor Azai = Jon? he'll be reborn by Melisandre, and as such able to battle with the Boltons, now free of his oath.

Ramsays letter to Jon is clearly BS. and most probably sent by Mance Rayder.

How about those meat pies that Lord Manderly served to the Freys ;)

Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Snow (which is why Ned must lie to even Robert when asked and go with the Wylla story) Jon born in 283AL, Lyanna dies in 283AL. however Ashera Dayne and Howland Reed must know the truth. Ashera told Ned to go to the Tower of Joy. and we know Howland Reed was there as well. Ashera "kills" herself so that the baby can both go with Ned, and also, more importantly, Ashera will be said to be the mother so that if Jon has Targaryen features, they can be excused as Dayne features. But Jon looks a lot like Arya, and Arya looks a lot like Lyanna.... and of course.. "Promise me.. Ned.."

Septa Lemore = (i think) Ashera Dayne. which would make a lot more sense if YoungGriff/Aegon was actually her kid, that was secretly swapped with Elia Martells baby (assuming her baby was stillborn)

Lightbringer = the men of the nights watch (or Dawn?)

Strong Robert = Gregor with Robb Starks head (Stark = Strong in German)

jaqen h'ghar = the alchemist (kills pate) = Pate. but WHY does Jaqen H'Ghar want to be in oldtown? Sams Horn?

i was told Tyrion could be a Targaryen, need more info please. (i dont think this is a thing)

Brienne screamed a word.. that word was clearly "sword". which means when she lured Jaime to see the hound, that was probably garbage, and Brienne is probably taking him to see Lady Stoneheart.

Hound is the grave digger on that isle Brienne goes to. he doesnt say the hound is dead, he says the hound is "at rest". he claims he buried the armor and used the helm to mark the grave. the helm is stolen and the wearer reeks havoc, which is then blamed on the hound.

Bloodraven = Brynden Rivers

Bran will never leave that cave. ever. (Jojen needs a fucking blanket) (update: poor jojen)

dragon riders should be, Dany, Aegon, and Jon, as they would all be Targaryens

Rickon is probably in Skagos, we know Bran went worth, so it makes sense Rickon would go the other way.

there MUST ALWAYS be a stark in winterfell. maybe ghosts in winterfell. ie: i think one of the ghosts talks to Theon (or this could be bran using trees?)

Balon Greyjoy i think was murdered by a faceless man, who was probably hired by Euron when he was sailing out east (near Bravos, or Asshai) (maybe Euron also hired them to get him the ice horn so that Euron has both?)

Varys. we know by what he says to Kevan that Varys is going to support Aegons claim. however, we do not know if Aegon is actually a Targaryen, or if the babe was swapped with Ashera Daynes babe or Illyrio's son. i lean towards Aegon being a blackfyre, Illyrio's son by Serra, and Varys' nephew.

and i know lots of theories exist that say Ashera is Jons mother. but imo, thats garbage, as i said earlier, R+L=Jon Snow.

should stannis die, maybe Gendry becomes Lord of the Baratheon Family? (Stannis will be the 1000th commander of the nights watch)

Knight of the Laughing Tree? maybe Lyanna? or Authur Dayne? or Howland Reed? Meera was surprised Bran hadnt heard the story, so most likely it was a stark. (cant be Lyanna due to that booming voice)

Where the fuck is Howland Reed?

Coldhands = not the old night king, not benjen stark. who else is missing?

and then that brings us to Baelish. personally, i wouldnt be surprised if Baelish wins the whole game. Robyn Arryn will die soon. the only other Arryn (Harrold Hardyng) will be married to sansa to lock down Winterfell and the North as well as the Vale of Arryn and Eyrie. not sure how he plans to take the south, unless Jofferys wedding was not the only plans made by The queen of thorns and Baelish. maybe her family rules the south, while baelish rules the north.... at least until the dragons show up anyway. (nevermind, im convinced that Sansa will bring about the end of Baelish)




enjoy!

feel free to agree, disagree, flame, or add your own thoughts ideas ;)

[Rain1]

I'll respond with what I think (it seems we generally agree on most plots Sirken)

I'm not sold on that Jon = Azor Azai, but I feel strongly that Jon is not dead. Either he survives the stabbings (somehow) or he is reborn through the powers of Melisandre , or she arrives in time to heal him. One of the three.

Fuck Ramsay, he is a bastard himself. But he has proven to be a liar/deceiver, so the letter is most likely bogus.

R+L= Jon I agree with. Lots of evidence throughout the books (like you listed), plus the Ned "flashbacks/nightmares" whatever you want to call them in book 1. It was his beloved sister after all. He is always hearing the screams/living with his secret.
Dunno what I think of Septa Lemore...but seems a plausible situation.

Lightbringer(s) = men of Night's Watch (agree)

Strong Robert = Gregor. Yes, reanimated through twisted powers. 7 ft tall, broad as an ox, etc. It's his dead body, just concealed behind armor I think. (agree)

Jaqen H'ghar = I actually have no real conspiracy theories on this...he is either there of his own free will (doing who knows what, just Faceless Man business?), or he has a mission for the free cities (throw the realm into chaos?). I'm not sure.

Tyrion is a Lion Lannister I think. (Tywin said he killed his wife during childbirth due to his mutant form). However, I really love Tyrion’s plot line, not just because he murder’s Tywin! I think he will be the bridge that secures Lannister to Targaryn to Stark.

Brienne is assuredly taking him to Cat, aka Lady Stoneheart. I know she has a crush on Jaime, but her ideals of duty are greater than her infatuation.

Bloodraven = Brynden Rivers (agree)

Bran will never leave that cave. I agree. He is paralyzed from the waist down, and his predecessor in the job was bound to the throne, unable to move. It would be a perfect fit for one such as him, given his seer powers as well.

Dragons riders should be Daenarys/Aegon/Jon = (agreed)

Rickon I think will be in Winterfell…who else could be? Bran will be bound north of Winterfell in that cave, holding back evil magic’s, and that only leaves Rickon.

It would not surprise me if Balon died at the hands of a faceless man. Euron is reported in the books to be strange, and have many connections throughout the other lands, such as Braavos and the other Far East Cities.

Varys is my favorite character, because I feel like he knows what Baelish aspires to know, and I hate Baelish. We shall see.

Knight of the Laughing Tree = Lyanna to me. She looks like Arya, a tomboy who has already defeated boys older than her. Not to mention, Lyanna (referred to as the “she-wolf”) only did this when the antagonists were braggadocio’s, picking on Howland Reed. She saved him, and a fighter entered the ranks days later, being slight of stature, wearing mis-matched armor, and wearing a laughing Heart Tree (the heart tree being the sign of the north gods)…

Meh, Coldhands might be Benjen, which would explain why he protected/guided the Stark children.

Fuck Baelish

As for the future? I think the Targaryen’s will regain control, and team with Melisandre’s Red God to purify/destroy the far north with its undead. It is George R.R. Martin though, so it would not surprise me if everyone died…

[Sirken]

i like.


Azor Azai as jon is surely a stretch, but not impossible? He’s not technically dead. We know he warg’d into Ghost (his wolf) because of the prologue. We HOPE Melisandre can resurrect the same way Thoros did for Beric and Cat.

Gregor = Frankenstein

Jaqen = I feel his story is somehow important.

Any chance Syrio was a faceless man? I have a rule that says a person is not dead until I see a body. And I never saw Syrio’s body.

Bran = “you will never walk again Bran, but you will fly” simply ravens?

Rickon = We know Davos was sent by Manderly to get Rickon. And we know Rickon is not currently in Winterfell, because the Boltons, the freys, the Manderly’s, or Theon would have seen him. There must ALWAYS be a stark in winterfell. Look to the crypts.

Balon = not to mention Euron shows up literally out of no where just days after Balon dies, after being in exile for what, 9 years?

Knight of the Laughing Tree = I LOVE your theory on Lyanna here.

Baelish = no sir, Baelish fucks you

I agree the targaryens’ will indeed end up back in power, if for no other reason than history tends to repeat itself

Red Priests = between Melisandre, Thoros, and Victarions red priest, I think Melisandre is the weakest in pure skill ( I understand shes stronger at the wall than normal)

---------- - ---------------------- --------------------- -------------

also, heres a crackpot idea..

2 horns.

one (Euron's) controls dragons (fire)
one (Sam's) wakes giants and can bring down the wall (ice)

could these two horns actually play the song "A Song of Ice and Fire"

[EQtrader]

not sure I understood one sentence in this thread

[Sirken]

He's basically making this shit up as he goes.
if you are referring to GRRM, i completely agree with you. i think he's starting to lose his mind.

not sure I understood one sentence in this thread
then read the books ;)

[EQtrader]

still dont understand anything in this post and didnt read, but Ill give it a A+ for well thought up and design and layout and post has great substance whatever its about.

[Sirken]

not sure I understood one sentence in this thread

still dont understand anything in this post and didnt read, but Ill give it a A+ for well thought up and design and layout and post has great substance whatever its about.

all you need to know is that George RR Martin is an asshole.

[Hagglebaron]

Why did that fat fuck extend the planned 3 novels to 7. By book 5 he's real just dicking around, introducing a bunch of characters and plots no one gives two shits about. Where the hell are the others, and why is Dany still being a pussy taking her sweet time over in essos.

[Hagglebaron]

i believe he was kicked in the head by a horse? by the end of book 5, Dany has just ridden Drogon to the dothraki sea, where she comes across a khalasar(sp?). the khal was one of drogo's blood riders.

new chars.. you dont like Aegon and Jon Connington? :P

Haha well Aegon is an enjoyable Pov character, and Jon as well to a lesser extent imo. I just really want to see the second war for the dawn :p, and the lands of always winter, the prologue thingy from A Game of Thrones was what got me hooked. I love the others and the history surrounding them, what little we have gotten and see of them anyways.

I used to be pumped to see Dany fulfill her potential and storm westeros with her dragons but after 4 books of her doing fuck all, I've ceased to care.

[Sirken]

i know the feeling with Dany.

GRRM has at least said there will not be any new PoV characters in book 6. so what we've seen is what we get. a big entitled "Winds of Winter" should at least scratch your itch for more stuff north of the wall.

hes released a few chapters, a theon, a tyrion, and a victarion (forgive the spelling on those last two names)


but honestly, i do not feel like hes even trying to wrap things up. which worries me into thinking we might get a really really shitty quick ending as he tries to put a pretty pink bow on it.

[Kraftwerk]

So I'm only like 1/3rd of the way into Storm of Swords and this shit is tight. Just burning through them now.

Holy shit does Jon Snow love to fuck Ygritte.

[Sirken]

SoS = Book 3?

that is by far my favorite book. its like 500pages of people walking around, and then all of a sudden.. shit gets real in a hurry.

you sir are in for a fun ride!

[Kraftwerk]

SoS = Book 3?

that is by far my favorite book. its like 500pages of people walking around, and then all of a sudden.. shit gets real in a hurry.

you sir are in for a fun ride!

Yea book 3, Dany just went ape on the slavers in Astapori and I keep hearing about the Red Wedding but know nothing about it other than it being a huge event in Book 3.

[Rogean]

You're telling me that by Book 5 Dany (Who I assume you're talking about Daenerys Targaryen?) hasn't even made it to Westeros yet?

[Sirken]

You're telling me that by Book 5 Dany (Who I assume you're talking about Daenerys Targaryen?) hasn't even made it to Westeros yet?

That is Correct

Shes actually farther away from westeros.

[Rogean]

Why don't her Dragons just fly her there by that point, jesus.

[Sirken]

Why don't her Dragons just fly her there by that point, jesus.

Heh. That's a long story. Do u want spoiler info?

[SamwiseBanned]

is reading this series a prereq to becoming a guide among men? if so ill order on amazon. Remrok awaits your summons.

http://i.imgur.com/OeKpk.jpg

any of these guys you Rogean? This was round two of guiding live. I should have been level 52 but they messed up. got fixed later.

http://i.imgur.com/1XoN8.jpg

[Sirken]

is reading this series a prereq to becoming a guide among men? if so ill order on amazon. Remrok awaits your summons.

its more for people that hate themselves i think.

[Sirken]

Yea book 3, Dany just went ape on the slavers in Astapori and I keep hearing about the Red Wedding but know nothing about it other than it being a huge event in Book 3.

u get to that red wedding yet?

[Kraftwerk]

u get to that red wedding yet?

Work has been busy this week, I just finished the chapter where The hound snatched up Arya and Robb is moving towards the Twins for Edmure's wedding to a Frey. Also Jon just left Ygritte. Beric is pretty cool too and Thoros.

[Kraftwerk]

Man, the Red Wedding sucks. Fucking Freys. Although I didn't like that Catelyn butchered Jingebell, what did he fucking do to her.

[Sirken]

Man, the Red Wedding sucks. Fucking Freys. Although I didn't like that Catelyn butchered Jingebell, what did he fucking do to her.

cat lost her shit, jingle was wrong place wrong time.

funny thing is, the ride that is book 3 has just begun. was by far my favorite, write down to the last word of the epilogue.

and yes, fucking freys.


when you tell a non reader that you hate the freys moer than joff, expect fun reactions

[Kraftwerk]

See, I more or less hate Catelyn through this so far. She is such a bitch and knows nothing. But the tragedy of the whole thing is she is doing it because she thinks only Robb and Sansa are left, but the other three kids are still alive. Then i start to feel bad for her.

It does just keep getting better and better as everything goes on, so good so far.

[Kraftwerk]

Having real problems putting this book down. Oberyn just offered to be Tyrion's champion, Arya and The Hound are rolling out like some buddy flick, and Barristan just showed himself to Dani. It's so good.

[Sirken]

Having real problems putting this book down. Oberyn just offered to be Tyrion's champion, Arya and The Hound are rolling out like some buddy flick, and Barristan just showed himself to Dani. It's so good.

and the plot thickens.

before i say anything, cuz i may be mixing stuff up with book 4... what are Sam and John doing? they at the wall? north of the wall? south of the wall? east or west of the wall? where are they at?

Oberyn, The Red Viper. fucking love that dirty guy

[Kraftwerk]

So I finished Book 3 and getting ready to start Book 4. John just got voted Lord Commander after Stannis broke up the wildlings and Mance. Sam orchestrated the vote for John. Arya is heading to Braavos, Tyrion killed his pops, and Littlefinger killed Lysa. I loved Book 3, my favorite by far so far. These are my top five chars:

1) Davos - I like his honesty it's really refreshing
2) Arya - Pretty self explanatory
3) Barristan Selmy - Honest and old school
4) Jaime - Really liking new Jaime post hand removal, he is more grounded but still has ego
5) Oberyn - Honorable mention for a character I wish hadn't died so quick :(

I don't really hate any character besides the Freys those fuckers and Cat since she is an idiot. Littlefinger saying Cersei thinks she is a player but she is actually just a piece to Sansa made me realize he is right and she is just sad.

[Sirken]

my top 5,

1)Baelish
2)Tyrion
3)Arya
4)Tywin
5)Jaqan H'Gar (spelling?)

if i had a 6 and 7, theyd be Davos and Jaime. and i 100% agree with your assessment of Jaime. he finally got a taste of what RL is like for everyone else.

4 and 5 are a pain in the ass, because for the most part they happen at the same time chronologically.

i hate the freys, i hated Joffrey, i hate Cersei, i REALLY dont trust Varys, have u met Qyburn? i dont trust him either.

THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A STARK IN WINTERFELL!

[Kraftwerk]

See I don't know how to feel about Baelish. He is obviously playing the game like a pro, but he's just so shifty I don't like it. Now I'm only just starting Book 4 so I don't know everything yet, but this whole I love you Sansa cause I loved your mom bit isn't sitting well with me.

And yea, Varys is so fucking sneaky no clue what to expect out of him. Qyburn has been in book, but not too much. He fixed Jaime's arm thats about it so far.

[Sirken]

See I don't know how to feel about Baelish. He is obviously playing the game like a pro, but he's just so shifty I don't like it. Now I'm only just starting Book 4 so I don't know everything yet, but this whole I love you Sansa cause I loved your mom bit isn't sitting well with me.

And yea, Varys is so fucking sneaky no clue what to expect out of him. Qyburn has been in book, but not too much. He fixed Jaime's arm thats about it so far.

you'll get more Baelish in book 4.

i love how he manipulates others. i also really love how he has so much power, but no actual army, or skill at arms. ;)

[Kraftwerk]

Little bit into Book 4, the Kingsmoot should be interesting. Can't wait to see Tyrion pop up. More interested in the wall now. Don't have ton of time so reading it as I can. Not like book 3 where i couldn't put it down.

[Nordenwatch]

I'm super pissed that theres two left and GRRM will probably die before he releases them both... Its going to be such a piss off and I know its coming

[Nordenwatch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ZeaS_QJ8w brilliant song about GoT

[Grimmly Fireforge]

In case anyone didn't catch it check out this thread I made in server chat, I noticed homage to ASOIAF while in the Bard guild in Qeynos the other day.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86429

[Sirken]

oh snap. i never noticed that. A+ Job Verant

[Sirken]

my lil brother just started book 5. hes the type of person that is going to be very pissed off to learn about Aegon.


still want more thoughts on who or what Jaqan H'gar (spelling) is after. now disguised as Pate in Oldtown

[India]

Just finished book 4,,,, which is why I skipped to the end of this thread instead of reading it!! So far there have been SO many surprises!!

Starting book 5 this weekend.

[Sirken]

book 5, people either really like it, or really dis like it. no middle ground on that one. i was a fan personally. but it took a while for it to grow on me ;)

[Kraftwerk]

I just finished book 4 Feast of Crows. I actually liked it a lot, especially Aryas stuff and Victarion. Looking forward to Book 5.

[Sirken]

keep me posted my good man!

i really grew to loove victarion over 4 and 5

[Eccezan]

2/3rds the way through book 3 and just passed the red wedding. My mind is still blown.

[Sirken]

2/3rds the way through book 3 and just passed the red wedding. My mind is still blown.

book 3 = my favorite

[Kraftwerk]

book 3 = my favorite

It is pretty freaking amazing. When you think the Red Wedding is like, a holy shit moment, then bam a ton more happens and upends everything.

[Dalven]

The Red Wedding blew my mind, I remember having to read it twice to make sure he had just turned the plot on its head.

Anyways:

Azor Azai = Jon? he'll be reborn by Melisandre, and as such able to battle with the Boltons.

I'd agree, there's no way he's dead and there's something funny about those smoking wounds. There's something really fishy about the letter, Jon's reaction and the murder.

How about those meat pies that Lord Manderly served to the Freys


I /cheered.

Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Snow (which is why Ned must lie to even Robert when asked and go with the Wylla story) Jon born in 283AL, Lyanna dies in 283AL. however Ashera Dayne and Howland Reed must know the truth. Ashera told Ned to go to the Tower of Joy. and i believe Howland Reed was there as well. Ashera "kills" herself so that the baby can both go with Ned, and also, more importantly, Ashera will be said to be the mother so that if Jon has Targaryen features, they can be excused as Dayne features. But Jon looks a lot like Arya, and Arya looks a lot like Lyanna.... and of course.. "Promise me.. Ned.."

I'm convinced by this. Like you say there is so much in book 1 on Ned's promise to Lyanna and then later on Rhaegar's obsession with the three headed dragon prophecy, references to Elia being too weak to bear more than two children, the stories about naming Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty at Harrenhal. Real question is who else knows; Howland Reed, Benjen Stark?

Septa Lemore = (i think) Ashera Dayne. which would make a lot more sense if YoungGriff/Aegon was actually her kid, that was secretly swapped with Elia Martells baby (assuming her baby was stillborn)

I'm pretty sure Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne, there has been too much sudden development of the historical Ashara Dayne character in this book for it to be irrelevant. e.g Barriston's revelation in his PoV that he was in love with her, his thoughts about a Stark dishonouring her and the tourney at Harrenhall (I may be misremembering the details but I'm sure it's Brandon he refers to).

Strong Robert = Gregor

jaqen h'ghar = the alchemist (kills pate) = Pate. but WHY does Jaqen H'Ghar want to be in oldtown?

Hound is either the elder brother / grave digger, or, that person knows where the hound is hiding. he doesnt say the hound is dead, he says the hound is "at rest". he claims he buried the armor and used the helm to mark the grave. the helm is stolen and the wearer reeks havoc, which is then blamed on the hound.

Bloodraven = Brynden Rivers

Bran will never leave that cave. ever.

Agree with all of these - the hound is almost certainly the gravedigger. The question is whether or not he will come out of retirement to have a go at Ser "Robert Strong" on the Faith's behalf. Although that may be somewhat predictable for ASOIAF.

i was told Tyrion could be a Targaryen, need more info please

I like the idea of this, but is generally thoroughly rejected by those on the Westeros message boards (although if I remember correctly they rejected the idea of Aegon reappearing). The idea is based on some of the mystery of Tywin leaving King's Landing during his first stint as Hand to Aerys - some believe that this was because Aerys raped Johanna Lannister and Tyrion is the result of the rape. Tywin would keep this a secret as it is made repeatedly clear throughout the books that his wife was his world and he wouldn't want to dishonour her, or the Lannister name. This was speculation up until ADWD although I think, again in Barriston's PoV, there is another mention of Tywin's mysterious end to his time as Aerys' hand. Basically there are some hints in his description and his deformity; some of his hair is described as being so blonde it is almost white. His deformity may be a result of defective Targaryen incest genes, although there isn't precedent showing for deformity in Targaryen's, just madness. Tyrion also dreams of dragons and is fascinated with them. Its a possibility, but by no means a certainty.

Varys. we know by what he says to Kevan that Varys is going to support Aegons claim. however, we do not know if Aegon is actually a Targaryen, or if the babe was swapped with Ashera Daynes babe.

Another theory is that Aegon is actually a Blackfyre from the female line - Barriston extinguished the male line on the Stepstones in his youth (I have seen suggestions that one of Illyrio's wives is actually a Blackfyre and Aegon is his son and hence his and Varys' interest in putting him on the throne). Even if the thing about Aegon being Illyrio's son is a bit crackpot I'm pretty convinced he is a Blackfyre rather than a Targaryen and is thus the "mummers dragon" that Dany is warned about in the House of the Undying. The focus on Blackfyre rebellions in the Dunk and Egg short stories must have some relevance as well.

All I've got for now!

[Sirken]

The Red Wedding blew my mind, I remember having to read it twice to make sure he had just turned the plot on its head.
Anyways:
I'd agree, there's no way he's dead and there's something funny about those smoking wounds. There's something really fishy about the letter, Jon's reaction and the murder.
Also the prologue of 5, its about that wildling that can do it too, six skins or something like that. He died, yet was able to warg into one of his animals to escape death. I believe this was foreshadowing that another character would do the same thing (ie: Jon). Melisandre knows this is going to happen to Jon as she mentions hes surrounded by knives in the dark, or in the shadows, and then also tells him to keep Ghost close. As far as the smoking wounds, I think that’s because of how cold it is. Blood is warm enough for steam. But fun fact, Azor Azai is born amongst salt and smoke. Jon would be reborn as Azor Azai, I just havent worked in the salt. But I think light bringer is the nights watch, and I think the nights watch vows changed at somepoint. The Vows sam says to open the door under the wall are not the same vows they say to join the nights watch. Sounds like junk was added as its not required to open the magic door.

I /cheered.
A+ job Lord Manderly

I'm convinced by this. Like you say there is so much in book 1 on Ned's promise to Lyanna and then later on Rhaegar's obsession with the three headed dragon prophecy, references to Elia being too weak to bear more than two children, the stories about naming Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty at Harrenhal. Real question is who else knows; Howland Reed, Benjen Stark?
Benjen I believe was already at the wall, so he wouldn’t know. Ashera Dayne told Ned (and 5 or 6 of Ned’s men) to go to the tower of joy to find Lyanna. Then Ashera Dayne “kills herself” shortly after. As far as Neds people, all of them are killed except Ned and Howland Reed. Making Ashera, Ned, and Howland the only 3 living people to know what happened at the tower of joy.

I'm pretty sure Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne, there has been too much sudden development of the historical Ashara Dayne character in this book for it to be irrelevant. e.g Barriston's revelation in his PoV that he was in love with her, his thoughts about a Stark dishonouring her and the tourney at Harrenhall (I may be misremembering the details but I'm sure it's Brandon he refers to).
Indeed, my thoughts exactly. Hopefully Barriston and her will cross paths; that would be the fastest way to confirm she is in fact Ashera Dayne. Did the starks really dishonor her? If I remember correct, she was infatuated with Ned Stark, and Ned with her. But Ned was bound by duty to marry Cat after his brother died. What did Ashera do at the tourney? Assuming this was the tourney that Rhaegar won and named Lyanna the queen of beauty as opposed to his Martell wife. I don’t recall Ashera being dishonored.

Agree with all of these - the hound is almost certainly the gravedigger. The question is whether or not he will come out of retirement to have a go at Ser "Robert Strong" on the Faith's behalf. Although that may be somewhat predictable for ASOIAF.
I’m pretty certain Sandor and Gregor were put on this earth to fight each other at some point. The books have indirectly suggested as much imo. If they fight over Cersei, that I don’t know.




I like the idea of this, but is generally thoroughly rejected by those on the Westeros message boards (although if I remember correctly they rejected the idea of Aegon reappearing). The idea is based on some of the mystery of Tywin leaving King's Landing during his first stint as Hand to Aerys - some believe that this was because Aerys raped Johanna Lannister and Tyrion is the result of the rape. Tywin would keep this a secret as it is made repeatedly clear throughout the books that his wife was his world and he wouldn't want to dishonour her, or the Lannister name. This was speculation up until ADWD although I think, again in Barriston's PoV, there is another mention of Tywin's mysterious end to his time as Aerys' hand. Basically there are some hints in his description and his deformity; some of his hair is described as being so blonde it is almost white. His deformity may be a result of defective Targaryen incest genes, although there isn't precedent showing for deformity in Targaryen's, just madness. Tyrion also dreams of dragons and is fascinated with them. Its a possibility, but by no means a certainty.
Thanks for the info, A+. I know it kinda seems like a reach or a conspiracy theory, but its still definitely possible ;)

Another theory is that Aegon is actually a Blackfyre from the female line - Barriston extinguished the male line on the Stepstones in his youth (I have seen suggestions that one of Illyrio's wives is actually a Blackfyre and Aegon is his son and hence his and Varys' interest in putting him on the throne). Even if the thing about Aegon being Illyrio's son is a bit crackpot I'm pretty convinced he is a Blackfyre rather than a Targaryen and is thus the "mummers dragon" that Dany is warned about in the House of the Undying. The focus on Blackfyre rebellions in the Dunk and Egg short stories must have some relevance as well.

You just blew my mind. I have no idea why Varys apparently wants the Targaryens in power. Definitely going to put in more time looking up the details surrounding the mummers dragon, one of the 3 things that will betray Dany. I never read the dunk and egg stories, but my buddy has and owns the stories. Theres definitely something sketchy about aegon. I really like the Blackfyre angle.

[Prince]

victarion is a clueless naive moron and i would be SHOCKED if he lived through the series

[Prince]

also jamie is best character in series

[Prince]

there was some theory on reddit that i like that varys is actually a faceless man and hes basically just trying to ruin everything for everyone

[Prince]

also if no one ever gets around to chumming around old valyria then i'll b pissed. with the amount of times GRRM has had people say ANYONE THAT GOES NEAR THERE NEVER COMES BACK he *has* to delve into wuts up over there

[Prince]

also i dont think the horn sam has is the ice horn

[Prince]

also so dum that dorne and its royalty apparently are v important and play a large role in whats going to happen and they basically werent mentioned until fifth book

[Sirken]

also so dum that dorne and its royalty apparently are v important and play a large role in whats going to happen and they basically werent mentioned until fifth book

err, thats not true at all. we start to really sink our teeth into Dorne in book 3. (hello red viper) ;)

[Prince]

"he's a eunuch, not a faceless man :P"

theres a TON of circumstantial evidence pointing to him being a faceless man, eg his extraordinary ability for disguise (like when he visits ned in the dungeons as jailer and neds like who da fuk are you then feels the stubble on his chin)

[Prince]

"did u read book 5?" wrt valyira yeah i read all the books but the only people i ever recall having been near/on valyria is euron and we dont even know if thats true. also if i recall correctly valyria is pretty much right in between where dany is at the end of adwd and westeros

[Prince]

i think youre reading too much into the series title. just bc horns make music and the series name is a song of fire and ice doesnt mean the two horns are the end all be all to the story. also jaqen killed pate and infiltrated citadel way way way before sam got there so that doesnt make sense as evidence

[Prince]

victarion is a good guy and he does have ships but if he lives it will be through the grace of others. he sucks at the game of thrones because he operates in a very similar manner as Ned did; pretty linearly

[Prince]

also if the damphair has more than one chapter total in the next two books i will cut someone

[Prince]

cuz he is annoying as fuck

[Sirken]

i think youre reading too much into the series title. just bc horns make music and the series name is a song of fire and ice doesnt mean the two horns are the end all be all to the story. also jaqen killed pate and infiltrated citadel way way way before sam got there so that doesnt make sense as evidence
you can't say im reading to much into the horns, and not say the same thing about the R&L being Jons parents. im not saying the end all be all, im saying they are important. thats all. Also, Jaqan WAS headed north, to the wall. but after Sam (and the horn) were sent away to the citadel, thats when Jaqan redirects that direction. yes Jaqan arrives and takes his place as Pate before Sam arrives, but thats what a smart person would do. get there early, take your seat, and wait. none of this get there late, talk on your cellphone, and hoot and hollar.

victarion is a good guy and he does have ships but if he lives it will be through the grace of others. he sucks at the game of thrones because he operates in a very similar manner as Ned did; pretty linearly
i disagree. but we will have to wait until books 6 and 7 to see who is right. Ned would never have made a deal with Dany to get his brother killed. and i think Victarion will make exactly that deal with Dany. Victarion gives Dany, her council and followers, her unsullied, her bloodriders, and her dragons a ride to Westeros + a horn that will allow her to actually control her dragons, because right now shes pretty useless as a dragon tamer. and in return, Dany will slew Euron (remember Euron wants to marry dany to use the dragons for his own, this will bring dany to Victarions side) and deliver Pyke to Victarion. at least, thats my theory and i like it. if i was victarion, its exactly what i would do.

also if the damphair has more than one chapter total in the next two books i will cut someone
i hope and pray and beg that we only had him as a PoV character to help us through the kings moot and introduce us to Euron. i will cut myself if i have to read another of his chapters.

[Prince]

hope he gets eaten by dargon

[Dalven]

A few days late on checking this thread, but anyway.

Also the prologue of 5, its about that wildling that can do it too, six skins or something like that. He died, yet was able to warg into one of his animals to escape death. I believe this was foreshadowing that another character would do the same thing (ie: Jon). Melisandre knows this is going to happen to Jon as she mentions hes surrounded by knives in the dark, or in the shadows, and then also tells him to keep Ghost close. As far as the smoking wounds, I think that’s because of how cold it is. Blood is warm enough for steam. But fun fact, Azor Azai is born amongst salt and smoke. Jon would be reborn as Azor Azai, I just havent worked in the salt. But I think light bringer is the nights watch, and I think the nights watch vows changed at somepoint. The Vows sam says to open the door under the wall are not the same vows they say to join the nights watch. Sounds like junk was added as its not required to open the magic door.

Yeah I totally agree with all of this. I hadn't noticed Sam's vows were different from before. What is interesting in Melisandre's chapter where she's trying to summon up the vision of Azor Ahai and keeps seeing Jon. Something still seems strange to me about all of his last chapter - it seemed totally out of character and against several books worth of angst about his vows for Jon to suddenly disregard his them and go sort out a wildling mob to take to Winterfell. Even if it is for who he believes is Arya.

Benjen I believe was already at the wall, so he wouldn’t know.

I'm not convinced this is the case - the war occurred not long after the tourney at Harrenhall as I believe Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off together shortly after the tourney and we know Benjen was at that tourney (the "wolf pup" in Meera's story). He would have been the 'Stark in Winterfell' during the time of the rebellion and there upon Ned's return. Although I may be wrong :)

Indeed, my thoughts exactly. Hopefully Barriston and her will cross paths; that would be the fastest way to confirm she is in fact Ashera Dayne. Did the starks really dishonor her? If I remember correct, she was infatuated with Ned Stark, and Ned with her. But Ned was bound by duty to marry Cat after his brother died. What did Ashera do at the tourney? Assuming this was the tourney that Rhaegar won and named Lyanna the queen of beauty as opposed to his Martell wife. I don’t recall Ashera being dishonored.


In Barriston's chapter 'The Kingbreaker' her is thinking about Ashara and notes

But Ashara's daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonoured her(...) If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty might she have looked to me instead of Stark?

Ashara has had a bastard stillbirth by a Stark (which incidentally rules her out for being a candidate for Jon's mother), we get no hint of this from Ned's POV and Barriston talks of him with respect in an earlier chapter. Brandon is also referred to as the 'wild wolf' and is noted to be hot headed and emotional which leaves me to suspect he is the Stark Barriston refers to. Tyrion also notes Septa Lemore bears the marks of childbirth when she bathes in one of his chapters.

You just blew my mind. I have no idea why Varys apparently wants the Targaryens in power. Definitely going to put in more time looking up the details surrounding the mummers dragon, one of the 3 things that will betray Dany. I never read the dunk and egg stories, but my buddy has and owns the stories. Theres definitely something sketchy about aegon. I really like the Blackfyre angle.

I don't think he is Illyrio's son, although I am convinced his parentage is Blackfyre. Dunk and Egg stories are totally worth checking out though.

[Dalven]

do u have any opinions on the two horns? (one for the wall (ice), and one for dragons (fire)), hence "A Song of Ice and Fire"

Sam has the ice horn, Victarian has the fire horn.

Victarion is a bad ass. i'm thinking him and Dany will arrange some kind of deal where Victarion lets Dany use his ships to get to Westeros and in exchange Dany will maybe help him remove Euron so that Victarion may sit the throne on Pyke?

Victarion is definitely a bad ass - all this mad stuff with his black smoking hand and his involvement with the red priest have made him infinitely more interesting. I agree that his ships will be involved with getting Dany to Westeros although I think Euron is to subtle to believe that Victarion will just do his bidding and will guess that he will try to take Dany for himself. Euron definitely has some double cross in the works. It'll be interesting to see how Victarion uses the horn to control the dragons, or whether Dany eventually gets a hold of it.

Sam's horn will apparently bring down the wall if used but is in Oldtown with him. I believe the wall is destined to fall, as the Others need this to happen to threaten the rest of the Seven Kingdoms, so it will be used at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince
also i dont think the horn sam has is the ice horn
i'd bet both my lungs against one of your kidneys that youre wrong. the fake ice horn was destroyed with the fake mance in the very real fire. theres a reason Sam took that horn to the citadel, and theres a reason Jaqan H'agar killed pate, and has been lingering around Sam. the horn is broken remember, but the Maesters have magic again cause there are dragons in the world again, therefore the horn can be repaired.

It is 100% the horn. The other mysterious thing about the horn is why it was found with a bunch of obsidian arrow heads and wrapped in a black cloak on the Fist of the First Men. Jaqen's presence in Oldtown is intriguing, makes you wonder what the Faceless Men's stake is and how that'll impact Arya.

got any opinions on anything involving Harrold Harding (harold the heir), Sansa Stark, Baelish, the queen of thorns? i think Baelish and that thorny tyrell bitch are up to something, i think Joffrey was only the first part of their plan. i believe they intend to divide westeros, the South to the Tyrells, and the north to Baelish, via the marriage of Sansa Stark, and the last male kin of the Arryn blood line, Harold.

Who know's what Baelish's other motives are other than eventual power and an infatuation with Sansa. I don't think he is in with the Queen of Thorns as they are in deep with the Lannisters now. Perhaps he's deliberately played the Tyrrels as well as he's played the Lannisters by tying them into each other with marriage and ensuring mutual downfall. Sansa is definitely becoming smarter in A Feast for Crows, it'll be interesting to see if she lets Littlefinger kill Robert Arryn with that sweetmilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince
theres a TON of circumstantial evidence pointing to him being a faceless man, eg his extraordinary ability for disguise (like when he visits ned in the dungeons as jailer and neds like who da fuk are you then feels the stubble on his chin)
touche. i will admit, the first 4 books i read a very long time ago, theres gonna be some details i apparently forgot. While he doesnt strike me as a faceless man, i won't rule it. i'll even put on my nerd badge and investigate this because u got me curious.touche. i will admit, the first 4 books i read a very long time ago, theres gonna be some details i apparently forgot. While he doesnt strike me as a faceless man, i won't rule it. i'll even put on my nerd badge and investigate this because u got me curious

Certainly evidence that Varys is a Faceless Man but even if he's acquired the skills I'm not convinced he is one, or at least not anymore. I'm not sure what the Faceless Men's interest in the fate of Westeros would be.

people have sailed near valyria. personally i think that when we actually land and explore the ruins we will find the long lost lannister valaryian steel sword that was lost. but not much more than that. GRRM already said no new PoV characters for 6 and 7. the only ones in a position to explore it are Tyrion and Mormont, or Victarion and Dany. ALSO, i personally wanna see Assai before the busted ruins of old valyria.

I also believe that we will get to see Valyria, or at least hear detail from someone who has been there. A lot of mentions have been made about Tyrion's uncle Gerion over the course of the books - I think we'll at least find out what happened to him.

[Sirken]

hope he gets eaten by dargon

just confirmed Aeron Greyjoy as a PoV character in book 6

[Sirken]

A few days late on checking this thread, but anyway.

Yeah I totally agree with all of this. I hadn't noticed Sam's vows were different from before. What is interesting in Melisandre's chapter where she's trying to summon up the vision of Azor Ahai and keeps seeing Jon. Something still seems strange to me about all of his last chapter - it seemed totally out of character and against several books worth of angst about his vows for Jon to suddenly disregard his them and go sort out a wildling mob to take to Winterfell. Even if it is for who he believes is Arya.
i 100% agree, i constantly mock Jon because of the dumb choices hes made because "hes a bastard, and a sworn man of the nights watch, whom swore his vows" etc etc. it almost makes me feel that was not Jon (ie: when "mance" gets burned in the fire). Jon is to important to the story to actually be dead. we havent even confirmed via GRRM who his parents are.

I'm not convinced this is the case - the war occurred not long after the tourney at Harrenhall as I believe Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off together shortly after the tourney and we know Benjen was at that tourney (the "wolf pup" in Meera's story). He would have been the 'Stark in Winterfell' during the time of the rebellion and there upon Ned's return. Although I may be wrong :)
good call, we do know benjen is there for the tourny, and we know he was the stark in winterfell during roberts rebellion, but then all we are told is:
"Benjen was the Stark in Winterfell. He joined the Night's Watch shortly after for reasons unknown."


Ashara has had a bastard stillbirth by a Stark (which incidentally rules her out for being a candidate for Jon's mother), we get no hint of this from Ned's POV and Barriston talks of him with respect in an earlier chapter. Brandon is also referred to as the 'wild wolf' and is noted to be hot headed and emotional which leaves me to suspect he is the Stark Barriston refers to. Tyrion also notes Septa Lemore bears the marks of childbirth when she bathes in one of his chapters.
we also know Brandon did not initially want to marry Cat, but for some reason i always thought Ned and Ashera had a fling, it fits as the easy answer for jon's parents to lazy readers. still 100% convinced that Septa Lamore = Ashera, but waiting on Barriston to confirm.

I don't think he is Illyrio's son, although I am convinced his parentage is Blackfyre. Dunk and Egg stories are totally worth checking out though.
ill check these out. Aegon is still a huge mystery to me as i dont totally believe everything we've been told about him. but that being said, im starting to really think Aegon is indeed Rhaegar's kid.

[Sirken]

Victarion is definitely a bad ass - all this mad stuff with his black smoking hand and his involvement with the red priest have made him infinitely more interesting. I agree that his ships will be involved with getting Dany to Westeros although I think Euron is to subtle to believe that Victarion will just do his bidding and will guess that he will try to take Dany for himself. Euron definitely has some double cross in the works. It'll be interesting to see how Victarion uses the horn to control the dragons, or whether Dany eventually gets a hold of it.
good call on Euron. as much as i dont like him, he is smart. and hes gotta be smart enough to have an insurance policy against Victarion. will surely be interesting to see this play out.

Sam's horn will apparently bring down the wall if used but is in Oldtown with him. I believe the wall is destined to fall, as the Others need this to happen to threaten the rest of the Seven Kingdoms, so it will be used at some point.
do we know for certain that the horn of winter brings down the wall? for some reason i always figured it was used to raising some sleeping beast or beasts. we have this quote:
"The Horn of Winter, also known as the Horn of Joramun, is a legendary horn with magical properties. It was supposedly blown by Joramun, a wildling King-Beyond-the-Wall. When he blew it, he woke the giants from the earth."
i feel it was the wildings who added the bit about it bringing down the wall. but i could be easily wrong. the only problem with it being the Horn of Joramun(winter) is that the Horn of Winter is described as being 8 ft long. but maybe the stories had been embellished over the years?

Who know's what Baelish's other motives are other than eventual power and an infatuation with Sansa. I don't think he is in with the Queen of Thorns as they are in deep with the Lannisters now. Perhaps he's deliberately played the Tyrrels as well as he's played the Lannisters by tying them into each other with marriage and ensuring mutual downfall. Sansa is definitely becoming smarter in A Feast for Crows, it'll be interesting to see if she lets Littlefinger kill Robert Arryn with that sweetmilk.
i think when the Tyrells learn it was Cersei that had Magarey locked up, that lil experiment will be over. and it is nice to see sansa finally learn something, but at this point if she goes against Baelish, shes pretty fucked. who else would help her? i love Baelish.


Certainly evidence that Varys is a Faceless Man but even if he's acquired the skills I'm not convinced he is one, or at least not anymore. I'm not sure what the Faceless Men's interest in the fate of Westeros would be.
ive decided there's no way Varys is a faceless man. Ned recognized Varys, master of guise? sure. but hes not changing faces or Ned would not have recognized him in the dungeon.

I also believe that we will get to see Valyria, or at least hear detail from someone who has been there. A lot of mentions have been made about Tyrion's uncle Gerion over the course of the books - I think we'll at least find out what happened to him.
i agree with the first part for sure. and i would love to learn what happened to Gerion as well as the lannister valaryian steel sword that vanished with him, but dunno if we'll get that far.

also, is anyone else pissed off about what happened to Ice? the sword that had been in the stark family over 400 years :(

[Sirken]

also, "The Lands of Ice and Fire" is out. finally seen all the correct versions of the maps. the ones on the internet arent far off, they are just missing a bunch between Qarth and Assai

[India]

I finally just started Book 5 Part 1 so had to skip all the spoilers above
That said I can't wait to finish so I can read back on what you guys are posting and check out what subtleties I may have missed :)

[Slave]

R+L=J because Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree, and everything follows very clearly from there.

Varys is a Targaryen loyalist because he is in fact a wizard and wants magic to grow stronger. He knows for a fact it exists and has been obsessed with it since he saw a demon summoned to the sacrifice of his manhood. It accounts for all his strange talents and motives. Either that, or he could be a Targaryen himself. His similar name, the fact he shaves his head (like Egg, who did it to disguise himself), there are clues.

Tyrion is probably a Targaryen and one of the heads of the dragon. Tywin's hatred, dragon dreams, his dwarfism, Barristan's tale, the evidence is there. The mummer's dragon is Aegon.

The Hound was clearly the gravedigger and will likely fight unGregor for the Faith. To what conclusion is anyone's guess. We still have about ZERO idea what is going on with Margaery. Cersei is showing signs of connivance once more, as well... and we know that Jaime the Valonquar will kill her, in his increasingly moralistic defense of the Kingdom.

We know for a fact that Bloodraven is Brynden Rivers.

Lightbringer is probably the dragons, making Dany Azor Ahai, and Drogo Nissa Nissa. :P

Osha took Rickon to Skagos, where Manderly sent Davos.

You know that Oberyn actually killed Tywin Lannister? He was in the slow process of dying when Tyrion shot him.

Jon is almost definitely alive, or will be reborn. I am not convinced the assassination attempt was successful. There were lots of free folk, Jon loyalists, and even an angry giant nearby with reason to protect Jon. "He never felt" the rest of the blows. Maybe because they never landed... but he cannot meet his end there, because his is the song of ice and fire. He is Targaryen + Stark, literally ice and fire.

In any case, Jon is not needed to defeat the Boltons. Stannis is there, several Umbers are there, Asha Greyjoy is there, Theon is there; Roose just sent the Manderleys and Ramsay's men into the snow. All told it is enough to put paid to the Boltons for good.

[Slave]

Euron Greyjoy hired a Faceless Man to kill Balon. The dwarf witch saw it.

[Slave]

The Wall must certainly fall, for plot alone, or else the realm is never in any danger.

[Sirken]

I finally just started Book 5 Part 1 so had to skip all the spoilers above
That said I can't wait to finish so I can read back on what you guys are posting and check out what subtleties I may have missed :)

good!~ i remember a couple cliff hangers from there, arya blind, cersei in the tower, brienne screams a word, etc etc.

have fun!

[Sirken]

Varys is a Targaryen loyalist because he is in fact a wizard and wants magic to grow stronger. He knows for a fact it exists and has been obsessed with it since he saw a demon summoned to the sacrifice of his manhood. It accounts for all his strange talents and motives. Either that, or he could be a Targaryen himself. His similar name, the fact he shaves his head (like Egg, who did it to disguise himself), there are clues.

You know that Oberyn actually killed Tywin Lannister? He was in the slow process of dying when Tyrion shot him.

Euron Greyjoy hired a Faceless Man to kill Balon. The dwarf witch saw it.

explain these please!

[Sirken]

The Wall must certainly fall, for plot alone, or else the realm is never in any danger.

pffft!!

dragons = danger!

[Slave]

pffft!!

dragons = danger!

Dragons are nothing but magic made life. They're a weapon, a tool. Dany is the only one that can probably control them (though the dragon horn opens up interesting scenarios). Therefore, they are tied inextricably to her own destiny and as she is a moralistic person, and now experienced ruler, the odds are vanishingly small of the dragons doing any kind of real damage to the "good team."

The climax will be Ice vs Fire, the Others vs Azor Ahai, for the Battle of the Dawn. Not Fire vs peasants. :)

[Slave]

Oberyn Martell poisoned Tywin Lannister when he met him for a snack in his solar. Around this time, he tells Tyrion, "everyone dies, the old man won't be around forever," or something to that effect. Tywin's corpse was stinking and he was shitting his guts out just before he died, the effects of which are tied to a certain poison.

At some point, the Brotherhood Without Banners pays a dwarf witch with Tom's song for her visions. She sees A TON OF STUFF, including a Faceless Man meeting Balon on the rope bridge between towers. This vision sequence, along with Dany's in the House of the Undying, forms the basis for a lot of the conclusions that have been drawn on the series.

Varys is either a Targaryen or a wizard or both, I am absolutely convinced. His strange powers of information and disguise, his actual prior experience with sorcery, which left him radically changed - physically, intellectually, and emotionally. The strange gleam in his eye and his un-Varys like directness in the telling of the story to Tyrion... these are the kinds of things that add up in GRRM's world.

We know that Varys came from the East, another possible indicator of his Targaryen heritage. "Beware of the eunuch. He knows things that he should not." -Ned

Illyrio actually calls him a magician under the Red Keep near the dragon bones when Arya overhears them.

Anyway, nothing else that Varys has revealed has convinced me that it would cause him to support the Targaryens. The other story that he wove for Tyrion, that he found his place in the world at court, etc, it doesn't ring true whatsoever, does it? The real take-away from Varys is that he was gelded in an arcane ceremony that he undoubtedly remembers extremely vividly. "I will never forget that voice..." I think it's a very easy intuitive leap from there, to wizard.

[Slave]

brienne screams a word, etc etc.



I believe the word she screamed was ARYA

She had knowledge of her existence in Saltpans.

And really, what else would stop unCat from her hangwoman duties?

[Prince]

Ned recognized Varys, master of guise? sure. but hes not changing faces or Ned would not have recognized him in the dungeon.


ned didnt recognize him in the dungeon you moron he had to tell ned who he was

[Sirken]

Oberyn Martell poisoned Tywin Lannister when he met him for a snack in his solar. Around this time, he tells Tyrion, "everyone dies, the old man won't be around forever," or something to that effect. Tywin's corpse was stinking and he was shitting his guts out just before he died, the effects of which are tied to a certain poison.
it surely fits, but its something i must have overlooked. it sure has my attention now though.

At some point, the Brotherhood Without Banners pays a dwarf witch with Tom's song for her visions. She sees A TON OF STUFF, including a Faceless Man meeting Balon on the rope bridge between towers. This vision sequence, along with Dany's in the House of the Undying, forms the basis for a lot of the conclusions that have been drawn on the series.
do you recall what book these dorf witch's visions are from? i fear drunk reading has cost me valuable information.

Varys is either a Targaryen or a wizard or both, I am absolutely convinced. His strange powers of information and disguise, his actual prior experience with sorcery, which left him radically changed - physically, intellectually, and emotionally. The strange gleam in his eye and his un-Varys like directness in the telling of the story to Tyrion... these are the kinds of things that add up in GRRM's world.

We know that Varys came from the East, another possible indicator of his Targaryen heritage. "Beware of the eunuch. He knows things that he should not." -Ned

Illyrio actually calls him a magician under the Red Keep near the dragon bones when Arya overhears them.

Anyway, nothing else that Varys has revealed has convinced me that it would cause him to support the Targaryens. The other story that he wove for Tyrion, that he found his place in the world at court, etc, it doesn't ring true whatsoever, does it? The real take-away from Varys is that he was gelded in an arcane ceremony that he undoubtedly remembers extremely vividly. "I will never forget that voice..." I think it's a very easy intuitive leap from there, to wizard.
i will say, you sir have impressed me more so than any one else when it comes to possible theories on Varys. way to notice and remember things that dont seem important at the time.

[Sirken]

I believe the word she screamed was ARYA

She had knowledge of her existence in Saltpans.

And really, what else would stop unCat from her hangwoman duties?

she screamed "SWORD!" Lady Stoneheart (aka unCat) tells Brienne "Choose, Sword or Rope" (meaning swear your sword to Cat and go kill Jaime, or hang to death on the end of a rope. she choose Sword when she saw Pod hanging/choking)

[Sirken]

Ned recognized Varys, master of guise? sure. but hes not changing faces or Ned would not have recognized him in the dungeon.
ned didnt recognize him in the dungeon you moron he had to tell ned who he was
im sorry buddy, it just doesn't fit. and the reason he had to tell Ned who he was is because Ned could not see a damned thing in the black cells.

[Slave]

I am pretty sure both vision sequences are in A Clash of Kings.



i will say, you sir have impressed me more so than any one else when it comes to possible theories on Varys. way to notice and remember things that dont seem important at the time.

As the master of information and a seeker of arcane knowledge, Varys undoubtedly knows the connection between dragons and magic. I think that his is a game to put Dany on top, so that he will have unlimited power vis a vis dragon magic, forever.

[Sirken]

I am pretty sure both vision sequences are in A Clash of Kings.



As the master of information and a seeker of arcane knowledge, Varys undoubtedly knows the connection between dragons and magic. I think that his is a game to put Dany on top, so that he will have unlimited power vis a vis dragon magic, forever.

and i know you could argue Varys knows what he knows because of his little birds. but if i recall, he was one of (if not) the first person in westeros to know (or sense/feel) that the dragons have returned. and thats only relevant because we know that dragons = magic, and while he wouldnt sense the dragons, he would be able to feel the magic returning to the world and put two and two together.

i dont know if i mentioned this earlier or not, but just in case i did not, we have some info from GRRM's website about book 6. we now KNOW Ramsay's letter to Jon was bullshit, because we know that Stannis is alive now. which means we dont know if he has Mance or not. he could have skinned a woman until she spilled the beans about Mance. we also KNOW that Theon and Jeyne Poole made it to Stannis, and that Stannis has sent Jeyne to the wall as a gift to Jon (Stannis thinks Jeyne is Arya) for telling him to get the northern tribes before walking into the karstark/bolton trap. However, in Jons current situation, he will be hard for him to say thats not the real Arya.

we also know that book 6 is going to start off with two big battles. one has to be for Mereen as that was left unanswered with too many powerhouse characters in the area. but then the second battle has absolutely got to be Stannis and company versus Winterfell and the Boltons. i feel the Manderlys will also join Stannis, but theres nothing on GRRMs site about it.

also i think the tv show, season 3, will end with the red wedding. its really the only decent stopping point near the middle of book3, and if they stick to their guns about splitting the book into two seasons, well i just dont see another place to end the season while keeping people happy/immersed.

[Slave]

we also know that book 6 is going to start off with two big battles. one has to be for Mereen as that was left unanswered with too many powerhouse characters in the area. but then the second battle has absolutely got to be Stannis and company versus Winterfell and the Boltons. i feel the Manderlys will also join Stannis, but theres nothing on GRRMs site about it.

also i think the tv show, season 3, will end with the red wedding. its really the only decent stopping point near the middle of book3, and if they stick to their guns about splitting the book into two seasons, well i just dont see another place to end the season while keeping people happy/immersed.

Stannis will make a positively awesome 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch for the Battle of the Dawn, don't you think?

I think you might be right about Season 3... won't that be amazing!!

[Sirken]

Stannis will make a positively awesome 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch for the Battle of the Dawn, don't you think?


100% think the same thing

[Sirken]

Stannis will make a positively awesome 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch for the Battle of the Dawn, don't you think?

I think you might be right about Season 3... won't that be amazing!!


i remember in season 1, when Ned died. soooo many dumb kids ran to the HBO forums to complain that HBO writers were dumb as shit for killing ned. they had no idea the show was based on a book, and that it actually was following script.

that being said, the exact same people are absolutely going to lose their shit when they see what Robb and Catelyn are about to get into.

[gotrocks]

all you need to know is that George RR Martin is an asshole.

I agree with this so much.

Total fucking asshole.

[Wrei]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yj0e0r_yLI


Production videos for season 3. Sets looks awesome as usual... and not gonna lie Beric Dondarrion with that flaming Jedi sword gave me a boner. FU@#$@$@ MARCH though? WTF HBO....

[Khaleesi]

Well if there was ever a first post to make on the forums, I suppose this is the place.


Don't worry I'll be back... next year.

[Lorraine]

all you need to know is that George RR Martin is an asshole.


Steven Erikson >>> G. RR. Martin

Can'o'worms opened.

[Slave]

Malazan Book of the Fallen is like Harry Potter for emos.

[Sirken]

Winds of Winter Info:

At the 2011 World Science Fiction Convention in Reno, Nevada, Martin read an Arianne chapter, during which she heads for Griffin's Roost to see the young boy who is calling himself Aegon.[citation needed] Victarion's chapter will begin five minutes after the end of A Dance with Dragons, taking place on the eve of the Iron Islanders' surprise attack on the cities in Slaver's Bay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Winds_of_Winter

Viewpoint characters

George R. R. Martin confirmed the following characters to have POV chapters in The Winds of Winter:

Sansa Stark, one chapter was removed from A Dance with Dragons in June 2010
Arya Stark, one chapter was removed from A Dance with Dragons in June 2010
Arianne Martell, two chapters were removed from A Dance with Dragons in June 2010
Aeron Greyjoy, one chapter was removed from A Dance with Dragons in July 2010
Theon Greyjoy, one sample chapter appeared on Martin's website in December 2011
Victarion Greyjoy, portions of one chapter were first read at TIFF Bell Lightbox in March 2012
Tyrion Lannister, one chapter was read at Eastercon in April 2012

[Prince]

Winds of Winter Info:

At the 2011 World Science Fiction Convention in Reno, Nevada, Martin read an Arianne chapter, during which she heads for Griffin's Roost to see the young boy who is calling himself Aegon.[citation needed] Victarion's chapter will begin five minutes after the end of A Dance with Dragons, taking place on the eve of the Iron Islanders' surprise attack on the cities in Slaver's Bay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Winds_of_Winter

Viewpoint characters

George R. R. Martin confirmed the following characters to have POV chapters in The Winds of Winter:

Sansa Stark, one chapter was removed from A Dance with Dragons in June 2010
Arya Stark, one chapter was removed from A Dance with Dragons in June 2010
Arianne Martell, two chapters were removed from A Dance with Dragons in June 2010
Aeron Greyjoy, one chapter was removed from A Dance with Dragons in July 2010
Theon Greyjoy, one sample chapter appeared on Martin's website in December 2011
Victarion Greyjoy, portions of one chapter were first read at TIFF Bell Lightbox in March 2012
Tyrion Lannister, one chapter was read at Eastercon in April 2012


book sounds awful already

[Sirken]

book sounds awful already
Aeron Greyjoy obviously your favorite character

[Prince]

if i wanted 2 read the pov of someone moping 24/7 i wud read twilite

[Kevynne]

i know i'm late! but
100% agree on Jon Snow= Azor Azai
and Nissa Nissa= Ygritte.
god damn. if jon wasnt sleeping or fighting he was inside ygritte >_<

[Kevynne]

Cersei deserves the mother of the year award.
Incest with her entire family then raises psycho children! YES.
Her thought process was probably:
"#YOLO BETTER FUCK MY TWIN BROTHER LOLOL"




-was talking to a friend of mine and made this my fb status and i thought MAYBE p99 FANS MAY LIKE IT TOO.
cus the yolo=asoiaf thing at the end is damn hilarious.

[Sirken]

i know i'm late! but
100% agree on Jon Snow= Azor Azai
and Nissa Nissa= Ygritte.
god damn. if jon wasnt sleeping or fighting he was inside ygritte >_<

better late than never!

i have a buddy thats convinced Stannis is still azor azai. personally i believe Stannis will become the 1000th lord commander of the nights watch.

nissa nissa = ygritte? i dunno about that. John didnt kill Ygritte, nor did he sacrifice her. if John is AA, then i could see nissa nissa being Arya. if Stannis is AA, then nissa nissa could be stannis' wife or daughter.

that being said, im starting to believe Aegon is the mummers dragon that was prophesied to Dany. im also thinking Aegon is a Blackfyre, although theres not much concrete evidence to support that.

[Slave]

better late than never!

i have a buddy thats convinced Stannis is still azor azai. personally i believe Stannis will become the 1000th lord commander of the nights watch.

nissa nissa = ygritte? i dunno about that. John didnt kill Ygritte, nor did he sacrifice her. if John is AA, then i could see nissa nissa being Arya. if Stannis is AA, then nissa nissa could be stannis' wife or daughter.

that being said, im starting to believe Aegon is the mummers dragon that was prophesied to Dany. im also thinking Aegon is a Blackfyre, although theres not much concrete evidence to support that.

RE:AA We know that Dany is the front-runner for AA. She killed Drogo, the thing she loved the most, and used the power of his and Mirri Maz Duur's sacrifices to quicken Lightbringer, the dragons. Jon would have to be a blindside from a heretofore unknown evidence line. The others that could have some validity to them other than Dany would be Davos Seaworth, and (a very weak chance imo) Bran Stark.

-Davos was reborn amidst the Battle of the Blackwater, salt and smoke, under the Red Comet. He also loves his remaining son immensely and may be in a position to sacrifice him to R'hllor, being in and around that particular religious cult.

-When you read about Bran's emergence from the Winterell catacombs after the Ironmen and then Ramsay Bolton had destroyed it, there is a metaphor, supposedly about the ashes and smoke, regarding a dragon taking flight. A dragon under Winterfell. Could this have something to do with the source of the hot waters and springs in and under the castle? In any case, he is reborn amidst salt and smoke; Ironmen (this was also used in Bran's prophetic vision, drowning in the salt water) and renegade northmen have destroyed Winterfell.

Aegon cannot be true if Tyrion is a Targaryen. There is enough evidence for that scenario in my mind, and enough for Aegon to be false, ie mummer's dragon among others (Dunk and Egg), that I think we can discount Aegon being a Targaryen. The dragon always has three heads. Jon, Dany, Tyrion. Being a Blackfyre would be interesting. If the Targaryens were extinguished, wouldn't that still make him the "true" heir to the throne, according to the oldest houses who derive their power from the Targaryens? Dany is not immortal and GRRM has a great predilection for chaos, blood, and twists. But really what I think is that Dorne will declare for Aegon and they will war with what remains of the military of the Kingdom on the Iron Throne. They will fight each other to a bloody, attritional standstill while Winter falls and the Others begin their march south from the shattered Wall and Jon Connington turns to stone, and the religious orders divide and destroy the realm from within.

[Hasbinlulz]

GRRM has the last books written and will parcel them out; until at his deathbed, he will release the final chapter in which every character dies, and new, unrelated stories begin.

[Dalven]

Aegon cannot be true if Tyrion is a Targaryen. There is enough evidence for that scenario in my mind, and enough for Aegon to be false, ie mummer's dragon among others (Dunk and Egg), that I think we can discount Aegon being a Targaryen. The dragon always has three heads. Jon, Dany, Tyrion. Being a Blackfyre would be interesting. If the Targaryens were extinguished, wouldn't that still make him the "true" heir to the throne, according to the oldest houses who derive their power from the Targaryens? Dany is not immortal and GRRM has a great predilection for chaos, blood, and twists. But really what I think is that Dorne will declare for Aegon and they will war with what remains of the military of the Kingdom on the Iron Throne. They will fight each other to a bloody, attritional standstill while Winter falls and the Others begin their march south from the shattered Wall and Jon Connington turns to stone, and the religious orders divide and destroy the realm from within.

As I've said earlier in the thread I am in the Aegon is a Blackfyre camp, which by extension could imply that Varys is a Blackfyre rather than a Targaryen as you have suggest earlier in the thread. I have my doubts that Illyrio and Varys' end game focuses around Dany; it would have required some incredible foresight regarding Viserys' death and Dany's rise to power, and even if they were originally planning on using Viserys as a puppet figurehead the appearance of Aegon changes (for us) what appears to be the focus of their end game. Although if Varys is a powerful magic user of some variety (and your points on this have made me think in this direction) maybe he did know. Certainly destabilisation of the realm was their long term goal, from the conversation Arya overhead in GoT, although whether it may be in aid of the Others (speculation) or simply creating the right conditions for their own chance to take over remains to be seen.

Also a fan of Tyrion being a Targaryen.

[Sirken]

I have my doubts that Illyrio and Varys' end game focuses around Dany; it would have required some incredible foresight regarding Viserys' death and Dany's rise to power, and even if they were originally planning on using Viserys as a puppet figurehead the appearance of Aegon changes (for us) what appears to be the focus of their end game. Although if Varys is a powerful magic user of some variety (and your points on this have made me think in this direction) maybe he did know. Certainly destabilisation of the realm was their long term goal, from the conversation Arya overhead in GoT, although whether it may be in aid of the Others (speculation) or simply creating the right conditions for their own chance to take over remains to be seen. Also a fan of Tyrion being a Targaryen.

i dont think Illyrio and Varys' end game focuses around Dany so much as it did targaryen.
i think plans switched to her after her brother died, and i think they were sped up when Robert died. as far as the convo arya overheard, i think that was more about creating the conditions they need in order to put their puppet on the throne.

as far as tyrion = tagaryen, i'm back and forth on it. it fits, but also i cant see Tywin ever saying "You are my son" to tyrion if he was not in fact Tywin's son. Hell, Tywin most likely would have drowned tyrion as a baby... a bastard tagaryen dwarf baby that killed his wife in child birth.

[Sirken]

also, i was wrong about something in my OP. theres no way Coldhands is Benjen Stark.

better chance Coldhands = the Night King, 13th commander of the nights watch. as one of the children of the forest claim hes been dead for a very long time. and since the children live thousands of years, 2 years (at most, the time since benjen disappeared) would not be considered a long time

[Sirken]

also, is there any way that Ned's brother, Brandon Stark, had a baby with Ashara Dayne?

[Safon]

Just finished the red wedding chapter and the two that follow it. Tywin is telling Tyrion of how the north and riverlands are to be carved up and fed to freys and boltons

I don't think I can stomach two more books of this lmao. I may have to find a new series to read

[Sirken]

Just finished the red wedding chapter and the two that follow it. Tywin is telling Tyrion of how the north and riverlands are to be carved up and fed to freys and boltons

I don't think I can stomach two more books of this lmao. I may have to find a new series to read

book 3 is the best, gotta finish every last page down to the epilogue ;)

[Slave]

book 3 is the best, gotta finish every last page down to the epilogue ;)

The best book in the best fantasy series ever written, really. It's sort of a repeatedly cresting tidal wave that keeps getting fucking bigger.

[Krysttal]

So as a fan of the book series, what has always bothered me is the vanishing of Benjen Stark.... I mean it seems that somone that was suppose to be "seasoned" could and would survive.... I have a feeling he will be coming back in TWoW.

[Krysttal]

The best book in the best fantasy series ever written, really. It's sort of a repeatedly cresting tidal wave that keeps getting fucking bigger.

I use to agree with this.

Last comic con I went to my husband actually got into an agrument with some guy about how it was the greatest series ever. I kind of stood in the way and listened.

I ended up reading the the series he recomended. The First Law series by Joe Abercrombie.... while the first 3 books of the The First Law are good, the side books probably make the series better.

One that that makes me mad, and probably one of the reason why I have began getting pissed off at the series. I started reading Game of Thrones in 1998 in my senior year of high school. Martin takes his damn time writing, and he openly admits its becaue he has other projects going on at the same time. He has stated that its not unsusal for him to be co-writing 2 bookts, writing a graphic novel, and (more recently) doing tours. He only spends a few hours a week writing the ASOIAF series.

And what worries me, with 2, possibly 3 more books to be released, we may never see them. He is 64 years old and in poor health. His last two books to 5 years, then 6 years to write. (Notice before book 3 they were spread 2 years apart, partially because his fame and success lead him to take on more work). If Tthe Winds of Winter takes 5 years to make from 2011, your talking about 2017 ( He will be 67 years old) and then 2023 for A Dream of Spring, he will be pushing 72 years old...... we may never actually see the end of this book series.

It just frustrates me as a fan... and let me say. I am a fan. Weather it is the best fantasy book series may be an agrument that we dont want to get into.

While I like to say I think its a great fantasy novel for people who like complex stories and fantasy where its not "too fantasy" for people just getitng into the genre.

I highly recomend the First Law Trilogy, then the subseqeunt side stories by Joe Abercrombie. The book Best Serve Cold is probably the best book I ever read....

[Sirken]

And what worries me, with 2, possibly 3 more books to be released, we may never see them. He is 64 years old and in poor health. His last two books to 5 years, then 6 years to write. (Notice before book 3 they were spread 2 years apart, partially because his fame and success lead him to take on more work). If Tthe Winds of Winter takes 5 years to make from 2011, your talking about 2017 ( He will be 67 years old) and then 2023 for A Dream of Spring, he will be pushing 72 years old...... we may never actually see the end of this book series.


theres only 2 books left, "Winds of Winter" and "A Dream of Spring" (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Dream_of_Spring). that said, "Winds of Winter" is just about done, expected release date is May 28 2013. at worst we can expect "A Dream of Spring" in 2018 or 2019.

also if you dont think Book 3 is the best of the current 5, id love to hear which one is your favorite. 4 outta 5 dentists agree that book 3 is the best ;)

[Sirken]

New 'Winds Of Winter' Chapter Revealed By George RR Martin
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/933737/thumbs/r-READ-WINDS-OF-WINTER-large570.jpg?11

Arianne
On the morning that she left the Water Gardens, her father rose from his chair to kiss her on both cheeks. "The fate of Dorne goes with you, daughter," he said, as he pressed the parchment into her hand. "Go swiftly, go safely, be my eyes and ears and voice... but most of all, take care."
"I will, Father." She did not shed a tear. Arianne Martell was a princess of Dorne, and Dornishmen did not waste water lightly. It was a near thing, though. It was not her father's kisses nor his hoarse words that made her eyes glisten, but the effort that brought him to his feet, his legs trembling under him, his joints swollen and inflamed with gout. Standing was an act of love. Standing was an act of faith.
He believes in me. I will not fail him.
Seven of them set out together on seven Dornish sand steeds. A small party travels more swiftly than a large one, but the heir to Dorne does not ride alone. From Godsgrace came Ser Daemon Sand, the bastard; once Prince Oberyn's squire, now Arianne's sworn shield. From Sunspear two bold young knights, Joss Hood and Garibald Shells, to lend their swords to his. From the Water Gardens seven ravens and a tall young lad to tend them. His name was Nate, but he had been working with the birds so long that no one called him anything but Feathers. And since a princess must have some women to attend her, her company also included pretty Jayne Ladybright and wild Elia Sand, a maid of ten-and-four.

They struck out north by northwest, across drylands and parched plains and pale sands toward Ghost Hill, the stronghold of House Toland, where the ship that would take them across the Sea of Dorne awaited them. "Send a raven whenever you have news," Prince Doran told her, "but report only what you know to be true. We are lost in fog here, besieged by rumors, falsehoods, and traveler's tales. I dare not act until I know for a certainty what is happening."
War is happening, though Arianne, and this time Dorne will not be spared. "Doom and death are coming," Ellaria Sand had warned them, before she took her own leave from Prince Doran. "It is time for my little snakes to scatter, the better to survive the carnage." Ellaria was returning to her father's seat at Hellholt. With her went her daughter Loreza, who had just turned seven. Dorea remained at the Water Gardens, one child amongst a hundred. Obella was to be dispatched to Sunspear, to serve as a cupbearer to the wife of the castellan, Manfrey Martell.
And Elia Sand, oldest of the four girls that Prince Oberyn had fathered on Ellaria, would cross the Sea of Dorne with Arianne. "As a lady, not a lance," her mother said firmly, but like all the Sand Snakes, Elia had her own mind.
They crossed the sands in two long days and the better part of two nights, stopping thrice to change their horses. It was a lonely time for Arianne, surrounded by so many strangers. Elia was her cousin, but half a child, and Daemon Sand... things had never been the same between her and the Bastard of Godsgrace after her father refused his offer for her hand. He was a boy then, and bastard born, no fit consort for a princess of Dorne, he should have known better. And it was my father's will, not mine. The rest of her companions she hardly knew at all.
Arianne missed her friends. Drey and Garin and her sweet Spotted Slyva had been a part of her since she was little, trusted confidants who had shared her dreams and secrets, cheered her when she was sad, helped her face her fears. One of them had betrayed her, but she missed them all the same. It was my own fault. Arianne had made them part of her plot to steal off with Myrcella Baratheon and crown her queen, an act of rebellion meant to force her father's hand, but someone's loose tongue had undone her. The clumsy conspiracy had accomplished nothing, except to cost poor Myrcella part of her face, and Ser Arys Oakheart his life.
Arianne missed Ser Arys too, more than she ever would have thought. He loved me madly, she told herself, yet I was never more than fond of him. I made use of him in my bed and in my plot, took his love and took his honor, gave him nothing but my body. In the end he could not live with what we'd done. Why else would her white knight have charged right into Areo Hotah's longaxe, to die the way he did? I was a foolish willful girl, playing at the game of thrones like a drunkard rolling dice.
The cost of her folly had been dear. Drey had been sent across the world to Norvos, Garin exiled to Tyrosh for two years, her sweet silly smiling Slyva married off to Eldon Estermont, a man old enough to be her grandsire. Ser Arys had paid with his life's blood, Myrcella with an ear.
Only Ser Gerold Dayne had escaped unscathed. Darkstar. If Myrcella's horse had not shied at the last instant, his longsword would have opened her from chest to waist instead just taking off her ear. Dayne was her most grievous sin, the one that Arianne most regretted. With one stroke of his sword, he had changed her botched plot into something foul and bloody. If the gods were good, by now Obara Sand had treed him in his mountain fastness and put an end to him.
She said as much to Daemon Sand that first night, as they made camp. "Be careful what you pray for, princess," he replied. "Darkstar could put an end to Lady Obara just as easily."
"She has Areo Hotah with her." Prince Doran's captain of guards had dispatched Ser Arys Oakheart with a single blow, though the Kingsguard were supposed to be the finest knights in all the realm. "No man can stand against Hotah."
"Is that what Darkstar is? A man?" Ser Daemon grimaced. "A man would not have done what he did to Princess Myrcella. Ser Gerold is more a viper than your uncle ever was. Prince Oberyn could see that he was poison, he said so more than once. It's just a pity that he never got around to killing him."
Poison, thought Arianne. Yes. Pretty poison, though. That was how he'd fooled her. Gerold Dayne was hard and cruel, but so fair to look upon that the princess had not believed half the tales she'd heard of him. Pretty boys had ever been her weakness, particularly the ones who were dark and dangerous as well. That was before, when I was just a girl, she told herself. I am a woman now, my father's daughter. I have learned that lesson.
Come break of day, they were off again. Elia Sand led the way, her black braid flying behind her as she raced across the dry, cracked plains and up into the hills. The girl was mad for horses, which might be why she often smelled like one, to the despair of her mother. Sometimes Arianne felt sorry for Ellaria. Four girls, and every one of them her father's daughter.
The rest of the party kept a more sedate pace. The princess found herself riding beside Ser Daemon, remembering other rides when they were younger, rides that often ended in embraces. When she found herself stealing glances at him, tall and gallant in the saddle, Arianne reminded herself that she was heir to Dorne, and him no more than her shield. "Tell me what you know of this Jon Connington," she commanded.
"He's dead," said Daemon Sand. "He died in the Disputed Lands. Of drink, I've heard it said."
"So a dead drunk leads this army?"
"Perhaps this Jon Connington is a son of that one. Or just some clever sellsword who has taken on a dead man's name."
"Or he never died at all." Could Connington have been pretending to be dead for all these years? That would require patience worthy of her father. The thought made Arianne uneasy. Treating with a man that subtle could be perilous. "What was he like before he... before he died?"
"I was a boy at Godsgrace when he was sent into exile. I never knew the man."
"Then tell me what you've heard of him from others."
"As my princess commands. Connington was Lord of Griffin's Roost when Griffin's Roost was still a lordship worth the having. Prince Rhaegar's squire, or one of them. Later Prince Rhaegar's friend and companion. The Mad King named him Hand during Robert's Rebellion, but he was defeated at Stoney Sept in the Battle of the Bells, and Robert slipped away. King Aerys was wroth, and sent Connington into exile. There he died."
"Or not." Prince Doran had told her all of that. There must be more. "Those are just the things he did. I know all that. What sort of man was he? Honest and honorable, venal and grasping, proud?"
"Proud, for a certainty. Even arrogant. A faithful friend to Rhaegar, but prickly with others. Robert was his liege, but I've heard it said that Connington chafed at serving such a lord. Even then, Robert was known to be fond of wine and whores."
"No whores for Lord Jon, then?"
"I could not say. Some men keep their whoring secret."
"Did he have a wife? A paramour?"
Ser Daemon shrugged. "Not that I have ever heard."
That was troubling too. Ser Arys Oakheart had broken his vows for her, but it did not sound as if Jon Connington could be similarly swayed. Can I match such a man with words alone?
The princess lapsed into silence, all the while pondering what she would find at journey's end. That night when they made camp, she crept into the tent she shared with Jayne Ladybright and Elia Sand and slipped the bit of parchment out of her sleeve to read the words again.

To Prince Doran of House Martell,
You will remember me, I pray. I knew your sister well,
and was a leal servant of your good-brother. I grieve
for them as you do. I did not die, no more than did
your sister's son. To save his life we kept him hidden,
but the time for hiding is done. A dragon has returned
to Westeros to claim his birthright and seek vengeance
for his father, and for the princess Elia, his mother.
In her name I turn to Dorne. Do not forsake us.
Jon Connington
Lord of Griffin's Roost
Hand of the True King

Arianne read the letter thrice, then rolled it up and tucked it back into her sleeve. A dragon has returned to Westeros, but not the dragon my father was expecting. Nowhere in the words was there a mention of Daenerys Stormborn... nor of Prince Quentyn, her brother, who had been sent to seek the dragon queen. The princess remembered how her father had pressed the onyx cyvasse piece into her palm, his voice hoarse and low as he confessed his plan. A long and perilous voyage, with an uncertain welcome at its end, he had said. He has gone to bring us back our heart's desire. Vengeance. Justice. Fire and blood.
Fire and blood was what Jon Connington (if indeed it was him) was offering as well. Or was it? "He comes with sellswords, but no dragons," Prince Doran had told her, the night the raven came. "The Golden Company is the best and largest of the free companies, but ten thousand mercenaries cannot hope to win the Seven Kingdoms. Elia's son... I would weep for joy if some part of my sister had survived, but what proof do we have that this is Aegon?" His voice broke when he said that. "Where are the dragons?" he asked. "Where is Daenerys?" and Arianne knew that he was really saying, "Where is my son?"
In the Boneway and the Prince's Pass, two Dornish hosts had massed, and there they sat, sharpening their spears, polishing their armor, dicing, drinking, quarreling, their numbers dwindling by the day, waiting, waiting, waiting for the Prince of Dorne to loose them on the enemies of House Martell. Waiting for the dragons. For fire and blood. For me. One word from Arianne and those armies would march... so long as that word was dragon. If instead the word she sent was war, Lord Yronwood and Lord Fowler and their armies would remain in place. The Prince of Dorne was nothing if not subtle; here war meant wait.
At mid-morning on the third day Ghost Hill loomed up before them, its chalk-white walls shining against the deep blue of the Sea of Dorne. From the square towers at the castle's corners flew the banners of House Toland; a green dragon biting its own tail, upon a golden field. The sun-and-spear of House Martell streamed atop the great central keep, gold and red and orange, defiant.
Ravens had flown ahead to warn Lady Toland of their coming, so the castle gates were open, and Nymella's eldest daughter rode forth with her steward to meet them near the bottom of the hill. Tall and fierce, with a blaze of bright red hair tumbling about her shoulders, Valena Toland greeted Arianne with a shout of, "Come at last, have you? How slow are those horses?"
"Swift enough to outrun yours to the castle gates."
"We will see about that." Valena wheeled her big red around and put her heels into him, and the race was on, through the dusty lanes of the village at the bottom of the hill, as chickens and villagers alike scrambled out of their path. Arianne was three horse lengths behind by the time she got her mare up to a gallop, but had closed to one halfway up the slope. The two of them were side-by-side as they thundered towards the gatehouse, but five yards from the gates Elia Sand came flying from the cloud of dust behind them to rush past both of them on her black filly.
"Are you half horse, child?" Valena asked, laughing, in the yard. "Princess, did you bring a stable girl?"
"I'm Elia," the girl announced. "Lady Lance."
Whoever hung that name on her has much to answer for. Like as not it had been Prince Oberyn, though, and the Red Viper had never answered to anyone but himself.
"The girl jouster," Valena said. "Yes, I've heard of you. Since you were the first to the yard, you've won the honor of watering and bridling the horses."
"And after that find the bath house," said Princess Arianne. Elia was chalk and dust from heels to hair.
That night Arianne and her knights supped with Lady Nymella and her daughters in the great hall of the castle. Teora, the younger girl, had the same red hair as her sister, but elsewise could not have been more different. Short, plump, and so shy she might have passed for a mute, she displayed more interest in the spiced beef and honeyed duck than in the comely young knights at the table, and seemed content to let her lady mother and her sister speak for House Toland.
"We have heard the same tales here that you have heard at Sunspear," Lady Nymella told them as her serving man poured the wine. "Sellswords landing on Cape Wrath, castles under siege or being taken, crops seized or burned. Where these men come from and who they are, no one is certain."
"Pirates and adventurers, we heard at first," said Valena. "Then it was supposed to be the Golden Company. Now it's said to be Jon Connington, the Mad King's Hand, come back from the grave to reclaim his birthright. Whoever it is, Griffin's Roost has fallen to them. Rain House, Crow's Nest, Mistwood, even Greenstone on its island. All taken."
Arianne's thoughts went at once to her sweet Spotted Slyva. "Who would want Greenstone? Was there a battle?"
"Not as we have heard, but all the tales are garbled."
"Tarth has fallen too, some fisherfolk will tell you," said Valena. "These sellswords now hold most of Cape Wrath and half the Stepstones. We hear talk of elephants in the rainwood."
"Elephants?" Arianne did not know what to think of that. "Are you certain? Not dragons?"
"Elephants," Lady Nymella said firmly.
"And krakens off the Broken Arm, pulling under crippled galleys," said Valena. "The blood draws them to the surface, our maester claims. There are bodies in the water. A few have washed up on our shores. And that's not half of it. A new pirate king has set up on Torturer's Deep. The Lord of the Waters, he styles himself. This one has real warships, three-deckers, monstrous large. You were wise not to come by sea. Since the Redwyne fleet passed through the Stepstones, those waters are crawling with strange sails, all the way north to the Straights of Tarth and Shipbreaker's Bay. Myrmen, Volantenes, Lyseni, even reavers from the Iron Islands. Some have entered the Sea of Dorne to land men on the south shore of Cape Wrath. We found a good fast ship for you, as your father commanded, but even so... be careful."
It is true, then. Arianne wanted to ask after her brother, but her father had urged her to watch every word. If these ships had not brought Quentyn home again with his dragon queen, best not to mention him. Only her father and a few of his most trusted men knew about her brother's mission to Slaver's Bay. Lady Toland and her daughters were not amongst them. If it were Quentyn, he would have brought Daenerys back to Dorne, surely. Why would he risk a landing on Cape Wrath, amongst the stormlords?
"Is Dorne at risk?" Lady Nymella asked. "I confess, each time I see a strange sail my heart leaps to my throat. What if these ships turn south? The best part of the Toland strength is with Lord Yronwood in the Boneway. Who will defend Ghost Hill if these strangers land upon our shores? Should I call my men home?"
"Your men are needed where they are, my lady," Daemon Sand assured her. Arianne was quick to nod. Any other counsel could well lead to Lord Yronwood's host unravelling like an old tapestry as each man rushed home to defend his own lands against supposed enemies who might or might not ever come. "Once we know beyond a doubt whether these be friends or foes, my father will know what to do," the princess said.
It was then that pasty, pudgy Teora raised her eyes from the creamcakes on her plate. "It is dragons."
"Dragons?" said her mother. "Teora, don't be mad."
"I'm not. They're coming."
"How could you possibly know that?" her sister asked, with a note of scorn in her voice. "One of your little dreams?"
Teora gave a tiny nod, chin trembling. "They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died."
"Seven save us." Lady Nymella gave an exasperated sigh.
"If you did not eat so many creamcakes you would not have such dreams. Rich foods are not for girls your age, when your humors are so unbalanced. Maester Toman says -- "
"I hate Maester Toman," Teora said. Then she bolted from the table, leaving her lady mother to make apologies for her.
"Be gentle with her, my lady," Arianne said. "I remember when I was her age. My father despaired of me, I'm sure."
"I can attest to that." Ser Daemon took a sip of wine and said, "House Toland has a dragon on its banners."
"A dragon eating its own tail, aye," Valena said. "From the days of Aegon's Conquest. He did not conquer here. Elsewhere he burned his foes, him and his sisters, but here we melted away before them, leaving only stone and sand for them to burn. And round and round the dragons went, snapping at their tails for want of any other food, till they were tied in knots."
"Our forebears played their part in that," Lady Nymella said proudly. "Bold deeds were done, and brave men died. All of it was written down by the maesters who served us. We have books, if my princess would like to know more."
"Some other time, perhaps," said Arianne.
As Ghost Hill slept that night, the princess donned a hooded cloak against the chill and and walked the castle battlements to clear her thoughts. Daemon Sand found her leaning on a parapet and gazing out to sea, where the moon was dancing on the water. "Princess," he said. "You ought to be abed."
"I could say the same of you." Arianne turned to gaze upon his face. A good face, she decided. The boy I knew has become a handsome man. His eyes were as blue as a desert sky, his hair the light brown of the sands they had just crossed. A close-cropped beard followed the thin of a strong jaw, but could not quite hide the dimples when he smiled. I always loved his smile.
The Bastard of Godsgrace was one of Dorne's finest swords as well, as might be expected from one who had been Prince Oberyn's squire and had received his knighthood from the Red Viper himself. Some said that he had been her uncle's lover too, though seldom to his face. Arianne did not know the truth of that. He had been her lover, though. At fourteen she had given him her maidenhead. Daemon had not been much older, so their couplings had been as clumsy as they were ardent. Still, it had been sweet.
Arianne gave him her most seductive smile. "We might share a bed together."
Ser Daemon's face was stone. "Have you forgotten, princess? I am bastard born." He took her hand in his. "If I am unworthy of this hand, how can I be worthy of your cunt?"
She snatched her hand away. "You deserve a slap for that."
"My face is yours. Do what you will."
"What I will you will not, it seems. So be it. Talk with me instead. Could this truly be Prince Aegon?"
"Gregor Clegane ripped Aegon out of Elia's arms and smashed his head against a wall," Ser Daemon said. "If Lord Connington's prince has a crushed skull, I will believe that Aegon Targaryen has returned from the grave. Elsewise, no. This is some feigned boy, no more. A sellsword's ploy to win support."
My father fears the same. "If not, though... if this truly is Jon Connington, if the boy is Rhaegar's son... "
"Are you hoping that he is, or that he's not?"
"I... it would give great joy to my father if Elia's son were still alive. He loved his sister well."
"It was you I asked about, not your father."
So it was. "I was seven when Elia died. They say I held her daughter Rhaenys once, when I was too young to remember. Aegon will be a stranger to me, whether true or false." The princess paused. "We looked for Rhaegar's sister, not his son." Her father had confided in Ser Daemon when he chose him as his daughter's shield; with him at least she could speak freely. "I would sooner it were Quentyn who'd returned."
"Or so you say," said Daemon Sand. "Good night, princess." He bowed to her, and left her standing there.
What did he mean by that? Arianne watched him walk away. What sort of sister would I be, if I did not want my brother back? It was true, she had resented Quentyn for all those years that she had thought their father meant to name him as his heir in place of her, but that had turned out to be just a misunderstanding. She was the heir to Dorne, she had her father's word on that. Quentyn would have his dragon queen, Daenerys.
In Sunspear hung a portrait of the Princess Daenerys who had come to Dorne to marry one of Arianne's forebears. In her younger days Arianne had spent hours gazing at it, back when she was just a pudgy flat-chested girl on the cusp of maidenhood who prayed every night for the gods to make her pretty. A hundred years ago, Daenerys Targaryen came to Dorne to make a peace. Now another comes to make a war, and my brother will be her king and consort. King Quentyn. Why did that sound so silly?
Almost as silly as Quentyn riding on a dragon. Her brother was an earnest boy, well-behaved and dutiful, but dull. And plain, so plain. The gods had given Arianne the beauty she had prayed for, but Quentyn must have prayed for something else. His head was overlarge and sort of square, his hair the color of dried mud. His shoulders slumped as well, and he was too thick about the middle. He looks too much like Father.
"I love my brother," said Arianne, though only the moon could hear her. Though if truth be told, she scarcely knew him. Quentyn had been fostered by Lord Anders of House Yronwood, the Bloodroyal, the son of Lord Ormond Yronwood and grandson of Lord Edgar. In his youth her uncle Oberyn had fought a duel with Edgar, had given him a wound that mortified and killed him. Afterward men called him 'the Red Viper,' and spoke of poison on his blade. The Yronwoods were an ancient house, proud and powerful. Before the coming of the Rhoynar they had been kings over half of Dorne, with domains that dwarfed those of House Martell. Blood feud and rebellion would surely have followed Lord Edgar's death, had not her father acted at once. The Red Viper went to Oldtown, thence across to the narrow sea to Lys, though none dared call it exile. And in due time, Quentyn was given to Lord Anders to foster as a sign of trust. That helped to heal the breach between Sunspear and the Yronwoods, but it had opened new ones between Quentyn and the Sand Snakes... and Arianne had always been closer to her cousins than to her distant brother.
"We are still the same blood, though," she whispered. "Of course I want my brother home. I do." The wind off the sea was raising gooseprickles all up and down her arms. Arianne pulled her cloak about herself, and went off to seek her bed.
Their ship was called the Peregrine. They sailed upon the morning tide. The gods were good to them, the sea calm. Even with good winds, the crossing took a day and a night. Jayne Ladybright grew greensick and spent most of the voyage spewing, which Elia Sand seemed to find hilarious. "Someone needs to spank that child," Joss Hood was heard to say... but Elia was amongst those who heard him say it.
"I am almost a woman grown, ser," she responded haughtily. "I'll let you spank me, though... but first you'll need to tilt with me, and knock me off my horse."
"We are on a ship, and without horses," Joss replied.
"And ladies do not joust," insisted Ser Garibald Shells, a far more serious and proper young man than his companion.
"I do. I'm Lady Lance."
Arianne had heard enough. "You may be a lance, but you are no lady. Go below and stay there till we reach land."
Elsewise the crossing was uneventful. At dusk they spied a galley in the distance, her oars rising and falling against the evening stars, but she was moving away from them, and soon dwindled and was gone. Arianne played a game of cyvasse with Ser Daemon, and another one with Garibald Shells, and somehow managed to lose both. Ser Garibald was kind enough to say that she played a gallant game, but Daemon mocked her. "You have other pieces beside the dragon, princess. Try moving them sometime."
"I like the dragon." She wanted to slap the smile off his face. Or kiss it off, perhaps. The man was as smug as he was comely. Of all the knights in Dorne, why did my father chose this one to be my shield? He knows our history. "It is just a game. Tell me of Prince Viserys."
"The Beggar King?" Ser Daemon seemed surprised.
"Everyone says that Prince Rhaegar was beautiful. Was Viserys beautiful as well?"
"I suppose. He was Targaryen. I never saw the man."
The secret pact that Prince Doran had made all those years called for Arianne to be wed to Prince Viserys, not Quentyn to Daenerys. It had all come undone on the Dothraki sea, when he was murdered. Crowned with a pot of molten gold. "He was killed by a Dothraki khal," said Arianne. "The dragon queen's own husband."
"So I've heard. What of it?"
"Just... why did Daenerys let it happen? Viserys was her brother. All that remained of her own blood."
"The Dothraki are a savage folk. Who can know why they kill? Perhaps Viserys wiped his arse with the wrong hand."
Perhaps, thought Arianne, or perhaps Daenerys realized that once her brother was crowned and wed to me, she would be doomed to spend the rest of her life sleeping in a tent and smelling like a horse. "She is the Mad King's daughter," the princess said. "How do we do know -- "
"We cannot know," Ser Daemon said. "We can only hope."


http://georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html

[Kraftwerk]

Just finished Dance with Dragons. I liked it, and I liked AFFC. I like them all, but Storm of Swords the most. I can now finally read this thread in its entirety without being spoiled.

Although not reading any Winds of Winter chapters til it comes out in full.

[Kraftwerk]

My prediction for GoT TV show, based on Baelor (S01e09) and Blackwater (S02e09) :

Red Wedding takes up half of Episode 9 in S03. Then Ep10 sets up where Arya/hound buddy flick goes, a bit of Jaime/Brienne, and basically the same way Ep10 was in S02.

Very pissed the TV series butchered events in Harrenhall up to this point. They could've handled it much better. They can still salvage it somewhat in S03 I hope.

[Krysttal]

also if you dont think Book 3 is the best of the current 5, id love to hear which one is your favorite. 4 outta 5 dentists agree that book 3 is the best ;)

Well. I can tell you right now its NOT Book 4...

Book 3 was good. I did enjoy it.

BUt I will tell you. I love Arya. She is a different, and unique female character, probably the most unique one I have ever read. I really enjoy her chapters. I find myself when I read the book series now really only looking forward to reading only hers and Jons chapters. While I do like the others, and enjoy reading them, they dont quite grab me like hers.

With that said. I think book 1 was my favorite.

When I first started reading GoT back, WAY BACK, the big fantasy series was the WoT... a series that I had read, but was not in love with..

So when I read GoT, and it changed my view on fantasy, it has some surprises and plot twists that I was not expecting.

I did really enjoy DoD to.... It has some things I was not expecting either. Arya's character is really developing, and so is Jons, both characters had some interesting surprises happen to.

where book 3 was good.... I felt Martin used it as a good building block. Something to help explain the world and to give detail to some of his characters. I have nothing bad to say about any of the books except book 4, because i thoroughly enjoyed reading them all.

[Sirken]

My prediction for GoT TV show, based on Baelor (S01e09) and Blackwater (S02e09) :

Red Wedding takes up half of Episode 9 in S03. Then Ep10 sets up where Arya/hound buddy flick goes, a bit of Jaime/Brienne, and basically the same way Ep10 was in S02.

Very pissed the TV series butchered events in Harrenhall up to this point. They could've handled it much better. They can still salvage it somewhat in S03 I hope.

i 100% agree with you on how Season 3 will end.

Harrenhall can be... well.. the meat and potatoes can still be saved from that story. they absolutely annihilated Dany's story since season 2 started.

and Bran was supposed to meet Mira and Jojen before they fled winterfell, so idk

[Sirken]

Well. I can tell you right now its NOT Book 4...
Book 3 was good. I did enjoy it.
BUt I will tell you. I love Arya. She is a different, and unique female character, probably the most unique one I have ever read. I really enjoy her chapters. I find myself when I read the book series now really only looking forward to reading only hers and Jons chapters. While I do like the others, and enjoy reading them, they dont quite grab me like hers.
With that said. I think book 1 was my favorite.
When I first started reading GoT back, WAY BACK, the big fantasy series was the WoT... a series that I had read, but was not in love with..
So when I read GoT, and it changed my view on fantasy, it has some surprises and plot twists that I was not expecting.
I did really enjoy DoD to.... It has some things I was not expecting either. Arya's character is really developing, and so is Jons, both characters had some interesting surprises happen to.
where book 3 was good.... I felt Martin used it as a good building block. Something to help explain the world and to give detail to some of his characters. I have nothing bad to say about any of the books except book 4, because i thoroughly enjoyed reading them all.
Book 4 was honestly my least favorite of the 5. Arya is also GRRM's wife's favorite character. which means if anyone was truly safe, it would be Arya. for me honestly the first book was slow as molasses until the last couple hundred pages. DoD was slow until about page 400. you find "young Griff", Quentin, Jon Connington, and a couple new characters that simply rendered hundreds upon hundreds of pages as useless.
I'm pretty sure Jon will be Azor Azai, and i have a gut wrenching feeling that Arya might be his Nissa Nissa.

hehe, i assure you Book 3 was not intended as a building block. it was intended to be the last book of his epic trilogy. needless to say, mr GRRM messed up.


i honestly dont think he wants to stop writing these books. as i read, i can almost see him dragging his feet and lolly gagging around wasting time, filling pages, just as an artificial build up to something. after 5000 pages we get it.

and if he introduces any new PoV toons, i'm going to punch him in the teeth.

[Slave]

Tyrion Lannister = Miles Vorkosigan.

[Kraftwerk]

i honestly dont think he wants to stop writing these books. as i read, i can almost see him dragging his feet and lolly gagging around wasting time, filling pages, just as an artificial build up to something. after 5000 pages we get it.

and if he introduces any new PoV toons, i'm going to punch him in the teeth.

I love these books so don't get me wrong, but if you compiled every description of food in all the books, you'd have like 300 pages alone right there. And 100 pages describing Jon Snow banging Ygritte.

[Kraftwerk]

My prediction for GoT TV show, based on Baelor (S01e09) and Blackwater (S02e09) :

Red Wedding takes up half of Episode 9 in S03. Then Ep10 sets up where Arya/hound buddy flick goes, a bit of Jaime/Brienne, and basically the same way Ep10 was in S02.

Looks like I was right:

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/72790175.html

[Sirken]

Looks like I was right:

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/72790175.html

nice find! and good call!

i thought they would end with the red wedding. but it appears u are correct, the RW will be episode 9. which as u say, means episode 10 will be the tale of BFFs Sandor and Arya. (unless they deviate from the plan)

[Kraftwerk]

I'm rewatching the show now, and Season 2 already has deviations I don't like and only two episodes in. I still enjoy it, I just really hope they don't deviate too much from SoS material, I love that book so much.

[Kraftwerk]

maybe im wrong.

but didnt they fuck up most of the Dany story in season 2? for ex: THEY KILL HER FUCKING HORSE AND 1 BLOODRIDER. both of which she still has in book 5.

not to mention i feel she skipped some cities, and i do not believe Danys dragons were ever stolen

AND they cut the vision Dany has of Rhaegar while in the house of the undying

hmpf

All of this is true, most egregious was the House of Undying being cut to just Drago and throne. No RW reference. Silver dead, Rakharro dead, Xaro killed. Me disappointed but still enjoying it.

[Kraftwerk]

Red Wedding, remember the vision of bloody banquet with a man with a wolfs head. One of my favorite parts of House of Undying.

[Sirken]

wow im dumb. ty.

yea, funny thing, as i was reading about the red wedding, i totally had forgotten Danys vision of it. it wasn't until later when i was researching dreams(neds, green, dragon), prophecies(cersei, dani, Azor Azai, Prince that was Promised), and other similar stuff, that i stumbled upon what dany saw in that house and was like, omg wtf that was the red wedding. which means not everything she saw was from the past. which was, what i, originally thought

[Loli Pops]

I just finished the series last night. The only thing that slightly bugs me is people dying and coming back to life. Yeah yeah I get it, lol i can rez but it seems like a cheap plot device. Death should be more permanent in GRRMs world brews.

Other than that I do love the way things are turning out. Victarion is probably my favorite character right now. When viseron lands in the fighting pits I literally heard a dragon scream while I was reading it that gave me the chills.

I need to go back and read book 3 before the season starts up again. It is clearly the best of the bunch so far.

1 3 6 2 4 is the order of my favorites.

[Loli Pops]

coincedentally a 4chan thread discussing GoT today


File: 1359460038781.jpg-(172 KB, 1024x576, Kit-Harington-Jon-Snow.jpg)
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Anonymous (ID: qUzMEv7x) 01/29/13(Tue)06:47:18 No.454584501
Replies: >>454588942 >>454589371 >>454592152

Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. "For the Watch." He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it."

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)09:30:06 No.454603024
Replies: >>454603168

>>454602746
Essos.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)09:31:28 No.454603168

>>454603024
Maybe, I think it's the key to the whole story. I heard that some of them goes to thepiratebay though http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7363439/Sibel_Kekilli_-_Prostitute_Shae_from_Game_Of_Thrones_aka_Porn_Ac

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:31:51 No.454603214

>>454601219
its far more likely that the whore in bravos was gerion lannisters wife, not tysha,

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1xE+mnST) 01/29/13(Tue)09:31:58 No.454603221
Replies: >>454603471

So I got a couple of scoops from talking to some of the actors this weekend.

First off, Rory McCann (The Hound) underwent about three weeks of practice for a massive combat scene and basically says it's his favorite scene so far.

Second off, episode 9 is the Red wedding. And is very likely to be where Rory's scene happens.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:32:47 No.454603315
Replies: >>454603696

>>454601307
>implying people never lie or mislead one-another in asoiaf
you're actually blind if you don't see it. its painfully obvious

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)09:34:06 No.454603471
Replies: >>454603701

>>454603221
You don't have to be a genius to guess that season 3 will end at the red wedding, either just before of after Robb/Cath death. It's the cliffhanger of the book if they want to cut it in 2 season

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:34:16 No.454603495

>>454602406
except that its stated MULTIPLE TIMES in book one that robb is older than jon.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)09:36:06 No.454603696

>>454603315
You're a dumbfuck for trying to find it.
This is something GRRM has done before in his other works.
Just sit back and see. GRRM is not a very talented writer when it comes to words, but he isn't a cheap writer either.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1xE+mnST) 01/29/13(Tue)09:36:07 No.454603701
Replies: >>454603928 >>454604045 >>454604353

>>454603471
It's a ten episode season. Episode nine is the Red Wedding. Episode ten is more like a teaser/lead on into series four.

It was always suspected but it was actually confirmed (albeit unofficially, so you'll have to take my word for it as I don't want to get said actor into trouble).

>>
Anonymous (ID: PBWQusrb) 01/29/13(Tue)09:38:03 No.454603928

>>454603701

Episode 9 has always been the "shit goes down" episode. Season 1 was Ned. Season 2 was Stannis's invasion.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:39:06 No.454604045

>>454603701
my guess is episode 10 will be the reveal that arya isnt actually dead, her leaving sandor to die in the woods. and the episode will end with her giving the coin to the bravoosi ship captain, and then the final scene in the season will be dondarrion finding catelyns corpse.

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)09:40:23 No.454604195
File: 1359470423899.jpg-(158 KB, 1000x1250, stannis.jpg)
158 KB

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Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)09:41:56 No.454604353

>>454603701
Well, it will end at the red wedding its 100% certain, they can't cut it another way. With what you said, I could guess robb and cat death will be in season 3, if its the case, they just can't end the season with that scene, because they will lose a lot of watcher. So a 10th episode to introduce the next events is a good choice. They either end before the death scene, or slightly after, but not on it.
>>
Anonymous (ID: SFmPUxnF) 01/29/13(Tue)06:57:39 No.454585576
Replies: >>454585712

you're a faggot, although i've read it till the then. i hope you burn in hell

>>
Anonymous (ID: mOGlyOku) 01/29/13(Tue)06:58:50 No.454585712

>>454585576
Why did you bump this thread?

>>
Anonymous (ID: Agyp8i2U) 01/29/13(Tue)07:00:26 No.454585865
Replies: >>454586008

You're a fucking ****** jew faggot, why would u spoil it for ppl who haven't read it yet? Everybody besides aryabdies at some point. But ur a dick anyways

>>
Anonymous (ID: +wADXacZ) 01/29/13(Tue)07:00:48 No.454585896
Replies: >>454586008 >>454586143 >>454586269 >>454588415 >>454592509

It's not a sure thing he's dead, though. Stabbed in the back (lol) yeah, wounded, yeah, dead? Not positive.

>>
Anonymous (ID: mOGlyOku) 01/29/13(Tue)07:01:49 No.454586008

>>454585896
>>454585865
STAHP!!!!

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:03:07 No.454586143

>>454585896

This. It happens a few times through the books, and so it can't be considered a spoiler.

>>
Anonymous (ID: PBWQusrb) 01/29/13(Tue)07:04:13 No.454586269
Replies: >>454593210

>>454585896

Yeah, just like Robb and Ned. GRRM *never* kills off a popular character for real.

>>
Anonymous (ID: vNmm5k1W) 01/29/13(Tue)07:04:32 No.454586316
File: 1359461072113.jpg-(84 KB, 355x800, greywolf.jpg)
84 KB

I thought this was gonna be some hot fanfic you faggot.

>>
Anonymous (ID: zV+lGExH) 01/29/13(Tue)07:05:07 No.454586372
File: 1359461107125.jpg-(122 KB, 799x618, a796727.jpg)
122 KB

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)07:06:38 No.454586526
Replies: >>454586918
File: 1359461198224.jpg-(45 KB, 576x576, trollface.jpg)
45 KB

>mfw Jon Snow, The Hound, Joffrey Baratheon, Catelyn Stark, Rob Stark, Jeor Mormont and Lysa Tulley all die.

Also, fuck the Starks. They deserve to die for being so stupid.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 9K9fkVxU) 01/29/13(Tue)07:07:44 No.454586640
Replies: >>454588440

could care less what happens to any of the lesser characters like jon.

its all about bran and daenerys. uguu.

>>
Anonymous (ID: J7yojUev) 01/29/13(Tue)07:08:24 No.454586737
Replies: >>454586923 >>454587147 >>454590812

He isn't dead. GRRM cuts off the heads of dead people, but even that isn't 100% reliable, e.g. Mountain.

The Red bitch will save Snow. Or Ghost will. But Snow isn't dead, there wouldn't be a cliff hanger if Snow was dead.

>>
Anonymous (ID: J7yojUev) 01/29/13(Tue)07:09:43 No.454586918
Replies: >>454587228 >>454592263
File: 1359461383730.jpg-(10 KB, 228x251, Strawberry Cat.jpg)
10 KB

>>454586526
The Hound isn't dead, wtf you talking about?

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)07:09:48 No.454586923
Replies: >>454587112

>>454586737

This is true, Red Priests have the power to resurrect people... But IMO, Jon should stay dead because he's clearly too much of an idiot to play the Game of Thrones.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:11:11 No.454587112
Replies: >>454587824

>>454586923

>implying Jon will get involved with the game of thrones
>not becoming some kind of medieval duke nukem against the wights

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1WAA/6H+) 01/29/13(Tue)07:11:27 No.454587147
Replies: >>454587876

>>454586737
yeah i agree, it would have been the centerpiece of the book if jon had died.
I just groaned at the end of DWD because I knew he would be brought back to life.

Also, Daenerys should stop with the angst and fucking rape and pillage everything.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Agyp8i2U) 01/29/13(Tue)07:12:06 No.454587228
Replies: >>454587306 >>454587876 >>454588124 >>454589836

>>454586918
Yeah he is arya kills him

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:13:03 No.454587306

>>454587228

More like just lets him die. Arya is fucking badass

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)07:17:55 No.454587824
Replies: >>454588215

>>454587112

Stannis Baratheon had offered him Winterfell. He died because he went to go fight with the bastard Bolton boy who had taken over Winterfell, breaking the laws of the Night's Watch.

>>
Anonymous (ID: J7yojUev) 01/29/13(Tue)07:18:27 No.454587876
Replies: >>454588124 >>454588364 >>454594418
File: 1359461907297.jpg-(137 KB, 640x960, Get Well Deer.jpg)
137 KB

>>454587147
Book 7 before D gets her shit together I reckon. Still got loldrama with the Iron Fleet to get through.

>>454587228
No she didn't, she walked away. The Hound is alive and well hoeing turnips in that monastery in the river.

>>
Anonymous (ID: JN6mnU7z) 01/29/13(Tue)07:20:46 No.454588124

>>454587228
>>454587876
Aye hes right hes the hooded worker with a limp in the monastery when brienne goes there

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:21:48 No.454588215
Replies: >>454588537 >>454588617 >>454589018 >>454591270

>>454587824

True enough. But look at Catelyn, he'll be back and will just be out for revenge. Maybe even against the Night's Watch. Who knows, that's what makes them interesting.

Also, Coldhands is Benjen Stark right? One of the many loose ends but I don't think it's confirmed in any of the books yet

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:23:09 No.454588364
Replies: >>454590014

>>454587876

oh snap you're right. I think.

Fuck it, I'm going to re-read them all.

>>
Anonymous (ID: OfdFl04F) 01/29/13(Tue)07:23:37 No.454588415
Replies: >>454588617 >>454589018 >>454592509

>>454585896

he was stabbed multiple times,
if Jon Snow survives this GRR Martin is just a cheap fuck and his next book not worth reading

>>
Anonymous (ID: 8Zf0/YuC) 01/29/13(Tue)07:23:52 No.454588440

>>454586640

you mean couldn't care less. If you COULD care less, then you care to a degree above zero. thus you care. if you couldn't care less then your caring is at zero. thus could not be lower.

how do you amerifats not get this?

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)07:24:55 No.454588537
Replies: >>454588665

>>454588215

Yes, I am definitely thinking Coldhands is Benjen Stark. He disappeared in book one and was never seen again, then this guy shows up out of nowhere to help Bran.

>>
Anonymous (ID: JN6mnU7z) 01/29/13(Tue)07:25:46 No.454588617
Replies: >>454589028

>>454588415
He'l survive it, jon is Azhor Azhai

>>454588215
We genuinely dunno who coldhands is, def an undead/a black brother, i reckon most likely the nights king

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:26:19 No.454588665
Replies: >>454588950

>>454588537

It was when he was helping Sam that I started to think it was Benjen. Randomly helping Night's Watch, doesn't seem a popular thing to be doing

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)07:29:12 No.454588942

>>454584501 (OP)
lol, OP is a dick. I've read it, but still... hope anyone midway through the series doesn't stumble across this. Also, this was *another* one of the many moments in this series where I just wanted to throw the book across the room and rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Always picked the book back up though.

>>
Anonymous (ID: JN6mnU7z) 01/29/13(Tue)07:29:23 No.454588950
Replies: >>454589193 >>454589524

>>454588665
Why would he not reveal himself to bran then? and why would bran not recognise his voice?

>>
Anonymous (ID: J7yojUev) 01/29/13(Tue)07:29:59 No.454589018
Replies: >>454589156

>>454588215
Yes, Benjen Stark is Coldhands.

>>454588415
Jon will come back as a 1/2 lava monster. GRRM has already foreshadowed this with the Iron Fleet guy and his stone hand.

Either that or he becomes Ghost, again foreshadowed with Mormont in the Crow and more directly with the Wildlings.

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)07:30:05 No.454589028
Replies: >>454589409 >>454589617 >>454589692

>>454588617
What makes you think Jon is Azhor Azhai?

I get the conspiracy he's the bastard son of Rhaeger and Ned's sister, but beyond that, what is there to suggest?

I'm thinking everyone has it wrong and it's Danaerys. She is the blood of the dragon, cannot be harmed by fire and resurrected 3 dragons. If she manages to reclaim Westeros, she stands the best chance against the Others

>>
Anonymous (ID: 67+EcJAk) 01/29/13(Tue)07:31:15 No.454589156

>>454589018
And the part with melissandre seeing jon as a human then a wolf and then a human again

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:31:42 No.454589193
Replies: >>454589524 >>454589617

>>454588950

Why would he have helped Bran in the first place?

I think he does recognise his voice eventually, it's just that Coldhands always has a scarf around his face/mouth

>>
Anonymous (ID: C2rTPMJo) 01/29/13(Tue)07:33:26 No.454589371

>>454584501 (OP)
Sounds like an abortion

>>
Anonymous (ID: 9K9fkVxU) 01/29/13(Tue)07:33:47 No.454589409
Replies: >>454589549 >>454589616

>>454589028
spoiler: its Jon and Daenerys' future child that is the reincarnation of Azor Ahai

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)07:35:02 No.454589524
Replies: >>454589734

>>454589193
>>454588950

Bran would have been very, very young when he last saw Benjen Stark. He probably doesn't remember. I'm pretty sure Jon and Robb were only 14 when they last saw him.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:35:17 No.454589549
Replies: >>454590232

>>454589409

Wait what? No, you've gone too far down the rabbit hole there.

I could see Jon being Azor reborn rather than Stannis.

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)07:36:00 No.454589616

>>454589409

> Implying that Jon survived being stabbed multiple times.

>>
Anonymous (ID: JN6mnU7z) 01/29/13(Tue)07:36:01 No.454589617

>>454589028
Various prophecys, and other things that i cba listing, google it

>>454589193
Because hes a black brother, an undead who's kept his mind and memories, probably by the magic of the children of the forest and it wouldnt be hard after that to convince him to get bran and help him to get to them

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)07:36:12 No.454589631
Replies: >>454589952 >>454590034

“It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.”
--Melisandre, SoS, pg. 289

Stannis was marching south into peril, the king who carried the fate of the world upon his
shoulders, Azor Ahai reborn. Surely R’hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him. Show
me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument.
The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His
long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a
shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain.
> Melisandre's chapter in DwD

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children.
>night gathers
>DARKNESS GATHERS

Wun Wun did not hear or did not understand. The giant was bleeding himself, with sword cuts
on his belly and his arm. He swung the dead knight against the grey stone of the tower, again and again
and again, until the man’s head was red and pulpy as a summer melon. The knight’s cloak flapped in the
cold air. Of white wool it had been, bordered in cloth-of-silver and patterned with blue stars. Blood and
bone were flying everywhere.
>patterned with blue STARS,
>When the red star bleeds

Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. “For the Watch.” He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it.
>tears
>SALT

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking.
>SMOKE

>implying jon isnt moments away from being reborn as azor ahai

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)07:36:46 No.454589692
Replies: >>454590357 >>454590956

>>454589028
dammit... been too long since i've read the series. need to reread to catch up on shit.

when's the next book release?

>>
Anonymous (ID: sYaw4t8M) 01/29/13(Tue)07:36:51 No.454589703

he comes back as one of those dead faggots like coldhands

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:37:06 No.454589734
Replies: >>454590341

>>454589524

I think in the first book (halfway through reading them all again) Jon is 14 and Robb is 16 at the feast when Robert visits Winterfell, Benjen is there too. And Bran is 9? Old enough I'd say

>>
Anonymous (ID: EM7SBuPn) 01/29/13(Tue)07:38:13 No.454589836
Replies: >>454590096

>>454587228
the hound is dead...sandor clegane is not

>>
Anonymous (ID: coW7xcfQ) 01/29/13(Tue)07:39:01 No.454589923

Snow can't die tard

Because the entire Night Watch arc will fall apart if he dies since there are no other people that matter still live in the north

I could've believed that he may die if Samwell is still around the north, but he's not.

Both Daenerys and Jon are the two characters that are irreplacable for the moment

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)07:39:21 No.454589952

>>454589631
pretty well played, sir. interesting.

>>
Anonymous (ID: BzTn0CBH) 01/29/13(Tue)07:39:32 No.454589976
File: 1359463172331.jpg-(20 KB, 239x246, Arya Stark Stock Photo.jpg)
20 KB

Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn. Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near.

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)07:40:00 No.454590014
Replies: >>454590283

>>454588364
His brother is dead.

He's totally not Frankensteined into a knight who has taken a "vow of silence," never removes his helm and is never seen to eat.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)07:40:14 No.454590034
Replies: >>454590471 >>454590525 >>454593406

>>454589631
also victarion.
Come sunset, as the sea turned black as ink
>darkness gathers, salt
and the swollen sun tinted the sky a deep and
bloody red,
>bleeding star
Victarion came back on deck. He was naked from the waist up, his left arm blood to the
elbow. As his crew gathered, whispering and trading glances, he raised a charred and blackened hand.
Wisps of dark smoke rose from his fingers as he pointed at the maester.
>smoke


victarion, danaerys, and jon have all been reborn amidst salt and smoke, under a bleeing star. all 3 of them meet the criteria.
azor ahai reborn, the prince that was promised and the last hero are 3 different names for the same prophecy. victarion, dany, and jon are 3 different facets of the same hero. together they comprise worshipers of all 4 of the major religions in the world. they will form a triumverate and defeat the others together. you know it to be true

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:40:47 No.454590096

>>454589836

Didn't the Hound's helmet get stolen by one of the Brotherhood Without Banners?

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)07:42:22 No.454590232
Replies: >>454590406 >>454593867

>>454589549
Stannis is definitely not the guy.

1) Stannis' sword didn't give off any heat
2) He's a fucking Baratheon, and the Targeryen blood in their veins is so thin it might as well be water
3) When the Red Lady looks into the fire for Azor Ahai, she sees Jon.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:42:55 No.454590283

>>454590014

I meant Sandor, not Gregor

>>
Anonymous (ID: EllsRIBU) 01/29/13(Tue)07:42:56 No.454590286

Arya's story gives me such a raging brainer.

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)07:43:34 No.454590341
Replies: >>454594265

>>454589734
Wat? Jon is older than Robb, you dumbshit. Ned didn't even meet Catelyn until after the war, and he brought Jon back with him.

>>
Anonymous (ID: J7yojUev) 01/29/13(Tue)07:43:40 No.454590357
Replies: >>454590573
File: 1359463420996.jpg-(48 KB, 604x453, Innocent kid juice.jpg)
48 KB

>>454589692
>when's the next book release?

lol

Before 2020 hopefully. At the current rate, I'm guessing 2015 at the earliest.

I heard that he wanted to get the HBO series up to the end of DWD before working on the next one, but then there are sample chapters on his website already, so who knows?

>>
Anonymous (ID: 0XaiXjoz) 01/29/13(Tue)07:44:03 No.454590406

>>454590232

So what you're saying is.. Hodor is Azor reborn?

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)07:44:43 No.454590471
Replies: >>454590713 >>454591517

>>454590034
Danaerys is obvious. She was reborn out of the fire with three dragons.

Jon Snow could still very much be dead.

Victarion? I don't see the connection. He's some war hungry cunt who wants to root Danaerys and take over Westeros. I don't think Danaerys will have a bar of him.

There is still Rhaeger's son, who is returning to Westeros to reclaim his throne, and has the blood of the dragon in him...

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)07:45:06 No.454590525

>>454590034
i like you.

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)07:45:25 No.454590573

>>454590357
Never fear. He's already outlined the plot of the rest of the series to the producers of the show so when he inevitably dies of old age and football worship the plot won't get retarded beyond what he envisioned.

>>
Anonymous (ID: JN6mnU7z) 01/29/13(Tue)07:46:35 No.454590706
Replies: >>454593016

Presenting the most interesting person in westeros.. its HOWLAD REED! An enigma who contains all the answers

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)07:46:38 No.454590713
Replies: >>454590829 >>454591129

>>454590471
Rhaegor's son is an interesting point. seems a bit obvious though, considering GRRM's style.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Rjxn+vOw) 01/29/13(Tue)07:47:34 No.454590812
Replies: >>454594515

>>454586737
Mountain's head wasn't cut off - the head sent to Donre was only a skull of some dead fucker with a big head. Mountain died of the poison, right? Where did it say Qybyrn cut his head off?

>>
Anonymous (ID: JN6mnU7z) 01/29/13(Tue)07:47:42 No.454590829
Replies: >>454591164

>>454590713
Not if its jon..

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)07:48:50 No.454590956
Replies: >>454592175

>>454589692
>when's the next book release?
when its done.
grrm hasnt said a thing about when it will be ready. so another 2 years at least

its very likely he will die before book 7 is finished

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)07:50:25 No.454591129

>>454590713
Well Danaerys has been pretty obvious since about halfway through book 1, unless something fucked up happens to her. Which it could.

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)07:50:46 No.454591164
Replies: >>454591719 >>454592032

>>454590829
i know, that's what i'm saying. The Prince That Lives would be an obvious answer to the reincarnation debate. and GRRM is never obvious.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 9K9fkVxU) 01/29/13(Tue)07:51:38 No.454591269

>reading through the asoiafwiki
>dragons in this universe are genderless
wat
was hoping for hot dragonsex on hbo :(

>>
Anonymous (ID: fYGcrwXJ) 01/29/13(Tue)07:51:40 No.454591270

>>454588215
Coldhands seems to be way older than Benjen Stark, who was Ned's little brother. How could one (first, but whatever) ranger learn everything about the Others and prophecies and three-eyed crows and whatnot within the two (?) years he's been away? No, Coldhands is more likely the Night King as was said earlier.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)07:54:13 No.454591517
Replies: >>454591619 >>454591719 >>454591767 >>454591859 >>454592047 >>454594256

>>454590471
its already been made painfully obvious that jon is the bastard son of raegar and lyanna. he was born at the tower of joy lot long before eddard and his entourage showed up and killed the 3 kingsguard members who were guarding it (why would the kingsguard be guarding lyanna stark and not protecting thier prince, who was riding off to war?) in ned's dreams he remembers lyanna lying on a bed of roses, in medieval times rose petals were used to attempt to mask the smell of childbirth. ned remembers lyanna asking him to promise her something, but he never says what. its pretty obvious the promise is for him to protect jon from Robert, who would doubtless have jon killed if he knew that the woman he was infatuated with had fallen in love with, and had a child with his sworn enemy.
of the people who were there that day, howland reed is the only one still alive. he is the only one who knows the truth about jon's parents

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)07:55:13 No.454591619
Replies: >>454592085

>>454591517
not long before*
also lyanna obviously died from childbirth. since in eddards dreams he sees her in a pool of blood on the bed

>>
Anonymous (ID: JN6mnU7z) 01/29/13(Tue)07:55:58 No.454591719
Replies: >>454591859 >>454592165

>>454591164
>>454591517

How would it? I would never have known it as a theroy without the internet, and i'm sure a large amount of grrm's readers wont be looking online for theories, it makes sense once you see the evidence behind it but otherwise, only a small amount of readers would reach that conclusion on their own

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)07:56:28 No.454591767

>>454591517
>mind... blown?
must reread.

>>
Anonymous (ID: EEr9l0hl) 01/29/13(Tue)07:57:07 No.454591834

He's not dead unless book #6 says so. Thank god I read them all, OP is still a dick though.

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)07:57:22 No.454591859

>>454591719
right.
>>454591517
>small amount
mfw i'm not included in the small amount

makes sense.

>>
Anonymous (ID: fGyc8KtM) 01/29/13(Tue)07:58:53 No.454592032
Replies: >>454592143

>>454591164

This is true whatever you think is obviously going to happen absolutly never fucking happens

>>
Anonymous (ID: J7yojUev) 01/29/13(Tue)07:59:02 No.454592047
Replies: >>454592551

>>454591517
And possibly Varys, as Ned could have confessed the night before he died.

However Bran will find out through the Heart Tree's collective memory thing.

>>
Anonymous (ID: s0MPfJEg) 01/29/13(Tue)07:59:15 No.454592065
Replies: >>454593016

I've read all the books, but most people tend to spoil the Red Wedding not Jon's supposed death

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)07:59:24 No.454592085

>>454591619
inb4 some Stark-hating "waaah Jon is mary sue" faggot who won't read between the lines

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6KT9kyF6) 01/29/13(Tue)08:00:05 No.454592143
Replies: >>454592313 >>454593016

>>454592032
Dont forget Littlefinger and his fucking sticky mess of webs.

>>
Anonymous (ID: OyfOfoHu) 01/29/13(Tue)08:00:11 No.454592152

>>454584501 (OP)
Finished this book last week so hah fuck you.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:00:18 No.454592165
Replies: >>454592623 >>454592821

>>454591719
Aegon being alive means he is the rightful heir to the throne, not danaerys since despite her being older, hes male. and the targaryens only allow the females to inherit if there are no male heirs.
this makes danaerys less to the story
however, when aegon the conquerer brought dorne into the seven kingdoms, he promised them they could keep thier own laws, and dornish law says the eldest heir inherits the title, regardless of their gender.

danaerys will land in dorne, and take up arms against her nephew, aegon will be dead before the end of book 7, i promise you, it would make no sense for the winner of the story be someone who has only been introduced recently, instead of the character we've been learning about all series long

>>
Anonymous (ID: Wci7WOk9) 01/29/13(Tue)08:00:27 No.454592175

>>454590956
Im kinda thinking that will happen as well, I really hope it doesnt, but there is a good chance it will

>>
Anonymous (ID: XCYW+d0a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:00:27 No.454592176
File: 1359464427375.jpg-(118 KB, 799x618, a95102.jpg)
118 KB

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)08:01:00 No.454592227
File: 1359464460709.gif-(499 KB, 500x282, shae.gif)
499 KB

>>
Anonymous (ID: vNmm5k1W) 01/29/13(Tue)08:01:13 No.454592253
Replies: >>454592412 >>454593016
File: 1359464473049.jpg-(52 KB, 300x400, 86215336_7622659189.jpg)
52 KB

this man will never live long enough to write another book and deep inside you know this.

>>
Anonymous (ID: EEr9l0hl) 01/29/13(Tue)08:01:17 No.454592263
Replies: >>454592353

>>454586918
It is implied that he surivived and joined the monks on the Quiet Isle.

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)08:01:43 No.454592313
Replies: >>454592614 >>454593016

>>454592143
>tfw you know Sansa is going to learn the game from Littlefinger and then outplay him

>>
Anonymous (ID: vNmm5k1W) 01/29/13(Tue)08:02:06 No.454592353
File: 1359464526089.jpg-(145 KB, 535x1200, 1338439086697.jpg)
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>>454592263
yeah I missed that, had to have someone point it out to me.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)08:02:36 No.454592412
File: 1359464556959.png-(1.32 MB, 1196x908, shae1.png)
1.32 MB

>>454592253
That's what im afraid of, that this tard don't live long enough to finish is fucking story

>>
Anonymous (ID: vNmm5k1W) 01/29/13(Tue)08:03:05 No.454592471
File: 1359464585856.jpg-(151 KB, 1468x916, et.jpg)
151 KB

>>
Anonymous (ID: OyfOfoHu) 01/29/13(Tue)08:03:25 No.454592509
Replies: >>454594256

>>454585896
>>454588415
Jon is Azhor Azhai his soul is going to go into ghost that's what the prologue was for and then he'll be resurrected born of salt and fire. Tears are the salt, fire he'll be resurrected in the fashion that Thorros resurrected people. Jons is one of the heads of the dragon because his parents are pretty clearly Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen

>>
Anonymous (ID: fGyc8KtM) 01/29/13(Tue)08:03:30 No.454592523
Replies: >>454592895

Implying that he will finish the whole story by book 7 seriously ****** this was originally meant to be a trilogy can he really wrap up all this shit in only 2 books?

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:03:50 No.454592551
Replies: >>454593026 >>454593924

>>454592047
i think ned stark confessing his greatest secret, a secret that coud put his nephew who he raised as his own son in mortal danger from anyone with aspirations to the iron throne, to a man who he hates, and who is very open about the fact that he should not be trusted, would be quite out of the question for a man as intelligent and cautious as ned stark

>>
Anonymous (ID: vNmm5k1W) 01/29/13(Tue)08:04:02 No.454592570
Replies: >>454592992 >>454593803
File: 1359464642277.jpg-(159 KB, 800x944, LU0oS.jpg)
159 KB

this is my favorite fan art

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)08:04:23 No.454592614

>>454592313
Yes, oh please yes... I sincerely hope this happens. I hate all the Starks, they're the stupidest House in all of Westeros. But I would love to see Sansa exact some cunning revenge. It would be some nice character development for her.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:04:27 No.454592623

>>454592165
less important to the story*

>>
Anonymous (ID: 3QUWgeU4) 01/29/13(Tue)08:05:46 No.454592789
Replies: >>454594256 >>454594940
File: 1359464746273.gif-(173 KB, 555x350, 1255975732270.gif)
173 KB

This theory has been brought up a few times, one more time wont hurt.

It feels out of character for Rhaegar to kidnap lyanna, him being the perfect knight in every single way.
It feels out of character for Eddard Stark to forget his honor and bang some random broad.

Rhaegar Targaryen did not kidnap and rape Lyanna, they elope together and fuck like rabbits.
BANG! War and shit, roberts all ready to fuck some serious shit up. He loved her, so he convinced himself that she was kidnapped.
Lyanna becomes pregnant, gives birth to a son.
Makes Ned promise on her deathbed to keep him safe, which he does at the expense of his honor.

God I hope this is the case, i'm for real getting goosebumps just writing this.

God fucking damnit Ned.
>mfw

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)08:06:05 No.454592821

>>454592165
Dany and Jon will join forces and/or get married too.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)08:06:46 No.454592887
Replies: >>454593362 >>454593714
File: 1359464806332.png-(1.47 MB, 1198x858, shae2.png)
1.47 MB

Jon, Aegon and Daenerys are the 3 Targaryen still alive. But there's Victarion Greyjoy and his horn. And the fact that Tyrion might well kill Aegon

>>
Anonymous (ID: Wci7WOk9) 01/29/13(Tue)08:06:50 No.454592895

>>454592523
Can he really live long enough to write two books?

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)08:07:42 No.454592992

>>454592570
Amazing fucking concept, but how do you make Lena Heady look uglier than she was in Dredd?

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)08:07:53 No.454593016

>>454592313
well... yeah.
>>454592143
true, will be interesting
>>454592065
yes, i accidentally did that once to someone... felt horrible about it.
>>454592253
probably. i am disappoint.
>>454590706
seems likely.

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)08:07:57 No.454593026
Replies: >>454593219 >>454593656

>>454592551
Ned Stark was neither cautious nor intelligent.

Littlefinger had warned him countless times about how treacherous King's Landing was and yet he continued to bumble around and fuck everything up for himself by taking everyone at face value. Trusting Littlefinger, as he was told not to, being merciful to Cersei, trusting Varys... the man deserved to die. What a half wit.

>>
Anonymous (ID: SnF4Tabv) 01/29/13(Tue)08:09:44 No.454593210

>>454586269
yes they still live on in our hearts

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)08:09:48 No.454593219
Replies: >>454593427 >>454593621

>>454593026
He wasn't an idiot, he was just far too rigid in his principles.

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)08:11:01 No.454593362
Replies: >>454593613 >>454596481

>>454592887
>Tyrion might well kill Aegon

wut. has it been that long since i've read the series or am i just too deep into my case of beer... why is this a possibility?

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:11:25 No.454593406

>>454590034
also add to this, the constant repetition of the phrase
>the dragon has three heads
throughout the series.
dany owns 3 dragons, she seeks two husbands to ride them with her.
Azor ahai reborn is 3 people.

>>
Anonymous (ID: z7H+qCEj) 01/29/13(Tue)08:11:41 No.454593427

>>454593219
That is idiocy. He went in to Kings Landing knowing that the previous hand of the King was killed for asking too many questions and the moron STILL went in with zero discretion.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)08:13:23 No.454593613
Replies: >>454593775
File: 1359465203043.png-(953 KB, 1139x800, Untitled.png)
953 KB

>>454593362
Because Aegon knows where whores go and don't want to tell it to Tyrion

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)08:13:30 No.454593621

>>454593219
>far too rigid in his principles
or
>wasn't an idiot

pick one, because the two options you've presented are one in the same.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6KT9kyF6) 01/29/13(Tue)08:13:46 No.454593656

>>454593026
He was a man of honor, not a half wit. He was a military genius, nothing like anyone in King's landing.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Wci7WOk9) 01/29/13(Tue)08:14:18 No.454593714
Replies: >>454593852

>>454592887
What would make you think that? From what I recall, been a while since I last read the books, Tyrion never gave an indication of planning to kill him

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)08:14:50 No.454593775
Replies: >>454593852

>>454593613
lol'd.

still need an answer. Tyrion, from my impression, appeared to side with Aegon.

>>
Anonymous (ID: J7yojUev) 01/29/13(Tue)08:15:04 No.454593803
Replies: >>454597108 >>454598387
File: 1359465304001.jpg-(44 KB, 500x400, Sansa Starkers.jpg)
44 KB

>>454592570
I like this pic.

Anyone have the pic of Maisie Williams posing with the anon's where you can see her tits?

>>
Anonymous (ID: y8bNH5cb) 01/29/13(Tue)08:15:26 No.454593852

>>454593714
>>454593775
these

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:15:31 No.454593867
Replies: >>454594779

>>454590232
>He's a fucking Baratheon, and the Targeryen blood in their veins is so thin it might as well be water
not true at all. stannis's grandmother was rhaelle targaryen, the daughter of aegon V (aegon the unlikely, "egg" from the tales of dunk and egg) who was the grandfather of mad king aerys. which means stanis's father steffon was the mad king's cousin.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1ZgPEiOU) 01/29/13(Tue)08:15:58 No.454593924

>>454592551
>intelligent and cautious
>ned stark
pick one

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)08:16:05 No.454593941

And Daenerys dont give a shit about Jon or Aegon.

Daenerys will end with Victarion Greyjoy, and every teenage fag will rage about that.

You think this story will end nice ? Don't think so

>>
Anonymous (ID: Rjxn+vOw) 01/29/13(Tue)08:18:44 No.454594256
Replies: >>454594741

>>454592789
>>454592509
>>454591517

Is this for real? I never realised, I feel fucking dumb now. I mean, I'm currently reading book one and there,
>Jon and Arya are the only ones who look like Ned in the family

So it comes as more of a shock now. I must pay attention on my "Waiting for Winds of Winter to come out"-re-read of the whole series.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:18:52 No.454594265
Replies: >>454594741

>>454590341
nope. totally wrong.
neds brother brandon and his father were killed by mad king aerys, ned was hastily married to catelyn in his stead, since brandon had been betrothed to her. they had sex on their wedding night, which is when cat got pregnant with robb, the ned hastily rode off to war with robert, and brought jon back with him 2 years later

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)08:20:16 No.454594418

>>454587876
You didn't read carefully then:

Elder brother says:

I covered him with stones to keep the carrion eaters from digging up his flesh, and set his helm atop the cairn to mark his final resting place. That was a grievous error. Some other wayfarer found my marker and claimed it for himself. The man who raped and killed at Saltpans was not Sandor Clegane, though he may be as dangerous.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:21:04 No.454594515
Replies: >>454595000 >>454595026

>>454590812
Robert strong is a frankensteins monster created with the mountain's decapitated corpse. he never removes his helmet, and someone (perhaps ned) has a dream in one of the ealier books about a large knight with blood pouring out of his eyes, when he removes his helmet there is nothing there

>>
Anonymous (ID: J7yojUev) 01/29/13(Tue)08:23:04 No.454594741
Replies: >>454595042 >>454595382 >>454595415 >>454595626

>>454594256
Wow. It's pretty much a given by book 3 and damn near confirmed in DWD. The whole reason for the war was Lyanna rejected Robert in favour of Rhygar. The Mad King was only the excuse they came up with afterwards.

>>454594265
You're dumb. Book one they tell us Jon is older.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)08:23:24 No.454594779

>>454593867
That's correct. House Baratheon is connected to the Targeryens very closely.

>>
Anonymous (ID: oWTYjeKg) 01/29/13(Tue)08:24:50 No.454594940
Replies: >>454595061

>anyone who hasn't read the books yet

You deserve what you get.

>>454592789

No, this makes too much sense. Poor Ned... ;_;

>>
Anonymous (ID: OfdFl04F) 01/29/13(Tue)08:24:54 No.454594949
Replies: >>454596378

if it was classic fantasy tyrion would tame one of the dragons, go/fly backand burn Cercei

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1xE+mnST) 01/29/13(Tue)08:25:23 No.454595000
Replies: >>454595792 >>454595979

>>454594515
A couple of us have got the ongoing horrible suspicion that Robert Strong is actually Gregor's body attached to Joffreys head.

>>
Anonymous (ID: OyfOfoHu) 01/29/13(Tue)08:25:37 No.454595026

>>454594515
Bran has the dream

>>
Anonymous (ID: 8q6k/tZW) 01/29/13(Tue)08:25:39 No.454595031
File: 1359465939838.jpg-(34 KB, 413x395, 1349369571122.jpg)
34 KB

mfw I already read all existing books.

But, it wasn't clear if he died or not. I hope he will survive it somehow.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Rjxn+vOw) 01/29/13(Tue)08:25:47 No.454595042

>>454594741
Ah - there's been so long timespans between me reading the books, I've lost all track of the previous history details it seems, reason for Robert's rebellion too.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 3QUWgeU4) 01/29/13(Tue)08:26:03 No.454595061

>>454594940
I know right?
It really does give me goose bumps,

God I really like these books, might do a re-read sometime soon

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)08:28:44 No.454595382

>>454594741
No, it doesn't say that. Fuck, on pg.15 it says they are just of the same age.It later says that Robb is older in Jon's POV in the hall.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 3QUWgeU4) 01/29/13(Tue)08:29:01 No.454595415

>>454594741
But the king was most certainly mad and his son fucking up a marriage deal by eloping with Lyanna and inciting a civil war did most certainly push him over the edge and it gave everyone an excuse to fuck shit up

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1xE+mnST) 01/29/13(Tue)08:29:58 No.454595529
Replies: >>454598067
File: 1359466198446.jpg-(65 KB, 578x690, BBs-WmMCEAAI3mI.jpg large.jpg)
65 KB

So do you guys think Loras will change his armor/style now that he's all mutilated and shit?

>>
Anonymous (ID: OfdFl04F) 01/29/13(Tue)08:30:20 No.454595583
Replies: >>454596749
File: 1359466220398.jpg-(271 KB, 900x508, lannisternoteven once.jpg)
271 KB

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:30:41 No.454595626
Replies: >>454595865 >>454596104

>>454594741
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow
>Jon has an older half-brother Robb, two younger half-sisters Sansa and Arya, and two younger half-brothers Bran and Rickon.
>older half-brother
>older
go reread book one you pleb.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:32:04 No.454595792
Replies: >>454596081 >>454596274

>>454595000
cersei is the one who rpvides qyburn with his corpses, i find it highly unliekly she would allow him to decapitate the corpse of her favourite son to create an undead monstrosity/

>>
Anonymous (ID: 3QUWgeU4) 01/29/13(Tue)08:32:38 No.454595865
Replies: >>454596901

>>454595626
They were both fourteen in the first book though, doesnt eliminate the fact that one of them is older I suppose. But simply by a few months

>>
Anonymous (ID: 4kg9u1UL) 01/29/13(Tue)08:33:30 No.454595974
File: 1359466410064.jpg-(39 KB, 600x338, 200402081258_lotr_cartoon_07.jpg)
39 KB

Gollum left his cave in search of the ring himself, and the Dark Lord caught him in Mordor. Then Gollum died.

Classic George R.R Martin right there.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 3QUWgeU4) 01/29/13(Tue)08:33:31 No.454595979
File: 1359466411587.png-(14 KB, 412x400, OHGOD.png)
14 KB

>>454595000
My fucking face when this post

Also nice trips.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1xE+mnST) 01/29/13(Tue)08:34:16 No.454596081

>>454595792
I think Cersei would go to any lengths to bring her children back.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)08:34:29 No.454596104

>>454595626
Don't use /lit slang on here.
Besides, those literati fucking foam at the mouth if you bring this series up. They are too deep into their classics and ancient books to appreciate this series.
Plus 1 internets though for looking up information.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)08:35:40 No.454596274

>>454595792
She fucked her brother infront of said corpse.
I don't think she's the kind of stable woman to really care.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:36:23 No.454596378
Replies: >>454596704 >>454597145

>>454594949
>cersei has been haunted by the propphecy made by maggy(maegi) the frog when she was a child all her life.
>the "valonquar" will come to end her life
valonquar means "little brother". and cersei is convinced it means tyrion. which is why she is so paranoid.

>so far every prophecy in the books has come true, but not in the way that it was expected to. GRRM is too good a writer to allow a chance for delicious irony to be missed

>despite being twins, cersei was born first
>jaime is cerseis "little brother"

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)08:37:17 No.454596481

>>454593362
Because Tyrion is a fucking badass, that's why.

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)08:38:56 No.454596704
Replies: >>454597028 >>454597145 >>454597226 >>454597659

>>454596378
I didn't realize the prophecy said so, but I always assumed it would be Jaime who eventually killed her.

He's going to be redeemed by the end of the books, mark my words.

>>
Anonymous (ID: vSgLAnGP) 01/29/13(Tue)08:39:16 No.454596749

>>454595583
That doesnt even make sense

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:40:22 No.454596901

>>454595865
they were both born in 283AL, which makes them both 14 at the time of the first book. but Robb is older, by at least a few months, rob has already been born by the time ned returns to winterfell with the newborn jon

>>
Anonymous (ID: 9K9fkVxU) 01/29/13(Tue)08:41:06 No.454597028

>>454596704
>He's going to be redeemed by the end of the books, mark my words.
well duh.
its the entire point of the Brianne story arc

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)08:41:38 No.454597108

>>454593803
Where in the fuck did you find this. It can't be. She honestly can't be that fucking dumb.

>>
Anonymous (ID: vSgLAnGP) 01/29/13(Tue)08:41:53 No.454597145
Replies: >>454597429 >>454597614 >>454597746 >>454598267
File: 1359466913050.jpg-(768 KB, 1476x1039, 1346501705724.jpg)
768 KB

>>454596378
>>454596704
Sandor clegane is Cerseis champion as ser strong. The faith must need a champion now. A champion of faith.
Hmmm who has just conveniently become a monk?

The hound ofcourse! Who is Sandor's Valonquar.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:42:32 No.454597226
Replies: >>454597803

>>454596704
dude. hes already been redeemed, he was redeemed the moment he said "no" and threw cersei's letter into the fire. he lost his hand and stopped being a "sword" and became a real person. he's realized cersei is a toxic bitch, and hes fallen in love with brienne, a woman so ugly he would never have been caught dead with before he lost his hand.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:44:02 No.454597429
Replies: >>454597614

>>454597145
sandor is younger than gregor. but you are right, it is possible that sandor is the valonquar. since maggy the frog didnt specify that it would be CEREI's valonquar who would kill her.

still i think it would be more fitting, and make for better storytelling, if it was jaime, redeeming himself for all his past wrongdoings, who killed her.

>>
Anonymous (ID: vSgLAnGP) 01/29/13(Tue)08:45:25 No.454597614

>>454597429
>>454597145
Whoops mixed up Sandor and Gregor. But still, I make a good point

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1xE+mnST) 01/29/13(Tue)08:45:51 No.454597659
Replies: >>454598291

>>454596704
Tyrion was manipulated and tortured by Tywin.
Jaime was manipulated and tortured by Cersei

Both Jaime and Tyrion are victims of being born into families full of manipulative evil cunts, and both are only just coming to realize just how much their relatives fucked them over.

The thing is I think they're both inevitably fucked because Daenerys is the sort of person who will hunt them down and kill them just because they're Lannisters.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 3QUWgeU4) 01/29/13(Tue)08:46:13 No.454597716

I always read Sandor as Sandro for some reason.
All mediterranean and shit

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)08:46:26 No.454597746
Replies: >>454597960

>>454597145
The Hound is dead.
Elder Brother states, in no uncertain terms that he buried Sandor and covered his corpse with stones. He placed the helm on the marker but someone stole it later on. He even admits that he couldn't save him from the infected wounds.

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)08:46:55 No.454597803

>>454597226
>hes fallen in love with brienne,
Whoa whoa whoa, back the fuck up. When did this happen?

I get that he respects her now, but I don't remember love entering the equation.

>>
Anonymous (ID: vSgLAnGP) 01/29/13(Tue)08:48:01 No.454597960
Replies: >>454598039 >>454598194

>>454597746
>Implying he isn't a gravedigger on the quiet isles.

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)08:48:36 No.454598039
Replies: >>454598491

>>454597960
People don't ever lie in ASOIAF.

>>
Anonymous (ID: OyfOfoHu) 01/29/13(Tue)08:48:49 No.454598067
Replies: >>454598615

>>454595529
I don't even think Loras is injured I think it's fake.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)08:49:48 No.454598194
Replies: >>454598575 >>454598769

>>454597960
You don't have a very good memory, do you?
I covered him with stones to keep the carrion eaters from digging up his flesh, and set his helm atop the cairn to mark his final resting place. That was a grievous error. Some other wayfarer found my marker and claimed it for himself. The man who raped and killed at Saltpans was not Sandor Clegane, though he may be as dangerous.

F.O.C Chapter 31, Brienne's POV

>>
Anonymous (ID: vSgLAnGP) 01/29/13(Tue)08:50:17 No.454598267

>>454597145
My previous comment was not as mindblowing to people as i might have hoped. Sad now.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:50:26 No.454598291

>>454597659
GRRM has a knack for making two characters who are both awesome, hate each-other because of a misunderstanding or unfortunate reasons. tyrion hates jaime because he lied about tysha being a whore, jaime hates tyrion because he thinks he murdered joffrey and tywin (half-true) jon hates tyrion because he thought he was his friend, but was later led to beleive that he had something to do with neds death/the attempt on brans life.

why the fuck cant everyone just get along :( i want at least ONE bro-mance between 2 of my favourite characters

>>
Anonymous (ID: CFR3w5Sc) 01/29/13(Tue)08:51:09 No.454598387

>>454593803
NEED

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)08:51:53 No.454598491
Replies: >>454598575

>>454598039
Wouldn't be fitting of a monk and nor would it explain why the helm was taken by someone else.

Gregor is also dead.

Sandor is a minor character, in any case.

>>
Anonymous (ID: vSgLAnGP) 01/29/13(Tue)08:52:34 No.454598575

>>454598491
>>454598194
>454598194
>>454598194
the gravedigger at the Quiet Island is Sandor, there are numerous several references to it:

1. The gravedigger is a notably big man (like Sandor).

2. The gravedigger is injuried, and his injuries matches those Sandor has recieved.

3. Dog coming up to gravedigger and gravdigger's petting him is a obvious nod at the gravedigger's being Sandor.

4. When Brienne asks the abbot if Sandor is dead, he curiously replies that "he is in peace"; obviously meaning to mislead Brienne into believing that Sandor is dead without lying outright.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1xE+mnST) 01/29/13(Tue)08:52:52 No.454598615

>>454598067
I thought it was stated in the books that he had been hit by burning oil in a battle and it disfigured his face.

>>
Anonymous (ID: liLVBtWa) 01/29/13(Tue)08:53:12 No.454598657

this thread is simply fabulous

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:54:01 No.454598769

>>454598194
>HERPA DERPA DURR I FAIL AT READING BETWEEN THE LINES

>“The Hound is dead, Sandor is at rest.”
>“The man you hunt is dead."
>"The Hound died there, in my arms."
not "the hound is dead", he never said "sandor is dead"

>"I never saw the blow that felled me. Before I could turn something slammed into my head and knocked me back into the river, where by rights I should have drowned. Instead I woke here, upon the Quiet Isle. The Elder Brother told me I had washed up on the tide, naked as my name day. We are all born naked, so I suppose it was only fitting that I come into my second life the same way."
the monks refer to their life on the island as a "second life"

sandors horse is on the island, the elder says he found him with sandor, and brought him to the island, despite the horse being described as viscious and hostile to anyone who isnt sandor

>The Seven have blessed our Elder Brother with healing hands. He has restored many a man to health that even the maesters could not cure, and many a woman too.

>They passed a lichyard where a brother bigger than Brienne was struggling to dig a grave. From the way he moved, it was plain to see that he was lame. As he flung a spadeful of the stony soil over one shoulder, some chanced to spatter against their feet. “Be more watchful there,” chided Brother Narbert. The gravedigger lowered his head. When Dog went to sniff him he dropped his spade and scratched his ear. “A novice,” explained Narbert.

>>
Anonymous (ID: OfdFl04F) 01/29/13(Tue)08:54:08 No.454598785
File: 1359467648807.gif-(437 KB, 500x245, pdsggsda.gif)
437 KB

Peter Dinklage is fucking Maisie Williams !

>>
Anonymous (ID: OyfOfoHu) 01/29/13(Tue)08:54:40 No.454598851
Replies: >>454599226 >>454601625

>>454598491
Gregor is Robert Strong are you that slow?

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)08:54:51 No.454598873

>>454598769
a novice. meaning hes new to the island. also described as bigger than brienne, (brienne is huge), novices wear cowls over their faces, he pats the dog, sandor loves dogs.

>>
Anonymous (ID: OyfOfoHu) 01/29/13(Tue)08:55:23 No.454598942

>>454598615
It was stated but that doesn't mean it's true

>>
Anonymous (ID: vSgLAnGP) 01/29/13(Tue)08:57:49 No.454599226
Replies: >>454599308 >>454599648 >>454599763

>>454598851
>>454598769
SO WE CAN NOW ALL AGREE THAT THE HOUND SHALL BE THE VALONQUAR AND SHALL KILL CERSEI BY KILLING HER CHAMPION.

>>
Anonymous (ID: OyfOfoHu) 01/29/13(Tue)08:58:29 No.454599308

>>454599226
I thought it would be Jaime but now I have my doubts

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)09:01:00 No.454599648

>>454599226
Nope, gotta be Jaime taking her head himself to mark the end of his road to redemption.

He'll die straight away, but that's the ultimate price.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:01:45 No.454599763
Replies: >>454599906

>>454599226
the monks of the island are a separate sect, they don't answer to the high septon. and i dont see why the high septon would pick his champion from some tiny island in buttfuck nowhere. its possible, but i still think it makes far more sense for jaime to be the valonquar. weve already seen his hatred for cersei slowly building ever since he lost his hand. it would be a better story if he did it, and grrm has a knack for writing good stories

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)09:02:49 No.454599906
Replies: >>454600161

>>454599763
I reckon Sandor's going to live out his life in peace in that monastery, and it will be one of the few good ends in the series.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)09:02:56 No.454599924
Replies: >>454600250 >>454600289 >>454600603 >>454600769

Anyone have a link to the 2 leaked chapter of the next book ?

Btw, if you want to predict the future of this story you have to keep in mind that's its not lotr . This story will NOT end nicely.

Jon, Daenerys, Aegon are the 3 heads, but it doesn't matter at all. Aegon will not have Daenerys favors, he's to much beta, not a real man. I don't think Jon will make it too. As I said Victarion + Daenerys is the most probable.

Arya will have to kill someone she loves, either through a faceless man contract or a test.
Sansa will outplay littlefinger that's for sure, but I don't know how her story will evolve.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)09:04:26 No.454600106
Replies: >>454600207 >>454600542

And the hound is dead, dead and dead.

I think it was confirmed by Martin

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:04:51 No.454600161

>>454599906
me too. in fact, i doubt GRRM will ever actually "confirm" in the story that the gravedigger is sandor. its much nicer for us to know he's there, living in peace, without the story explicitly going HAY YOU REMEMBER THAT GRAVDIGGER? LOL THAT WAS SANDOR, CLEVER HUH?

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)09:05:13 No.454600207
Replies: >>454601625

>>454600106
The Hound is dead.

Sandor Clegane isn't.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1xE+mnST) 01/29/13(Tue)09:05:35 No.454600250
Replies: >>454600459

>>454599924
I don't have a link but I did personally here George read one of them, and it's basically just Victarion Greyjoy preparing to invade Daenery's crib from the sea using the dragon horn. That's going to be one of the major battles next book and the first real test for Dany, imho.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:05:54 No.454600289
Replies: >>454601009

>>454599924
>leaked
its posted on GRRM's website and printed in the back of most of the newer versions of dance with dragons you tard

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:07:15 No.454600459
Replies: >>454600837 >>454601480

>>454600250
what? no, that happens in victarions final chapter in dance with dragons. the released chapter from winds of winter is theon tied to a wall, with stannis interrogating him.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:07:53 No.454600542

>>454600106
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/60808-the-gravedigging-hound-complete-analysis/

>>
Anonymous (ID: INle8I1l) 01/29/13(Tue)09:08:09 No.454600574

Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. "For the Lulz." He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it."

>>
Anonymous (ID: OfdFl04F) 01/29/13(Tue)09:08:21 No.454600603

>>454599924
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:09:41 No.454600769

>>454599924
>Jon, Daenerys, Aegon are the 3 heads,
nope, its jon victarion and dany. Aegon will die, since his claim to the throne is stronger than dany's. see>>454590034

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1xE+mnST) 01/29/13(Tue)09:10:12 No.454600837
Replies: >>454601319

>>454600459
No, I went to a book reading and he read a new chapter with Victarion where his fleet is basically outside the port nearest to Dany (can't remember location names, sorry) - nothing major happened but it did make it clear that they're gonna meet and possibly clash in the next book.

That's probably why he chose to read that chapter, because it doesn't really give any meaty information.

Was amazing to hear George read his own story though, it was like listening to your Grandad tell a bedtime story :3

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)09:11:38 No.454601009

>>454600289
you I should have wrote "leaked", or delivered. Go suck your cock tard, don't play with the words here.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 4cVHxMcX) 01/29/13(Tue)09:13:17 No.454601219

Sansa is the "younger, more beauitful queen" in the prophecy to overthrow Cersei."

And after Littlefinger gets all pervy on her, she'll kill him off, too. That woodswitch said that a titan would would be cast down from a mountain (Littlefinger's sigil is the Titan of Braavos).

Tysha was seen in A Feast for rows, the whore who only beds those who marry her.

The ending will be Bran waking up, and thinking to himself, "For the love of fuck, I'm not gonna climb that tower." He'll tell Jon that he is actually the child of L and R (although, isn't he STILL a bastard?) Okay, this one is a joke.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)09:14:03 No.454601307

>>454598575
I already provided the passage above.

He states in Chapter 31, FOC, that he covered the corpse with rocks to keep the carrion birds at bay.

Also, the healer says matter-of-factly that Sandor was beyond the healing of any, due to the infection, that he died quite soon after begging for a mercy killing.

You're just wishing is all. The man is quite dead. You're just like the other people I've talked with who think Ned Stark is still alive -- wishful fucking thinking. GRRM is not that cheap of a writer.

>>implying that the gravedigger might not be another notably large man.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)09:14:16 No.454601319

There are two chapters out from the next book, one involving Victarion im sure. I think >>454600837 is correct, because in the last Victarion is going to Dany, but is not in the bay.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 4cVHxMcX) 01/29/13(Tue)09:15:37 No.454601480

>>454600459

The final Chapter with Victarion in Dance was when he started listening to the Red Priest and was told about how the horn will help him bind dragons/

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)09:17:00 No.454601625

>>454600207
Sandor Clegane is quite dead, Elder Brother already confirmed it in strict words relating to the words ''dead'', ''flesh'', ''beyond my powers of healing'' (relating to the infection).

>>454598851
Yes, I would agree that he is Robert Strong --- but Robert Strong is just an animated corpse. Not living. Are >you< that slow? Fucking kids these days...

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)09:21:07 No.454602082
File: 1359469267820.png-(231 KB, 2000x2000, 1353588917441.png)
231 KB

>>454598769
>>herpa derpa nothing (fucking cancer)
>> wishful thinking.

''KEEP THE CARRION EATERS FROM DIGGING UP HIS FLESH''

And to whom would that flesh belong?
Wishful fucking thinking -- it is exactly what GRRM wants you to do. It's his calling card. You've never read his other stuff, have you?

>>MFW you're little theory will be shattered in the next book because you don't understand what the author loves to do to his readers.

>>
Anonymous (ID: qcIBhG1r) 01/29/13(Tue)09:24:07 No.454602406

>>454596901

Ned got married, impregnated Cat and went to war. While he was gone Cat gave birth, and Ned came back with Jon.
If Jon was Neds son, Robb would be at least slightly older, but since hes probably Lyannas son, he could possibly range from slightly older to slightly younger

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)09:27:26 No.454602746

Anyway.

Does anyone fucking know where whores go ?

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)09:30:06 No.454603024
Replies: >>454603168

>>454602746
Essos.

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)09:31:28 No.454603168

>>454603024
Maybe, I think it's the key to the whole story. I heard that some of them goes to thepiratebay though http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7363439/Sibel_Kekilli_-_Prostitute_Shae_from_Game_Of_Thrones_aka_Porn_Ac

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:31:51 No.454603214

>>454601219
its far more likely that the whore in bravos was gerion lannisters wife, not tysha,

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1xE+mnST) 01/29/13(Tue)09:31:58 No.454603221
Replies: >>454603471

So I got a couple of scoops from talking to some of the actors this weekend.

First off, Rory McCann (The Hound) underwent about three weeks of practice for a massive combat scene and basically says it's his favorite scene so far.

Second off, episode 9 is the Red wedding. And is very likely to be where Rory's scene happens.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:32:47 No.454603315
Replies: >>454603696

>>454601307
>implying people never lie or mislead one-another in asoiaf
you're actually blind if you don't see it. its painfully obvious

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)09:34:06 No.454603471
Replies: >>454603701

>>454603221
You don't have to be a genius to guess that season 3 will end at the red wedding, either just before of after Robb/Cath death. It's the cliffhanger of the book if they want to cut it in 2 season

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:34:16 No.454603495

>>454602406
except that its stated MULTIPLE TIMES in book one that robb is older than jon.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 6CUA3waI) 01/29/13(Tue)09:36:06 No.454603696

>>454603315
You're a dumbfuck for trying to find it.
This is something GRRM has done before in his other works.
Just sit back and see. GRRM is not a very talented writer when it comes to words, but he isn't a cheap writer either.

>>
Anonymous (ID: 1xE+mnST) 01/29/13(Tue)09:36:07 No.454603701
Replies: >>454603928 >>454604045 >>454604353

>>454603471
It's a ten episode season. Episode nine is the Red Wedding. Episode ten is more like a teaser/lead on into series four.

It was always suspected but it was actually confirmed (albeit unofficially, so you'll have to take my word for it as I don't want to get said actor into trouble).

>>
Anonymous (ID: PBWQusrb) 01/29/13(Tue)09:38:03 No.454603928

>>454603701

Episode 9 has always been the "shit goes down" episode. Season 1 was Ned. Season 2 was Stannis's invasion.

>>
Anonymous (ID: DFMNBW9a) 01/29/13(Tue)09:39:06 No.454604045

>>454603701
my guess is episode 10 will be the reveal that arya isnt actually dead, her leaving sandor to die in the woods. and the episode will end with her giving the coin to the bravoosi ship captain, and then the final scene in the season will be dondarrion finding catelyns corpse.

>>
Anonymous (ID: NR+ZJYTN) 01/29/13(Tue)09:40:23 No.454604195
File: 1359470423899.jpg-(158 KB, 1000x1250, stannis.jpg)
158 KB

>>
Anonymous (ID: Gc4ouE88) 01/29/13(Tue)09:41:56 No.454604353

>>454603701
Well, it will end at the red wedding its 100% certain, they can't cut it another way. With what you said, I could guess robb and cat death will be in season 3, if its the case, they just can't end the season with that scene, because they will lose a lot of watcher. So a 10th episode to introduce the next events is a good choice. They either end before the death scene, or slightly after, but not on it.

[Sirken]

I just finished the series last night. The only thing that slightly bugs me is people dying and coming back to life. Yeah yeah I get it, lol i can rez but it seems like a cheap plot device. Death should be more permanent in GRRMs world brews.

Other than that I do love the way things are turning out. Victarion is probably my favorite character right now. When viseron lands in the fighting pits I literally heard a dragon scream while I was reading it that gave me the chills.

I need to go back and read book 3 before the season starts up again. It is clearly the best of the bunch so far.

1 3 6 2 4 is the order of my favorites.

they can be brought back, but it seems its expensive, remember Dondarrion had to give up his own life (what was left of it) to bring back Cat. as far as Gregor, we dont know if Gregor was brought back to life, or, if his body parts were used to create a Frankenstein type monster.

i love Victarion as well, but my favorites are still Tyrion, Baelish, and Arya.

it was Drogon in the fighting pits ;) remember people have referred to Drogon as Balerion reborn.

my order of fav: 3, 2, 1, 5, 4 (that can change, but 3 will stay my fav, and 4 would stay my least fav)

[Slave]

maybe im wrong.

but didnt they fuck up most of the Dany story in season 2? for ex: THEY KILL HER FUCKING HORSE AND 1 BLOODRIDER. both of which she still has in book 5.


Rakharo I believe? He's a tiny character, but HBO fucking infuriates me when they pull meaningless deviations like this. Dany's Silver dies on the trek through the Red Waste.

[Loli Pops]

herp derp i always get characters confused

[Sirken]

herp derp i always get characters confused

haha that happens to the best of us.


heres an interview with Asha/Yara Greyjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7D6mlytxGg

GRRM interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSPFJcxCNM

not sure on dates for videos, they appear to be after S2 and before S3

[Sirken]

Season 3 photos
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/01/game-of-thrones-season-3-photos/

[Eccezan]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I did notice that someone mentioned that Theon may be talking to a ghost in winterfell. Any chance this "ghost" is actually Bran talking through the werewood tree? (Even though the other dude said Bran couldn't communicate both ways?)

Just a theory, I like this thread, ill read the rest of it soon as I can.

[India]

Just a theory, I like this thread, ill read the rest of it soon as I can.

I like this thread too.

I've read all the books and this thread has made me realize that there were and are a ton of things that I didn't take note of, or thought unimportant at the time.

I am now re-reading the books and they're even better the second time around

[Sirken]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I did notice that someone mentioned that Theon may be talking to a ghost in winterfell. Any chance this "ghost" is actually Bran talking through the werewood tree? (Even though the other dude said Bran couldn't communicate both ways?)

Just a theory, I like this thread, ill read the rest of it soon as I can.

its VERY possible, and it can go either way granted. as you mentioned however, we learn that bran cant communicate both ways, but also that what bran sees is not limited to the present. Theon could have spoken to an older Bran. What i mean is that if Ned dies in year 297AL, and by end of book 5 we are in year 299AL, it stands to reason that its possible for an older bran (say in the year 308AL) to have been looking at a past image of theon (which would be the readers present timeline), through the trees. the trees never forget an such. we actually know this is possible because bran sees the image of Ned, Lyanna, and Benjen playing in winterfell.

and on the flip hand we are told way to often, "There must ALWAYS be a stark in winterfell". we are told the crypts are haunted. and we are told that disturbing the swords will disturb the spirits. Bran and Rickon removed swords, there are no more starks in winterfell. Granted the phrase could exist simply because if theres no stark in winterfell, then their family seat and dominion over the north could be ended.




I am now re-reading the books and they're even better the second time around
i 100% know what you mean, i have a couple friends that also felt the same way on the second read through. for example on my first read though i did not notice dany had a vision of the red wedding before it happened while she was in the house of the undying.

[Sirken]

The Wires "McNulty" turned down role of Mance Rayder - http://www.tvrage.com/news/1372/game-of-thrones-season-3-dominic-west-turned-down-role

47 days!

<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1iTg20x7w2s?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1iTg20x7w2s?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[Kraftwerk]

The Wires "McNulty" turned down role of Mance Rayder - http://www.tvrage.com/news/1372/game-of-thrones-season-3-dominic-west-turned-down-role

47 days!

<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1iTg20x7w2s?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1iTg20x7w2s?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

I read that too, kind of wish he had been Mance. I think he could've brought the charm I always pictured Mance having. Ciarin Hinds seems like he might take the role too seriously, Mance isn't a morose character he needs to be playful with his dialogue.

[Sirken]

i dunno, i just dont like it :P

http://static.tvfanatic.com/images/gallery/ciaran-hinds-as-mance-rayder_652x978.jpg

[Slave]

Yara Greyjoy... Jesus Fucking Christ.

[Alovia]

I always pictured Mance a Scottish looking guy. More like a Mel Gibson in brave heart.......the guy who played Mcloud in the first Hilander movie.

[Sirken]

Yara Greyjoy... Jesus Fucking Christ.
is that because they changed her name? or?

I always pictured Mance a Scottish looking guy. More like a Mel Gibson in brave heart.......the guy who played Mcloud in the first Hilander movie.
all i know is that Mance needs a certain roguish playfulness to him.


i was secretly hoping to see this guy casted as Mance, Robert Carlyle
http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/27000000/Rumpelstiltskin-rumpelstiltskin-mr-gold-27041682-1920-2560.jpg

[Kevynne]

HBO BRING BACK SHOW NOW PLZ. CANT WAIT ANY LONGER.

red wedding. that whole part of the book is either going to be done amazing, or fucked up royally. (most likely the first part)

does anyone know if they are splitting SoS into 2 seasons? or just one giant season? or condensing it or what?

[Sirken]

red wedding. that whole part of the book is either going to be done amazing, or fucked up royally. (most likely the first part)

does anyone know if they are splitting SoS into 2 seasons? or just one giant season? or condensing it or what?

the guys at HBO said season 3 is the season they have been waiting for since the show started. they know its everyones favorite book.

that said, the book will be split into two 10 episode seasons.

Season 3, Episode 9 will be the red wedding. Episode 10 will be the hound and Arya getting away from the twins and embarking on their BFF journey, and of course putting a nice lil bow on things til season 4.

theres a link somewhere in this thread you can find to verify the above infos im giving you is true ;)

[gotrocks]

I guarantee they won't fuck up the red wedding, or any part of book three for that matter.

for evidence i simply point to the first two seasons - there was plenty of opportunity to ruin all kinds of shit, and i don't think they fucked a single thing up (that whole scene with dany and the dragons and drogo could *easily* have been a massive fuckup).

These guys know what they are doing, and i dont see them dropping the ball anytime soon. Not only do they have a *massive* budget (they're going to spend more money on this series than probably any other ever created), but they have a fantastic crew. I am really, really excited to see what they do with books 4 and 5 (and even more excited to see what Martin does with the end of the series............................................ .................................................. .................................................. ...... if he finishes it before he dies)

[Sirken]

i agree with you that nobody could do a better job than HBO is doing with GOT.

that said, "fucking it up" really depends on your definition of the term. i dont like quite a few things that they've changed (ie: in season one cutting out cat's actual trip to the vale, Neds dreams, and the horse breaking Neds Leg. in Season two they cut a bunch of the night watch shit before they get to craster's keep. Dany should have conquered two cities, horse doesnt die, blood rider doesnt die, dragons dont get stolen, they cut out her visions of Rhaegar, as well as her vision of robb (post-redwedding).

i know those are little things, and im sure they had great reasons for doing what they did. but some of those bothered me because i just didnt see the point. wtf did anyone gain by killing danys silver? there was no reason for the change imo :(

[Tenlaar]

there was plenty of opportunity to ruin all kinds of shit, and i don't think they fucked a single thing up

I think there were numerous things changed that were a detriment to the story, but primarily, they really sucked something terrible with Arya's storyline. They completely left out a brilliant part of the Battle of Blackwater, Tyrion's chain. The way they did the Jon Snow/Halfhand/Rattleshirt situation. The changes to Robb's storyline.

I will admit I'm a bit of a book purist at this point, but there's a reason. I wouldn't mind changes if they were even close to as good as they were in the books. There are some changes that I'm fine with, and even like. But so many of them are much, much worse than if they had followed the script.

[Kevynne]

the guys at HBO said season 3 is the season they have been waiting for since the show started. they know its everyones favorite book.

that said, the book will be split into two 10 episode seasons.

Season 3, Episode 9 will be the red wedding. Episode 10 will be the hound and Arya getting away from the twins and embarking on their BFF journey, and of course putting a nice lil bow on things til season 4.

theres a link somewhere in this thread you can find to verify the above infos im giving you is true ;)

too lazy to look lol xD
ty sirken!

I WANT TO SEE THE RED WEDDING ALREADY.

[Sirken]

I think there were numerous things changed that were a detriment to the story, but primarily, they really sucked something terrible with Arya's storyline. They completely left out a brilliant part of the Battle of Blackwater, Tyrion's chain. The way they did the Jon Snow/Halfhand/Rattleshirt situation. The changes to Robb's storyline.

I will admit I'm a bit of a book purist at this point, but there's a reason. I wouldn't mind changes if they were even close to as good as they were in the books. There are some changes that I'm fine with, and even like. But so many of them are much, much worse than if they had followed the script.

refresh my memory on the Arya changes (minus a few conversations)? the chain was HUGE, i was sad they left it out, but it really doesnt effect the story if u just blow up all the boats. same with halfhand/jon, i feel the end result would be the same.

what did they change about robb besides his new wifes name and back story?

i can not wait for the QQ that follows season 3 from all the people that dont read the books, omg tears of rage incomming!

[Sirken]

we need a montage to speed this up

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6U_JvFTUCo2Mm7b5m6DLzPjvFj0qMQ B8VROcJc_t54tt-42c4

[Dalven]

I have to agree with Sirkin that I'm disappointed they left out Ned's visions/dreams as well as many of the others. I guess I can see why it would be difficult to put them in properly but the foreshadowing of a lot of them is really cool, particularly the House of the Undying stuff. Although I think it'll be in this series that Dany does her conquering. I also think that that in the 4th series a lot of the ironborn stuff of A Feast for Crows will be included to keep the continuity easy for the show.

I watch this with a friend who hasn't read the books and he was appalled when Ned dies. The anticipation for the Red Wedding is getting unbearable.

[Sirken]

I have to agree with Sirkin that I'm disappointed they left out Ned's visions/dreams as well as many of the others. I guess I can see why it would be difficult to put them in properly but the foreshadowing of a lot of them is really cool, particularly the House of the Undying stuff. Although I think it'll be in this series that Dany does her conquering. I also think that that in the 4th series a lot of the ironborn stuff of A Feast for Crows will be included to keep the continuity easy for the show.

I watch this with a friend who hasn't read the books and he was appalled when Ned dies. The anticipation for the Red Wedding is getting unbearable.

i thinking the dreams would reveal Jon Snows real parents. the Rhaegar vision they SHOULD have showed. i wanted to see Rhaegar =(

Dany already did her conquering. at the end of last season she locked that guy in the vault, stole his shit, and went to buy a ship. thats the ship that takes Dany to Mereen / slaver's bay. i imagine we wont see alot of dany in season 3.

also i dunno if you read back a few pages, but book three is getting cut in half to make Seasons 3 and 4. so it will be tricky to see how they do the iron borns. hopefully they take your advice and do something to keep them in the picture for the show, they didnt play a big part in first half of book 3.

will be fun to see how they film books 4 and 5 since he wrote them like an asshole and they take place simultaneously.

<3

[Dalven]

i thinking the dreams would reveal Jon Snows real parents. the Rhaegar vision they SHOULD have showed. i wanted to see Rhaegar =(

Dany already did her conquering. at the end of last season she locked that guy in the vault, stole his shit, and went to buy a ship. thats the ship that takes Dany to Mereen / slaver's bay. i imagine we wont see alot of dany in season 3.

also i dunno if you read back a few pages, but book three is getting cut in half to make Seasons 3 and 4. so it will be tricky to see how they do the iron borns. hopefully they take your advice and do something to keep them in the picture for the show, they didnt play a big part in first half of book 3.

will be fun to see how they film books 4 and 5 since he wrote them like an asshole and they take place simultaneously.

<3

I guess you're right that Ned's visions could be somewhat too revealing visually, however they provide tantalising hints to Jon's parentage that probably won't be revealed until the final book. Without these if the reveal ends up being what its widely predicted to be it might seem a bit out of left field.

Aye I was aware of the split for seasons 3 and 4 though - what I was thinking was as a lot of the Iron Born stuff chronologically takes place during A Storm of Swords and they will likely use it to beef up the fourth season. Hopefully they just film the 4th and 5th books as if they are one and don't bother with any of the split business - a whole season without Tyrion is unthinkable!

Anyone ever gone through the books one POV at a time? Something I was thinking of doing when I go for this years inevitable reread.

[Tenlaar]

refresh my memory on the Arya changes (minus a few conversations)? the chain was HUGE, i was sad they left it out, but it really doesnt effect the story if u just blow up all the boats. same with halfhand/jon, i feel the end result would be the same.

what did they change about robb besides his new wifes name and back story?


Damn, I keep forgetting about this thread. They changed the entire feel of Arya's story to me. They softened it up drastically for TV and made it like she was just hiding out at any old castle along the road. In the books it was an "if I make the slightest mistake somebody is going to fuck me, cut my throat, and then fuck my new throat hole" kind of place. Completely depraved and unpredictable people all around. She was being beaten on the regular by her taskmaster dude. They took away her kill for the show. There was no feeling that she was in mortal peril the entire time she was there in the show.

I know the chain doesn't make much difference in the outcome, but I loved how it showed his unorthodox brilliance. And yeah, the end is also the same with the Jon/Halfhand sitution, I don't know. It didn't seem like it was given the weight that it should have been. That was a huge moment for Jon.

Now, Robb. Robb, Robb, Robb. The show's version is: Robb meets a spunky little camp healer who don't take no guff from kings. Robb is just overcome with Spunky's dazzling charm and fierce spirit. Then she tells him a horrific story and they bang, cause they's mad in love. Then they get married. This makes Robb a complete and utter dumbass who threw away his only chance of victory for lurve.

In the book: Robb is being cared for in the castle of a minor noble after an injury in battle. When he learns of his brothers being murdered (and his home being destroyed?) he is devastated and takes shelter in the only place available, the arms of the noble's daughter. Afterwards he goes into hardcore Stark mode, and decides that the only honorable thing he can do is marry the girl and deal with the consequences. This makes Robb a complete and utter dumbass who knowingly threw away his only chance of victory to follow his father's code of honor.

They did pretty much the same thing for Cat. She was changed from point of calm stability in a sea of chaos, somebody who thought about the political ramifications of actions and tried to help guide her son, to a wheepy mother who doesn't care about anything but getting her babies back. I know there is that part of Cat that is desperate to get her girls back in the books as well, but it's the only part of her that seemed to make it to the show.

[Sirken]

I guess you're right that Ned's visions could be somewhat too revealing visually, however they provide tantalising hints to Jon's parentage that probably won't be revealed until the final book. Without these if the reveal ends up being what its widely predicted to be it might seem a bit out of left field.

Aye I was aware of the split for seasons 3 and 4 though - what I was thinking was as a lot of the Iron Born stuff chronologically takes place during A Storm of Swords and they will likely use it to beef up the fourth season. Hopefully they just film the 4th and 5th books as if they are one and don't bother with any of the split business - a whole season without Tyrion is unthinkable!

Anyone ever gone through the books one POV at a time? Something I was thinking of doing when I go for this years inevitable reread.

people that only watch the shows will QQ hard when they learn jons parents if the R&L theory turns out to be the truth. Ned sees dying Lyanna in his dreams, if we actually were shown the dream on the show, it would confirm what we all suspect.

i will not watch a season without tyrion. if i had known he wasnt in book 4 i may have not read it lol. and i hope 100% you are right about how they film books 4 and 5. i expect A LOT of traveling to be removed. that seems like their first and favorite thing to cut out of the books for tv adaptation.

ive thought about the PoV thing. but i just havent been able to sit down and do it. would be interesting im sure ;)

[Tenlaar]

I have to say, Cat's hatred of Jon always seemed a little weird given her character in the early books. I can understand how the situation would hurt her, but she just didn't seem the kind of person to have a life long hatred of somebody over something they had nothing to do with.

I saw a brief glimpse of Dany standing in front of the rows of troops in another promo, I got all excited. That scene should be pretty awesome to see played out in live action. My girlfriend has a horrible memory for these massively detailed plots, so we're about to start watching seasons one and two again this weekend to get ready for three. I'm sure I'll come across stuff I've forgotten to talk about.

Oh oh, also, I wish they made Tyrion's face closer to the books! I understand not completely removing his nose and upper lip, but they could have gone a LITTLE closer than just a scar.

[Eccezan]

Cat has been on my shit list since day 1 because of how she treats jon snow. poor robb, never lost a battle, but ... and yes i agree, complete and utter dumbass.

i completely forgot how horrible it was for Arya at harrenhall. i agree i felt they didnt emphasize the importance of THAT particular castle, and you are correct on the show you never really feel shes in any danger at all after Tywin shows up.

theres a new season 3 trailor. it looks like Dany might just get her unsullied in season 3
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oh man i cant fucking wait...you guys watch this one? Cast for season 3...the chick who plays misande(sp) is pretty damn hot, but older than I expected her to be!

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[Sirken]

and you should check out Game of Thrones when you're not to busy talking shit about the server or its staff ;)

[Dalven]

oh man i cant fucking wait...you guys watch this one? Cast for season 3...the chick who plays misande(sp) is pretty damn hot, but older than I expected her to be!

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That cast list video makes me excited - BWB, the Reeds and Brynden Tully at last! I wonder how they will introduce the latter two as The Reeds in particular should have already been pretty established by the end of the second season and Brynden Tully should have been raising hell with Robb since the first season. That dragon in the other preview looks awesom as well.

Damn, I keep forgetting about this thread. They changed the entire feel of Arya's story to me. They softened it up drastically for TV and made it like she was just hiding out at any old castle along the road. In the books it was an "if I make the slightest mistake somebody is going to fuck me, cut my throat, and then fuck my new throat hole" kind of place. Completely depraved and unpredictable people all around. She was being beaten on the regular by her taskmaster dude. They took away her kill for the show. There was no feeling that she was in mortal peril the entire time she was there in the show.

Aye, and I thought the whole making pals with Tywin Lannister was a bit odd as well.

They did pretty much the same thing for Cat. She was changed from point of calm stability in a sea of chaos, somebody who thought about the political ramifications of actions and tried to help guide her son, to a wheepy mother who doesn't care about anything but getting her babies back. I know there is that part of Cat that is desperate to get her girls back in the books as well, but it's the only part of her that seemed to make it to the show.

Yeah the dislike for Jon Snow immediately drops her in the rankings but her obsession with protecting her children is pretty prevalent throughout - and like you said the dislike for Jon stems from that. Like Sirken said the fact that he looks more like Ned than her kids and a constant symbol of betrayal being raised as well as one of her own probably drives the hatred - I'm sure she even says as much in one of her POVs. The drive to protect her children is what motivates all her actions and eventually what drives her into madness and undeath.

How do you guys think they will split Jon's/the Nights Watch storyline over two seasons?

[Sirken]

That cast list video makes me excited - BWB, the Reeds and Brynden Tully at last! I wonder how they will introduce the latter two as The Reeds in particular should have already been pretty established by the end of the second season and Brynden Tully should have been raising hell with Robb since the first season. That dragon in the other preview looks awesom as well.

Aye, and I thought the whole making pals with Tywin Lannister was a bit odd as well.

How do you guys think they will split Jon's/the Nights Watch storyline over two seasons?

forgive me, what is BWB? as far as the Reeds being introduced, i have the same questions. i just about lost my shit after season two because i thought they were gonna cut out the Reed kids. dunno how they are gonna do it on the show.

i liked Arya and Tywin :P


and what do u mean by split Jon and the nights watch in to two seasons? i imagine they'll just use the first half of book 3 (ending Season 3 when Sandor and Arya flee the twins moments after the red wedding has been confirmed).

the bigger concern is book 4, ie: no Jon, no Tyrion, no Dany, no The North

[Dalven]

forgive me, what is BWB? as far as the Reeds being introduced, i have the same questions. i just about lost my shit after season two because i thought they were gonna cut out the Reed kids. dunno how they are gonna do it on the show.

i liked Arya and Tywin :P


and what do u mean by split Jon and the nights watch in to two seasons? i imagine they'll just use the first half of book 3 (ending Season 3 when Sandor and Arya flee the twins moments after the red wedding has been confirmed).

the bigger concern is book 4, ie: no Jon, no Tyrion, no Dany, no The North

BWB = Brotherhood Without Banners, Dondarrion et al.

Lol, I also quite liked the interactions although I can't work out why they changed it from Roose Bolton as he has had very little screen time considering his upcoming part in the Red Wedding.

It just seemed to me that there wasn't a lot going on with Jon as he mostly just hangs about with wildlings, climbs the Wall then bolts back to the NW for the battle with Mance. But thinking about it there's the Lord Commander election as well as Sam's adventures in the snow as well as a ton of stuff going on all over the rest of Westeros so I guess I'm just not thinking it through =P

[Sirken]

I've seen them all, once; they are in no way comparable as pieces of art to the novels in my opinion, and both Breaking Bad and Walking Dead eclipse this series as television drama.

oh, the show about the guy that has had cancer longer than Magic Johnson has had AIDS. And the show that was so incredibly bad that it became the only show in TV history were 100% of the writing staff was fired for sucking after the first season.

Game of Thrones = 2 seasons (20 episodes), 34 Awards won, nominated for 45 others (0.58 episodes per award)

Breaking Bad = 5 seasons (54 episodes), 40 Awards won, nominated for 119 others (1.35 episodes per award)

Walking Dead = 3 seasons (30 episodes), 11 Awards won, nominated for 46 others (2.72 episodes per award)

so actually no. neither show eclipses GoT a television show.

as far as books being better.. the books are ALWAYS better

[Sirken]

BWB = Brotherhood Without Banners, Dondarrion et al.

Lol, I also quite liked the interactions although I can't work out why they changed it from Roose Bolton as he has had very little screen time considering his upcoming part in the Red Wedding.

It just seemed to me that there wasn't a lot going on with Jon as he mostly just hangs about with wildlings, climbs the Wall then bolts back to the NW for the battle with Mance. But thinking about it there's the Lord Commander election as well as Sam's adventures in the snow as well as a ton of stuff going on all over the rest of Westeros so I guess I'm just not thinking it through =P

bah, im a noob, how could i forget the brotherhood. Roose Bolton as well as lord karstark should have had some face time in season 2 to familiarize the viewers with those characters. in the books we treally get to know them in season 2 when Jaime kills their kin before his capture. im with you 100% on Jon and the wildlings thing as well ;)

[ardikus]

I think that Jon could very likely be Azor Ahai if a few of these assumptions are true -

1. Azor Ahai is the same thing as the "Prince that was Promised"

2. Jon is the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, meaning they were wed and had Jon, making him a Targaryen prince.

If Jon is a Targaryen prince, then it's not a huge leap to make him the "Prince that was Promised" because of the repeated phrase "Promise me, Ned" from Lyanna.

So if R+L=J, and PtwP = AA, then Jon = AA.

[Sirken]

I think that Jon could very likely be Azor Ahai if a few of these assumptions are true -

1. Azor Ahai is the same thing as the "Prince that was Promised"

2. Jon is the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, meaning they were wed and had Jon, making him a Targaryen prince.

If Jon is a Targaryen prince, then it's not a huge leap to make him the "Prince that was Promised" because of the repeated phrase "Promise me, Ned" from Lyanna.

So if R+L=J, and PtwP = AA, then Jon = AA.
i like where your head is at.
however, i feel the "promise me ned" is in reference to her saying "promise me you'll take care of my son, ned"

Jon could very very easily be the prince that was promised, as well as one of Dany's dragon riders. but it would also give Jon a better claim to the throne than Dany.

that said, remember the story of Azor Azai - Darkness lay over the world and a hero, Azor Ahai, was chosen to fight against it. To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew before hand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer

who would be jon's Nissa Nissa, if jon was indeed AA? im starting to have a feeling that Stannis is AA, Jon is PtwP, and the 3 dragon riders will be Dany, Jon, Aegon.

4 weeks and 6 hrs from right now my friends :)

[Sirken]

The Dragon always has three heads.

I give you your Targaryens: Daenerys, Tyrion, and Jon.

i use to think that exact same thing buddy, and if Aegon dies, my thinking will revert to it.

but let me ask you, when u give those 3 names, is it because u think Aegon will die? or because you do not think Aegon is good enough to dragon ride?

and do u subscribe to the theory that Tyrion is the son of Joanna Lannister and the Mad King Aerys?

[ardikus]

who would be jon's Nissa Nissa, if jon was indeed AA? im starting to have a feeling that Stannis is AA, Jon is PtwP, and the 3 dragon riders will be Dany, Jon, Aegon.



Some think that the Night's Watch is Lightbringer in a metaphorical sense - I am the sword in the darkness - and this being the case, Ygritte is Jon's Nissa Nissa because her death played a vital role in returning Jon to the Night's Watch, and Jon becoming its Lord Commander.

[Sirken]

Some think that the Night's Watch is Lightbringer in a metaphorical sense - I am the sword in the darkness - and this being the case, Ygritte is Jon's Nissa Nissa because her death played a vital role in returning Jon to the Night's Watch, and Jon becoming its Lord Commander.

i am in fact one of those people ;)

but we know Jon's arrow didnt kill ygritte, so technically, he did not sacrifice her. also she was not the thing he loved the most. if anything, i think Arya would serve as a better nissa nissa to Jon.



and
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20130331T20&p0=64&msg=Game+of+Thrones+Season+3

[Sirken]

Yes, we've been over this. Aegon is the false Targaryen, Mummer's Dragon. And there are multiple lines of evidence that support Tyrion as Joanna+Aerys.

thats fine and i remember,

but that doesnt meant that i personally am convinced on either of those theories yet, i simply admit that if you take a few liberties, it is possible :p

[Dalven]

So some stuff I don't think we've discussed yet that I find interesting...

What's Marwyn's (sp?) stake in this? What do Marwyn/the maesters know about the fall and rise of dragons and its effect on magic?

What about the Faceless Men's agenda? Jaqen isn't taking on faces at the citadel for nothing.

How is Meereen going to play out?

Has anyone read the sample chapters that have been released?

[Sirken]

So some stuff I don't think we've discussed yet that I find interesting...

What's Marwyn's (sp?) stake in this? What do Marwyn/the maesters know about the fall and rise of dragons and its effect on magic?

What about the Faceless Men's agenda? Jaqen isn't taking on faces at the citadel for nothing.

How is Meereen going to play out?

Has anyone read the sample chapters that have been released?

you gotta go back to the first couple pages to get these topics ;)
as far as Marwyn, i believe he will play a role in repairing the Horn of Ice (the horn sam has). what the role will be, im not 100% sure. but Maester Marwyn knows alot about dragons and magic. Marwyn is the one that taught Mirri Maz Durr, and after talking with Sam, Marwyn decides he must go find Dany. i believe the Sams horn, and Dany's horn are the Horn of Ice and the Horn of Fire, and together, they will play the song of ice and fire.

jaqan, i mean the alchemist, i mean new pate, is following someone, or something. i believe he's after the Horn of Ice, or the obsidian candle, or a book. but Horn of Ice, Final Answer.

Mereen.. geez. im hoping to see Dany show up with her newly acquired Khalasar (because u know shes killing that khal, and u know his people will follow her now that her dragons are bigger) and then what do you have? you have Dany with 3 dragons, 8000 unsullied, and who knows how many dothraki. GG

i have read the chapters, theres no super spoiler info other that confirming most peoples beliefs that Ramsey's letter to the wall was mostly BS, stannis isnt dead, Asha doesnt recognize theon, and i believe Theon had Jeyne (fake arya) with him. cant remember if she was in stannis' camp as well.

[Dalven]

Now that you mention it I do remember the discussion on the horns. If I'm not mistaken Marwyn is seen as a black sheep amongst the Maesters, presumably for his study in magic (or his success with it). Good shout on Marwyn and Mirri Maz Duur - I had forgotten that detail. The link between dragons and magic returning seems to be becoming more important - did the Citadel potentially have a role to play in the death of the dragons? I'm sure I read this somewhere although whether if it was on a forum or in books I have no idea.

Jaqen and the Faceless Men's interest is, well... interesting. Particularly if you take into account Braavos is a city founded by escaped Valyrian slaves and the order founded upon that. How do they feel about Dany and the dragons I wonder? Can't be happy.

I agree Dany is going to come back with the Dothraki, I wonder if/when the vision of all the crones in the Dosh Khaleen kneeling will come into play, and how long it will take her to get back to Meereen. The forthcoming battle there is something I'm particularly looking forward to and was disappointed didn't climax in ADWD - there was a huge amount of build up and coming together of characters just for the pay off to come in the next book.

There is also an Arriane chapter floating about now where they seem to be journeying to Aegon and looking for that mysterious Darkstar character.

[Sirken]

The link between dragons and magic returning seems to be becoming more important - did the Citadel potentially have a role to play in the death of the dragons? I'm sure I read this somewhere although whether if it was on a forum or in books I have no idea.
i dont think the citadel would have killed or helped kill the dragons. the dragons were the truest source of magic in the known world. to help destroy them, the citadel would be destroying the source of their own power. the dragons were killed because as they were kept in captivity each generation was a little bit smaller until they were easier to kill, and then "brave men killed all the dragons". as evidenced by the sizes of the dragon skulls in kings landing.

Jaqen and the Faceless Men's interest is, well... interesting. Particularly if you take into account Braavos is a city founded by escaped Valyrian slaves and the order founded upon that. How do they feel about Dany and the dragons I wonder? Can't be happy.
there is a theory floating around that Euron Greyjoy came across a dragon egg on his travels and traded it to the faceless men. so it's possible that could explain how Balon mysteriously fell off a bridge to his death, and of course would give the faceless men a chance to own or re-sell a dragon.

I agree Dany is going to come back with the Dothraki, I wonder if/when the vision of all the crones in the Dosh Khaleen kneeling will come into play, and how long it will take her to get back to Meereen. The forthcoming battle there is something I'm particularly looking forward to and was disappointed didn't climax in ADWD - there was a huge amount of build up and coming together of characters just for the pay off to come in the next book.
100% agree about the battle. luckily GRRM has confirmed that book 6 will start with the two big battles that book 5 was leading up to (ie: battle of Mereen / Slavers Bay, as well as the Stannis vs Bolton for Winterfell battle). I fully expect Dany and Victarion to strike a deal, as he has the one thing she has been looking for for about 5000 pages.... Ships!

There is also an Arriane chapter floating about now where they seem to be journeying to Aegon and looking for that mysterious Darkstar character.
the Martells are the only family not conquered by Aegon the Conqueror. Prince Rhaegar was married to and had two children by Elia Martell. While i havent read that one, it would make sense for the Martells to test those waters. especially since Aegon would have a better claim to the throne than Dany would (ie, Rhaegars kid vs Rhaegars sister). unless Aegon does indeed turn out to be the mummers dragon, which would probably mean the perfumed seneschal = Varys

Quaithe proceeds to deliver another cryptic warning:
"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Pale Mare = the Bloody Flux
the "others" = White Walkers
Kraken = Victarion Greyjoy
Dark Flame = Moqorro
Lion = Tyrion Lannister
Griffin = Jon Connington
Sun's Son = Quentyn Martell
Mummers Dragon = Aegon Targaryen
Remember the Undying = the visions she saw, or, the way she was deceived/tricked
Perfumed Seneschal = Varys

Possible others for the perfumed seneschal =


Reznak mo Reznak - due to his position in Daenerys Targaryen's court and his penchant for wearing lots of perfume.
The Selaesori Qhoran (Fragrant Steward), a trading cog.
Satin the steward to Jon Snow, who wears perfume.

[Sirken]

ugh

2 weeks, 1 day

[Kraftwerk]

Sunday March 31st is going to be one of the greatest days of the year:

Game of Thrones Season 3 Premier
MLB Opening Day

[Sirken]

pfft fawk baseball
(full disclosure, Northside chicago = Cubs)


as far as GoT... i get entirely too excited. i think i pee'd a little when i saw the trailor with Brienne and the Bear

[Kraftwerk]

Yea, I like the trailers so far. I'm pretty excited for it. I hope they do it justice.

I had my 2nd baseball fantasy league's draft last night. I almost got Anthony Rizzo in like round 8-9.

[Kevynne]

ugh

2 weeks, 1 day

[Sirken]

everyday we get a little bit closer. ive been watching the shit out of the trailors , trying to catch a glimpse of anything i may have missed.

looks like no Martells in season 3

but i saw a preview of the Sandor vs Beric fight, i saw Brienne in the bear bit, i saw Theon in a hood (which is odd because i thought after 2 we dont see theon til 5, but whatever), and then of course im pretty sure the character only so far casted as "boy" is going to be Reek/RamseyBolton.

[Alovia]

I hate what they did to season 2 toward the end...... I forsee not really liking season 3 (based on spoilers).... but damnit I cannot force myself to NOT watch it.

[Sirken]

I hate what they did to season 2 toward the end...... I forsee not really liking season 3 (based on spoilers).... but damnit I cannot force myself to NOT watch it.

please elaborate what u are referring to from season 2. as far as season 3, the only thing not included that i've heard is they are delaying the martells til season 4 ;)

but some stuff needs to be cut due to either it would ruin stuff for readers (ie Neds dreams in season one) or they didnt wanna spend a truckton of cash on one scene that wouldnt be used again ;)

[Alovia]

Ok this is just what i can remember off the top of my head.

They litterally changed Dany's story.....not only that. but changed how her housemaids were and reacted... stupid, and not needed.

I just hated how they did not show acurate visions when Dany was in the House of the Undying. (Somethign that forshadows several other themes)

I just felt they undermined much of the Stark family (not too important, but I feel this family is the focus family and they did not even developt them to much).

My personal favorite character Arya... .just left out her baddassness.

Im not sure if its a bad thing. But Tywin and Arya BARELY intereact in the book....maybe a couple of times. But in the TV series they almost had a relationship.

Theon's entire personality is completely different than the book.

Ygritte... like the entire relationship with her.

Pretty much everything about Margaery Tyrell

Robbs realation ship with Talisa.... what the hell is up with that. Lets not only change the character who it was in the book. BUt lets make this person a nobody. At least Jayne was a noblewoman. This is so stupid and it litterally changes everything about how I felt about Robb.

The fact they changed character names because they felt the adience is to stupid.... or at least could not figure them out just boggles my mind..

Now I know they had an interview a few months ago with the producers and they all said how the changes for season 2 were needed, and everything was ran by GRRM blah blah. AND i understand that somethings need to be changed from book-tv.

But I felt they litterally changed who some of the characters ARE, who later in the series play vital roles.

Margeary, Arya, JON for that matter.

I dunno... I got frustrated with the end of season 2. And while I am looking forward to season 3, Im not sure I agree with what the producers have planed for book 3 and 4..... i feel they are just buying time for GRRM.

Not only that, GRRM is pissing me off.

When Robert Jordan died in 2007, he had given his vision for the WoT series to a friend of his. That way when he died the 60+ year old story can be finished.

GRRM already stated that ASoIAF dies with him. He is 64, in poor health, and at the rate is he writing, we can expect the next book 2015.

He is already worried that Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring may not be enough to see the end of what his vision is....so their may be a book AFTER Dream of Spring

With him taking a TON of side jobs, and screen writes, it will be a miricle for us to see the end of this series either a) before 2025, or b) before he dies.

The biggest thing that frustrates me about the TV show changing things is GRRM himself.
Since 1998 fans have been wanting him to turn GoT into a movie. He stated for many many years that he NEVER would do it, because his characters are so intertwined and complex that it woudl undermine everything he worked to create.

Now I think GoT both the book and the TV series are great. But thats exactly what the TV series is doing. undermining his work...



Unfortunally im a huge ASoIAF fan... and I will watch, and buy the blu-ray of all seasons of GoT...... but I can still hate the difference =)

[Sirken]

Ok this is just what i can remember off the top of my head.

They litterally changed Dany's story.....not only that. but changed how her housemaids were and reacted... stupid, and not needed.

I just hated how they did not show acurate visions when Dany was in the House of the Undying. (Somethign that forshadows several other themes)

I just felt they undermined much of the Stark family (not too important, but I feel this family is the focus family and they did not even developt them to much).

My personal favorite character Arya... .just left out her baddassness.

Im not sure if its a bad thing. But Tywin and Arya BARELY intereact in the book....maybe a couple of times. But in the TV series they almost had a relationship.

Theon's entire personality is completely different than the book.

Ygritte... like the entire relationship with her.

Pretty much everything about Margaery Tyrell

Robbs realation ship with Talisa.... what the hell is up with that. Lets not only change the character who it was in the book. BUt lets make this person a nobody. At least Jayne was a noblewoman. This is so stupid and it litterally changes everything about how I felt about Robb.

The fact they changed character names because they felt the adience is to stupid.... or at least could not figure them out just boggles my mind..

Now I know they had an interview a few months ago with the producers and they all said how the changes for season 2 were needed, and everything was ran by GRRM blah blah. AND i understand that somethings need to be changed from book-tv.

But I felt they litterally changed who some of the characters ARE, who later in the series play vital roles.

Margeary, Arya, JON for that matter.

I dunno... I got frustrated with the end of season 2. And while I am looking forward to season 3, Im not sure I agree with what the producers have planed for book 3 and 4..... i feel they are just buying time for GRRM.

Not only that, GRRM is pissing me off.

When Robert Jordan died in 2007, he had given his vision for the WoT series to a friend of his. That way when he died the 60+ year old story can be finished.

GRRM already stated that ASoIAF dies with him. He is 64, in poor health, and at the rate is he writing, we can expect the next book 2015.

He is already worried that Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring may not be enough to see the end of what his vision is....so their may be a book AFTER Dream of Spring

With him taking a TON of side jobs, and screen writes, it will be a miricle for us to see the end of this series either a) before 2025, or b) before he dies.

The biggest thing that frustrates me about the TV show changing things is GRRM himself.
Since 1998 fans have been wanting him to turn GoT into a movie. He stated for many many years that he NEVER would do it, because his characters are so intertwined and complex that it woudl undermine everything he worked to create.

Now I think GoT both the book and the TV series are great. But thats exactly what the TV series is doing. undermining his work...



Unfortunally im a huge ASoIAF fan... and I will watch, and buy the blu-ray of all seasons of GoT...... but I can still hate the difference =)

they did do lotsa changes to Dany's story, i keep forgetting that. they couldnt actually show all the visions, ie: the vision of Robb. i think they make the starks important. is it all about them? no. but as far as the north goes, thats the only family really getting any face time. but the "focus" is the tagaryen family, and the "dragons". yea they did change up Arya at Harren Hall as well. Theon is a douchebag in both, so meh. Ygritte and Jon bump uglys all the time in the book, and whats different about margaery? shes still a power hungry cersei wanna be.

i 100% agree about robbs wife. her family is important to the story! was plotting with lannisters etc etc. so pissed off about Asha's name being changed. was Jeyne Poole even in season 1?

as far as GRRM dieing, he did reveal the end to HBO - http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?574509-GRRM-has-revealed-the-ending-of-ASOIAF-to-HBO-producers
GRRM has announced that if he dies or is overtaken by the TV show before the release of all his books (3-5 years a book for at least 2 double volumes), HBO knows his intented ending for ASOIAF.

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/gee...book-six/10018

"We were relieved to learn that he knows the end and has shared it with the HBO producers, because, as Martin succinctly put it “the fans are very worried about (knowing the ending) in case I get hit by a truck.” To our great relief, he did offer a glimmer of hope for desperate fans in an October 7, 2012 interview, when he commented that he would like to publish the sixth book in the series in 2014, albeit while admitting that only 400 pages were complete at the time of the interview."


so things are at least not over for the show if he dies before he finishes the books ;)

[Tenlaar]

whats different about margaery? shes still a power hungry cersei wanna be

You didn't know that she had any real aspirations of her own until much, much later in the books. At the beginning she seemed like nothing more than a pawn being passed around for political gain, like the daughters of other houses. It was a real "oh, shit son" moment for me in the books when it's revealed just how much she has been pulling strings all along. They completely took that element of her character away and just have her openly power hungry.

[Sirken]

oh, i have always had feelings about Margaery. granted i also have always felt the QoT is the one pulling the strings in the family, but that doesnt mean Margaery doesn't have aspirations. the hoe went from Renly to Joffery to Tommen.... i smell a gold digger ;)

[Sirken]

8 days and 3 hrs from now

/drool

[Kimm Barely]

http://i.imgur.com/1nZLuef.jpg

[Zereh]

Required drinking while watching?? Ommegang's Iron Throne Blonde Ale (http://gearpatrol.com/2012/12/19/ommegang-iron-throne-blonde-ale/)

http://gearpatrol.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/game-of-thrones-beer-ommegang-brewery-gear-patrol-full.jpg

[Sirken]

smells like a gimmick !

5 days, 21 hours, 49minutes !

[Sirken]

and wtf is that picture?


4days 19hours

fawk

[Lazortag]

As someone who has only read ~300 or so pages of the first book, but is a big fan of the show, I have to say that deviating from the books like they have is not a good idea. My wife has read the books and is quick to tell me when something in the show isn't canon, but usually I can tell because those scenes are written badly. When they add dialogue or situations that weren't in the books, the actors' performances just seem more awkward and the writing isn't great (for example, many of the scenes where daenerys is in qarth, and the conversations between arya and tywin). Having not even read the books I find myself really wishing the writers didn't change so many things unnecessarily.

[goalie]

Spoiler:


John Snow is a targaryean...


Can't wait for books 6 and 7 ! Write faster GRRM you fucker.

[Sirken]

As someone who has only read ~300 or so pages of the first book, but is a big fan of the show, I have to say that deviating from the books like they have is not a good idea. My wife has read the books and is quick to tell me when something in the show isn't canon, but usually I can tell because those scenes are written badly. When they add dialogue or situations that weren't in the books, the actors' performances just seem more awkward and the writing isn't great (for example, many of the scenes where daenerys is in qarth, and the conversations between arya and tywin). Having not even read the books I find myself really wishing the writers didn't change so many things unnecessarily.
the only change i really did like better was that they had Jaime and Ned get into a tiff, instead of some horse falling on Ned and breaking his leg.


Spoiler: John Snow is a targaryean...Can't wait for books 6 and 7 ! Write faster GRRM you fucker.
old news^^ :P

pretty much everyone in this thread agrees that R+L=J



i've decided that "the mummer's dragon" does not imply a fake dragon, or that Aegon is a fake tagaryen, but that its a form of ownership. ie: the dragon that belongs to the mummer.
and that leads me to think that Illyrio is the mummer.

huzzah!

[fullmetalcoxman]

i've decided that "the mummer's dragon" does not imply a fake dragon, or that Aegon is a fake tagaryen, but that its a form of ownership. ie: the dragon that belongs to the mummer.
and that leads me to think that Illyrio is the mummer.

huzzah!

Or Tyrion's dragon, since Tyrion was literally a mummer, for a little while at least. Why would Illyrio get one?

[Tenlaar]

If mummer = actor, who is the best actor in the series?

VARYS! That's what he's been working towards all along! It all makes sense now.

[Sirken]

Or Tyrion's dragon, since Tyrion was literally a mummer, for a little while at least. Why would Illyrio get one?
If mummer = actor, who is the best actor in the series?
VARYS! That's what he's been working towards all along! It all makes sense now.
Illyrio get one what? im not saying he gets an actual dragon, i'm saying that Aegon was part of Illyrio's plan. Varys and Illyrio have been in cahoots together for decades, since they were both young.

i was referring to this quote from the book:
Quaithe proceeds to deliver another cryptic warning:
"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Pale Mare = the Bloody Flux
the "others" = White Walkers
Kraken = Victarion Greyjoy
Dark Flame = Moqorro
Lion = Tyrion Lannister
Griffin = Jon Connington
Sun's Son = Quentyn Martell
the Mummer = Illyrio or Varys
the Mummer's Dragon = Aegon Targaryen
Remember the Undying = the visions she saw, or, the way she was deceived/tricked
Perfumed Seneschal = Varys or Illyrio

Possible others for the perfumed seneschal =


Reznak mo Reznak - due to his position in Daenerys Targaryen's court and his penchant for wearing lots of perfume.
The Selaesori Qhoran (Fragrant Steward), a trading cog.
Satin the steward to Jon Snow, who wears perfume.

[Tenlaar]

Yeah, I was just playing off of fullmetalcoxman's misinterpretation. I think Varys is the mummer, but I don't think Illyrio fits for the perfumed seneschal. I mean, he's not a seneschal of anything, as far as I can recall.

I think it's going to end up being Satin, myself. We pretty much know Jon and Dany are going to come together at some point, which would give him access to her. He claims to come from the Citadel - I don't know if it will be that he was actually sent by the Citadel for whatever reason or if we will find out that was just lies and he is somebody completely unexpected.

Now, another of your points...dark flame. I'm not so sure it's Moqorro. Seems a bit too obvious to me. I think it's quite possible that dark flame will end up meaning Blackfyre and we'll find out that the line isn't quite as dead as people thought.

ETA: I know it's assumed that the things in the prophecy have to go together how they're lumped grammatically, but I'm not sure that's going to end up true. Or true in the way people think.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Join the realm: http://www.jointherealm.com/sigil.html

[goalie]

cant wait for the show.

the show is the show, and the books are the books.

Comparing them is stupid.

[Sirken]

Yeah, I was just playing off of fullmetalcoxman's misinterpretation. I think Varys is the mummer, but I don't think Illyrio fits for the perfumed seneschal. I mean, he's not a seneschal of anything, as far as I can recall.
A seneschal (pron.: /ˈsɛnəʃəl/) was an officer in the houses of important nobles in the Middle Ages. In the French administrative system of the Middle Ages, the sénéchal was also a royal officer in charge of justice and control of the administration in southern provinces
based on that definition i truly think its possible for the Seneschal to be varys or Illyrio, however i dont think 1 person can hold two spots on list, and i think Varys and Illyrio are to important to the story of the realm not to be involved. look up the history of those two men when they were younger. they have always been in cahoots.

We pretty much know Jon and Dany are going to come together at some point, which would give him access to her. He claims to come from the Citadel - I don't know if it will be that he was actually sent by the Citadel for whatever reason or if we will find out that was just lies and he is somebody completely unexpected.
never forget, the dragon has 3 heads. Aegon had his two sisters, Dany will have her two brothers (Jon and Aegon), i imagine Tyrion will be her hand of the queen, and either Selmy or Jorah will lead her queens guard, but Jorah i dont see making it. and what are u talking about with the citadel there? you completely lost me on that :(

Now, another of your points...dark flame. I'm not so sure it's Moqorro. Seems a bit too obvious to me. I think it's quite possible that dark flame will end up meaning Blackfyre and we'll find out that the line isn't quite as dead as people thought.
to be fair, there are 3 red priests running around (Melisandre, Thoros, and Moqorro). that being said, i ABSOLUTELY LOVE where your head is at on this one. never considered the blackfyres.

ETA: I know it's assumed that the things in the prophecy have to go together how they're lumped grammatically, but I'm not sure that's going to end up true. Or true in the way people think.
explain


cant wait for the show.
the show is the show, and the books are the books.
Comparing them is stupid.
very true. at least for people that have been doing both. i love the show because i love seeing all these people and places and events ive read about. but at the same time, i KNOW what happens in season 3, there will be no shock factor, even in Episode 9 (9 is their big one, S1 it was Ned, S2 it was B.W. Bay)

whereas i would burn down a church for children with special needs to get book 6.

[goalie]

very true. at least for people that have been doing both. i love the show because i love seeing all these people and places and events ive read about. but at the same time, i KNOW what happens in season 3, there will be no shock factor, even in Episode 9 (9 is their big one, S1 it was Ned, S2 it was B.W. Bay)

whereas i would burn down a church for children with special needs to get book 6.

agreed. I enjoy the show for what it is, and the books for what they are.

[Tenlaar]

based on that definition i truly think its possible for the Seneschal to be varys or Illyrio

Well I've never considered Illyrio as being a part of any house, but rather an independent master of his own estate - but I can see how a case could be made for him holding a position in the underground Targaeryan house. Now, as to them being important, that could very well tie into the Blackfyre thing - I've seen some speculation that they are actually Blackfyres in hiding, from when the remnants of the family crossed the narrow sea.


and what are u talking about with the citadel there? you completely lost me on that :(

Satin claimed that before he joined the Night's Watch he was a "pillow boy" at the Citadel. The maesters of the Citadel are the ones that killed the last dragons, and work to prevent the return of magic to the world. That's why I think Satin is the perfumed seneschal and is working for the Citadel in some capacity.


explain

With the wording of the prophecy, how they are lumped by commas, people seem to assume that they have to come together. Kraken and dark flame HAVE to mean Victarion and Moqorro, because they are together in the prophecy and have come together in the books. Lion and griffin HAVE to mean Tyrion and Connington, because they are together in the prophecy and have come together in the books. I'm just not entirely convinced and think GRRM could very well have laid it out in that way simply to have red herrings everywhere, so I like to keep my mind open to other possibilities.

[Tenlaar]

I want to expound a bit on the Blackfyre thing, because I think it's an interesting possibility. The vast plot goes something like this - Varys and Serra were brother and sister, children of the Blackfyre house. Upon the doom of the house they ended up as slaves. Now, Varys was picked specifically and bought by the wizard that...eunichized? him. At that point, Varys was already well into an apprenticeship (you know, as a MUMMER), so I'm sure buying him would have been a lot more expensive than any unskilled slave. So, why? After his junk was cut off, it was thrown into a fire during a spell. And what makes magic more powerful? The blood of kings!

Also, Varys said that when Selmy killed Maelys at the battle of Stepstones, it was the end of the male line of house Blackfyre. Not the end of the line, the end of the male line. So this leaves us with Serra, Varys' sister. The last of the female line of Blackfyre. Illyrio marries his first wife in order to increase his station. She dies (how convenient), and he marries Serra. Illyrio and Serra have a child...a child they name Aegon. DUN DUN DUUUUNNNNN!

[Kimm Barely]

http://i.imgur.com/V9a6PSr.png

[Sirken]

I want to expound a bit on the Blackfyre thing, because I think it's an interesting possibility. The vast plot goes something like this - Varys and Serra were brother and sister, children of the Blackfyre house. Upon the doom of the house they ended up as slaves. Now, Varys was picked specifically and bought by the wizard that...eunichized? him. At that point, Varys was already well into an apprenticeship (you know, as a MUMMER), so I'm sure buying him would have been a lot more expensive than any unskilled slave. So, why? After his junk was cut off, it was thrown into a fire during a spell. And what makes magic more powerful? The blood of kings!
Also, Varys said that when Selmy killed Maelys at the battle of Stepstones, it was the end of the male line of house Blackfyre. Not the end of the line, the end of the male line. So this leaves us with Serra, Varys' sister. The last of the female line of Blackfyre. Illyrio marries his first wife in order to increase his station. She dies (how convenient), and he marries Serra. Illyrio and Serra have a child...a child they name Aegon. DUN DUN DUUUUNNNNN!
on this day, you have become my hero. usually i can tear apart theories ive never heard pretty quick, but you sir, every single thing youre saying fits. and i like it, a lot. only thing is this, is Aegon is Illyrios son, and not Rhaegar's son, then Aegon cant be Dany's 3rd dragon rider, as it should be her brother, if history repeats itself. so if everything youre saying is correct, id probably start looking towards Tyrion to not be Tywins son (although i 100% believe he is Tywins son). also Varys has always seemed to be a targaryen loyalist, but who can trust varys?

Well I've never considered Illyrio as being a part of any house, but rather an independent master of his own estate - but I can see how a case could be made for him holding a position in the underground Targaeryan house. Now, as to them being important, that could very well tie into the Blackfyre thing - I've seen some speculation that they are actually Blackfyres in hiding, from when the remnants of the family crossed the narrow sea. Satin claimed that before he joined the Night's Watch he was a "pillow boy" at the Citadel. The maesters of the Citadel are the ones that killed the last dragons, and work to prevent the return of magic to the world. That's why I think Satin is the perfumed seneschal and is working for the Citadel in some capacity.
With the wording of the prophecy, how they are lumped by commas, people seem to assume that they have to come together. Kraken and dark flame HAVE to mean Victarion and Moqorro, because they are together in the prophecy and have come together in the books. Lion and griffin HAVE to mean Tyrion and Connington, because they are together in the prophecy and have come together in the books. I'm just not entirely convinced and think GRRM could very well have laid it out in that way simply to have red herrings everywhere, so I like to keep my mind open to other possibilities.
i completely do not remember the bit about the citadel and the rest of the dragons, let me guess thats from book 4? i missed a lot of stuff in 4 because it was soooo slow for me. but i like the Satin theory. as far as the grammatical arrangement i do believe it matters, but i also believe that it would be a lil to straight forward for GRRMs style, which is why i love Blackfyre as a poss for the "dark flame" and to be fair, for all we know, Victarion could very well be with a blackfyre when he gets to Dany in book 6.

[Sirken]

28 hrs

fawk

[Missingo]

need episode 1 of season 3 now.. cannot wait... ughhhh

[Sirken]

12 hours, 47 min

[Kraftwerk]

Totally butchered Arstan Whitebeard, Fist of First Men, Harrenhall continues to be not at all, Qyburn ugg. Astapor unsullied intro was good, giants and Mance was good, I hope it gets better and they stop chopping up the story.

[Kevynne]

Omg was amazing

[Sirken]

Totally butchered Arstan Whitebeard, Fist of First Men, Harrenhall continues to be not at all, Qyburn ugg. Astapor unsullied intro was good, giants and Mance was good, I hope it gets better and they stop chopping up the story.
they sure love their lil changes for the show dont they?

doesn't matter, its back :)


expect lots of Robb this season, and Lots of mentions ofthe Martells to prep u for all of them in season 4.


THE KING IN THE NORTH!
(going to be so much QQ after Ep9/RW)

[Eccezan]

they sure love their lil changes for the show dont they?

doesn't matter, its back :)


expect lots of Robb this season, and Lots of mentions ofthe Martells to prep u for all of them in season 4.


THE KING IN THE NORTH!
(going to be so much QQ after Ep9/RW)

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[Sirken]

hitler would have helped plan the wedding ;)

just imagine them plotting together

[Sirken]

so was thinking.. doesnt stannis burn those 3 slugs pretty early book 3? one for each of the 3 remaining kings hes aware of (ie: Robb, Joffrey, and Balon. Stannis obviously not aware of Mance or Dany, or it would be called "the war of the 7 kings" instead of "the war of the 5 kings". and ofcourse Renly already dead).

[Sirken]

found a some infos on a couple Barristan chapters from Book 6:

The Winds of Winter

Ser Barristan I
The chapter begins with a gory description of the bodies of plague victims being thrown into the city by the trebuchets. Only the northern districts across the river are far enough away to avoid being hit.

Barristan rides into the large market by the western gate wearing his new Queensguard armor and riding the silver horse that Drogo gave to Dany. He feels that this is presumptuous, but thinks that even while the queen is missing it is important to have some symbol of her around to improve morale. Three of his lads ride with him: Tumco Lho, Larraq, and the Red Lamb.

In the marketplace (featuring landmarks like the statue of the chainmaker and the spire of skulls), at the “hour of the wolf,” the main forces that will participate in the attack gather. There are five thousand unsullied, the Storm Crows, a ragged band of about twenty dothraki and the pitfighters. The Shavepate’s beasts are manning the city walls in place of the unsullied. They will serve as the city’s last line of protection if Barristan’s attack fails and Dany has not returned.

The attack will leave from three gates (north, south, and west), but Barristan will lead the charge against the main Yunkai’i forces directly to the west. Barristan thinks that the attack is against all of his instincts, as the basic numbers are against them and success hinges on trusting sellswords -- in particular, trusting the in the Tattered Prince’s greed.

He meets with his commanders (including the Widower, Jokin, Grey Worm, and some of the pitfighters). Their plan is to lead with the horse and flank the defending legions, taking out the trebuchets and burning the pavilions. The pitfighters will advance after the horse and focus on intimidation and slaughter. Finally, the unsullied will line up outside the gate, which should be successful if the Yunkai’i don’t mount an immediate counterattack.

Barristan reminds the commanders that they must retreat or advance when they hear the Red Lamb blow the horn. The Windower asks what to do if there is no horn blast -- that is, if Barristan and his lads are all dead. Barristan knows that this is likely, as he intends to be first through the lines of the Yunkai’i, so he just says that in that case, the Widower will be second in command. Barristan then remembers that Lord Commander Hightower had once told him to never speak of defeat before a battle, since the gods might be listening.

It will be dawn soon. Someone says “A red dawn,” and Barristan thinks “A dragon dawn.” Previously, he had prayed to each of the seven for various things, ending with a plea to the stranger for mercy. Though he knows all men must die eventually, Barristan would like to live through the day.

More bodies fall from the sky. Barristan notices Tumco Lho’s reaction and sees that the lad fears the pale more more than the foes outside the gates. Barristan then gives a stirring pep talk about how every man fears every battle. At first, the Red Lamb is defiant, saying that doesn’t fear death because at that point he’ll get to meet the Great Shepherd -- when he plans to break his shepherd’s crook in two and castigate the shepherd for creating such a peaceful people in such a violent world.

Barristan continues his lecture, saying that there is “nothing more terrible, nothing more glorious, nothing more absurd” than war. Even Barristan admits that he shat his pants in his first battle. He is interrupted by a murmur among the soldiers -- a fire is lit at the harpy on top of one of the pyramids, presumably to signal the men at each gate to begin the attack. The gate opens and Barristan sounds the call to attack.

[At this point, GRRM says there will be a Victarion and Tyrion chapter (perhaps the ones he has already read), in some order, at which point we return to...]

--------------------

Ser Barristan II

His gut feels twisted from nervousness as he rides through the gates. He knows that the feeling will go away when time slows down in the chaos of battle. Dany’s horse is easily outpacing the lads and the rest of the cavalry; Barristan is pleased because he intends to outrun the Widower and strike the first blow. The Yunkai’i are totally unprepared and Barristan closes in on the Harridan, the largest of the trebuchets. The stormcrows take up the cry, “Daario!” and “Stormcrows, fly!” Barristan thinks that he will never again doubt the valor of sellswords.

There are only thirty yards between the horse and the Yunkai’i legions by the time any defense is mounted. The air fills with arrows. A squire for the stormcrows is killed, and a bolt pierces Barristan’s shield. There are three horn blasts and the pitfighters emerge from the gate behind them.

Barristan glances back to see the pitfighters. There are about two hundred of them, but they make enough noise for two thousand. One woman stands out, wearing nothing but greaves, sandals, a chainmail skirt, and a python. Barristan is a bit shocked and, watching her breasts bouncing around, thinks that this day is sure to be her last. The pitfighters are mostly shouting “Loraq!” and “Hizdar!” but some do call out “Danaerys!” Larraq is hit in the chest with an arrow, bringing Barristan’s attention forward, but the squire keeps the banners held high and shakes it off.

Barristan has reached the Harridan, but a Ghiscari legion six thousand strong has lined up to protect the huge trebuchet. They are six ranks deep -- the first rank kneels and holds their spears pointing out and up, the second rank stands and holds their spears out at waist height, and and the third rank holds the spears out on their shoulders. The rest have small throwing spears and are ready to step forward when their comrades fall.

Barristan knows that a maester’s chain is only as strong as his weakest link, and identifies the companies of the Yunkish lords as the weakest of his immediate foes, certainly weaker than the slave legions. In particular, Barristan targets the Little Pigeon and his herons. The slaves chosen to be herons were freakishly tall before they were put on stilts, and wear pink scales and feathers and steel beaks. But Barristan sees that they will be blind because of the dawn rising over the city, and like to break ranks easily, so Barristan turns away from the legion guarding the trebuchet at the last minute and heads for the herons.

He cuts the head off of one of the herons and his lads join the fray. Dany’s horse knocks a heron into three others and they all fall over. In a moment, the herons are scattering and running away, led by the Little Pigeon himself. Unfortunately for the Little Pigeon, he trips over the fringes of his bird armor and gets caught by the Red Lamb. The Little Pigeon begs for mercy, saying that he will fetch a large ransom. The Red Lamb just says “I came for blood, not gold” and knocks in the Little Pigeon’s head with his mace, splattering blood all over Barristan and Dany’s silver horse.

The unsullied begin marching through the gates, and Barristan sees that the Yunkai’i have missed their chance to effectively launch a counterattack. As he watches more of the slave legions get slaughtered, mostly those who were chained together and could not retreat, he wonders where the sellsword companies like the treacherous Second Sons have gone. The unsullied finish lining up outside the gates, implacable even when one of their own number falls with a crossbow bolt to the neck.

Tumco draws Barristan’s attention to the bay, asking “Why are there so many ships?” Barristan remembers that yesterday there were twenty, but now there are thrice that many. His heart sinks when he reasons that the ships from Volantis must have arrived, but then sees that some of the ships are crashing together.

He asks Tumco, whose young eyes can see more clearly, to identify the banners. Tumco says “Squids, big squids. Like in the Basilisk Isles, where sometimes they drag whole ships down.” Barristan replies, “Where I’m from, we call them krakens.”

Realizing that the Greyjoys have arrived, his first thought is “Has Balon joined with Joffrey, or the Starks?” But he realizes that he’s heard that Balon is dead, and wonders if this has something to do with the Balon’s son, the boy who was a ward of the Starks. He sees that ironmen are coming ashore, fighting the Yunkish, and says, surprised, “They are on our side!” The sellswords did not come to meet his charge because they were already preoccupied with the ironborn!

Barristan is almost gleeful. “It’s like Baelor Breakspear and Prince Maekar, the hammer and the anvil. We have them! We have them!”

[Sirken]

here, all you non book readers, you missed this little gem, its Neds dream from book 1, it takes place after he gets wounded in KL, and before he wakes up to Cersei and Robert standing over him.

if u want to avoid very spoiler information, do not watch the video, and especially do not read the info about the video on youtube.

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[Sirken]

so for anyone that reads this and watches the show..

i thought vargo hoat scoops up Jaime and Brienne. was Vargo a Bolton man? or was that not Vargo? or did they change the character??

[Sirken]

i saw Jaime scream in a trailor in such a way that could only have been his hand.

but ty for the infos, im feeling like i might have to reread the books. lots of small details ive forgotten along the way.

[Funkutron5000]

Vargo was the leader of the brave companions, a mercenary band that betrayed the Lannisters and joined the North. They captured Harrenhall in this deception, where they were subsequently joined by the Boltons.

So yes, it was the brave companions that captured J+B and cut off J's hand. It was only subsequently that Bolton took J under his protection and sent him back to King's Landing, essentially as part of the Bolton-Lanister deal.

As Jamie is taken directly by the Boltons in the show I don't know how they are going to work in getting his hand chopped off.

Flayed man and all that. I wouldn't be surprised if Roose takes his hand off.

[Sirken]

Flayed man and all that. I wouldn't be surprised if Roose takes his hand off.

nah.

Roose has to go with Robb to Riverrun... to make sure he gets there safely

[Eccezan]

so for anyone that reads this and watches the show..

i thought vargo hoat scoops up Jaime and Brienne. was Vargo a Bolton man? or was that not Vargo? or did they change the character??

So that guy at the end of the last episode that captures Jaime played by (Noah Tyler) is Vargo Hoat aka the dream guy that comes to rescue Tom Cruise at the end of Vanilla Sky. In the book he is supposed to have a lisp because his tongue is too big for his mouth. This guy was a good choice since he kind of talks like that. lol

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130408062013/gameofthrones/images/thumb/1/18/Locke-3x02.jpg/250px-Locke-3x02.jpg

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/CaDLCZ8TrXl21mccuAlIfA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0yNjY7cT04NTt3PTQwMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/Movies/Hotzilla/tom-cruise-noah-taylor-paramounts-vanilla-sky-235802.jpg

[Eccezan]

So that guy at the end of the last episode that captures Jaime played by (Noah Tyler) is Vargo Hoat aka the dream guy that comes to rescue Tom Cruise at the end of Vanilla Sky. In the book he is supposed to have a lisp because his tongue is too big for his mouth. This guy was a good choice since he kind of talks like that. lol

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130408062013/gameofthrones/images/thumb/1/18/Locke-3x02.jpg/250px-Locke-3x02.jpg

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/CaDLCZ8TrXl21mccuAlIfA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0yNjY7cT04NTt3PTQwMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/Movies/Hotzilla/tom-cruise-noah-taylor-paramounts-vanilla-sky-235802.jpg

I think this is the same Vargo Hoat that the mountain captures, tortures slowly, goes insane from an infection after brienne bites his ear off, and then feeds to his men, amirite?

[Sirken]

I think this is the same Vargo Hoat that the mountain captures, tortures slowly, goes insane from an infection after brienne bites his ear off, and then feeds to his men, amirite?

i think ur thinking of Biter, and i think Vargo and Biter are different people:confused:

[Kraftwerk]

Eccezan described Vargo but I don't know if they'll be 100% faithful to his character . Biter bites Brienne's cheek in AFFC I believe.

[Eccezan]

Eccezan described Vargo but I don't know if they'll be 100% faithful to his character . Biter bites Brienne's cheek in AFFC I believe.

Truth, biter fucks brienne up.

[Sirken]

Truth, biter fucks brienne up.

i honestly thought she was dead after that chapter.

[Sirken]

im thinking they are gonna cut a bunch of the brave companion stuff out and just have Boltons do it.

Robb left Roose at Harrenhall, which doesnt happen in the book. in the book Roose gets to HH after Jaimes hand was removed by Vargo.

i do not see HOW Roose Bolton or his men can lob off Jaime's hand and still make the deal with the Lannisters. unless they change it so the hand thing doesnt happen at harrenhall, but happens after he saves Brienne from the bear pits.

[Elderan]

i do not see HOW Roose Bolton or his men can lob off Jaime's hand and still make the deal with the Lannisters. unless they change it so the hand thing doesnt happen at harrenhall, but happens after he saves Brienne from the bear pits.

I really hope not. The idea he lost his hand saving someone at that point in his char arc would just not be right.

He lost his hand because he deserved it and much worse. Losing his hand while saving someone just would not fit well with the way his char is taken.

[Sirken]

I really hope not. The idea he lost his hand saving someone at that point in his char arc would just not be right.

He lost his hand because he deserved it and much worse. Losing his hand while saving someone just would not fit well with the way his char is taken.

im confused :P

are u saying you'd rather it happen because he doubles back for Brienne? or are u saying, ud rather it not happen due to him doubling back for Brienne?

[Elderan]

im confused :P

are u saying you'd rather it happen because he doubles back for Brienne? or are u saying, ud rather it not happen due to him doubling back for Brienne?

I feel like when Jamie losses his hand he cares about no one but himself and his sister. To lose his hand AFTER he finally shows he might care about something other than himself, like saving Brienne, would change one of his key char moments.

Basically I am saying his hand being chopped off brought him down to earth. If he had both hands I don't think he goes back for Brienne. I think he would have run to Kings Landing and not looked back.

[Dalven]

I need to check this thread more often, so much to speak about. Bear with me while I bring up some old points...

I want to expound a bit on the Blackfyre thing, because I think it's an interesting possibility. The vast plot goes something like this - Varys and Serra were brother and sister, children of the Blackfyre house. Upon the doom of the house they ended up as slaves. Now, Varys was picked specifically and bought by the wizard that...eunichized? him. At that point, Varys was already well into an apprenticeship (you know, as a MUMMER), so I'm sure buying him would have been a lot more expensive than any unskilled slave. So, why? After his junk was cut off, it was thrown into a fire during a spell. And what makes magic more powerful? The blood of kings!
Also, Varys said that when Selmy killed Maelys at the battle of Stepstones, it was the end of the male line of house Blackfyre. Not the end of the line, the end of the male line. So this leaves us with Serra, Varys' sister. The last of the female line of Blackfyre. Illyrio marries his first wife in order to increase his station. She dies (how convenient), and he marries Serra. Illyrio and Serra have a child...a child they name Aegon. DUN DUN DUUUUNNNNN!

Also love this, I'm certain Aegon is a Blackfyre and also believe the comment about the "male line" being extinguished as being important. Have toyed with the idea of Varys being a Blackfyre and talked earlier in the thread about Aegon being Illyrio's son (although I declared it crackpot) - this makes sense to me.

Satin claimed that before he joined the Night's Watch he was a "pillow boy" at the Citadel. The maesters of the Citadel are the ones that killed the last dragons, and work to prevent the return of magic to the world. That's why I think Satin is the perfumed seneschal and is working for the Citadel in some capacity.

I'm not convinced Satin is the perfumed seneschal (his scenes with Jon in ASOS when they are on the rooftop defending Castle Black from Ygritte et al make me think he was a bit clueless when he joined the Watch - although I've been wrong many times before) although I agree with the stuff about the Citadel being against the return of dragons. Marwyn's position as being seen as an outsider in the Citadel, his secrecy from the rest of the Maesters about his trip to see Daenaerys and the skepticism Luwin displays about magic to Bran implies to me that it is thought of as foolish and a waste of time amongst the Citadel although the reason for this is open to interpretation.

so was thinking.. doesnt stannis burn those 3 slugs pretty early book 3? one for each of the 3 remaining kings hes aware of (ie: Robb, Joffrey, and Balon. Stannis obviously not aware of Mance or Dany, or it would be called "the war of the 7 kings" instead of "the war of the 5 kings". and ofcourse Renly already dead).

Aye, all dead by the end of ASOS as well, more displays of the power in Melisandre's magic... or coincidence?

Barriston Chapters

Can't wait for TWOW. Pay off at last!

I think this is the same Vargo Hoat that the mountain captures, tortures slowly, goes insane from an infection after brienne bites his ear off, and then feeds to his men, amirite?

Aye, although I think the Mountain feeds Vargo his own hands and feet first, then feeds him to the bear. Brienne was in the pit when Jaime rescues her because she'd bit of Vargo's ear. Biter then makes a mess of Brienne's face when she is defending that inn Gendry is at from Rorge and the remnants of the Brave Companions he is leading.

im thinking they are gonna cut a bunch of the brave companion stuff out and just have Boltons do it.

Robb left Roose at Harrenhall, which doesnt happen in the book. in the book Roose gets to HH after Jaimes hand was removed by Vargo.

i do not see HOW Roose Bolton or his men can lob off Jaime's hand and still make the deal with the Lannisters. unless they change it so the hand thing doesnt happen at harrenhall, but happens after he saves Brienne from the bear pits.

Also wondering how they will have the Boltons do it and make it plausible the Lannisters team up with them. If that was the Brave Companions rather than Bolton men, they will probably get a bit of fleshing out in the next episode. I hope they cut off Jaime's hand in the way it was meant to, as he deserved it as has been said above. Vargo had a penchant for cutting off hands in the books, but would also make sense to do it to effectively neuter Jaime, a dangerous man.

So the Theon torture scene.. is the main guy in that meant to be Ramsey? Or maybe its the guy that says he going to let Theon escape... I remember Ramsey liked to let them loose and hunt them down.

I was also trying to work that one out. I can't remember if the Ramsay/Reek character was introduced in the last season, but I think it was an iron born who was encouraging Theon to do the kid killing stuff. I had assumed the guy speaking to Theon claiming he was from his sister was 'Wex' for some reason - the guy who ends up tongueless in ADWD who tells Manderly that he saw Rickon and Osha. However if it is Ramsay messing with Theon that wouldn't be bad introduction for the Bastard. I'm surprised they introduced Theon so early as he is missing for two whole books, are we gonna get two seasons of Theon being turned into less than a man?

That's all for now, love a ASOIAF wall of text.

[Sirken]

I need to check this thread more often, so much to speak about. Bear with me while I bring up some old points...
YES U DO!

Also love this, I'm certain Aegon is a Blackfyre and also believe the comment about the "male line" being extinguished as being important. Have toyed with the idea of Varys being a Blackfyre and talked earlier in the thread about Aegon being Illyrio's son (although I declared it crackpot) - this makes sense to me.
hehe, i cant buy in to the theory of Aegon being Illyrio's son. and i feel the whole Jon Connington story cancels it out pretty well.

I'm not convinced Satin is the perfumed seneschal (his scenes with Jon in ASOS when they are on the rooftop defending Castle Black from Ygritte et al make me think he was a bit clueless when he joined the Watch - although I've been wrong many times before) although I agree with the stuff about the Citadel being against the return of dragons. Marwyn's position as being seen as an outsider in the Citadel, his secrecy from the rest of the Maesters about his trip to see Daenaerys and the skepticism Luwin displays about magic to Bran implies to me that it is thought of as foolish and a waste of time amongst the Citadel although the reason for this is open to interpretation.
i dont like Satin for that spot either. Marwyn still intrigues me to no end. and i agree with the luwin/interpretation thing.

Aye, all dead by the end of ASOS as well, more displays of the power in Melisandre's magic... or coincidence?
maybe a bit of both?

Aye, although I think the Mountain feeds Vargo his own hands and feet first, then feeds him to the bear. Brienne was in the pit when Jaime rescues her because she'd bit of Vargo's ear. Biter then makes a mess of Brienne's face when she is defending that inn Gendry is at from Rorge and the remnants of the Brave Companions he is leading.
mountain does that after jaime iirc. i think Brienne was pit in the bear pit because they thought itd be fun to watch, nothing more. i totally thought brienne was dead when biter tore into her face.

Also wondering how they will have the Boltons do it and make it plausible the Lannisters team up with them. If that was the Brave Companions rather than Bolton men, they will probably get a bit of fleshing out in the next episode. I hope they cut off Jaime's hand in the way it was meant to, as he deserved it as has been said above. Vargo had a penchant for cutting off hands in the books, but would also make sense to do it to effectively neuter Jaime, a dangerous man.
exactly!


I was also trying to work that one out. I can't remember if the Ramsay/Reek character was introduced in the last season, but I think it was an iron born who was encouraging Theon to do the kid killing stuff. I had assumed the guy speaking to Theon claiming he was from his sister was 'Wex' for some reason - the guy who ends up tongueless in ADWD who tells Manderly that he saw Rickon and Osha. However if it is Ramsay messing with Theon that wouldn't be bad introduction for the Bastard. I'm surprised they introduced Theon so early as he is missing for two whole books, are we gonna get two seasons of Theon being turned into less than a man?
we did not see him last season. we heard of him when Roose tells Robb to let him send his bastard to retake winterfell. the kid helping theon is either Ramsay, or one of Ramsays' people. pretty clear this is one of the "tests" theon will have to endure on the transformation to Reek (Reek Reek rhymes with Leak). the guy that tells theon to kill the kids was however an ironborn. i dont remember Wex :( also, they had to keep theon around because hes under contract, and they arent going to pay him and not use him, its bad business.


<3 this story

[Sirken]

episode 3 of season 3 was tonight.

the golden cub lost his paw ;)





ps- just to add, i was reading some of the reviews of tonites episode, you can clearly tell which writers have read the book, or are fans of the story, and those that were told to just watch the episode and write a 1000 words about it.

one asshole made a comment saying HBO put tyrion as master of the coin that has to deal with the debt as a shot at modern times political BS thats going on. and i just /facepalm thinking how dumb these assholes must be not to realize this story is from books written well before the debt crisis, and has nothing to do with it. /rant off

[Funkutron5000]

The Hold Steady's version of the Bear and the Maiden fair was beyond fantastic.

As was Pod's skill.

[Sirken]

yea, i lol when i hear it. not just their version, but the song in general. it just takes me back to the books.

[Funkutron5000]

It was a perfect smash cut and all tension was obliterated. A+ trolling by the producers.

[Kimm Barely]

Solid episode. Gf loved the Podrick scenes due to her doppelgangers starring role. xD

Little confused about the Theon story being utterly butchered.

While I am loving the series I weep for some of the cut details.

[Funkutron5000]

Solid episode. Gf loved the Podrick scenes due to her doppelgangers starring role. xD

Little confused about the Theon story being utterly butchered.

While I am loving the series I weep for some of the cut details.

They're doing an interesting take on it to try and fill in some details between Theon losing Winterfell and becoming Reek (reek it rhymes with sneak). It seems like the person who "saved" him is pretty clearly Ramsey and he will lull him into a sense of security, learn that Bran and Rickon are not dead, and then get on with his transformation into Reek with the flaying and the torture.

[Kimm Barely]

Intredasting how they still surprise me with the editing of the story in the show. I think the Blackfish is perfect and I did not realize Catelyn's brother was such an aloof scrub. For some reason that wasn't clear to me from reading the book.

Love the willow guy as the Thenn (forgot name lol). Arya got fat.

[Sirken]

Little confused about the Theon story being utterly butchered.
They're doing an interesting take on it to try and fill in some details between Theon losing Winterfell and becoming Reek (reek it rhymes with sneak). It seems like the person who "saved" him is pretty clearly Ramsey and he will lull him into a sense of security, learn that Bran and Rickon are not dead, and then get on with his transformation into Reek with the flaying and the torture.
this is exactly what happens to Theon in the books essentilly (minus the rapey bit). we just dont know about it til book 5, but we are told at that point. Ramsay "tests" Theon multiple times. he enjoys the cat and mouse games, hunting Theon, etc. and yes the guy that "set him free" was Ramsay.

While I am loving the series I weep for some of the cut details.
like all the fucking dreams of every fucking character? and dany's visions at the house of the undying? that pissed me off a bunch.

[Hasbinbad]

one asshole made a comment saying HBO put tyrion as master of the coin that has to deal with the debt as a shot at modern times political BS thats going on. and i just /facepalm thinking how dumb these assholes must be not to realize this story is from books written well before the debt crisis, and has nothing to do with it. /rant off
Not discussing the validity what what you saw, but it is CERTAINLY possible for HBO to frame shift within the constraints of asoiaf canon and punch up this or that scene or cut this or that scene which agrees or disagrees with their politics or the image they are trying to portray.

[Kimm Barely]

Gf pointed out how Podrick got that pussy for free because he was the war hero that saved Tyrionn and are looking forward to a non-Littlefinger regime change. Thought it was cute they wanted to pop his cherry.

[Kraftwerk]

Gf pointed out how Podrick got that pussy for free because he was the war hero that saved Tyrionn and are looking forward to a non-Littlefinger regime change. Thought it was cute they wanted to pop his cherry.

I interpreted that as he didn't do anything with them and was naive enough to think he could tell Bronn and Tyrion he got it for free. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Kimm Barely]

Nope. The people of the city KNOW Podrick saved Tyrionn, who saved the city. War hero virgin is a big deal. They asked him what he did to them to which he replied, I did lots of things to them. Then they get all excited and pour some drinks and bullshit about like men do about their first time.

Tyrionn is very well beloved by the prostitute community, and his regime change is a welcome relief because Littlefinger was a cruel monster to them.

[Sirken]

could have been any of these imo

1) Pod was not a fat, old man.
2) no more LF / trying to impress Tyrion
3) Tyrion saved Roz from Cersei, earning favor with the whores
4) Pod is a Hero from blackwater bay (battle)

[Kimm Barely]

See, even Sirken agrees with me.

[Hasbinbad]

http://i.imgur.com/hy7mwsO.jpg

[Sirken]

HBB, A+

[Sirken]

so. for the book readers, i know its exciting to see these new characters in season 3. but im wondering if people that havent read are enjoying the season so far?

i remember thinking the first 500 pages of book 3 were just a bunch of assholes walking around and talking. at least until RW. at then its non stop fun for the rest of the book. (maybe "fun" is the wrong word there)

[Funkutron5000]

The Ramsey reveal was so awesome. I've enjoyed seeing non-reader reactions to that one!

Also, Pod confirmed baller and Varys confirmed patient and willing to play the long game, and absolutely ruthless!

And I think fun is absolutely the way to describe the Red Wedding onward. I'm just so sad that Joff's wedding won't be this season, but at least we should get the Dog vs. the Lightning Lord in the next episode. The end of SoS is perhaps the quickest I've ever read that amount of pages. Sleep could wait. People had to die!

[Hasbinbad]

i teared up when danny started speaking valyrian.

i obv. knew it was coming but the look on that chicks face was so perfect i actually had an emotional reaction of triumph.

Still kind of upset that she has wyverns instead of dragons, even tho they insist on calling them dragons.

[Kimm Barely]

The Ramsey reveal was great though GF didn't get an exact sense of the cruelness of him just yet. The Nightswatch scene at Craster's was done well and wrenching. The Queen of Thorns and Margaery are amazing characters. They are very wily and crafty. Loved Tywinn calling out Cersei on not controlling Joff.

As a book reader I felt the scene with Varys was really really cut short but I get it. Dragon scene of course gave me the chills as it did in the books. They did it well. GF was all like I knew she understood them! RAH RAH RAH DRAGONS YAY

Great episode man. I thought it was confirmed somewhere they would end this season with the Red Wedding?

[Funkutron5000]

I've heard that RW is episode 9 so they have room for a little more to happen after that. It'd would be an almighty dick move to make people wait a year to see anything else after RW, but that would fit GRRM's style of being an absolute bitch the reader/ viewer.