FE Raid Scene Proposal

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Kope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't at all have to be that way. The Staff proposed plan lets you play the way you want, while it lets the tier 2 guilds play the way they want. No one is dictating how the other side should play, at all. Everyone gets what they want, everyone gets loot/dragons and the tier 1 teams get to compete without forcing everyone else into their playstyle.

That

[Tanthallas]

Originally Posted by Kope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't at all have to be that way. The Staff proposed plan lets you play the way you want, while it lets the tier 2 guilds play the way they want. No one is dictating how the other side should play, at all. Everyone gets what they want, everyone gets loot/dragons and the tier 1 teams get to compete without forcing everyone else into their playstyle.

You really need to reread the staff plan. I took the tiered system DIRECTLY from the staff plan. The only difference is Rogean said that the details of how the tiers were to be structured and how to move between tiers had yet to be worked out. I provided a very simple way for these details to be worked out.

Now, please stop throwing around rainbows with helmets on them and discuss what is actually being said here. HOW does the staff system let you 'play how you want to' and this system does not - do you even know WHAT the staff systems tiered progression is based on? HOW does this system limit you in a way that is unacceptable, both in relation to other plans and in relation to how things were? The sooner you let us know these RELEVANT issues, the sooner we can begin to have a more fruitful discussion.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You really need to reread the staff plan. I took the tiered system DIRECTLY from the staff plan. The only difference is Rogean said that the details of how the tiers were to be structured and how to move between tiers had yet to be worked out. I provided a very simple way for these details to be worked out.

Now, please stop throwing around rainbows with helmets on them and discuss what is actually being said here. HOW does the staff system let you 'play how you want to' and this system does not - do you even know WHAT the staff systems tiered progression is based on?

Because with the staff plan no one has to compete with the tier 1 guilds unless they choose to. In your plan the last half of the month you're forcing anyone that wants anything to do with raiding into your playstyle. We don't want anything to do with that anymore, however we would prefer not to stop you from playing what way you want to.

We want you to have fun and play the way you want, why is it not ok for us to play the way we want while not infringing on your playstyle at all?

[Mezzmur]

The only given in the staff plan (as I read it) is that it's highly likely to be a 4 guild rotation with FTE races. That's not to say that tier 2 couldn't have a rotation on the odd weeks, but that's up to them. What this plan adds is what mobs are in Tier 1 & Tier 2's pools, it seems.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Fuddwin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's been said quite a few times concerning the fact that someone is trying to tell someone else how to play EQ? But yet, it's ok for YOU to tell someone else how to play? Like I said in a post in another thread, in not these exact words, this will be a never ending discussion and everyone is gonna have to agree to disagree... But I'm not telling you to do so...

No one is telling you how to play... Merely suggesting certain things that would seem to some fair... Taken for instance, has gotten the last few Inny's... Did someone tell them had to play a certain way to get Inny? No... Did they do what was needed? Yes... FE/IB has done what was needed to compete with TMO... And succeeded... Now.. If Taken wants to camp at Trak and batphone the spawn, they can... Will they get it as easily as Inny? Prolly not.. But who knows anything until they try?

/rant

Poor "Casuals" (Variety)

woah there

was just quoting your buddy yelling at someone to play a dif game bc they didnt want to play EQ his way.

No where can you find a definition of how to play EQ, so its funny to me that people get offended and say "find a different game that isnt how you play Everquest"

what they mean is "that isnt how I play Everquest"

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Mezzmur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only given in the staff plan (as I read it) is that it's highly likely to be a 4 guild rotation with FTE races. That's not to say that tier 2 couldn't have a rotation on the odd weeks, but that's up to them. What this plan adds is what mobs are in Tier 1 & Tier 2's pools, it seems.

Let Tier 2 worry about Tier 2, Tier 1 worry about Tier 1.

You guys can play however you want and we will not worry about it, we won't stop you. Please, enjoy the game the way you want. The only thing we're asking for is the exact same thing, the ability to play our way and figure out solutions to our own problems, that's it.

[Ella`Ella]

The bottom line here is the tier 2 guilds really aren't willing to negotiate with tier 1 guilds. Tier 2 have only offered the divinity plan and have insisted the tier 1 guilds adhere to it absolutely with no modification whereas the numerous proposals by the tier 1 guilds continue to be chastised regardless of how many modifications and concessions have been made in favor of the tier 2's. This isn't a negotiation, it's holding the tier 1's hostage for a pound of flesh for past transgressions.

[Tanthallas]

Originally Posted by Kope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let Tier 2 worry about Tier 2, Tier 1 worry about Tier 1.

You guys can play however you want and we will not worry about it, we won't stop you. Please, enjoy the game the way you want. The only thing we're asking for is the exact same thing, the ability to play our way and figure out solutions to our own problems, that's it.

I mean...that is exactly what I proposed here. It is THE SAME as the staff proposal with the details filled in about how the tiered system would progress, however mixed with the Divinity proposal in regards to quasi rotations.

Let the people who are actually trying to build something here build something, and the people who are not not.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Exmo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nope. Owners of the server are telling everyone TMO/FE are playing it wrong. We're just trying to figure out how to go forward.

This isn't the way.

I keep seeing insinuations that these talks are forced because of how the hardcores are "wrong." Misinformation does the conversation no services.

These talks are not a result of philosophical differences between the staff and the hardcores. They are a result of situation that led to too much work on the part of the staff. That they want the hardcore to accommodate the casual is a secondary consideration.

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think its cute that so many people think this change is happening because GuildA or GuildB gets too many kills.

This is only happening because every single raid for the last month or two has ended with PetitionQuest, and the CSR team has actual players that need actual help to deal with.

if it wasn't for the petition quest, and if these folks would have been able not train and/or to respect other people's FTE, we wouldnt even be having these discussions.

It is certainly true that it is fair for the hardcores to compete while allowing meaningful participation from the casual, but this concept is not the origin of these talks. Do not claim moral authority for your stance because you inappropriately think that's where the staff philosophically sits.

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raid Scene
It continues to be an aggravating realization among CSR staff that 10% of the server population causes 90% of the problems. We are all for competition, but it needs to be fair competition. We are also all here for the same thing, to experience classic Everquest. The same guild monopolizing raid content for 2 years that they might not even need anymore is ridiculous, just to block other guilds from the chance of gearing up to take on the same end game content.

I was thinking to myself the other day and I came to ask myself.. Are we providing this server to give people the arena to compete to such bitter extremes that it has resorted to taking every absolute measure to be victorious, or are we here to provide a classic Everquest experience for everyone to enjoy?

A lot of you make fun of it in your own terms, but it really does come down to fighting over very old content.

Either way, we're tired of the constant bickering, the training, the ninja looting, and all the other bullshit that's going on. So here's what we're going to do.

Starting today and then evaluated when Velious is released the CSR staff will be keeping track of how the raid guilds are treating eachother. If we do not see a significant improvement in the behavior of the raiding guilds and how they treat eachother, Velious will be released without raid content. To be clear, we want an enjoyable raid scene for everyone, not just one or two guilds. This means working together to figure out a compromise when racing for mobs, and working with smaller guilds to let them have a chance at mobs you don't absolutely need for gearing main characters.

Don't think that this means you can continue shitting on each other and just not petition, the staff will still be watching.