Tumpy Tonic

[jawtoe]

I appreciate the attemt to make this all EQ classic style, and have everything be exactly the same. But guess what, it can't be. It isn't 1999, and many of the things in this game can't be reverted back to the original state. That being the case, I can still understand and appreciate the desire to make it like EQ classic as much as possible. My feelings on the game are that it was an entirely different game when it was first released than it was once Luclin came out. EQ was still EQ all the way through Velious.

The point I'm getting at is that, if the game can't be everything we remember it being, why do this tattered version of it? There are things about Classic that were improved upon, and didn't change the game into the disgusting thing that it became after Luclin. Why not make this game true to classic content, but with upgrades? Some patches didn't make characters stronger, but just took out some of the monotony. Not everything about Classic was good, even though it is a good game. Why bring back the problems? Why not do it better than the original?

I know I've just opened the door to a bunch of pea-brains to yell at me and totally miss my point. Bring it on, it's entertaining. Just try to make some good points in the process, or you're just farting out your mouth... or I guess out of your fingers in this case.

[Dartagnan]

I think the issue is the time involved rather than the quest itself. It's 20 times faster. Just as an example of what was said, if it took 2 days (48 hours), then it would only take 2.4 hours here. That's just an example, but I think the point is established. It's just way too fast.

As to the item issue, it is complicated in my opinion. I don't think the classic everquest experience can be fully implemented due to the fact that people know what they are doing. You just cannot mimic ignorance like many of us faced when we first logged into EQ.

Lots of people have manastones and guises. It has become a standard for anyone who is level 50 to have these items. Yes, certain items such as the cryosilk robe will not drop anymore since it dropped once. How else is the dev team suppose to mimic this?

I think we need to come to the fact that while this server exhibits aspects of classic EverQuest, it is not going to be perfectly aligned with every aspect that happened.

I think we need to understand that this server is still tweaking many things. We need to except this or wait until the devs are finished making it as perfect as possible. I don't know about you, but I would rather play now and accept the fact that there are going to be some deviations from the classic experience as a result.

I started Dartagnan I believe 5 days after the server opened. I was able to level him strictly from 1-50 grouping with people. It was possible for anyone to do so (especially for those classes that could lvl a lot faster than a cleric could). I have been able to take part in a lot of the first server kills and have witnessed some of the bugs that could happen, such as the Mayong Mistmoore script problem.

To my knowledge, only the cryosilk robe will not drop anymore and am not aware of other items not dropping anymore as of this time, but I could be wrong. I don't know, but it is a hard decision to make as to how you make this timeline go. I think the devs are doing the best job they can. To me, it has always been about the experience rather than what I could obtain first.

It is possible to have the classic everquest experience right now and I hope people look to that as their main means of satisfaction.

[jawtoe]

Here's an example of something that could be improved and be made to reflect Classic:
Keep pets through zone lines, but consume the regeants used to summon the pet each time one zones.
There's absolutely nothing fun about trying to summon a strong pet and then getting trained and having to summon it again. I've spent literally 20 tries getting my strongest pet summoned some times. It's things like this that I don't care for, even on a classic server.

[Dartagnan]

I think you're missing the point about the reason why EQ had pets of various levels. To be able to summon a strong pet and keep it as you move across the zone would negate the fact that a pet caster would need to spend the time to get their best pet possible.

I can understand that some things should just be fixed because they were headaches, but I believe the pet issue was an integral part of how they visioned pet classes would function.

Otherwise there would be no need for fluctuation in pet levels.

[jawtoe]

Originally Posted by Dartagnan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you're missing the point about the reason why EQ had pets of various levels. To be able to summon a strong pet and keep it as you move across the zone would negate the fact that a pet caster would need to spend the time to get their best pet possible.

I can understand that some things should just be fixed because they were headaches, but I believe the pet issue was an integral part of how they visioned pet classes would function.

Otherwise there would be no need for fluctuation in pet levels.

Sure there would be. You'd still have to get that first good pet. And it would die when you died. It would die like any other temporary item after you camp for more than 20 minutes or whatever it is.
To keep the pets through zones would just save time in some cases.
I'd even be willing to have pets consume regeants over time, like 1 malachite for a mage pet for every couple hours or something.

It's just the summoning, reclaiming, summoning, reclaiming, medding, repeat indefinately depending on how the server throws luck at you that day, is kinda lame. It's one of those things that doesn't contribute to EQ Classic's greatness. IMO. You can disagree with me of course, and it doesn't offend me.

Here's an example of why this pet system sucks:
I got a good pet, luckily, on like my 2nd try. While waiting for my friend to join me I decided to kill a few things. Something ran and I got a couple adds - had to zone. I made it just fine, and then my friend showed up and we grouped. Now I went to go and summon another pet. I tried 17 times (not exaggerating) and jokingly said: watch someone train vox to the zone and kill us both right after i finally get a good fricken pet. On the 18th pet, more than 20 minutes later, I got a good pet. I was happy, for a moment. Next thing I know, someone (not naming names) pulled ice giants passed me and my friend (we were in the first big clearing in permafrost, where you can either go to the alchemist area or to the preacher). My friend was standing up before they passed, lying down after they had passed. They didn't even seem to stop to attack. Anyway, a few moments later (I stuck around because I had just gotten a good pet and didn't want to go through all the summoning again) the giants returned (I guess whoever pulled them to the zone zoned) and finished me off before I could even react and beging casting gate. I couldn't believe that something so close to what I had jokingly predicted actually happened, and it sucked.

Anyway, that whole long story just to give you an example of why this pet system is BS. You shouldn't have to do all that summoning more than once if you don't die in between.

Games are all about balance, and there are many factors to balance if you want to make a good game. EQ is good even with this shitty aspects, but it could be better. That's all I'm saying I guess. If you want to encourage people to live unhealthly, antisocial, heart-attack prone lifestyles, then continue to reward the players that spend countless hours logged in at a time. If you want to make EQ a potentially healthy piece of a balanced human being's life, then make it possible for them to play the game effectively without investing entire days to it. Leveling with this tonic quest (which I hadn't even heard about before coming upon this thread) might not be so bad if you consider this balance of real life and the game in each person's life.

[Bannedfornoreason]

Allright now that most of the flame throwing is actually done and there seems to be some logical discussion i'm going to really settle things here...

So after all this bitching we have finally agreed that the only thing wrong about this quest was that Kiola nuts were stacking? What if you started around SOL era and had absolutely no clue that it was not supposed to be stackable? Well then, I guess you're screwed! har har har [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's the real conversation stopper though... Just be prepared to read

Whats to stop 10 people (or more) from helping out 1 single dude get level 50 extremely fast? IIRC hand made backpack is a 10 slot. 10x8=80... that means each person could make about 80 tonics. Do you know how long it takes to make 80 tonics? If you did the quest you'd know that it would take a long time to make 80 tonics. Here's what I would do if nuts were NOT stackable and the guild was trying to level someone fast.

*Note* this would easier and faster exp because the guy who is getting leveled wouldn't have to make any tonics and instead would just be given them

Step 1 - 10 people go get 76 nuts + 4 stacks of water flask (80 slots filled).

Step 2 - They make Tumpy Tonics 10x faster than 1 person could

Step 3 - They give all of their tonics to the guy who they are trying to level up. (who stands in the bar waiting for the dwarf)

Step 4 - repeat as many times as you want


At a trivial combine rate, I heard it took about an hour to make 8 backpacks full of tumpy tonics (normal 8 slot backpacks that is). I dont know if this is accurate but it certainly takes a long time to make them. You can only hit combine so fast. It actually doesn't let you hit combine again after a certain time has elapsed.

This would mean that if 10 people each made 76 tonics and tonics that were stackable. then that would mean that you could make 76 tonics in about 3 minutes give or take. This means that you could be making approximately 760 tonics in 3 minutes and have them all in the guys hands in under 5 minutes. Turning them in 4 at a time unstacked takes time too... meanwhile people can be making you more tonics and just feeding them into your inventory...this is a total no brainer...

If a guild decided that 10 people would be making tumpy tonics they WOULD be able to make tonics just as fast if not MUCH faster than 1 guy doing it the way people did on this server. And lets say that 10 wasn't enough to equalize 1 person doing it. Well then, make 20 people take 30 minutes out of their day and in a few days you have any class to level 50 for the guild effortlessly...

Was exp incorrect? That's not even a debatable topic because you can't blame someone for getting the incorrect amount of exp. It certainly was not mind blowing good. Not like you are getting a blue per hand in...

So knowing what I know now about nuts NOT being stackable in classic I can say that the quest was overpowered if you are one person trying to just level up fast using this quest. I didn't know nuts were not stackable. I didn't start till around SoL...Jify handed in Greater lightstones and went from like level 12-20 unknowingly leveling up very fast and what did they do to him? They took away some of his exp. Fair enough. No need to perma ban him from all things EQ or even yell at him on the forum. He didn't know better so the problem was solved the right way.

So after reading what I just typed up, please remind me, why exactly are they banning selective people over this quest? Because people didn't know that kiola nuts were not stackable? That's insane... and I just explained how you could still easily get 1-50 in a day with assistance. If you still don't think people could get 1-50 very quickly with guild assistance you are just wrong

If people say that it was too OP in classic to come onto this server then ok... thats an argument that I have been making for a long time but the Dev staff absolutely insisted that things that were in the game stay in the game...
So meanwhile, enchanters are charming FGs and planar mobs for minutes at a time. Enchanters were whirling 12 seconds all the time every time that it landed, mages were soloing content that full groups of melee couldnt dream of touching, and melee were absolutely wothless... unable to take damage, deal damage, get aggro, or hold aggro... but that's how they wanted it to be, so thats how it is. So personally, if you are going to have classic charm in the game, then you should have classic Tumpy Tonic int he game - its only fair.

[Dartagnan]

I think the point is that in a position of trust and power, why didn't you at least look into this. Getting xp this fast should have raised a flag regardless of what era you came into EQ and should have been looked into.

[Zarniwooop]

They posted and said, you have until friday to come forward.

Did you come forward before then?

[Bannedfornoreason]

It seemed legit, everyone told me it was legit. Nobody suggested otherwise...That's why I didn't think anything of it. Shouldn't enchanters have asked if Whirl was legit (It wasnt) why aren't enchanters punished for that?

Punishments on this server are always hand picked...some banned for doing a quest, others allowed to MQ... its like...I don't like this guy! BURN! I don't think that's how issues should be resolved at all

[Dartagnan]

When you say "everyone" does that include the other GMs? I'm sorry but if I was in your position and I saw how fast people were leveling...that would make me want to at least discuss it with my team.

Your argument is flawed concerning enchanters whirl til you hurl because it was a known issue. Nobody apparantely even reported about this quest this at all. Again, I don't care how long one has played EQ for. Being able to lvl that fast due to a quest should have gotten people thinking and posting a possible bug.

Anyone who did this quest on live and knew about it would absolutely KNOW that it was being done faster on this server. They should have reported it and in my opinion exploited it.