FE knowingly KS's TMO's Trak, Rushes to complete keys and Epics

[getsome]

I remember when Amelinda incorrectly awarded Inny loot after misinterpreting encounter logs.

Glad to see some shit never changes.

[falkun]

There is no FD by Option at this time; Option FDed about 30 seconds into the fight. It is not possible, as claimed by the conjuration of what may have happened in some alternate universe that granted TMO FTE, for Option to have done 538 damage with his Javelin. He indeed does 538 damage on his first entry in the server encounter log - hence it is impossible for him to have 'Javelin'd Trak and FD'd'.

Evidence of 500+ ranged from a monk:
[Wed Jan 16 18:35:55 2013] Your feet become entwined. You have taken 46 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 16 18:36:00 2013] Tortue says, 'ahah'
[Wed Jan 16 18:36:03 2013] You hit Tortue for 570 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 16 18:36:07 2013] You hit Tortue for 570 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 16 18:36:15 2013] The roots fall from your feet.

You'd have to ask Chest what ranged he was using, however.

[Tanthallas]

Yes, it is possible with shurikens of quellious from PoH.

There is no Javelin, however, with which this is possible.

[kotton05]

Well once I can cast spells as a monk i'm gonna use chest's shurikens then solo trakanomnom while da'd

[Rusl]

I remember when Amelinda incorrectly awarded Inny loot after misinterpreting encounter logs.

Glad to see some shit never changes.

Speaking of incorrect awarding of loot, any word on my shield of rainbow hues boss?

[Treats]

I've seen the fizzle thing happen before, it's just a bug.

Cleric fizzled 5 Donal's BP casts in a row once.

Kleavage would have had FTE if both Zeelot and Merkk feigned, looks like what happened to me.

[maverixdamighty]

I've seen the fizzle thing happen before, it's just a bug.

Cleric fizzled 5 Donal's BP casts in a row once.

Kleavage would have had FTE if both Zeelot and Merkk feigned, looks like what happened to me.

prove it

[kotton05]

I never fizzled a spell tho. Click SBi, once that wore off I used whirlwind.. then died at that time trak was up for grabs again and option got it.

[Tanthallas]

I've seen the fizzle thing happen before, it's just a bug.

Cleric fizzled 5 Donal's BP casts in a row once.

Kleavage would have had FTE if both Zeelot and Merkk feigned, looks like what happened to me.

Why are we even assuming Option FDed at this time? Like I said, show me how he can do 538 damage with a Javelin.

This was pulled out of thin air. ZEELOTS logs are supposed to show this; where do Zeelots logs show this? When he was DAed tanking Trak while Kleavage and 5 other people were engaged?

[Treats]

Oops meant Option not Merkk, sorry.

[Autotune]

im just curious.

Why the fuck would zeelot add in Merkk fizzling a spell anyway? I mean, what does he gain from that lol?

[Deanob]

I usually ignore RnF but I had to chime in here.

A) I'd like to know how a Monk can fizzle a spell.

B) Zeelot my man, tampering with raw data text logs is the lowest of the low. No credibility brother... that's just something you do not do.

[Ele]

Why are we even assuming Option FDed at this time? Like I said, show me how he can do 538 damage with a Javelin.

This was pulled out of thin air. ZEELOTS logs are supposed to show this; where do Zeelots logs show this? When he was DAed tanking Trak while Kleavage and 5 other people were engaged?

You are still assuming.

[Autotune]

wonder what the time difference is between the last time trak was attacking zee and when other's started to engage.

[Tanthallas]

Because Merkk would have been FTE if he did not die.

Read your forums; the attempted explanation at why Zeelot has FTE is on there per Alovia in about 9 steps. The first 4 or 5 concern Merkk.

[kotton05]

No shit stealin

When zeelots logs start he left out the initial engage which I had agro and he had to wait, when his logs start... I was dead. he had to fd and wait since I beat him to trak, also had to let trak reset, lost fte to options jav.

Now how can I fizzle shit after i'm dead n gone?

[Tanthallas]

You are still assuming.

No, I am not the one assuming. Saying that there is no evidence whatsoever for something is not assuming; saying that something could have happened without evidence is.

[Tanthallas]

Now how can I fizzle shit after i'm dead n gone?

What is dead may never die.

[Tiggles]

Because Merkk would have been FTE if he did not die.

Read your forums; the attempted explanation at why Zeelot has FTE is on there per Alovia in about 9 steps. The first 4 or 5 concern Merkk.

Fuck it let's go for 60

All FE is doing is making it easier for TMO To buy VP keyed characters to use as alts.

I called dips maverix character already

[kotton05]

wonder what the time difference is between the last time trak was attacking zee and when other's started to engage.

I can't remember exactly I know its not something you'd expect, like off by an hour due to time zone or a minute or 2, its a complete anomaly.

[kotton05]

Fuck it let's go for 60

All FE is doing is making it easier for TMO To buy VP keyed characters to use as alts.

I called dips maverix character already

Shut up Tiggles, you'll never be the man your mother is

[maverixdamighty]

Fuck it let's go for 60

All FE is doing is making it easier for TMO To buy VP keyed characters to use as alts.

I called dips maverix character already

my char was already in TMO and i removed myself when i came back to play. won't ever be in TMO again lol.

[Autotune]

Because Merkk would have been FTE if he did not die.

Read your forums; the attempted explanation at why Zeelot has FTE is on there per Alovia in about 9 steps. The first 4 or 5 concern Merkk.

So, you're saying that Zeelot added Merkk fizzling a spell because... Of that?


I'm sorry, but I don't get the it lol.

[arsenalpow]

I think you can get a fizzle if you're DA and use an instant click or pot, if you're DA and try to cast a spell (as a caster) you'll get the "you cannot cast spells while immune" message, but i think its a fizzle if youre using a clicky. Just a hunch...

Some no lifer that's currently in game should try that and report back

[Tiggles]

Shut up Tiggles, you'll never be the man your mother is

Your monk isn't really that geared and I already play a melee so I will pass on yours.

Also the rep is kinda shitty



Sorry

[kotton05]

I tried my hardest to debunk it Chest, most I can do is interrupt a spell, while DA, nada.
Not to mention I was dead when this happened

[getsome]

Speaking of incorrect awarding of loot, any word on my shield of rainbow hues boss?

I am submitting this petition to inquire about the CT loot from September 10.

I was informed by Daltheb the loot from CT was removed from his character but the items removed were from the wrong encounter. Since I am told it was the Dracoliche encounter where TR was supposed to forfeit the loot and not CT encounter.

I personally was not present at this raid, but I have inquired with my officers and no one has the loot from CT.

The items were puppet strings, shield of rainbow hues, and a barbarian spiritists hammer.

regards,

Getsome
Translantic Rampage



Submitted 9-12-2011
Last bumped. 6-26-2012

[Autotune]

I can't remember exactly I know its not something you'd expect, like off by an hour due to time zone or a minute or 2, its a complete anomaly.

Someone take the time where zee target's trak and line it up with server logs of him being added to trak's list.

Then go down and see if the last time Trak attacked zee was before or after the others were attacking him.

[Tiggles]

my char was already in TMO and i removed myself when i came back to play. won't ever be in TMO again lol.

When sloan RMTs your guild bank and splits and you can't kill maestro anymore you will still be blacklisted from TMO like the rest of the VDA/IB tards so unless you like camping fungis 24/7 like the rest of the burn outs on this server your gonna have to ditch the name and go incognito like minten and relapsee.

[maverixdamighty]

I think you can get a fizzle if you're DA and use an instant click or pot, if you're DA and try to cast a spell (as a caster) you'll get the "you cannot cast spells while immune" message, but i think its a fizzle if youre using a clicky. Just a hunch...

Some awsome person that's currently in game should try that and report back

just tried da and jboots with my cleric and it won't let you even cast it so that's wrong. can't confirm the pots.

[kotton05]

Your monk isn't really that geared and I already play a melee so I will pass on yours.

Also the rep is kinda shitty



Sorry

Confirmed Tiggles parents are siblings, quit while youre ahead bro.

[Tanthallas]

Someone take the time where zee target's trak and line it up with server logs of him being added to trak's list.

Then go down and see if the last time Trak attacked zee was before or after the others were attacking him.

I have already done this a few pages prior. Him targeting Trak is not him gaining aggro on Trak, however. The pathing jugg is on him before this...

He is most likely targeting Trak from the corner waiting to grab FTE after Merkk died and Trak reset; pathing jugg aggros him; he runs in at Trak and FDs under him so that he can pop up after reset.

[Tiggles]

Confirmed Tiggles parents are siblings, quit while youre ahead bro.

Aren't all the best lannisters?


And fine....I'll do 30k for him stripped I could use someone to train in VP.

[kotton05]

Aren't all the best lannisters?


And fine....I'll do 30k for him stripped I could use someone to train in VP.

I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce.

Keep pointing out my gear & making shit up, you have nothing to spin.

[Autotune]

I have already done this a few pages prior. Him targeting Trak is not him gaining aggro on Trak, however. The pathing jugg is on him before this...

He is most likely targeting Trak from the corner waiting to grab FTE after Merkk died and Trak reset; pathing jugg aggros him; he runs in at Trak and FDs under him so that he can pop up after reset.

by those logs linked earlier tho where you showed Trak attacking zee = zee on encounter log that was prior to his fd.

So if what I said can't be right, then what you said can't be right.

[ivosik]

just tried da and jboots with my cleric and it won't let you even cast it so that's wrong. can't confirm the pots.

Learn to read, he said with a melee anyways what's the relevance of Merrk fizzling. Shouldn't u two guilds be camped at lesge

[maverixdamighty]

When sloan RMTs your guild bank and splits and you can't kill maestro anymore you will still be blacklisted from TMO like the rest of the VDA/IB tards so unless you like camping fungis 24/7 like the rest of the burn outs on this server your gonna have to ditch the name and go incognito like minten and relapsee.

oh no blacklisted from TMO. your guild will be dead or #2 before i quit playing.

[kotton05]

by those logs linked earlier tho where you showed Trak attacking zee = zee on encounter log that was prior to his fd.

So if what I said can't be right, then what you said can't be right.

Im pretty sure its after he was fd and stood up. he stood up trak aggro'd him for some reason or another da'd then held agro while others attacked?.. then I fizzle while dead. All the while with option having the new reset traks fte.

[Splorf22]

Here is what I don't understand: if Zeelot is going to doctor logs, why the fuck would he add in Merkk fizzling. That makes no sense at all.

[White Ranger]

oh no blacklisted from TMO. your guild will be dead or #2 before i quit playing.

I thought TMO was already #2. That's what I keep hearing.

[Autotune]

Here is what I don't understand: if Zeelot is going to doctor logs, why the fuck would he add in Merkk fizzling. That makes no sense at all.

Yeah, this is all fucking retarded.

[ivosik]

Until a melee burns a da idol to test , shits and he said she said

[maverixdamighty]

I thought TMO was already #2. That's what I keep hearing.

outside of vp. you guys are still clearly #1 guild overall when you count VP, i will give you that.

[Autotune]

Im pretty sure its after he was fd and stood up. he stood up trak aggro'd him for some reason or another da'd then held agro while others attacked?.. then I fizzle while dead. All the while with option having the new reset traks fte.

How does option gain FTE and trak attack zee when he stands?

Unless zee get's hit with an AE and low hp aggro works while DA'd... pretty sure it doesn't

[47shadesofgay]

Something I'm still curious about is the gather shadows message. We see it fading off Zeelot with the appropriate message, but in his log there is no message received where he would have conceivably cast it.

Cast on you: You gather shadows about you.
Cast on other: Soandso steps into the shadows and disappears.
Effect Fades: Your shadows fade.

Is this a bug, or is this more proof that things have been removed from Zeelot's log? Can anyone test this out?

[kotton05]

Until a melee burns a da idol to test , shits and he said she said

Thing is, don't need to do this, the fizzle came after I was dead, You can't click pots, or clickies while DA, just wont let you at all.

@stealin On the logs Option got fte, Zeelot then got agro. Options jav's then da's, this will transfer agro easily to anyone who casts or hits trak, iirc zeelot should not have had low hp agro, I took the first aoe before he came in, so him tanking during da seems off as well.

[47shadesofgay]

Here's the relevant section of the log in regards to my last question, for review:

[Sun Mar 10 21:52:44 2013] You are out of food.
[Sun Mar 10 21:52:46 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Sun Mar 10 21:52:46 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sun Mar 10 21:52:46 2013] You are stunned!
[Sun Mar 10 21:52:46 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to bash YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Sun Mar 10 21:52:48 2013] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Sun Mar 10 21:52:48 2013] You are unstunned.
[Sun Mar 10 21:52:49 2013] Your shadows fade.

[kotton05]

Should be

Zeelot begins to cast a spell.

.... before the shadows fade part.

[47shadesofgay]

Merkk, I'm also interested in seeing your logs so that we can search for a fizzle and compare timings.

Can you please post them?

[Godefroi]

Not even mentioning the time stamps discrepancies clearly showing Zeelot's modification of the logs, adding Merkk's fizzling a spell is quite retarded. It just attests he modified them.

If you question how retarded Zeelot is to do this (or why he would), you should refer to his previour actions such as getting himself suspended 2 weeks for AE'ing a pack of mezzed mobs at the entrance of KC where everyone could fraps him.

Retards are retards.

[maverixdamighty]

Yeah, this is all fucking retarded.

maybe because like the majority of tmo they didn't realize merkk was a monk.

he showed a fizzle to show a failed attempt at a FTE snipe...

[Tanthallas]

by those logs linked earlier tho where you showed Trak attacking zee = zee on encounter log that was prior to his fd.

So if what I said can't be right, then what you said can't be right.

Zeelot is on the server encounter logs once. If he indeed had aggro on Trak and FD'd, and if Trak DID NOT RESET, he would show up twice. This means that his initial engage before the FD was followed by a Trak reset - i.e., Merkks death. This means that Zeelots targeting of Trakanon in no way, shape, or form, is commensurable to his entering Trakanon's agro list on the server encounter logs.

The server encounter logs of Zeelots engaging five seconds after Option, which MUST BE MATCHED to his own personal logs, would have to take place after he FD'd; this means that even more people were engaged on Trakanon then I previously stated while Zeelot merrily DA tanked Trakanon.

So if what you said isnt right; what I said is even more right.

[Tiggles]

maybe because like the majority of tmo they didn't realize merkk was a monk.

he showed a fizzle to show a failed attempt at a FTE snipe...

We all know he was a monk we watched the fraps where he got suspended trying to train.

It would also be

maybe because like the majority of tmo they didn't realized that merkk exists

[Ele]

Something I'm still curious about is the gather shadows message. We see it fading off Zeelot with the appropriate message, but in his log there is no message received where he would have conceivably cast it.



Is this a bug, or is this more proof that things have been removed from Zeelot's log? Can anyone test this out?

Because people never camp out invis.

[maverixdamighty]

Am I supposed to know who Merkk is?

say what tiggles?

[Ele]

Zeelot is on the server encounter logs once. If he indeed had aggro on Trak and FD'd, and if Trak DID NOT RESET, he would show up twice. This means that his initial engage before the FD was followed by a Trak reset - i.e., Merkks death. This means that Zeelots targeting of Trakanon in no way, shape, or form, is commensurable to his entering Trakanon's agro list on the server encounter logs.

The server encounter logs of Zeelots engaging five seconds after Option, which MUST BE MATCHED to his own personal logs, would have to take place after he FD'd; this means that even more people were engaged on Trakanon then I previously stated while Zeelot merrily DA tanked Trakanon.

So if what you said isnt right; what I said is even more right.

Damn you are stupid.

[Tiggles]

say what tiggles?

Grats you found someone who doesn't know who your scrubby monk is.

Zeelot was the one who got Merkk suspended he knows he's a monk

[Yun]

This thread sucks

[maverixdamighty]

Grats you found someone who doesn't know who your scrubby monk is.

Zeelot was the one who got Merkk suspended he knows he's a monk

so "we all know " is now "some of us know". keep backtracking.

[Ele]

so "we all know " is now "some of us know". keep backtracking.

This is what you are resorting to now?

[Tiggles]

This thread sucks

[Autotune]

maybe because like the majority of tmo they didn't realize merkk was a monk.

he showed a fizzle to show a failed attempt at a FTE snipe...

Casting a spell is a great way to fte snipe... or so i've heard it works more wonders than just being in LOS to cast a spell anyhow.

[maverixdamighty]

This is what you are resorting to now?

i'm not the one making incorrect statements. talk to your buddy.

[Tanthallas]

This is what you are resorting to now?

You are one to talk; you gave up trying to rationalize how Zeelots personal logs in any concieveable way provide evidence to supersede the server encounter logs. Not only this, but you also gave up trying to defend what appears to be a pretty blatant doctoring of raid logs submitted by Zeelot to Alovia. You did try though, like a good little sheep.

The only person here who is even somewhat addressing the blatant inconsistencies in these logs with a known affiliation to TMO is Stealin. Everyone else see's clearly how fucked these logs are.

[Servellious]

So butt hurt gotta cheat and alter logs to get trak kills. Poop socking petitioning and altering of logs seems like your guilds only strengths when it comes to competition.

[47shadesofgay]

Because people never camp out invis.

Being attacked and stunned should break invis? Does a rune prevent this? I can't find any evidence supporting this.

[Splorf22]

being attacked while rune is up does not break invis. its how i split camps in HS all the time: rune/bedlam/invis drag live mobs away.

[Autotune]

You are one to talk; you gave up trying to rationalize how Zeelots personal logs in any concieveable way provide evidence to supersede the server encounter logs. Not only this, but you also gave up trying to defend what appears to be a pretty blatant doctoring of raid logs submitted by Zeelot to Alovia. You did try though, like a good little sheep.

The only person here who is even somewhat addressing the blatant inconsistencies in these logs with a known affiliation to TMO is Stealin. Everyone else see's clearly how fucked these logs are.

I don't know if they are or not tbh.

Being able to tell when someone is added to a raid encounter log from their person log is nearly impossible.

The fact that a monk fizzles is weird, just as weird as zeelot adding a fizzle to his logs lol.

can't tell if people are or aren't attacking trak while zee is DA'd.

[maverixdamighty]

Being attacked and stunned should break invis? Does a rune prevent this? I can't find any evidence supporting this.

just tested it doesn't break when runed.

[Autotune]

I wonder if Merkk had DI on him and he fizzled that when he died lol.

[Autotune]

I wonder if Merkk had DI on him and he fizzled that when he died lol.

Score one for me!

[47shadesofgay]

being attacked while rune is up does not break invis. its how i split camps in HS all the time: rune/bedlam/invis drag live mobs away.

Ok cool thanks. Clears that up then. :)

[Zeelot]

Rune prevents invis from breaking til rune breaks. Yes I camped out with invis.

No clue how merkk fizzled, but it happened, probably something to do with trying a clickie right as he died is my best guess.

You guys are ridiculous for accusing me of doctoring logs lol.

[maverixdamighty]

Rune prevents invis from breaking til rune breaks. Yes I camped out with invis.

No clue how merkk fizzled, but it happened, probably something to do with trying a clickie right as he died is my best guess.

You guys are ridiculous for accusing me of doctoring logs lol.

so now clickies fizzle ? gotcha

[47shadesofgay]

Score one for me!

Umm.. if he's in range of seeing a spell fizzle, why would he not be in range to capture a "Merkk has been slain by Trakanon" message?

They happen at the same time if we're assuming this is because of DI.

[47shadesofgay]

Rune prevents invis from breaking til rune breaks. Yes I camped out with invis.

No clue how merkk fizzled, but it happened, probably something to do with trying a clickie right as he died is my best guess.

You guys are ridiculous for accusing me of doctoring logs lol.


Where is you capturing him dying then? It's nowhere in your log..

[Autotune]

so now clickies fizzle ? gotcha

zee tried to cast a clicky on merkk. So maybe the corpse fizzled the buff?

I'd go with fizzling a DI > that tho lol, but who knows.

[Zeelot]

I have no idea what caused the Fizzle, was just guessing. Could be DI like stealin says too. Bottom line is it happened. You guys are just bitches because I pointed out how the mechanics worked.

I tested some mechanics:

1. I tagged an NPC + generated hate, then FD'd
2. Player aggro'd NPC and got FTE
3. I stand up and get 2nd aggro via memory, NPC stays aggro on 1st Aggro Player
4. Player kills and gm checks logs confirm list

This means, memory aggro will not pull primary hate, unless first person to tag dies/FDs/DA's.

Sloan in group earlier with Alovia, said option used whirlwind, not DA. No logs show him casting a spell either, so DA is ruled out.

For Trak, our test proves: If Option were standing when I stood up, Trak would stay on Option. (I was hidden while I stood, so Trak came at me single) My logs show that Trak was on me, while I was hidden and even while DA.

I have tested this mechanic multiple times now.

Trak came for me, which means Option was not standing. The encounter log was still running because I stood up right before he went down, but with him down and no other FE around, I should be FTE.

[Tanthallas]

Or maybe Zeelots logs are fucking useless and should never have superseded the server encounter logs?

He can come here to save face all he wants; he knows that the story he fed Alovia is a lie.

[Ele]

You are one to talk; you gave up trying to rationalize how Zeelots personal logs in any concieveable way provide evidence to supersede the server encounter logs. Not only this, but you also gave up trying to defend what appears to be a pretty blatant doctoring of raid logs submitted by Zeelot to Alovia. You did try though, like a good little sheep.

The only person here who is even somewhat addressing the blatant inconsistencies in these logs with a known affiliation to TMO is Stealin. Everyone else see's clearly how fucked these logs are.

You must living in your own little world. I find it difficult to argue game mechanics with people that don't understand how the game works. Additionally, the way you inconsistently argue your case, one would think you were in federal court. On one hand you argue the logs are doctored. The other hand you assume they are correct, so you can line up your time line analysis to "prove" Zeelot tanked with other people on aggro while DA.

You fail to account that DA can be clicked off. Which is not reflected in the encounter log or the log provided by Zeelot. You further fail to realize or account for the way aggro works in this game. You go off on tangents about oh clicking trakanon isn't aggro, oh Jugg aggro, oh Trakanon landed melee hits... that has to be when Zeelot got on the aggro list!

Face it Steve, you are a guild leader in a game you know nothing about besides how to buy additional characters with plat you earned spending far too much time at Fungi King. You and your crew come on RNF and spin ever which way but correct. If you truly believed that you were leading the new best guild on the server, you guys would have to keep coming in here crying every single day.

P.S. If you believe that Zeelot's log is doctored, how about Merkk and Option post up their logs? Let's throw everything out on the table and see what you got.

[maverixdamighty]

I have no idea what caused the Fizzle, was just guessing. Could be DI like stealin says too. Bottom line is it happened. You guys are just bitches because I pointed out how the mechanics worked.

I tested some mechanics:

1. I tagged an NPC + generated hate, then FD'd
2. Player aggro'd NPC and got FTE
3. I stand up and get 2nd aggro via memory, NPC stays aggro on 1st Aggro Player
4. Player kills and gm checks logs confirm list

This means, memory aggro will not pull primary hate, unless first person to tag dies/FDs/DA's.

Sloan in group earlier with Alovia, said option used whirlwind, not DA. No logs show him casting a spell either, so DA is ruled out.

For Trak, our test proves: If Option were standing when I stood up, Trak would stay on Option. (I was hidden while I stood, so Trak came at me single) My logs show that Trak was on me, while I was hidden and even while DA.

I have tested this mechanic multiple times now.

Trak came for me, which means Option was not standing. The encounter log was still running because I stood up right before he went down, but with him down and no other FE around, I should be FTE.

that's flat out false. merkk used da idol then used whirlwind when it faded. confirmed troll.

[Zeelot]

Yea because game mechanics lie ;) Nice try buddy

[Tanthallas]

Sloan in group earlier with Alovia, said option used whirlwind, not DA. No logs show him casting a spell either, so DA is ruled out.

Are you joking?

No logs show ANYTHING that you are claiming.

[maverixdamighty]

You must living in your own little world. I find it difficult to argue game mechanics with people that don't understand how the game works. Additionally, the way you inconsistently argue your case, one would think you were in federal court. On one hand you argue the logs are doctored. The other hand you assume they are correct, so you can line up your time line analysis to "prove" Zeelot tanked with other people on aggro while DA.

You fail to account that DA can be clicked off. Which is not reflected in the encounter log or the log provided by Zeelot. You further fail to realize or account for the way aggro works in this game. You go off on tangents about oh clicking trakanon isn't aggro, oh Jugg aggro, oh Trakanon landed melee hits... that has to be when Zeelot got on the aggro list!

Face it Steve, you are a guild leader in a game you know nothing about besides how to buy additional characters with plat you earned spending far too much time at Fungi King. You and your crew come on RNF and spin ever which way but correct. If you truly believed that you were leading the new best guild on the server, you guys would have to keep coming in here crying every single day.

P.S. If you believe that Zeelot's log is doctored, how about Merkk and Option post up their logs? Let's throw everything out on the table and see what you got.

server logs show option with fte not sure what else the GMs could want...

[Zeelot]

Option would not be on the encounter list twice if he did not FD. There's a reason he's on it twice. Derp

[kotton05]

The key thing is the fizzle is AFTER im dead, I da'd... it ran its full course used WW and died, putting trak up for grabs...

No other FE around? we engaged. just cause after options fte you had like 6 on list doesn't mean you get FTE.

[Tiggles]

You must living in your own little world. I find it difficult to argue game mechanics with people that don't understand how the game works. Additionally, the way you inconsistently argue your case, one would think you were in federal court. On one hand you argue the logs are doctored. The other hand you assume they are correct, so you can line up your time line analysis to "prove" Zeelot tanked with other people on aggro while DA.

You fail to account that DA can be clicked off. Which is not reflected in the encounter log or the log provided by Zeelot. You further fail to realize or account for the way aggro works in this game. You go off on tangents about oh clicking trakanon isn't aggro, oh Jugg aggro, oh Trakanon landed melee hits... that has to be when Zeelot got on the aggro list!

Face it Steve, you are a guild leader in a game you know nothing about besides how to buy additional characters with plat you earned spending far too much time at Fungi King. You and your crew come on RNF and spin ever which way but correct. If you truly believed that you were leading the new best guild on the server, you guys would have to keep coming in here crying every single day.

P.S. If you believe that Zeelot's log is doctored, how about Merkk and Option post up their logs? Let's throw everything out on the table and see what you got.



Took 57 pages but here it is.

Best post of the thread.


Sloan got slapped down

[maverixdamighty]

Option would not be on the encounter list twice if he did not FD. There's a reason he's on it twice. Derp

i was on the last fte list twice as a warrior. i must have fd too...derp

[kotton05]

Also doesn't matter if he tags mobs then fd, on the current non reset hate list he will be fte, he can FD a million times over n over as long as its engaged and dies.

[Tiggles]

i was on the last fte list twice as a warrior. i must have fd too...derp

Could of got shroomed and CoTH?

[Ele]

server logs show option with fte not sure what else the GMs could want...

How about the logs from Merkk and Options?

[maverixdamighty]

why would anything be viewed above the server logs? makes no sense.

[Zeelot]

It does matter if you tag and FD. FTE means first to engage. Means you are engaging it and staying engaged. It doesn't mean first to tag and FD, lol. If you go down and have no one to back you up, your engage is over.

[Tiggles]

How about the logs from Merkk and Options?

[kotton05]

Full circle completely wiped on VS, got fte. Grats FC. so your logic is flawed. what about VS logs? hmmm

[maverixdamighty]

It does matter if you tag and FD. FTE means first to engage. Means you are engaging it and staying engaged. It doesn't mean first to tag and FD, lol. If you go down and have no one to back you up, your engage is over.

but when you guys do it it is to position the mob lol? hahahhahahha

[Tiggles]

why would anything be viewed above the server logs? makes no sense.

Sounds like a cop out.

Post the logs


Too many knees to the back of the head stopping you?

[47shadesofgay]

Yea because game mechanics lie ;) Nice try buddy

Game mechanics don't, you do.

If I ever require a public defender I will be sure to look you up.

[maverixdamighty]

Sounds like a cop out.

Post the logs


Too many knees to the back of the head stopping you?

i don't run logs for merkk or option if they have them and want to share them they can go for it. hard for your to understand? Go garden around your cardboard box, troll.

[Zeelot]

Exactly :) It's to position mob and setoff AE so that the tanks run in. Go bump the bug report about Shroom touch and DA rather than whining here, it's more productive.

[Ele]

i don't run logs for merkk or option if they have them and want to share them they can go for it. hard for your to understand? Go garden around your cardboard box, troll.

If these guys are such pro FTE'ers, they should have logs readily available.

We are waiting.

[Servellious]

TMO trying to spin this one as best as they can.

[bluejam]

http://i.imgur.com/0ghRm03.gif

[Ele]

TMO trying to spin this one as best as they can.

What's to spin? We got the kill. FE is spinning to get it reversed.

[maverixdamighty]

If these guys are such pro FTE'ers, they should have logs readily available.

We are waiting.

again wtf does it matter. personal logs can be doctored, see zeelots, who is doctoring the server logs? Unless a GM is doing it they are the best evidence to go off of.

[Tanthallas]

You must living in your own little world. I find it difficult to argue game mechanics with people that don't understand how the game works. Additionally, the way you inconsistently argue your case, one would think you were in federal court. On one hand you argue the logs are doctored. The other hand you assume they are correct, so you can line up your time line analysis to "prove" Zeelot tanked with other people on aggro while DA.

You fail to account that DA can be clicked off. Which is not reflected in the encounter log or the log provided by Zeelot. You further fail to realize or account for the way aggro works in this game. You go off on tangents about oh clicking trakanon isn't aggro, oh Jugg aggro, oh Trakanon landed melee hits... that has to be when Zeelot got on the aggro list!

Face it Steve, you are a guild leader in a game you know nothing about besides how to buy additional characters with plat you earned spending far too much time at Fungi King. You and your crew come on RNF and spin ever which way but correct. If you truly believed that you were leading the new best guild on the server, you guys would have to keep coming in here crying every single day.

P.S. If you believe that Zeelot's log is doctored, how about Merkk and Option post up their logs? Let's throw everything out on the table and see what you got.

Cute, but once again zero substantive content.

1. It is called proof by contradiction; I dont expect someone who argues on the level of a 10 year old to grasp it, so I will forgive you. It works like this: Assume A is true. If A is true, B is true. B cannot be true by definition. The assumption, A, is invalid.

2. I fail to account for the fact that DA can be clicked off? And then you say THIS IS NOT REFLECTED IN THE ENCOUNTER LOG OR ANYWHERE ELSE??? Let me get this straight - I FAILED to account for something that IS NOWHERE IN THE EVIDENCE? You are a real gem. Be good to this one Zeelot.

3. I know how to use those additional characters to take your mobs. I have been using those additional characters to take your mobs. See, I prefer to use my characters to beat you - your guildleader seems to prefer convincing new guides to use half assed logs while spinning stories in their ears and spending 2 hours with them in EC 'testing' what he wants to use as 'evidence' that is nowhere to be found on either encounter log.

[Ele]

why would anything be viewed above the server logs? makes no sense.

Because encounters, when possible, should be reviewed from a totality of the circumstances.

Sirken regarding FTE (snipe) situations
take a log or SS of whos in the zone (/w all zone) and send it in with your petition. once upon a time i was in a guild that was literally seconds away from engaging trak when a monk from a competing guild let fly his javelin. we killed trak, yet the other guild got the loots because they had FTE. and yea, it sucked we didnt get the loots, but i had to tip my hat to that monk. but i mean, i'm not an idiot either. if u show me that GuildA had 35 in zone, and that GuildB had 5 in zone. and that GuildB let fly a javelin (technically gaining FTE), i'm not going to take away GuildAs loots. now if both guilds have sufficient raid forces, that would be a different story. you're going to notice in time that i'm a very big advocate of "common sense" ;)

[Godefroi]

Exactly :) It's to position mob and setoff AE so that the tanks run in. Go bump the bug report about Shroom touch and DA rather than whining here, it's more productive.

relax john, we're just disclosing your obvious cheat.

You may now carry on to try to look smart and spin it.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Full circle completely wiped on VS, got fte. Grats FC. so your logic is flawed. what about VS logs? hmmm

Past precedent is that as long as a guild has maintained at least some form of continuous aggro, that the encounter is awarded to them. If at any time the chain of aggro from FTE to mob death did not have a member of the guild on it, the kill could be otherwise awarded.

but when you guys do it it is to position the mob lol? hahahhahahh

Again, past precedent has generally circled around maintaining a continuous chain of aggro and expressing good faith intent to engage the mob. If TMO positions a mob and loses the chain of aggro, that mob goes on the market. TMO generally employs tactics that preserve the chain.

However, it is interesting to note that some previous decisions were very strict in their application of the FTE rule. Even if your raid force completely wiped or if you had a single name on the mob (with FTE) you could win the mob. It seems that P99 caselaw is very much evolving to a true FTE with good faith and actual intent as opposed to a strict "First to grab aggro" or "first to grab and maintain a chain of aggro even if you have no intent to kill the mob."

[47shadesofgay]

I too would like to see Merkk and Options logs.

[Godefroi]

http://i.imgur.com/0ghRm03.gif

hahahahh :D

[Zeelot]

You do realize the GM's go primarily off the server logs and just use personal logs as backup evidence, which they compare with the server logs? There's no merit in anyone doctoring personal logs.

It's been a few days and you guys are still mad about this? lol. Face it, you failed...Best of luck on this Trak and the ones to come.

[Autotune]

Cute, but once again zero substantive content.

1. It is called proof by contradiction; I dont expect someone who argues on the level of a 10 year old to grasp it, so I will forgive you. It works like this: Assume A is true. If A is true, B is true. B cannot be true by definition. The assumption, A, is invalid.

2. I fail to account for the fact that DA can be clicked off? And then you say THIS IS NOT REFLECTED IN THE ENCOUNTER LOG OR ANYWHERE ELSE??? Let me get this straight - I FAILED to account for something that IS NOWHERE IN THE EVIDENCE? You are a real gem. Be good to this one Zeelot.

3. I know how to use those additional characters to take your mobs. I have been using those additional characters to take your mobs. See, I prefer to use my characters to beat you - your guildleader seems to prefer convincing new guides to use half assed logs while spinning stories in their ears and spending 2 hours with them in EC 'testing' what he wants to use as 'evidence' that is nowhere to be found on either encounter log.

assuming proof

I like that

[Tiggles]

Cute, but once again zero substantive content.

1. It is called proof by contradiction; I dont expect someone who argues on the level of a 10 year old to grasp it, so I will forgive you. It works like this: Assume A is true. If A is true, B is true. B cannot be true by definition. The assumption, A, is invalid.

2. I fail to account for the fact that DA can be clicked off? And then you say THIS IS NOT REFLECTED IN THE ENCOUNTER LOG OR ANYWHERE ELSE??? Let me get this straight - I FAILED to account for something that IS NOWHERE IN THE EVIDENCE? You are a real gem. Be good to this one Zeelot.

3. I know how to use those additional characters to take your mobs. I have been using those additional characters to take your mobs. See, I prefer to use my characters to beat you - your guildleader seems to prefer convincing new guides to use half assed logs while spinning stories in their ears and spending 2 hours with them in EC 'testing' what he wants to use as 'evidence' that is nowhere to be found on either encounter log.


I'm not reading any post of yours unless you sign it


Thanks,

Steve

[maverixdamighty]

Because encounters, when possible, should be reviewed from a totality of the circumstances.

Sirken regarding FTE (snipe) situations

nice example but seeing as we had a raid force there to kill trak your point is moot...

[Tanthallas]

assuming proof

I like that

Please just go look up something about proof by contradiction so you dont embarrass yourself.

What you assume is not what you prove to be true; you prove the assumption to be false insofar as what follows from it is impossible.

[Tiggles]

nice example but seeing as we had a raid force there to kill trak your point is moot...

Hey punch drunk post the logs.

I'm sure your Jamaican assisted living nurse can help you figure out where to find them.

[Tanthallas]

Thanks,

Steve

[Kinsawt]

No bullshit, I could 100% get this loot awarded to IB. 100%.

[maverixdamighty]

Hey punch drunk post the logs.

I'm sure your Jamaican assisted living nurse can help you figure out where to find them.

logs are posted showing ele's shitty example holds no merit to this case. we have just as many if not more on the agro list than TMO. tiggles you are going down hill fast. you should quit.

[Autotune]

Please just go look up something about proof by contradiction so you dont embarrass yourself.

What you assume is not what you prove to be true; you prove the assumption to be false insofar as what follows from it is impossible.

Hmm, except you proved nothing.

aside from Merkk = Monk.

[Tiggles]

No bullshit, I could 100% get this loot awarded to IB. 100%.

You'd probably get a Donals BP out of the deal as well.

How's tricks Kinswat?

[Ele]

Cute, but once again zero substantive content.

1. It is called proof by contradiction; I dont expect someone who argues on the level of a 10 year old to grasp it, so I will forgive you. It works like this: Assume A is true. If A is true, B is true. B cannot be true by definition. The assumption, A, is invalid.

2. I fail to account for the fact that DA can be clicked off? And then you say THIS IS NOT REFLECTED IN THE ENCOUNTER LOG OR ANYWHERE ELSE??? Let me get this straight - I FAILED to account for something that IS NOWHERE IN THE EVIDENCE? You are a real gem. Be good to this one Zeelot.

3. I know how to use those additional characters to take your mobs. I have been using those additional characters to take your mobs. See, I prefer to use my characters to beat you - your guildleader seems to prefer convincing new guides to use half assed logs while spinning stories in their ears and spending 2 hours with them in EC 'testing' what he wants to use as 'evidence' that is nowhere to be found on either encounter log.

1. Still contradicting yourself man.

No, I am not the one assuming. Saying that there is no evidence whatsoever for something is not assuming; saying that something could have happened without evidence is.

I see Alarti let you borrow his Logic 101 bathroom reader.

2. Again, in your analysis you posit that Zeelot is tanking Trak while DA. You appear to be assuming DA was active the whole 18 seconds. If this is incorrect, please let me know what you actually are arguing.

When he was DAed tanking Trak while Kleavage and 5 other people were engaged?

3. Good for you. Please show us your logs that contradict the logs submitted to the GM.

[Ele]

nice example but seeing as we had a raid force there to kill trak your point is moot...

Where are your logs?

[maverixdamighty]

Where are your logs?

didn't take logs i was like #40 on the list wtf would the point be then. where are your logs?

[Ele]

Guys, we've put another 160+ posts on this thread since lunch. GG

[Tiggles]

Ele earning some serious forum DKP

Fun Fact: Sloan has a lvl 60 character camped out at every raid mob.

No matter how many fungis you sell you can't buy a good raid guild

[Ele]

didn't take logs i was like #40 on the list wtf would the point be then. where are your logs?

Submitted to the GM, and guess who got awarded the kill. :D

With the game mechanics the way they are, you can capture the whole fight and never appear on the aggro list, but decent attempt at an excuse.

[Kinsawt]

Good, good. Going to grab dinner with Perun tomorrow night. You know you're welcome to join us, anytime.

Fights about Trak FTE still going on? Aren't we coming up on the 2 year anniversary of the server first Trak kill?

[47shadesofgay]

Is there a fraps of this encounter? Where did the proof that option FD'ed his FTE thus awarding it to Zeelot?

[maverixdamighty]

Submitted to the GM, and guess who got awarded the kill. :D

With the game mechanics the way they are, you can capture the whole fight and never appear on the aggro list, but decent attempt at an excuse.

post your logs. obviously i'm stating i wasn't in the zone as the agro attempt happened, but i guess you are too slow to deduce that.

[Tiggles]

post your logs. obviously i'm stating i wasn't in the zone as the agro attempt happened, but i guess you are too slow to deduce that.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/3/13/2867460/the-fighter-who-stayed-too-long

[Tanthallas]

You do realize the GM's go primarily off the server logs and just use personal logs as backup evidence, which they compare with the server logs? There's no merit in anyone doctoring personal logs.

It's been a few days and you guys are still mad about this? lol. Face it, you failed...Best of luck on this Trak and the ones to come.

How is there no merit in fixing your personal logs if they are used for backup on an server encounter log that is inconclusive in regards to what your PERSONAL LOGS are claiming? Fail number 1.

How exactly are you claiming that your DA tanking of Trak matches with the server encounter log engage that you had 5 seconds after Option when following this timestamp trail leads to the IMPOSSIBLE event of you DA tanking Trakanon when more than 6 other people are also on Trakanon's hate list? Fail number 2.

I have already explained all this. It seems that instead of actually addressing what I showed in your logs and the encounter logs, you instead want to talk only about the precise game mechanics that would give you the result you want in the event that what you are saying actually happened. Unfortunately, what you are saying did not happen.

You can build castles in the sky all day if you want; I want to know if those castles you are building actually fucking exist.

[maverixdamighty]

http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/3/13/2867460/the-fighter-who-stayed-too-long

tiggles life story told in a movie format:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_(2003_film)

[Ele]

How is there no merit in fixing your personal logs if they are used for backup on an server encounter log that is inconclusive in regards to what your PERSONAL LOGS are claiming? Fail number 1.

How exactly are you claiming that your DA tanking of Trak matches with the server encounter log engage that you had 5 seconds after Option when following this timestamp trail leads to the IMPOSSIBLE event of you DA tanking Trakanon when more than 6 other people are also on Trakanon's hate list? Fail number 2.

I have already explained all this. It seems that instead of actually addressing what I showed in your logs and the encounter logs, you instead want to talk only about the precise game mechanics that would give you the result you want in the event that what you are saying actually happened. Unfortunately, what you are saying did not happen.

You can build castles in the sky all day if you want; I want to know if those castles you are building actually fucking exist.

All these assumptions!

[maverixdamighty]

All these assumptions!

post your logs ele. not zeelots post yours.

[Ele]

post your logs ele. not zeelots post yours.

Only if Merrk and Options post their's!

[Tanthallas]

Is there a fraps of this encounter? Where did the proof that option FD'ed his FTE thus awarding it to Zeelot?

There is none.

Zeelot is merely attempting to argue that this is a possibility; not that it happened. What is even more comical is he is providing his own personal logs as a basis for claiming that it is possible. The server encounter logs are COMPLETELY IGNORED in favor of Zeelots story time.

Many things are possible my friend; I can fit many stories to these two logs just as well as you. The burden of proof is on you to show that it actually happened, and this you cannot do.

[Autotune]

How is there no merit in fixing your personal logs if they are used for backup on an server encounter log that is inconclusive in regards to what your PERSONAL LOGS are claiming? Fail number 1.

How exactly are you claiming that your DA tanking of Trak matches with the server encounter log engage that you had 5 seconds after Option when following this timestamp trail leads to the IMPOSSIBLE event of you DA tanking Trakanon when more than 6 other people are also on Trakanon's hate list? Fail number 2.

I have already explained all this. It seems that instead of actually addressing what I showed in your logs and the encounter logs, you instead want to talk only about the precise game mechanics that would give you the result you want in the event that what you are saying actually happened. Unfortunately, what you are saying did not happen.

You can build castles in the sky all day if you want; I want to know if those castles you are building actually fucking exist.

I'm starting to feel very sad for you.

[Tiggles]

Page 60 FE still doesn't have loot.

GMS just messages Zeelot into talking about his new VS information as well.

Thanks,

Steve

[Godefroi]

Good, good. Going to grab dinner with Perun tomorrow night. You know you're welcome to join us, anytime.

Fights about Trak FTE still going on? Aren't we coming up on the 2 year anniversary of the server first Trak kill?

Yup. Still, TMO had to cheat with the logs to get last one.

meh meh.

[Tanthallas]

Is there a fraps of this encounter? Where did the proof that option FD'ed his FTE thus awarding it to Zeelot?

Seeing as Option damaging Trakanon is nowhere in Zeelots logs, Option apparently does 538 damage with a stealth Javelin.

[Godefroi]

Page 60 FE still doesn't have loot.

GMS just messages Zeelot into talking about his new VS information as well.

Thanks,

Steve

Marrese's logs were still fake.

You should thank steve for helping this server out, fighting TMO's cheat policy ;)

[falkun]

However, it is interesting to note that some previous decisions were very strict in their application of the FTE rule. Even if your raid force completely wiped or if you had a single name on the mob (with FTE) you could win the mob. It seems that P99 caselaw is very much evolving to a true FTE with good faith and actual intent as opposed to a strict "First to grab aggro" or "first to grab and maintain a chain of aggro even if you have no intent to kill the mob."

It does appear this is the case. My only QQ is that this shift seems to be applied when it benefits TMO. In this instance, TMO engages 5 seconds after Option has FTE (apparantly after Merkk dies) and TMO is awarded loot, yet when TMO DA-tanks for 36 seconds before getting a non-FD class on Trak, they still retain the loot. It could be as simple as one side is much better at arguing their case than the other, but it looks fishy to me. Either way, as one TMO put it (paraphrasing) this is a lot of arguing for a mob that'll respawn in ~3days.

[47shadesofgay]

There is none.

Zeelot is merely attempting to argue that this is a possibility; not that it happened. What is even more comical is he is providing his own personal logs as a basis for claiming that it is possible. The server encounter logs are COMPLETELY IGNORED in favor of Zeelots story time.

Many things are possible my friend; I can fit many stories to these two logs just as well as you. The burden of proof is on you to show that it actually happened, and this you cannot do.

In all fairness to Zeelot, the GM's also came to this conclusion. I just want to know what evidence proves this.

The fact that my signature exists only furthers this shadyness.

We've switched the topic pretty handidly though.

[Tanthallas]

I'm starting to feel very sad for you.

I dont know why to be honest; my argument has not changed in one bit since this started.

You guys, on the other hand...

[maverixdamighty]

It does appear this is the case. My only QQ is that this shift seems to be applied when it benefits TMO. In this instance, TMO engages 5 seconds after Option has FTE (apparantly after Merkk dies) and TMO is awarded loot, yet when TMO DA-tanks for 36 seconds before getting a non-FD class on Trak, they still retain the loot. It could be as simple as one side is much better at arguing their case than the other, but it looks fishy to me. Either way, as one TMO put it (paraphrasing) this is a lot of arguing for a mob that'll respawn in ~3days.

[Ele]

There is none.

Zeelot is merely attempting to argue that this is a possibility; not that it happened. What is even more comical is he is providing his own personal logs as a basis for claiming that it is possible. The server encounter logs are COMPLETELY IGNORED in favor of Zeelots story time.

Many things are possible my friend; I can fit many stories to these two logs just as well as you. The burden of proof is on you to show that it actually happened, and this you cannot do.

Actually the burden of proof would be on you, since the ruling has already been made.

The Court of RNF is found to be lacking in jurisdiction and is an improper venue. Steve's motion for reconsideration of the Trakanon ruling is denied with prejudice. Sloan must compenstate each poster in this thread to the sum of 1x Fungi Tunic for all the time he has wasted. Steve is further enjoined from making further posts regarding this subject matter; any further postings regarding this subject matter will be considered contempt of the Court of RNF and punishable by suspension.

[Autotune]

I dont know why to be honest; my argument has not changed in one bit since this started.

You guys, on the other hand...

You haven't proven anything or if you have, it is lost in the mass assumptions you have thrown around.

So while your argument may not have changed, it doesn't make it a great one.

[maverixdamighty]

Actually the burden of proof would be on you, since the ruling has already been made.

The Court of RNF is found to be lacking in jurisdiction and is an improper venue. Steve's motion for reconsideration of the Trakanon ruling is denied with prejudice. Sloan must compenstate each poster in this thread to the sum of 1x Fungi Tunic for all the time he has wasted. Steve is further enjoined from making further posts regarding this subject matter; any further postings regarding this subject matter will be considered contempt of the Court of RNF and punishable by suspension.

agree with this point. tmo got the loot despite the server logs showing us with FTE so sadly the burden of proof is on us to provide logs or to clearly show their logs are fake.

[Tiggles]

Objection!

Sloan is obviously not build by reason of mental defect.

He (like most of his guild) dont know what the fuck they are doing.

[Tanthallas]

In all fairness to Zeelot, the GM's also came to this conclusion. I just want to know what evidence proves this. .

Well you asked for it: seeing as it is public information on both guild boards, I will post the guides evidence. It is exactly what I have been saying it was, as you will see.

Zeelot was the first to engage and tags Trakanon
Trakanon Agros Zeelot (Landing FTE)
Merkk goes in and tags Trakanon.
Zeelot FD's
Trakanon Agros Merrk. Merkk dies.
Trakanon Resets.
Option runs in and Jav'd Trakanon
Trakanon Agros Option (landing FTE)
Zeelot Stands up.
Option FD's
Trakanon Agros Zeelot, breaking hide. Zeelot goes DA.
Then Trakanon dies

"Getting down to it. Had Zeelot stayed FD until after Option FD, Trak would have reset.

Because of when he decided to stand up, it prevented the encounter resetting.

Based on the evidence that we see, and the logs provided, the kill will go to The Mystical Order.

And before you rebuttal back Forceful Entry about FD not being FTE, I want you to look at what your 2 Monks did before any encounter with another FE member. This was not the case with The Mystical Order.

This is our final ruling on this matter. Since TMO already has the loot, there will be no need to handle it any more from our end."


Now what I have bolded is very strange because, well, there is NO EVIDENCE of what 'our 2 Monks' did before 'any encounter with another FE member'. Merkk did exactly what Darkdeath did the Trak before this - he DA idol held Trak then whirlwind held Trak. Option did what every player trying to get FTE for a guild to go engage would do - wait for reset and grab it. It is simply assumed that something particular happened - and this something is 100% being based off of Zeelots personal logs and the argument he fed the guide. As a matter of fact, it is wrong and completely inconsistent with any match between the server encounter logs and Zeelots logs.

[Tiggles]

Objection!

Sloan is obviously not guilty by reason of mental defect.

He (like most of his guild) dont know what the fuck they are doing.

[Ele]

This is our final ruling on this matter. Since TMO already has the loot, there will be no need to handle it any more from our end.

[Tiggles]

Better luck next trak.

[maverixdamighty]

Better luck next trak.

better luck next vs.

[Tanthallas]

Thanks Ele; you are a champion of redundancy.

Do I need to quote Sirken about being able to appeal GM decisions after a ruling has been made, or are we all of the proper age to understand that putting what you want to see in large bold letters does not really do much but waste space?

[maverixdamighty]

Thanks Ele; you are a champion of redundancy.

Do I need to quote Sirken about being able to appeal GM decisions after a ruling has been made, or are we all of the proper age to understand that putting what you want to see in large bold letters does not really do much but waste space?

you realize these are the guys claiming merkk was doing an emote in the logs right? LOL.

[getsome]

How was it determined that option f'd'd. Are we missing some Fraps?

[Frieza_Prexus]

or are we all of the proper age to understand that putting what you want to see in large bold letters does not really do much but waste space?

Actually, I think he's trying to rile you up. It looks like it's working pretty well instead of wasting space.

[Tanthallas]

Actually, I think he's trying to rile you up. It looks like it's working pretty well instead of wasting space.

Im tracking and I can only read so much economic theory until I want to jump out of my window. Some of these guys even make economists look like they make sense.

[falkun]

It does appear this is the case. My only QQ is that this shift seems to be applied when it benefits TMO. In this instance, TMO engages 5 seconds after Option has FTE (apparantly after Merkk dies) and TMO is awarded loot, yet when TMO DA-tanks for 36 seconds before getting a non-FD class on Trak, they still retain the loot. It could be as simple as one side is much better at arguing their case than the other, but it looks fishy to me. Either way, as one TMO put it (paraphrasing) this is a lot of arguing for a mob that'll respawn in ~3days.

Lets review the server logs for both:
"TMO DA-tank where FE gets EXP" Trak:

1 Darkdeath (132401)[806] (O) The Mystical Order 60 Necromancer 10:14:20 0 10:15:20 60 0 20 71
2 Option (332777)[801] (O) Forceful Entry 60 Monk 10:14:37 17 10:15:20 43 0 2285 1221
3 Zeelot (122568)[776] (L) The Mystical Order 60 Shadow Knight 10:14:49 29 10:15:20 31 0 19 23
4 Szeth (149541)[814] Forceful Entry 60 Monk 10:14:56 36 10:15:20 24 0 721 827
5 Kegluas (69548)[774] The Mystical Order 60 Warrior 10:14:56 36 10:15:20 24 0 322 1300

36 seconds between TMO FTE and first non-FD class aggro.
"Option has FTE but TMO gets loot" Trak:
1 Option (332777)[775] (O) Forceful Entry 60 Monk 21:51:45 0 21:52:36 51 0 502 580
2 Zeelot (122568)[727] (L) The Mystical Order 60 Shadow Knight 21:51:50 5 21:52:14 24 0 80 287
3 Kleavage (309071)[742] The Mystical Order 60 Warrior 21:52:04 19 21:52:36 32 11211 2193 1886
4 Biggslick (306149)[726] The Mystical Order 60 Warrior 21:52:04 19 21:52:18 14 11210 566 2250
5 Raden (304670)[743] The Mystical Order 60 Shaman 21:52:05 20 21:52:36 31 11210 0 95
6 Kautin (295749)[774] The Mystical Order 60 Monk 21:52:05 20 21:52:36 31 0 1490 1846
7 Thrump (252350)[746] The Mystical Order 60 Shadow Knight 21:52:07 22 21:52:36 29 11211 1388 1704
8 Egue (8049)[751] Forceful Entry 60 Shadow Knight 21:52:09 24 21:52:36 27 0 253 549
9 Chief (33263)[776] The Mystical Order 60 Monk 21:52:09 24 21:52:36 27 11215 3041 2069
10 Redonk (280590)[741] The Mystical Order 60 Bard 21:52:09 24 21:52:36 27 11210 191 297
11 Adrenaline (30537)[781] The Mystical Order 60 Monk 21:52:10 25 21:52:36 26 0 857 1194
12 Zucantiz (293121)[725] The Mystical Order 60 Monk 21:52:11 26 21:52:36 25 11210 1379 1217
13 Sericx (76355)[2511] The Mystical Order 60 Monk 21:52:11 26 21:52:36 25 11215 1750 1516
14 Arkyiane (86950)[773] The Mystical Order 60 Rogue 21:52:12 27 21:52:36 24 0 3874 1831
15 Houdiny (331928)[732] Forceful Entry 60 Wizard 21:52:13 28 21:52:27 14 0 1650 1750
28 seconds between FTE and first non-FD class aggro. I will give props to TMO for putting 12 bodies on Trak in that time-frame though, much improved over the trickle in of the last Trak.

The only difference, which I can't tell definitively, is whether Option stayed non-FD until another FE (it would be Egue) obtained aggro before Houdiny was added to the list. Houdiny also appears to have been killed by Trak, but by the time Houdiny dies, Unbrella and other FE are on the aggro list.

Assuming Option was not FD before Egue entered the aggro list, this shouldn't be any different than the original Trak that began this thread and FE should have loot, not 2x TMO loots.

[Tanthallas]

How was it determined that option f'd'd. Are we missing some Fraps?

Zeelots logs.

[Ele]

Thanks Ele; you are a champion of redundancy.

Do I need to quote Sirken about being able to appeal GM decisions after a ruling has been made, or are we all of the proper age to understand that putting what you want to see in large bold letters does not really do much but waste space?

So RNF is the appropriate forum for appealing GM decisions now?

Please tell me how a 1200 post thread in RNF is supposed to reverse this decision?

[Ele]

Zeelots logs.

We certainly haven't seen Merkk or Option's logs to contradict. Gotta use what is available.

[Tiggles]

So RNF is the appropriate forum for appealing GM decisions now?

Please tell me how a 1200 post thread in RNF is supposed to reverse this decision?

1206*

[Tanthallas]

So RNF is the appropriate forum for appealing GM decisions now?

Please tell me how a 1200 post thread in RNF is supposed to reverse this decision?

No. RnF is the appropriate forum for making people like you look like fools; dont think for a second that a formal petition has not been submitted.

[Szeth1]

Szeth shouldn't count for FTE, as he has been unbanned despite being sold for USD.

[Tiggles]

So RNF is the appropriate forum for appealing GM decisions now?

Please tell me how a 1200 post thread in RNF is supposed to reverse this decision?

Sloan uses RNF for everything petition related.

Like getting his MQ banned characters back

Isn't that right Steve?

[Tanthallas]

We certainly haven't seen Merkk or Option's logs to contradict. Gotta use what is available.

Exactly.

The evidence OUTSIDE of the encounter logs is completely INCONCLUSIVE.

So why is it that the server encounter logs are not being used to decide the outcome, but instead the gaggle fuck that is Zeelots personal logs?

[maverixdamighty]

Sloan uses RNF for everything petition related.

Like getting his MQ banned characters back

Isn't that right Steve?

unlike eccezan? lol!

[Frieza_Prexus]

I can only read so much economic theory until I want to jump out of my window.

Buy high, sell low.

[Tanthallas]

Szeth shouldn't count for FTE, as he has been unbanned despite being sold for USD.

Yeah my purchase of Szeth for in game items and platinum was verified; as well as the date at which I began to use him.

So you can stop this.

I do appreciate the many TMO petitions though; makes me feel good to know you are thinking about me.

[ivosik]

Pro tip fe: get a monk that's not a noob like Merkk to get fte, no monk should be dieing to trak with a da idol and ww disc. If fte monk doesn't die gg. Also tant you keep saying zeelot got fte then merkk tagged it off of him, derp raid interference?

[Ele]

No. RnF is the appropriate forum for making people like you look like fools; dont think for a second that a formal petition has not been submitted.

lol

[Szeth1]

No Sloan. I am the original Szeth. I sold him for USD, and he was subsequently banned. If you can explain under what pretense he was UNBANNED I will drop it.

Ok go!

[Ele]

No Sloan. I am the original Szeth. I sold him for USD, and he was subsequently banned. If you can explain under what pretense he was UNBANNED I will drop it.

Ok go!

Time heals all wounds apparently.

[getsome]

From what I read on our boards, sorry Malcolm, I see nothing in Zeelot logs that demonstrate option being FD. One can attempt to infer that it was a possibility but nothing definite. I don't have a pony in this race , but was just attempting to understand how the gm or guide arrived at the conclusion that option was FD.

[maverixdamighty]

No Sloan. I am the original Szeth. I sold him for USD, and he was subsequently banned. If you can explain under what pretense he was UNBANNED I will drop it.

Ok go!

i think you'd have to ask the person who got him unbanned and then sold him?

[maverixdamighty]

From what I read on our boards, sorry Malcolm, I see nothing in Zeelot logs that demonstrate option being FD. One can attempt to infer that it was a possibility but nothing definite. I don't have a pony in this race , but was just attempting to understand how the gm or guide arrived at the conclusion that option was FD.

even if he did FD trak never reset. i'm unsure if he did or did not as well though.

[Szeth1]

You'd think you'd want to know the history of a character you bought no? Szeth was also flagged for MQ in the original wave of suspensions (wasn't me I was on sabbatical).

If it's just time, are other accounts that were banned around the same time unbanned?

[Zeelot]

From what I read on our boards, sorry Malcolm, I see nothing in Zeelot logs that demonstrate option being FD. One can attempt to infer that it was a possibility but nothing definite. I don't have a pony in this race , but was just attempting to understand how the gm or guide arrived at the conclusion that option was FD.

Was probably a bunch of things, but I can't say for sure what they used to decide.

- Option appeared on the encounter list multiple times, which= good chance that he FDd + stood later.
- My logs have Trak on me when I get up from FD while hidden, and continuing to hit me while DA, meaning no one else was aggro at the time.
- Whatever else the GM logs showed that I don't know about

[Tanthallas]

No Sloan. I am the original Szeth. I sold him for USD, and he was subsequently banned. If you can explain under what pretense he was UNBANNED I will drop it.

Ok go!

I really dont care what you did, to be honest, nor can I answer your question. You most likely wont find the answer here anyway.

[maverixdamighty]

Was probably a bunch of things, but I can't say for sure what they used to decide.

- Option appeared on the encounter list multiple times, which= good chance that he FDd + stood later.
- My logs have Trak on me when I get up from FD while hidden, and continuing to hit me while DA, meaning no one else was aggro at the time.
- Whatever else the GM logs showed that I don't know about

so explanation for mavtank being on agro list twice on last trak logs = me fd'ing as well?

[Tiggles]

No Sloan. I am the original Szeth. I sold him for USD, and he was subsequently banned. If you can explain under what pretense he was UNBANNED I will drop it.

Ok go!

I looked into it and he was unbanned by someone other then "head GM" Sirken.

This same person also unbanned other IB owned RMT accounts like durison allowing them to be RMTd again to people like Sloan here..


I'm not gonna say it was rogean because I don't know if it was rogean.

[maverixdamighty]

I looked into it and he was unbanned by someone other then "head GM" Sirken.

This same person also unbanned other IB owned RMT accounts like durison allowing them to be RMTd again to people like Sloan here..


I'm not gonna say it was rogean because I don't know if it was rogean.

maybe they felt like szeth made up for the 100k + green scale you guys bitched out on?

[Tiggles]

maybe they felt like szeth made up for the 100k + green scale you guys bitched out on?

If that was the case it would just 100% prove someone is back doing their dirty tricks again.

[maverixdamighty]

If that was the case it would just 100% prove someone is back doing their dirty tricks again.

alarti is back to making bets he won't live up to? shame on him!

[Tanthallas]

Was probably a bunch of things, but I can't say for sure what they used to decide.

- Option appeared on the encounter list multiple times, which= good chance that he FDd + stood later.
- My logs have Trak on me when I get up from FD while hidden, and continuing to hit me while DA, meaning no one else was aggro at the time.
- Whatever else the GM logs showed that I don't know about

1. Option appeared 2 times. Option also has a recorded 538 damage on his first encounter list. The story claims that Option Javelin'd, you stood up, then Option FD'd. This is clearly not true. Option went in and whirl-winded. He did not FD until well after FE had engaged, as that is exactly what he was waiting for...

2. Your logs, which show Trakanon hitting you while you are invulnerable, are inconsistent with the server encounter logs. IF Trakanon indeed hit you when you got up from FD while hidden, and continnued to hit you while DA'd; and IF this was 5 seconds after Option on the server encounter log; THEN the timestamp match of this would conclude that you continued to maintain aggro on Trakanon while DA while more than 6 people had been added to Trakanons aggro list.

The only way this is possible is if the timestamps on your logs were altered or you slowed/sped up your internal clock. If either of these happened, your logs are INVALID.

3. The GM logs show nothing you are unaware about. The GM logs were not even used, other than to support your CLAIM that Option FD'd before FE engaged.

[maverixdamighty]

both sides think they are right let's just let this thread die.

[Ele]

Where are Merkk and Option's logs?

[falkun]

- My logs have Trak on me when I get up from FD while hidden, and continuing to hit me while DA, meaning no one else was aggro at the time.

If Option was DA'd when Zeelot stood up, Trak would immediately come after Zeelot since Zeelot was aggro'd but not DA (until after the initial round of 2x Trak miss, according to Zeelot's logs). Once Zeelot DA'd, then both Zeelot and Option are now DA'd and I would assume Trak would stay on whomever he was currently hitting, in this case Zeelot. Your quote there is not the only possible explanation for Trak hitting you while you are DA'd.

[Tanthallas]

I mean, I am not throwing out assumptions here;

Zeelots cannot reconcile his claims of what happened on his own logs with the server encounter logs. I want to know why.

[Tanthallas]

If Option was DA'd when Zeelot stood up, Trak would immediately come after Zeelot since Zeelot was aggro'd but not DA (until after the initial round of 2x Trak miss, according to Zeelot's logs). Once Zeelot DA'd, then both Zeelot and Option are now DA'd and I would assume Trak would stay on whomever he was currently hitting, in this case Zeelot. Your quote there is not the only possible explanation for Trak hitting you while you are DA'd.

Exactly.

[kotton05]

Pro tip fe: get a monk that's not a noob like Merkk to get fte, no monk should be dieing to trak with a da idol and ww disc. If fte monk doesn't die gg. Also tant you keep saying zeelot got fte then merkk tagged it off of him, derp raid interference?

I logged in, got fte mere seconds before zealot, DA'd then whirlwind, first aoe hit me. by the time my ww ended. second tic of aoe went off. I never ran in. I blocked his initial "positioning" of trak. therefor he had to wait for it to reset giving option time to get agro before him. nice try.

ivo, is the best you can do is call me a nub? hah, I bet your mom wishes she swallowed you.
go back to hating someone you don't know.

[ivosik]

Merkk and option logs please so you can both stfu. There's 100% chance merkk doesn't have logs.

[Zeelot]

He wasn't DA'd or there would've been a cast message from the clickie. Not just my logs but all logs I've seen, which have cast messages of people in the area. Your boy never cast DA.

And if you want me to prove it to you with another mechanic test I can, if we were both DA, Trakanon would have still prioritized Option.

[Tanthallas]

He wasn't DA'd or there would've been a cast message from the clickie.

The problem is your logs seem to be missing quite a lot of information like this.

1. Merkk never hit.
2. Merkk never dies.
3. Option never FD.
4. Trakanon spell never finalizes (he casts; doesnt say who / what resisted or was hit).
etc....

[Tanthallas]

And if you want me to prove it to you with another mechanic test I can, if we were both DA, Trakanon would have still prioritized Option.

I want you to tell me why your personal logs do not match the server encounter logs for your engage 5 seconds after Option.

[kotton05]

Where are Merkk logs?

My logs don't matter. Wouldn't show much anyways because what I did was ALL before zeelots logs. When zeelot got aggro is when the aoe took me out on the second tic after da/ww. I never ran in. Zeelot had to wait for me, but in petition I ran in and fizzled a spell... after death.
Which is not true.
I've talked to zeelot, He also agree's I didn't run in and he had to wait for me.
the real issue is....

FE got FTE
Guide using personal logs over server
I fizzle spells beyond the grave

[Zeelot]

It should match fine, as all my logs in the past have matched up as well with the server logs. You guys are really off the deep-end thinking I would do anything to the logs.

[maverixdamighty]

He wasn't DA'd or there would've been a cast message from the clickie. Not just my logs but all logs I've seen, which have cast messages of people in the area. Your boy never cast DA.

And if you want me to prove it to you with another mechanic test I can, if we were both DA, Trakanon would have still prioritized Option.

he da'd before you were even in lair is how it sounded like in vent. he made it sound like he was first person on trak period.

[Ele]

The problem is your logs seem to be missing quite a lot of information like this.

1. Merkk never hit.
2. Merkk never dies.
3. Option never FD.
4. Trakanon spell never finalizes (he casts; doesnt say who / what resisted or was hit).
etc....

Certainly, Merkk and Option's logs will prove you right. Right?

[Tanthallas]

It should match fine, as all my logs in the past have matched up as well with the server logs. You guys are really off the deep-end thinking I would do anything to the logs.

You can say this all you want.

Do I need to post the proof that this is not true again, or can you go back a few pages and find it?

[Loke]

No bullshit, I could 100% get this loot awarded to IB. 100%.

Kins #1 rule lawyer of p99. Out lawyers actual lawyers. Confirmed by Rogean.

[Ele]

You can say this all you want.

Do I need to post the conjecturethat this is not true again, or can you go back a few pages and find it?

ftfy

[47shadesofgay]

1. Option appeared 2 times. Option also has a recorded 538 damage on his first encounter list. The story claims that Option Javelin'd, you stood up, then Option FD'd. This is clearly not true. Option went in and whirl-winded. He did not FD until well after FE had engaged, as that is exactly what he was waiting for....

Why can nobody prove this? We know what the GMs have ruled, so option posting his logs, or somebody posting fraps should be the easiest fucking thing in the world to over-turn something like this.

Are people really not running/fraps/enabling logs on raiding? If that's the case then I guess people deserve to lose mobs.

That is how loot is decided, even with all of Zeelot's inconsistencies, SOME measure of proof must be put forth by the claiment in order to reverse a decision I would think.

[Ele]

Why can nobody prove this? We know what the GMs have ruled, so option posting his logs, or somebody posting fraps should be the easiest fucking thing in the world to over-turn something like this.

Are people really not running/fraps/enabling logs on raiding? If that's the case then I guess people deserve to lose mobs.

That is how loot is decided, even with all of Zeelot's inconsistencies, SOME measure of proof must be put forth by the claiment in order to reverse a decision I would think.

:eek:

[Servellious]

WASHER SET TO SPIN

[47shadesofgay]

Kins #1 rule lawyer of p99. Out lawyers actual lawyers. Confirmed by Rogean.

Kinsawt confirmed wore suit/tux while raiding.

[Zeelot]

You mean this?
. Your logs, which show Trakanon hitting you while you are invulnerable, are inconsistent with the server encounter logs. IF Trakanon indeed hit you when you got up from FD while hidden, and continnued to hit you while DA'd; and IF this was 5 seconds after Option on the server encounter log; THEN the timestamp match of this would conclude that you continued to maintain aggro on Trakanon while DA while more than 6 people had been added to Trakanons aggro list.

If you wanted the logs from when more people engaged I have that too. It was on Biggslick after me. He was one of the first bunch of TMO to engage after me.

[Sun Mar 10 21:53:06 2013] Trakanon tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:06 2013] Trakanon tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:07 2013] Angerclaw says, 'torpor lfg'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:07 2013] Unbrella begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Envite begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Players on EverQuest:
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] ---------------------------
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 Grandmaster] Chief (Human) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 Sorcerer] Acillatem (Human) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Arkyiane <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Twaila
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Tombola <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Kautin <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Saragirl <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 High Priest] Apostle (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Aenarie <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Thrump <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Kaimandroth <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Xarzzardorn
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Kleavage
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Raden <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Aalamar <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Redonk <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Gadfly <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Zucantiz <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 High Priest] Alyssya (High Elf) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Biggslick <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 High Priest] Nothing (Gnome) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Sericx <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Zilo <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [59 Troubadour] Dalven (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Montyzuma <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Ipoql
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Zeelot <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] There are 27 players in Old Sebilis.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:10 2013] Tanasg begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:10 2013] Acillatem tells the guild, 'WIZ LFG'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:11 2013] Chief tells the guild, 'lfg'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:12 2013] Trakanon begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:14 2013] You say to your guild, 'GO GO GO'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:22 2013] Trakanon beams a smile at Biggslick
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:22 2013] Trakanon says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'

[Tanthallas]

Why can nobody prove this? We know what the GMs have ruled, so option posting his logs, or somebody posting fraps should be the easiest fucking thing in the world to over-turn something like this.

Are people really not running/fraps/enabling logs on raiding? If that's the case then I guess people deserve to lose mobs.

That is how loot is decided, even with all of Zeelot's inconsistencies, SOME measure of proof must be put forth by the claiment in order to reverse a decision I would think.

Showing that Zeelots claims on what happened on his personal logs cannot be reconciled with the server encounter logs is not proof enough?

[Zeelot]

Unfortunately my melee hits aren't turned on, so it's the best I have.

[Tanthallas]

Sorry, but these logs show nothing in regards to my claim.

You mean this?


If you wanted the logs from when more people engaged I have that too. It was on Biggslick after me. He was one of the first bunch of TMO to engage after me.

[Sun Mar 10 21:53:06 2013] Trakanon tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:06 2013] Trakanon tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:07 2013] Angerclaw says, 'torpor lfg'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:07 2013] Unbrella begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Envite begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Players on EverQuest:
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] ---------------------------
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 Grandmaster] Chief (Human) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 Sorcerer] Acillatem (Human) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Arkyiane <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Twaila
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Tombola <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Kautin <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Saragirl <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 High Priest] Apostle (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Aenarie <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Thrump <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Kaimandroth <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Xarzzardorn
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Kleavage
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Raden <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Aalamar <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Redonk <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Gadfly <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Zucantiz <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 High Priest] Alyssya (High Elf) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Biggslick <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 High Priest] Nothing (Gnome) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Sericx <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Zilo <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [59 Troubadour] Dalven (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Montyzuma <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Ipoql
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Zeelot <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] There are 27 players in Old Sebilis.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:10 2013] Tanasg begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:10 2013] Acillatem tells the guild, 'WIZ LFG'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:11 2013] Chief tells the guild, 'lfg'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:12 2013] Trakanon begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:14 2013] You say to your guild, 'GO GO GO'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:22 2013] Trakanon beams a smile at Biggslick
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:22 2013] Trakanon says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'

[Ele]

My logs don't matter. Wouldn't show much anyways because what I did was ALL before zeelots logs. When zeelot got aggro is when the aoe took me out on the second tic after da/ww. I never ran in. Zeelot had to wait for me, but in petition I ran in and fizzled a spell... after death.
Which is not true.
I've talked to zeelot, He also agree's I didn't run in and he had to wait for me.
the real issue is....

FE got FTE
Guide using personal logs over server
I fizzle spells beyond the grave

Claims to be first engager.

Logs irrelevant.

[47shadesofgay]

You mean this?


If you wanted the logs from when more people engaged I have that too. It was on Biggslick after me. He was one of the first bunch of TMO to engage after me.

[Sun Mar 10 21:53:06 2013] Trakanon tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:06 2013] Trakanon tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:07 2013] Angerclaw says, 'torpor lfg'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:07 2013] Unbrella begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Envite begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Sebilite juggernaut tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] Players on EverQuest:
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] ---------------------------
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 Grandmaster] Chief (Human) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 Sorcerer] Acillatem (Human) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Arkyiane <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Twaila
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Tombola <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Kautin <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Saragirl <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 High Priest] Apostle (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Aenarie <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Thrump <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Kaimandroth <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Xarzzardorn
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Kleavage
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Raden <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Aalamar <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Redonk <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Gadfly <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Zucantiz <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 High Priest] Alyssya (High Elf) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Biggslick <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [60 High Priest] Nothing (Gnome) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Sericx <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Zilo <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [59 Troubadour] Dalven (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Montyzuma <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Ipoql
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] [ANONYMOUS] Zeelot <The Mystical Order>
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:08 2013] There are 27 players in Old Sebilis.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:10 2013] Tanasg begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:10 2013] Acillatem tells the guild, 'WIZ LFG'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:11 2013] Chief tells the guild, 'lfg'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:12 2013] Trakanon begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:14 2013] You say to your guild, 'GO GO GO'
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:22 2013] Trakanon beams a smile at Biggslick
[Sun Mar 10 21:53:22 2013] Trakanon says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'

Uhh.. what was Trakanon doing between the 6 seconds he hit you and then began to cast a spell, and then the 12 seconds between casting a spell and beaming a smile at Biggslick?

[47shadesofgay]

Showing that Zeelots claims on what happened on his personal logs cannot be reconciled with the server encounter logs is not proof enough?

No.

[kotton05]

Claims to be first engager.

Logs irrelevant.

I died, trak reset, there for irrelevant.

[Tanthallas]

Uhh.. what was Trakanon doing between the 6 seconds he hit you and then began to cast a spell, and then the 12 seconds between casting a spell and beaming a smile at Biggslick?

Being put into a time machine.

[Ele]

Uhh.. what was Trakanon doing between the 6 seconds he hit you and then began to cast a spell, and then the 12 seconds between casting a spell and beaming a smile at Biggslick?

Probably running back and forth like a chicken with its head cut off.

Or could be that other's hits/misses and getting hit/misses are filtered out so they never get recorded to the log.

[Tiggles]

Whole lot of upset FE in this thread.

[Ele]

I died, trak reset, there for irrelevant.

In the time you took to respond to this, you could have cut and paste the relevant portion of your attempted FTE. It could lead to information relevant to this discussion, I would hope you reconsider your decision to withhold this potentially relevant information.

[47shadesofgay]

Probably running back and forth like a chicken with its head cut off.

Or could be that other's hits/misses and getting hit/misses are filtered out so they never get recorded to the log.

So Zeelot didn't fight? He literally just DA'd then stood there for 18 seconds after grabbing FTE? Nor Did AE's hit him?

[Tanthallas]

No.

But that is what their decision is based on.....and even so, it is not consistently based on it. My questions have yet to be answered:

1. Options first encounter log posts 538 damage. How is this possible if he FD'd after throwing a Javelin?
2. Why is Zeelot maintaining aggro while DA'd when many other people are engaged on Trak / on his hate list.

If it was based only on the encounter logs, would be clear cut.

[Zeelot]

The lifetap is timed so it means nothing, can't really tell what he was doing, but if you match it with server logs, the timing from traks last hit on me while invuln is right before tmo tanks engaged.


You guys are retards trying to determine anything from my 1 log alone without supplements from the server logs and your own logs. You know Sirken ruled on this too, wasn't just Alovia.

You just want something to cry about, so you try to call me out for doctored logs. Stay classy

[kotton05]

Whole lot of upset FE in this thread.

If idiots could fly, this would be an airport.

[maverixdamighty]

The lifetap is timed so it means nothing, can't really tell what he was doing, but if you match it with server logs, the timing from traks last hit on me while invuln is right before tmo tanks engaged.


You guys are retards trying to determine anything from my 1 log alone without supplements from the server logs and your own logs. You know Sirken ruled on this too, wasn't just Alovia.

You just want something to cry about, so you try to call me out for doctored logs. Stay classy

you still can't explain merrkk fizzling on your logs when he was dead before you were even there.

[kotton05]

you still can't explain merrkk fizzling on your logs when he was dead before you were even there.

he was there when I died, fd waiting.

[Ele]

2. Why is Zeelot maintaining aggro while DA'd when many other people are engaged on Trak / on his hate list.


Ladies and Gentlemen,

Sloan.

Have a good evening and tip your server.

This post has been brought to you by Audible. The Internet's leading provider of spoken audio entertainment.

[Ele]

you still can't explain merrkk fizzling on your logs when he was dead before you were even there.

he was there when I died, fd waiting.

Maybe if Merkk posted his log, could shed some light on this issue.

[47shadesofgay]

But that is what their decision is based on.....and even so, it is not consistently based on it. My questions have yet to be answered:

1. Options first encounter log posts 538 damage. How is this possible if he FD'd after throwing a Javelin?
2. Why is Zeelot maintaining aggro while DA'd when many other people are engaged on Trak / on his hate list.

If it was based only on the encounter logs, would be clear cut.

I think Zeelot's logs are just as doctored as the next guy (Monk's don't fizzle spells, no explanation offered for this has held up) but that alone probably isn't going to over-turn a GM decision without something else being added to the equation.

The reason being they've already made their decision, without something new coming to light, why would they overturn it? I think there's strong evidence Zeelot may have doctored his logs, but GMs have a track record of not reversing their calls without someone climbing to the top of Everest with 100lbs of server logs on their backs and shouting out they have proof at the top of their lungs.

It makes them look bad, so they don't do it. Same reason we aren't supposed to discuss it, but alas here we are.

I'm pulling for you I really am!

[Tanthallas]

You guys are retards trying to determine anything from my 1 log alone without supplements from the server logs and your own logs.

Tell me - what in particular about this ruling used the server log? It was based pretty much exclusively on YOUR personal logs and YOUR explanation of them.

You were testing the FD mechanic that fits with your story with Alovia for over 2 hours or so in WC later that night. You spent all this time testing this with Alovia because it supported your story, period. Showing that a mechanic works a particular way does not mean that you used that mechanic, however, unless you have proof that you did. Your logs do not prove this.

Isnt it strange that the reconstruction of what occured FROM YOUR LOGS that was put forth exactly fits the line that you were pushing when you were 'testing' this FD mechanic? Seeing as it had to be tested, i.e., it wasnt clear how it worked, I indeed find it strange that after you performed it multiple times the ruling made is based on it.

[Zeelot]

lol you think I intentionally typed that Merkk's spells fizzled? IF I were going to doctor anything I would remove that because it doesn't make sense. Ask Rogean how it happened. I have no idea how a monk fizzles, but that's what happened. Deal with it!

[47shadesofgay]

Also, in the future make sure every single monk on your raid is logging and running Fraps for encounters, and have your bards do the same when pulling. It's the only way you're ever going to win these types of ordeals, as Zeelot and his logs have just shown you.

The fact they weren't or haven't posted them yet for some reason cannot possibly help disprove anything Zeelot did or didn't do. We all know he's a scumlord, but unfortunately the GMs need "proof" of it in order to take action. Just like when he AE'd TR mobs at zone in during VS, dude's a fucking sociopath.

[AenarieFenninRo]

Tell me - what in particular about this ruling used the server log? It was based pretty much exclusively on YOUR personal logs and YOUR explanation of them.

You were testing the FD mechanic that fits with your story with Alovia for over 2 hours or so in WC later that night. You spent all this time testing this with Alovia because it supported your story, period. Showing that a mechanic works a particular way does not mean that you used that mechanic, however, unless you have proof that you did. Your logs do not prove this.

Isnt it strange that the reconstruction of what occured FROM YOUR LOGS that was put forth exactly fits the line that you were pushing when you were 'testing' this FD mechanic? Seeing as it had to be tested, i.e., it wasnt clear how it worked, I indeed find it strange that after you performed it multiple times the ruling made is based on it.

This argument right here.... amazing that you dont see the irony.

He stated this is what happened, and his logs show it... to validate it, GMs test it... and guess what, it proves to be correct!

Ruling made based on mechanics working this way, and yet.. here you are arguing that its all fake!

[Tanthallas]

Same reason we aren't supposed to discuss it, but alas here we are.

Well we should probably stop then.

I said my piece.

[47shadesofgay]

lol you think I intentionally typed that Merkk's spells fizzled? IF I were going to doctor anything I would remove that because it doesn't make sense. Ask Rogean how it happened. I have no idea how a monk fizzles, but that's what happened. Deal with it!

No I think you deleted a little too much off your log and that section got left.

Moreover you have a proven history of being a sociopath and a liar, and I would NEVER believe a single thing you or your guild do is legit. I don't in this case either, despite FE lacking common sense logs and fraps.

Anyway enjoy it while it lasts. :)

[Zeelot]

1. I was always clear how it worked, the 'testing' was to enlighten the GMs on the mechanic and provide conclusive evidence that an NPC will not go for 2nd aggro via FD memory, the NPC will always prioritize first aggro in such a case.

2. That mechanic was only part of this whole thing anyways, the second part being that Trak stayed on me while DA, meaning was on no one else

3. If option was also DA and somehow escaped everyone's spell logs, refer to 1, NPC will always prioritize first aggro over FD memory.

[kotton05]

This argument right here.... amazing that you dont see the irony.

He stated this is what happened, and his logs show it... to validate it, GMs test it... and guess what, it proves to be correct!

Ruling made based on mechanics working this way, and yet.. here you are arguing that its all fake!

Ok so fd will put you lower on the engage list. Confirmed

So if a MONK lets say Soandso gets fte. 2 fucking raids rush in to kill mob. He thens fd's once he see's tanks engage ='s him not having fte still. Sigh.... not how it works.

[Tanthallas]

This argument right here.... amazing that you dont see the irony.

He stated this is what happened, and his logs show it... to validate it, GMs test it... and guess what, it proves to be correct!

Ruling made based on mechanics working this way, and yet.. here you are arguing that its all fake!

I am saying that what he is doing is only POSSIBLE; it is never shown, nor can if be from the data he provided, that it is what happened. It is one of MANY possibilities; and it is not the best choice either, for when it is chosen it brings up many other issues which I have documented above.

If you want to talk more PM me about it; it is probably best to drop this on the public forums for now.

[Tiggles]

Is it over?

Is the thread dead yet?

[Halfelfbard]

https://images.4chan.org/b/src/1363205618305.gif

[getsome]

No bullshit, I could 100% get this loot awarded to IB. 100%.

s i r k e n

SKIE

Or maybe his brother.

[Ele]

https://images.4chan.org/b/src/1363205618305.gif


......and roll credits

[kotton05]

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[Szeth1]

I looked into it and he was unbanned by someone other then "head GM" Sirken.

This same person also unbanned other IB owned RMT accounts like durison allowing them to be RMTd again to people like Sloan here..


I'm not gonna say it was rogean because I don't know if it was rogean.

This is more at stake here than just a single Trak. THIS IS ABOUT SERVER INTEGRITY.

[Tiggles]

This is more at stake here than just a single Trak. THIS IS ABOUT SERVER INTEGRITY.

Agreed!

White knight Tiggles and Dark knight Szeth will take the case!

[White Ranger]

[QUOTE=47shadesofgay;884851]unfortunately the GMs need "proof" of it in order to take action[QUOTE]

[chief]

My logs don't matter. Wouldn't show much anyways because what I did was ALL before zeelots logs. When zeelot got aggro is when the aoe took me out on the second tic after da/ww. I never ran in. Zeelot had to wait for me, but in petition I ran in and fizzled a spell... after death.
Which is not true.
I've talked to zeelot, He also agree's I didn't run in and he had to wait for me.
the real issue is....

FE got FTE
Guide using personal logs over server
I fizzle spells beyond the grave

so pretty much you don't have logs aka you don't have anything to stand on. I can do that too: HEy guys, i was in trak lair even before merkk shooting fire works at trakanon, then i da idoled brought trak into position then merkk came and stole trak from me da idoled. My logs won;t matter though!!!!!

[Kinsawt]

You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can't take this -- how can you take the abuse you get Rule Lawyering?! You don't like it -- leave. I can go out there tonight with the logs you got, make myself fifteen thousand Dolan's Breastplates! Tonight! In two hours! Can you? Can you? Go and do likewise! A-I-D-A!! Get mad! You sons of bitches! Get mad!! You know what it takes to Rule Lawyer?