Multi questing still going strong... so says the economy?

[oldhead]

Originally Posted by Nordenwatch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I personally think quest items are different, for monk pipes i've never rolled on a pipe a monk in the group has actually needed.

even in non-NBG groups i'd still give quest items to the person who needed it.

Pretty much always been my view on things.

Always hated NBG in Pugs. Greed is the way to go.

For quest no drop items tho it should default to people who need. if nobody needs then greed.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Kratzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wouldn't expect to get an FBSS, because if the tank in my group or the monk in my group can hit harder and faster, then we can kill more, more easily. If you can kill more easily, you can get loot more easily. If you help the tank, maybe next time that tank will let you know if theres room in a group that can use my skills. I don't need to take loot to make money in this game. I will take the loot no one wants and quest the rest of the items and sell those things in the game. I've made Lambent and Crafted pieces, that i cannot use, simply to sell them as profit since it was a no drop item and no one wanted it. I do not need the item others can use immediately to proceed in the game.

If I "HAVE" to join a guild to get NBG groups then this server is a sad sad place. Sad that 6 people can't get together and have a positive experience. I have been given loot in groups that didn't have to pre-announce NBG because I could use it. I have also passed along what I was wearing in that slot to anyone in the group who could use it as an upgrade, so two people can get upgraded at the same.

Again, so sad so many don't understand the social aspect of community gaming.

I agree with this 100% We all want higher population on the server because overall it makes it a better place. When a game is this old the people that are left playing it continue to play it because they enjoy it. The newness wears off a game and many people bolt. Most every group I have been in has been NBG. I imagine when I am in 50+ groups and higher end items are dropping things will change unfortunately.

The ironic part is if everyone was NBG the chances of someone already having the loot increase dramatically. Therefor making more greed rolls. I realize that you can take an item and sell it for something you need. But when you random on 25 RMB's to make up for the price of an FBSS where does one draw the line?

As for looting quest items that are MQ'able for a guildmate, that is wrong on so many levels. Unless it's a greed roll any quest items should go to any members of the group first

[Lagaidh]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To me NBG is just this entitled attitude that everyone else exists for my benefit

I agree that the OP is being oversensitive about NBG, and that folks need to set the ground rules with PUG before beginning, but...

I've personally always seen NBG as being more about not being a dick than thinking strangers exist for the benefit of the needy. I've been on both ends of the NBG set up, just as I've been on both ends of /random. I think it comes down to each item and the group that sees it drop.

[Messianic]

Parse the words behind NBG - Need? Who needs a damn thing in this game? The mentality behind people who are hypersensitive about NBG is ridiculous.

Why is some monk in a KC group (who's probably already heavily twinked, statistically speaking) entitled to the Tstaff drop? Why is his use of it more useful than someone else's use of the 25k it would easily yield?

Because so much of the gear drops in this game are tradeable, the value of the item isn't solely based on its actual use by someone in the group; and in reality, MQ's do change things. I personally would never take a no-drop item so I can sell the MQ if someone in the group could use it and find that kind of silly. But if the MQ is really that valuable and the group agrees to it...there's nothing wrong with it.

Who gets more utility - a monk who upgrades from a peacebringer to a tstaff, or a shaman who buys an iksar regen BP and a host of hp/wis gear using the proceeds from selling the staff? Who was really "needy" (in a loose sense) in that situation? If the goal is to help the "needy", why not do gearscores on every person in the friggin group?

Obviously, that's a waste of time. But just assuming NBG helps the less geared is really stupid.


tl;dr - learn/set the loot rules as soon as you join a pug, and you need to seriously re-think NBG if you think it's actually the best system for helping the "needy" (again, using the word loosely).

[Houdiny]

I think there is merit on both sides of this argument. I prefer NBG, but I can see things working the other way as well.

My main question is since this appears to be a greed oriented server as far as rolling on items, do you just let people win whatever they can? Say someone in the group wins this tstaff and a fungi tunic also drops. Do they get to roll on the fungi as well? Keeping all the high end items for themselves? Or does it at least get distributed a little bit?

The main problem I have is on live hacking randoms was the one of the first big things that was hacked. If a guy has that advantage it isn't really fair to the group. Not saying this has happened but it at least deserves some conversation.

Another thing that I might add is NBG helps the current group but also future groups. I have certain people that I have leveled with basically since lvl 20. We have all went by the NBG method. And it has worked well. People get more gear in this group and further helps the future groups with these same people. Also helps getting an invite back into said group if you aren't greedy. So there is also some benefits to not being selfish and greedy. Of course at the higher end game in old seb and KC and such this begins to dwindle as most of the groups become out of necessity and not preference.

[Itap]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is some monk in a KC group (who's probably already heavily twinked, statistically speaking) entitled to the Tstaff drop? Why is his use of it more useful than someone else's use of the 25k it would easily yield?

There is fallacy in your argument. You assume that all monks are heavily twinked. What if the monk is upgrading from a Wu's quivering or a set of trance sticks? Is he not entitled to a monk only weapon that he will use as soon as it is looted?

Either way, i believe the OP was referring to No Drop items, such as the KC pipe. A group rolling on a no drop item that a group member could use to complete his/her epic ,or whatever the case may be, is not right.

Peoples greed for plat overcomes the sense of community and helping each other. In the end, its just a game, fuck it

[Acillatem]

I prefer Hand-me-down round robin in PUGs.

If I'm in a crypt group and I win a Breath of Harmony, and then Heiro Cloak drops and I win that also - I "hand down" the Breath of Harmony to whomever had the 2nd highest roll. If the person who had the 2nd highest roll previously won a lvl 60 spell, they would hand down to #3 etc.

So it spreads the loot around. And IMO, NBG should be reserved for Guild only becuz I will see the long-term benefits of said item drop.

[falkun]

"Need" is such a grey area that most people on the server just greed roll everything and let the market sort out individual's needs. If I want a specific piece of loot and don't want to pay for it, I'll get guildies and/or friends to help me camp the item. They won't roll against me because they know I'm at that camp for that item(s).

Also, the other 5 people in the group have put in just as much effort as you have at that camp. Why should they be any less rewarded (besides getting the RNG shaft)?

I do tend to prefer greed groups with either ML or hand-me-down, as Aci mentions above. That way more people walk away with something rather than one person being an RNG god and getting everything.

The biggest point, however, is communication. Know the loot philosophy going into the group, so you are not surprised when something does drop. If you don't like the rules from the get-go, then just leave the group.

[Sebekkha]

Lost two rolls in KC for the pipe when I was in need of it for my epic progression. I swiftly disbanded due to the disgust at how greedy people can be !

[sedrie.bellamie]

obv OP is talking about pipes for monk quests. Sorry other players want to make plat from camping certain mobs. This monk whining for a pipe is the same as any cleric/mage that gets a mark of karn/call of the hero random on and they loose.

Sometimes you win /random sometimes you loose at /random.

Just play more.