Recent Events

[Zeelot]

Recent Exploit

Recently, I found out via Rogean's inflammatory post that 2-3 TMO members who had access to a large number of TMO accounts used some sort of item dupe at some point in time on their own characters. Froovy and Internode are two that I have heard of so far (unfortunately members trusted them with access to many accounts, including one of my alt cleric accounts), I have not heard any other evidence implicating any other TMO members. Almost all banned accounts have nothing to do with any exploit. I am sure they will enjoy their no-eq christmas holidays thanks to Rogean's new hardline approach, banning unrelated parties.


It is based on that information that we are raid suspending the guild for 2 weeks. We brought up the possibility of completely disbanding The Mystical Order. Personally, I find it hard to believe that TMO leadership was not aware or suspicious of this happening, however we are only able to take action on the information we have.

In the past, we have dealt with things legitimately. We respect GMs and speak with you through the petition forums and proper channels. I am unsure why you are attacking TMO publicly rather than coming to the leadership and trying to get to the bottom of it. I would obviously assist you any way I can & remove any parties you informed me as cheaters. Banning 80+ unrelated parties seems like a personal vendetta more than anything. Especially when you do it while calling out the guild name, saying we were lucky to not been disbanded. TMO has been playing here since when the server pop was in the low 100s. We have been helping with promoting & classicizing the server for years; perhaps we have dominated the raid scene, but we have contributed as much as we can to bug reports and making this server the classic experience Nilbog envisions.

Real Money Trading

another guild member recently banned for heavy RMT inolvement

As far as I am aware, 1 ex-TMO named Crazyeyes the King of Thieves was caught for this recently. Totally caught us off guard, there's always been people who quit EQ and cash out, how can you hold a guild accountable for that - One individual member who bails.

Why were no other guilds who had RMTers in it called out to the server? Once again seems like a targeted attack.

Raid Scene

an officer recently suspended for ninja looting.

In the past, wizard epic first had been ninja looted off of CT by an officer of a rival guild and nothing was done except a personal suspension. A VP ninja loot of an exe blade off silverwing also occurred in the past with a 1 wk personal suspension. The public announcement of disciplinary action against TMO and the actions of our crazy french Canadian SK(Who has already been suspended for weeks for the infraction - & has a 2month suspension), should have no connection if you wish to be consistent.

The same guild monopolizing raid content for 2 years that they might not even need anymore is ridiculous, just to block other guilds from the chance of gearing up to take on the same end game content.

I was thinking to myself the other day and I came to ask myself.. Are we providing this server to give people the arena to compete to such bitter extremes that it has resorted to taking every absolute measure to be victorious, or are we here to provide a classic Everquest experience for everyone to enjoy?


If you wanted TMO to change our raid scene approach, you could have asked and we would have been open to any ideas. It seems more like you just want TMO to disband or be severely hurt. This has only been an issue since the return of the players who left for EQ mac. I hope we can resolve this and you will remove the post attacking TMO for a few individuals actions.




Thanks

[Tycko]

+1

[Messie]

/popcorn

[Sodapop]

no christmas EQ made me laugh hard.

[sulpher01]

:eek:

[Emile]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs5/2837510_o.gif

[toosweet]

Exploiting was the case that they gave me
Exploiting was the case that they gave me

[Freeport]

Damn Zeelot mad. Guess that was some of his characters that were banned as well...hah
I will be praying to the EQ Gods that he is banned for mocking Rogean.

[kbnexus]

Do we really need to stoop this low?

http://www.foxwoods.com/default.aspx

[Rourk]

How do you know it was only used on their own accounts? Rogean only stated it was used on a 'handful.'

[Langrisserx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wElDcg8ZFs

[Tann]

Ya'll were made a public example of, best way to get a point across!

As for the Raid Scene, private talks wouldn't work when one interested party doesn't want to share. The uber guilds of old, Legacy of Steel, Fires of Heaven, Afterlife.. they had class, they'd let the lower guilds have cracks at raid bosses. LoS even helped my guild take down Vindi once when the CH rotation got messed up and we started losing tanks too quickly. They were after AoW but let us attempt vindi while they waited "patiently" behind us.

tldr, "the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few" James T. Picard

[kbnexus]

Ya'll were made a public example of, best way to get a point across!

As for the Raid Scene, private talks wouldn't work when one interested party doesn't want to share. The uber guilds of old, Legacy of Steel, Fires of Heaven, Afterlife.. they had class, they'd let the lower guilds have cracks at raid bosses. LoS even helped my guild take down Vindi once when the CH rotation got messed up and we started losing tanks too quickly. They were after AoW but let us attempt vindi while they waited "patiently" behind us.

tldr, "the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few" James T. Picard

FoH didnt have wait 3 years in kunark.

[sanforce]

Well said Zeelot. I don't appreciate the attack on TMO as a whole for a few bad apples. It doesn't make sense to take this sweeping public action unless Rogean enjoys all of the drama that it creates. It's a serious issue, but was an unbalanced approach.

[Lazie]

Looks to me that Rogean was giving you reasons why the staff came to the decision they came to. They included.

A member who was part of RMT.

Multiple members involved in exploiting.

A member who was ninja looting items.(This member has also been suspended a few times and kept in the guild)

He then mentioned how the same guild who were harboring these members also continues to cause problems in the end game. Everyone wants to work together to make the raid scene better when discussions are brought up... Except TMO. Their members are consistently the ones who are vocal about not making changes that better the server. Simply because they want to continue to gear up multiple alts and for some they enjoy keeping things from other people. It seems to give them a sort of feeling of superiority that is borderline insane.

Guilds on this server grow and progress pretty consistently until the reach a point where they are competing with your guild Zeelot. Then 2 things happen when they become a threat. Your guild members flame them in OOC/Shout and in rants and flames on these forums. You publicly as a guild leader rarely say anything and just let it happen. You personally have the power to help make this server a better place going forward Zeelot as the leader of TMO. Stop trying to figure out ways to subjugate people and start trying to figure out ways to play nice with them.

[Millburn]

See you in 4 weeks.

Maybe all that holiday cheer will instill some basic decency for when you come back.

http://i.imgur.com/mmZDm8C.jpg

[Troubled]

If you wanted TMO to change our raid scene approach, you could have asked and we would have been open to any ideas.

Because you've been so open to ideas put forth thus far.

Yet you have no respect for anyone else that approached you with this besides people who could make you do it, and not until they decided to point it out. So reasonable.

[Obito]

This is too good. You and your guild are completely guilty by association. I hope the raid scene changes, but at the same time, I hope TMO can't play nice and Rogean /guilddisbands you all.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Rc8k_D3yYoE/Tw4IyOKMysI/AAAAAAAAAls/awgasVzJMfA/s320/Stephen-Colbert-Popcorn.gif

[kbnexus]

Consistency is how every account that had guilty parties access them in the past was also punished the same as the regular owners. With the GM's constantly reminding people not to do it due to previous examples of what could happen. You are getting off light in the fact they are considering not perma-banning ALL the accounts.

You've been raid suspended multiple times all with the same 1-2 week suspension limits never an additional allotment per suspension regardless of the activity. Again, after being in discussion of completely DISBANDING your guild... which has only been done once in the history of this server and it was on red. You again are getting off fairly light, considering going from one extreme down to the typical 2 week ban.

If anything you should be grateful, it has been evident the majority of the server knew what you were doing in excess of scumlike behavior. Xasten himself even admitted the most recent RMT guy was let back into the guild only to rebuild his market through your guilds successes. Seems to me as if you knew about those things that you claim would've been taken care of, but you hadn't. Many people have approached your guild in the past in regards to changing tactics and they were met with nothing more than disrespectful treatment out in the playing field or on the forums.

You won't get pity from people, deal with what came your way... after all wasn't it you who said you didn't care about your guilds reputation? Seems you do now.

Our raid suspensions were received by a corrupt gm who was complicity in a Staff/IB RMT operation. So ya her suspension doesnt hold too much water.


The RMT guy in our guild wasnt booted for RMT he was booted for ninja looting a raid mob. We forgave him. RMT came after.

[kbnexus]

Because you've been so open to ideas put forth thus far.

Yet you have no respect for anyone else that approached you with this besides people who could make you do it, and not until they decided to point it out. So reasonable.

He was talking to rogean not you. If ROGEAN wanted us to have a rotation etc... it would happen.

[Byrjun]

Not sure if attacking Rogean is the best course of action right now.

[Millburn]

He was talking to rogean not you. If ROGEAN wanted us to have a rotation etc... it would happen.

His point still stands, you weren't actually open to ideas because the people who were presenting them were not taken seriously or shot down. The only reason why Rogean is any different in this regard is because he has the ability to force change. That's telling in and of itself that you defer to Rogean and nobody else when it's players not staff that participate in the raid scene.

[Eccezan]

Recent Exploit

Recently, I found out via Rogean's inflammatory post that 2-3 TMO members who had access to a large number of TMO accounts used some sort of item dupe at some point in time on their own characters. Froovy and Internode are two that I have heard of so far (unfortunately members trusted them with access to many accounts, including one of my alt cleric accounts), I have not heard any other evidence implicating any other TMO members. Almost all banned accounts have nothing to do with any exploit. I am sure they will enjoy their no-eq christmas holidays thanks to Rogean's new hardline approach, banning unrelated parties.




In the past, we have dealt with things legitimately. We respect GMs and speak with you through the petition forums and proper channels. I am unsure why you are attacking TMO publicly rather than coming to the leadership and trying to get to the bottom of it. I would obviously assist you any way I can & remove any parties you informed me as cheaters. Banning 80+ unrelated parties seems like a personal vendetta more than anything. Especially when you do it while calling out the guild name, saying we were lucky to not been disbanded. TMO has been playing here since when the server pop was in the low 100s. We have been helping with promoting & classicizing the server for years; perhaps we have dominated the raid scene, but we have contributed as much as we can to bug reports and making this server the classic experience Nilbog envisions.

Real Money Trading



As far as I am aware, 1 ex-TMO named Crazyeyes the King of Thieves was caught for this recently. Totally caught us off guard, there's always been people who quit EQ and cash out, how can you hold a guild accountable for that - One individual member who bails.

Why were no other guilds who had RMTers in it called out to the server? Once again seems like a targeted attack.

Raid Scene



In the past, wizard epic first had been ninja looted off of CT by an officer of a rival guild and nothing was done except a personal suspension. A VP ninja loot of an exe blade off silverwing also occurred in the past with a 1 wk personal suspension. The public announcement of disciplinary action against TMO and the actions of our crazy french Canadian SK(Who has already been suspended for weeks for the infraction - & has a 2month suspension), should have no connection if you wish to be consistent.




If you wanted TMO to change our raid scene approach, you could have asked and we would have been open to any ideas. It seems more like you just want TMO to disband or be severely hurt. This has only been an issue since the return of the players who left for EQ mac. I hope we can resolve this and you will remove the post attacking TMO for a few individuals actions.




Thanks

[Eccezan]

His point still stands, you weren't actually open to ideas because the people who were presenting them were not taken seriously or shot down. The only reason why Rogean is any different in this regard is because he has the ability to force change. That's telling in and of itself that you defer to Rogean and nobody else when it's players not staff that participate in the raid scene.

Why is that hard to understand? All previous #1 guilds on this server have historically behaved in the exact same manner when it comes to dominating raid content. The only reason we are different is because we have done it the longest.

I dont mind the haters, but Rogean should know that there is better ways to address raid concerns than this. And to reward a bunch of raid rule violating flunkies like IB and FE fresh off a legitimate raid suspension of 5 days after multiple raid violations is a complete joke. Impeccable timing.

[Millburn]

Why is that hard to understand? All previous #1 guilds on this server have historically behaved in the exact same manner when it comes to dominating raid content. The only reason we are different is because we have done it the longest.

I dont mind the haters, but Rogean should know that there is better ways to address raid concerns than this. And to reward a bunch of raid rule violating flunkies like IB and FE fresh off a legitimate raid suspension of 5 days after multiple raid violations is a complete joke.

Your predecessors doing it isn't actually justification for doing it yourself. You know that as well as anybody else does. This isn't some court of law that goes off precedence, it's a server ran by a couple people to relive an old nostalgic experience. Have some decency and play as such. See you in 4 weeks duder, have a nice holiday.

[Tann]

FoH didnt have wait 3 years in kunark.

So once the current content reaches a stagnation point of about 2+ years that gives a guild free reign to monopolize the majority of the raid content for the purpose of gearing up 10 alts each and only let those with small fortunes in on the "fun" via MQ's.

Brilliance! I'm sure Furor would've advised the same course of action.

[Pheer]

TMO continuing to angrily defend themselves and not understanding why nobody is taking their side

[Friday]

Learn to play nice or face the consequences. My money is that you get disbanded.

You heard it here first.

[kbnexus]

So once the current content reaches a stagnation point of about 2+ years that gives a guild free reign to monopolize the majority of the raid content for the purpose of gearing up 10 alts each and only let those with small fortunes in on the "fun" via MQ's.

Brilliance! I'm sure Furor would've advised the same course of action.

Its raid or die bro. If a raid guild doesnt raid... is it a raid guild? Of course Velious the proverbial carrot has been dangled in front of us for like 2years.. Ya beta out in a couple months ! winter is coming, winter is coming... oh wait now next spring?

[Langrisserx]

time to stand in EC jerking it alone, third person True Blue style... weee lookat me

[dwightgeary]

Recent Exploit

Recently, I found out via Rogean's inflammatory post that 2-3 TMO members who had access to a large number of TMO accounts used some sort of item dupe at some point in time on their own characters. Froovy and Internode are two that I have heard of so far (unfortunately members trusted them with access to many accounts, including one of my alt cleric accounts), I have not heard any other evidence implicating any other TMO members. Almost all banned accounts have nothing to do with any exploit. I am sure they will enjoy their no-eq christmas holidays thanks to Rogean's new hardline approach, banning unrelated parties.




In the past, we have dealt with things legitimately. We respect GMs and speak with you through the petition forums and proper channels. I am unsure why you are attacking TMO publicly rather than coming to the leadership and trying to get to the bottom of it. I would obviously assist you any way I can & remove any parties you informed me as cheaters. Banning 80+ unrelated parties seems like a personal vendetta more than anything. Especially when you do it while calling out the guild name, saying we were lucky to not been disbanded. TMO has been playing here since when the server pop was in the low 100s. We have been helping with promoting & classicizing the server for years; perhaps we have dominated the raid scene, but we have contributed as much as we can to bug reports and making this server the classic experience Nilbog envisions.

Real Money Trading



As far as I am aware, 1 ex-TMO named Crazyeyes the King of Thieves was caught for this recently. Totally caught us off guard, there's always been people who quit EQ and cash out, how can you hold a guild accountable for that - One individual member who bails.

Why were no other guilds who had RMTers in it called out to the server? Once again seems like a targeted attack.

Raid Scene



In the past, wizard epic first had been ninja looted off of CT by an officer of a rival guild and nothing was done except a personal suspension. A VP ninja loot of an exe blade off silverwing also occurred in the past with a 1 wk personal suspension. The public announcement of disciplinary action against TMO and the actions of our crazy french Canadian SK(Who has already been suspended for weeks for the infraction - & has a 2month suspension), should have no connection if you wish to be consistent.




If you wanted TMO to change our raid scene approach, you could have asked and we would have been open to any ideas. It seems more like you just want TMO to disband or be severely hurt. This has only been an issue since the return of the players who left for EQ mac. I hope we can resolve this and you will remove the post attacking TMO for a few individuals actions.




Thanks

all hate for TMO aside you have to respect and give a benefit of a doubt to zeelot hes a very nice guy and trust worthy imo . just because some of his guild does wrong or what ever it is ... i think zeelot is not the one to be blamed or punished for anything

[Friday]

What an embarrassment to that guild name; rich in history and steeped in tradition. From EQ live when it mattered to a 2 year stagnation "dominating" an emulated classic-like server.

I feel the same disgust when I imagine Dennis Rodman representing America in North Korea.

[Autotune]

TMO had someone RMT off the server.

Staff had someone RMT half a guild off the server.

[Byrjun]

Your predecessors doing it isn't actually justification for doing it yourself.
Plus it's just propaganda and contains no actual truth. A lot of top guilds here didn't even bat phone, TMO definitely had a huge part in completely changing the raiding culture here.

[Godefroi]

Wow, you guys really drained p99's purpose for the sake of your OWN good ($), duping items, RMT'ing them. Besides locking VP with trains and an unclassic raiding, poisoning the competition, constant RnF, constant petitioning harassment to talk GMs and guilt them into destroying loot.

I sure do hope one thing, that guilds now work all together to show you how it's done.

[T7g]

Wow, you guys really drained p99's purpose for the sake of your OWN good ($), duping items, RMT'ing them. Besides locking VP with trains and an unclassic raiding, poisoning the competition, constant RnF, constant petitioning harassment to talk GMs and guilt them into destroying loot.

I sure do hope one thing, that guilds now work all together to show you how it's done.

I came to this server and saw the corruption and the stagnation. Don't even pretend like IB/FE will do the server any favors.

[kbnexus]

Wow, you guys really drained p99's purpose for the sake of your OWN good ($), duping items, RMT'ing them. Besides locking VP with trains and an unclassic raiding, poisoning the competition, constant RnF, constant petitioning harassment to talk GMs and guilt them into destroying loot.

I sure do hope one thing, that guilds now work all together to show you how it's done.

Do you realize how disingenous this post is? You are talking shit and spreading lies about us talking shit ?

[Friday]

You should be apologizing instead of being combative.

Behavior like that and you won't have anything to look forward too in velious.

[Tann]

Its raid or die bro. If a raid guild doesnt raid... is it a raid guild? Of course Velious the proverbial carrot has been dangled in front of us for like 2years.. Ya beta out in a couple months ! winter is coming, winter is coming... oh wait now next spring?

Winter might be coming w/out raid content if all the guilds don't play nice. What then if a raid guild doesn't have a place to raid?

[DrKvothe]

TMO apology video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0EL_u4nvw

[justin2090]

Why is that hard to understand? All previous #1 guilds on this server have historically behaved in the exact same manner when it comes to dominating raid content. The only reason we are different is because we have done it the longest.

I dont mind the haters, but Rogean should know that there is better ways to address raid concerns than this. And to reward a bunch of raid rule violating flunkies like IB and FE fresh off a legitimate raid suspension of 5 days after multiple raid violations is a complete joke. Impeccable timing.

The recent events are so severe that the leadership has to be held accountable as well. You shouldn't have a guild so loosely managed that this can happen. I understand you want to have toons camped at every spawn for a quick reaction force. This is the result of letting everyone have access to those accounts. If you ran a tighter ship perhaps those individuals wouldn't of had access and perhaps all that platinum wouldn't have gotten dupe'd.

A manager is responsible for his/her's employees actions. A Guild Leader is responsible for his guild's actions. And all officer's are an extension of the Guild Leader. It's time to take a look at your leadership and decide who the raid leaders are and who the real leaders are.

I'm a vet btw so I'm not just talking out my ass about leadership.

[Godefroi]

I came to this server and saw the corruption and the stagnation. Don't even pretend like IB/FE will do the server any favors.

See Tanthallas's post for the raiding scene during TMO's absence, also no training in VP and all guilds welcomed.

Spin this.

[cyryllis]

actually a manager is not responsible for his/her employee's actions. That is why when employees fuck up they are fired and replaced

[BlackTriad]

I'm a vet btw so I'm not just talking out my ass about leadership.

Thank you for protecting us.

[Autotune]

The recent events are so severe that the leadership has to be held accountable as well. You shouldn't have a guild so loosely managed that this can happen. I understand you want to have toons camped at every spawn for a quick reaction force. This is the result of letting everyone have access to those accounts. If you ran a tighter ship perhaps those individuals wouldn't of had access and perhaps all that platinum wouldn't have gotten dupe'd.

A manager is responsible for his/her's employees actions. A Guild Leader is responsible for his guild's actions. And all officer's are an extension of the Guild Leader. It's time to take a look at your leadership and decide who the raid leaders are and who the real leaders are.

I'm a vet btw so I'm not just talking out my ass about leadership.

What does being a veterinarian have to do with anything about leadership?

[T7g]

See Tanthallas's post for the raiding scene during TMO's absence, also no training in VP and all guilds welcomed.

Spin this.

Spin what?

I was here when IB was dominating the server and not sharing with anyone.

[Eccezan]

Zeelot you're a fucking scumbag bro. You know your leaders/people in charge know all about or even coordinate the majority of the bannable offenses your guild is guilty of. No one wants to see your spin attempt. just cut the fucking shit its an emulator server. You are a genuine pussy.

Btw susvain, not sure when the last time anyone has told you this. But you truly are an idiot with no grasp of truth and my last hope for you is that you just like to troll.

Get a life. lol

[Lazie]

Notice how when a TMO member makes a thread like this people don't immediately try to get it sent to rants and flames with inflammatory comments. Amazing how that worked out.

[Eccezan]

First off, the only top guilds have only been TMO and IB. just because IB ran the raid scene like cunts doesn't mean you have to. yeah this is "classic". but this server doesn't have to be, atleast right now. I promise if you let some of these smaller guilds take some of the smallest raid bosses you will never think twice or care. It will be like nothing happened

You clearly don't know your head from your ass. But keep on posting, its entertaining.

[Pheer]

Spin what?

I was here when IB was dominating the server and not sharing with anyone.

You mean back when IB was gearing mains? And not 16th alts or EC Tunnel mules?

[Tycko]

First off, the only top guilds have only been TMO and IB. just because IB ran the raid scene like cunts doesn't mean you have to. yeah this is "classic". but this server doesn't have to be, atleast right now. I promise if you let some of these smaller guilds take some of the smallest raid bosses you will never think twice or care. It will be like nothing happened

TMO recently did joint raids with "smaller" guilds. You obviously are not up to speed with current events on the server. Which means your opinion has no weight.

[Lazie]

Thats a joke. Why are you pretending, everyone sees through that paragraph of bullshit.

Zeelot. You're a scumbag. That is the truth buddy.

I spoke too soon... Susvain seems to want this in RNF.

[Skywarp]

Zeelot, the actions of your guildmates unknown to you still reflects on your tag. Not knowing of a crime is not absolution since possession is 9/10ths of the law. Even your attitude.and tone reflect your unwillingness to work with other guilds and lack of accountability for your guildmates actions. Instead of blasting Rog, it would seem prudent to talk to him and work it out behind closed doors. Stay frosty bro.

[cyryllis]

actually you guys are starting to make sense.

no wonder there is so much racism

[heazels]

Damn Zeelot mad. Guess that was some of his characters that were banned as well...hah
I will be praying to the EQ Gods that he is banned for mocking Rogean.

He paid a lot of platinum for that character. Cost him 100 DKP for the other.

[Eccezan]

You're a scumbag. You cheat on an emulator server. Grow the fuckup dude. I promise you if you let more talendors and shit go to deserving people who put in alot of time to see that content you will not give a shit. your life will continue and the sun will rise. it will be okay

Who else is a scumbag? Please, give me some more helpful hints and wise words, you vocab of a 3rd grader 15 year old classic EQ noob.

[justin2090]

actually a manager is not responsible for his/her employee's actions. That is why when employees fuck up they are fired and replaced

So would the manager if the actions were severe or reoccurring. Manager is always responsible. What world do you live in?

[Pheer]

I see why TMO wasn't posting in the RnF threads, they were regrouping privately to all in on one thread

I lol at how you guys are STILL talking mad shit and throwing a tantrum because nobody is willing to give you the benefit of the doubt

You guys could have taken the hit and apologized to the server, promised to get your guild more in line etc., but instead you make a thread acting like victims and like Rogean has a personal vendetta against you. Maybe if you guys would cut out this "we can do no wrong" bullshit and take responsibility for once in your lives, people would actually sympathize a little bit. Imagine if this shit had happened in IB or FE, TMO trolls would be talking about it for 4 more years and you expect everyone else to just take your word that you're all innocent and drop the subject? Get fucking real.

[Eccezan]

Yeah. Maybe you are smarter than me, cool. You still cheat on an emulator server dude.

Such accusations with zero proof. You realize that the vast majority of TMO didn't cheat at all? Or is this part of your troll. Did you graduate high school?

My advice: invest in a G.E.D, get a grasp of the english language and read the front page of the forum to get an idea what happened.

OR:

call me a scumbag cheater.

[Eccezan]

I see why TMO wasn't posting in the RnF threads, they were regrouping privately to all in on one thread

I lol at how you guys are STILL talking mad shit and throwing a tantrum because nobody is willing to give you the benefit of the doubt

You guys could have taken the hit and apologized to the server, promised to get your guild more in line etc., but instead you make a thread acting like victims and like Rogean has a personal vendetta against you. Maybe if you guys would cut out this "we can do no wrong" bullshit and take responsibility for once in your lives, people would actually sympathize a little bit. Imagine if this shit had happened in IB or FE, TMO trolls would be talking about it for 4 more years and you expect everyone else to just take your word that you're all innocent and drop the subject? Get fucking real.

Pheer, who the fuck are you? Wait.. Who the fuck cares? Go to hell with your opinions or tell them to someone who gives a shit.

[Yinikren]

You guys need to lay down and take what punishment they are giving you, because honestly it's a slap on the wrist. Seriously? You guys are 100% against any change for the betterment of the server.

Rogean and GMs have stated multiple times that we as players need to figure out the raid scene, but I can quote you, Zeelot, leader of TMO, stating "if Rogean wanted us to stop we would." That is not an acceptable answer or excuse coming from your guild.

Enjoy the bans, and enjoy the rotation you get to follow with us lesser guilds when you do finally make it back.

[Millburn]

Such accusations with zero proof.

I don't think you get to say that anymore, sorry duder.

[Autotune]

Imagine if this shit had happened in IB or FE, TMO trolls would be talking about it for 4 more years and you expect everyone else to just take your word that you're all innocent and drop the subject? Get fucking real.

It did happen.

Staff had one of their own help several people from IB RMT off the server.

[Eccezan]

You guys need to lay down and take what punishment they are giving you, because honestly it's a slap on the wrist. Seriously? You guys are 100% any change for the better of the server

Rogean and GMs have stated multiple times that we as players need to figure out the raid scene, but I can quote you, Zeelot, leader of TMO, stating "if Rogean wanted us to stop we would." That is not an acceptable answer or excuse coming from your guild.

Enjoy the bans, and enjoy the rotation you get to follow with us lesser guilds when you do finally make it back.

We will enjoy the bans, while you can enjoy pretending your opinion matters. Have fun with your Tranix kills.

[Widan]

It should not matter if you knew that people using your accounts were dupers or not. You willingly gave out your info, people who used your accounts broke the rules, your accounts should be banned permanently with theirs.

[Pheer]

Pheer, who the fuck are you? Wait.. Who the fuck cares? Go to hell with your opinions or tell them to someone who gives a shit.

Holy fuck youre full on raging now. I think the 2 weeks off will do you some good. If you live somewhere where its snowing right now you might want to go outside naked and cool off before you have an aneurysm.

[cyryllis]

we just did a joint raid with europa last week iirc

[Frieza_Prexus]

actually a manager is not responsible for his/her employee's actions. That is why when employees fuck up they are fired and replaced

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respondeat_superior

[Eccezan]

people who cheat and exploit on an emulator server are scumbags. what is hard to understand about that

if youre number 1 motivating factor for raiding on p99 is to cockblock taken, europa, divinity then you are a scumbag.

i think that is fair to say

Weve joint raided 3 times with Azure Guard and Europa in the past week. Again, english, learn it.

[Godefroi]

We will enjoy the bans, while you can enjoy pretending your opinion matters. Have fun with your Tranix kills.

This is exactly why you are the worst, besides being filthy cheaters, you also treat other people like shit. You are a disgrace. get the fuck outta here.

[Yinikren]

Lol, ecc, you're silly. Take some sleep aid and lay down for a few hours, you'll get over it eventually. I know losing pixels is hard but, ya know, gotta start somewhere with not being a complete ass on this server.

[Yinikren]

You are a disgrace. get the fuck outta here.

Truer words were never spoken.

[Eccezan]

This is exactly why you are the worst, besides being filthy cheaters, you also treat other people like shit. You are a disgrace. get the fuck outta here.

Lol, hey dumb ass, do you even play still? I imagine you will log on for free loots in your rotation. Oh how the mighty IB have fallen. Wonder if we can get Eashan back in here now that IB is finally going to get a few mobs again, in rotation.

[Eccezan]

83 accounts in TMO. you can say it was a few people responsible for most of this. and maybe that is true. But these "resent events" along with the previous cheating TMO has been punished for (<--- proof ) i think most of the servers public dont believe much of what you have to say anymore. i think it is fair to say believe there is some conspiracy going on within TMO and its leadership.

No longer responding to you after this since I now believe you are "special." smh

Susvain = Apostle

[Godefroi]

If you wanted TMO to change our raid scene approach, you could have asked and we would have been open to any ideas.


I am bound outside VP and will train repeatedly any guild entering VP until I eventually ding 59 or even 58.

get the fuck outta here with your propaganda Zeelot. When FE formed you've had "talks" with FE and all you answered for VP was training. I guess posting about it on the forums wasn't smart.

[Pheer]

Eccezan confirmed still mentally living in some kind of dystopian fantasy world where your social class is determined by how many dragons you slay a week.

[Millburn]

All I gotta say is this week is gonna be forum sig quotes gold

[Widan]

I'm confused, does this Eccezan guy really lack this much self awareness? Or is this his last hurrah before he's banned permanently?

[Eccezan]

get the fuck outta here with your propaganda Zeelot. When FE formed you've had "talks" with FE and all you answered for VP was training. I guess posting about it on the forums wasn't smart.

QQ more.

[Yinikren]

We were right, so we were told to QQ.

The first step of acceptance is denial. You can join in on the mob rotation when you guys get out of time out.

[Eccezan]

We were right, so we were told to QQ.

The first step of acceptance is denial. You can join in on the mob rotation when you guys get out of time out.

If this server goes full mob rotation, there will be a steep decline in the population of hardcores that play as well as any competition involved in getting mobs. But maybe that is what Rogean wants. And if it is, then so be it.

Hate to break it to you, but if you want free mobs and loot served up every week in order, go play WoW. THEY HAVE INSTANCES!

[Widan]

If this server goes full mob rotation, there will be a steep decline in the population of hardcores that play as well as any competition involved in getting mobs.

This sounds perfect actually. I know myself and some of my friends would definitely play here again if that were the case.

[Obito]

If this server goes full mob rotation, there will be a steep decline in the population of hardcores that play as well as any competition involved in getting mobs. But maybe that is what Rogean wants. And if it is, then so be it.

Hate to break it to you, but if you want free mobs and loot served up every week in order, go play WoW. THEY HAVE INSTANCES!

Will you and your friends be the first to go, please respond.

[Autotune]

Will you and your friends be the first to go, please say respond.

Respond

[SirAlvarex]

If this server goes full mob rotation, there will be a steep decline in the population of hardcores that play as well as any competition involved in getting mobs. But maybe that is what Rogean wants. And if it is, then so be it.

Hate to break it to you, but if you want free mobs and loot served up every week in order, go play WoW. THEY HAVE INSTANCES!

I think you just sold 95% of the population on this idea.

[Pheer]

If this server goes full mob rotation, there will be a steep decline in the population of hardcores that play as well as any competition involved in getting mobs. But maybe that is what Rogean wants. And if it is, then so be it.

Hate to break it to you, but if you want free mobs and loot served up every week in order, go play WoW. THEY HAVE INSTANCES!

If you're saying youll quit the server if a mob rotation is implemented then I think I have to support it now. This may literally be the only thing that could ever get me to support a full on 0 competition rotation.

[Obito]

Respond

You got me before the edit :(

[Eccezan]

You guys are pathetic. Going to bed.

[Prismaticshop]

TMO is banned and will possibly get disbanded, what's wrong with this Eccezan dude seriously ? What a shame...You're a shame to this project.

[Vosooth316]

If this server goes full mob rotation, there will be a steep decline in the population of hardcores that play as well as any competition involved in getting mobs. But maybe that is what Rogean wants. And if it is, then so be it.

Hate to break it to you, but if you want free mobs and loot served up every week in order, go play WoW. THEY HAVE INSTANCES!

Gotta love Eccezan. he ignores people who speak truth or calls him out on his scumbagery.

"The hardcore" raiders? How many is that...well say...90% of TMO/FE/IB? I dont think that majority will go away.

[Obito]

You guys are pathetic. Going to bed.

http://a.wattpad.net/cover/632392-256-kbfdaff65.jpg

[Lune]

This is a pretty poor attempt at damage control, Zeelot. Remarkably, you don't admit fault anywhere in your post... instead it's a treatise on why TMO has been victimized.

Yep, you've been victimized by cheaters! How could they betray you like that? ...so systematically? How could those bastards continually display a pattern of behavior so aberrant that it leads to an explicit reprimand by the staff!? Traitors!

And then the staff have to guts to punish your guild!? Such persecution. So holocaust.

Instead of taking one bit of responsibility for anything that has happened, you find other things to blame.

You probably should have had Xasten make this thread; it would have gone over better were it not written by a member of TMO's sociopathic core.

[Pheer]

Eccezan's posts slowly changing in tone from anger to depression, hes flying through the stages even faster than I thought he would

[Autotune]

You got me before the edit :(

Actually, you edited before I could quote it properly. I'm just an evil bastard and unfixed it again lol. :D

[Yinikren]

Xasten for TMO president. and poor Ecc.. rofl, doesn't understand the concept of "the needs of many outweigh the needs of the few."

Holy shit, your personality complex now explains a lot to me. I know, I know, it is IMPOSSIBLE to fathom a world where you don't get every mob.

[Obito]

Actually, you edited before I could quote it properly. I'm just an evil bastard and unfixed it again lol. :D

A+ for effort. ;)

[Lazie]

If this server goes full mob rotation, there will be a steep decline in the population of hardcores that play as well as any competition involved in getting mobs. But maybe that is what Rogean wants. And if it is, then so be it.

Hate to break it to you, but if you want free mobs and loot served up every week in order, go play WoW. THEY HAVE INSTANCES!

Read this post people it is from an OFFICER in TMO. This is the mentality that is rare on the server. What is surprising is that he doesn't realize that his mentality is in the minority.

What is sad Eccezan is the environment you and a few in your guild maintains on this server IS WORSE than WoW raiding. That is the truly sad part about it because quite a few of us hated what WoW offered when compared to classic EQ. Yet thanks to you and yours you have completely bastardized what EQ Classic was with the current way your guild forces people to raid. Now all the blame doesn't lay on TMO's shoulders. It was perpetuated by several guilds over the history of the server. However, keeping it the way it is now is completely on the shoulders of TMO. It is time to change and if that means some hardcore players leave... GOOD. That means more players will return to enjoy the server and everything it has to offer.

[Yinikren]

Any number of casuals we may gain, or even if we get none at all, is better for the health of this server then you hardcores who do nothing but log on to grief other people off.

[Tasslehofp99]

You guys are pathetic. :mad::mad::mad: Going to bed. :(:(:(

Eccezan's posts slowly changing in tone from anger to depression, hes flying through the stages even faster than I thought he would

yup, lol...shits hilarious

[Tann]

I don't think casual is the correct term for this game, everything about this game is hardcore compared to WoW/Rift/GW1&2/SWTOR/etc..

leveling 1-10 on a troll or iksar hybrid is 10x more hardcore then 1-90 in WoW.

[Bossman]

I think a pure rotation on all mobs would suck. There needs to be something to keep people going other than "well if I wait my turn I'll get it". So maybe you put a rotation on only certain mobs and make VS/Trak/VP FFA or something. A happy medium would best serve the population as a whole.

[Mandalore93]

Collective TMO reaction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YersIyzsOpc

[Mandalore93]

Or maybe this one, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNOnepGHvj0

[uygi]

Zeelot, I just remembered somebody caught cheating in TMO. It was a long time ago... I believe it was actually the last time Rogean delivered a raid suspension, which he almost never does. It was this dark elf shadowknight named Zeelot who [accidentialy?] used his PBAE nuke to break all of the opposing guild's mezzes.

Disclaimer: I like Zeelot, he's cool and I've known him for a long time, but his anti-cheating doctrine is definitely full of crap and always has been.

[Itap]

A good leader always makes excuses for his followers

[finalgrunt]

Recent Exploit

If you wanted TMO to change our raid scene approach, you could have asked and we would have been open to any ideas. It seems more like you just want TMO to disband or be severely hurt. This has only been an issue since the return of the players who left for EQ mac. I hope we can resolve this and you will remove the post attacking TMO for a few individuals actions.

Thanks

Hello,

I would like to react to this part. I will discuss this as a player who tried to get an agreement from the top guilds to allow smaller guilds to be left content 1 week every 9 or 10 to compete at their level. This has got nothing to do with the guild I'm affiliated with, as it was a personal act.

The other top guild back then had agreed to it to some extent (we had a list of non top priority targets to be left, which was better than nothing). When I contacted you to reach for an agreement, you just answered me that your guild didn't want this, so it wouldn't happen, end of story. No discussion, no concessions. Nothing.

So please, could you acknowledge that your guild may not be as open to new ideas to improve the raid scene as you are trying to display here? If giving away a subset of targets for 1 week to smaller guilds every 9 or 10 is too much to ask, I am not surprised to see Rogean's comment on the front page about sharing the experience. Thanks Rogean for these words, as they mean a lot!

As for you Zeelot, I look forward for you to being a bit (read much) more honest, thanks.

[Lisset]

actually a manager is not responsible for his/her employee's actions. That is why when employees fuck up they are fired and replaced

I've personally seen multiple departments CLEANED OUT, including the managers when there has been group malfeasance and not just one company either.

In fact, in 2 other cases that I have personal knowledge of, the individual responsible AND the manager were fired when corruption took place over a long period. The reason in both cases was the same: the manager should have known.

So, talk out your ass some more. We are waiting.

[Clark]

Looks to me that Rogean was giving you reasons why the staff came to the decision they came to. They included.

A member who was part of RMT.

Multiple members involved in exploiting.

A member who was ninja looting items.(This member has also been suspended a few times and kept in the guild)

He then mentioned how the same guild who were harboring these members also continues to cause problems in the end game. Everyone wants to work together to make the raid scene better when discussions are brought up... Except TMO. Their members are consistently the ones who are vocal about not making changes that better the server. Simply because they want to continue to gear up multiple alts and for some they enjoy keeping things from other people. It seems to give them a sort of feeling of superiority that is borderline insane.

Guilds on this server grow and progress pretty consistently until the reach a point where they are competing with your guild Zeelot. Then 2 things happen when they become a threat. Your guild members flame them in OOC/Shout and in rants and flames on these forums. You publicly as a guild leader rarely say anything and just let it happen. You personally have the power to help make this server a better place going forward Zeelot as the leader of TMO. Stop trying to figure out ways to subjugate people and start trying to figure out ways to play nice with them.

[Clark]

I see why TMO wasn't posting in the RnF threads, they were regrouping privately to all in on one thread

I lol at how you guys are STILL talking mad shit and throwing a tantrum because nobody is willing to give you the benefit of the doubt

You guys could have taken the hit and apologized to the server, promised to get your guild more in line etc., but instead you make a thread acting like victims and like Rogean has a personal vendetta against you. Maybe if you guys would cut out this "we can do no wrong" bullshit and take responsibility for once in your lives, people would actually sympathize a little bit. Imagine if this shit had happened in IB or FE, TMO trolls would be talking about it for 4 more years and you expect everyone else to just take your word that you're all innocent and drop the subject? Get fucking real.

[Nizzarr]

Hah, good work Rogean! So how many plats did these 2 TMO members made with this cheat?

I'm sure it must be like over a million plats right ?

RIGHT?

Seriously who the fuck is working on Velious... this server is really a joke

not even sure if what?

serious cant be.

So TMO is trying to spin that only 2 players had access to 86 accounts and thats it?

I'm not buying this shit

[Wudan]

Eccezan so butthurt its amazing to watch lol

ya all had it coming. We all know the leaders/officers were in on it, it was a guild programm, not actions of couple black sheeps. Sharing 83 aacounts? really? You bought all these for duped plat and now you are using them to cockblock the raid scene.

Ban them all! Disband TMO! Wipe them of the earth like a scum they are.

/christmas

[Weekapaug]

When I say what I'm about to say I'm not sticking up for TMO....The torches and pitchforks are out on the parts of so many for good reason. When you are the top guild on a server (the only real classic server in existence) for so long AND make a point of rat bastard cockblocking every other raid capable guild for years (plural) from content you haven't needed for years (plural) to the point where people understand when they roll certain classes they do so with the understanding that if they ever want their epics years (plural) after kunark came out that they will have to buy pieces from you AND you are singlehandedly responsible for new players being advised to abandon all hopes of raiding AND you allow your members to strut around and gloat about this like complete nutsacks, you are the epitome of naive to think the whole world isn't going to demand your balls on a plate when given half an excuse like this. And pretty fucking whiney on top of it. Your "some people have more time and different life priorites" plea isn't going to gain you a whole lot of sympathy from people with RL responsibilities who also put inordinate amounts of time and dedication into playing here but have been completely shut out of the raid game because of the way you, as a group, have chosen to comport yourselves here. For years (plural).

The short non-run on version of that: You behaved badly and now your chickens are coming home to roost. Rest assured, OJ Simpson isn't sitting in jail for 30 years just because he tried to steal back his stuff from a sleezy junk dealer. He got the book thrown at him for that because he got away with murder, acted like an asshole for years after, then gave somebody an excuse to get him in a courtroom again. And there isn't a living soul on the planet that loses a moment's sleep over it. That's what happens when you paint a big target on yourself.

And I applaud Rogean and the staff for being all over this. We've all known for years that the remaining "cesspool" aspects of playing here pretty much starts at the top and trickles down in its various forms.Reading between the lines of the announcement, it sounds like they've finally just had enough, in general. If that's truly the case I, like many others, feel they are going pretty easy on you guys, honestly.

BUT, I find myself seriously concerned with how they went about this. People can speculate all they want, but no one really knows to what extent the guild knew about the exploiting and RMTing. I don't like people getting strung up based on circumstantial evidence and, to me, it seems a bit heavy handed to ban any account those players simply logged into without some evidence that those accounts were involved in or benefited from the exploits. My understanding is that cash can be tracked...I sincerely hope that during the temp ban they will be investigating exactly which accounts were involved and which weren't. Banning an account simply because it was logged into on an IP because that IP was also used by a cheater at some other point is throwing a very big and indiscriminate net. And sets a really bad precident. Yes, I'm aware of being responsible for account info, but if an account was never used for cheating and did not benefit from cheating, then it should never be banned, IMO. Froth for blood all you want, but bullshit is still bullshit.

There have been a lot of times I haven't envied the server staff, but sorting this out tops them all.

[quido]

What's so difficult to understand? The exploits were committed by 2 people on a limited number of accounts. Nobody else knew about the exploits. These two people logged a lot of different people's accounts in their time in the guild, and now every account they've ever logged is suspended or banned despite never exploiting on most of these accounts. Some of the accounts were only logged by the offenders a single time.

[Nizzarr]

What's so difficult to understand? The exploits were committed by 2 people on a limited number of accounts. Nobody else knew about the exploits. These two people logged a lot of different people's accounts in their time in the guild, and now every account they've ever logged is suspended or banned despite never exploiting on most of these accounts. Some of the accounts were only logged by the offenders a single time.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif

[khanable]

limited number of accounts.

lol

[Yinikren]

Stop talking Jeremy, we stopped believing you at "buut guise we didn't know''


Every one of you deserves this punishment for all the shit you pull to swing the raid scene to your benefit.

Good night.

[heazels]

What's so difficult to understand? The exploits were committed by 2 people on a limited number of accounts. Nobody else knew about the exploits. These two people logged a lot of different people's accounts in their time in the guild, and now every account they've ever logged is suspended or banned despite never exploiting on most of these accounts. Some of the accounts were only logged by the offenders a single time.

I swear all I did was give the guy plat and he gave me a character. Why should that character get banned for something he did? I mean it wasnt the class/race/sex combo I woulda picked, but the extra character helped the guild. Why would I turn it down? I mean I paid him right? wth, unban my char

[Itap]

Jeremy, please stop pretending like what your guild mates did is something so minuscule.

If this were IBFE except after C, you would be having a field day

[Wudan]

What's so difficult to understand? The exploits were committed by 2 people on a limited number of accounts. Nobody else knew about the exploits. These two people logged a lot of different people's accounts in their time in the guild, and now every account they've ever logged is suspended or banned despite never exploiting on most of these accounts. Some of the accounts were only logged by the offenders a single time.

GTFO, no one wants to hear your lies and excuses. Ban this cheater!

[quido]

I not saying anything is minuscule - I'm appalled at what two people I liked and trusted have done. They fully deserve their punishment. However, as far as I know, nobody knew about it or benefited from it aside from the two perpetrators. To hold every owner of every account they ever logged (even just one time) accountable for their actions is unfair in my opinion (when someone is banned for MQ they don't ban every account the person ever logged - they ban the ones on which the hacks were used), but I can see where the staff is coming from.

[Brut]

If you wanted TMO to change our raid scene approach, you could have asked and we would have been open to any ideas.
Eh, think the last time a discussion was supposed to happen some non-officers showed up to represent TMO, asked "where's velious?" and walked out.

[Tasslehofp99]

Eh, think the last time a discussion was supposed to happen some non-officers showed up to represent TMO, asked "where's velious?" and walked out.

I was going to say that too!

[Purdee]

Get a life. lol

oh the irony....

[Prismaticshop]

not even sure if what?

serious cant be.

So TMO is trying to spin that only 2 players had access to 86 accounts and thats it?

I'm not buying this shit

No one is, but watch them spining is funny enough to have them carry on.

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/jon-stewart-popcorn.gif

[Nuggie]

First in response to the OP. In my line of work leaders who turn a blind eye to deviations in certain policies get prosecuted by government departments and go to prison. Simply not knowing of an act isn't an alibi.

As to the current raiding situation: when lanys merged with 7th hammer we from lanys had a hell of an eye opener. We came from a server, much like this one, where one guild ruled and a bunch of smaller guilds got the table scraps. 7th hammer had I think 5 guilds that were able to compete for raid mobs. It was a much "healthier" raid scene. Perhaps TMO splitting themselves into two or more guilds would make for a more enjoyable raid scene for themselves and everyone else.

[BurgyK]

Someone quick! Get the suicide hotline number on here

[Tanthallas]

Eh, think the last time a discussion was supposed to happen some non-officers showed up to represent TMO, asked "where's velious?" and walked out.

Worst.

[Barkingturtle]

What's so difficult to understand? The exploits were committed by 2 people on a limited number of accounts. Nobody else knew about the exploits. These two people logged a lot of different people's accounts in their time in the guild, and now every account they've ever logged is suspended or banned despite never exploiting on most of these accounts. Some of the accounts were only logged by the offenders a single time.

Quit sharing accounts. It isn't classic for two guys to have access to 86 accounts.

I mean, my buddy sells meth but I don't know it. If I let him borrow my car and he gets stopped by the police, my car is going to the impound. This shit is really simple. Ban them all.

[Barkingturtle]

Failure to ban these accounts sets the precedent that if you want to cheat and receive minimal discipline for your bad acts, just involve as many accounts as possible. Actually, that's kinda already been the established precedent for awhile, I think.

[Daldolma]

no good excuse for not banning the accounts imo

it has been CLEARLY set forth as a server rule that if you share info, you are responsible for the actions of anyone who logs into your account

if 84 people were genuinely innocent (HIGHLY doubtful) but dumb enough to trust two exploiters, then 84 people sacrificed their accounts for froovy's sins

more likely, 2 prominent members without plausible deniability are taking the fall for an exploit that was rampant and well-known

[quido]

it has been CLEARLY set forth as a server rule that if you share info, you are responsible for the actions of anyone who logs into your account

their actions while on your account, not while on other accounts a year ago =P this is a new expectation

[Tasslehofp99]

no good excuse for not banning the accounts imo

it has been CLEARLY set forth as a server rule that if you share info, you are responsible for the actions of anyone who logs into your account

if 84 people were genuinely innocent (HIGHLY doubtful) but dumb enough to trust two exploiters, then 84 people sacrificed their accounts for froovy's sins

more likely, 2 prominent members without plausible deniability are taking the fall for an exploit that was rampant and well-known

the old lee Harvey Oswald trick

[Ehna Ne'Nah]

It's been two years since these guys shit on us without worrying about rules and other people.
Today, they try to make us believe that the involvement of 86 accounts in the same guild is an unfortunate incident and that nobody knew (after all it's christmas).

Not to mention the RMT ... It should be explained to me one day what you can buy in EQ with milions and millions plats ... but dollards ...

[heazels]

their actions while on your account, not while on other accounts a year ago =P this is a new expectation

again i say, it is naive to think that 86 accounts were banned based on a minor event 1 year ago. Naive, like a little baby, that just became a blue person in the avatar movie

[quido]

http://wiki.project1999.com/index.php/Fungus_Covered_Great_Staff

Going price is about 3 million.

[Barkingturtle]

their actions while on your account, not while on other accounts a year ago =P this is a new expectation

On a free server, where the only identifying information is your account name and password, sharing your account with someone else effectively means it's just that: shared. It is no longer solely your account. It is both of yours. Should we not ban the accounts of cheaters? If a duper has 86 accounts, should we just ban one?

[Daldolma]

their actions while on your account, not while on other accounts a year ago =P this is a new expectation

any account that was logged on by the exploiting IP since they were first found to be exploiting should be banned

anything before should be irrelevant. simple enough.

whether or not they actually exploited from every account in question is immaterial. if i dupe 100 million plat on one account, but play 15 others, you're going to just ban the duping account while i go on my merry way?

newp

[Daldolma]

On a free server, where the only identifying information is your account name and password, sharing your account with someone else effectively means it's just that: shared. It is no longer solely your account. It is both of yours. Should we not ban the accounts of cheaters? If a duper has 86 accounts, should we just ban one?

^ what he said

[Vaildez]

What's so difficult to understand? The exploits were committed by 2 people on a limited number of accounts. Nobody else knew about the exploits. These two people logged a lot of different people's accounts in their time in the guild, and now every account they've ever logged is suspended or banned despite never exploiting on most of these accounts. Some of the accounts were only logged by the offenders a single time.

2 people with access to 86 accounts exploiting and nobody else in TMO's know it....Yea fucking right..lol

[DrKvothe]

Has anyone confirmed that the exploits were not actually performed on the 84 other accounts, and that the exploiters just moved goods through these accounts?

That seems to be the version of the story that some here want us to believe, but that doesn't match the GM's announcement imo.

[quido]

Most of that access was temporary, like a "hey will you log my Ranger to accept a rez please?" sort of situation. I want nothing to do with any cheater, nor does the rest of my guild.

[heazels]

Has anyone confirmed that the exploits were not actually performed on the 84 other accounts, and that the exploiters just moved goods through these accounts?

That seems to be the version of the story that some here want us to believe, but that doesn't match the GM's announcement imo.

which points to TMO knowing more than what they are announcing. Like 86 accounts purchased/farmed up with Duped plat.

[Vaildez]

Most of that access was temporary, like a "hey will you log my Ranger to accept a rez please?" sort of situation. I want nothing to do with any cheater, nor does the rest of my guild.

Maybe you need some better recruiting standards? Your guild continues to build a worse and worse rep for exploiters and douchebaggery.

[heazels]

Most of that access was temporary, like a "hey will you log my Ranger to accept a rez please?" sort of situation. I want nothing to do with any cheater, nor does the rest of my guild.

If i had 86 accounts id tell you to log in some, kill some mobs, rez me, port me around too.

[khanable]

So cheater shit aside, how does jeremy/TMO feel about the raid etiquette every other guild has put forth for the next two weeks?

[Daldolma]

Most of that access was temporary, like a "hey will you log my Ranger to accept a rez please?" sort of situation. I want nothing to do with any cheater, nor does the rest of my guild.

Let's pretend instead of exploiting, they just straight up stole the account. Someone trusted them with the info, just to log in for a rez, and they stripped the account, sac'd it down to 46, and transferred the plat to a mule.

What's the GM response? Nothing. You don't get your plat back, you don't get your levels back, you don't get shit. Why? Because you assumed the risk. Don't want your account in trouble? Don't share your info.

There's no reason this should be treated differently.

It's also obviously ridiculous to expect anyone to believe that 84 of these accounts were only logged in one time for a 2-minute rez session. You're taking the extreme outlier of crappy luck and trying to make it the standard.

[quido]

If people were complicit in exploiting, I would advocate permabanning them also. Nobody was, though. The non-exploiters who got hit the hardest were those I considered to be the most beyond reproach - they just happened to be the most trusting. I feel bad that some people are facing permabans for something they knew nothing about.

[BurgyK]

Need help? In the U.S., call 1-800-273-8255
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
Remember guys! It's just a game

[Daldolma]

If people were complicit in exploiting, I would advocate permabanning them also. Nobody was, though. The non-exploiters who got hit the hardest were those I considered to be the most beyond reproach - they just happened to be the most trusting. I feel bad that some people are facing permabans for something they knew nothing about.

You shouldn't. You should stop being naive enough to believe they knew nothing about it. That's not a fact, it's an unfounded claim from a banned player. It is impossible to know whether or not a lot of these people knew. It's pretty likely that at least some of their pals knew what they were doing.

[Ehna Ne'Nah]

Most of that access was temporary, like a "hey will you log my Ranger to accept a rez please?" sort of situation. I want nothing to do with any cheater, nor does the rest of my guild.

You must have the bigger pair of balls around to write this, so big that it blocks you wiew, but not ours.

Only thing u'll let in this server is bad memories. Place to future.

Btw, does guido assezan accounts ect are involved in the 86 winners ?

[kbnexus]

You shouldn't. You should stop being naive enough to believe they knew nothing about it. That's not a fact, it's an unfounded claim from a banned player. It is impossible to know whether or not a lot of these people knew. It's pretty likely that at least some of their pals knew what they were doing.

What facts do you have? GM's even said its likely most of the people are banned unfairly. I know what you want to BELIEVE. But its just belief.

[Loke]

If people were complicit in exploiting, I would advocate permabanning them also. Nobody was, though. The non-exploiters who got hit the hardest were those I considered to be the most beyond reproach - they just happened to be the most trusting. I feel bad that some people are facing permabans for something they knew nothing about.

Kind of like how you advocated for a permaban when you got caught 2 boxing in LGuk? Oh, wait... Nm.

[nalkin]

Here is my question. The other accounts that were accessed by the cheaters and banned... did any cheating occur on those accounts or were they banned because the cheaters logged in on them? If cheating occurred on them they should be banned if cheating did not occur on them they shouldn't, imo.

[kbnexus]

So cheater shit aside, how does jeremy/TMO feel about the raid etiquette every other guild has put forth for the next two weeks?

Its a pretty bad idea. It will work tho cause its for 2 weeks. That plan isnt a long-term solution in the slightest. Its just a PR stunt.

[quido]

Here is my question. The other accounts that were accessed by the cheaters and banned... did any cheating occur on those accounts or were they banned because the cheaters logged in on them? If cheating occurred on them they should be banned if cheating did not occur on them they shouldn't, imo.

There were only a handful of accounts that were used to perform the exploit, however, the exploiters have logged into 106 different accounts in total.

Every account they've ever logged into was banned. Most were never exploited on.

[quido]

Kind of like how you advocated for a permaban when you got caught 2 boxing in LGuk? Oh, wait... Nm.

Never happened. I seem to remember you being deleveled though!

[sanforce]

Here is my question. The other accounts that were accessed by the cheaters and banned... did any cheating occur on those accounts or were they banned because the cheaters logged in on them? If cheating occurred on them they should be banned if cheating did not occur on them they shouldn't, imo.

Any account the 2 cheaters ever logged into were banned, based off of ip address alone. I'm willing to bet 95% of these accounts never had duping activity, they were just brought into this mess bc the offenders logged on at some point. It's going to come down to the number of times the offenders logged on, most accounts will be unbanned.

As far as the raid rules? Everything will be spilt by 2 guilds over time, and VP is carebear.

[Barkingturtle]

If people were complicit in exploiting, I would advocate permabanning them also. Nobody was, though. The non-exploiters who got hit the hardest were those I considered to be the most beyond reproach - they just happened to be the most trusting. I feel bad that some people are facing permabans for something they knew nothing about.

Ignorance is no excuse.

See how much work your guild has created for the staff? The staff now has to go around investigating 86 accounts because your guild couldn't keep their info to themselves. Your guild has benefited massively from the ability to share accounts, and this is the risk associated with that strategy.

And still, there is no remorse from TMO except toward its own membership. Nothing to be sorry about except that you got caught. Only obstinate defiance.

[Dirkus]

Wake Eccezan up, his PR was more entertaining.

[heazels]

Any account the 2 cheaters ever logged into were banned, based off of ip address alone. I'm willing to bet 95% of these accounts never had duping activity, they were just brought into this mess bc the offenders logged on at some point. It's going to come down to the number of times the offenders logged on, most accounts will be unbanned.

As far as the raid rules? Everything will be spilt by 2 guilds over time, and VP is carebear.

all they had to do was log into once to make sure the login/password was good before passing it on to the guild to use. Maybe sold them for pp/dkp, maybe gave the accounts away, who knows

[Loke]

Never happened. I seem to remember you being deleveled though!

So you're saying you weren't suspended back before Kunark for two boxing in LGuk? Because I'm pretty sure a lot of people remember that, even if you were able to spin your way out of it much like you're trying to do now.

As far as my suspension, at least I admit to it and didn't come on here trying to play the victim.

In all honesty, I'm mostly just giving you shit and don't think you guys should be handed permabans. I do think a punishment similar to the SEQ thing is appropriate (possible loss of levels / loss of all platinum on the accounts). I just think it is hilarious that you guys sound exactly like 1/2 the people who got caught with SEQ, but when they were saying it you were screaming "burn the witch".

[Daldolma]

What facts do you have? GM's even said its likely most of the people are banned unfairly. I know what you want to BELIEVE. But its just belief.

Fact: 86 accounts were logged in by IPs that were found exploiting.

Belief: Some of those people did not know the actions of the people they gave their account information to.

I suggest we make our decisions based on facts. How about you?

[Ella`Ella]

Its a pretty bad idea. It will work tho cause its for 2 weeks. That plan isnt a long-term solution in the slightest. Its just a PR stunt.

Last night I reached out to Zeelot to welcome him in talks on how make the raid scene a more enjoyable experience for not only FE/IB and TMO but other members of our community as well. The only thing restricting this gesture of goodwill is your narrow mindset of a stranglehold.

It's well within my position on this server to follow your footsteps and put every raid target on lockdown for the next two weeks, however I'd rather use these unfortunate circumstances that have befallen your guild to make something positive come about.

As part of TMO's leadership, you can use this time to consider how you'd like to move forward upon your return.

[quido]

So you're saying you weren't suspended back before Kunark for two boxing in LGuk?

That's right, I wasn't!

[Vaildez]

Every account they've ever logged into was banned. Most were never exploited on.

How could you possibly know this?

[Lammy]

Here is my question. The other accounts that were accessed by the cheaters and banned... did any cheating occur on those accounts or were they banned because the cheaters logged in on them? If cheating occurred on them they should be banned if cheating did not occur on them they shouldn't, imo.

The answer to your question is this. If Froovys/internodes IP placed them logging into any account at any point in the history of their existence, those accounts were flagged and banned. This done not mean any of these account were associated with the exploits.

Here's an example.

"Hey Froovy, can you log on my account to help me do a rez?"

Banned.

"Hey Froovy, can you log on my account to help me do a port?"

Banned.

"Hey Froovy, can you help run my character somewhere?"

Banned.



Sharing accounts in this fashion happens a lot, and isn't against the rules. This is Rogaens server, and I respect that. I even donate financially to the server. But at the end of the day, our Guilds name and members as a whole are being slandered over the unknown actions of a handful of people.

Rogaens response to this is obviously a very emotional one. He is upset about more than just the duping that occurred, and it shows in how this was handled. In the end, this server is Rogaens Project, and he is law. However, outside the competitive nature of the raid scene, I think that it is very important for the general population to know that TMO as a whole, is a great group of fair and honest players.

I personally couldn't list the amount of items I've given away to new players. I couldn't document the amount of hours I've spent offering out damage shields at EC tunnel for new players to enjoy. I've always stopped and med buffs/damage shields when I pass a low level player without them asking. I've spent time in lower end zones just chatting with the new players and finding out how they're enjoying themselves. I've always offered help to anyone on the forums whether I know them or not. And I KNOW that there are many members of TMO that do the same.

I hope the general hate and animosity of the community here towards TMO is just lemming behavior and/or trolls, because it would be disappointing to hear that this is the genuine, overall perception of TMO as a whole.

[quido]

How could you possibly know this?

Aside from knowing it without being told, I know this because it's what Rogean said.

[diplo]

INTERNODE!!! Nooooooooo...he used to be a good pal of mine :(

[sanforce]

all they had to do was log into once to make sure the login/password was good before passing it on to the guild to use. Maybe sold them for pp/dkp, maybe gave the accounts away, who knows

These aren't bought accounts in question. Many mains and primary alts that were logged on because these guys were trusted members. It is their fault for trusting these people with their account info, but no duping happened on most of these accounts. That's why the GMs said "2" offenders had abused this exploit, they obviously have logs of the incidents.

[Ella`Ella]

it would be disappointing to hear that this is the genuine, overall perception of TMO as a whole.

It is.

[Tasslehofp99]

INTERNODE!!! Nooooooooo...he used to be a good pal of mine :(

Surprised neither him or froovy have come forward and said anything, honestly.

[Deanob]

whole lot of QQ
not enough PEW PEW

[Loke]

Ok, I'm on board with the permabans now. Dudes can't even admit to shit that happened forever ago and no one cares about. If people who shared their accounts with people who used SEQ lost all their platinum and were deleveled to 52, at the very least so should people who shared their accounts with platinum exploiters. TMO can't even admit wrong doing when caught red handed - burn the witches!

[Barkingturtle]

I hope the general hate and animosity of the community here towards TMO is just lemming behavior and/or trolls, because it would be disappointing to hear that this is the genuine, overall perception of TMO as a whole.

Your guild has shit on the server for two years. Your members get caught cheating and no one apologizes.

I assure you the animus is both real and well-earned.

[Tecmos Deception]

Ignorance is no excuse.

See how much work your guild has created for the staff? The staff now has to go around investigating 86 accounts because your guild couldn't keep their info to themselves. Your guild has benefited massively from the ability to share accounts, and this is the risk associated with that strategy.

This post pleases me greatly.

[SniGlas]

Once executes a flurry of hugs on Fabben
Once executes a flurry of hugs on Fabben

[Ravager]

For as often Rogean himself issues reprimands, to say this is an emotional reaction on his part is pretty doubtful. When he explicitly says that there were talks of disbanding TMO altogether, it leads me to believe there's more to the story than the 2 confirmed cheaters.

Also, pretty sure there's a sticky somewhere saying don't share your account info with anyone. Sounds like a rule to me.

[Pheer]

I hope the general hate and animosity of the community here towards TMO is just lemming behavior and/or trolls, because it would be disappointing to hear that this is the genuine, overall perception of TMO as a whole.

ITT: TMO members still confused why so many people think theyre pieces of shit even though they allow retards like alarti and eccezan to run rampant on the forums and their members to act like little children in ooc/shout in game.

[myriverse]

The desire to have this handled privately screams of wanting shit covered up.

106 accounts x 8 characters per account x 2 feet per character = a whole lot of feet of bullshit

You're not going to sell the idea that more people didn't know about this. So, I wouldn't even bother trying.

In pari delicto, bitches.

[Aaron]

I hope the general hate and animosity of the community here towards TMO is just lemming behavior and/or trolls, because it would be disappointing to hear that this is the genuine, overall perception of TMO as a whole.

Whatever, we will brush our shoulders off and come back in 2 weeks to continue to steal all your loot for 4th alts.

bitches

[Messianic]

I love how Zeelot leads the way by playing the victim and the rest of the TMO responses here follow that general template.

"Oh boo hoo we're just so singled out and victimized, the GMs hate us, wahh wahh"

[Desmo]

Ill admit that Froovy and Internode were some of our best members. Internode was the botb Ranger and showed skill and class on any character he was on. Guy was upstanding, professional, and at one time a duper. Froovy was kind, helpful and exemplified every quality you would want in a guildmate let alone an enchanter and at one time he was a duper, maybe he still is.
As for Sentenza and Crazyeyes, both of those guys are assholes but can be forgiven. Maybe not CE because i dont know who owns him now.
The Mystical Order is made up of good people willing to fight for the benefit of their Guild. Sometimes we come off as douchebags and nothing we can do will change that to the have-nots.
In Two Weeks I hope we are still alive and fighting.

Desmo

[Briac]

I have been on this server for years, enjoying reliving my past glory’s, spending what time I have as a grown adult to level my single character. It’s been a blast, but was has truly saddened and frustrated me over the years is viewing all these threads slagging each other off, RnF or not. Ladies and Gents, it’s a game most of us played 14 years ago, why are you still behaving like the kids you were then? Truly sad, I really do wonder what my non-gaming mates would say if they read some of these comments in these posts… ‘sad bastards’ comes to mind!

I don’t often post on these forums, but I do read them often. And this post today has urged me to post for once.

Zeelot I have heard you’re a good guy, and that goes for some TMO members too, but unfortunately not all of your members are the same. You have a chance to start something off and be remembered for something bigger then TMO, you could be known as the person that made this server truly great for the whole community.

All im asking that you kindly do is think about the community, and why this server was created. It was built by the community leaders for the community. You claim your guild only goes by the rules, and it’s these rules which make you horde end game content (which your mains do not need), which ultimately means the rest of the EQ loving community don’t get to see the end game they once did or never had the chance to do.

Please explain to me the reasons why TMO feel the need to monopolise content and not share with the community? It’s an emulated server meant for everyone to enjoy all aspect of the game.

Competition is certainly classic, by its very nature it is the way it was designed, but this doesn’t mean the community are not allowed to come to a gentleman’s agreement and share! I just cannot understand why it brings more joy to you and your guild mates to batphone all hours of the day to kill stuff that you don’t need, with a force so large in numbers that it means all content isn’t a challenge… where is the drive and motivation… it’s not really for items, nor is it for the challenge?

Take for example epics, I for one want to quest mine from start to finish, you know, to get that feeling of achievement which EQ was once all about, and it did a tremendous job of making you feel that way. I can 100% say every single player on this server felt this back on live at some point, whether it was finally killing Ambassador DVinn in CB, or getting your first bit of planar armour, to then clearing your first plane, killing your first dragon etc.

I certainly didn’t come to play classic EQ to get my feeling of achievement by buying the bits I need for my epic because a few guilds monopolise the content.. Far from it, I joined to relive my past adventures and get that feeling of achievement once more, and actually downing each and every mob in order to earn them. But alas I have a real life, and therefore have a lot less time on my hands now that im a grown adult. So as it stands on this server, the few are blocking the majority of the P1999 community in doing what was meant to be a project for everyone. Why in today’s day and age can I not as a semi casual player get a shot at 14 year old content?

The arguments based on more time put in = more rewards is very true in most things, including RL. So yes you do have a claim to do this content, you have earnt it, but why would you continue to prevent other guilds at enjoying content that you do not need, it’s just not logical except purely for greed and selfish reasons. That’s where I come back to the community, EQ is a community, ALL the top guilds need to act like one so we can all enjoy it, simple as that.

I for one hope the ‘less hardcore’ players with lives outside EQ are given the opportunity by the community to enjoy all the content that Rogean, Nilbog etc have provided. I also hope that the GM’s reflect on my post and have the strength and fortitude to stand fast in their commitment to making this server something for the entire community once more. And if needs be, enforce a method which ensures that all raid level guilds get a chance at all content, a chance to feel achievement once more, a chance to relive our misspent youth.

Merry Christmas

[Ravager]

I love how Zeelot leads the way by playing the victim and the rest of the TMO responses here follow that general template.

"Oh boo hoo we're just so singled out and victimized, the GMs hate us, wahh wahh"

Even better is how he titled his post to the same thing as Rogean's, perhaps in an effort to divert attention from the real story to his victim story. A mod should add Re: to the begining of this thread title, imo.

[Fountree]

Looking forward to a GM response to Zee's post here. Rogean calling out a guild in this manner has no precedent that I'm aware of - I understand the hammer coming down but I'm eagerly awaiting new details here... Is any more information available on the extent of the duping on Froovy/Internode or can logs be provided that show just how much they duped? Froovy has said it was a few platinum bars or something like that but who knows. Also wondering how many of those 86 accounts actually are confirmed using some sort of exploit or breaking server rules? I'd be curious. Personally, my accounts are intact because I never shared my info... but I'm very disappointed by all of this shit coming out.

[fastboy21]

my hatred for uber guilds in general goes far beyond any incidents involving TMO.

as far as I'm concerned, it wouldn't be classic for me without having uber guilds around to hate. so, i guess i should thank them for donating so much of their poop sock time to enhance my life on p1999.

it wouldn't be classic without you.

people have had accounts banned on p1999 for minor RMT offenses. i hope the staff treats the real offenders with the same type of rule enforcement.

[Barkingturtle]

The Mystical Order is made up of good people willing to fight for the benefit of their Guild.

It would be swell if some of those good people could quit being so self-interested and think about fighting just once for the benefit of the Server, instead.

[heartbrand]

Looking forward to a GM response to Zee's post here. Rogean calling out a guild in this manner has no precedent that I'm aware of - I understand the hammer coming down but I'm eagerly awaiting new details here... Is any more information available on the extent of the duping on Froovy/Internode or can logs be provided that show just how much they duped? Froovy has said it was a few platinum bars or something like that but who knows. Also wondering how many of those 86 accounts actually are confirmed using some sort of exploit or breaking server rules? I'd be curious.

You obviously have never played on red then

[Fountree]

You obviously have never played on red then

Heh, nope. Got a lvl 4 cleric on there I think but probably played on there a handful of hours total.

[Nlaar]

Looking forward to a GM response to Zee's post here. Rogean calling out a guild in this manner has no precedent that I'm aware of - I understand the hammer coming down but I'm eagerly awaiting new details here... Is any more information available on the extent of the duping on Froovy/Internode or can logs be provided that show just how much they duped? Froovy has said it was a few platinum bars or something like that but who knows. Also wondering how many of those 86 accounts actually are confirmed using some sort of exploit or breaking server rules? I'd be curious. Personally, my accounts are intact because I never shared my info... but I'm very disappointed by all of this shit coming out.

The sheer level of entitlement displayed in Z's post and this post is astonishing. This is not your server. Your guild is not P99. People are here for classic experience, not to have their guild's websites hacked and RL photos to taken to public forums or to be trolled in game (and in their real lives). Unreal.

[Fael]

In the past, any accounts involved in illegal activity got banned. This is the first time they have ever taken such measures as to ban every account that IP was ever connected to.

This is ex post facto decision making that, thankfully, we have the due process clause to protect us from in real life. This is their server. They can do what they want. I get that. Doesn't make it right.

To use the car analogy. This is equivalent to your friend selling meth, then driving your car without meth, then being caught with having sold meth the year before, and the police find out he drove your car a few times and they impound it.

A lot of people on here love what happened because they believe it benefits them. They ignore that Rogean basically already stated it was only 2 people. And the offense never occurred on these 86 accounts (which belong to probably 5-10 people).

You sheeple can believe what you want to believe about who knew what etc. Or that Rogean wouldn't take such sweeping action unless he had good cause. But the reality is they haven't provided any information on what was duped, how much, where it went etc. Froovy who acknowledges he'll never get his accounts back claims it was "less than he'd make in a night in howling stones."

Never mind all that. Praise and trust Rogean because he has taken unprecedented action to screw innocent people that you happen to dislike; because he had a random epiphany of this server being less competitive, where everyone can be spread Christmas cheer and good tidings to all--24/7. Oh and if we don't all just get along and love each other and share and live up to this nebulous new code of ethics, then we won't see velious. You can't make this stuff up.

Merry Christmas and see you in two weeks,

Dolic

[heazels]

In the past, any accounts involved in illegal activity got banned. This is the first time they have ever taken such measures as to ban every account that IP was ever connected to.

This is ex post facto decision making that, thankfully, we have the due process clause to protect us from in real life. This is their server. They can do what they want. I get that. Doesn't make it right.

To use the car analogy. This is equivalent to your friend selling meth, then driving your car without meth, then being caught with having sold meth the year before, and the police find out he drove your car a few times and they impound it.

A lot of people on here love what happened because they believe it benefits them. They ignore that Rogean basically already stated it was only 2 people. And the offense never occurred on these 86 accounts (which belong to probably 5-10 people).

You sheeple can believe what you want to believe about who knew what etc. Or that Rogean wouldn't take such sweeping action unless he had good cause. But the reality is they haven't provided any information on what was duped, how much, where it went etc. Froovy who acknowledges he'll never get his accounts back claims it was "less than he'd make in a night in howling stones."

Never mind all that. Praise and trust Rogean because he has taken unprecedented action to screw innocent people that you happen to dislike; because he had a random epiphany of this server being less competitive, where everyone can be spread Christmas cheer and good tidings to all--24/7. Oh and if we don't all just get along and love each other and share and live up to this nebulous new code of ethics, then we won't see velious. You can't make this stuff up.

Merry Christmas and see you in two weeks,

Dolic

why do you guys keep trying to to say this happened a year ago? the gm's post makes it sound like it was yesterday. I guess your believing the dupers over what the gm's wrote ont he front page... I'd trust log files over the dupers.

[Tasslehofp99]

What about all the other past incidents in which rules were broken through exploiting, training, KS'ing, kiting raid mobs, etc? Do we just forget about those and act like this is the first time TMO has ever done something shady?


Give me a break guys, seriously.

[heazels]

platlord.com is empty because the duping just ended yesterday, not last year.

[Fountree]

The sheer level of entitlement displayed in Z's post and this post is astonishing. This is not your server. Your guild is not P99. People are here for classic experience, not to have their guild's websites hacked and RL photos to taken to public forums or to be trolled in game (and in their real lives). Unreal.

How is that entitled? There are rules for how things operate generally that's how the p99 community has historically worked. You just want TMO disbanded on this server, which is all fine and dandy I'm just curious how deep this went and the details on who was actually breaking the rules. And such a thing may or may not happen given the extent of what transpired.

[Barkingturtle]

To use the car analogy. This is equivalent to your friend selling meth, then driving your car without meth, then being caught with having sold meth the year before, and the police find out he drove your car a few times and they impound it.


When they catch him, he has copies of your keys. He has a duplicate title. How do we discern whose car it truly is? How do we prove it?

This is the risk inherent in sharing accounts.

[skipdog]

I know many on this server have had years of seething hatred for TMO and this was an early Christmas present for them. But personally I think if this happened to any other guild where accounts are commonly shared, people would be on their side.... and it could happen to any guild that shares accounts. There's not much you can do to prevent this kind of things except not sharing accounts at all. There is only so much trust you can build with other people in your MMO guild... there really isn't a way to tell if someone is doing something like this.

[Erati]

boooo hoooo but they only duped 10K ish!

thats barely duping guyz! how can u punish that


lol

[kbnexus]

When they catch him, he has copies of your keys. He has a duplicate title. How do we discern whose car it truly is? How do we prove it?

This is the risk inherent in sharing accounts.

Does he also have a ray gun?

Also, title issue dates are maintained in DMV records ;) Are you also going to say they he hacked the DMV databases too?

[Trax]

Z, I think it's time.

http://blogs.cio.com/sites/cio.com/files/u7727/BetterCallSaul-Banner-New-560.jpg

[kbnexus]

why do you guys keep trying to to say this happened a year ago? the gm's post makes it sound like it was yesterday. I guess your believing the dupers over what the gm's wrote ont he front page... I'd trust log files over the dupers.

GM's never said anything about a timeframe to the public. You are ASSUMing

[Barkingturtle]

I know many on this server have had years of seething hatred for TMO and this was an early Christmas present for them. But personally I think if this happened to any other guild where accounts are commonly shared, people would be on their side.... and it could happen to any guild that shares accounts. There's not much you can do to prevent this kind of things except not sharing accounts at all. There is only so much trust you can build with other people in your MMO guild... there really isn't a way to tell if someone is doing something like this.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else because I'm not a mind-reader like you, but I have no pity for anyone that shares accounts. It provides a leg-up from a competitive standpoint, and it is a risk one enters into knowingly. It should be known too that sharing your details could negate all the effort you've put in.

[heazels]

GM's never said anything about a timeframe to the public. You are ASSUMing

so your assuming 10k was duped a year ago and 86 accounts got banned today? sounds legit to me. i think not. Sounds like someone is smoking something hard

[Lazie]

GM's never said anything about a timeframe to the public. You are ASSUMing

And as usual you are deflecting. I see no remorse for any actions coming from TMO's camp. Only entitlement. It's sad and shocking that the majority of the preconceptions about the majority of the people in your guild is proving to be true in this thread.

[Tasslehofp99]

GM's never said anything about a timeframe to the public. You are ASSUMing

If we use a timeframe of about 2 years there are enough incidents involving tmo griefing other guilds, cheating/exploiting, training/kiting, among other things. Stop trying to act like TMO's whistle hasn't been dirty for years now, this ill-will the server has for TMO is the result of your guild's actions over an extended period of time. This just happens to be the first time your guild is being held fully accountable, and being made an example of.

[chief]

velious should be coming out sometime this week, COINCIDENCE?!?! hahaha

[Barkingturtle]

Does he also have a ray gun?

Also, title issue dates are maintained in DMV records ;) Are you also going to say they he hacked the DMV databases too?

Are you implying TMO's accounts were hacked?

Seems to me they gave away their claims to sole ownership when they shared details. Perhaps instead of a duplicate title, I should have said they have a title which indicates dual-ownership.

When a meth dealer gets busted, the things he owned are confiscated. Frankly, we should auction off TMO's entire guild bank.

[kbnexus]

so your assuming 10k was duped a year ago and 86 accounts got banned today? sounds legit to me. GM's banned 86 accounts over 10k a year ago? i think not. Sounds like someone is smoking something hard

No kid. First I don't know where this 10k comes from. But if only 10k was duped, then ROFL.

The duping occurred some time ago (near to a year) and they just now noticed it when the dupe was revealed on red. Which caused GM's to look for it on blue. Which is why this is happening now.

Get it?

[Nuggie]

I hope the general hate and animosity of the community here towards TMO is just lemming behavior and/or trolls, because it would be disappointing to hear that this is the genuine, overall perception of TMO as a whole.

Are you really this naive? Do you live in a bubble?

The majority of the server isn't a member of TMO. The majority of the server is being prevented from enjoying the vast majority of the raid content by TMO. You don't see how there could be mass resentment here?

Also, I recall a few members of VD making VP hard on TMO for a week. Then TMO made war and griefed everyone with a VD tag for months to the point the guild disbanded.

[kbnexus]

And as usual you are deflecting. I see no remorse for any actions coming from TMO's camp. Only entitlement. It's sad and shocking that the majority of the preconceptions about the majority of the people in your guild is proving to be true in this thread.

But its not proving that. Seems you are dumb. Every guild has had people do something stupid. 99%+ of TMO is clean.

[kbnexus]

Are you really this naive? Do you live in a bubble?

The majority of the server isn't a member of TMO. The majority of the server is being prevented from enjoying the vast majority of the raid content by TMO. You don't see how there could be mass resentment here?

Also, I recall a few members of VD making VP hard on TMO for a week. Then TMO made war and griefed everyone with a VD tag for months to the point the guild disbanded.

VD was using a known memblur exploit. BIG time cheaters.... what do you know... no punishment. (Thanks staff)

[Lazie]

But its not proving that. Seems you are dumb. Every guild has had people do something stupid. 99%+ of TMO is clean.

According to the guild that just got busted with a RMTer and dupers in their guild. Yeah, sorry no one is taking your word for anything right now. It's time to PROVE you are clean and helpful to the community. Get to work. BTW we can take a poll most people suspect you are the dense one on these forums. Your posts just keeps solidifying that fact.

[Barkingturtle]

99%+ of TMO is clean.

Somehow I don't doubt TMO has over 9000 members.

[kbnexus]

Are you implying TMO's accounts were hacked?

Seems to me they gave away their claims to sole ownership when they shared details. Perhaps instead of a duplicate title, I should have said they have a title which indicates dual-ownership.

When a meth dealer gets busted, the things he owned are confiscated. Frankly, we should auction off TMO's entire guild bank.

More like insurance that includes additional drivers. There is always a primary account holder.

[heazels]

No kid. First I don't know where this 10k comes from. But if only 10k was duped, then ROFL.

The duping occurred some time ago (near to a year) and they just now noticed it when the dupe was revealed on red. Which caused GM's to look for it on blue. Which is why this is happening now.

Get it?

and people are supposed to believe this was a 1 time duping from 1 year ago? dupers dont stop duping till they are banned or bug is patched.

And platlord.com is empty because he ran out of tampons not because he ran out of tampons and had to go to the store, not because dupers got banned yesterday

[Troubled]

VD was using a known memblur exploit. BIG time cheaters.... what do you know... no punishment. (Thanks staff)

What does that say about how they really think of you and how you treat the rest of the server?

[Dirkus]

But its not proving that. Seems you are dumb. Every guild has had people do something stupid. 99%+ of TMO is clean.

Forum and in game accounts banned. You must be the 1%.

[Barkingturtle]

More like insurance that includes additional drivers. There is always a primary account holder.

No no. The group "insurance" policy would be MQ2, SEQ, RMT etc etc.

[kbnexus]

Somehow I don't doubt TMO has over 9000 members.

Prob close to 200 in total including alot of inactives. also 86 accounts isnt 86 people...not to mention all the accounts not belonging to the 2 offenders will be unsuspended.

You need some reading comprehension.

[kbnexus]

Forum and in game accounts banned. You must be the 1%.

My in game accounts aren't banned. Just a forum account. Forum account was likely not banned for duping. HAH

[Raavak]

The only officer in this was Sentenza, and he got his suspension for ninjalooting. The other three were just peons like the rest of us. Why should that effect the hundred or so active members who did nothing wrong?

[kbnexus]

and people are supposed to believe this was a 1 time duping from 1 year ago? dupers dont stop duping till they are banned or bug is patched.

And platlord.com is empty because he ran out of tampons not because he ran out of tampons and had to go to the store, not because dupers got banned yesterday

If you are afflicted with the need to believe something I have very little interest in convincing you of something. Belief often times isn't subject to rational examination of evidence and is more a personal choice.

So if you want to talk about what you believe, I don't give a shit. If you want to talk about truth and facts.... let me know.

[Tasslehofp99]

The only officer in this was Sentenza, and he got his suspension for ninjalooting. The other three were just peons like the rest of us. Why should that effect the hundred or so active members who did nothing wrong?

Ya'll just follow orders, right?

[kbnexus]

Ya'll just follow orders, right?

Would you like to provide examples of TMO members or officers knowing about the duping or being ordered to cover up duping, or to dupe themselves?

[Vaildez]

The only officer in this was Sentenza, and he got his suspension for ninjalooting. The other three were just peons like the rest of us. Why should that effect the hundred or so active members who did nothing wrong?

Cause nobody believes it was just a few people acting alone... If this were the case your guild wouldn't be serving a suspension and nearly got disbanded.

[heazels]

If you are afflicted with the need to believe something I have very little interest in convincing you of something. Belief often times isn't subject to rational examination of evidence and is more a personal choice.

So if you want to talk about what you believe, I don't give a shit. If you want to talk about truth and facts.... let me know.

interesting, being the only truth so far has come from the gm's, while TMO has just come here to riddle the post with garbage that has no basis in reality. Pot calling kettle black no?

[Lazie]

The only officer in this was Sentenza, and he got his suspension for ninjalooting. The other three were just peons like the rest of us. Why should that effect the hundred or so active members who did nothing wrong?

How does anyone know at this point though ? I mean look how recent these things are coming to light.

Sentenza was always a player that most guilds would have removed based solely on his past actions. Yet he was still a member of TMO.

A RMTer is found out to be a member in TMO. (Excuses and spin came out about him as per usual).

Dupers are now found to be in TMO. (Excuses and spin are yet again starting up).

I have no doubt there are good people in TMO. I know a few myself that are awesome people. However, at this point it's up to TMO to prove that to the server by their actions. With the history of monopolizing content and flaming any guild that tries to get a kill (How dare those pesky guilds!!) for their members. With a history of never wanting to come to the table and work with the rest of the server when requested... It would seem it's time you guys PROVE you can be good people as a whole and work with the server.

[Tasslehofp99]

Would you like to provide examples of TMO members or officers knowing about the duping or being ordered to cover up duping, or to dupe themselves?

This concerns more than just duping, sir. There is a clear repeated history of offenses by your guild as well as years of griefing other guilds, training other guilds, etc. Stop trying to act like TMO breaking rules is some new thing, please.

[Orruar]

Hey TMO. If you think you're being treated unfairly, do the right thing and leave the server! Don't take this kind of abuse!

[Ungriim]

actually a manager is not responsible for his/her employee's actions. That is why when employees fuck up they are fired and replaced

Spoken like someone who has never had a real job before.

[Messianic]

ITT: Barkingturtle laying down the law

[kbnexus]

This concerns more than just duping, sir. There is a clear repeated history of offenses by your guild as well as years of griefing other guilds, training other guilds, etc. Stop trying to act like TMO breaking rules is some new thing, please.

FE/IB/VD/BDA have all trained/griefed/SEQ/MQ's/RMT'd and exploited.

Just because our guild didnt disband every few months we should be punished?

The core of FE has been breaking rules since the server started.

[Tasslehofp99]

FE/IB/VD/BDA have all trained/griefed/SEQ/MQ's/RMT'd and exploited.

Just because our guild didnt disband every few months we should be punished?

The core of FE has been breaking rules since the server started.

Prove it.

[Pheer]

ITT: TMO members still not understanding that "cause I say so" is not going to instantly make the server believe in their innocence or understand why they think they should just get to walk away untouched from allowing people with the ability to perform a gamebreaking exploit access to dozens and dozens of accounts with active TMO mains.

You took the risk, now take the hit and quit acting like little kids. I still have yet to see a single TMO member accept responsibility for the inherent risk they take in allowing ANYONE to access their account, guildmate or otherwise.

I've also yet to see an apology to the server from anyone in a position of power within TMO for the complete lack of oversight and control over their own guildmembers, which is still being displayed as we speak in multiple threads as TMO members and officers continue to attempt to deflect and spin this away from their guild. Seriously someone in your guild who is an officer and has access to the guildbank was in a thread calling people retards and "noobs" (LOL) and you're wondering where all this hate is coming from? Put a leash on your fucking mouthbreathers and maybe youd see a few more people sympathetic to your plight.

[Lazie]

FE/IB/VD/BDA have all trained/griefed/SEQ/MQ's/RMT'd and exploited.

Just because our guild didnt disband every few months we should be punished?

The core of FE has been breaking rules since the server started.

IT'S OK THAT WE DID IT BECAUSE YOU GUYS DID IT TOO!!!!

That defense no longer works Alarti. Reread Rogeans post. It's time to treat each other and the server differently. If not... There goes all the shiny Velious Toys you were looking forward to playing with.

[Itap]

ITT: Barkingturtle laying down the law

[kbnexus]

Prove it.

Its been proven numerous times. Invest in ginko so you can improve your memory.

[skipdog]

Well, I can't speak for anyone else because I'm not a mind-reader like you, but I have no pity for anyone that shares accounts. It provides a leg-up from a competitive standpoint, and it is a risk one enters into knowingly. It should be known too that sharing your details could negate all the effort you've put in.

Yes, I understand completely. That's a totally respectable position to have. I know account sharing does happen in other guilds and my only point was that I'll bet tons of people would be on that other guild's side if the same thing happened to them because of account sharing.... just because they 'aren't TMO'. My only point is that I'll bet many people's opinions would change if 'TMO' was almost any other guild name with most other factors in the reasoning for all of the account suspensions being the same.

[Furniture]

The core of FE has been breaking rules since the server started.

i'm sorry but you werent playing at the start of the server

[Tasslehofp99]

Its been proven numerous times. Invest in ginko so you can improve your memory.

Why you so mad tho

[kbnexus]

IT'S OK THAT WE DID IT BECAUSE YOU GUYS DID IT TOO!!!!

That defense no longer works Alarti. Reread Rogeans post. It's time to treat each other and the server differently. If not... There goes all the shiny Velious Toys you were looking forward to playing with.

I didn't say it was ok... I was saying this is an unprecedented action. If rogean doesn't want TMO to play here and he was his IB buddies back for Velious all he has to do is say so. If rogean wants the server to have a rotation he can make it happen. Rogean says he wants competition and classic EQ...I guess he is undecided now.

[Lazie]

Yes, I understand completely. That's a totally respectable position to have. I know account sharing does happen in other guilds and my only point was that I'll bet tons of people would be on that other guild's side if the same thing happened to them because of account sharing.... just because they 'aren't TMO'. My only point is that I'll bet many people's opinions would change if 'TMO' was almost any other guild name with most other factors in the reasoning for all of the account suspensions being the same.

That really hasn't proven to be true over the history of this server and the whole project. When exploiters/RMTers get busted they usually get crucified regardless of guild tag.

[Ella`Ella]

You're all posting faster than I can read. Slow down.

[Furniture]

I didn't say it was ok... I was saying this is an unprecedented action. If rogean doesn't want TMO to play here and he was his IB buddies back for Velious all he has to do is say so. If rogean wants the server to have a rotation he can make it happen. Rogean says he wants competition and classic EQ...I guess he is undecided now.

lol you are the definition of tinfoil hat and you are also a bitch

[Sloth]

this is why I quit P99 after Posky came out. IB was dominating and I saw things going straight into the mud.

The attitude in this community at the end game is so toxic. On top of that---RMT, dupes, etc. For an emulated old game? Its pathetic

[Lazie]

I didn't say it was ok... I was saying this is an unprecedented action. If rogean doesn't want TMO to play here and he was his IB buddies back for Velious all he has to do is say so. If rogean wants the server to have a rotation he can make it happen. Rogean says he wants competition and classic EQ...I guess he is undecided now.

Nothing about the way this raid scene is atm is classic. Stop pretending like it ever was. Again you guys are trying to take a backhanded swipe at Rogean for talking about things being better by claiming your warped sense of competition had anything to do with Classic Everquest.

I repeat for you Alarti... NOTHING about the current raid scene on this server is anything like it was during Classic EQ.

[kbnexus]

i'm sorry but you werent playing at the start of the server

Alarti's create date is in Oct 2009

Shut up kid

[arsenalpow]

FE/IB/VD/BDA have all trained/griefed/SEQ/MQ's/RMT'd and exploited.

Just because our guild didnt disband every few months we should be punished?

The core of FE has been breaking rules since the server started.

Prove it.

I can't.

Pretty much that.

[kbnexus]

lol you are the definition of tinfoil hat and you are also a bitch

Lol how? I understand you are mad...but how do I tinfoil haha.

[kbnexus]

Pretty much that.

Do you want me to post the pastebin of the SEQ accounts? I think they are actually still on the p99 forums. I remember Najdorf being one of the suspended people.