ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[katrik]

I'm sure you've all seen it, but my other boyfriend, Kit Harington was in costume, photographed AGAIN.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-season_5605be99e4b0af3706dc59ff?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg 00000063

[Sirken]

I'm sure you've all seen it, but my other boyfriend, Kit Harington was in costume, photographed AGAIN.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-season_5605be99e4b0af3706dc59ff?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg 00000063

tell your boyfriend he knows nothing

[Sirken]

Im not gonna to attempt to read all these pages of this thread.. currently reading the 3rd book on page 334. I've read a bit of your guys rumors and spoilers etc. I have a feeling people keep guessing what is gonna happen next he hears about it and go "fuck those fay gates, they aren't guessing my plot twist / ending and changes it again"

just becareful if you havent read all the books and care about spoilers ;)

[Villide]

Im not gonna to attempt to read all these pages of this thread.. currently reading the 3rd book on page 334. I've read a bit of your guys rumors and spoilers etc. I have a feeling people keep guessing what is gonna happen next he hears about it and go "fuck those fay gates, they aren't guessing my plot twist / ending and changes it again"
I'm in the middle of a reread of the series - just about done with book 3. Definitely my favorite, so many important things happen in this one.

Anyone read "A Ball of Beasts"? I'm going to give that a go, since reading 4 & 5 in order was somewhat disjointed.

[MycahDavith]

I'm curious if any of you have read the "Hedge Knight" shorts by GRRM? very interesting.

[TheBiznessTZ]

just becareful if you havent read all the books and care about spoilers ;)

Meh im reading what spoilers i have red with a grain of salt. There is just so much more happening in the book vs the tv show. It kinda almost doesn't matter if you read the spoiler or not. I think my favorite part of the series so far was the battle of black water bay. I'm a little skeptical how well im gonna like book 4 &5 since you guys say they happen at the same time. But the TV show doesn't fill in stuff as well as i thought. Like for an example i just read the chapter with Ygritte and jon finally getting together and they fuck alot and the show made it seem like a one time thing to protect Jon's honor or something is what it felt like to me. I'm Sure ill have 4 & 5 read by time the 6th comes out. So im not too worried about spoilers.

[wts]

Books 4 and 5 were a bit of a slog the first time but I really enjoyed rereading them after Sirks turned us on to Preston Jacobs youtube channel. You probably don't want to spoil yourself before you read through the first time but, if you're disappointed after finishing book 5, check out the Dornish Master Plan videos. Stuff will make a lot more sense.

[holahouze]

Meh im reading what spoilers i have red with a grain of salt. There is just so much more happening in the book vs the tv show. It kinda almost doesn't matter if you read the spoiler or not. I think my favorite part of the series so far was the battle of black water bay. I'm a little skeptical how well im gonna like book 4 &5 since you guys say they happen at the same time. But the TV show doesn't fill in stuff as well as i thought. Like for an example i just read the chapter with Ygritte and jon finally getting together and they fuck alot and the show made it seem like a one time thing to protect Jon's honor or something is what it felt like to me. I'm Sure ill have 4 & 5 read by time the 6th comes out. So im not too worried about spoilers.

I'm not averse to spoilers either. I spoiled a lot of stuff for myself, looking for answers or additional info to better understand something -- then you notice something else and on and on it goes. This blog includes comments about book and show. If you don't mind bumping into things that happened in books 4 & 5 before you read them, or that something happened in the books and you missed it, or differences between book and show plots, you can proceed with no worries.

Also, you might want to consider @villide's post above about ballofbeasts. It sorts out books 4 & 5 chapter by chapter and combines them into reasonable logical order. Have fun with your reading!

[Sirken]

Books 4 and 5 were a bit of a slog the first time but I really enjoyed rereading them after Sirks turned us on to Preston Jacobs youtube channel. You probably don't want to spoil yourself before you read through the first time but, if you're disappointed after finishing book 5, check out the Dornish Master Plan videos. Stuff will make a lot more sense.

i love his videos. most of them i just write off as entertainment and tinfoil, nothing more. however, his dornish master plan one is really really good. along with a few others, but that set might be my favorite :)

[Sirken]

I'm curious if any of you have read the "Hedge Knight" shorts by GRRM? very interesting.

yes of course, i love them tbh. either this month or next month all three dunk&egg stories will be released in their own book together for the first time (instead of crammed in a big ass big with little stories by a dozen different offers.

and if you cant wait, all the Dunk&Egg (hedge knight) stories are available on youtube in audio form ;)

[holahouze]

I'm curious if any of you have read the "Hedge Knight" shorts by GRRM? very interesting.

FYI, the 3 novellas are being combined into one book. A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. It will be released 10/6. Its also available pre-order on various book-selling sites. i expect to have my copy delivered 10/10.

[Sirken]

FYI, the 3 novellas are being combined into one book. A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. It will be released 10/6. Its also available pre-order on various book-selling sites. i expect to have my copy delivered 10/10.

hmmm. october 6 is magical. mcdonalds starting their all day breakfast, and hedge knight in one book. gonna be a good day. i have my fingers crossed for october 27th to be a rather glorious day, actually im looking forward to that whole week, just cant say why :P

[holahouze]

hmmm. october 6 is magical. mcdonalds starting their all day breakfast, and hedge knight in one book. gonna be a good day. i have my fingers crossed for october 27th to be a rather glorious day, actually im looking forward to that whole week, just cant say why :P

October 27... i'll bite.

[xKoopa]

October 6th... new mistborn book comes out that day as well

[Sirken]

October 27... i'll bite.

oh its irl related, i didnt mean to tease anything p99 or GoT related ;)

i read the alleged season 6 outline thats been circling the internet. if that stuff is true, i dunno how i feel about it. but is it too early for season 6 predictions?

[holahouze]

oh its irl related, i didnt mean to tease anything p99 or GoT related ;)

i read the alleged season 6 outline thats been circling the internet. if that stuff is true, i dunno how i feel about it. but is it too early for season 6 predictions?

Never too early! Let me ask first, do you think HBO will go to an 8th season?

[Sirken]

Never too early! Let me ask first, do you think HBO will go to an 8th season?

yes. im pretty sure HBO said that they were planning on 8 seasons at the beginning og this year. its probably in this thread if you search the thread for "season 8" it should come up ;)

[Sirken]

I'll go first.

Rogean: Tywin Lannister
Nilbog: Qyburn the Disgraced Maester
Sirken: Joffrey Lannister
Aussie:
Zade:
Derubael: Ser Meryn Trant
Amelinda:
Sirkorsky:
Guineapig:
Eunomia:
Moregan: Patches

Any other ideas?

theres a well done picture depicting this already. its further back in this thread. but ill post it again when i get home. will be about 60min from now.

unless i crash and die.

[Villide]

Who'd not answer my petition then?!?!?!

minakto: Robert Arryn

[Sirken]

theres a well done picture depicting this already. its further back in this thread. but ill post it again when i get home. will be about 60min from now.

unless i crash and die.

did not crash or die. so as promised

http://i.imgur.com/x1LMnqe.jpg

[wts]

Haha Secrets.

[wts]

most of them i just write off as entertainment and tinfoil, nothing more.

Yeah he's got some shit that's way out there. He's like the Fox Mulder of GoT. Dude is a fucking rock star.

Is it too early for season 6 predictions?

You're kidding right? OF COURSE NOT! What you got?

[TheBiznessTZ]

Just got read the red wedding part finally.... MOTHA FUCKING FREYS.

Edit: But where da fuk is Jeyne... show killed her off at the twins but shes at riverrun?

[Sidelle]

Just got read the red wedding part finally.... MOTHA FUCKING FREYS.
Gross... The Freys and those fucked up weirdo hats they like to wear.. How dare those scumbag pieces of shit think there won't be a heavy price to pay for their treachery. If Lord Walder thought it was difficult to marry his butt-ugly offspring into the greater families before, he hasn't seen nothing yet. For the next thousand years it will be him choosing between Boltons or those kennel hounds that Ramsey is so fond of -- not sure which of these would be preferable. Probably the kennel hounds. LOL
Edit: But where da fuk is Jeyne... show killed her off at the twins but shes at riverrun?
Yeah, they changed a few things about Mrs. Robb Stark. I was actually happy they did that because I was disgusted by Robb's choice of wife in the books -- timid and boring Jeyne Westerling that Robb only married because he felt obligated to do so after taking her virginity as a guest recuperating in her home. Every little detail was so obviously planned by her devious and ambitious low-born foreign mother from Essos.

In the book Robb leaves Jeyne at Riverrun to avoid any chance of further offending the Freys and I think as a precautionary measure in case she's pregnant with Robb Stark's future heir to the Kingdom of the North. It was safer to leave her behind with the other Westerlings because duh, no one trusts the Freys.

So, in the show he brought his pregnant queen, Talisa Maegyr (a beautiful noble woman and skilled healer from Volantis) with him to the Twins where she was murdered along with everyone else. it was the best way to make it known to all of Westeros (and to us viewers) there was no possible chance there would be some secret Stark heir to Robb's kingdom coming out of hiding later, which would most likely trigger another war.

[MrSparkle001]

Edit: But where da fuk is Jeyne... show killed her off at the twins but shes at riverrun?

Oh that's just the beginning of the show deviating from the books. By season 5 it's almost not even the same story anymore. If you've seen the show before reading the books you might get confused while reading, but if you read the books before seeing the show you'll be even more confused.

[AzzarTheGod]

/r/ a link to that season 6 outline.

The source I read had too much speculation added. Anyone have the raw leak outline without the speculation?

[TheBiznessTZ]

Oh that's just the beginning of the show deviating from the books. By season 5 it's almost not even the same story anymore. If you've seen the show before reading the books you might get confused while reading, but if you read the books before seeing the show you'll be even more confused.

Ok thx.

[holahouze]

A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms landed in my mailbox yesterday. I just turned the last page. Battling a cold/flu and sloppy high on Nyquil, but very entertaining book with awesome illustrations every 2-3 pages. I'll need to re-read some sections that carry meaning into ASOIAF. Dunk is a tough bugger and stand-up guy. Egg getting a unique education. Well done. More please.

[Sirken]

A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms landed in my mailbox yesterday. I just turned the last page. Battling a cold/flu and sloppy high on Nyquil, but very entertaining book with awesome illustrations every 2-3 pages. I'll need to re-read some sections that carry meaning into ASOIAF. Dunk is a tough bugger and stand-up guy. Egg getting a unique education. Well done. More please.

remember Rohanne Webber (the red widow lady from the second dunk & egg book)? did you ever connect the dots on her being Tywin's grandmother? ;)

[holahouze]

remember Rohanne Webber (the red widow lady from the second dunk & egg book)? did you ever connect the dots on her being Tywin's grandmother? ;)

The Red Widow is an interesting character - i thought Dunk stepped up his game in dealing with her (and might have been sweet on her). But, no, i did not see connection to Lannisters. i'm thick as a castle wall.

The book is a very easy read, but i need to go back through the names. And, i need to go back through Mystery Knight. I got confused about who was in on the conspriacy and who wasn't.

Couple random thoughts: tough break for Baelor; the Targaryen - Blackfyre conflict is sick (i see what you mean about Bloodraven blocking fAegon); and Martin gave Egg most of the best lines.

[beyondinfin]

I finished the first Dunk and Egg book about a week ago, and it was a great little story. Im gonna start the next one today. It really makes me wish we had a lot more books in the GOT universe, covering different eras and stories.

[TheBiznessTZ]

So George RR Martin confirmed a few weeks ago that there is going to be a movie and he doesn't have any involment with it cause he wants to focus on writing the books.

My Hopes / Specualtion is that its a Pre-quel movie and covers the rebelion of Robert / Eddard Stark. Tons of small battles to lead up to the huge ones (the trident / Kings landing) tons of story line / character development with the mad king burning Eddards Brother / Dad. The Iron Men rebelion. Siege on Storms end or was it dragonstone? Would love to see it cover the vastly enriched history of what happened before the books.

/discuss

[Patriam1066]

I finished the first Dunk and Egg book about a week ago, and it was a great little story. Im gonna start the next one today. It really makes me wish we had a lot more books in the GOT universe, covering different eras and stories.

I got "A knight of the seven kingdoms" yesterday, started reading it, and couldn't put it down. I finished The Hedge Knight and finally went to sleep. Work sucked ass today but the story was definitely good.

I would really love a novel or series of novels about the dance of the dragons or the first couple of blackfyre rebellions.

PS: Thanks holahouze and Sirken for mentioning a knight of the seven kingdoms

[Sirken]

I got "A knight of the seven kingdoms" yesterday, started reading it, and couldn't put it down. I finished The Hedge Knight and finally went to sleep. Work sucked ass today but the story was definitely good.

I would really love a novel or series of novels about the dance of the dragons or the first couple of blackfyre rebellions.

PS: Thanks holahouze and Sirken for mentioning a knight of the seven kingdoms

theyve been written. they are called: "The Rogue Prince" & "The Princess and the Queen". read them in that order. the Princess and the Queen picks up right where the Rogue Prince leaves off. these basically cover the dance of the dragons pretty well. they are also available on audio on youtube. enjoy

[AzzarTheGod]

So George RR Martin confirmed a few weeks ago that there is going to be a movie and he doesn't have any involment with it cause he wants to focus on writing the books.

My Hopes / Specualtion is that its a Pre-quel movie and covers the rebelion of Robert / Eddard Stark. Tons of small battles to lead up to the huge ones (the trident / Kings landing) tons of story line / character development with the mad king burning Eddards Brother / Dad. The Iron Men rebelion. Siege on Storms end or was it dragonstone? Would love to see it cover the vastly enriched history of what happened before the books.

/discuss

Makes the most sense. If they didn't go with this, I don't know what else would make a better movie.

Also "no involvement" at all?? Hard to believe and would be the definition of selling out.

I think he just means hes not going to be in the day to day development/writing process. And just shown the final product and told to rubber stamp it.

[holahouze]

Makes the most sense. If they didn't go with this, I don't know what else would make a better movie.

Also "no involvement" at all?? Hard to believe and would be the definition of selling out.

I think he just means hes not going to be in the day to day development/writing process. And just shown the final product and told to rubber stamp it.

Martin de-bunked the movie rumor around end of September. You can find his own words on his website. Scroll down Not a Blog until 9/28 entry.

I also read an article recently where Martin was quoted about possibility of movie. In it, Martin said something like HBO owns broadcast/production rights, but Martin owns content. They can't make a move independently. Sorry, i can't locate that article.

[holahouze]

remember Rohanne Webber (the red widow lady from the second dunk & egg book)? did you ever connect the dots on her being Tywin's grandmother? ;)

Sirken, I'm finding a fair number of houses/families mentioned in D&E stories get little to no mention in ASOIAF. Is that the price paid for backing the wrong dragon?

[Sirken]

Sirken, I'm finding a fair number of houses/families mentioned in D&E stories get little to no mention in ASOIAF. Is that the price paid for backing the wrong dragon?

are u srsly asking for spoilers to the book you are currently reading? :p

just read it! ;)

[Sirken]

as far as the movie, i srsly doubt he'd okay a roberts rebellion movie. there's too many unknowns that would be shown, and i think GRRM likes that veil to hide behind. plus, thered be no dragons.

i think a D&E movie (and possible trilogy) would be the safest bet. especially because theres already source material written.

[holahouze]

are u srsly asking for spoilers to the book you are currently reading? :p

just read it! ;)

Ha! I did. eg. "you lie." Said Dunk. "That's two words."

I don't want to spoil stories with too many specifics, but only one of the Lords was executed. I assumed the others were punished and that is why they are absent from future stories, but thought i would ask. Lesson being, don't cross Bloodraven.

I really wonder how it went down when Aemon had Bloodraven arrested and then sent to the wall. I have a feeling BR could have used his mojo to avoid that fate, but maybe he understood he had a higher calling awaiting,

[TheBiznessTZ]

as far as the movie, i srsly doubt he'd okay a roberts rebellion movie. there's too many unknowns that would be shown, and i think GRRM likes that veil to hide behind. plus, thered be no dragons.

i think a D&E movie (and possible trilogy) would be the safest bet. especially because theres already source material written.

Well if it's a prequel movie they could always do flash backs to Aegon the Conqueror? But it wouldn't be much worse or better then what HBO is doing with the show now with its "seperate storyline" starting this season... so really the mobie doesn't really have to be anything like the book if we think about it that way. Literally all the characters would have to be recasted cause they would be too old for the story line which be interesting. Maybe they would cast two people for Renly / Robert that look remotely related. But Maybe we could get a movie about the Andals and the First Men the children of the forest etc. Maybe something to do with Valyaria?! Oh and GRRM said he didn't want much involvment with the movie cause he wants to write the books and he wants to finish it for his fans and he feels commited to it. I believe he trust's them with the show and would do so with the movie.

[Patriam1066]

theyve been written. they are called: "The Rogue Prince" & "The Princess and the Queen". read them in that order. the Princess and the Queen picks up right where the Rogue Prince leaves off. these basically cover the dance of the dragons pretty well. they are also available on audio on youtube. enjoy

Thanks Lol

[holahouze]

Thanks Lol

@Patriam1066, I read both the Rogue Prince and the Princess and the Queen over the past 2 days. Googled around and found both on-line, FREE reading. They're not as long as novellas - you can knock them out in an hour or two (wasn't keeping track).

Like the novellas, they are worth reading. I had not invested much thought into the Targaryens - just thought they were all crazy, so my perspective has changed.

The family DID. HAVE. ISSUES. But, the stories help understand a lot of it.

p.s., suggest you grab a Targ family tree. Too many names are similar/same - it helped me.

[wts]

http://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/15/41/1280x1584/gallery-1444418914-emilia-clarke-sexiest-woman-alive-2015-005.jpg

[wts]

This looks pretty good:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/448296.html

Fuck, another series to get addicted to.

[holahouze]

This looks pretty good:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/448296.html

Fuck, another series to get addicted to.

Thanks. Watched the first two episodes. Its ok - not a big fan of that time period. Will need to see more.

[holahouze]

Varys and Oleanna in Dorne? There may be hope for Dorne s6... only way to go is up.

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/10/21/spoilers-unexpected-characters-arrive-in-dorne-for-game-of-thrones-season-6/

[TheBiznessTZ]

http://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/15/41/1280x1584/gallery-1444418914-emilia-clarke-sexiest-woman-alive-2015-005.jpg

Idk she has her moments where she looks beautiful and sometimes where she looks just normal... More often than not she looks better with her natural brown hair over her blonde.

[wts]

only way to go is up.

This.

More often than not she looks better with her natural brown hair over her blonde.

Und this.

[wts]

The queen of thorns in Dorne? Dave and Dan really are wiping their asses with this series.

[AzzarTheGod]

Idk she has her moments where she looks beautiful and sometimes where she looks just normal... More often than not she looks better with her natural brown hair over her blonde.

She looks best when her face is drawn, like anyone in Hollywood.

Majority actors/actresses/models take diuretics in the days leading to a photoshoot. Would explain the "moments" along with makeup. Good makeup is an art form itself.

[Sirken]

The queen of thorns in Dorne? Dave and Dan really are wiping their asses with this series.

is there a link i missed? whered this come from?

[xKoopa]

is there a link i missed? whered this come from?

Varys and Oleanna in Dorne? There may be hope for Dorne s6... only way to go is up.

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/10/21/spoilers-unexpected-characters-arrive-in-dorne-for-game-of-thrones-season-6/

[Sirken]

the more i read about season 6, the more i really hope D&D know what they are doing. they have the chance to make it great or absolutely ruining it, and now that they are making their own source material, we shall. i for one am scared.

looks like jaime will head to riverrun in S6, i hope we see the blackfish again :D

[wts]

My expectations are really low.

[holahouze]

My expectations are really low.

Me too. Low expectations only way to go. Otherwise, we watch each episode waiting and judging and cringing - although i expect to do a fair amount of that.

The thing i'm most looking forward to in s6 is Bloodraven/Bran's storyline. The showrunners have punted on First Men, Old Gods mojo thus far, but i think its going to be huge in Martin's story and key to Jon's resurrection and learning patentage. i expect to be disappointed (in show).

A while back, predictions on s6 were raised. I watched the last couple of episodes of s5 and was going to throw some stuff out there, but i got depressed and lost steam. I did notice a couple things that i missed earlier. Here they are, tell me what you think:

1) i initially thought Trystane was a dead duck. Figured he'd be a hostage in KL, at best. Upon re-watch, i realized that they were on a Dornish ship, surrounded by Dornish crew and guard. I now think Trystane is free to do whatever he wants, and suspect Jamie ends up in KL empty-handed.

2) I was struck by how different Jon's assassination was in show vs book. In book, its carried out in daylight, in open, witnessed by competing factions, and spear-headed by bean-counter Marsh. I expect holy hell to break out. In show, it was carried out in dark, seemingly in secret, witnessed by few and lead by a-hole Thorne. The only evidence of intention was the sign. I still expect hell to break out, but it will be Jon who's bringing it.

Cheers!

[PlatLordlolz]

so, i had a game of thrones marathon, i had never seen it before 2 days ago, i finished the last episode today. WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT! the starks were the best characters, they killed them all off mosrtly, the only cool ones left were jon snow who was stabbed to death and his badass little sister Lyanna, and then they had to go make her blind WTF! all the good characters are getting killed off. why dont they go ahead and kill that cunt queen mother already. season 6 had better not fuck this up.

[holahouze]

Some spoilers. Season 6 theories. I believe in Old Nan.

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/11/06/game-of-thrones-theorycraft-the-fall-of-the-wall-and-the-battle-of-the-bastards/

[wts]

1) i initially thought Trystane was a dead duck. Figured he'd be a hostage in KL, at best. Upon re-watch, i realized that they were on a Dornish ship, surrounded by Dornish crew and guard. I now think Trystane is free to do whatever he wants, and suspect Jamie ends up in KL empty-handed.

2) I was struck by how different Jon's assassination was in show vs book. In book, its carried out in daylight, in open, witnessed by competing factions, and spear-headed by bean-counter Marsh. I expect holy hell to break out. In show, it was carried out in dark, seemingly in secret, witnessed by few and lead by a-hole Thorne. The only evidence of intention was the sign. I still expect hell to break out, but it will be Jon who's bringing it.

1. Trystane? Don't know don't care. No offense, I just have no interest in D&D's fanfic.

2. I think Howland Reed shows up at Castle Black looking for his children. Possibly the peeps (Dacy Mormont?) who were entrusted by Rob to let Jon know that he had been legimated show up at the same time and let him know he's a Stark, just in time for him to find out he's a Targaryen. Either way, Ghost is about to disembowel some fools and the wildlings are about to go apeshit. Not sure bean counter guy thought this through all the way.

WTF! all the good characters are getting killed off. why dont they go ahead and kill that cunt queen mother already. season 6 had better not fuck this up.

Welcome to ASOIAF!

[holahouze]

[QUOTE=wts;2101354]1. Trystane? Don't know don't care. No offense, I just have no interest in D&D's fanfic.

2. I think Howland Reed shows up at Castle Black looking for his children. Possibly the peeps (Dacy Mormont?) who were entrusted by Rob to let Jon know that he had been legimated show up at the same time and let him know he's a Stark, just in time for him to find out he's a Targaryen. Either way, Ghost is about to disembowel some fools and the wildlings are about to go apeshit. Not sure bean counter guy thought this through all the way.

No offense taken. Good luck with that. Much of s6 will be the showrunners' fanfic.

Howland Reed reveal would be awesome. I think/hope Bloodraven/Bran will tell Jon who he really is. But, Reed or some other extraordinary source will be needed to convince others (small o).

I agree with you about reaction to Jon's death, in-book. Marsh's actions will typify NW losing its purpose. Martin chose him for a reason. And, i am especially interested in what happens with Ghost. I would not be surprised if the show handles it differently. Thorne is a different character. Stannis men, the Queen's Guard, are not there. There's some intrigue.

Some time back on this board, i wondered who would rally the North, and someone suggested JON SNOW WILL. I think that's right. A+.

[holahouze]

McShane dropped clue during interview. Taking bets...

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/11/14/ian-mcshane-drops-hint-about-his-game-of-thrones-role/

[AzzarTheGod]

No offense taken. Good luck with that. Much of s6 will be the showrunners' fanfic.



HBO wants 8 seasons, D&D are saying no and it ends on the 7th if they run out of story. D&D said they only have so much story to tell, and HBO execs agree but are applying very gentle pressure.

If you see season 7 get split and/or extended, or even an 8th season then be very skeptical of the fanfic quality because both D&D did not wish to do this as of earlier this year 2015.

“We want to go out on our absolute highest note,” Weiss says. “We don’t want people to finally see the end and say, ‘Thank god that’s over.’” Adds Benioff: “We know basically how many hours are left in this story. We don’t want to add 10 hours to that. It’s about finding that sweet spot so it works for us and for HBO and, most of all, it works for the audience.”

[holahouze]

HBO wants 8 seasons, D&D are saying no and it ends on the 7th if they run out of story. D&D said they only have so much story to tell, and HBO execs agree but are applying very gentle pressure.

If you see season 7 get split and/or extended, or even an 8th season then be very skeptical of the fanfic quality because both D&D did not wish to do this as of earlier this year 2015.

Showrunners buy time this season re-warming some book 4 & 5 stuff and mixing in their own stories like they have been doing. Martin releases book 6 early 2016, showrunners incorporate into season 7 & 8, and wrap up season 8 with their own understanding of Martin's ending. It is written.

[wts]

He's elder bro.

[AzzarTheGod]

I hope its done right holohuze,

You familiar with how HBO and Terrence Winter handled Boardwalk Empire's final season it was very ugly. Borderline unwatchable.

I made a big mistake with the final season there and regret going into it blind and getting let down after let down with forced plots, cheapened plots, cheapened characters, abrupt and ugly conclusions, and just ugly editing and pacing compared to the 5 star show that the first 3 seasons were.

HBO and Winter had similar discussions that D&D are having, and disagreeing low key, so I am worried about a bumblefuck fizzle like so many other HBO series have had happen.

[holahouze]

He's elder bro.

Me too. Or a combination of EB and Meribald.

[holahouze]

I hope its done right holohuze,

You familiar with how HBO and Terrence Winter handled Boardwalk Empire's final season it was very ugly. Borderline unwatchable.

I made a big mistake with the final season there and regret going into it blind and getting let down after let down with forced plots, cheapened plots, cheapened characters, abrupt and ugly conclusions, and just ugly editing and pacing compared to the 5 star show that the first 3 seasons were.

HBO and Winter had similar discussions that D&D are having, and disagreeing low key, so I am worried about a bumblefuck fizzle like so many other HBO series have had happen.

While I only vaguely recall Boardwalk's last season, I understand your concern perfectly. Only wanted to point out the possibility of fresh source material for showrunners. Whether its 7 seasons or 8, my biggest concern is showrunners inventing story.

[Sidelle]

McShane dropped clue during interview. Taking bets...

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/11/14/ian-mcshane-drops-hint-about-his-game-of-thrones-role/
Sandor Clegane please. I miss him.

[Millburn]

Sandor Clegane please. I miss him.

This. This. This.

You know people are going to interpret that as him talking about our beloved Jon Snow but I would love to see this actually being about the Hound. If he actually is talking about Jon Snow then this is the most egregious of slip ups but if it's about the Hound then it's a sly and subtle troll that much much much less people are going to pick up on and I think that's totally cool.

[AzzarTheGod]

This. This. This.

You know people are going to interpret that as him talking about our beloved Jon Snow but I would love to see this actually being about the Hound. If he actually is talking about Jon Snow then this is the most egregious of slip ups but if it's about the Hound then it's a sly and subtle troll that much much much less people are going to pick up on and I think that's totally cool.

Hes playing Targaryn in a flashback from what I've read...Not a current character. King Targ was originally in Season 1 Episode 1, but they cut it all out. The actor might know that, and also was told Targ used to be someone in the series, etc. hence hes back from the dead.

Its 1 episode, so its going to be a flashback episode..Hes "back!" lol. Sorry to disappoint you guys.

[holahouze]

Hes playing Targaryn in a flashback from what I've read...Not a current character. King Targ was originally in Season 1 Episode 1, but they cut it all out. The actor might know that, and also was told Targ used to be someone in the series, etc. hence hes back from the dead.

Its 1 episode, so its going to be a flashback episode..Hes "back!" lol. Sorry to disappoint you guys.

got a link?

[Sirken]

Sandor Clegane please. I miss him.

my thoughts exactly

[AzzarTheGod]

got a link?

Can't find the king Targ rumor atm, I tried. I was on a late night tear for a few hours and had multiple tabs going flipping multiple interests. Even had 2 seperate web browser apps open, I get crazy about performance.

1 Episode only is confirmed seemingly by all media outlets but I am guessing you already have that source.

He is an incredibly talented actor, and to bring him in for 1 episode seems to indicate to me that he will indeed be playing in a flashback. Who else would he possibly play for 1 episode? Its Ian McShane... Even without the rumor source this strikes me as highly likely.

If not, I don't see him doing anything outside of the Flashback, but perhaps I could see him being brought in as one of the Jon Snow storyline associated characters for this season. Again, 1 episode seems to make this unlikely to be the case. And even without a source I am confident about the all but confirmed fact he will be "bringing someone bacK" in the form of a flashback. The more I thought about it, the more plausible it seemed.

However, with D&D's fanfiction, anything is possible. So of course, he may be the man to resurrect Jon Snow for all we know.

[holahouze]

Can't find the king Targ rumor atm, I tried. I was on a late night tear for a few hours and had multiple tabs going flipping multiple interests. Even had 2 seperate web browser apps open, I get crazy about performance.

1 Episode only is confirmed seemingly by all media outlets but I am guessing you already have that source.

He is an incredibly talented actor, and to bring him in for 1 episode seems to indicate to me that he will indeed be playing in a flashback. Who else would he possibly play for 1 episode? Its Ian McShane... Even without the rumor source this strikes me as highly likely.

If not, I don't see him doing anything outside of the Flashback, but perhaps I could see him being brought in as one of the Jon Snow storyline associated characters for this season. Again, 1 episode seems to make this unlikely to be the case. And even without a source I am confident about the all but confirmed fact he will be "bringing someone bacK" in the form of a flashback. The more I thought about it, the more plausible it seemed.

However, with D&D's fanfiction, anything is possible. So of course, he may be the man to resurrect Jon Snow for all we know.

Thanks for looking. I'm struggling to connect a Targ King to McShane's clue, even in flashback. And, i thought s1 was pretty faithful to book 1 and i can't think of anything there. Can you?

Here's where I'm placing my bet. http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/11/game-of-thrones-ian-mcshane-the-hound-returns

[holahouze]

Can't find the king Targ rumor atm, I tried. I was on a late night tear for a few hours and had multiple tabs going flipping multiple interests. Even had 2 seperate web browser apps open, I get crazy about performance.

1 Episode only is confirmed seemingly by all media outlets but I am guessing you already have that source.

He is an incredibly talented actor, and to bring him in for 1 episode seems to indicate to me that he will indeed be playing in a flashback. Who else would he possibly play for 1 episode? Its Ian McShane... Even without the rumor source this strikes me as highly likely.

If not, I don't see him doing anything outside of the Flashback, but perhaps I could see him being brought in as one of the Jon Snow storyline associated characters for this season. Again, 1 episode seems to make this unlikely to be the case. And even without a source I am confident about the all but confirmed fact he will be "bringing someone bacK" in the form of a flashback. The more I thought about it, the more plausible it seemed.

However, with D&D's fanfiction, anything is possible. So of course, he may be the man to resurrect Jon Snow for all we know.

Well... here's your link. http://www.screenhall.com/index.php/2015/10/24/15-characters-to-appear-on-game-of-thrones-season-6/14/

IMO, Jamie has effectively explained why he took Aerys down. And, i can't attach Aerys as the instrument in returning someone we thought dead or missing. There's some other b.s. speculation in this article. There are a number of characters presumed dead or missing, but I'm not liking this one. Who knows?

[AzzarTheGod]

Well... here's your link. http://www.screenhall.com/index.php/2015/10/24/15-characters-to-appear-on-game-of-thrones-season-6/14/

IMO, Jamie has effectively explained why he took Aerys down. And, i can't attach Aerys as the instrument in returning someone we thought dead or missing. There's some other b.s. speculation in this article. There are a number of characters presumed dead or missing, but I'm not liking this one. Who knows?

Yeah I'm leaning more towards it being Sandor now. I originally glossed over the casting call. When you read it, you can narrow it down to either Snow or Sandor.

Melissandre has only watched other priests bring people back, its possible she won't be performing it. I hadn't read the casting call and when you read it, the Targ thing looks very unlikely. Sandor highly likely.

Looking forward to it!

[wts]

What if Ian McShane is ...

HOWLAND REED!

[Sidelle]

What if Ian McShane is ...

HOWLAND REED!
I could probably live with that, but would still prefer Sandor.

Him and Arya's roadtrip through the Riverlands was probably my #1 favorite thing on the show. The first time I saw the scene where they finally reached the Eyrie, only to find out Lysa was dead.... ROFL. Between the look on his face and Arya laughing her ass off...

Priceless. :D

[Patriam1066]

I could probably live with that, but would still prefer Sandor.

Him and Arya's roadtrip through the Riverlands was probably my #1 favorite thing on the show. The first time I saw the scene where they finally reached the Eyrie, only to find out Lysa was dead.... ROFL. Between the look on his face and Arya laughing her ass off...

Priceless. :D

The hound is played by one of the best actors I've ever seen. The scene in the inn, with the chickens....

Lol. The only cinematic scene i've enjoyed more was Russell Crowe in gladiator saying, "My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius.... Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife, and I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25Wp6ZLk7Y

Well, actually, there's the scene between Robert De Niro and Al Pacino in Heat, where they're sitting at the diner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rIYXfztyxA

[xKoopa]

The hound is played by one of the best actors I've ever seen. The scene in the inn, with the chickens....

Lol. The only cinematic scene i've enjoyed more was Russell Crowe in gladiator saying, "My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius.... Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife, and I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25Wp6ZLk7Y

Well, actually, there's the scene between Robert De Niro and Al Pacino in Heat, where they're sitting at the diner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rIYXfztyxA

Thats p much my favorite scene

Dont fuck with the hounds chicken

[Sidelle]

The hound is played by one of the best actors I've ever seen. The scene in the inn, with the chickens....
I'd watch anything Rory McCann is in, forever.

Wait a sec... (BEWARE, possible season 6 spoilers ahead)
So I just read this article about GoT season 6 (http://www.bustle.com/articles/109356-is-the-hound-alive-on-game-of-thrones-9-things-to-expect-if-sandor-clegane-returns).
...when the first casting calls for GoT Season 6 were announced, these notices included a part referred to simply as "Priest," who's described as, "a no-nonsense rural priest who ministers to the poor of the countryside." The popular assumption is that this priest is Septon Meribald — and if his small part is being included, then it's probably to set up Sandor's "resurrection." The final hint came last month, when GoT fan site Watchers On The Wall reported that McCann had been spotted in Belfast, where filming for Season 6 is currently underway and that he was staying in the same hotel as all of his former GoT cast mates.
^^if someone else already posted this info, sorry about that. :)

http://i.imgur.com/RkxjlGW.gif

[wts]

McCann kicking it in Belfast sharing hot wings with McShane and you know this.

[holahouze]

McCann kicking it in Belfast sharing hot wings with McShane and you know this.

Ha! And drinking wine. No water, just wine.

[AzzarTheGod]

Thats p much my favorite scene

Dont fuck with the hounds chicken

lol me too, so many quotable moments in that scene. I would rewatch it now but I already played the fuck out of it months ago.

In the vein of what Patriam1066 said, hes a natural character actor. For someone who doesn't have much experience, given the performances hes turned in, should be able to find continued character acting work I would think.

This is where I am hoping D&D's fanfiction works the magic, and brings the hound back in fuller capacity. In the books he's sidelined indefinitely. If they make this happen I'll forgive the rest.

[xKoopa]

lol me too, so many quotable moments in that scene. I would rewatch it now but I already played the fuck out of it months ago.

In the vein of what Patriam1066 said, hes a natural character actor. For someone who doesn't have much experience, given the performances hes turned in, should be able to find continued character acting work I would think.

This is where I am hoping D&D's fanfiction works the magic, and brings the hound back in fuller capacity. In the books he's sidelined indefinitely. If they make this happen I'll forgive the rest.

"You lived your life for the king, are you gonna die for some chickens?"

"Someone is"

[Sirken]

I'd watch anything Rory McCann is in, forever.

Wait a sec... (BEWARE, possible season 6 spoilers ahead)
So I just read this article about GoT season 6 (http://www.bustle.com/articles/109356-is-the-hound-alive-on-game-of-thrones-9-things-to-expect-if-sandor-clegane-returns).

^^if someone else already posted this info, sorry about that. :)

http://i.imgur.com/RkxjlGW.gif

not sure if it was posted here, but ive heard it. im still upset they arent using him for euron :P

[holahouze]

The hound is played by one of the best actors I've ever seen. The scene in the inn, with the chickens....

Lol. The only cinematic scene i've enjoyed more was Russell Crowe in gladiator saying, "My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius.... Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife, and I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25Wp6ZLk7Y

Well, actually, there's the scene between Robert De Niro and Al Pacino in Heat, where they're sitting at the diner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rIYXfztyxA

The show scene in the inn was better than the book scene, imo. My favorite = "You're a talker. Listening to talkers makes me thirsty. And hungry. Think I'll take two chickens."

[AzzarTheGod]

My favorite = "You're a talker. Listening to talkers makes me thirsty. And hungry. Think I'll take two chickens."

Likewise. Drinks his ale, then drinks HIS ale too. At that point it was an ohh fuck moment, and knew this would not end well for one of the parties involved.

Perfectly acted.

[katrik]

HBO JUST RELEASED THIS.

OMGHYPE! ILOVEUJONSNOW!
http://i.imgur.com/yKT43hl.jpg

[holahouze]

Hope that's Ramsey's blood.

[Safon]

Anyone play that travesty of an Episode 6: Telltale's Game of Thrones?

[Sirken]

Anyone play that travesty of an Episode 6: Telltale's Game of Thrones?

i did, yes. not looking good for a sequel. but would be interested to compare results.

im starting to think they are going to loop around and include some book things they skipped. ie: the kingsmoot, and ie: jaime in the riverlands (even though he'll have bronn again)

also, spoilers:

saw a SS of Dany in her dothraki garb again

[holahouze]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

There's some spoilery stuff in brief post below. Look forward to Jon's resurrection scene and how Ghost might be involved. #teamGhost

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/11/25/new-reports-out-of-season-6-including-ghost-sightings/

[AzzarTheGod]

^

Thats pretty much final confirmation on Sean Bean/Tower of Joy. Nice.

And confirmation Jon Snow is on the warpath. Expect some teeth to be kicked in post-resurrection.

And if Ghost does the full resurrection I'm very cool with that. More Old Gods and less Lord of Light bullshit please.

[AzzarTheGod]

Can't edit, any insight/rumors if Walder Frey will be a factor in the Bolton/North/GoT politicking this season? Really was looking to see him in the mix, if only briefly.

[holahouze]

Can't edit, any insight/rumors if Walder Frey will be a factor in the Bolton/North/GoT politicking this season? Really was looking to see him in the mix, if only briefly.

The stuff I've read and shared here about season 6 have indicated show will be at Riverrun. Jamie rumored there, so bares some similarity to books, and so, there should be some Freys around. And, there is also this = http://winteriscoming.net/2015/08/12/david-bradley-walder-frey-spotted-heading-to-belfast/

Whatever his role, i expect Walder Frey will pay for his betrayals, and he'll be looking into the eyes of a Stark when he bites it. We'll have to see how the showrunners get us there.

I'd also like to see more Old Gods mojo. The show has a lot of catching up to do. I would be bummed out if Ghost was sacrificed to bring back Jon, which was first thing that went through my mind when i read that post. Jon will need Ghost.

[wts]

#teamGhost for life. I can taste their blood.

[holahouze]

This looks pretty good:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/448296.html

Fuck, another series to get addicted to.

I was wondering if you watched this series. I did. I liked. Have you read the book series? If so, opinion?

[holahouze]

Rumors and speculation...

I refuse to believe Jon and friends walked away from Castle Black without extracting a healthy pound of flesh...

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/11/30/spoilers-from-northern-ireland-including-info-on-the-lord-commander-of-the-nights-watch/

[AzzarTheGod]

Rumors and speculation...

I refuse to believe Jon and friends walked away from Castle Black without extracting a healthy pound of flesh...

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/11/30/spoilers-from-northern-ireland-including-info-on-the-lord-commander-of-the-nights-watch/

I view Alliser Thorne on the show as more of a misguided tragic figure. On the other hand, forgiving him doesn't seem to make sense.

Not sure where I got this sense of faux sympathy for this misguided, small minded, oh I got it. It may be because he represents "old school" blood and bone ideals, and is very principled and knightly. He believes he is doing whats right with a sense of duty, seniority, and honor.

They made sure we knew Stannis was a desperate evil madman before justice was served. Alliser Thorne still hasn't gotten that look how evil he is treatment. Thorne is more like Ned Stark. Jon killing a knight in revenge doesn't seem to fit his character, interested to see how Jon and Thorne's first interaction ends up.

[holahouze]

I view Alliser Thorne on the show as more of a misguided tragic figure. On the other hand, forgiving him doesn't seem to make sense.

Not sure where I got this sense of faux sympathy for this misguided, small minded, oh I got it. It may be because he represents "old school" blood and bone ideals, and is very principled and knightly. He believes he is doing whats right with a sense of duty, seniority, and honor.

They made sure we knew Stannis was a desperate evil madman before justice was served. Alliser Thorne still hasn't gotten that look how evil he is treatment. Thorne is more like Ned Stark. Jon killing a knight in revenge doesn't seem to fit his character, interested to see how Jon and Thorne's first interaction ends up.

I don't think Thorne is like Ned at all. The show has altered his character some by incorporating some of Bowen Marsh character. I think Martin writes him as a bitter, mean-spirited asshole. Always took a dump on Jon. Would have had Sam killed or maimed if he had his way. Allied with Slynt. Being at the Wall was his punishment for being on the losing side and he embodies what is wrong with the NW. But, that's just my opinion. ;)

[AzzarTheGod]

I don't think Thorne is like Ned at all. The show has altered his character some by incorporating some of Bowen Marsh character. I think Martin writes him as a bitter, mean-spirited asshole. Always took a dump on Jon. Would have had Sam killed or maimed if he had his way. Allied with Slynt. Being at the Wall was his punishment for being on the losing side and he embodies what is wrong with the NW. But, that's just my opinion. ;)

I hear you. The show takes the mean-spirited bitter asshole thing and somehow it came off as "mean-for-your-own-good willfully ignorant narrow minded old school asshole" for me personally.

Has Thorne ever done anything unbecoming of a knight or his vows at the wall? Forget the personality traits, the doubting and hen-pecking he has done to Jon Snow and his friends.

What I mean is, holahouze, is I can't recall a smoking gun scene (Jon Snow's death can be seen as controversial, there was a vote among the Watch on it wasn't there?) where Alliser Thorne does anything chaotic-evil in the vein of what you would expect from someone who deserves an extrajudicial cold revenge killing. Jon Snow did break his vows afterall, in some peoples opinion. By no means does this justify murder to me, but this is Martin's world.

Being an asshole, and seeing his duty and vows differently than Jon "Liberal Heart" Snow, just doesn't do it for me. They should have showed some real unbecoming of a knight example of what a conniving dirtbag he is, in my opinion.

The show made sure to get Stannis ready for a nice cold extrajudicial revenge execution by turning on his family, and Thorne wasn't really there for me yet, as he is still hiding behind his vows and acting in defense of the Watch. This is why I am excited to see how it plays out. A sticky situation to be sure!

[holahouze]

I hear you. The show takes the mean-spirited bitter asshole thing and somehow it came off as "mean-for-your-own-good willfully ignorant narrow minded old school asshole" for me personally.

Has Thorne ever done anything unbecoming of a knight or his vows at the wall? Forget the personality traits, the doubting and hen-pecking he has done to Jon Snow and his friends.

What I mean is, holahouze, is I can't recall a smoking gun scene (Jon Snow's death can be seen as controversial, there was a vote among the Watch on it wasn't there?) where Alliser Thorne does anything chaotic-evil in the vein of what you would expect from someone who deserves an extrajudicial cold revenge killing. Jon Snow did break his vows afterall, in some peoples opinion. By no means does this justify murder to me, but this is Martin's world.

Being an asshole, and seeing his duty and vows differently than Jon "Liberal Heart" Snow, just doesn't do it for me. They should have showed some real unbecoming of a knight example of what a conniving dirtbag he is, in my opinion.

The show made sure to get Stannis ready for a nice cold extrajudicial revenge execution by turning on his family, and Thorne wasn't really there for me yet, as he is still hiding behind his vows and acting in defense of the Watch. This is why I am excited to see how it plays out. A sticky situation to be sure!

I get you. Let's stick to show (as best i can). Up until the stabbing, i guess one could see Thorne as a grumpy uncle type. I took him to be more dangerous or treacherous than that, but see your point. But, surely, not like Ned.

As to the assassination attempt, i don't recall any meeting or vote on it - if that's what you're implying. it was a cabal, brought on my fear and loathing at Jon bringing wildings through the wall. It was insurrection and murder. Tricking Jon to come out of his room and carrying out the deed in the dark, on the down low. Not chivalrous or becoming of a knight (not that the show holds knights to be as such). And, after Hardhomme, it was just flat out stupid.

I expect chaos at the wall after Jon's stabbing. But, since the show appears to have turned it into a stealth move, I'm not sure. What i am sure of is, Jon returns and is fully aware of who stabbed him. Maybe magic happens, like BR or Bran visiting him while he's "out", so maybe he arises totally out of LC mode and in Jon Stark/Targaryen mode and onto other things. I just don't see him heading south without confronting the stabbing.

[wts]

TLDR warning.

I was wondering if you watched this series. I did. I liked. Have you read the book series? If so, opinion?

I've only watched the first two episodes so I'm not hooked but I liked what I saw and will be watching the entire series. I'm considering picking up the first book because it's so highly recommended by Martin.

I've kind of been looking for the next major fantasy series (yes I understand Cornwell's work is considered historical fiction, but it's close enough). In high school, I read a lot of series (stuff like Belgariad, Shannara, Lord Foul's Bane). A lot of it I didn't consider to be very good so I got away from reading fantasy. Once I started playing EQ in 99, I quickly became aware of WoT because I ran into so many people with derivative names (I always ask about names I think are cool). For example, Rhoulette, the leader of Ubi Soft's former team of professional female gamers the Frag Dolls, was Siuan on Vallon Zek.

Later EQ people also made me aware of GoT. So now I need your help once again EQ people! What should I read? LotR, GoT and WoT are the holy trinity of fantasy series for me. I consider GoT the best because I like the moral complexities more than LotR and WoT where evil is a genetic trait. If you're an orc or a trolloc or a fade, you're automatically evil. Evil is not a choice. In Game of Thrones, evil is a choice. Thus, it resonates more with me because it presents a more nuanced worldview in my opinion.

Martin particularly praises the battle scenes in Cornwell's books. My father was First Cavalry Division Airmobile infantry in 68-69 in Vietnam. In other words, although over dramatized a bit, he did this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtehtSB0LI

I grew up with my father's stories of what real guerilla warfare is like. Typically, he never saw the faces of those he was fighting. The Hueys would fly my father's company out to the middle of the jungle somewhere and they would wander around until they made contact, fire a bunch of rounds into the bush and call in a fire mission (see the movie Bat 21 for a very accurate representation of what it's like to get caught in the middle of the fire mission your company commander just called in, which happened to my dad. He was the only survivor from his platoon).

Because of my dad, I have a specific interest in military tactics (I'm also ex-Army but I was a 46Q military journalist, i.e. pencil pusher). I'm extremely critical of the way military conflicts are represented in fiction. Thus I'm curious if Cornwell is as good as Martin says he is. The BBC show is just as bad as HBO's GoT at depicting military conflicts, so I won't be watching the show for that. But I got into the characters and the story a bit so I'll be catching up on the episodes soon.

I view Alliser Thorne on the show as more of a misguided tragic figure. Not sure where I got this sense of faux sympathy for this misguided, small minded ...

Azzar I find the difference beteween our opinions of Thorne fascinating. Thorne is hands down one of my favorite characters on the show. I really think he's the best thing about the show because the showrunners used him to pull off a trick Martin uses in the books. They take a character and make you hate him initially like Martin did with Jaime, then present heroic qualities in that character which cause some viewers to sympathize with a character they previously found loathsome.

You apparently never developed the sympathies I did with Thorne. Mine are based on the seige of Castle Black. My father had his shortcomings, but whenever there was a crisis he was always at his best. When the shit hit the fan, he was always the person you turned to to analyze the situation with the coolest head. Thorne has his shortcomings as a character, but when the shit went down at Castle Black he was exactly the sort of man you want to have on your side. He didn't flinch and cower like whats his name. He led his men to victory, however temporary.

Frank Zappa has been called the most important American composer. His last band featured a bass player who had no social skills. He was a phenomenal musician but he wasn't good at small talk and social interaction. This rubbed other members of the band the wrong way and they approached Zappa and asked him to replace the bass player.

By that point, Zappa had already gone to the expense of renting rehearsal space and flying the band in to prepare for a tour. Replacing one musician in Zappa's mind would have essentially entailed starting over. Instead, Zappa fired the band, cancelled the tour and never worked with humans again. He started composing on the Synclavier, an early digital platform for music composition. He started making the music in his head, music that human beings were physically incapable of performing.

The point of the story is that Zappa felt that, even if his bass player wasn't good at social interaction, he still had value because he was world-class at one thing: playing the bass guitar. He felt like the band should have focused on the positives of what the bass player brought to the band and forgiven him for the negatives that shouldn't have impacted their ability to play music together. I can forgive Thorne for being an asshole because I know he's a good man to have around in a life or death situation.

As to the assassination attempt, i don't recall any meeting or vote on it - if that's what you're implying. it was a cabal, brought on my fear and loathing at Jon bringing wildings through the wall. It was insurrection and murder. Tricking Jon to come out of his room and carrying out the deed in the dark, on the down low. Not chivalrous or becoming of a knight.

How is it murder if Jon broke his vows and publicly proclaimed his intention to invade the Seven Kingdoms with a force of wildlings? Of course they would carry out the execution under cover of night. They know the wildlings are likely to kill them to a man once they know that Snow is dead.

[AzzarTheGod]

wts real quick, I think we are of similar opinion on Thorne's character in the show than I communicated earlier here. What I said was mostly in response to holahouze who indicated he has no sympathy for Thorne, and my sentiment may have been lost in translation.

I said I had a sense of sympathy for his character (just not explicitly stated in my posts), and that he wasn't made evil enough to make me comfortable with some type of vengeance by Jon Snow taken against him.

We're actually of very similar opinion on Thorne I think, we just articulated it differently under two different lenses. I was trying to articulate something under the lens of holahouze mentioning possible Castle Black scenes being filmed and it meaning bad news for Thorne and how that didn't really sit well with me based on how his character was developed on the show.

I am not looking forward to any possible revenge action taken against Alliser Thorne, and like you I also felt Allister Thorne had done nothing wrong in Martin's world. holahouze was neutral on it, or leaning towards the opposite.

I wasn't very explicit so I just wanted to clear that up!

[wts]

You're right it's holahouze who supports the unlawful murder of our noble Thorne! Let's hear his response to these charges!

[holahouze]

You're right it's holahouze who supports the unlawful murder of our noble Thorne! Let's hear his response to these charges!

Ha! Was just getting ready to. But first re: your other comments -- Thanks for sharing. I am of your father's age. I'm glad he made it back and thanks to both of your for your service.

Re: Last Kingdom, Battle scenes and strategy are key elements to story. Of course, the BBC doesn't have the budget to put a lot into it, so you may be disappointed in show scenes. if you read book, let me know what you think. i will do likewise.

Re: Thorne. Want to be careful to stay on show plot. For e.g., Throne didn't assassinate Jon because he was leading a wilding army south. I agree with you that Martin does a good job of writing multi-faceted characters, but show Thorne is showrunner invention. And, I agree that battle at Castle Black made Thorne appear brave and competent, even heroic.

Elsewise, i view Thorne this way. He hated Jon from his first day at the Wall. Why? Because he was on the losing side during the rebellion? Ned Stark certainly didn't send Thorne to the Wal, and what does Jon, a bastard, have to do with that anyway? He never attempted to get to know Jon. He never gave Jon an ounce of credit, nor respect. He hates Jon so much, he can't accept Jon's knowledge. He wants to execute Jon when he returns from his time with the wildings, and failing that, he sent him to Craster's with hopes he wouldn't return. He was Janos Slynt's man. He fails to accept or understand the gravity of their situation after Hardhomme (best scene ever IMO). He's simply on the wrong side of nearly every issue he's involved in, and I fail to see how fragging Jon makes him noble or true to his NW vows.

Here's my half-assed guess of happens next at Wall. Thorne tries to pin Jon's assassination on the wildings.

[holahouze]

You're right it's holahouze who supports the unlawful murder of our noble Thorne! Let's hear his response to these charges!

P.S., Bryndenbfish does some detailed ASOIAF battle/military strategies on his site. Too deep for me, but you might enjoy. Google it up.

[wts]

Google it up.

Will do thanks. From the Night's Watch vow:

I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post.

Attacking Ramsey at Winterfell is an attempt to win glory. Winterfell is not Jon's post. The Wall is. He broke his vows.

[holahouze]

Will do thanks. From the Night's Watch vow:

I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post.

Attacking Ramsey at Winterfell is an attempt to win glory. Winterfell is not Jon's post. The Wall is. He broke his vows.

I don't possess a lot of "walking around" memory of details, so I'll have to go back at some point and re-watch or search. But, my memory is, Jon was not assassinated because he was heading to Winterfell in the show. No pink letter in the show. I understood Thorne and his buddies killing Jon because he'd allied with Wildings.

Conversely, in-book, Aliser Thorne wasn't present when Jon was assassinated.

I would argue, in-show, that Jon was upholding NW vows. Getting those wildings south of wall did two things to "guard the realms of men". 1) increased manpower to fight Others, and 2) reduced the Others potential forces. Again, I thought the Hardhome scene was fabulous. Truly conveyed stakes/risk that neither show or book had to that point.

The other aspect of Jon's assassination is, why? That was Thorne's only available course of action? That could be seen as an act of treason itself.

I recall you being on #teamGhost. I don't think you can be #teamGhost and a charter member of Aliser Thorne fan club. :)

[AzzarTheGod]

I recall you being on #teamGhost. I don't think you can be #teamGhost and a charter member of Aliser Thorne fan club. :)

Sure he can. Jon can choose to agree to disagree with Alliser Thorne over his interpretation of the vows and his duty, and then they can part ways. Alliser Thorne remains at the Wall as commander, and Jon goes on his campaign. :)

[holahouze]

Sure he can. Jon can choose to agree to disagree with Alliser Thorne over his interpretation of the vows and his duty, and then they can part ways. Alliser Thorne remains at the Wall as commander, and Jon goes on his campaign. :)

That would be wicked awful storytelling, IMO.

Really, I wonder why Thorne let Jon and wildings through gate - if he truly thought the wildings were going to endanger NW and the realm. Might have thought he wouldn't have the support to do that. Might have preferred burying the knife himself... cause he had Jon Snow issues.

I'll give you this - the NW is going down. Hard. I'm okay with Thorne being at the helm when it happens. Similar to his epiphany on the wall during battle of Castle Black, his last thought will probably be - Jon Snow was right. :eek:

[wts]

My memory is, Jon was not assassinated because he was heading to Winterfell in the show. No pink letter in the show. I understood Thorne and his buddies killing Jon because he'd allied with Wildings.

I recall you being on #teamGhost. I don't think you can be #teamGhost and a charter member of Aliser Thorne fan club. :)

Haha I'll have to watch the episode again. Just because I think Thorne's actions were justified doesn't mean Ghost has to go hungry!

[xKoopa]

Will do thanks. From the Night's Watch vow:

I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post.

Attacking Ramsey at Winterfell is an attempt to win glory. Winterfell is not Jon's post. The Wall is. He broke his vows.

Not sure if its been mentioned (GoT has been theory crafted so much), but if jon died and was revived, would he be released from his vows? That would let him go south and etc honorably

[Sidelle]

Not sure if its been mentioned (GoT has been theory crafted so much), but if jon died and was revived, would he be released from his vows? That would let him go south and etc honorably
Yes. Definitely released! And Ghost better be by his side again. I don't give a shit how expensive CGI is. :D

https://41.media.tumblr.com/ea695bbd7502541568e5b4880d18aab3/tumblr_nxtmnzLeGJ1ukzpsqo2_r2_540.png

[holahouze]

Sure he can. Jon can choose to agree to disagree with Alliser Thorne over his interpretation of the vows and his duty, and then they can part ways. Alliser Thorne remains at the Wall as commander, and Jon goes on his campaign. :)

I doubt they will disagree about who stabbed who though. Like, "Aliser, well met! Last time i saw you, you'd lured me into a dark corner of Castle Black and stabbed me..."

Several weeks ago I hung a post on here where I said I was caught off guard by the differences between how show handled the assassination. I don't have a clue how show will handle his resurrection, so I'm open for ideas. So, take me through it. Aliser and crew lie to Jon and lure him, kill him, he rises from dead, they shake on it and part on good or neutral terms...

[holahouze]

Haha I'll have to watch the episode again. Just because I think Thorne's actions were justified doesn't mean Ghost has to go hungry!

Really? The showrunners turn your guy into an insurrection-leading, savior-killing, a-hole -- I would have expected the Thorne fan club to have their shorts in a bunch over this. :D

Seriously, I'm well adjusted to Jon's death. Doesn't mean I'm ok with guy(s) who did it, but I knew it was coming and was necessary. I don't know what's going to happen when he comes back. I'm open to your ideas. But, I struggle with notion that Jon and Aliser are going to just let bygones be bygones and go their separate ways.

Does the fan club give out "Aliser for 999th LC" buttons? I want one. ;)

[Patriam1066]

I think ghost is going to die. Jon's destiny involves a dragon. Can he be a skin changer and a dragon rider? He can't be that legit can he???

[holahouze]

I think ghost is going to die. Jon's destiny involves a dragon. Can he be a skin changer and a dragon rider? He can't be that legit can he???

Ghost might be the price of resurrection. I'm not in love with riding dragons. I guess, ever since I read the Princess and the Queen and Rogue Prince stories, the dragons and Targaryens will end up killing each other. They can't help themselves.

[Sidelle]

Anyone else ever get crazy ideas in their head like this:

So Jon's dead. Doesn't get resurrected by Melissandre because maybe the White Walkers snatch him up first? (No, not to become a wight). Their leader seemed very interested in Jon, no? He may be half Targaryen, but I think the Stark in him runs deeper. Plus, I kinda think they have the old gods in common. And, he's a warg for a reason. A gift from the old gods to the Starks.

I guess I'm just not completely convinced that the White Walkers are the bad guys yet. Might be followers of the old gods too. Need more info. I think Rh'llor is a real dick so far, though...

Then maybe some of the Bloodraven and Bran north of the wall storyline will come together with Jon somehow? I've always been really interested in knowing exactly why Bran is a greenseer. He can control people's minds, no one has ever been able to do that before (according to the books and the show).

And fuck them dragons. Look at Dany trying to control those assholes with no Dragonbinder or knowledge of the spells to keep them under control. They're pretty useless and that weakens her position big time.

Anyways, I love trying to guess what's gonna happen. :)

[Lune]

Then maybe some of the Bloodraven and Bran north of the wall storyline will come together with Jon somehow? I've always been really interested in knowing exactly why Bran is a greenseer. He can control people's minds, no one has ever been able to do that before (according to the books and the show).

Bran's storyline:

http://i.imgur.com/cIK95RR.jpg

No high hopes here

[Patriam1066]

Bran will be important as fuck. His story is and will remain boring though IMO. Minus skinchanging a dragon...

I agree with you sidelle. For the longest time I thought Jon would be the ice to Dany's Fire, and perhaps " balance the force" on the side of the Others, so to speak. Given the photos from season 6, however, with Jon wearing Robb's King in the North garb, I think he's going to be unambiguously "good".

As for the Others and the old gods..... I've become convinced by Preston's videos that the old gods are really just children of the Forest skinchanging, sending dreams, and using the tree network to spy on people. I believe they are neither on the side of mankind nor the Others. That said, I have no clue what role bloodraven and bran would play.

[holahouze]

Anyone else ever get crazy ideas in their head like this:

So Jon's dead. Doesn't get resurrected by Melissandre because maybe the White Walkers snatch him up first? (No, not to become a wight). Their leader seemed very interested in Jon, no? He may be half Targaryen, but I think the Stark in him runs deeper. Plus, I kinda think they have the old gods in common. And, he's a warg for a reason. A gift from the old gods to the Starks.

I guess I'm just not completely convinced that the White Walkers are the bad guys yet. Might be followers of the old gods too. Need more info. I think Rh'llor is a real dick so far, though...

Then maybe some of the Bloodraven and Bran north of the wall storyline will come together with Jon somehow? I've always been really interested in knowing exactly why Bran is a greenseer. He can control people's minds, no one has ever been able to do that before (according to the books and the show).

And fuck them dragons. Look at Dany trying to control those assholes with no Dragonbinder or knowledge of the spells to keep them under control. They're pretty useless and that weakens her position big time.

Anyways, I love trying to guess what's gonna happen. :)

I don't have the imagination to get deep into long range stuff. But, I think the Others storyline has something to do with a long-standing promise or treaty that has been forgotten and broken. I think the current state of the NW has something to do with it. You start with the idea that the Wall was meant to keep the Others apart from rest of the continent and you see current state NW spending all their time fretting about Wildings. I think Martin set the stage for this screw-up in the prologue of first book. The Starks, Wardens of the North and family mostly closely connected to the Wall and its purpose, gather up Gared as a deserter and promptly lop off his head. The Others could have easily run down Gared and killed him, but they didn't. This was the warning signal, that the Starks missed. Ned's first mistake. And, then Martin proceeds to spend 100s, maybe 1000s of pages letting us think that the Wildings were some massive threat to the realm. Way wrong IMO.

So yeah, the Others are coming. That Hardhomme episode was awesome, as it presented us (me) with the scale of their threat, that even Martin has not delivered thus far. And, Bloodraven, while I'm sure he'll be interested in fAegon if he's a Blackfyre, has put Old God's magic in play + pulled in Bran to figure out what to do about the Others. I think ultimately, this is where Jon's future contributions lie.

As for Dany and her dragons. The iron throne will continue to be important, so she will be. I think the idea that fAegon could be a Blackfyre adds a great deal to storyline. The Blackfyres were crazy about getting the throne.

I'm all in.

[James_Joyce]

I've watched the series but I don't read too deep into the lore and I haven't read the books or anything.

What's with all the theorycraft here? Isn't this all spelled out and spoiled in the books? Or is there already a large divergence from the source material?

sry if this has been answered but 240 pages

[holahouze]

I've watched the series but I don't read too deep into the lore and I haven't read the books or anything.

What's with all the theorycraft here? Isn't this all spelled out and spoiled in the books? Or is there already a large divergence from the source material?

sry if this has been answered but 240 pages

Fair amount of stuff going on. Book readers have been waiting for 6th book for 5 years. Book narrative provides a lot of clues, potential paths, for sorting out future plot, and the author's slow writing process has allowed tons of time for careful readers to analyze and speculate. Google around, you'll be shocked.

The show has had to pick and choose which of the author's material to use -- we're talking about 5000 pages of content. And, they've used up a lot of source material. So, we're guessing what's next. For e.g., Jon's apparently dead in both books and show, what happens next...?

[Sirken]

Season 6 Teaser Trailer

https://youtu.be/9eviiCgwtQs

no new video, just some audio from Bloodraven

[Redi]

dont tease

[wts]

Does the fan club give out "Aliser for 999th LC" buttons? I want one. ;)

I'm going to make this happen.

Sidelle, here's the playlist for Preston's Mind of Wolves and Robins series if you haven't watched it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMgUIPvAlLI&list=PLCsx_OFEYH6vAkHO0gakDrZ8Kuteu-nUn

A lot of stuff relevant to your speculation.

[Sidelle]

Bran's storyline:

http://i.imgur.com/cIK95RR.jpg

No high hopes here
ROFL. Perfect. :)
Bran will be important as fuck. His story is and will remain boring though IMO. Minus skinchanging a dragon...

I agree with you sidelle. For the longest time I thought Jon would be the ice to Dany's Fire, and perhaps " balance the force" on the side of the Others, so to speak. Given the photos from season 6, however, with Jon wearing Robb's King in the North garb, I think he's going to be unambiguously "good".

As for the Others and the old gods..... I've become convinced by Preston's videos that the old gods are really just children of the Forest skinchanging, sending dreams, and using the tree network to spy on people. I believe they are neither on the side of mankind nor the Others. That said, I have no clue what role bloodraven and bran would play.
Yes. Jon just can't help himself. He'll always be the good guy.

I'm hopeful that shit's gonna be exciting for the upcoming books, though I do have concerns about the show ruining it somehow before books come out. Sounds like I need to check in with Preston again. I've either forgotten or missed some stuff.

[Sidelle]

I've watched the series but I don't read too deep into the lore and I haven't read the books or anything.

What's with all the theorycraft here? Isn't this all spelled out and spoiled in the books? Or is there already a large divergence from the source material?

sry if this has been answered but 240 pages
Pretty much what hola just said. It's been a long wait for book six, to put it calmly. I read the books before the show came out so for all these years I've been spoiled a little by that. All that time waiting to see Jon come back from the dead because when I first read that I had a shitfit, yelled out loud "omg nooo" and "goddamn GRRM better not die before he finishes this shit up right" (yes, that was kind of an asshole thingto say. I know. Lol). Oh, and then finally getting a little bit of hope that "Dany is figuring things out as she stumbles through the Dothraki Sea. She might be close to getting her shit together after all" followed by "ohh shiiiit, a khalasar headed by dude that hates her where the FUCK is Drogon? Dracarys, mfkers!" :D

5 years later. Still waiting to see what happened...

[Sidelle]

I'm going to make this happen.

Sidelle, here's the playlist for Preston's Mind of Wolves and Robins series if you haven't watched it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMgUIPvAlLI&list=PLCsx_OFEYH6vAkHO0gakDrZ8Kuteu-nUn

A lot of stuff relevant to your speculation.
Thank you. Gonna watch right now. ;)

[AzzarTheGod]

Season 6 Teaser Trailer

https://youtu.be/9eviiCgwtQs

no new video, just some audio from Bloodraven

Teasers very tease, much fast. Give me a trailer please.

Thanks for that link wts.

[Sidelle]

I'm just about to watch part 5 of The Minds of Wolves and Robins. I had no idea how facinating these would be or I definitely would have watched them sooner. Some of the theories are really mind-blowing. I like the way he thinks.

Ok, gonna watch 5 now. Apparently he's gonna talk about Sweetrobin. Lol can't wait.

Thanks again.

[wts]

Yes I'd like a ruling from Sirken on this immediately. Do you still consider Preston tinfoily or just pure genius at this point? =)

[Patriam1066]

Well, I don't know if Preston is a genius, but I do think, given what GRRM has written in the past, that all of the "gods" in ASOIAF are manifestations of magic, telepathy, charlatanism, etc, rather than the actions / powers of real divine beings. Oh, and in case it wasn't clear, I'm giving credit to Preston's videos for me coming to that conclusion, since I've read none of Martin's previous novels.

[Patriam1066]

I'm just about to watch part 5 of The Minds of Wolves and Robins. I had no idea how facinating these would be or I definitely would have watched them sooner. Some of the theories are really mind-blowing. I like the way he thinks.

Ok, gonna watch 5 now. Apparently he's gonna talk about Sweetrobin. Lol can't wait.

Thanks again.

That's the one thing I don't like about Preston. If he's right about sweetrobin, that will be very poor storytelling IMO. Mostly by the showrunners rather than GRRM

I really think the kid dies in the next book though. Baelish needs Harry the Heir to marry Sansa. Then, once she kills Harry and Baelish, Sansa will use the Knights of the Vale to protect her child (by Harry), aka use them to conquer the seven kingdoms in either her son's name OR in the name of Jon Snow.

I actually have no idea what she'll do, but I see Sweetrobin being a major obstacle to Sansa becoming queen of westeros, which is what I fully expect to happen.

[MrSparkle001]

Pretty much what hola just said. It's been a long wait for book six, to put it calmly. I read the books before the show came out so for all these years I've been spoiled a little by that. All that time waiting to see Jon come back from the dead because when I first read that I had a shitfit, yelled out loud "omg nooo" and "goddamn GRRM better not die before he finishes this shit up right" (yes, that was kind of an asshole thingto say. I know. Lol). Oh, and then finally getting a little bit of hope that "Dany is figuring things out as she stumbles through the Dothraki Sea. She might be close to getting her shit together after all" followed by "ohh shiiiit, a khalasar headed by dude that hates her where the FUCK is Drogon? Dracarys, mfkers!" :D

5 years later. Still waiting to see what happened...

Wasn't Drogon with her when the khalasar found her? In the books not the series.

[Sidelle]

Wasn't Drogon with her when the khalasar found her? In the books not the series.
Oh yea, you're right. Lol. I do that sometimes. When I think back on the story and there have been changes from the book to show sometimes I forget which version I'm recalling.

[holahouze]

Theorycrafting from WIC... http://winteriscoming.net/2015/12/05/game-of-thrones-theorycraft-will-bran-be-involved-in-jon-snows-resurrection/

Now, I know the first part will disappoint you, Azzar and wts, but try to keep an open mind. I'm down with the 2nd part, but would really prefer Mel had nothing to do with Jon's resurrection.

[wts]

What you think I'm worried Thorne is going to bite it on the show? Actually I can envision a scenario where Snow and Thorne play nice. Melly rez's Jon and he wakes up and is like "sorry I broke my vows dudes, but I died so I'm no longer night's watch so I do what I want" and takes off for Winterfell. Bloody revenge is kind of predictable, so I doubt they go that way. But like I said, Ghost gotta eat. If he snacks on Thorne, so be it. Not really invested in what happens on the show.

[holahouze]

What you think I'm worried Thorne is going to bite it on the show? Actually I can envision a scenario where Snow and Thorne play nice. Melly rez's Jon and he wakes up and is like "sorry I broke my vows dudes, but I died so I'm no longer night's watch so I do what I want" and takes off for Winterfell. Bloody revenge is kind of predictable, so I doubt they go that way. But like I said, Ghost gotta eat. If he snacks on Thorne, so be it. Not really invested in what happens on the show.

Hey. Just kidding around - since we were just on that topic. I went back and read the first couple chapters of the first book the other day. I think Bloodraven communicated directly with Jon when he turned back to find Ghost. He's been helping Jon since the second chapter. I think Jon will end up doing whatever he learns from Bloodraven and/or Bran when he's out. ;)

[wts]

You wear the tinfoil well =)

[holahouze]

You wear the tinfoil well =)

Tinfoil needed to keep aliens from reading one's mind. A man knows.

BR sent the direwolves to Starks. Jon heard Ghost when no one else could - yet Ghost is know being silent. The raven told Jon Bran was going to live. It told Jon to burn the wight in Mormont's room. It burst out of crock during election and swayed vote. He called Jon "King". Ghost lead Jon to the obsidian cache on the Fist. BR sent Coldhands to save Sam's bacon (great scene), and later to lead Bran to the Cave. Etc. Etc. BR's got the Old God's skills. You on-board?

[wts]

It is known.

[AenorVZ]

Double post. That new Preston joint is hot.

[holahouze]

Pretty quiet around here. Here's something to think about -- Roose drops some hints. I have a feeling Dany won't see the WWs in the book.

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/12/15/natalie-dormer-teases-the-very-interesting-and-independent-season-6/

[AenorVZ]

Found this on page four slackers.

[holahouze]

Found this on page four slackers.

Board is in a prolonged slump.

HBO started re-running Game of Thrones series couple of days ago and i've caught about a half dozen episodes here and there. I'm sure this board was all over it at the time, but cutting Coldhands was a cheap story-telling shortcut. Unforced error.

[Safon]

WHERE THE FUCK IS BOOK 6

[holahouze]

WHERE THE FUCK IS BOOK 6

The crypts of Winterfell? Hardhome? I read books several years ago, so 6 is the first one I've had to wait on. I was thinking recently about all the loose plots were out there, and how hard it will be to wrap them all up - if that's Martin's intention. Simple stuff, like, Rob's wife. We ever gonna know what happened to her? What about Robert's bastards? They gonna figure into this somehow?

Anyway, how will you prepare for 6 when release date announced? Will you re-read? How much? Where will you start?

[Filthy_Pagan]

I heard snape kills dumbledore, and Bruce Willis was dead all along.

[AzzarTheGod]

Anyway, how will you prepare for 6 when release date announced? Will you re-read? How much? Where will you start?

What are they talkin for 6? April 2016? Or we going into the summer?

[Safon]

The crypts of Winterfell? Hardhome? I read books several years ago, so 6 is the first one I've had to wait on. I was thinking recently about all the loose plots were out there, and how hard it will be to wrap them all up - if that's Martin's intention. Simple stuff, like, Rob's wife. We ever gonna know what happened to her? What about Robert's bastards? They gonna figure into this somehow?

Anyway, how will you prepare for 6 when release date announced? Will you re-read? How much? Where will you start?

I have considered re-reading many times, but the thought of stomaching Bran's chapters again, and many of Brienne's makes me cringe.

[holahouze]

What are they talkin for 6? April 2016? Or we going into the summer?

I recall reading Martin said he'd like book 6 to be released before season 6. That would be sweet. But, i haven't heard a peep about it recently. So, only the Gods and Martin knows.

[holahouze]

I have considered re-reading many times, but the thought of stomaching Bran's chapters again, and many of Brienne's makes me cringe.

I feel you. Book 5 my least favorite. I struggled with Daenerys chapters and was put off my the Griff introduction. But, Bran is going to be uber important, and I have this feeling that Book 5 will be better next round. Still, I'm in no rush, partly because my book loaned and has gone walk about, but partly because it was work getting through it.

[AenorVZ]

I was thinking recently about all the loose plots were out there, and how hard it will be to wrap them all up

Easy. Howland should show up at Castle Black in the prologue and take a massive infodump on Jon Snow's corpse.

[holahouze]

WHERE THE FUCK IS BOOK 6

From the man himself. Some interesting insight, but... you're not going to like it. i didn't.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/

[AzzarTheGod]

From the man himself. Some interesting insight, but... you're not going to like it. i didn't.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/

The deadline aside..

Being reminded that these characters are alive in the books, isn't going to make anyone feel all that chipper...

Princess Myrcella, Mance Rayder, and King Stannis

As GRRM said, the show moved very fast, much faster than anyone could have anticipated. There are plotlines that could have been kept/expanded.

At least I don't have to worry about them cheapening anymore characters/plots for the sake of the TV show pacing. I just hope this doesn't affect GRRM's writing for the worst. I don't care about the deadline or that Season 6 is slated for April. I got the impression reading that blog that GRRM is struggling, and now with season 6 airing during his creative process, there is a risk of contamination, regardless of what GRRM and D&D claim about working together. It is obvious they are not of a single mind. That post just threw it in D&D's face for not pacing the show better.

[beyondinfin]

As much fun as the show is, the REAL story is gonna be them beautiful damn books. Id wait 10 years for TWOW! Here's hoping the show and public opinion from it doesn't change GRRM vision as it stands now.

[James_Joyce]

Seems like to try and compensate for the glacial pace of the previous seasons, the most recent season of this show totally glossed over certain aspects of the plot. Most glaringly, the Faiths Militant assuming total control of king's landing when they have had so little screen time that there's literally only one speaking character from the faction, and a couple of minions with shit carved on their foreheads. Major boner killer to have the big dramatic season finale depend on a faction that was so poorly fleshed out acting like big bad misogynists chanting "shame shame".

Here's hoping they can finally hit their stride in the next season and have some actual plot happen without the show degenerating into JJ Abrams videogame cutscene pacing.

[AenorVZ]

Here's hoping for world peace and free donuts. =)

[Sirken]

Yes I'd like a ruling from Sirken on this immediately. Do you still consider Preston tinfoily or just pure genius at this point? =)

depends on which specific video you are referring to as well. any theory he has thats based around the "no lemon trees in bravos" is straight up tinfoil. GRRM admitted Dany's back story changed a bit from book 1 to book 2, the lemon tree theory is crap.

also, i think the R+L=D & B+A=J theories are complete garbage as well. the timeline for Brandon and Ashara is sketchy at best. the R&L timeline is near perfect. im sure somehow Ashara was involved, or had knowledge of the Tower of Joy, but thats it.

im actually surprised he hasnt done a better set of videos regarding Young Griff's traveling companions. with one being for sure Jon Connington, i'd bet real good dollars that the septa with them is actually Ashara Dayne. that description is too good. furthermore, Connington left under the veil of being a disgrace, people might have a hard time believing him if he just showed up and said it was Rhaegars kid. but with Ashara Dayne, Connington can be cleared and Ashara can legitimize Young Griff as Aegon.

all that said, i really think Aegon could be a blackfyre and could be the son of Illyrio's wife.

but what do i know :p

[Sirken]

What are they talkin for 6? April 2016? Or we going into the summer?

this year, May 2016

[Sirken]

Winds of Winter delayed :(

http://grrm.livejournal.com/465247.html

[Sidelle]

Don't be a Negative Nancy. He's working really hard on finishing Winds of Winter. See?

http://45.media.tumblr.com/de9e16af84d3d54c96ef642b008eba66/tumblr_nrc8iyF8Hm1qdqyxho2_500.gif

http://57.media.tumblr.com/4913a9a8eb2f4342c27225a1114e63b7/tumblr_nrc8iyF8Hm1qdqyxho3_500.gif

http://45.media.tumblr.com/9f86c842e700d076dafa40a023e3c4e6/tumblr_nrc8iyF8Hm1qdqyxho1_500.gif

[Big_Japan]

holding my breath waiting for him to break his leg when that groaning trampoline gasps its last

[SHOWITME]

i hope he dies before he finishes his next book

[AzzarTheGod]

I thought he lost some weight for health reasons because people were harassing him about it.

Looks like the next .gif is going to be him biting into a triple stack.

[derpcake]

this makes sense

[Sirken]

April 24th confirmed release for season 6 premiere

(https://youtu.be/I4o-Nzi84Hw)

[Safon]

I can't even get frustrated anymore with these delays, he'll have my money when and if it does get releaed, and i'll almost certainly enjoy reading it. That said, I give less of a fuck with each passing day.

and I doubt we will ever see book 7.

[AenorVZ]

lol Sidelle.

[Patriam1066]

Bump. Also, sad news that he didn't finish the book. I guess we're all gonna have to decide whether or not to watch the show or wait for book 6...

I'm envious of those of you who care less about these books. I just got done rereading A Storm of Swords and all I can say is I'm obsessed with them.

[Sirken]

and I doubt we will ever see book 7.

this is my big fear. book 6 will come out.. eventually. but to start another fresh 1500 page tome, i just dont know if he still has it in him. if i were him id finish book 7 and never release it

[Filthy_Pagan]

this is my big fear. book 6 will come out.. eventually. but to start another fresh 1500 page tome, i just dont know if he still has it in him. if i were him id finish book 7 and never release it

Well once he's killed off all the characters, he'll only have himself left to kill.

[AenorVZ]

also, i think the R+L=D & B+A=J theories are complete garbage as well.

Okay if you say so. But if Jon is the holy savior then Neds internal monologue regarding him doesn't make sense. It also makes no sense that he did so little for Jon but moved heaven and earth for Dany.

[AzzarTheGod]

Okay if you say so. But if Jon is the holy savior then Neds internal monologue regarding him doesn't make sense. It also makes no sense that he did so little for Jon but moved heaven and earth for Dany.

Yeah I won't call the theory garbage. But its really pushing the tin.

[James_Joyce]

B+J=A-OK

[Filthy_Pagan]

B+J=A-OK

[AzzarTheGod]

B+J=A-OK

[holahouze]

this is my big fear. book 6 will come out.. eventually. but to start another fresh 1500 page tome, i just dont know if he still has it in him. if i were him id finish book 7 and never release it

My fear, too. Actuarial tables tilting the wrong way, and he's comfortable, wealthy, and has other interests. Besides, you don't see a lot of creativity/output from artists in the 4th quarter. Bummer to think about.

[holahouze]

Okay if you say so. But if Jon is the holy savior then Neds internal monologue regarding him doesn't make sense. It also makes no sense that he did so little for Jon but moved heaven and earth for Dany.

After i finished the first book, I went googling around looking for explanations for Ned's behavior (Ned's meeting with Cersei in the godswood was a turn-off for me). This is how i stumbled upon R+L=J. Gobsmacked. I then went back and read all of Ned's POVs to figure out what I'd missed. There's roughly 150 Ned POV pages, but really very little there. Just not much Jon in his internal monologue -- several thoughts that separate Jon from the kids; an opportunity or two to call Jon his son, but he doesn't. I guess we're left with Ned's honor sacrifice to protect Jon's true identity to be the ultimate sacrifice. For Dany, he was willing to sacrifice the position of Hand and Robert's friendship, but not his honor. I won't flip out if R+L=/=J, but I'm on-board with Jon being ice & fire.

[AenorVZ]

Yeah I'm not saying ambiguity = proof that Preston is right. But man, there's enough ambiguity there to drive a truck through.

[holahouze]

Yeah I'm not saying ambiguity = proof that Preston is right. But man, there's enough ambiguity there to drive a truck through.

Agreed. Although there are others, much more invested than me, that would argue PJ's timeline is all wrong. I've never been motivated to check this out, but I started trusting those arguments after sorting out Ned's motivation for keeping Jon's identify a secret.

Ned's honor code was a distraction for me on first readings. I liked the Starks, and I liked Ned's character, so his placing his honor over smart/practical thinking made me question Martin's storytelling. But, having read it over and over, it started to sink in. Sacrificing his honor to protect R+L=J makes sense. Sacrificing his honor to protect his nephew doesn't.

I hope this pays off. Because at this point, Ned's honor benefited the Targaryen and Baratheon/Lannister kids while punishing his own.

[Sirken]

Hola, he'd be protecting his nephew either way ;)

[holahouze]

Hola, he'd be protecting his nephew either way ;)

Whoops! Yeah, poor choice of words. You know what i meant though. ;)

[Sirken]

Whoops! Yeah, poor choice of words. You know what i meant though. ;)

its true. but not only is the timeline a bit off, he also makes some leaps and assumptions to fill in blanks. such as how much free time Brandon has between arrival and apprehension, as well as all of Ashara's actions and locations. its one of the theories that i think hes trying to force. also, anything that he uses the house with the red door / lemon trees arguement with. as GRRM has already addressed that inconsistency.

(also, i might spam the hell out of this thread today, things are slow at work :P )

[Spyder73]

There is roughly a 0% chance that he will be able to finish this in 2 books. The way he writes and all the crap he has going on is too much. Even if he somehow focuses everything (which would be a foreign invasion from Danny), I just dont see it.

The narrative is already laid out though. Danny will unite the Dothraki Tribes, take back over her city, sail to Westeros where her brother(?)(Griff?) will have recruited Dorn already, Danny will serve justice to all, then Danny will fly her Dragons to the wall and kill all the White Walkers and rule the Seven Kingdoms.

I am curious what role Bran will play in the next book since I feel it will heavily rely on him. IF Jon Snow is actually dead, we will need a new character to follow around on the wall and in the North, but that could easily be Bran

[Sirken]

Jon isn't dead. hes literally the only character with plot armor in the whole story.

while i dont disagree with you that it cant be finished correctly in 2 books, thats not what i'm trying to say. what im saying is that i dont think he'll every write/finish book 7. i think the only reason we'll get book 6 is because so much is already done. but i dont expect book 6 to be of the same quality.

[Spyder73]

The last book was one of my favorites of the entire series, so I don't think the quality will necessarily dip as much as people's expectations will be unrealistic. Everyone is going to be looking for notable deaths in every chapter and thats just not the way these things work. The closing sequence of book 5 was just amazing. Dannys city is going to complete sh!t, she is being ousted as ruler, the locals are taking over, her Dragons are becoming a liability.....and then she rides one off into the middle of the largest Dorthraki horde on the planet and they all kneel and start chanting Khalisee or whatever.

Going to be very disappointed if Jon is not dead. If somehow Bran is the one who gives him life back then I would be OK with it. But as much as GRRM will take things to the mystical realm (especially in the North), the book pretty clearly paints a picture of Snow getting Caser'd to death by an entire group of people, all with daggers. Then again Jon Snow seems to be his favorite character and he has relied HEAVILY on him. Maybe that makes it all the more jarring though. Keeping Jon alive just opens up more story lines to close, so from a completion angle - killing him off makes the most sense, you don't have to answer any questions surrounding him, Ned, Ned's sister, and Rhaegar.


Side note - have you read any of the new Brandon Sanderson books? I think the series is called The Storm Light Archive. I read the first 2 and its as good if not better than GoT.

I didnt start reading until a few years ago, but I have been plowing through books (I read at work and before bed everyday now).

I have completed
Storm Light Archives - 2 books
King Killer Chronicles - 2 books
Game of Thrones - 5 books
Wheel of Time series - 13 books
Malazan Book of the Fallen - on book 9 of 10

EDIT: He will absolutely finish the series - he may wait for HBO to write it for him and then just copy it, but it will definitely get done

[Sirken]

im not saying that book 7 will lack quality due to age, im just saying i think that because i dont think his heart is in yet anymore. sure he loves the world, the characters, the story, etc. but it gets to a point that you are no longer writing for yourself, youre writing for fans, critics, or just other people. i think IF he finishes book 7, it wont be as good because he wont care as much.

he has stated multiple times that Tyrion is his favorite character, and that Arya is his wife's favorite character. but due to R+L=J, Jon actually is the only character in the entire story that actually has plot armor (at least until thats revealed). i think it more likely that Dany will die before Jon Snow. Jon is the prince that was promised, for his is the song of ice and fire ;)

and i dont expect it to be Bran that revives Jon. i think theres a reason Melisandre is still at the wall. AND i think theres a reason that the show decided to have Mel and Thoros meet up, and then discuss what was going on with Beric.

i think theres a lot of signs that Jon will be rezzed (including the entire prologue of book 5), and i think Mel will do it. i think Bran will be limited to flashbacks mostly, however, i saw a shot of him outside the cave and on a horse, so who knows :P

[Spyder73]

You are over rating Jon's significance greatly.

The Dragon has 3 heads, so he may be one of them, but Danny is the GOAT of the books and will remain the main character and ultimate victor

[holahouze]

Jon isn't dead. hes literally the only character with plot armor in the whole story.

while i dont disagree with you that it cant be finished correctly in 2 books, thats not what i'm trying to say. what im saying is that i dont think he'll every write/finish book 7. i think the only reason we'll get book 6 is because so much is already done. but i dont expect book 6 to be of the same quality.

I think you mean, he won't stay dead :) -- as your resurrection comment implies below. I think his death will have meaning. I concede Melisandre is in place to have a role in resurrection. It might be the only thing she could do to absolve herself given her errors in judgement/fire readings. I would prefer the Old Gods magic play at least some role. Maybe some Wall magic - it was built with blood and magic.

I worry about the completion of the series. But know what else? I'm addicted to the D&E stories right now. Lot of re-re-re-reading. I love Egg's humor and Dunk's honor and steadfastness. The future for more of these not looking so good, either.

[holahouze]

There is roughly a 0% chance that he will be able to finish this in 2 books. The way he writes and all the crap he has going on is too much. Even if he somehow focuses everything (which would be a foreign invasion from Danny), I just dont see it.

The narrative is already laid out though. Danny will unite the Dothraki Tribes, take back over her city, sail to Westeros where her brother(?)(Griff?) will have recruited Dorn already, Danny will serve justice to all, then Danny will fly her Dragons to the wall and kill all the White Walkers and rule the Seven Kingdoms.

I am curious what role Bran will play in the next book since I feel it will heavily rely on him. IF Jon Snow is actually dead, we will need a new character to follow around on the wall and in the North, but that could easily be Bran

I'm curious about Bran, too. Whole lot of effort expended there and it opens up the mystery and magic of the Old Gods and First Men. There has to be a big pay-off.

Jon won't stay dead. He is Fire and Ice. I think he'll be in the thick of things and tackle the biggest problem(s). However, it would not surprise me if he winds up being the 1000th LC.

I really struggled with fAegon's introduction -- so late for a major plot. But, since reading the Princess and the Queen, I've felt the Targs and Blackfyres will again mount their flamethrowers and duke it out. That's where i think Dany's headed.

[Sirken]

You are over rating Jon's significance greatly.

The Dragon has 3 heads, so he may be one of them, but Danny is the GOAT of the books and will remain the main character and ultimate victor

and i feel you are over rating Dany's significance greatly. i firmly believe that Dany has a much higher probability of not surviving than jon. albeit, should dany die, it would be in a jesus like sacrifice herself to save all of westeros type of thing. the hard reality is that unless Dornish law becomes westeros law, she can not rule, and would have to marry aegon or jon. if Aegon is real (i dont believe he is) then he has the best claim to the throne. after Aegon, Jon would have the best claim to the throne. and after both Aegon, and Jon, then comes Dany's claim. she's third in line (4th if you still count stannis). i see her as the ultimate piece mover, as her actions will dictate so many other people's actions. but lil more than that. i simply do not see her as the Queen of westeros unless Stannis, Aegon, and Jon are dead (unless she marries Jon or Aegon, but then really they would be ruler and i dont think thats what she wants. Dany is crazy. people choose to ignore it because shes hot. but before the show came out, and she was just a dumb 16 year old girl, i think more people had jon pegged as the prince that was promised.

[Sirken]

I think you mean, he won't stay dead :) -- as your resurrection comment implies below. I think his death will have meaning. I concede Melisandre is in place to have a role in resurrection. It might be the only thing she could do to absolve herself given her errors in judgement/fire readings. I would prefer the Old Gods magic play at least some role. Maybe some Wall magic - it was built with blood and magic.

I worry about the completion of the series. But know what else? I'm addicted to the D&E stories right now. Lot of re-re-re-reading. I love Egg's humor and Dunk's honor and steadfastness. The future for more of these not looking so good, either.

yes correct. wont 'stay' dead. and i too love the D&E stories :)

honestly, can we say the fires were wrong? or did they show her exactly what she needed to see to find Azor Azai?

[Sirken]

I really struggled with fAegon's introduction -- so late for a major plot. But, since reading the Princess and the Queen, I've felt the Targs and Blackfyres will again mount their flamethrowers and duke it out. That's where i think Dany's headed.

youre thinking that this will end in another targaryen civil war? Dany vs Aegon? i must say, ill be pretty upset about that. introducing Aegon at this point is just poor writing at this point. either hes real, and you didnt give hints or clues and just forced him on us, or hes fake and will be out of the story soon, essentially being a giant waste of time. the only cool thing about the Aegon story is that im pretty convinced the the septa with them is Ashara Dayne

[holahouze]

yes correct. wont 'stay' dead. and i too love the D&E stories :)

honestly, can we say the fires were wrong? or did they show her exactly what she needed to see to find Azor Azai?

I would not say her fires were wrong, but I think we can confidently say she hasn't "read" them right. I like Stannis, and I don't know what he'd done about his claim without her, but she her reading of the flames mislead him.

[holahouze]

youre thinking that this will end in another targaryen civil war? Dany vs Aegon? i must say, ill be pretty upset about that. introducing Aegon at this point is just poor writing at this point. either hes real, and you didnt give hints or clues and just forced him on us, or hes fake and will be out of the story soon, essentially being a giant waste of time. the only cool thing about the Aegon story is that im pretty convinced the the septa with them is Ashara Dayne

I need to be careful here, as I'm sure you can dunk slam my logic. I highly doubt he is the real Aegon. While I am skeptical about the Illyrio - Blackfyre connection, if it were true, and fAegon is a Blackfyre, that will not stay hidden. I think he's going to gain some popular support, and he might produce a famous sword. By the time Dany gets to Westeros, it will bring them into conflict. Clearly there would be a lot of obstacles to overcome for there to be another literal dance with dragons. But i like the idea, because those two families bring out the crazy in each other!

[Sirken]

I would not say her fires were wrong, but I think we can confidently say she hasn't "read" them right. I like Stannis, and I don't know what he'd done about his claim without her, but she her reading of the flames mislead him.

100% agreed. and while it sucks for Stannis, Mel was indeed shown everything she needed to see to be guided up to north to find Azor Azai.

Stannis was dumb. he really should have found a way to unite with Renly and Rob. Renly maybe might could have been talked down from the ledge.. but maybe not. Baratheons really are stubborn fickle creatures. but yea, essentially 100% agreed :)

[derpcake]

GRRM better hurry the fuck up before he rolls over

guess HBO gonna finish the story regardless

to me it seems like a huge lack of passion to let some 3rd party spoil / finish the story because you can't keep up writing, despite being granted a very relaxed pace

fuck that, i bet we have people working on an FBSS harder then he is on the books

[Sirken]

I need to be careful here, as I'm sure you can dunk slam my logic. I highly doubt he is the real Aegon. While I am skeptical about the Illyrio - Blackfyre connection, if it were true, and fAegon is a Blackfyre, that will not stay hidden. I think he's going to gain some popular support, and he might produce a famous sword. By the time Dany gets to Westeros, it will bring them into conflict. Clearly there would be a lot of obstacles to overcome for there to be another literal dance with dragons. But i like the idea, because those two families bring out the crazy in each other!

so i'll just start at the top. popular belief is that Aegon is a fake, i subscribe to this as well. but i will admit, its a tough pill to swallow. Jon Connington was Rhaegar's best friend and some folks believe Connington had romantic thoughts about Rhaegar as well. Now we have to remember that Connington was exiled before Aegon would have been killed (Connington was exiled during Roberts Rebellion after the incident at the Stoney Sept). we are never sure when Connington could have discovered that Aegon would have survived, although i wouldnt be shocked if Varys played a role there. but then that all begs the question, 'why?'. why would Illyrio and Varys go to such great lengths to help Aegon? it is implied and assumed that the clothes given to Tyrion by Illyrio in season 5 are the former clothes of Aegon from his time with Illyrio. He definitely could produce a missing valyrian steel sword (maybe Blackfyre or Dark Sister (altho its possible the 3 eyed raven has dark sister), or possible the missing Lannister blade of Brightroar). as much as GRRM loves history, and as cyclical as history is, another "dance of the dragons" isnt really possible when only one side has dragons. that said, i really do think its possible for Aegon to be a blackfyre, and i think its possible Aegon and Dany hookup to reunite the greens and the blacks and end the feud once and for all.

[holahouze]

100% agreed. and while it sucks for Stannis, Mel was indeed shown everything she needed to see to be guided up to north to find Azor Azai.

Stannis was dumb. he really should have found a way to unite with Renly and Rob. Renly maybe might could have been talked down from the ledge.. but maybe not. Baratheons really are stubborn fickle creatures. but yea, essentially 100% agreed :)

Rob + Stannis would have been the match. Had they joined forces and made some headway, there's a chance Renly would have come to his senses. Surely, the timing was off for such a match. Rob's dad was dead, lost track of his sisters, and was vexed by the Lannisters. He also had the Northmen in his ear. Stannis had lost one brother, was betrayed by the other, and was vexed by the Lannister B.S. Plus, he had Melisandre in his ear. And so the story grew.

I was thinking about ASOIAF last night, and the exchanges here, and it is astonishing how many storylines are in play. No damn wonder Martin is so slow. He's probably paralyzed.

[holahouze]

so i'll just start at the top. popular belief is that Aegon is a fake, i subscribe to this as well. but i will admit, its a tough pill to swallow. Jon Connington was Rhaegar's best friend and some folks believe Connington had romantic thoughts about Rhaegar as well. Now we have to remember that Connington was exiled before Aegon would have been killed (Connington was exiled during Roberts Rebellion after the incident at the Stoney Sept). we are never sure when Connington could have discovered that Aegon would have survived, although i wouldnt be shocked if Varys played a role there. but then that all begs the question, 'why?'. why would Illyrio and Varys go to such great lengths to help Aegon? it is implied and assumed that the clothes given to Tyrion by Illyrio in season 5 are the former clothes of Aegon from his time with Illyrio. He definitely could produce a missing valyrian steel sword (maybe Blackfyre or Dark Sister (altho its possible the 3 eyed raven has dark sister), or possible the missing Lannister blade of Brightroar). as much as GRRM loves history, and as cyclical as history is, another "dance of the dragons" isnt really possible when only one side has dragons. that said, i really do think its possible for Aegon to be a blackfyre, and i think its possible Aegon and Dany hookup to reunite the greens and the blacks and end the feud once and for all.

Yeah, I jumped to the bottom. Partly because there is so much unknown and uncertain about Varys's and Illaryio's plans. I'm just not comfortable guessing. So, while its likely they have a card or three up their sleeves, i do think there's conflict ahead between Dany and fAegon. They are both strapped up to go for the throne and rule. I don't see either taking a step back. Both will lose their minds if and when they figure out they've been manipulated, especially Dany (i think). Perhaps its not on the back of dragons (although I like that idea + Dany would have a decided advantage, no?), but I think a Green/Black showdown is in the offing.

[holahouze]

Anybody think Bran still looks 9? He's aging in dog years.

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/12/29/isaac-hempstead-wright-teases-brans-newfound-powers-in-game-of-thrones-season-6/

[barrettdc1]

I'm at least glad he cut his hair, that long hair with bangs thing he had for the entire show was terribad.

[Spyder73]

and i feel you are over rating Dany's significance greatly. i firmly believe that Dany has a much higher probability of not surviving than jon. albeit, should dany die, it would be in a jesus like sacrifice herself to save all of westeros type of thing. the hard reality is that unless Dornish law becomes westeros law, she can not rule, and would have to marry aegon or jon. if Aegon is real (i dont believe he is) then he has the best claim to the throne. after Aegon, Jon would have the best claim to the throne. and after both Aegon, and Jon, then comes Dany's claim. she's third in line (4th if you still count stannis). i see her as the ultimate piece mover, as her actions will dictate so many other people's actions. but lil more than that. i simply do not see her as the Queen of westeros unless Stannis, Aegon, and Jon are dead (unless she marries Jon or Aegon, but then really they would be ruler and i dont think thats what she wants. Dany is crazy. people choose to ignore it because shes hot. but before the show came out, and she was just a dumb 16 year old girl, i think more people had jon pegged as the prince that was promised.

DISCLAIMER: This got very wall of text very quickly, apologies

Lets examine the facts then. Does Jon Snow fit the prophecy more? or does Danny?

Lets us remember that Maester Agon confirms that high Valeryn has neither masculine or feminine undertones - so while the prophecy is translated as prince, it could be princess as easily as prince. This seems an odd fact to shoe-horn into the book unless there was a POINT to it, does it not?

From the stand point of things making sense, could Danny qualify has hers being "a song of fire and ice"? Well what is a song of fire and ice. From GRRM Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books

So from this definition lets examine Danny. Has she loved? Yes, several people in fact. It is a common theme in the book. Sex? Well documented in the books her getting plowed regularly. Passion? Both positive and negative - She was so depressed when her baby and Drogo died that after she was done torturing the witch who killed them she went and jumped into the pyre with them. AHA! She can not be harmed by fire! She fits Fire PERFECTLY.

Ice? Betrayal? First her brother basically sells her as a sex slave to a barbarian horde, then her unborn son was killed to "save" Khal Drogo by a vengeful witch after she finally falls in love with him, She is exiled from the horde with NOTHING but like 5 people, Her captain of the guards then was reporting her activities to the Iron Throne, assassination attempts a plenty, everyone plotting against her constantly...she gets betrayed pretty much at every point where a betrayal is possible, far to many to recant. Revenge? She freed an entire people from slavery, shut down the slave fighting pits, took over half the world already, and killed the woman who essentially murdered her baby and husband.

Oh, SHE HAS 3 MOTHER F#CKING DRAGONS BRO

If Dannys story is not a song of fire and ice then what is? Jon is certainly important and will be revealed as being even more important in the upcoming events of ASOIAF,

But what would be more perfect, more fitting, than Danny taking over the Iron Throne, Jon uniting the North and becoming Lord of Winterfell, and then Danny coming to visit her half brother to make him Hand of the King (or whatever he would be, cousin?). Guess where it would leave us? EXACTLY WHERE WE STARTED WITH ROBERT AND NED, and the cycle continues.

I leave you with GRRM thoughts on people figuring out his plot.

“I want to surprise and delight my reader and take them in directions they didn’t see coming. But I can’t change the plans… So many readers were reading the books with so much attention that they were throwing up some theories and while some of those theories were amusing bulls**t and creative, some of the theories are right. At least one or two readers had put together the extremely subtle and obscure clues that I’d planted in the books and came to the right solution… So what do I do then? Do I change it?! I wrestled with that issue and I came to the conclusion that changing it would be a disaster, because the clues were there. You can’t do that, so I’m just going to go ahead. Some of my readers who don’t read the [online fan] boards, which thankfully there are hundreds of thousands of them, will still be surprised and other readers will say: ‘See, I said that four years ago, I’m smarter than you guys’.”

he is pot committed on Danny - she has come from nothing and is about to ascend to the top of the top - this has been the point of the entire series and people are realizing it now

[Spyder73]

Maybe we can at least to agree that either Jon or Danny with end up being the series hero. Seems pretty clear cut at this point. And honestly they will probably have to work together or even get married, the Targeryans were incestial.

[holahouze]

I'm at least glad he cut his hair, that long hair with bangs thing he had for the entire show was terribad.

Who do you think his barber is in that cave? Bloodraven? Meera? Hodor?

I like terribad. I'm going to use it, if you don't mind.

[Sirken]

DISCLAIMER: This got very wall of text very quickly, apologies

words
ok lets go one at a time

Lets us remember that Maester Agon confirms that high Valeryn has neither masculine or feminine undertones - so while the prophecy is translated as prince, it could be princess as easily as prince. This seems an odd fact to shoe-horn into the book unless there was a POINT to it, does it not?
i took this as a red herring and nothing more. i believe GRRM has flipflopped quite a few times on how things play out.

From the stand point of things making sense, could Danny qualify has hers being "a song of fire and ice"? Well what is a song of fire and ice. From GRRM Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books
does the relationship between R&L not fit this description perfectly? not to mention the extra added flavor of Stark and Targ, Winter & Summer, Snow & Fire. ice is... cold humanity? trying growing up as Neds bastard in Winterfell around Cat.

Ice? Betrayal? First her brother basically sells her as a sex slave to a barbarian horde, then her unborn son was killed to "save" Khal Drogo by a vengeful witch after she finally falls in love with him, She is exiled from the horde with NOTHING but like 5 people, Her captain of the guards then was reporting her activities to the Iron Throne, assassination attempts a plenty, everyone plotting against her constantly...she gets betrayed pretty much at every point where a betrayal is possible, far to many to recant. Revenge? She freed an entire people from slavery, shut down the slave fighting pits, took over half the world already, and killed the woman who essentially murdered her baby and husband.
So from this definition lets examine Danny. Has she loved? Yes, several people in fact. It is a common theme in the book. Sex? Well documented in the books her getting plowed regularly. Passion? Both positive and negative - She was so depressed when her baby and Drogo died that after she was done torturing the witch who killed them she went and jumped into the pyre with them. AHA! She can not be harmed by fire! She fits Fire PERFECTLY.
actually, Dany can be hurt by fire. sure she has a higher tolerance, but im pretty sure Mirri's blood magic is the only reason Dany walked out of that pyre in season1/book1. also, Targs arent fire proof. every single thing you say dany has, i can argue for jon via Ygritte or Arya.

Dany physically owns dragons, but she has no control of them. dragon riders bond with their dragon, no rider can bond with more than 1. which means in all probability Jon will also have a dragon.

again, by westeros law, Dany can not rule legally. GRRM (as you say in your quote) LOVES to surprise and shock readers, and i think that it being so obvious about Dany makes her a red herring. i think shes one of the 3 dragon heads, and possible our sacrificial lamb, and maybe the wife to the king of westeros. but nothing more than that. i dont see Dany sitting the iron throne.

Jon is literally the only character in the story with plot armor.

[Sirken]

Who do you think his barber is in that cave? Bloodraven? Meera? Hodor?

I like terribad. I'm going to use it, if you don't mind.

not Jojen :(

[holahouze]

not Jojen :(

Jojen's not available right now..:eek:

[holahouze]

@Sirken, @Spyder73, hang on, I'm going to make some popcorn.

Dany's obiviously important to the story. Jon's uber important. They're both dragons. But, Jon's ice + fire.

I think the biggest tactical mistake Dany has made to this point is ignoring her dragons. For that matter, same is true for Varys and Illyrio. I can not understand those guys. Somebody is going to ride Rhaegal and Viserion, and they better step on training/wrangling those things or someone else will.

[Sirken]

Jojen's not available right now..:eek:

fucking years ago when i finished book 5, i remember thinking, "will somebody PLEASE get Jojen a fucking blanket?"

and then after season 4 it was just like... :mad::confused::(:mad:

[holahouze]

fucking years ago when i finished book 5, i remember thinking, "will somebody PLEASE get Jojen a fucking blanket?"

and then after season 4 it was just like... :mad::confused::(:mad:

Ha! Showrunners took a giant dump on Jojen. But, i blame Howland. What kind of parent sends their kids off on a 1000 mile walkabout? Bran was the only one of the bunch that didn't have sore feet.

[Spyder73]

I can see how the story for Jon is going to develop already.

Jon is resurrected - thus releasing him from his Night's Watch vow - he discovers he has King's blood from the Red Lady (because there is power in kings blood) and maybe she tells him he is the Chosen One and not Stanis, after further investigation he figures out he is part Stark part Targaryen and has a claim to the throne....But honestly it makes more sense for him to die defending the realm from the white walkers. Maybe one of Dannys Dragons seeks him out and they bond and reign terror North of the Wall, but if anyone is going to sacrifice themselves, its going to be Jon Snow, not Danny. It would be very Ned Stark of him to do the noble thing.

And there is pretty much nothing that could piss me off more than Jon taking up the Targaryen surname and pretending to be a king. He is the very embodiment of the Starks and he would become Jon Stark, not Jon Targaryen regardless of who his father really is.

Danny on the other hand, is going to be the ruler of the world, not just Westeros. The entire series has been building to her taking back over the Iron Throne, like literally the entire series. Her story is almost entirely independent of all other stories. I don't even know what the point of including her in the series would be if not for the culmination of her uniting ALL lands under her banner (Westeros and across the ocean)

I would agree that Jon and Dannys stories share A LOT of similarities, He is Ice and she is Fire. But in the nature of Ice and Fire, Danny will rule and Jon will suffer

[Spyder73]

All this anticipation for the new season has got me reading sh!t on the internet. What about this little nugget?

Tyrion is a Targaryen
According to this theory, Tyrion, the character played by Peter Dinklage, is not the son of Tywin Lannister. All this time, he was actually the child of the Mad King Aerys II Targaryen – who supposedly slept with Tywin's wife, Joanna Lannister. "In George RR Martin's books, the physical attributes of Tyrion (eye colour, hair, etc.) are described as being different than his relatives," explains Tim Falkenberg for New Media RockStars.

"Tyrion has a 'black' eye (the Mad King's are described as purple) and pale blonde hair similar to the Mad King." Fans of the television show have also trawled through previous episodes to find evidence to back up the claim.

They note that, after the Battle of the Blackwater, Tywin told Tyrion: "Mens' laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colours since I cannot prove that you are not mine." And of course, when Tyrion killed Tywin, the dying man's last words were: "You are no son of mine."

Jon, Danny, Tyrion as the 3 Dragon Riders?

[Sidelle]

I really think some people here are underestimating Dany. She'll never be "just some king's wife".

She hasn't done too badly for a young exiled child queen that has had almost no real guidance or experience. Granted, she's done some shit that frustrated me while reading the books, but all in all, I think she was just learning how to rule. She actually cares about the common people. That's a good place to start from.

Imagine how different things might be at this point in the books if she had Dragonbinder in her possession, along with a proper sorcerer to bind those unruly teenage dragons of hers. (I wonder if the new red priestess she will evidently meet on the show in season six can help her out or if a situation like that will come up in Winds of Winter).

Nope, I still say Dany is fierce. She could be a great queen, and even when she makes her mistakes she's a hell of a lot better at ruling than Robert, the mad king, Cercei, etc, combined. I guess I sorta of think of her like a female version of Rhaegar. He would have been a good king, by most accounts if I remember correctly.

Now to address the issue of Westeros never having a sole female ruling in her own right. Putting aside any issues about future Dornish involvement and possible alliances, etc, let me just put this out there:

There is a first time for everything. That's why it's called "setting a precedent". Providing she can get those dragons in line (with Dragonbinder, sorcery, whatever) she has a real chance of taking Westeros in her own name. Why the fuck would she have to marry her nephew (fAegon) or anyone else, for that matter? That idea is for Strong Belwas to poop on.

[holahouze]

I really think some people here are underestimating Dany. She'll never be "just some king's wife".

She hasn't done too badly for a young exiled child queen that has had almost no real guidance or experience. Granted, she's done some shit that frustrated me while reading the books, but all in all, I think she was just learning how to rule. She actually cares about the common people. That's a good place to start from.

Imagine how different things might be at this point in the books if she had Dragonbinder in her possession, along with a proper sorcerer to bind those unruly teenage dragons of hers. (I wonder if the new red priestess she will evidently meet on the show in season six can help her out or if a situation like that will come up in Winds of Winter).

Nope, I still say Dany is fierce. She could be a great queen, and even when she makes her mistakes she's a hell of a lot better at ruling than Robert, the mad king, Cercei, etc, combined. I guess I sorta of think of her like a female version of Rhaegar. He would have been a good king, by most accounts if I remember correctly.

Now to address the issue of Westeros never having a sole female ruling in her own right. Putting aside any issues about future Dornish involvement and possible alliances, etc, let me just put this out there:

There is a first time for everything. That's why it's called "setting a precedent". Providing she can get those dragons in line (with Dragonbinder, sorcery, whatever) she has a real chance of taking Westeros in her own name. Why the fuck would she have to marry her nephew (fAegon) or anyone else, for that matter? That idea is for Strong Belwas to poop on.

Sidelle, this is for you and Spyder. The thing about where Martin has left us with 5th book is, its plausible every major character can go multiple and nearly opposite directions. We don't know who'll make it to the finish line, but some won't.

Here is an example. I think Jon is most special. Ice+Fire (especially Ice because I don't think we've seen what the Old Gods can do yet). I think he is positioned to save the world (or lead that effort), unlike others angling for a throne. I much dislike the idea of Melisandre resurrecting Jon. Absolutely hated her conditions for Jon taking Winterfell - renounce Old Gods and burn the Weirwoods. That was one of the biggest "Fuck that" moments for me as reader. But, maybe she does resurrect Jon via red/fire magic, and maybe Jon wakes up thinking "that" is what his life as been missing. Then, we got a whole other ballgame.

I totally agree Dany is major character. I'm not overly fond of her because of some of her decisions. Some of those are borderline poor storytelling to me. But, she could make it to the finish line - if we define the finish line as ruling. There are several things in the background that I think will slow or stop her. Of the top of my head -- she's not handled her towering strength, her dragons, properly. I think she will lose at least one. It could be Victorian, for e.g., and its hard to see being her "Prince Phillip". Euron, less so. fAegon has a better claim, is on the right side of water, and i reckon he'll align with Dorne. Then what? Hard to see Dany accept being his Queen. And, I think we might see Dany's crazy gene fully activate. Maybe Tyrion will get through to her and keep her on track. Then again, maybe Dany will ask for the heads all other Lannisters once she has power, and Tyrion will end up pulling a Jamie.

All of this isn't meant to settle differences of opinion obviously. We need Martin to get on the stick and sell us what we desire so badly. He could break records with the price of the next book.

[Patriam1066]

Jon is the hero. Dany is the martyr who will remember the things she lacked in life (love, family, and a place to call home) and as a result, will nobly sacrifice herself to save the people of Westeros. Sansa will be queen, and fAegon, the blackfyre descended son of a rich, ambitious merchant, will die the death of a pawn, because ultimately, GRRM is a postmodern liberal with that type of sensibility. Regardless, I love the books and even some of the social commentary made within them.

I wish Aegon could marry Sansa and that they could take the Kingdom with the backing of Jon (ruling as a stark in winterfell after defeating the Others with Dany's help). In this alternative future, Rickon would be given the Dreadfort, henceforth known as Shaggyfort. Alas, Aegon is fucked because the only reason GRRM would introduce such an ambiguous character at this point is to demonstrate how life turns out for those who legitimately deserve better when they are manipulated by those who suck. I'm probably wrong about this, but I just can't see a reason to add Aegon other than to make a commentary about people like Illyrio, Varys, Aegon himself.

[Daywolf]

http://i.imgur.com/9VFcyZh.jpg

[holahouze]

I saw this movie at Studio 35 while i was in college!! It was during the killer blizzard of '77, and we went there to warm up because it was sub 50 degrees in our slum half double. Returned to find a raccoon had set up shop in my bedroom. That's when the fun started...

[holahouze]

Stumbled across this survey this morning. Worse ways to spend a couple minutes. Survey is reported in two chunks, look for 2nd.

http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2016/01/07-2015-asoiaf-theory-results-1/index.html

[Sirken]

new teaser - https://youtu.be/H68jBjb5XbQ

that first part reminded me of the pink letter :P

[holahouze]

new teaser - https://youtu.be/H68jBjb5XbQ

that first part reminded me of the pink letter :P

TOTH survey says you're on to something re pink letter:

2. Who wrote the Pink Letter?

The author of the Pink Letter remains hotly contested both internally and across the spectrum. Replies tended to divide between Mance Rayder and Ramsay Bolton.

/r/asoiaf
Mance Rayder: 940 (39.9%)
Ramsay Bolton: 586 (24.9%)
Stannis Baratheon: 228 (9.7%)
Don't Know/No Opinion: 256 (10.9%)
Lady Barbrey Dustin: 118 (5%)
Melisandre of Asshai: 54 (2.3%)
Theon Greyjoy: 52 (2.2%)
Roose Bolton: 44 (1.9%)
Alliser Thorne: 17 (0.7%)
Asha Greyjoy: 16 (0.7%)
Bowen Marsh: 9 (0.4%)
Mors or Hother Umber: 8 (0.3%)
Harrion Karstark 3 (0.1%)
Other: 22 (0.9%)
Westeros.org
Ramsay Bolton: 37 (37.4%)
Mance Rayder: 23 (23.2%)
Don't Know/No Opinion: 14 (14.1%)
Stannis Baratheon: 7 (7.1%)
Theon Greyjoy: 7 (7.1%)
Lady Barbrey Dustin: 3 (3%)
Melisandre of Asshai: 2 (2%)
Asha Greyjoy: 2 (2%)
Roose Bolton: 1 (1%)
Alliser Thorne : 1 (1%)
Harrion Karstark: 1 (1%)
Bowen Marsh: 0 (0%)
Mors or Hother Umber: 0 (0%)
Other: 1 (1%)
Tower of the Hand
Ramsay Bolton: 149 (47.9%)
Mance Rayder : 58 (18.6%)
Stannis Baratheon: 38 (12.2%)
Don't Know/No Opinion: 30 (9.6%)
Roose Bolton 10 (3.2%)
Melisandre of Asshai: 9 (2.9%)
Lady Barbrey Dustin: 4 (1.3%)
Theon Greyjoy: 4 (1.3%)
Mors or Hother Umber: 3 (1%)
Asha Greyjoy: 2 (0.6%)
Alliser Thorne: 2 (0.6%)
Bowen Marsh: 1 (0.3%)
Harrion Karstark: 1 (0.3%)
Other 0 (0%)
Watchers on the Wall
Ramsay Bolton: 910 (52.4%)
Mance Rayder: 366 (21.1%)
Don't Know/No Opinion: 144 (8.3%)
Stannis Baratheon: 129 (7.4%)
Melisandre of Asshai: 45 (2.6%)
Alliser Thorne: 34 (2%)
Theon Greyjoy: 32 (1.8%)
Roose Bolton: 25 (1.4%)
Lady Barbrey Dustin: 16 (0.9%)
Bowen Marsh: 9 (0.5%)
Mors or Hother Umber: 4 (0.2%)
Asha Greyjoy: 4 (0.2%)
Harrion Karstark: 4 (0.2%)
Other: 13 (0.7%)
ASOIAF Facebook
Ramsay Bolton: 81 (39.5%)
Mance Rayder: 61 (29.8%)
Don't Know/No Opinion 16 (7.8%)
Melisandre of Asshai: 10 (4.9%)
Stannis Baratheon: 9 (4.4%)
Roose Bolton: 6 (2.9%)
Theon Greyjoy: 4 (2%)
Lady Barbrey Dustin: 4 (2%)
Alliser Thorne: 3 (1.5%)
Bowen Marsh: 3 (1.5%)
Mors or Hother Umber: 2 (1%)
Asha Greyjoy: 1 (0.5%)
Harrion Karstark: 1 (0.5%)
Other 4 2%

[Big_Japan]

/r/asoiaf

:o

[AenorVZ]

Before the show came out, and she was just a dumb 16 year old girl, i think more people had jon pegged as the prince that was promised.

I can't believe we just got accused of rethinking ice with our dicks.

[AenorVZ]

I blame Howland.

Yep he's right up there with Stannis for Dad of the Year honors.

Also, Coldhands is not Benjen.

http://i.imgur.com/FfI1goA.jpg

[Sirken]

TOTH survey says you're on to something re pink letter:

2. Who wrote the Pink Letter?

The author of the Pink Letter remains hotly contested both internally and across the spectrum. Replies tended to divide between Mance Rayder and Ramsay Bolton.

based on the wording used, im pretty convinced it was Mance. check out Preston Jacobs video on the Pink Letter, im pretty much 100% subscribed to that theory ;)

[holahouze]

based on the wording used, im pretty convinced it was Mance. check out Preston Jacobs video on the Pink Letter, im pretty much 100% subscribed to that theory ;)

Yes. Mance is the only one who would be familiar with all the references - without a fair amount of flaying or torture involved. I'm unsure about PJ's theories of motivation - just not familiar with some of that stuff. But, it fits Mance's wily nature - double-cross and such. And, of course, it only works if Mance has found the horn. Too bad the show skipped over all this.

The horn in the crypts also fits into a thought i have that the Starks have forgotten more of their history than they remember.

[Sirken]

I can't believe we just got accused of rethinking ice with our dicks.
lol, i didnt mean to sound like that at all. i just think that the show has built dany up to seem way more important than i felt the book made her seem. part of me has always felt dany was the ultimate red herring. other parts think she'll give up her own life in a fashion that saves everyone else. i just dont ever see her sitting the iron throne.

one thing the show has done that i dont think was in the book, was showing the throne room of Kings Landing, essentially destroyed by 'winter'. im not saying KL will be ultimately destroyed, but i am saying i could see it. since the dragon has 3 heads, why can't westeros? give dorne, the reach, dragonstone, and the area around KL to Aegon or Dany. north of KL up to the twins (including the eerie, harrenhall, riverlands, westerlands, etc), and every thing north of that to Jon :)

[Sirken]

Also, Coldhands is not Benjen.
http://i.imgur.com/FfI1goA.jpg

also because of what Leaf says to Bran in book 5, "They killed him long ago." implying Coldhands has been around a long time, since the CotF live much much longer than human beings.

[Villide]

TOTH survey says you're on to something re pink letter:

2. Who wrote the Pink Letter?

The author of the Pink Letter remains hotly contested both internally and across the spectrum. Replies tended to divide between Mance Rayder and Ramsay Bolton.


Surprised so many voted for Stannis Baratheon. Seems that's something that would violate his moral code to a high degree. Would Ned Stark have written something like that?

[Sirken]

Surprised so many voted for Stannis Baratheon. Seems that's something that would violate his moral code to a high degree. Would Ned Stark have written something like that?

Ned is super dead. head chopped off, skin removed, bones in a box, dead.

https://youtu.be/jwcuRwod0Xg?list=PLCsx_OFEYH6v1vu8roFM3MzuU6TT84Sp I

watch those. thats why im convinced mance wrote it

[Villide]

Ned is super dead. head chopped off, skin removed, bones in a box, dead.

https://youtu.be/jwcuRwod0Xg?list=PLCsx_OFEYH6v1vu8roFM3MzuU6TT84Sp I

watch those. thats why im convinced mance wrote it
What??? Ned is dead?

LOL, just comparing the honor of both men. I could no more see Stannis writing (or approving the writing of) something like that as Ned Stark doing it.

And I'm in agreement with you on Mance.

[holahouze]

Surprised so many voted for Stannis Baratheon. Seems that's something that would violate his moral code to a high degree. Would Ned Stark have written something like that?

There are a few hard hitting nerd threads out there that debate the pink letter. Stannis fans tend to rely on squeezing winterfell & Ramsay knowledge out of Theon + his knowledge of goings on at the Wall. Motivations swing between gaining support from Ned's son, uniting north, a fair warning, etc.

And, Stannis moral code is often brought up as a reason against him being the writer. Can't see how he could stoop to a Pink Letter trickeration. I don't know. I think his moral compass is pretty hosed up.

[Sirken]

What??? Ned is dead?

LOL, just comparing the honor of both men. I could no more see Stannis writing (or approving the writing of) something like that as Ned Stark doing it.

And I'm in agreement with you on Mance.

i could maybe see Stannis writing it, but the problems are Stannis wouldnt talk to Jon that way (ie: like a piece of shit), and Stannis wouldnt demand "Arya" back.

its either Ramsay telling the truth, or, it's Mance ;)


ps- also, Stannis isnt on Ned's level of honor. Stannis used blood magic to murder his little brother, Stannis turned his back on his Gods, Stannis was literally willing to do anything for the throne.
Whereas Eddard Stark would never give up his honor in exchange to sit on an uncomfy iron chair.

[Sirken]

There are a few hard hitting nerd threads out there that debate the pink letter. Stannis fans tend to rely on squeezing winterfell & Ramsay knowledge out of Theon + his knowledge of goings on at the Wall. Motivations swing between gaining support from Ned's son, uniting north, a fair warning, etc.

And, Stannis moral code is often brought up as a reason against him being the writer. Can't see how he could stoop to a Pink Letter trickeration. I don't know. I think his moral compass is pretty hosed up.

again, stannis wouldnt have ever demanded arya away from jon. if anything stannis would try to recruit the wildings and try to use Jon to rally the worth. Stannis doesnt need king's blood because he doesnt have Mel with him anyway (as she was left at the wall).

[holahouze]

again, stannis wouldnt have ever demanded arya away from jon. if anything stannis would try to recruit the wildings and try to use Jon to rally the worth. Stannis doesnt need king's blood because he doesnt have Mel with him anyway (as she was left at the wall).

I struggle understanding the motivations for the Pink Letter from all 3 of the primary suspects. So, I'm certainly not defending the Stannis theories. I'll just say, you have to accept that Stannis was capable of a level of creative deception to ape or mimic Ramsay. A ruse he uses to get what he wants. Not my favorite theory.

And somehow, I don't think Ramsay would resort to a snarky letter of insult to get fArya and Reek back. Much less send the letter without some spearwife skin.

That's leaves Mance. Not sure what his endgame is, but all he needs is ink, quill, paper, and a raven that knows its way to CB.

And i totally agree with you, Stannis is not in Ned's league in terms of honor. He scoffs at Ned's honor code. Stannis is something else. A justice fanatic or something of the sort, who would abandon honor and principles to achieve what he believes is just.

[wts]

since the dragon has 3 heads, why can't westeros? give dorne, the reach, dragonstone, and the area around KL to Aegon or Dany. north of KL up to the twins (including the eerie, harrenhall, riverlands, westerlands, etc), and every thing north of that to Jon :)

You just wrapped that up and put a bow on it. George needs to hire you.

[Sirken]

You just wrapped that up and put a bow on it. George needs to hire you.

lol. GRRM knows how his story ends. but thats part of the problem i think. its much more exciting to write when the writer is also on the adventure, learning things about the characters, world crafting, and seeing where the story goes.

but after you know the end for the story and the characters, it becomes less fun. because you are no longer creating things, world crafting, or playing god. you are just filling in blanks and planting your ass in a chair and putting words to paper. its no longer an adventure for GRRM to write this story, it has become work. and he doesn't like it.

[Sirken]

pretty cool video about "The Mad Queen" theory, with bits supporting a theory i kinda like about kings landing being destroyed at the end of everything

https://youtu.be/2aPiAeYBNyI

enjoy ;)

[AenorVZ]

it has become work. and he doesn't like it.

Me either.

[iruinedyourday]

Is this show going to ever comeback on or what's the deal?

[AenorVZ]

Video was p good.

[Sirken]

Is this show going to ever comeback on or what's the deal?

end of April :)

[Sirken]

Video was p good.

agreed, but i just dont know if its some metaphor that Jon will end up KL (which i'm strongly against), or it could mean that KL is not what Dany should be fighting for (nor should it be her top priority).

as far as Dany going mad, i mean, some of the signs are already there imo. that girl certainly has her daddy's temper ;)

[maerilith]

I thought GoT final season was like a yr ago? now?

[Daywolf]

Go White Walkers! And their new leader, Jon Snow! Soon to be addressed as Snow White :D
That's been my position since the season finale.
The story of the wall pretty much carried the show imo.
I'd be looking forward to Vikings season premier alone, but I suppose some good wholesale slaughter by Snow's White Walker Army can be entertaining too :)
Show needs more dwarfs now

[holahouze]

Collection of season 6 stills. My God as Bran aged!

http://winteriscoming.net/2016/02/11/game-of-thrones-20-crisp-new-photos-from-season-6/