ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[India]

I thought Melisandre was referencing Arya becoming one of the faceless men of Braavos

[Sidelle]

The thing about the valonqar being Tyrion is it's too obvious. When even Cersei suspects it'll be him, it just makes sense that it'll be someone else.

Also this is a fun blog about the goings on in Meereen in ADWD
http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/
Yeah yeah, I know. Tyrion would be obvious but a part of me still hopes it's him that does it.

[Tenlaar]

I agree that Tyrion is just too obvious. It's certainly possible that Cersei is going to go bat shit crazy and try to do something so bad that Jaime will kill her as the final act of his becoming "good", but having the prophecy say the "little brother" will kill her and then having one of her little brothers kill her also strikes me as a bit too obvious.

That's the thinking that got me pondering others we know of who could logically be called little brother in High Valyrian - those with siblings and Valyrian blood in them.

[Sirken]

also, i read a great point on another forum:
Jaime cannot be the valonqar because he only has one hand. The golden hand cannot choke anyone because 1. its shaped half-closed for holding wine goblets, and 2. it can't produce pressure.

The prophecy clearly states that the valonqar will wraps his hands (plural) around her pale throat. Unless Jaime is regrowing a hand anytime soon, it's not going to happen. unless the prophecy isn't referring to literal hands, in which case if Jaime becomes hand of the king (yes yes i know Jaime has said no to that post multiple times by this point), remember in the book its a chain (not a pin) and chains can be used for dat good choking. Cersei has already burned down the tower of the hand, and loves that fire (ie: she had the pyromancers stockpiling that shit in book 2 (and we assume after roberts death in book 1).

[Tenlaar]

also, i read a great point on another forum:

But the thing I noticed is "shall wrap his handS." We know valonqar is high Valyrian for little brother, but...only one of her little brothers still has multiple hands capable of wrapping and I find it hard to believe that Tyrion is going to strangle Shae, kill his father, AND choke his sister to death with his bare hands.

Keep up Sirken, GEEZ!

[Sirken]

failed

[Sidelle]

Gonna read the books again. Shit's a little foggy because my memory sucks. Maybe I'll pick up some more clues. I love these books, so many details that the smallest thing could be important later.

Lotsa good points in this thread, keep it going. Maybe I'll be back with something better to contribute. =)

[Mandalore93]

Ok, so is it me or does the TV series slant certain things to make them look more favorable? Originally I at the least viewed them neutrally but after reading through most of two books I've concluded that their family deserves death due to their own stupidity. Thank goodness for the Red Wedding next book. The series just seems to cut out a lot of the Start stupidity out from the books, such as Sansa running and telling the queen of Ned's plans. Then again, I might just be forgetting that from the series, but I don't think I am.

[Sirken]

The starks definitely do the absolute dumbest shit imaginable, and they happen to live in a world where being dumb wont keep u around too long. But ur right about them being worse in the books. Cat, Sansa, Robb, Rickon, all as dumb as a bag of rocks. Bran and Jon are the only hopes for that fam

[Dalven]

I love it when this thread resurfaces.

I honestly don't think they would be able to do the series justice in seven seasons. They would pass the books in timeline for sure, and as far as I'm aware the show runners know the end of the series in some fashion, which for me would mean I would have to stop watching and cut myself off from society to avoid spoilers.

My money is also on Jaime being the Valonqar - hands of flesh and gold would satisfy me and Sirken makes a great point about him being willing to do what is necessary. It will be interesting to see what new developments in his character come about after his meeting with Stoneheart.

The thing about the valonqar being Tyrion is it's too obvious. When even Cersei suspects it'll be him, it just makes sense that it'll be someone else.

Also this is a fun blog about the goings on in Meereen in ADWD
http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/

Cheers for the link, thoroughly enjoyed this blog, guy makes a lot of interesting points on Dany's time in Meereen. Also goes through a lot of Jon's decisions and makes a good case for him being another bad Stark decision maker.

[Sirken]

fawk.

i wasnt thinking about where we last see Jaime in the books. if he doesnt play his cards right, he wont have a chance to be the one that offs Cersei. Stoneheart doesnt fawk around.

[Mandalore93]

Alright guys, I'm changing my tune on the blond bitch with the lizard fetish, she's cool as fuck in Season 3.

[Sirken]

it took me way to long to figure out u meant Dany ^^

[Sidelle]

fawk.

i wasnt thinking about where we last see Jaime in the books. if he doesnt play his cards right, he wont have a chance to be the one that offs Cersei. Stoneheart doesnt fawk around.
What if he never even sees Stoneheart because Brienne finds him first. I'm really looking forward to that meeting.

[Sirken]

What if he never even sees Stoneheart because Brienne finds him first. I'm really looking forward to that meeting.

Well Brienne found him! but we need to see where she brings him!

[Sidelle]

Well Brienne found him! but we need to see where she brings him!
And this is why I am reading the books again. I'm too forgetful.

[Dalven]

The books are well worth reading several times - foreknowledge does a lot for what you can pick up on another read through.

If you're feeling particularly keen check out some of the re-read threads at asoiaf.westeros.org for discussion on various chapters. Some serious ASOIAF enthusiasts on there.

[Sidelle]

Awesome. Thank you. Will definitely check it out. =)

[Retti_]

Everquest

Hi sirken

[Mandalore93]

Finally these dumb shit redheads are dying. Useless pieces of Northern shit. Thank goodness their scourge is almost ended. Boltons well played, well played indeed.

[Sirken]

And this is why I am reading the books again. I'm too forgetful.
happens to the best of us! thats one of the cliff hangers that really pissed me off

Hi sirken
HAIL!

Finally these dumb shit redheads are dying. Useless pieces of Northern shit. Thank goodness their scourge is almost ended. Boltons well played, well played indeed.
The North Remembers

[Aenor]

Sirkdawg,

Funny story... some asshole back on the vztz boards posted in an unrelated thread that Jon Snow dies in Dance. I read that whole book with a sense of dread. Only later did I get on the Tor spoiler thread and read all the theories about him being Azor Ahai. BTW... if you are not following Leigh Butler's Read of Ice and Fire, you are missing out on some classic shit:

http://www.tor.com/features/series/a-read-of-ice-and-fire

[Aenor]

Alright guys, I'm changing my tune on the blond bitch with the lizard fetish, she's cool as fuck in Season 3.

She's aight but the season finale was weak, especially after the great cliffhangers for season 1 and 2 finales. The white savior crowd surfing in a sea of brown with Enya in the background? I think I threw up in my mouth a little watching that episode.

[Sirken]

Sirkdawg,

Funny story... some asshole back on the vztz boards posted in an unrelated thread that Jon Snow dies in Dance. I read that whole book with a sense of dread. Only later did I get on the Tor spoiler thread and read all the theories about him being Azor Ahai. BTW... if you are not following Leigh Butler's Read of Ice and Fire, you are missing out on some classic shit:

http://www.tor.com/features/series/a-read-of-ice-and-fire

i had someone tell me that stannis died in 5 (while i was still very early in 5) and then i finished it and was all WTF because i didnt see it that way. this was an ongoing argument until we got the answer in a chapter that GRRM released on his website

[Aenor]

Asha is off to the Dreadfort to rescue Theon. This is a bit of a departure from her attitude in the books and a bit of a change to her storyline - I wonder where they are going with this?

This was really jarring and pissed me off. For the first time I started to lump these writers in with the LotR movie writers. You think you can rewrite Tolkien? STFU.

[Aenor]

That being said, Way of Kings was one of my favorite books, plz let the rest of the series be good. Don't rush Sanderson...

I can never read anything by Sanderson again. The conclusion of WoT was the worst book I have ever read.

[Aenor]

this is long as fawk, but its funny as hell. absolutely priceless

http://www.happyplace.com/24297/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-3-episode-9

This part reminded me of raiding with Nihilum:

Tormund Giantsbane: Look, I could send you up there, but we only have a couple dozen guys to murder this elderly man. It's all hands on deck time.

[Sirken]

This was really jarring and pissed me off. For the first time I started to lump these writers in with the LotR movie writers. You think you can rewrite Tolkien? STFU.
it looks like they are speeding up Asha getting snatched up by stannis. remember HBO is going to cram the entire story into 7 seasons. season 4 is the second half of book 3. which means seasons 5 6 and 7 will have to be books 4 5 6 7.


This part reminded me of raiding with Nihilum:
Tormund Giantsbane: Look, I could send you up there, but we only have a couple dozen guys to murder this elderly man. It's all hands on deck time.
that whole facebook redwedding is absolutely priceless. i dont use facebook, so im sure i missed a few of the jokes, but i know enough about it to have found it extremely priceless.

[Retti_]

Hey Sirken pal

[Dalven]

it looks like they are speeding up Asha getting snatched up by stannis. remember HBO is going to cram the entire story into 7 seasons. season 4 is the second half of book 3. which means seasons 5 6 and 7 with have to be books 4 5 6 7.



that whole facebook redwedding is absolutely priceless. i dont use facebook, so im sure i missed a few of the jokes, but i know enough about it to have found it extremely priceless.

Season 5 is likely gonna be ADWD/AFFC, ending with Jon's cliffhanger death and Dany flying off on Drogon (but then we basically get two seasons of fucking Meereen). We'll definitely see the beginning of the Ironborn stuff from AFFC in this season as chronologically it takes place in ASOS. Might even see some Arya in Braavos - I can't see them having Arya trek around aimlessly with the Hound until he gets smoked for 10 episodes.

God, 7 seasons is just shit. And I'll probably have to stop watching after season 5.

[Sirken]

Season 5 is likely gonna be ADWD/AFFC, ending with Jon's cliffhanger death and Dany flying off on Drogon (but then we basically get two seasons of fucking Meereen). We'll definitely see the beginning of the Ironborn stuff from AFFC in this season as chronologically it takes place in ASOS. Might even see some Arya in Braavos - I can't see them having Arya trek around aimlessly with the Hound until he gets smoked for 10 episodes.

God, 7 seasons is just shit. And I'll probably have to stop watching after season 5.

i dont like it at all, but i have to agree with you. i'm HOPING they increase to 12 or 13 episodes per season to avoid cutting things out. but i'm thinking most of books 4 and 5 will make up season 5, considering 4 & 5 take place at the same time, its feasible.

but sad fact, it appears they did not cast the role of Coldhands for season 4. and we know they already cut out Loras' siblings (making him the heir to highgarden on the show). i will be REALLY nerdragingangry if they cut out the story of Arya and the Faceless men. the show ruined the Theon surprise, i have no idea if show watchers have learned who the guy is thats torturing theon, or how often we'll see it considering that goes on secretly from books 3-5.

but the Lady stoneheart. i still cant imagine they will keep an actress on contract to only show her in the final episode, its a waste of money from a production point of view.

super curious what the show is doing with Asha (or whatever her name on the show is), shes clearly going for Theon, but if shes to be intercepted by Stannis, then Stannis needs to get busy, he has a bunch of things to do before acquiring the pirate princess.

hmpf

[Mandalore93]

After finishing a storm of swords I can't believe I let the show ruin a lot of the book butit got a lot better at the end!

[Sirken]

oh man.. Storm of Swords is the best book (book 3) by far. and as you now know, anyone that quit at the RW and did not finish book 3 made a horrible mistake. Book 3 really doesnt even get started til the RW. Season 4 should be amazing.

now hurry up and force yourself through books 4 and 5. they arent as good as 3, but if you are into the actual "game" (ie: varys, baelish, the QoT, aka the plotter types), you will enjoy them.

<3

PS- i promise you the books are better than the show, its better to be ahead of the show in the books, i promise you.

[Derubael]

^can confirm the above statement is 100% true, and you're robbing yourself of an amazing experience by watching the show first.

[Retti_]

How are you Sirken I hope all is well

[Sirken]

How are you Sirken I hope all is well

im good. but im starting to get that ASOIAF itch again. need book 6 or season 4 soon.

season 4 will be all :eek::eek::eek: then :mad::mad: and :D:D followed by :cool::cool::cool:

[Mandalore93]

Baelish is becoming my favorite in the books...has the best mind and a lack of critical flaws aside from his lusting

[Funkutron5000]

I'd say Little Finger is also the most sociopathic.

[Mandalore93]

That's the best part about him! Diving right into feast of crows!

[Sirken]

Baelish is easily my favorite character.

Tyrion at #2, and Arya/Tywin are tied at #3

[Hailto]

daenerys/tyrion are my favs

[Sirken]

Dany gets on my nerves a lot until the end of book 5. i keep reminding myself that shes a dumb lil (like 16 yr old) girl. and is going to have brain fart moments from time to time.

know what i know about book 6 based on what GRRM has released so far, it looks like the dany story is going to pick up with her heading back to Mereen just in time to stop Victarion and Barriston from killing each other, squash the harpy crap, and sail that golden booty west.

[Elderan]

Dany gets on my nerves a lot until the end of book 5. i keep reminding myself that shes a dumb lil (like 16 yr old) girl. and is going to have brain fart moments from time to time.

know what i know about book 6 based on what GRRM has released so far, it looks like the dany story is going to pick up with her heading back to Mereen just in time to stop Victarion and Barriston from killing each other, squash the harpy crap, and sail that golden booty west.


Danys chapters are annoying as can be. If I read once more about how she is just a girl and cant control her desires I am gonna go crazy. But when she gets serious and goes bad ass she is great to read.

I am hoping the meereenese knot gets fixed soon. I have heard that it does early on in WoW though.

[Mandalore93]

All the children characters piss me off, but I would suppose that would just be my arrogance and superiority complex. I really love Baelish because of his lack of critical flaws which does make him sociopathic to a degree but honestly sociopaths probably make the best rulers anyways since they are always thinking with their head.

[Sirken]

Danys chapters are annoying as can be. If I read once more about how she is just a girl and cant control her desires I am gonna go crazy. But when she gets serious and goes bad ass she is great to read.

I am hoping the meereenese knot gets fixed soon. I have heard that it does early on in WoW though.

i dunno if people want book 6 spoilers, i suppose skip this post if u do not, but book 6 starts with the two big battles that book 5 leads up to (Mereen and Winterfell), that has been confirmed. and then the barriston chapter, he describes the armor of the men coming into Mereen, and while i could be wrong, it seemed to me he was describing Victarions army.

In other news, Winds of Winter pushed back to 2015-2017 http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/20338/20131013/winds-winter-release-date-delay-comic-con-george-r-r-martin.htm

[Derubael]

In other news, Winds of Winter pushed back to 2015-2017 http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/20338/20131013/winds-winter-release-date-delay-comic-con-george-r-r-martin.htm

shocking.


confirmed martin will be dead before he finishes books.

[Elderan]

i dunno if people want book 6 spoilers, i suppose skip this post if u do not, but book 6 starts with the two big battles that book 5 leads up to (Mereen and Winterfell), that has been confirmed. and then the barriston chapter, he describes the armor of the men coming into Mereen, and while i could be wrong, it seemed to me he was describing Victarions army.

In other news, Winds of Winter pushed back to 2015-2017 http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/20338/20131013/winds-winter-release-date-delay-comic-con-george-r-r-martin.htm

Yep, I have read all of the preview chapters and the ones he read out loud. It gives a good sense of where the book is going.

I just want to know a few things for sure... Was the letter to Jon really from Ramsay? What form is Jon still alive in? There are tons more but those are my two most immediate questions I want answered.

[Dalven]

Danys chapters are annoying as can be. If I read once more about how she is just a girl and cant control her desires I am gonna go crazy. But when she gets serious and goes bad ass she is great to read.

I am hoping the meereenese knot gets fixed soon. I have heard that it does early on in WoW though.

I'm pretty sure the end of the Meereenese episodes will be on us quickly - now that Dany is riding her dragons and the Ironborn are there with the dragon horn and Moqorro I think Dany will be looking west soon.

Yep, I have read all of the preview chapters and the ones he read out loud. It gives a good sense of where the book is going.

I just want to know a few things for sure... Was the letter to Jon really from Ramsay? What form is Jon still alive in? There are tons more but those are my two most immediate questions I want answered.

I'm not convinced the letter from Ramsay is real, but if it isn't the only person who has all the knowledge contained within is Mance. Then again, we don't know what is going on in Winterfell, if any of his chicks were taken alive. Although it might not necessarily mean anything due to the convulated timeline across books the Theon preview chapter casts a bit of doubt over its legitimacy.

Jon will most likely have warged into Ghost - the whole prologue thing with Varamyr Sixskins is a good candidate for foreshadowing for it.



In other news, Winds of Winter pushed back to 2015-2017 http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/20338/20131013/winds-winter-release-date-delay-comic-con-george-r-r-martin.htm

/wrist

[Sirken]

just watch. for the ultimate troll, Jon will be dead dead, Dany will die in 6, and the song of Ice and Fire will be about Arya and Aegon hooking up, instead of Dany and Jon

[Sirken]

GRRM confirmed to have written episode 2 of season 4 (http://grrm.livejournal.com/318880.html?thread=17543584#t17543584)


soooo.... Purple Wedding in Ep2? what else could it be?!?

[Elderan]

GRRM confirmed to have written episode 2 of season 4 (http://grrm.livejournal.com/318880.html?thread=17543584#t17543584)


soooo.... Purple Wedding in Ep2? what else could it be?!?

I know it is early in season 4, they have confirmed that. We should know for sure once they release the episode titles.

I will enjoy that episode very much. I really hope they give it justice on the show.

[Funkutron5000]

I just look forward to that little shit dying. Jack Gleeson has fucking killed it in that role. He's made Joff the perfect little monster that is oh so easy to hate.

[Dalven]

Surely the Purple Wedding - preperations were well underway in Season 3 and he has to be dead before Jaime gets back to King's Landing. If I remember rightly he's already on his way with Brienne in tow. This surely means we'll be getting Oberyn Martell in episode one as well.

Eight episodes then for Tyrion's trial, the battle at the wall (what was the situation at the wall at the end of season 3?), Stannis shenanigans, more Theon torture and Asha rescuing, Dany taking Meereen, some Ironborn - Balon has to die as well as Euron appearing, Arya and the Hound.

Awesome.

[Sirken]

I know it is early in season 4, they have confirmed that. We should know for sure once they release the episode titles. I will enjoy that episode very much. I really hope they give it justice on the show.
you and i both. they did a great job on the red wedding. i have faith. follow the hairnet. will there be a hairnet? will it come from the fat drunk she saved in S2 E1?

I just look forward to that little shit dying. Jack Gleeson has fucking killed it in that role. He's made Joff the perfect little monster that is oh so easy to hate.
hes such a good actor, i really want to punch him in the teeth. ive seen him do panels and Q&As, he seems like a really great guy

Surely the Purple Wedding - preperations were well underway in Season 3 and he has to be dead before Jaime gets back to King's Landing. If I remember rightly he's already on his way with Brienne in tow. This surely means we'll be getting Oberyn Martell in episode one as well. Eight episodes then for Tyrion's trial, the battle at the wall (what was the situation at the wall at the end of season 3?), Stannis shenanigans, more Theon torture and Asha rescuing, Dany taking Meereen, some Ironborn - Balon has to die as well as Euron appearing, Arya and the Hound. Awesome.
im thinking the PW as well. im pretty sure Jaime is already back in KL. i seem to remember him entering Cersei's room. we have to have Oberyn by ep3 if the PW is in ep2. and hopefully they will give him deserved screen time starting in ep1. not 8 eps for the trial either. the tywin tyrionn shae thing will be in 9, which means hound vs redviper will be in 8 or 9, marking the end of the trial. if i remember the wall situation correctly, mormont bit the dust, and Melisandre told stannis about the real battle in the north. i imagine we wont see stannis and company for a bit and then they appear to save the day in episode 10. ygritte will probably get it around ep4 or ep5. Asha prolly gonna get body snatched by stannis, Dany.. i dunno, plan to have things cut out. Balon, Euron, Victarion. but with asha already gone, she wont be at the kingsmoot. im going to LOVE the arya / hound buddy story

[Sirken]

S4 Ep9 titled "Castle Black"

new actors for Gregor Clegane, Tommen Baratheon, and Daario

D&D wrote Ep1, GRRM wrote Ep2.

the actor, Tony Way, has been brought back to play Ser Dontos Hollard, so thats a thing for the pw.

new peeps include
Roger Ashton-Griffiths as Mace Tyrell the Lord of Highgarden.
Lu Corfield as a Mole Town bordello owner.
Paola Dionisotti as Lady Anya Waynwood, a bannerman of House Arryn.
Hoji Fortuna in an unknown role.
Joel Fry as Hizdahr zo Loraq, the young scion of an ancient Meereenese noble family.
Mark Gatiss as Tycho Nestoris, a representative of the Iron Bank of Braavos.
Joseph Gatt as ????
Pedro Pascal as Oberyn Martell, called the "Red Viper", the younger brother of Doran Martell.
Indira Varma as Ellaria Sand, the paramour of Oberyn Martell.
Rupert Vansittart as Bronze Yohn Royce, a bannerman of House Arryn.
Elizabeth Webster as Walda Frey, the new wife of Roose Bolton.
Yuri Kolokolnikov as Styr, the Magnar of Thenn.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones_%28season_4%29

[Mandalore93]

Finishing up Feast of Crows, on the last Brienne chapter then 2 more to go in total. Really loving the intrigues of this book and the way the viewpoint skips around and leaves a lot more to think about it. By contrast the first three books were a lot more cut and dried imo.

[Dalven]

you and i both. they did a great job on the red wedding. i have faith. follow the hairnet. will there be a hairnet? will it come from the fat drunk she saved in S2 E1?


hes such a good actor, i really want to punch him in the teeth. ive seen him do panels and Q&As, he seems like a really great guy


im thinking the PW as well. im pretty sure Jaime is already back in KL. i seem to remember him entering Cersei's room. we have to have Oberyn by ep3 if the PW is in ep2. and hopefully they will give him deserved screen time starting in ep1. not 8 eps for the trial either. the tywin tyrionn shae thing will be in 9, which means hound vs redviper will be in 8 or 9, marking the end of the trial. if i remember the wall situation correctly, mormont bit the dust, and Melisandre told stannis about the real battle in the north. i imagine we wont see stannis and company for a bit and then they appear to save the day in episode 10. ygritte will probably get it around ep4 or ep5. Asha prolly gonna get body snatched by stannis, Dany.. i dunno, plan to have things cut out. Balon, Euron, Victarion. but with asha already gone, she wont be at the kingsmoot. im going to LOVE the arya / hound buddy story

You're right about Jaime, he'll get to see the little shit die in the series then. I'm hoping we'll get Oberyn in episode one - hopefully they'll have him arrive for the wedding. I wonder if they'll drop in the hints about him poisoning Tywin or just leave it at Tyrion smoking him. Gonna be a good series for Jon and the wall with all that to come - surely it will end with Jon being elected Lord Commander. Also wondering how they're gonna work Stoneheart if they need to use the actress throughout the series.

S4 Ep9 titled "Castle Black"

new actors for Gregor Clegane, Tommen Baratheon, and Daario

D&D wrote Ep1, GRRM wrote Ep2.

the actor, Tony Way, has been brought back to play Ser Dontos Hollard, so thats a thing for the pw.

new peeps include
Roger Ashton-Griffiths as Mace Tyrell the Lord of Highgarden.
Lu Corfield as a Mole Town bordello owner.
Paola Dionisotti as Lady Anya Waynwood, a bannerman of House Arryn.
Hoji Fortuna in an unknown role.
Joel Fry as Hizdahr zo Loraq, the young scion of an ancient Meereenese noble family.
Mark Gatiss as Tycho Nestoris, a representative of the Iron Bank of Braavos.
Joseph Gatt as ????
Pedro Pascal as Oberyn Martell, called the "Red Viper", the younger brother of Doran Martell.
Indira Varma as Ellaria Sand, the paramour of Oberyn Martell.
Rupert Vansittart as Bronze Yohn Royce, a bannerman of House Arryn.
Elizabeth Webster as Walda Frey, the new wife of Roose Bolton.
Yuri Kolokolnikov as Styr, the Magnar of Thenn.


Interesting ones that stand out there to me are Hizdahr and Tycho. I don't remember seeing Hizdahr in ASOS so I wonder if we'll be getting some of the ADWD stuff in Meereen or whether he'll just be introduced towards the end. Mark Gatiss is a great actor (love the League of Gentlemen) to be cast and fairly high profile in the UK - if I remember rightly the Iron Bank representative was first in AFFC asking for cash from Cersei then the next time we see him is when he treks to the wall so I wonder if we'll be seeing a bit more from that role in this series.

Finishing up Feast of Crows, on the last Brienne chapter then 2 more to go in total. Really loving the intrigues of this book and the way the viewpoint skips around and leaves a lot more to think about it. By contrast the first three books were a lot more cut and dried imo.

Yeah a definite change of pace in that book after the culmination of the various shit storms in a storm of swords - a lot more exploration of the ramifications of the war and setting a lot of the characters up for whats to come I think.

[Sirken]

Finishing up Feast of Crows, on the last Brienne chapter then 2 more to go in total. Really loving the intrigues of this book and the way the viewpoint skips around and leaves a lot more to think about it. By contrast the first three books were a lot more cut and dried imo.
just remember that book 5 starts after book 3, and then the timeline merges with book 4 around 750 pages in with a chapter in kings landing. the second half of book 3 is an insanity joy ride with no one at the controls. book 4 is essentially the dust settling, and then most of book 5 is just setting up book 6.

[Sirken]

You're right about Jaime, he'll get to see the little shit die in the series then. I'm hoping we'll get Oberyn in episode one - hopefully they'll have him arrive for the wedding. I wonder if they'll drop in the hints about him poisoning Tywin or just leave it at Tyrion smoking him. Gonna be a good series for Jon and the wall with all that to come - surely it will end with Jon being elected Lord Commander. Also wondering how they're gonna work Stoneheart if they need to use the actress throughout the series.
The Tywin thing is interesting because the book only hints at it, the rest comes from tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists like myself. Although, it would not be the first time the show took a liberty to clear up some speculation (ie: Robb Starks wife).


Interesting ones that stand out there to me are Hizdahr and Tycho. I don't remember seeing Hizdahr in ASOS so I wonder if we'll be getting some of the ADWD stuff in Meereen or whether he'll just be introduced towards the end. Mark Gatiss is a great actor (love the League of Gentlemen) to be cast and fairly high profile in the UK - if I remember rightly the Iron Bank representative was first in AFFC asking for cash from Cersei then the next time we see him is when he treks to the wall so I wonder if we'll be seeing a bit more from that role in this series.
from what ive read it looks like the back half of book 3 and some parts possibly of books 4 and 5. my memory agrees with yours on Tychos, but i probably wouldnt have noticed him with all the stuff goin on in 3. i think they are accelerating the Asha/Stannis thing, so Tychos needs to speed up and get to Stannis.


Yeah a definite change of pace in that book after the culmination of the various shit storms in a storm of swords - a lot more exploration of the ramifications of the war and setting a lot of the characters up for whats to come I think.
well, we can hope. im still not ruling out GRRM trolling everyone, Keep Jon dead, Kill Dany in Book 6, have Arya and Aegon hook up, call their wedding song, A Song of Ice and Fire, and call it a day. realistically Aegon has a more legit claim to the throne than Dany does. but in truth, i see Dany hooking up with Victarian, at least for a short bit.

[Dalven]

The Tywin thing is interesting because the book only hints at it, the rest comes from tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists like myself. Although, it would not be the first time the show took a liberty to clear up some speculation (ie: Robb Starks wife).



from what ive read it looks like the back half of book 3 and some parts possibly of books 4 and 5. my memory agrees with yours on Tychos, but i probably wouldnt have noticed him with all the stuff goin on in 3. i think they are accelerating the Asha/Stannis thing, so Tychos needs to speed up and get to Stannis.



well, we can hope. im still not ruling out GRRM trolling everyone, Keep Jon dead, Kill Dany in Book 6, have Arya and Aegon hook up, call their wedding song, A Song of Ice and Fire, and call it a day. realistically Aegon has a more legit claim to the throne than Dany does. but in truth, i see Dany hooking up with Victarian, at least for a short bit.

I'm a massive asoiaf tinfoil hat fan - I definitely subscribe to the Tywin poisoning, I remember being confused about why the corpse was so minging at the time. Did you read that meereeneseblot blog linked a few pages back? Dude has got some pretty good arguments for a conspiracy in Meereen.

Haha, if he's playing the long con I don't think anyone else could top a 20 year troll. I'm not convinced about Dany and Victarion although you seem convinced by the kraken and the dragon getting it together.

[Sidelle]

I'm happy there is a new Daario. The old one was a perfect example of terrible casting. He looked like he could be Dany's older sister.

This new one has potential. I can really picture him as the ruthless, roguish sellsword - as we know him in the books - and I can't wait to see him in his GoT wardrobe.

http://thenosebleeds.nextimpulsemedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/GOTIn.jpg

[Mandalore93]

I don't think I'm going to enjoy Book 5 as much as Book 4 because Book 4 had a lot more chapters of the older characters so I would assume I would get more Bran/Arya in Book 5. Although Arya has gotten a lot better now that she's in Bravos. And Sansa's chapters are now a lot more about Baelish so those went from being the ones I hated to the ones I love. I'm listening to them on audio book at work so I have no idea about pages and what not. Good to know about the time line though!

[Sidelle]

Omg he is so hot in this pic I will overlook that he appear to be licking his own armpit? Hahahah!

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/42105923/Michiel+Huisman+image80ky2.jpg

[Funkutron5000]

Things I didn't expect to see in the ASOIAF thread: a dude licking his own, or anyone's armpit.

[Sidelle]

Lol sorry about that. Just thought that was funny shit. :)

[Dalven]

Lol Sidelle wtf was that!?

I didn't like who they cast for Daariob either - was majorly disappointed when he didn't have a blue trident beard.

[Sidelle]

Lol Sidelle wtf was that!?

I didn't like who they cast for Daariob either - was majorly disappointed when he didn't have a blue trident beard.

LOL! HUGS DALVEN. :) Sorry for the armpit thing.

[Sirken]

I'm happy there is a new Daario. The old one was a perfect example of terrible casting. He looked like he could be Dany's older sister.
This new one has potential. I can really picture him as the ruthless, roguish sellsword - as we know him in the books
we have different reasons im sure, but youre right. for a show that has done so incredibly well with casting thus far, really dropped the ball with Season3 Daario.

I don't think I'm going to enjoy Book 5 as much as Book 4 because Book 4 had a lot more chapters of the older characters so I would assume I would get more Bran/Arya in Book 5. Although Arya has gotten a lot better now that she's in Bravos. And Sansa's chapters are now a lot more about Baelish so those went from being the ones I hated to the ones I love. I'm listening to them on audio book at work so I have no idea about pages and what not. Good to know about the time line though!
book 5 is a lot of the wall, the north, and everything across the narrow sea, from Braavos to Astapor and everything in between

was majorly disappointed when he didn't have a blue trident beard.
and that^

[Sirken]

I'm a massive asoiaf tinfoil hat fan - I definitely subscribe to the Tywin poisoning, I remember being confused about why the corpse was so minging at the time. Did you read that meereeneseblot blog linked a few pages back? Dude has got some pretty good arguments for a conspiracy in Meereen.

Haha, if he's playing the long con I don't think anyone else could top a 20 year troll. I'm not convinced about Dany and Victarion although you seem convinced by the kraken and the dragon getting it together.

im convinced Tywin was poisoned and wont be convinced otherwise. ill be watching the show to see if he has stomach problems or appears weaker than normal.

as far as Victarion and Dany - Vics red priest is #2 in that religion, and was sent to convert Dany in the same fashion that Thoros was sent to convert Robert. furthermore we know from Vic's PoV that he's headed to Mereen because of Dany. Now Vic is smart and he knows Euron has tricks up his sleeve which may serve up Victarion as the main course. His only chance to take the Iron Isles from Euron while keeping the ironborn citizens in his corner is the assistance of dragons, and/or being recognized as king of the iron isles by the king/queen in Kings Landing. Now Dany needs a ton o ships for her people and troops, ships that Victarion has. they could easily strike a deal along the lines of, Vic sails Dany and company to Westeros to assist her with taking the throne in KL, and then in return Dany names Vic King of the Iron Islands, and can offer actual assistance in the form of fire and blood to help secure Victarion's position as they leader.

[Mandalore93]

Just finished a dance with dragons.
Jon Snow confirmed dumb Stark fuck. Got what he deserved. No res for him please. Can't wait to see how all these story arcs are going to come to conclusion...tbh I don't see things getting completed in two books as it stands unless there's a massive character kill off. Even in this book when they threw in characters that hadn't made an appearance since Feast of Crows I'm like "fuck, where was this person last and what were they doing, with whom, etc"

[Sidelle]

Wtf... missing posts! Including one I made earlier today. Forgot wtf I said. Lol

[Sirken]

forums got rolled back to saturday

gems are lost forever :(

[Dalven]

Did I miss anything good by not forum questing this weekend?

and belatedly...

as far as Victarion and Dany - Vics red priest is #2 in that religion, and was sent to convert Dany in the same fashion that Thoros was sent to convert Robert. furthermore we know from Vic's PoV that he's headed to Mereen because of Dany. Now Vic is smart and he knows Euron has tricks up his sleeve which may serve up Victarion as the main course. His only chance to take the Iron Isles from Euron while keeping the ironborn citizens in his corner is the assistance of dragons, and/or being recognized as king of the iron isles by the king/queen in Kings Landing. Now Dany needs a ton o ships for her people and troops, ships that Victarion has. they could easily strike a deal along the lines of, Vic sails Dany and company to Westeros to assist her with taking the throne in KL, and then in return Dany names Vic King of the Iron Islands, and can offer actual assistance in the form of fire and blood to help secure Victarion's position as they leader.

Aye, I agree this is the most likely scenario but seems a tad too easy - dragon horn, Vic's smoking hand and Moqorro will also be interesting factors about Vic and Dany's meeting. I also think there is more to Euron than just being the mad, bad and mental returning brother come home to reclaim his fathers kingdom.

[Retti_]

Can't wait for next season of GOT

Hi Sirken I'm at your mercy

[Sirken]

Did I miss anything good by not forum questing this weekend?

and belatedly...



Aye, I agree this is the most likely scenario but seems a tad too easy - dragon horn, Vic's smoking hand and Moqorro will also be interesting factors about Vic and Dany's meeting. I also think there is more to Euron than just being the mad, bad and mental returning brother come home to reclaim his fathers kingdom.

you surely did miss posts, we had a small forum roll back, things be gone forever. the horn is important. its the image on the cover of book 6. i feel Vic and Dany will hook up, and that Vic will at some point betray her or flat out die for another reason, but Vic is Dany's ONLY chance of getting all her people and armies over to westeros.

And Euron... you are right that there is much more to that character. i'm hoping we will get to see / learn a lot about him in book 6 before he eventually gets slewn (cause we all know he will).

AND i could be wrong, but it looks like Season 4 is going to merge some greyjoys, and cut the kingsmoot

[Sirken]

looks like we're losing some of those sand snake ladies as well.

i still have not heard anything about Coldhands being casted for season 4. so maybe cut?

also, Michelle Fairley acting on a show called Suits.. so maybe no Lady Stoneheart, or a new actress, OR they let her do Suits because shes only going to be in season 4 briefly.

i just dont know, but im curious, do u guys want Michelle Fairley back as Stoneheart, or a new actress all together?

[Zadrian]

Just watched the first Episode last night..

They're really in your face about trying to be vulgar and show you boobs. Pretty sure at least 3 different characters said, "I just wanna fuck girls!" or something similar

Not that I'm opposed to vulgarity in any way, it just seemed forced. Episode 2 tonight.

[Zadrian]

I've never actually read the books before. I walked into a book store once and considered reading them, but I decided against it. I never got into medieval fantasy when it came to books. I tried reading Dragonlance once. I got the first 3 books and read 1.5 of them - then just burned out.

I'll probably give ice and fire a try at some point.

As far as the first episode goes, I can understand that they are trying to portray characters as scumbags as we would see them in real life. That seems to be the popular way of directing nowadays (Breaking Bad, Walking Dead etc). It just seemed like they tried too hard to be edgy establishment in the first episode - but then again, I guess you gotta hook people somehow.

I made the mistake of watching the South Park episode before watching actual GoT, so when the intro song came on, all I heard was, "Wieners, wiener wieners..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmO5IxbUpTE


(Are we unable to embed youtube links now?)

[Sirken]

i believe we are indeed unable to embed. i actually still havent seen the southparks that reference GoT, but i will one of these days. READ THE BOOKS, or, listen to the audio books. but you miss soooooo much if u dont read. its simply not possible to include all the characters or all the scheming.

first episode is meh. it takes a lil bit of time for the actors to slip into the roles for me, and the pilot is just that.. the pilot. watch 3 or 4 episodes and you will be hooked. i just rewatched seasons 1 and 2 over the weekend, gonna knock out season 3 on friday and saturday, and then just wait til the first week of april or last week of march for season 4.

so much good shit will be in season 4.

[Sidelle]

...READ THE BOOKS, or, listen to the audio books. but you miss soooooo much if u dont read. its simply not possible to include all the characters or all the scheming.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Also, for me it's more than just being about not missing all the details and characters they either change or exclude in the show. I've never had a set of characters and circumstances actually evoke such emotional responses in me as it does while reading this series. The sadness, shock, anger, dispair, pity, fear, and horror - just to name a few - which to me makes a story like this completely genius and a must-read. It's so worth it.

[Zadrian]

i believe we are indeed unable to embed. i actually still havent seen the southparks that reference GoT, but i will one of these days. READ THE BOOKS, or, listen to the audio books. but you miss soooooo much if u dont read. its simply not possible to include all the characters or all the scheming.

first episode is meh. it takes a lil bit of time for the actors to slip into the roles for me, and the pilot is just that.. the pilot. watch 3 or 4 episodes and you will be hooked. i just rewatched seasons 1 and 2 over the weekend, gonna knock out season 3 on friday and saturday, and then just wait til the first week of april or last week of march for season 4.

so much good shit will be in season 4.


We just finished season 2 a couple days ago... Just waiting for season 3 to come out on blue ray in feb - so I will catch it all before season 4 in March.

One question: is Danerys supposed to be annoying as fuck? I hope she's a bit more likable in the books since it seems like everyone is supposed to like her, because DRAGONS (or some such silliness)

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Also, for me it's more than just being about not missing all the details and characters they either change or exclude in the show. I've never had a set of characters and circumstances actually evoke such emotional responses in me as it does while reading this series. The sadness, shock, anger, dispair, pity, fear, and horror - just to name a few - which to me makes a story like this completely genius and a must-read. It's so worth it.

I will have to give the books a shot. It's been a while since I've been able to get through a book without getting bored - so hopefully these will keep my attention.

[Sidelle]

We just finished season 2 a couple days ago... Just waiting for season 3 to come out on blue ray in feb - so I will catch it all before season 4 in March.

One question: is Danerys supposed to be annoying as fuck? I hope she's a bit more likable in the books since it seems like everyone is supposed to like her, because DRAGONS (or some such silliness)



I will have to give the books a shot. It's been a while since I've been able to get through a book without getting bored so hopefully these will keep my attention.
I don't think boredom will be an issue if you choose to read this series because GRRM weaves it all together so well. I really like the way he focuses each chapter on just one main character at a time for this very reason. To me, it's more exciting so I never feel bored. It's pretty cool that he can make you root for more than one side too. It's because the characters are so well developed. I love that about this series.

I can't tell you how many books I start to read but end up abandoning because I just don't care what happens to the characters.

I think Danaerys will come into her own eventually. I have to keep reminding myself sometimes that she is just a teenage girl. I like her in spite of her flaws and still think she will be a complete badass someday. :)

[Nocsucow]

is there a set date on when season 4 starts?

[Sirken]

Last week of March, first week of April

[Sirken]

I think Danaerys will come into her own eventually. I have to keep reminding myself sometimes that she is just a teenage girl. I like her in spite of her flaws and still think she will be a complete badass someday. :)

Dany you say. i have a lot of thoughts about Dany. Firstly, the Khal Jhaqo is gonna die, his khalasar will follow Dany, because she has a f'ing dragon. Next i think she (with her dragon and with her newly acquired khalasar) will arrive back in Mereen just before Victarion's army and Barriston's army come to blows. at that point, they should make a deal because they all can help each other. Dany needs Vic's boats to move her people, armies, and dragons to Westeros (prob dragonstone cause history repeats itself). Vic needs Dany to help him with removing Euron and ruling over the iron islands.

Vic sadly wont last. and might already have expired (Interesting theory I heard on a podcast: Vicatarion is "dead". If you go back to the chapter where Moqorro "heals" Vic's hand, it starts off as a first person chapter (per usual), meaning reading things and thoughts from Vic's perspective. Then they go into Vic's cabin, lock the door, and Moqorro does his thing. Now, when they emerge from the cabin (after the crew hearing all sorts of weird shit going on in there), the rest of the chapter changed to a THIRD person perspective, narrator style, instead of seeing things through Vic like usual. Then, there's one of Dany's prophecies, seeing a "dead man smiling sadly on a prow on a ship with grey lips". Vic, possibly? Don't have books on hand to better cite, gonna look at it later when I get home. Just found the theory curious (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/99819-is-victarion-already-dead/))

so maybe Asha ends up in charge of iron islands after all (with Vic and Euron out of the picture). but thats another story. with the Iron Islands on her side, along with Aegon and Connington setting up shop, i'd expect her to hit KL first. Dorne will back her, and the stage will be set for Dany and the south to fight Stannis, Jon Snow, and the North.

Oh but wait, fucking Whitewalkers finally show up and everyone joins forces to defeat those zombie blue eyed fuckers. then since they are all pals, and Stannis cant win against Dragons, Dany will win the throne and hook up with her nephew Jon Snow, Stannis will take the black and be the 1000th commander of the nights watch, Gendry will be legit Baratheon and lord of the House, and will hook up with Arya. but im getting off topic.

Dany will live happily ever after with Jon, and they will rule westeros.

/tinfoil off

[radditsu]

Dany you say. i have a lot of thoughts about Dany. Firstly, the Khal Jhaqo is gonna die, his khalasar will follow Dany, because she has a f'ing dragon. Next i think she (with her dragon and with her newly acquired khalasar) will arrive back in Mereen just before Victarion's army and Barriston's army come to blows. at that point, they should make a deal because they all can help each other. Dany needs Vic's boats to move her people, armies, and dragons to Westeros (prob dragonstone cause history repeats itself). Vic needs Dany to help him with removing Euron and ruling over the iron islands.

Vic sadly wont last. and might already have expired

so maybe Asha ends up in charge of iron islands after all (with Vic and Euron out of the picture). but thats another story. with the Iron Islands on her side, along with Aegon and Connington setting up shop, i'd expect her to hit KL first. Dorne will back her, and the stage will be set for Dany and the south to fight Stannis, Jon Snow, and the North.

Oh but wait, fucking Whitewalkers finally show up and everyone joins forces to defeat those zombie blue eyed fuckers. then since they are all pals, and Stannis cant win against Dragons, Dany will win the throne and hook up with her nephew Jon Snow, Stannis will take the black and be the 1000th commander of the nights watch, Gendry will be legit Baratheon and lord of the House, and will hook up with Arya. but im getting off topic.

Dany will live happily ever after with Jon, and they will rule westeros.

/tinfoil off

Or in true fantasy fashion. Rocks fall...everyone dies

[Sirken]

Or in true fantasy fashion. Rocks fall...everyone dies

thats what happened at blackwater. rocks fall, heads go pop. now moving on!

[Iandyan]

So I read the first page of this thread and the last couple so forgive me if I'm repeating stuff but I thought i would throw some ideas I had about Dany out there to see what people think.

Dany = Azor Ahai

She woke dragons from stone (the eggs) and did so by burning the blood and body of a king.

You can try to argue that Khal Drogo wasn't a king but it seems like a cultural difference at best to me.

My prediction is that Dany will kill Jon (just like when Azor Ahai killed his wife) to make a weapon that can defeat whatever is controlling the whitewalkers.

Anyways let me know if this stuff is old news but hey its always fun to discuss ASOIAF.

[Sidelle]

I know it's a couple months til season 4 of GoT but I'm posting this old video anyway. Just because I love this version of the theme song.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0OWQXQgHgq8

[Rhambuk]

just caught up and finished season 3, simply unimpressed by the lack of content but now I have 600+ posts to read....

[Sirken]

So I read the first page of this thread and the last couple so forgive me if I'm repeating stuff but I thought i would throw some ideas I had about Dany out there to see what people think.

Dany = Azor Ahai

She woke dragons from stone (the eggs) and did so by burning the blood and body of a king.

You can try to argue that Khal Drogo wasn't a king but it seems like a cultural difference at best to me.

My prediction is that Dany will kill Jon (just like when Azor Ahai killed his wife) to make a weapon that can defeat whatever is controlling the whitewalkers.

Anyways let me know if this stuff is old news but hey its always fun to discuss ASOIAF.

ok, i thought i responded to this already, but apparently i failed hard. Ohh Dany. shes important, we know this, what we don;t know is her exact purpose. is she meant to rule? or was she just supposed to be "the mother of dragons" aka the person that birthed dragons back into the world, for another person to sit on the throne.

Personally i dont think Dany will sit the iron throne. firstly, Aegon (fake or not) has a better claim than Dany as he is supposedly Rhaegar's son. and guess what, if u subscribe to R+L=J then, the mr Jon Snow would be 2nd in line to the throne after Aegon. Leaving Dany, at best, third in line to the throne (oh and spoiler alert, Dorne is the only kingdom that allows a woman to rule completely on her own and not as a man proxy.

so theres all that. my opinion is that Aegon is either Illyrio's kid, or, a blackfyre, and that he will be slain. Jon and Dany will hook up. Dany will die at some point, but it will be dramatic, she will die to protect all of the people of westeros (similar to the jesus dying for everyones sins story).

after Aegon is proven false or killed, after Dany gives her life to save us from the walkers, Jon Snow will sit the iron throne, and will rule over the kingdoms. if Jon is still to much of a girl to sit the throne, i wouldnt be surprised at all if Gendry is legitimized and named Lord of House Baratheon (assuming i'm right that Stannis will end up as the 1000th commander of the nights watch, but theres a long shot that Dany no longer will have use for her mormont and he will take the black to follow in his fathers footsteps at the wall)

Personally, i dont think Dany can be AA. in all of melisandres fire visions she sees a very dark haired man. she assumes this is Stannis, but it may in fact be Jon Snow, and i think Melisandre starts to think this by end of book 5. furthermore, im 99% convinved that AAs sword (Lightbringer) is either a metaphor for the nights watch men (ie: the sword in the darkness, defenders of the realm, etc), or, the sword lightbringer is actually the ancient sword of Dorne refered to as "Dawn". we know Dawn is not valayarian steel, yet contains magical properties. we know the blade had a milky glow to it when Ned saw Sir Arthur Dayne holding it. And we know that its mentioned in every book, yet never seen. (Stannis' sword is not Lightbringer, as Aemon comments on in book 4, Lightbringers blade is supposed to both show and radiate heat, and stannis' sword does not). also Aemon says "The sword is wrong, she has to know that ... light without heat ... an empty glamour ... the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness” - the dying Maester Aemon, to Samwell Tarly

ok back on track - first i agree, Drogo had kings blood. he was a king, and i dont see what easten magics would favor westeros kings over any other kind. the kings blood from drogo was a huge part of the magic used to hatch those dragon eggs.

personally, i still expect Jon to be AA, after he gets his 96% rezz he would be free from his nightswatch vows. he could easily gather up the wildlings and their army and be like, lets go stomp out Ramsay and the boltons. but thats a story for another day ;)

[Funkutron5000]

I know it's a couple months til season 4 of GoT but I'm posting this old video anyway. Just because I love this version of the theme song.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0OWQXQgHgq8

This is the best version of the theme song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N02amlMkVJw

[Rhambuk]

I always skip themes/intros to a tv show.

Never in GoT though its so awesome

[Sirken]

just caught up and finished season 3, simply unimpressed by the lack of content but now I have 600+ posts to read....
you sir shouldnt be here if u have read all the books. this thread is long and full of terrors. sadly season 3 was only first half of book 3, and most of book 3 is a bunch of assholes walking around talking to each other. and then the red wedding happens, and shit gets real. no happy endings in this story.

[Sirken]

This is the best version of the theme song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N02amlMkVJw

no this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Ytxlvt_J8

[Mac Dretti]

NEW GOT COMING R U ESSSSITED

Re watching the series from season 1 w the gf getting reimmersed

[Sirken]

NEW GOT COMING R U ESSSSITED

Re watching the series from season 1 w the gf getting reimmersed

super excited.

the GF might try to bail after ned and drogo. tie her down and force her through seasons 2 and 3 if needed.

[Sirken]

and this


http://img.pandawhale.com/63601-Condescending-Wonka-George-RR-b0ra.jpeg

[Rhambuk]

you sir shouldnt be here if u have read all the books. this thread is long and full of terrors. sadly season 3 was only first half of book 3, and most of book 3 is a bunch of assholes walking around talking to each other. and then the red wedding happens, and shit gets real. no happy endings in this story.

not really keeping up with this thread because of this reason.

was so disappointed in S3 show because nothing fucking happened until the red wedding.

[Mandalore93]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25KABvPbq-U
Best intro

[Sirken]

not really keeping up with this thread because of this reason.

was so disappointed in S3 show because nothing fucking happened until the red wedding.

yea thats how the book was too. the first 500 or so pages was just a bunch of assholes walking around talking. they covered that spot on. then from red wedding til the very last page of book 3 is omgwtfepicwin.

hopefully they cover the second half just as well, cause lets be real, book 3 was the best book so far.




S4 Trailer_01 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZY43QSx3Fk

[Sirken]

Season 4 Trailer infos -



Jaime's hair is short. saw Joffrey sitting at what HAS to be the purple wedding. Saw a clip of RedViper vs Mountain. Saw Oathkeeper(aka half of Ice) being given to Jaime. saw bran touching a tree in that dirty kinda way. Saw Melisandre in a colder looking place. Saw Tyrion in dem black cells.

did i miss anything?

didn't see any cold hands, or the sandsnakes (i know for sure 1 actress was cast, they might merge them all into her)

FAWK

[Nocsucow]

here it is if you didnt see my thread SEASON 4 TRAILER "SQUIRT"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZY43QSx3Fk

[Sidelle]

Sirken, your GoT posts make my head spin - in a good way though. It gets me thinking and it's a fun way to pass the time as we endlessly wait for the next book release. (BTW DANY WILL NOT DIE, GODDAMMIT!) :D

I just started reading the series again and this time I am taking a few notes. I know, what a nerd. But my memory sucks and I am always forgetting little details. Anyway, the season 4 trailer looks awesome, it got me all excited. April can't come soon enough.


P.S. Lol @ your guys' versions of the GoT intro music.

[Sidelle]

Ok, will do.

[Sirken]

Ok, will do.

specifically for visions, im looking for the vision of Rhaegar, i wanna know if its Lyanna with him. and then a vision of possibly Vic. (yes i know one of them was the RW).

i've been buying tinfoil since spring. no theory is to crazy (unless i already think something else :p )

[Mac Dretti]

super excited.

the GF might try to bail after ned and drogo. tie her down and force her through seasons 2 and 3 if needed.

She's a super fan no need to tie down. She cried after both tho.

[Sirken]

She's a super fan no need to tie down. She cried after both tho.

yea, thats gonna happen. dem females and their QQ

my advice would be to tell her not to cheer for people she loves to win, but to just hope for all the people she hates to die.

with GRRM writing S4E2, i think its safe to say EVERYBODY is going to be really over the moon happy that night.

<3

[Iandyan]

Isn't there a 4th sand snake that's been MIA this whole time?

I think there's one sentence in one of the books where Doran is like "Oh don't worry about ________. She has been in King's landing for awhile."

For some reason that's got my tinfoil hat all aquiver.

[Sirken]

Eight sand snakes, in order of age:

Obara Sand. Daughter of a whore of Oldtown, and given to martial pursuits as she considers herself a warrior, wielding a spear and whip. She is a sturdily built woman of swarthy coloring and no particular beauty.

Nymeria Sand. Called 'Lady Nym', her mother was a noblewoman from Old Volantis. Nymeria is elegant, refined, and beautiful with dark eyes and silky black hair worn in a braid bound with copper wires.

Tyene Sand. Daughter of a septa. Tyene is closest of all the Sand Snakes to her cousin Arianne. She is known to have skills in herbcraft and poison, and is regarded as treacherous, while maintaining a sweet and pious persona. She is fair, blue-eyed and blonde.

Sarella Sand. Daughter of a trader from the Summer Isles. She is referred to as playing a "game" in Oldtown.

Elia Sand, called 'Lady Lance'. The oldest daughter of Oberyn's paramour Ellaria Sand and granddaughter of Lord Harmen Uller. She appears to have been named after Princess Elia. She's fond of horses and jousting.

Obella Sand. Daughter of Ellaria Sand and granddaughter of Lord Harmen Uller.

Dorea Sand. Daughter of Ellaria Sand and granddaughter of Lord Harmen Uller.

Loreza Sand. Daughter of Ellaria Sand and granddaughter of Lord Harmen Uller.

[Iandyan]

Well I must of been thinking of Sarella. Maybe we will see some of her if we get a glimpse of Samwell in the next book.

[Sirken]

some Sarella theories you say,

It is widely believed that Sarella Sand is in disguise in Oldtown as the novice Alleras, studying for a maester's chain. The name Alleras is Sarella backwards, and Alleras ("the Sphinx") bears a resemblance to Oberyn Martell. Furthermore, disguising herself as a man to learn the secrets of the maesters would be in keeping with what is known of Sarella's character.

Supporting Evidence


Alleras is Sarella spelled backwards.

Both claim to have a Summer Island trader for a mother.

Both claim to have a Dornishman for a father.

Alleras has similar features to Oberyn Martell (black hair in a widow's peak, black eyes).

Alleras says:"I am no lord's son."

It is stated that Sarella loves Oldtown.

Sarella has a reputation for insatiable curiosity and "pushing in where she [didn’t] belong".

Alleras' remarkable skill with a bow is consistent the knowledge that Oberyn trained all of his daughters with weapons.

When Doran Martell rounds up the Sand Snakes to keep them from pursuing revenge for their father, Sarella is already out of Doran's sphere of influence and he does not send men to pursue her.

Samwell Tarly was told by Maester Aemon that "The Sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler."

Alleras is described as a slim, slight, comely youth with slim arms and shoulders, which is how a woman disguised as a young man would appear.

[Sirken]

speaking of theories, heres the best thread ive seen supporting that Sandor is still alive on the quiet isle

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/60808-the-gravedigging-hound-complete-analysis/?p=2907537#entry2907537

[Iandyan]

speaking of theories, heres the best thread ive seen supporting that Sandor is still alive on the quiet isle

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/60808-the-gravedigging-hound-complete-analysis/?p=2907537#entry2907537

It definitely seems like it if you read that section looking for the clues.

The priest lies about as well as a cheating husband confronted by an angry wife.

The Hound? Why do you ask? Don't be ridiculous! Oh yeah I remember..he's dead. Tried to help him though. I know I said I had awesome healing skills but...just didn't work out that time. Don't mind that cripple digging graves.

Also, I'm definitely buying that Alleras is Sarella but eager to see the significance (if any) that comes from her interactions with Sam while studying. I'm assuming that she signed up for the lessons since her father had forged a couple links of a chain there.

[Lojik]

Hmmm hope this isn't out of place, but for anyone who plays warband (maybe some more will now =D) some people just released a Clash of Kings mod. Looks pretty sweet...
http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/22/21191/thumb_620x2000/Iron_Throne.jpg
Iron Throne
http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/22/21191/thumb_620x2000/Tower_of_Joy.jpg
Tower of Joy
http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/22/21191/thumb_620x2000/Bilwit_7.jpg
http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/22/21191/thumb_620x2000/Bilwit_6.jpg
Starks v. Lannisters

[Mandalore93]

Sometimes I wonder if Martin ever sets up deliberate trolls because he knows his fandom is suicide level immersed with their tinfoil conspiracies...
But ya. Sarella is clearly Alleras.

[Sirken]

Sometimes I wonder if Martin ever sets up deliberate trolls because he knows his fandom is suicide level immersed with their tinfoil conspiracies...

oh u mean like robb whole story? or Oberyn? or baby Aegons head being smashed in? or Dany getting to westeros? got fucking trolled by GRRM on all of those.

[Mandalore93]

Def. a series that requires multiple reads imo.

[Dalven]

Def. a series that requires multiple reads imo.

This. Going through the series knowing what is to come makes a ton of details more pertinent.

Also

The Hound? Why do you ask? Don't be ridiculous! Oh yeah I remember..he's dead. Tried to help him though. I know I said I had awesome healing skills but...just didn't work out that time. Don't mind that cripple digging graves.

Sandor lives for sure. Whether or not he'll at some point go smash his undead brother in the face is the question.

[Sirken]

Sandor lives for sure. Whether or not he'll at some point go smash his undead brother in the face is the question.

so.. gregors head is shipped to dorne, which means he cant technically smash his undead brother in his face.

but that being said you touched on a pretty awesome theory .. we've never seen Robb Starks head, we only know that Joffrey requests it be sent to Kings Landing after the red wedding and before the purple wedding.

sooo.. we have Ser Robert Strong. if u google a german to english translator, you can see that Stark translates to Strong. and we havent seen Robb Starks head since the red wedding... and we havent ever seen Robert Strongs face/head

i think you can see where im going with this. what do u think? Robert Strong = undead Gregor with Robbs head crudely stitched on for a head

[Sidelle]

..what do u think? Robert Strong = undead Gregor with Robbs head crudely stitched on for a head
I just had the most absurd image pop into my head. Gregor's huge body + Robb's tiny head might just look like this (ignore the L.L. Bean outfit, of course):

http://bluesuit12.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/shrunken-head.jpeg

[Dalven]

so.. gregors head is shipped to dorne, which means he cant technically smash his undead brother in his face.

but that being said you touched on a pretty awesome theory .. we've never seen Robb Starks head, we only know that Joffrey requests it be sent to Kings Landing after the red wedding and before the purple wedding.

sooo.. we have Ser Robert Strong. if u google a german to english translator, you can see that Stark translates to Strong. and we havent seen Robb Starks head since the red wedding... and we havent ever seen Robert Strongs face/head

i think you can see where im going with this. what do u think? Robert Strong = undead Gregor with Robbs head crudely stitched on for a head

Awesome, I've not heard that one before. Nice hints in the name as well.

I have always presumed that the large head sent to Dorne belonged to one of the dwarfs Cersei had killed. In particular I can vaguely remember thinking it was the "sparrow" wandering dwarf septon's head for some reason. I also think Cersei makes a comment about not giving a shit who's head was sent - something about not knowing who a skull belongs to once its been cleaned.

Robb's missing head reminds me of another minor point - where are Ned Stark's bones? Greywater Watch? Does it even matter?

[Dalven]

I just had the most absurd image pop into my head. Gregor's huge body + Robb's tiny head might just look like this (ignore the L.L. Bean outfit, of course):

http://bluesuit12.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/shrunken-head.jpeg

Lol, that thing gave me nightmares when I was a kid.

[uygi]

Jesus I'm late to this party. Too lazy to read it all now...

Seems to me that Maester Aemon hit the nail on the head when he indicated, on his deathbed, that Daenerys was Azor Azhai reborn. Makes sense, Targaryen, Dragons, and a clear "paladin" mentality".

Martin has made it clear that he'll fuck anybody. That was the entire point of killing Ned in the first place, to make it clear that anybody can die at any time. I think Jon Snow's human body will die, and he'll live on as Ghost. Robb did legitimize Jon Snow, but who's left that knows and/or can prove that? If Jon Snow really is Azor Azhai then I agree that Melisandre will have to save him and figure it out (not necessarily in that order... probably figure it out whilst saving him)- that or his being Azor Azhai just keeps him from dying... I don't see any reason that Azor Azhai reborn needs to be a Targaryen.

I've not really discussed this with people, never heard the Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Snow but that makes a lot of sense. I guess I just didn't really care that much, I read Dance with Dragons right away when it came out and before that it'd been 4.5 years since I last read any of the others. Unlike all these preppy new kids, I started reading the series in like 2000!

[Sirken]

I don't see any reason that Azor Azhai reborn needs to be a Targaryen.
more on this. A LOT of people think that Azor Azai must be Targaryen because they are assuming that Azor Azai and "The Prince that was Promised" is the same person. maybe thats true, and maybe not. Melisandre is the only one that has used both terms, and im not sure if she was using them interchangeably or as separate people. Maester Aemon does say in book for that the red star + the return of dragons = Dany is the Prince that was Promised, but Aemon has never used the term Azor Azai. Maester Aemon’s notion is supported by the woods witch, who prophesied that the prince that was promised would be born from the line of Prince Aerys and Princess Rhaella. When Aegon V heard the prophecy he arranged the marriage between the two, and many people believed that Rhaegar would be the prince that was promised, although that didnt work out. However, Daenerys Targaryen is also of that same line, their daughter. Maester Aemon goes on to explain why the Prince that was promised could be a female:
No one ever looked for a girl ... It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar I thought … the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King’s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet.

personally i think they will be separate people, and i expect it to be Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow. with Dany being Azor Azai and Jon Snow being the Prince that was Promised. i expect Dany to give her life in some fashion that will forever save mankind from the threat of the Whitewalkers, and Jon Snow as the prince that was promised will be declared the rightful king of Westeros, and will unite the North and the South. i know, i know.. what about Aegon? Aegon will be killed, or more likely discovered to be an imposter as has happened a few times in English history (GRRM loves to borrow from english history).

[Sirken]

I have always presumed that the large head sent to Dorne belonged to one of the dwarfs Cersei had killed. In particular I can vaguely remember thinking it was the "sparrow" wandering dwarf septon's head for some reason. I also think Cersei makes a comment about not giving a shit who's head was sent - something about not knowing who a skull belongs to once its been cleaned.

Robb's missing head reminds me of another minor point - where are Ned Stark's bones? Greywater Watch? Does it even matter?

i think they wanted you to think that for shock value when its robb. Bran has this dream, There were shadows all around them. One Shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them loomed a Giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood. i believe the third person is robert strong before he has robbs head. just a crackpot theory, could easily be wrong, but i like to think im right.

as far as neds bones. i have a feeling they're at Greywater Watch with Howland Reed. their last known whereabouts was near Moat Cailin, which we were told was being harassed by crannogmen. So im thinking that they ended up at Greywater Watch, which would be seriously awesome because that means his bones are safe and well looked after at least by his old friend Howland Reed. we know that they haven't reached Barrowton yet according to Lady Barbrey Dustin, so they can't have gone much farther than Moat Cailin. and if they were seen at Moat Cailin a while ago, they SHOULD have reached Barrowton, so it stands to reason that Neds bones are at Greywater Watch with Howland Reed.

and i NEED this, because i NEED to see Howland Reed. hes the last person alive from the incident at the Tower of Joy. and the last person that can say for sure if R+L=J.

[Sirken]

I've not really discussed this with people, never heard the Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Snow but that makes a lot of sense. I guess I just didn't really care that much, I read Dance with Dragons right away when it came out and before that it'd been 4.5 years since I last read any of the others. Unlike all these preppy new kids, I started reading the series in like 2000!

remember Neds dream from book 1? http://youtu.be/v9Mp8MzAjAY

thats probably the single biggest piece of evidence for R+L=J imo

[Funkutron5000]

Quad post. You need to settle down, Sirks. We're all excited!

Neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrddddddddd dddddddddssssssssssssssssss.

[Red_Psyphon]

Just got into Game of thrones last week, already caught up...so awesome and so sad. I love it!

[deezy]

Greetings, I just spent the last 3 weeks reading this thread from work.
personally i think they will be separate people, and i expect it to be Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow. with Dany being Azor Azai and Jon Snow being the Prince that was Promised. i expect Dany to give her life in some fashion that will forever save mankind from the threat of the Whitewalkers, and Jon Snow as the prince that was promised will be declared the rightful king of Westeros, and will unite the North and the South. i know, i know.. what about Aegon? Aegon will be killed, or more likely discovered to be an imposter as has happened a few times in English history (GRRM loves to borrow from english history).
I think it might be the other way around considering Aemon explicitly names Daenerys as the prince that was promised. While Melisandre saw Snow while looking in the fire after she asked for a glimpse of Azor Ahai.

[Dalven]

Lol Sirken, let me see if I can keep up with that flurry.

i think they wanted you to think that for shock value when its robb. Bran has this dream, There were shadows all around them. One Shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them loomed a Giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood. i believe the third person is robert strong before he has robbs head. just a crackpot theory, could easily be wrong, but i like to think im right.

as far as neds bones. i have a feeling they're at Greywater Watch with Howland Reed. their last known whereabouts was near Moat Cailin, which we were told was being harassed by crannogmen. So im thinking that they ended up at Greywater Watch, which would be seriously awesome because that means his bones are safe and well looked after at least by his old friend Howland Reed. we know that they haven't reached Barrowton yet according to Lady Barbrey Dustin, so they can't have gone much farther than Moat Cailin. and if they were seen at Moat Cailin a while ago, they SHOULD have reached Barrowton, so it stands to reason that Neds bones are at Greywater Watch with Howland Reed.

and i NEED this, because i NEED to see Howland Reed. hes the last person alive from the incident at the Tower of Joy. and the last person that can say for sure if R+L=J.

That passage you quoted is an interesting one for a lot of reasons - one must be the Hound, he has had an impact on both the Stark girls' life. A figure armoured like the sun leads me to think of Jaime and his golden armour but he hasn't really had a direct impact on either of them besides sending Brienne out to wander pointlessly in the riverlands. Perhaps his forthcoming confrontation with Stoneheart will shed light on this. Again I'm inclined to agree that the third figure is the Mountain but he hasn't had anything to do with Sansa although Arya was forced to witness some of his horrors. I hope your theory pans out tho, there must be a reason Robert Strong didn't lift his helm.

Howland Reed holds the key to R+L=J for sure but which PoV will get to him first? No one is near him at the minute so I reckon it'll be book seven before we see him.

All Sirken's Azor Ahai/PtwP stuff

You make a lot of good points. This knot gets more interesting as Dany is clearly being set up to be the obvious candidate but as has been shown people have misinterpreted that prophecy before. Melisandre's vision even specifically mentions Jon in ADWD during her POV chapter when she thinks of Azor Ahai. Jon is now in a position where he can be reborn and we can't really predict how this is going to happen at the moment, or what he is going to be like when he comes back. What do we know about the Prince that was Promised prophecy? I can't recall getting even a fable version like we got from Salladhor San about AA. Aegon is definitely a fake - I'm fond of the theory that he is Illyrio's son by his Blackfyre wife, but regardless of the truth of that nuance I'm certain he's a Blackfyre. Too much of the Blackfyre rebellion has been talked about in the Dunk and Egg novellas for it not to have an impact on the main story (btw has anyone read the new short story yet? Have got a copy of Dangerous Women but haven't read it yet - apparently a history of the first Dance of Dragons.)

Back on point - does anyone in Westeros know about Azor Ahai? Does Dany? Did Aemon? Although I think Moqorro is about to enlighten her - does this validate her as AA or are Red Priests just dumb all round?

Greetings, I just spent the last 3 weeks reading this thread from work.

I think it might be the other way around considering Aemon explicitly names Daenerys as the prince that was promised. While Melisandre saw Snow while looking in the fire after she asked for a glimpse of Azor Ahai.

Welcome to the deep end pal.

[Funkutron5000]

For those of you interested in GoT/ Olympics crossovers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b9Ji7DvsjU

Charles Dance owns. Gonna miss Tywin.

[Dalven]

For those of you interested in GoT/ Olympics crossovers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b9Ji7DvsjU

Charles Dance owns. Gonna miss Tywin.

Guy is one of the best castings in the series for sure. While I was disappointed when he didn't have massive blond lamb chops like he did in the book I can probably take him a bit more seriously without.

[Sidelle]

according to some bullshit i was reading, far and away Dany the most likely candidate for Azor Ahai, Dany fits all the requirements. She awoke the dragons out of her petrified stone eggs, on the very night she spotted the comet for the first time. (GoT, pg. 804). That night, there was smoke from the funeral pyre and salt from Dany’s tears. And she was ‘reborn’ in the sense that she emerged from the fire a stronger person--a leader whom the Dothraki would follow.

But how does Dany’s story match up with Salladhor’s? Well, one suggestion has been that her dragons are actually Lightbringer, because they can produce fire. This makes a great amount of sense. Like Azor Ahai, Dany tried three times to make her weapon--once while putting them on a brazier (GoT, pg. 593), once while coming out of her fevered nightmares (GoT, pg. 753-754), and finally succeeding on the third try at Drogo’s pyre. Also, like Azor Ahai, Dany sacrificed her spouse to make her weapon, and drew the weapon out of a fire.

Other people merely think that Lightbringer is still a sword, and perhaps Dany will find it elsewhere, maybne in Asshai or far east. But the fact remains that, of all the candidates, Dany is the only one who has woken dragons out of stone. Unless another character is going to accomplish the same thing, Dany seems like a safe bet to be Azor Ahai reborn.

There is a theory that the real sword Lightbringer has been in Westeros the whole time, and it is the sword Dawn, the hereditary greatsword of House Dayne. The sword was made from the metal of a fallen meteorite. (CoK, pg. 332). Eddard carried Dawn back to Starfall after Arthur Dayne’s death (GoT, pg. 65). Perhaps Dany or another character will find the true Lightbringer there?

There is only one thing wrong with this theory. Dawn is described as being ‘pale as milkglass’ (GoT, pg. 425), while Lightbringer is known as the Red Sword of Heroes. However, besides this slight difference in color, there is no evidence against Dawn being Lightbringer



and lastly, no where is it written that "Azor Azai" and the "Prince that was Promised" are the same person. i personally have issues with Dany as AA. Melisandre sees a black haired man. Maybe its Stannis.. but i think its more likely Jon, and i think melisandre is starting to think this too. Jon is in ghost, Melisandre is gonna hit him with that epic click stick and he'll get a 96% rezz np. just like thoros and beric, and similar to the prologue.

at the end of the day, Dany will either die to save all of people from the white walkers (ie: think jesus dying for all the sins), or Dany will hook up with Jon, and together, their story is indeed what makes the song of ice and fire
I'm starting to wonder if Gendry will turn out to be Azor Ahai and Dany will be his Nissa Nissa. I wasn't too sure about your Dany/sacrifice theory, Sirken, but some of the clues might just fit. I spent some time today reading both the Lightbringer Prophecy and the chapter in ACoK with Dany in the House of the Undying Ones. Here are a few simple observations:

Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer himself. Gendry is a skilled blacksmith. He makes the steel "sing". (Btw, couldn't the sound Lightbringer would make during forging be what's behind the title: A Song of Ice and Fire? Maybe I'm reaching a little, will have to think more about this..) But doesn't it seem likely that when AA comes again he would need to have smithing skill?

One of the prophesies from the Undying Ones refers to "A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a red sword in his hand." Gendry has blue eyes. Jon Snow's are grey.

I honestly can't remember if anyone else has talked about the Gendry theory in this thread...

I had more to post about Aegon and Dany but I gotta run for now. Let me know if you wanna discuss anything else from the House of the Undying Ones later.

[Sidelle]

sidelle where's ur titty pics u promised u fucking BITCH
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6728674560/h78683991/

[Sidelle]

Ok, back on the appropriate subject...

Greetings, I just spent the last 3 weeks reading this thread from work.

I think it might be the other way around considering Aemon explicitly names Daenerys as the prince that was promised. While Melisandre saw Snow while looking in the fire after she asked for a glimpse of Azor Ahai.
Hi there and welcome to the party. :D

[Sidelle]

About Aegon. I just have this feeling that he's legit and that would make him the prince that was promised. When Dany was in the House of the Undying she saw a scene with Rhaegar and his wife, right after Aegon was born. He definitely proclaims his newborn son the prince that was promised.

I realize that anything Dany is supposed to see in the House is not exactly a guarantee. She was told (paraphrasing here) that she would see visions of things that have already happened, will happen in the future, and would never happen - but the scene with Rhaegar and his family (to me) is just a given.

As for Melisadre thinking maybe Jon is possibly Azor Ahai: I dunno. She seems like too much of a charlatan to me, even if she does get some of her predictions right. Plus, I don't think it's Jon because of the subtle clues; like him having the wrong eye color, for one.

I've been kind of spot-reading so I'm skipping around a lot when my intention was to read the books again start to finish. I'm sure I'll be back with more as I go.

[Sidelle]

About Aegon. I just have this feeling that he's legit and that would make him the prince that was promised. When Dany was in the House of the Undying she saw a scene with Rhaegar and his wife, right after Aegon was born. He definitely proclaims his newborn son the prince that was promised.

I realize that anything Dany is supposed to see in the House is not exactly a guarantee. She was told (paraphrasing here) that she would see visions of things that have already happened, will happen in the future, and would never happen - but the scene with Rhaegar and his family (to me) is just a given.

As for Melisadre thinking maybe Jon is possibly Azor Ahai: I dunno. She seems like too much of a charlatan to me, even if she does get some of her predictions right. Plus, I don't think it's Jon because of the subtle clues; like him having the wrong eye color, for one.

I've been kind of spot-reading so I'm skipping around a lot when my intention was to read the books again start to finish. I'm sure I'll be back with more as I go.

I forgot to mention Maester Aemon saying Dany is the PtwP. At best, it just seemed like he was speculating and wasn't fully coherant (?) while he was on his death bed. That's just my take on it.

[Sidelle]

Guy is one of the best castings in the series for sure. While I was disappointed when he didn't have massive blond lamb chops like he did in the book I can probably take him a bit more seriously without.

/wave :D

I'm gonna be reading Dangerous Women soon. Just haven't gotten around to it yet with all of my other catch-up reading. I haven't even read Dunk and Egg yet.

P.S. Really glad Tywin doesn't have those ugly chops in the show. Lol

[Sidelle]

I'm starting to wonder if Gendry will turn out to be Azor Ahai and Dany will be his Nissa Nissa. I wasn't too sure about your Dany/sacrifice theory, Sirken, but some of the clues might just fit. I spent some time today reading both the Lightbringer Prophecy and the chapter in ACoK with Dany in the House of the Undying Ones. Here are a few simple observations:

Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer himself. Gendry is a skilled blacksmith. He makes the steel "sing". (Btw, couldn't the sound Lightbringer would make during forging be what's behind the title: A Song of Ice and Fire? Maybe I'm reaching a little, will have to think more about this..) But doesn't it seem likely that when AA comes again he would need to have smithing skill?

One of the prophesies from the Undying Ones refers to "A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a red sword in his hand." Gendry has blue eyes. Jon Snow's are grey.

I honestly can't remember if anyone else has talked about the Gendry theory in this thread...

I had more to post about Aegon and Dany but I gotta run for now. Let me know if you wanna discuss anything else from the House of the Undying Ones later.

I just realized I am assuming too much about Lightbringer here. Does it still exist somewhere? I need to read more. My thoughts on Gendry might make more sense if he actually had to forge the sword. Lol. Taking off tinfoil hat for now. Bedtime. It's been fun.

[Sirken]

Lol Sirken, let me see if I can keep up with that flurry.
That passage you quoted is an interesting one for a lot of reasons - one must be the Hound, he has had an impact on both the Stark girls' life. A figure armoured like the sun leads me to think of Jaime and his golden armour
or maybe a Martell? ;)

Howland Reed holds the key to R+L=J for sure but which PoV will get to him first? No one is near him at the minute so I reckon it'll be book seven before we see him.
could give a PoV chapter to him? aside from that i could see davos, Asha, or Theon all having a chance to hit Greywater Watch as they are in the general vicinity.

You make a lot of good points. This knot gets more interesting as Dany is clearly being set up to be the obvious candidate but as has been shown people have misinterpreted that prophecy before. Melisandre's vision even specifically mentions Jon in ADWD during her POV chapter when she thinks of Azor Ahai. Jon is now in a position where he can be reborn and we can't really predict how this is going to happen at the moment, or what he is going to be like when he comes back. What do we know about the Prince that was Promised prophecy? I can't recall getting even a fable version like we got from Salladhor San about AA. Aegon is definitely a fake - I'm fond of the theory that he is Illyrio's son by his Blackfyre wife, but regardless of the truth of that nuance I'm certain he's a Blackfyre. Too much of the Blackfyre rebellion has been talked about in the Dunk and Egg novellas for it not to have an impact on the main story (btw has anyone read the new short story yet? Have got a copy of Dangerous Women but haven't read it yet - apparently a history of the first Dance of Dragons.) Back on point - does anyone in Westeros know about Azor Ahai? Does Dany? Did Aemon? Although I think Moqorro is about to enlighten her - does this validate her as AA or are Red Priests just dumb all round?
Dany=PTWP & Jon=AA ignore anything i said that contradicts that.

as far as PTWP infos, he song of ice and fire is said to be the prince that was promised's but the content remains unknown. the song of ice and fire is a subject of a prophecy and is eponymous for the A Song of Ice and Fire series.

At the House of the Undying, Daenerys Targaryen sees a man (Rhaegar Targaryen) and overhears him talking to a woman (Elia Martell) nursing a baby. "Aegon… What better name for a king… He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire"; When Rhaegar's eyes meet Daenerys's, he says either to her or Elia, "There must be one more… The dragon has three heads", and he picks up a silver harp and begins to play.

However, neither Daenerys nor Ser Jorah Mormont know what the song of ice and fire means. It is implied that there is a connection between the song, the promise, and Daenerys herself. This is established more clearly when Maester Aemon identifies Daenerys as the "prince" that was promised.

The phrase "ice and fire" is also mentioned in the Reeds' oath of loyalty to Bran Stark. The phrase "ice and fire" appears two more times in the books as an example of opposites. However, the song and the promise are never mentioned again, and the song itself remains a mystery.

personally i think the two horns (the dragon horn (fire) that Vic has, and the northern horn (ice) sam has) will play the song of ice and fire. and i think it will involve Dany and Jon, as well as whitewalkers and dragons.

as far as melisandre, i think shes the least capable red priest we've encountered, with Thoros being better than her, and Moqurro being #2 of the order, should be better than Thoros

and yes some people in westeros do know of AA, but not enough. it feels limited to Maesters, historians, and nerds like Sam that are balls deep in the old books. ;)

[Sirken]

One of the prophesies from the Undying Ones refers to "A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a red sword in his hand." Gendry has blue eyes. Jon Snow's are grey.

I honestly can't remember if anyone else has talked about the Gendry theory in this thread...

ill have more for u later, but i wanted to hit on this, like his brothers, Robert and Renly, Stannis is a large man. hes tall, broad shouldered and sinewy. While he is not described as being particularly unattractive, he is also not considered as handsome as Renly or Robert was in his youth. Stannis has dark blue eyes. His head has only a fringe of black hair "like the shadow of a crown," and a close-cropped beard across his large jaw. His face has a tightness to it like cured leather, and he has hollow cheeks. He has thin, pale lips.

The red sword would seem to be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and the blue-eyed king without a shadow would then be Stannis Baratheon whose shadow has been so recently harnessed by Melisandre's sorcery to murder Renly Baratheon and Ser Cortnay Penrose. no i dont think stannis is AA, i just think thats who she saw in that vision.

edit- happy 5000th post

[Sirken]

I'm starting to wonder if Gendry will turn out to be Azor Ahai and Dany will be his Nissa Nissa. I wasn't too sure about your Dany/sacrifice theory, Sirken, but some of the clues might just fit. I spent some time today reading both the Lightbringer Prophecy and the chapter in ACoK with Dany in the House of the Undying Ones. Here are a few simple observations:

Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer himself. Gendry is a skilled blacksmith. He makes the steel "sing". But doesn't it seem likely that when AA comes again he would need to have smithing skill?

I honestly can't remember if anyone else has talked about the Gendry theory in this thread...

i personally think Gendry will play a role in reconstructing Ice, as it was his blacksmith master that broke it down into Oathkeeper and WidowsWail (or whatever joffreys sword was named. remember its very very rare to find a blacksmith that can rework with valaryian steel

i also think Gendry will be the lord of house baratheon, and that Gendry and Arya will hook up, FINALLY uniting the Baratheons and the Starks (third time the charm)

[Sirken]

I just realized I am assuming too much about Lightbringer here. Does it still exist somewhere? I need to read more. My thoughts on Gendry might make more sense if he actually had to forge the sword. Lol. Taking off tinfoil hat for now. Bedtime. It's been fun.

ohh Lightbringer. theres a lot of theories on this, including that Lightbringer is actually the Nights Watch because of their oath Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.Lightbringer is supposed to give off heat; the Night's Watch burns against the cold. It is the "light that brings the dawn." The original defeat of the Others is called the Battle for the Dawn. Could this mean that Lightbringer has been staring us in the face practically the entire time? The Azor Ahai legend and the origin of the Night's Watch are, we're led to believe, roughly contemporary. Azor Ahai's legend has to do with defeating the Others, which is also the Night's Watch's mission. As such, the AA legend and the Night's Watch are inexorably linked. The "wielder of Lightbringer" might simply mean the person who commands the Night's Watch. For all we know, AA might himself have been the founding Lord Commander. It also occurred to me that AA's sacrifice of Nissa Nissa might somehow tie into the Night's Watch promise to not take wives. We understand that promise to simply be putting duty before familial loyalty, but what if there's more to it? If AA did sacrifice Nissa Nissa to "forge" Lightbringer, and the Night's Watch is itself Lightbringer, then the rule against taking wives literally goes back to the first days of the Watch and has a deep symbolic meaning beyond just utility.

and then you have the dragon horn, "... a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword." Euron Crow's Eye supposedly got his dragon horn from the flames of Valyria in the remnants of the Doom. "To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered." (whether AA did this or not) that it requires human sacrifice, and that no animal/creature may be replaced. Remember that the blower of Euron's Valyrian Horn must die.

then u have Dawn. Dawn is the ancestral greatsword of House Dayne, who bestow the title Sword of the Morning on the sword's bearer. It is said to be made from metal forged from the heart of a fallen star. Its blade is as pale as milkglass. The name of the Daynes' castle, Starfall, and their arms, featuring a white sword and falling star, both reference Dawn. The blade is said to be just as sharp as Valyrian steel but where that is dark, the blade of Dawn is milky white. The last known user of the sword was Ser Arthur Dayne, who died at the Tower of Joy. After the fight, Eddard Stark rode to Starfall to deliver Dawn to Arthur's sister Ashara Dayne. Dawn is said to be "alive with lite". Dawn is mentioned in every book, yet we've never seen it. Dawn is only given to those worthy enough to wield it, and is not automatically passed down from one generation to the next. And when you mix all that together, i think it means Dawn is important, and has a role. could that role be Lightbringer, i dont know, but i think we cant rule out the possibility. we KNOW stannis' sword is fake, and simply a glamor she put on the sword similar to thoros sword at the iron isle invasion, and then Aemon points out stannis' sword was not hot, and lightbringer radiates heat. Dawn is not burning out either, but maybe it could when AA wields it, and the Daynes are the custodians of lightbringer.

if Lightbringer is an actual sword, i think it will be Dawn (fun fact, if Jon Snow is AA, and if LB=Dawn, then it means Lightbringer was right there when AA was born if R+L=J)

if Lightbringer is not an actual sword, i think it is a metaphor for the nightswatch, and i think that the lord commander could be AA. we also know that the battle for the dawn was against the others, that common foe of the nights watch.

[Mandalore93]

Ok, so in chapter twenty. An Eddard point of view, take note of the description that is used when he sees Varys. Seems extremely familiar to how the members of the house of undying are described.

[Sirken]

book 1 chapter 20 (Eddard), only says this about Varys - the councilor Ned liked least, the eunuch Varys, accosted him the moment he entered. "Lord Stark, i was grievous sad to hear about your troubles on the Kingsroad. We have all been visiting the sept to light candles for Prince Joffrey. I pray for his recovery." His hand left powder stains on Ned's sleeve, and he smelled as foul and sweet as flowers on a grave.

moreover, Varys is never described as having the blue lips that serves as the trade mark sign for the members of the house of the undying (they get this from drinking the shade of the evening). The only people we're told have been drinking it are the Warlocks, Pyat Pree, Daenerys Targaryen (only once), Euron Greyjoy, Victarion Greyjoy (tries a small swallow and spits it out immediately).

and then, Varys despises magic, but especially dark magic. heres his history Though nothing that Varys says can be completely trusted, he claims to have been born a slave in Lys that was sold and apprenticed to a traveling folly, a troupe of mummers who worked the Free Cities, Oldtown, and occasionally King's Landing, by means of a fat little cog owned by the troupe's master. During their stay in Myr, a man offered a large sum of money for Varys, an offer his master found too tempting to refuse. The man gave Varys a potion that made him powerless to move or speak, but did nothing to dull his senses as his manhood was cut off at the stem, then burnt in a brazier in a Blood Magic ritual. Varys claims to have held a hatred for all things magical ever since.

With the ritual complete, the man had no further use for Varys and tossed him out on the streets. Varys asked the man what he should do, to which the sorcerer replied he supposed that he should die. Varys to spite him vowed to live.

By that time the mummers had sailed and Varys was left alone. He resorted to begging, prostitution and thievery and soon was as good a thief as any in Myr, eventually becoming recognized as the best thief in the city until a rival forced him out and he fled to Pentos.

In Pentos, Varys befriended a poor sellsword named Illyrio Mopatis and they started a business where Varys would steal objects from lesser thieves and Illyrio would get the objects back for their original owners for a small fee. Soon, every man and woman in Pentos who ever had valuables stolen from them all knew who to ask to get their valuables back. In addition, the thieves in Pentos soon began to seek Illyrio and Varys out, half to try (and failing) to kill them, the other half to sell them the objects they stole in order to prevent Varys from stealing them back. Varys and Illyrio grew very rich.

Varys came to the realization that information was much more valuable than gold and gems and began training his spy network, then known as "little mice", to acquire the information, letters, ledgers and charts of the wealthy and powerful. The "mice" were orphans purchased by Varys; he chose those that were small, quick, and quiet, and taught them to read and write, as well as the skills required for sneak thievery such as climbing walls and slipping down chimneys, so that they might copy the information Varys desired without disturbing or alarming their targets.

These secrets increased Varys and Illyrio's wealth tenfold, and in time Varys became so infamous that word of his talents reached the ears of King Aerys across the Narrow Sea, who in his growing paranoia no longer trusted his son, his wife, or his Hand.

and then we also know Varys likes disguises, Varys employs the use of various disguises to go about unnoticed. Upon seeing one of the disguises Tyrion remarks, "A different look, a different smell, a different way of walking ... most men would be deceived".
As a stout man in a heavy brown robe in roughspun - in cracked, mud-caked boots smelling of sweat. His face hidden by a cowl, hands drawn up into voluminous sleeves. At first he speaks in a strange low voice. Ned is astonished to realize it is Lord Varys. Ned notices his usual cloying tones are gone and his voice is a thin and sharp as a whip.

As a begging brother – in filthy patched robes, bare feet crusty with dirt, a bowl hung about his neck on a leather thong where a septon would have worn a crystal. The smell of him would have gagged a rat. He has a mouth full of rotted teeth.

As a woman – plump, soft, matronly, with a round pin moon of a face and heavy dark curls. For one horrid moment Tyrion thinks its Lollys.

As a dungeon turnkey named Rugen


Personally i dont think Varys is a warlock, nor do i think hes a member of the house of the undying. he lacks the blue lips / Shade of the evening connection.

[Mandalore93]

He could very well have a glamor on himself. And what better way to disguise himself with the story of his hatred.

Got to say, now that I'm re-reading (listening) I'm like super intensely focused on the smallest of details with my tinfoil hat on hardcore mode.

[Sidelle]

ill have more for u later, but i wanted to hit on this, like his brothers, Robert and Renly, Stannis is a large man. hes tall, broad shouldered and sinewy. While he is not described as being particularly unattractive, he is also not considered as handsome as Renly or Robert was in his youth. Stannis has dark blue eyes. His head has only a fringe of black hair "like the shadow of a crown," and a close-cropped beard across his large jaw. His face has a tightness to it like cured leather, and he has hollow cheeks. He has thin, pale lips.

The red sword would seem to be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and the blue-eyed king without a shadow would then be Stannis Baratheon whose shadow has been so recently harnessed by Melisandre's sorcery to murder Renly Baratheon and Ser Cortnay Penrose. no i dont think stannis is AA, i just think thats who she saw in that vision.

edit- happy 5000th post
About the king who casts no shadow. One reason why I'm thinking this might be Gendry: when I think of the meaning of the words "casts no shadow" I am thinking they're referring to a person who doesn't seem important; someone unknown and unexpected who is already hidden in the shadows, and therefore will cast none.

Also, AA will pull the sword from the fire. I just took that to mean he will forge it.

Anyway, I understand my thinking is more literal but metaphors make me go insane. ("Omg what does THAT MEAN!?!?" - followed by a seizure and foaming at the mouth.)

Some of your metaphorical interpretation of the Night's Watch possibly being Lightbringer is very intriguing. I'll be thinking about it and might post more about that later (after the seizure).

Goddamn GRRM. So many theories and possible outcomes, thinking about them all is enough to make a person insane so I have to take little breaks . Lol.

[Sidelle]

Got to say, now that I'm re-reading (listening) I'm like super intensely focused on the smallest of details with my tinfoil hat on hardcore mode.

Oh me too, for sure.. I'm poring over every word, looking for clues. Only take off the hat when it starts to pinch my head. :)

[Dalven]

Lol, my forum questing is too casual to keep up with this. Brace yourselves for a long assed post.

I'm starting to wonder if Gendry will turn out to be Azor Ahai and Dany will be his Nissa Nissa. I wasn't too sure about your Dany/sacrifice theory, Sirken, but some of the clues might just fit. I spent some time today reading both the Lightbringer Prophecy and the chapter in ACoK with Dany in the House of the Undying Ones. Here are a few simple observations:

Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer himself. Gendry is a skilled blacksmith. He makes the steel "sing". (Btw, couldn't the sound Lightbringer would make during forging be what's behind the title: A Song of Ice and Fire? Maybe I'm reaching a little, will have to think more about this..) But doesn't it seem likely that when AA comes again he would need to have smithing skill?

One of the prophesies from the Undying Ones refers to "A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a red sword in his hand." Gendry has blue eyes. Jon Snow's are grey.

I honestly can't remember if anyone else has talked about the Gendry theory in this thread...

I had more to post about Aegon and Dany but I gotta run for now. Let me know if you wanna discuss anything else from the House of the Undying Ones later.

Hey pal! Personally I'm in agreement with Sirken about Gendry - will most likely end up continuing the Baratheon line in some form or another. Also being in with Stoneheart's crew means he'll be keeping some bad ass company at the moment.

With regards to the blue eyed king part of the prophecy I had thought this was a reference to Stannis; the lack of shadows referring to the "shadow babies" he's had out killing Renly and Penrose and the red sword referring to his false Lightbringer. Prophecies from the House of the Undying seem to pan out, on a reread catching the detail about Dany seeing a bloody corpse with a wolf's head was a nice tip to the Red Wedding.

About Aegon. I just have this feeling that he's legit and that would make him the prince that was promised. When Dany was in the House of the Undying she saw a scene with Rhaegar and his wife, right after Aegon was born. He definitely proclaims his newborn son the prince that was promised.

...

As for Melisadre thinking maybe Jon is possibly Azor Ahai: I dunno. She seems like too much of a charlatan to me, even if she does get some of her predictions right. Plus, I don't think it's Jon because of the subtle clues; like him having the wrong eye color, for one.


Fair enough, but like I saide before I'm all in with Aegon being a Blackfyre :) Rhaegar himself was prematurely/wrongly thought to be the PtwP so the Targaryen's have been known to jump the gun with these declarations. The fact that he went with Lyanna perhaps meant that Rhaegar himself later had his doubts and realised the Ice was missing, or was merely seeking the third head due to Elia's sickly state.

As far as Melisandre goes she doesn't think she's a charlaton but as we glean from her PoV she is actually a lot less confident in her interpretations than she lets on but pushes on for the sake of the cause. She doesn't even click that Jon could be AA - she even wonders about the fact that when she tries to call up visions of AA she keeps seeing Jon's face.

I forgot to mention Maester Aemon saying Dany is the PtwP. At best, it just seemed like he was speculating and wasn't fully coherant (?) while he was on his death bed. That's just my take on it.

Aegon has been wrong about this before, but Dany is certainly a better candidate than Rhaegor was.

I just realized I am assuming too much about Lightbringer here. Does it still exist somewhere? I need to read more. My thoughts on Gendry might make more sense if he actually had to forge the sword. Lol. Taking off tinfoil hat for now. Bedtime. It's been fun.

The theory on Dawn is pretty cool and fits in with Salladhor's version of the AA story.

or maybe a Martell? ;)

The thought did cross my mind but I couldn't see how the Martell's have impacted the Stark girls yet. Can still happen tho!


could give a PoV chapter to him? aside from that i could see davos, Asha, or Theon all having a chance to hit Greywater Watch as they are in the general vicinity.

Would certainly have to be the latter half of book 6 - Theon and Asha are up in Winterfell and I think its implied Davos is going to Skagos to try and retrieve Rickon. Of course once that Wall comes down there's gonna be a pretty quick exodus south for a lot of characters lol.


as far as PTWP infos, he song of ice and fire is said to be the prince that was promised's but the content remains unknown. the song of ice and fire is a subject of a prophecy and is eponymous for the A Song of Ice and Fire series.

At the House of the Undying, Daenerys Targaryen sees a man (Rhaegar Targaryen) and overhears him talking to a woman (Elia Martell) nursing a baby. "Aegon… What better name for a king… He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire"; When Rhaegar's eyes meet Daenerys's, he says either to her or Elia, "There must be one more… The dragon has three heads", and he picks up a silver harp and begins to play.

However, neither Daenerys nor Ser Jorah Mormont know what the song of ice and fire means. It is implied that there is a connection between the song, the promise, and Daenerys herself. This is established more clearly when Maester Aemon identifies Daenerys as the "prince" that was promised.

The phrase "ice and fire" is also mentioned in the Reeds' oath of loyalty to Bran Stark. The phrase "ice and fire" appears two more times in the books as an example of opposites. However, the song and the promise are never mentioned again, and the song itself remains a mystery.

personally i think the two horns (the dragon horn (fire) that Vic has, and the northern horn (ice) sam has) will play the song of ice and fire. and i think it will involve Dany and Jon, as well as whitewalkers and dragons.

as far as melisandre, i think shes the least capable red priest we've encountered, with Thoros being better than her, and Moqurro being #2 of the order, should be better than Thoros

and yes some people in westeros do know of AA, but not enough. it feels limited to Maesters, historians, and nerds like Sam that are balls deep in the old books. ;)

Its the constant "Ice and Fire" theme that leads me away from Dany as fulfilling this role, as ultimately it is Jon who fits the Ice and Fire conditions best, as currently this is all we know about the PtwP prophecy. I'd imagine we'll find out a lot more about what the Maesters know when we get more time with Sam in Oldtown. Also, speaking of Maesters, Marwyn must be due to arrive in Meereen sometime soon.

That's as much as I can do just now. Try not to talk too much until tomorrow =/

[Sidelle]

...was merely seeking the third head due to Elia's sickly state...

I don't think she was sick, though. Just had a baby. Is she sickly otherwise? Truly can't remember.

More later. Got some stuff to do.:D

[Sirken]

Its the constant "Ice and Fire" theme that leads me away from Dany as fulfilling this role, as ultimately it is Jon who fits the Ice and Fire conditions best, as currently this is all we know about the PtwP prophecy. I'd imagine we'll find out a lot more about what the Maesters know when we get more time with Sam in Oldtown. Also, speaking of Maesters, Marwyn must be due to arrive in Meereen sometime soon.

That's as much as I can do just now. Try not to talk too much until tomorrow =/

first on the PtwP and AA, note that only Melisandre seems to think that the PtwP is Azor Ahai reborn. No one else has made that claim. Some believe they are the same person (i do not), and Dany is both. Others believe that the Prince That Was Promised is a seperate entity all together. However, finding candidates for this role is harder, because we know nothing about the PtwP other than he will play a prominent role in the fight against the Others. The only other reference comes from a conversation between Melisandre and Maester Aemon:

“Make no mistake, good sers and valiant brothers, the war we’ve come to fight is no petty squabble over lands and honors. Ours is a war for life itself, and should we fail the world dies with us.”

...All of them seemed surprised to hear Maester Aemon murmur, “It is the war for the dawn you speak of, my lady. But where is the prince that was promised?”

“He stands before you,” Melisandre declared, “though you do not have the eyes to see it. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai come again, the warrior of fire.”

that is literally the only time in the books where AA and PtwP are referred to as the same person. Melisandre is clearly not the most accurate red priest, or to be more correct, her skill at interpreting what she sees in her fires leaves me not 100% trusting of her (even if she truly believes what shes saying, because again of the 3 red priests we've come toknow, its clear she is the least skilled).


speaking of Maesters, Marwyn must be due to arrive in Meereen sometime soon. these damned maesters. they have the ice horn, they have their candles, they have Marwyn (who is going to A) get captured by Victarion, or B) show up in Mereen right as Vic is sacking the town.), they have Alleras (whom is very possibly Sarella Sand in disguise), and we know Jaqan H'gar is also hiding with the maesters. and i have no idea what they are actually up to

[Sirken]

I don't think she was sick, though. Just had a baby. Is she sickly otherwise? Truly can't remember.

More later. Got some stuff to do.:D

Elia was always referred to as fragile and frail. She was a good and gracious based on what Mormont tells Dany, but frail due to her delicate health, and it's noted she had a very sharp wit.

but after Aegon was born she was to fragile to give him more children.. and you see thats a pretty big problem for Rhaegar because he was trying to bring the PtwP prophecy to fruition and was obsessed over this and that "the dragon must have 3 heads"

a lot of folks believe thats why Rhaegar gave the rose to Lyanna at the tourny of HH, and also why he was willing to run off with Lyanna.

[Sirken]

sooo, here's a pretty good breakdown of the trailer for those that havent seen it yet.

Dragons flying over westeros, Theon walking around, Jeyne Poole as Arya, things are happening here bros and sidelles

http://youtu.be/KI09mhO4gak

[Mandalore93]

Back to Varys...idk Sirken. Just the way how the language plays out not only from that chapter but more importantly from chapter 32 (Arya PoV) where the two men in the sewers are talking and Illyrio calls Varys a wizard several times. But more importantly is the conversation where Ned talks to Arya about it. In the conversation he mocks everything she tells him as a fairy tale which all turns out to be true. In fact, if Varys turns out to be non-magical that would make her story the only untrue thing. I just think it's odd how Martin would word those exchanges the way he did since he seems to get erections over that kind of triple cross.

[Sidelle]

sooo, here's a pretty good breakdown of the trailer for those that havent seen it yet.

Dragons flying over westeros, Theon walking around, Jeyne Poole as Arya, things are happening here bros and sidelles

http://youtu.be/KI09mhO4gak

Hmm. Shadow of big-ass dragon over King's Landing. Maybe a dream scene of Daenerys.. or someone else having a nightmare about the dragons returning. I mean, it HAS to be, right?

Really, really looking forward to the Purple Wedding, the fight between the Red Viper & the Mountain, and the battle with the wildlings. I'm also curious about how the show will portray the Sand Snakes (and Dorne in general). Can't have too many badass, scheming women around. :D

In all, I'm drooling. Can't wait!

Ok, back to the books...

[Sirken]

Hmm. Shadow of big-ass dragon over King's Landing. Maybe a dream scene of Daenerys.. or someone else having a nightmare about the dragons returning. I mean, it HAS to be, right?
Really, really looking forward to the Purple Wedding, the fight between the Red Viper & the Mountain, and the battle with the wildlings. I'm also curious about how the show will portray the Sand Snakes (and Dorne in general). Can't have too many badass, scheming women around. :D
In all, I'm drooling. Can't wait!
Ok, back to the books...

im with you on the dream thing, it could be tyrion, i know hes dreamnt about dragons in the books. if theres dragons in KL this season ill just straight up lose my mind. the purple wedding will be amazing. GRRM is writing that episode and if they can pull off the red wedding that well, i have no doubts for the purple wedding being just as good. to be honest im more excited about the red viper than anything else, and im worried that they arent going to make him as loved as hes gonna need to be. as far as all the BS up north, it looks like they are going to accelerate the shit out of that entire timeline.

as far as the sand snakes im pretty sure that they are all going to be merged into one character for the show based on the casting.

[Sirken]

Back to Varys...idk Sirken. Just the way how the language plays out not only from that chapter but more importantly from chapter 32 (Arya PoV) where the two men in the sewers are talking and Illyrio calls Varys a wizard several times. But more importantly is the conversation where Ned talks to Arya about it. In the conversation he mocks everything she tells him as a fairy tale which all turns out to be true. In fact, if Varys turns out to be non-magical that would make her story the only untrue thing. I just think it's odd how Martin would word those exchanges the way he did since he seems to get erections over that kind of triple cross.

im going to reread this chapter just for you :P i really dont think varys has magic, although i wouldnt rule out magical objects as we know him and Illyrio were thieves together on their youths. but im gonna do it

[Sidelle]

Back to Varys...idk Sirken. Just the way how the language plays out not only from that chapter but more importantly from chapter 32 (Arya PoV) where the two men in the sewers are talking and Illyrio calls Varys a wizard several times. But more importantly is the conversation where Ned talks to Arya about it. In the conversation he mocks everything she tells him as a fairy tale which all turns out to be true. In fact, if Varys turns out to be non-magical that would make her story the only untrue thing. I just think it's odd how Martin would word those exchanges the way he did since he seems to get erections over that kind of triple cross.

I can see how you might consider this theory about Varys. I've been rereading the 1st book and when Catelyn arrives in KL (Ned PoV) she mentions to Ned that Varys must have some "dark art" and that he must have a "way of learning things that no man could know". This could be easily explained though if Catelyn knew about all the secrets of the Red Keep; clandestine hideaways and passages all over the place that no one else knows about - all the better to spy with.

But when you consider the conversation between him and Illyrio (overheard by Arya) I thought it sounded more like Illyrio is referring to him as a "wizard" not due to literal magic but because he is the Master of Whisperers - and he is a "true wizard" when it comes to juggling the situation between the high lords and delaying an outbreak of war. Illyrio was basically imploring him to stall more because Khal Drogo was not ready to move forward with the promise he made to help Viserys win the iron throne; he would not want to make a move until after Dany gave birth. The war coming too soon just makes a mess out of all their plotting.

Also, remember that Varys hates sorcery because of what happened to him in his childhood with the sorcerer and how he became a eunuch (I forgot which book this was disclosed in). The only magic he uses is Spider magic. :)

[Mandalore93]

Yes, that's the way that it's supposed to sound like Siddelle. But the fact that it's used initially in a mocking way then further mocked by dumb Lord Stark that makes me double think it.

[Sidelle]

Yes, that's the way that it's supposed to sound like Siddelle. But the fact that it's used initially in a mocking way then further mocked by dumb Lord Stark that makes me double think it.
I believe the reason Ned was so skeptical and mocking is because of how Arya was explaining it. She didn't understand everything she overheard, being the child she still is at this point. The only thing she knew was that her father was in danger so when she blurted out the story it wasn't making sense to Ned so he dismissed it (yes indeed, very dumb. Poor Ned. :()
…that makes me double think it.

Lol I'm always doing this about lots of things. It's what makes this series such a good story and fun to discuss. :)

[Mandalore93]

I'm now well past this point in my listening but I almost want to say there was a direct comparison between dragons and wizards when Ned speaks which gave me pause. Which might very well be an "in general" hint about what will happen in the series in regards to dragons and magic I suppose.

[Sidelle]

The "white walkers" invade. Winter needs a hero.

A Rogue kicks some ass (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=njEpXZLGK7c)

Valar Snowghulis - all snowmen must die.

[Sidelle]

I've been doing some thinking about Arya. In "A Dance With Dragons" we learn she will be entering an apprenticeship with Izembaro to become a Faceless Man.

Anyone have a theory about who she will eventually be killing? I believe it will be someone of importance to the story. Might want to put on your tinfoil hats now...

I think she will eventually be the one who will kill Littlefinger so she can save Sansa. It's just an idea. Might be crazy, but I think a little crazy is ok in this thread. To me it seems obvious that her path will become important somehow most likely by killing someone of importance. I just can't guess who or how with certainty. I just believe she will do anything to bring her family (pack) back together again. Ned did tell her that the lone wolf will die, but the pack will survive.

No matter how petty and immature Sansa and Arya were at one point, they have both grown up fast because of everything that happened with their family. They will need each other.

[Tenlaar]

I remember reading a thread on the Westeros boards about this. I don't remember the passage from the book myself, but apparently the council of duders that handle the contracts for the Faceless Men will not send the assassins after people they knew in their first lives. That said, I think it's very likely that Arya will finish her training and then be all "Fuck ya'll, I'm outie" for one reason or another.

One thing that was brought up though, is that Arya knows Sansa - she doesn't know Alayne Stone. So there is theoretical potential for her to be sent after Alayne Stone, find out it's Sansa in trouble, kill Littlefinger. That could be how and why she ends up leaving the Faceless Men.

[Sidelle]

I remember reading a thread on the Westeros boards about this. I don't remember the passage from the book myself, but apparently the council of duders that handle the contracts for the Faceless Men will not send the assassins after people they knew in their first lives. That said, I think it's very likely that Arya will finish her training and then be all "Fuck ya'll, I'm outie" for one reason or another.

One thing that was brought up though, is that Arya knows Sansa - she doesn't know Alayne Stone. So there is theoretical potential for her to be sent after Alayne Stone, find out it's Sansa in trouble, kill Littlefinger. That could be how and why she ends up leaving the Faceless Men.

Interesting. Gonna try digging up this thread you speak of. I usually try not to read these conspiracy threads anymore because they make my brain hurt. Lol.

But here I go, anyway. :)

[Tenlaar]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/99004-aryas-hit-list-arya-as-an-assassin-and-aryas-next-kill/

[Sirken]

I've been doing some thinking about Arya. In "A Dance With Dragons" we learn she will be entering an apprenticeship with Izembaro to become a Faceless Man.

Anyone have a theory about who she will eventually be killing? I believe it will be someone of importance to the story. Might want to put on your tinfoil hats now...

I think she will eventually be the one who will kill Littlefinger so she can save Sansa. It's just an idea. Might be crazy, but I think a little crazy is ok in this thread. To me it seems obvious that her path will become important somehow most likely by killing someone of importance. I just can't guess who or how with certainty. I just believe she will do anything to bring her family (pack) back together again. Ned did tell her that the lone wolf will die, but the pack will survive.

No matter how petty and immature Sansa and Arya were at one point, they have both grown up fast because of everything that happened with their family. They will need each other.

i have a strong belief that Arya can not become a faceless until she completely lets go of herself as "Arya" and sadly the fact that she's hidden needle away means she has not yet fulfilled that requirement to become a faceless. maybe it wont matter, but maybe she'll just learn some skills and head back to westeros on her own. Arya can go so many different ways. hell, at this point i really wouldnt be shocked if Arya ended up with Dany (and probably Tyrion by then as well). but assuming you're right and she ends up as a faceless, i could see her being assigned to Aegon as he poses problems for quite a few people's happy endings being Rhaegar's oldest son. Should Aegon be an imposter (like has happened a few times in english history dating back to 1066AD), then he wouldn't need to be killed. but honestly i see her leaving that organization and using her skills elsewhere. thats kinda what Arya does, she goes somewhere and learns some shit and then moves on to the next place, and has never really settled down to one spot, i expect that to continue. i wouldn't be shocked if she slew some boltons/freys. i would however be very shocked if Arya did not reunite with her family (Jon Sansa Bran Rickon) at some point.

as far as littlefinger, i have to flat out disagree with you on him being slewn by Arya. the littlefinger/sansa thing is shaping up perfectly as a situation where the apprentice will slay the teacher. Eventually as Sansa keeps learning from Baelish, she will see how hes using her, and she will be his undoing, and hopefully it'll will be the beginning of a stronger Sansa thats willing to do what needs to be done for the good of herself and whats left of her family.

[Mandalore93]

How dare you speak treason of Littlefinger! I do unfortunately think though that Baelish will fall. Thus far he's been set up as this perfect player of the game of THrones and with Martin that will inevitably get him killed.

[Sirken]

How dare you speak treason of Littlefinger! I do unfortunately think though that Baelish will fall. Thus far he's been set up as this perfect player of the game of THrones and with Martin that will inevitably get him killed.

Baelish is my favorite sir, i would never blaspheme his good name

[Sidelle]

Dont think this has been posted, but if so I am sorry. :)

Love the behind the scenes stuff about season 4. Omg can't wait! It looks awesome.

Ice and Fire: A Foreshadowing (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J5iS3tULXMQ)

[Sirken]

Dont think this has been posted, but if so I am sorry. :)

Love the behind the scenes stuff about season 4. Omg can't wait! It looks awesome.

Ice and Fire: A Foreshadowing (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J5iS3tULXMQ)

i actually stumbled across it by accident flipping through my DVR stuff earlier in the day, it was definitely awesome and i wont spoil anything, but that last scene was epic. the whole thing was amazing. A+ gold star high thumbs uppin five!

one thing ive been really curious about was the dragons for this season. in the second half of book 3 the dragons are the same size as they are in the first half of book 3.... but season 4 will consist of not just the second half of book 3 but also stuff from books 4 and 5. and as we all know, the dragons are MUCH different between books 3 and 5. sooo which dragons do we get?

[Mandalore93]

Hopefully they try to stick to the books as much as possible.

Reading through a Clash of Kings again and now onto A Storm of Swords....it still just completely bothers me how Stannis is described as this fearsome commander on both land and sea and then he gets fucking rolled at King's landing. He's portrayed as this patient, strategic commander in comparison to his rash, audacious brother but he immediately storms KL as soon as he gets there? Not only that but apparently he disregards the only threat his army could have (attack from the west by Tywin force marching) and gets rolled? Not only that, but in my opinion he is portrayed as a man who picks the right guy for the job. Then he picks some shitty lordling as his admiral who leaves his two most experienced sea commanders in the second line (Davos) and in the rear (the pirate - can't remember his name. Salidor Xan or something like that? Not sure about spelling since I use audio books)

Also, I still hate Cat. But it's not as blinding as it once was. I think my gf might be tempering my heart. She's still a rash dumb, dumb bitch though. Maybe it's just because it's the second read through that I can't muster that rage anymore :*(

I guess just the sheer irrationality of some characters still drives me up the wall. Like when Renly dies. "omg she must have did it, even though she had to go through sheer steel to do it." Although I can certainly make an allowance for the heat of the moment right after. But in the long run it just makes no sense.

[Mandalore93]

Back up to the point that Robb marries the Westerling woman. All I could do was smile and shake my head. Was also cool to read the woods witch telling Tom seven strings a few prophecies that ended up coming true that I knew in retrospect.

I do suffer from a lack of "correct" point of view when reading. As in, I view it from my perspective and not always that of the characters in the books. Although I do feel much more sorry for cat, even if she is a dumb bitch. Entire Stark line should be doomed to death for their stupidity (what they call, honor) but no doubt they'll be a premiere family by the end again.

[Nocsucow]

http://youtu.be/d2ZNaLQD60Y


Second trailer for Season 4 GET HERE ALREADY DAMMIT

[Sobee101]

All you Game of Thrones fan may enjoy this new TV series as well called Black Sails http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvxpv_fycl8

[Funkutron5000]

That Cold Hands at the end of the trailer? A man must wonder.

[BahamutDF]

So this is topic is haunting me because I can't read it. I'm only on book two. All I want to do is come in here and have all the secrets of the universe unveiled, but alas, I must show restraint. ASOIAF deserves that much.

[Sidelle]

i actually stumbled across it by accident flipping through my DVR stuff earlier in the day, it was definitely awesome and i wont spoil anything, but that last scene was epic. the whole thing was amazing. A+ gold star high thumbs uppin five!

one thing ive been really curious about was the dragons for this season. in the second half of book 3 the dragons are the same size as they are in the first half of book 3.... but season 4 will consist of not just the second half of book 3 but also stuff from books 4 and 5. and as we all know, the dragons are MUCH different between books 3 and 5. sooo which dragons do we get?

Drogon be lookin pretty big and badass compared to the tiny human treat in front of him.

Just a few more weeks, ya'll. :)

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/game-of-thrones-season-4-dragon-hbo.jpg

[Sidelle]

So this is topic is haunting me because I can't read it. I'm only on book two. All I want to do is come in here and have all the secrets of the universe unveiled, but alas, I must show restraint. ASOIAF deserves that much.

This series has secrets within its secrets. Sometimes I feel like none of us will ever be able to know everything. Lol

[Sidelle]

All you Game of Thrones fan may enjoy this new TV series as well called Black Sails http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvxpv_fycl8

Been trying to get into this because I dig the whole pirates and rogues scene. It's alright so far but hasn't caught my undivided attention just yet. Gonna keep watching it and see.

In other TV news.. Walking Dead is back for second half of season 4... and it doesn't suck! My personal opinion is that season 3 and first half of 4 were pretty boring.

Another new show that I'm starting to get into is True Detective on HBO. Last night's episode was great. I suspect it's starting to suck me in. :D

[BahamutDF]

The only thing I'm calling now (I haven't read a word of the thread, and claim no knowledge of anything) is that Jon Snow is half Targaryen.

[Sirken]

http://youtu.be/d2ZNaLQD60Y
Second trailer for Season 4 GET HERE ALREADY DAMMIT

and... i came

[Sirken]

That Cold Hands at the end of the trailer? A man must wonder.

i dont think so. Coldhands is surrounded by ravens, rides a giant elk, and wears a black cloak like the old nights watch use to wear.

but who knows, im gonna go crazy if they cut Coldhands out of the show

[Sirken]

So this is topic is haunting me because I can't read it. I'm only on book two. All I want to do is come in here and have all the secrets of the universe unveiled, but alas, I must show restraint. ASOIAF deserves that much.

its much more rewarding not to have it spoiled for you. guessing whats to come next, going over theories in your head just to have GRRM shit all over them. keep reading. try to finish book 3 before the series. Book 3 is the best, the RW is only about halfway into book3.

[Sirken]

The only thing I'm calling now (I haven't read a word of the thread, and claim no knowledge of anything) is that Jon Snow is half Targaryen.

welcome to R+L=J

[BahamutDF]

its much more rewarding not to have it spoiled for you. guessing whats to come next, going over theories in your head just to have GRRM shit all over them. keep reading. try to finish book 3 before the series. Book 3 is the best, the RW is only about halfway into book3.

I agree. I had the whole Ned Stark thing spoiled for me in season one (tv show) because of poorly marked spoilers. When the episode came, it was still :eek: but lacked the surprise.

I've watched through season 3, I'm just trying to catch up in the novels because of how much more expansive they are. Lesser characters have much clearer histories/motivations etc.

One thing is for sure, as addicted as I've been to EQ since I was 14 years old in 2000 is how addicted I am to this damn story. It's absolutely geek heaven.

[Funkutron5000]

and... i came

The comments on the trailer are funny. People on the internet are such raging assholes. So glad I've read the books!

Just seems odd to have a single walker there in a shot like that. I know they never really describe Cold Hand's face in the books (at least that I remember), but I wouldn't be shocked if they changed Elk --> Horse for reasons of not wanting to CGI the damn thing he's riding.

[Sirken]

The comments on the trailer are funny. People on the internet are such raging assholes. So glad I've read the books!

Just seems odd to have a single walker there in a shot like that. I know they never really describe Cold Hand's face in the books (at least that I remember), but I wouldn't be shocked if they changed Elk --> Horse for reasons of not wanting to CGI the damn thing he's riding.

i actually wont link friends to youtube GoT stuff unless theyve read the books for that reason.

as far as the elk>horse, fine. but the fucking cloak? they need a way to show hes different than the other walkers as well as hinting at him being a former watch member.

theyre cutting strong belwas, i pray to the old gods and the new gods that they dont take away coldhands

[Mandalore93]

If they take out Belwas, does this mean one of her blood riders will be buying the farm for her by eating those poisoned things? Can't remember what they are at this point. Some sort of bugs?

[Sirken]

If they take out Belwas, does this mean one of her blood riders will be buying the farm for her by eating those poisoned things? Can't remember what they are at this point. Some sort of bugs?

well thats the thing. Belwas should have been introduced when Barristan shows up with Dany. they can easily have someone else eat the bugs, but that person better be big. the whole point was that the only reason Belwas survived was due to his ridiculously large size. that being said, we can see from the trailers that parts of book 5 (especially Dany in Mereen) will be included in Season 4 (expect the harpy Hizdar shadowwar crap).

[Mandalore93]

Just got past the part where Kybun says he was apprenticed by marwin...interesting...

[Sidelle]

Kybun = Qyburn ;)

and yea, those are two characters u need to keep your eyes on,

fun fact: Marwin played a role in teaching the bitch that dany sets on fire in book 1 with Drogo's funeral/burning (whatever).

Yeah, I made a note of this recently to myself while rereading the books regarding Mirri Maz Durr and Marwin. Trying to pay special attention to some of these Maesters to gather more clues... What is up with these guys?.. Definitely something.

[Sirken]

Yeah, I made a note of this recently to myself while rereading the books regarding Mirri Maz Durr and Marwin. Trying to pay special attention to some of these Maesters to gather more clues... What is up with these guys?.. Definitely something.

yea, you and i both. i missed a lot in book 4 because i was rushing through it. but the citadel in oldtown is srs business. Marwyn the mage is up to stuff, a sandsnake in disguise as a man, jaqan h'gar(pate), Sam from the watch, etc. theres a few people just hanging around in oldtown, and theres reasons. we have horns, books, a glass candle, and who knows what else?

im also still foggy on why the fawk that knight hacks up myrcella

[Funkutron5000]

I'm just sad I can never forget about Sam's fat pink mast.

[Mandalore93]

I can not comprehend how Sam is still fat after serving in what has nearly been a year in the night's watch with a good month of that at the least spent beyond the wall on near starvation rations slogging through foot deep snow.

[Zadrian]

Not reading this thread anymore - just got my Season 3 blu ray in the mail.. Haven't seen it yet... Can't wait to watch the battle between Bill Gates and the Sony CEO

[Sirken]

I'm just sad I can never forget about Sam's fat pink mast.

:(

[Sirken]

I can not comprehend how Sam is still fat after serving in what has nearly been a year in the night's watch with a good month of that at the least spent beyond the wall on near starvation rations slogging through foot deep snow.

might be the best point ever made in this thread

[Mandalore93]

He ain't no lord's son anymore!

[Sirken]

He ain't no lord's son anymore!

so what do u guys think about Sam then? will he end up Maester at the wall? the Grand Maester of the Citadel? king of the iron fucking throne?

im curious for your Samwell Tarley theories

[Mandalore93]

Gets raped by Tywin's reanimated corpse!

But in seriousness I think he will become maester at the wall at least for a short time then depending on how Jon's story turns out...maybe Grand Maester at KL?

[Sirken]

i like the sam at the wall theory, but i just feel thats too boring and that sam will play a role in some fashion.

if Jon Snow was King, Samwell Tarley would be his hand ;)

[Mandalore93]

I think Tyrion comes back and becomes hand.

[Sirken]

maybe. Dany and Jon both like Tyrion, so i personally think that could be a thing in due time. but Tyrion has a ton of work to do before Dany will be ok with a lannister. remember how slow news travels, odds are Dany will have no idea what had gone down in book 3 with tyrion.

jon only finds out about the RW from the raven sending word to castle black.

[Mandalore93]

I think ultimately that Jon Snow becomes King, Dany is queen, Tyrion becomes hand, and Sam becomes grand maestor. I think that's the "cleanest" ending. However, with Dany unable to bear children, it makes one think about that girly little woman meeting an....unsavory end perhaps.

[Sirken]

with Dany unable to bear children, it makes one think about that girly little woman meeting an....unsavory end perhaps.

i really, REALLY expect them to go the "jesus" route here. she'll die or be killed to save everybody.

[Mandalore93]

Kind of agree. Especially if Jon is a taegaeryan

[Sirken]

Kind of agree. Especially if Jon is a taegaeryan

words words words words (<~~ just a spoiler blocker for someone that i know reads my posts)




oh hes got to be. Jon being targ fits to perfectly. theres absolutely no other reason that the 3 best members of the kingsguard would have been at the tower of joy with Lyanna, after both Arys Rhaegar and Rhaegars two kids are dead.

[Mandalore93]

Just discovered the ASOIAF sub reddit. Mercy on my soul! Just discovered the Bolt-ON
theory and now I can't stop thinking about it!

[Mandalore93]

Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_Qon-Udlhw

[Sidelle]

***Tin-Foil Hat Alert*** :D

I've been thinking more and more of the Starks lately and whether or not there will ever be a reckoning for the betrayals of the Red Wedding and Ned's execution. I was thinking it could possibly be brought about by one angry young Stark named Rickon. He may be young and far away and we don't know what he is up to right now, but I think it may be significant how he and Shaggydog are always portrayed as full of rage and impulsive; the perfect recipe for brewing up some revenge.

I guess I just think he is someone to keep an eye on if he shows back up again. If that happens he will most likely be recognized as the rightful Lord of Winterfell, because I seriously doubt Bran will ever come back from where he is.

So what do you guys think about Rickon's future? Will he fade into obscurity or come back with a vengeance?

[Mandalore93]

I don't think he does anything beyond being a rallying point for the north men, he'll be six or so by the end of the series?

What's your take on Bolton being the night's king?

[Sidelle]

I'm still rereading the books slowly and carefully because I forgot so many details when I read them before, so currently I am reading ACoK. I haven't put much thought into Bolton but I did go looking into it on the Westeros site. Very interesting. People may be onto something here. I like it. :)

[Mandalore93]

The thing that doesn't match up in that theory (imo) is that the Night's King was reportedly a Stark, but that could honestly be covered up pretty easily. Quite a few of the points match up. But I do feel that if he was immortal that at some point, someone would see the lack of a body for the father.

[Sirken]

***Tin-Foil Hat Alert*** :D

I've been thinking more and more of the Starks lately and whether or not there will ever be a reckoning for the betrayals of the Red Wedding and Ned's execution. I was thinking it could possibly be brought about by one angry young Stark named Rickon. He may be young and far away and we don't know what he is up to right now, but I think it may be significant how he and Shaggydog are always portrayed as full of rage and impulsive; the perfect recipe for brewing up some revenge.

I guess I just think he is someone to keep an eye on if he shows back up again. If that happens he will most likely be recognized as the rightful Lord of Winterfell, because I seriously doubt Bran will ever come back from where he is.

So what do you guys think about Rickon's future? Will he fade into obscurity or come back with a vengeance?

dont expect the starks to win or get revenge just cause it seems "right". Ned, Cat, and Robb all did really dumb shit, and thats why they are all dead. to hope for them to get revenge is almost like catering to extremely dumb people (and its bad to cater to the dumb because it only encourages them to keep being dumb).

as far as rickon, for all we know, that kid is now king of the cannabals and riding a unicorn. because they have unicorns and cannabals in Skagos :)

as far as the lord of Winterfell.. you can bet that ass that Jon Snow will be legitimized as a true stark at some ppoint... but wait.. if hes Lyanna's son, then Rickon has a better claim than Jon.

i need time to work on this on :P

[Sirken]

as far as the lord of Winterfell.. you can bet that ass that Jon Snow will be legitimized as a true stark at some ppoint... but wait.. if hes Lyanna's son, then Rickon has a better claim than Jon.

i need time to work on this on :P


ok. Rickon has to end up as the lord of winterfell, no way around that

[Kazi]

I don't know if this has been covered, but I think GRRM has written himself into a hole and only a dozen deus ex machinas can save the story at this point. Hope not though.

[Mandalore93]

Nahhh. He be good, yo. Danny has to die, Jon is lyanna's son by Rhaegar, he becomes king, Rickon becomes lord of winterfell, does nothing else since he's like 5 right now, maybe 6? Tyrion becomes hand of the king.

Also, do you guys think that Danny ends up sailing east from where she's at, to be the first to cross the sunset sea?

Also, Danny's whole fucking story line has pretty much been entirely deus ex machina. Can't do something? nbd dragons.

[Kazi]

Basically the only promising story lines are Bran and Sam (church conspiracy theories signmeup). Dany, Stanos, Arya, Sansa - all going no where real fast. Shit better pick up in the next book :@

[Sirken]

Basically the only promising story lines are Bran and Sam (church conspiracy theories signmeup). Dany, Stanos, Arya, Sansa - all going no where real fast. Shit better pick up in the next book :@
my 2 cp,

Dany is going to be jesus, she gonna die to save everybody from the white walkers.

Stanos will become the 1000th commander of the nights watch (Jon was 998, someone will replace Jon after he gets Julius Caesar'd in book 5 and become 999. i imagine when Stannos sees Dany's dragons, and Melisandre dumps him for Jon, Stannos will accept defeat. but unable to serve under anyone else being king, he will excuse himself from the kingdom by taking the black, and will be selected to lead them as their 1000th lord commander.

Arya is tricky. shes always on the move and always learning new skills. personally i doubt she'll ever kill the peeps on her list, however i don't expect anything from her story other than more adventures before she is ultimately reunited with Jon, Sansa, Bran, and Rickon.

Sansa might could be boring. but i fully expect her to learn ALOT from Baelish, before ultimately killing him, and taking the Vale for herself. i dont think the Harry the heir thing will come to fruition.

anywho, those are my thoughts.

[Mandalore93]

But mainly guys, the Bastard of Nightsong.

[Sirken]

But mainly guys, the Bastard of Nightsong.

i actually had to look this guy up, because i simply did not remember him. and i don't think he's dead. i think he fled dragonstone and headed north.

imo, they arent dead until i see a body

[Mandalore93]

I think so too. Was mainly just saying that he's a god damn bad ass.

[Rhambuk]

Hoping theres more than one episode where something happens this season.



doubt it lol

[Sidelle]

Hoping theres more than one episode where something happens this season.



doubt it lol

^^^Dracarys!

http://25.media.tumblr.com/71eebf5d8de389d41f4a3353c3e17a61/tumblr_n0rq3f9gIG1qm1x8bo1_500.gif

[Rhambuk]

listen here nerd

lol

Treading on thin ice here I know! I was just so let down with the lack of content in S3, there was the red wedding but I felt like that was it basically... My friend, who has read the books, tells me that according to the book S4 is gonna be pretty slow. That Daenerys doesn't even cross the sea? she just took the army and the city and just has to go over, how do you not do that in an entire book?

i know speculation

[Sirken]

lol

Treading on thin ice here I know! I was just so let down with the lack of content in S3, there was the red wedding but I felt like that was it basically... My friend, who has read the books, tells me that according to the book S4 is gonna be pretty slow. That Daenerys doesn't even cross the sea? she just took the army and the city and just has to go over, how do you not do that in an entire book?

i know speculation

one does not just cross the narrow sea when they must first deal with the harpy.

your friend is either trolling you, or, an idiot. as some thats read the books, i can guesstimate how far they are going based on the trailers. expect huge (like near red wedding huge) things in Episodes 2, 5, 7, 8, and 9

<3

[Sirken]

^^^Dracarys!

http://25.media.tumblr.com/71eebf5d8de389d41f4a3353c3e17a61/tumblr_n0rq3f9gIG1qm1x8bo1_500.gif

Sidelle, the best part of that is, i think its episode 2ish. maybe Ep1.

speaking of episodes though, we got some episode titles.

E1- Title: Two Swords - clearly a ref to widowswail and oathkeeper
E2- Title: The Lion and the Rose - purple wedding bitches. THE ENTIRE EPISODE. and written by GRRM
E3- Title: Breaker of Chains - Dany in Mereen(slaves freed, Drogon escapes), Tyrion too maybe? he'll be chained up after Ep2 for sure.
E4- Title: Oathkeeper- Brienne gets the sword and armor from Jaime, and embarks on her buddy quest with Pod.
E5- Title: First of his Name - possibly Tommen named?

April 6th

[Sidelle]

Sidelle, the best part of that is, i think its episode 2ish. maybe Ep1.

speaking of episodes though, we got some episode titles.

E1- Title: Two Swords - clearly a ref to widowswail and oathkeeper
E2- Title: The Lion and the Rose - purple wedding bitches. THE ENTIRE EPISODE. and written by GRRM
E3- Title: Breaker of Chains - Dany in Mereen(slaves freed, Drogon escapes), Tyrion too maybe? he'll be chained up after Ep2 for sure.
E4- Title: Oathkeeper- Brienne gets the sword and armor from Jaime, and embarks on her buddy quest with Pod.
E5- Title: First of his Name - possibly Tommen named?

April 6th

OMG can't wait! :)

[Dalven]

Purple wedding being episode 2 is well earlier than I expected, we are going to get a good chunk of early AFFC/ADWD towards the end of this series.

Looks awesome, can't wait.

[Mandalore93]

Rereading Dany AFFC and ADWD just reconfirms my dislike for her. She's an idealist, who takes the pragmatic option when it's not pragmatic and doesn't take the pragmatic options that would save her little city.

[Kazi]

Ed Stark's chart is my fave
http://m.imgur.com/gallery/9NWEM

[Keriath]

Ha!

Rough.

[Sirken]

Ed Stark's chart is my fave
http://m.imgur.com/gallery/9NWEM

posting it for those to lazy to click links. and also i agree, its the best one sir, A+ find!

18 days til Season 4


http://i.imgur.com/XhXrOC1.gif

[Youlath]

Just found this, so i'm going to reply to all of your shit in bold. did not read thread.



Azor Azai = Jon? he'll be reborn by Melisandre, and as such able to battle with the Boltons.

It's pretty clear that, given the prologue of ADwD which had two main points; first being Jon's an amazing warg/skinchanger, and that warg/skinchangers have their spirit/soul transferred to their animal. Also, Mel's visions of "man, wolf, man again" -- pretty obvious what's going to happen here.

However, I don't believe that Azor Ahai = Jon. I believe Azor Ahai is simply an idea, or even multiple people. I doubt one person will fulfill the orle entirely.

Ramsays letter to Jon is clearly BS.

Yes -- and it's probably not even Ramsay who sent it.

How about those meat pies that Lord Manderly served to the Freys ;)

savor every bite, my lords -- i know I shall

Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Snow (which is why Ned must lie to even Robert when asked and go with the Wylla story) Jon born in 283AL, Lyanna dies in 283AL. however Ashera Dayne and Howland Reed must know the truth. Ashera told Ned to go to the Tower of Joy. and i believe Howland Reed was there as well. Ashera "kills" herself so that the baby can both go with Ned, and also, more importantly, Ashera will be said to be the mother so that if Jon has Targaryen features, they can be excused as Dayne features. But Jon looks a lot like Arya, and Arya looks a lot like Lyanna.... and of course.. "Promise me.. Ned.."

The stuff with Ashara doesn't seem that likely. I think, personally, that Ashara is actually dead. however, R+L=J is practically 100% certain at this point. The question is, does it even matter? Nobody will believe Jon a legitimate Targaryen heir even if the truth gets out, and the only one who knows the truth is Howland Reed, anyway.

Septa Lemore = (i think) Ashera Dayne. which would make a lot more sense if YoungGriff/Aegon was actually her kid, that was secretly swapped with Elia Martells baby (assuming her baby was stillborn)

I don't think so. There isn't enough evidence, and it's pretty clear that Eddard believes she is dead, which makes me inclined to believe that she is dead.

Lightbringer = the men of the nights watch (or Dawn?)

Probably not Dawn. Probably, along with Azor Ahai, multiple things will fit this criteria.

Strong Robert = Gregor with Robb Starks head

Definitely Gregor. Robb's head seems iffy and unnecessary.

jaqen h'ghar = the alchemist (kills pate) = Pate. but WHY does Jaqen H'Ghar want to be in oldtown? Sams Horn?

Yes, yes, yes -- there is a very tinfoil theory that the Faceless Men destroyed all of the dragons in the past. There is one copy of the book "The Death of Dragons" in Oldtown, which basically states how to kill dragons. Seems likely that they would want it if they have some thing against dragons.

i was told Tyrion could be a Targaryen, need more info please. (i dont think this is a thing)

Just a stupid theory that when the Mad King basically said he wished that the lord's rite (getting first dibs on that vajayjay on wedding night) was abolished at Tywin's wedding, that means he somehow banged her and sired Tyrion, and because people believe Tyrion is one of the "Three Heads of the Dragon". Stupid tinfoil, doesn't make sense at all.

Brienne screamed a word.. that word was clearly "sword". which means when she lured Jaime to see the hound, that was probably garbage, and Brienne is probably taking him to see Lady Stoneheart.

Widely accepted.

Hound is either the elder brother / grave digger, or, that person knows where the hound is hiding. he doesnt say the hound is dead, he says the hound is "at rest". he claims he buried the armor and used the helm to mark the grave. the helm is stolen and the wearer reeks havoc, which is then blamed on the hound.

Seems likely. "The Hound is dead. Sandor is at peace." I believe the person wearing his helm, by the way, was Rorge (or Biter?) -- one of the Brave Companions

Bloodraven = Brynden Rivers

Basically canon.

Bran will never leave that cave. ever. (Jojen needs a fucking blanket)

Not in his body.

dragon riders should be, Dany, Aegon, and Jon, as they would all be Targaryens

Aegon seems iffy. He may not even be a real Targ. Jon seems like an ideal candidate, but how/when would this happen? Dany might not even get her other two dragons back.

Rickon is probably in Skagos, we know Bran went worth, so it makes sense Rickon would go the other way.

Yep. Basically confirmed by Davos with the Cannibal Island stuff.

there MUST ALWAYS be a stark in winterfell. maybe ghosts in winterfell. ie: i think one of the ghosts talks to Theon.

ehh

Balon Greyjoy i think was murdered by a faceless man, who was probably hired by Euron when he was sailing out east (near Bravos, or Asshai) (maybe Euron also hired them to get him the ice horn so that Euron has both?)

Faceless Man is a pretty popular theory, given the vision of the man without a face at Pike. Euron hiring him also seems likely.

Varys. we know by what he says to Kevan that Varys is going to support Aegons claim. however, we do not know if Aegon is actually a Targaryen, or if the babe was swapped with Ashera Daynes babe or Illyrio's son.

I still don't think Ashara had a kid. Not much else to say on this.

and i know lots of theories exist that say Ashera is Jons mother. but imo, thats garbage, as i said earlier, R+L=Jon Snow.

yes

should stannis die, maybe Gendry becomes Lord of the Baratheon Family?

Baratheon name will probably be dead unless Mya Stone is legitimized. I don't see Gendry becoming more important to the Baratheons, though I do see him becoming more important.

Knight of the Laughing Tree? maybe Lyanna? or Authur Dayne? or Howland Reed? Meera was surprised Bran hadnt heard the story, so most likely it was a stark.

99% certain it was Lyanna

Where the fuck is Howland Reed?

***** be floatin

Coldhands = old night king

Coldhands is one of the most mysterious identities. It could be a number of people. It could even be some random. I doubt we'll ever get a clear answer on this.

and then that brings us to Baelish. personally, i wouldnt be surprised if Baelish wins the whole game. Robert Arryn will die soon. the only other Arryn (Harrold Hardyng) will be married to sansa to lock down Winterfell and the North as well as the Vale of Arryn and Eyrie. not sure how he plans to take the south, unless Jofferys wedding was not the only plans made by The queen of thorns and Baelish. maybe her family rules the south, while baelish rules the north.... at least until the dragons show up anyway. (nevermind, im convinced that Sansa will bring about the end of Baelish)

I have a feeling LF is getting set up to be roasted by a certain dragon, long before Sansa's got enough power to depose him.

[Kazi]

I always just kind of assumed Coldhands was the missing Stark uncle.

Also, is there a good recap website? Cuz damn.

[Youlath]

That is a common assumption, however one of the children of the forest states "He is very old."

From there, you assume that, because Children of the Forest are fucking old too, that it can't be Benjen Stark.


Most of what Sirken posted originally is probably on reddit.com/r/asoiaf -- all of the tinfoil theories can be found there

otherwise check the ASOIAF wiki

[Kazi]

Good point on Benjen not being thousands of years old. Also, I mean Cliff's Notes for the books, not theories. Something to just read that highlights all the important stuff from each chapter, etc.

[Sirken]

wall of text

u had me at "***** be floatin"

where do u stand on Dany and Vic making a deal, gets her the ships to go west, gives him a chance to maybe usurp Euron.

i'm also thinking at some point Dany will die in some fashion that sacrifices herself to save everybody else.

Rolland Storm, thoughts?

[Youlath]

Is Rolland really that important? Not really sure.

Dany/Vic going west seems to be what the "plan" is, but now with her soon to be at the head of another Khalasar, who knows.

As far as Dany...

I'll just post the ending which I wrote on some thread on Reddit that I think would be ideal. And it's how I see Dany's fate; perhaps not exactly, but something similar.

"Burn them all!

The terrified cries of two mad regents echoed through Jaime's mind. One cried for wildfire, the other for dragon's breath. Fortunately, the dragons had died weeks before. The final straw which turned Daenerys Stormborn into the Mad Queen.

She was even more beautiful in death, Jaime decided. Her father died with fear and confusion in his eyes; Daenerys with only peace. Perhaps she was reunited with her barbarian.

Jaime finally dropped his sword, still dripping with the blood of yet another Targaryen psychopath. He walked calmly to the Iron Throne, and took a seat. What would they call him now? Queenslayer? He wasn't sure he cared.

The creaking of the massive doors of the great hall stirred him, and Jaime looked to see who would trot in to judge him now."

[Sirken]

Is Rolland really that important? Not really sure.

Dany/Vic going west seems to be what the "plan" is, but now with her soon to be at the head of another Khalasar, who knows.

As far as Dany...

I'll just post the ending which I wrote on some thread on Reddit that I think would be ideal. And it's how I see Dany's fate; perhaps not exactly, but something similar.

"Burn them all!

The terrified cries of two mad regents echoed through Jaime's mind. One cried for wildfire, the other for dragon's breath. Fortunately, the dragons had died weeks before. The final straw which turned Daenerys Stormborn into the Mad Queen.

She was even more beautiful in death, Jaime decided. Her father died with fear and confusion in his eyes; Daenerys with only peace. Perhaps she was reunited with her barbarian.

Jaime finally dropped his sword, still dripping with the blood of yet another Targaryen psychopath. He walked calmly to the Iron Throne, and took a seat. What would they call him now? Queenslayer? He wasn't sure he cared.

The creaking of the massive doors of the great hall stirred him, and Jaime looked to see who would trot in to judge him now."

i truly would not be shocked if Dany went mad either, as they say, its a coin flip. however, i do not see Jaime Lannister being a part of Dany's QueensGuard, nor do i see Jaime holding any role that would place him close to Dany. and to be quite honest, i wouldnt be surprised if Jaime dies before Dany, completing his transformation into a good guy that everyone loves (and everyone completely forgets he pushed a 10yr old boy out a window), and then in typical GRRM fashion, he will probably die.

one thing im kinda looking forward to this season is that they replaced Ilyn Payne with Bronn for the guy that will spar with the left handed Jaime, and that should make for some pretty witty dialog imo.

if ur curious why the switch, its because the actor that plays Ilyn is fighting cancer and too sick for filming. hope that turns out ok for him.

also just learned today that they showed Maege Mormont during the scene where the northern lords are pledging to robb stark and declaring him the king in the north.

[Youlath]

Don't forget that Jaime knows about a lot of the secret passageways in King's Landing. I don't see it too farfetched that he ends up coming out of a hole in the throne room after Dany's dragons all bite it (probably fighting the WWs)

[Mandalore93]

If anyone is to continue the baratheon line it's Roland. He's the only one whose mother was gently born. Not to mention he had been trained as a lord and is known throughout the storm lands

[Sirken]

Don't forget that Jaime knows about a lot of the secret passageways in King's Landing. I don't see it too farfetched that he ends up coming out of a hole in the throne room after Dany's dragons all bite it (probably fighting the WWs)

why do you think Jaime knows them? going to Tyrion in the blackcells isnt the same as using the tunnels. as far as i know, the only person that really knows them is varys.

also, i dont see Dany's dragons dieing, especially since it's mentioned that they can breed with each other to make more eggs.

[Youlath]

He at least knows a little bit of them. Pretty sure that he went through part of them to get to the black cells.

I honestly don't see this series ending with all 3 of her dragons still alive. It's just too fairytale for GRRM.

[Sirken]

If anyone is to continue the baratheon line it's Roland. He's the only one whose mother was gently born. Not to mention he had been trained as a lord and is known throughout the storm lands

but he's a bastard of House Caron, how does that continue the baratheon line? don't forget, Stannis, Shireen, Edric, Gendry are all still out there. if a king legitimizes Edric or Gendry, they could easily continue the line should Stannis die without producing a son.

if Rolland was legitimized hed become Rolland Caron

[Sirken]

He at least knows a little bit of them. Pretty sure that he went through part of them to get to the black cells.

I honestly don't see this series ending with all 3 of her dragons still alive. It's just too fairytale for GRRM.

with as much as he borrows from actual world history, i dont think it's far fetched for history to repeat itself. the head of the targaryens shows up with 3 dragons and 2 siblings to conquer/unite westeros under a single leader.

i see Dany dying, but it wouldnt be til after she got to westeros probably took KL, and learns of the WW threat/invasion. that being said, i dont see more than 1 dragon dying. i truly dont expect the dragon line to be wiped out in one generation.

[Sidelle]

I just can't shake the feeling that Gendry is important.

SEVEN HELLS, I HATE WAITING FOR THE STORY TO UNFOLD FOR YEARS AND YEARS!

[Youlath]

I just can't shake the feeling that Gendry is important.

SEVEN HELLS, I HATE WAITING FOR THE STORY TO UNFOLD FOR YEARS AND YEARS!

I can see some pseudo civil-war between Lady Stoneheart's crew/the people who abandoned the BWB when she took over, with Gendry being important in that.