Best solo melee class?

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by sammoHung [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a question: if rangers do much better than monks why aren't there more rangers? Is feign death just that fun to use? (i mean it is, but)

I always thought relying on weapon procs was not a reliable metric for determining viability though. It's not like rangers get a spell slow, like a shaman for instance.

Best exp zones are often indoors and monks can split indoors allowing a lot more solo options. It also shines in smaller groups but loses value when splitting is not required. Their gameplay is also a lot more straightforward.

Rangers have a bigger kit but it is more fiddly and situational so very hit or miss. Sow, harmony, snare, track and the likes can be clutch or totally useless if you're doing a single undead camp indoors. Less good exp/money camps outdoors too.

In the end it kind of depends on which perks you want.

And yeah, earthcaller is nice but that epic has a big bottleneck, not sure how much you can consider it as part of the ranger toolkit. You can swarmcaller but it isn't a great weap so if it doesn't early proc you just gimped yourself. You can fix that with DEX but if you want ~180str and decent AC/hp it is hard to get high dex too if you're not BIS.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Best exp zones are often indoors and monks can split indoors allowing a lot more solo options. It also shines in smaller groups but loses value when splitting is not required. Their gameplay is also a lot more straightforward.

Rangers have a bigger kit but it is more fiddly and situational so very hit or miss. Sow, harmony, snare, track and the likes can be clutch or totally useless if you're doing a single undead camp indoors. Less good exp/money camps outdoors too.

In the end it kind of depends on which perks you want.

And yeah, earthcaller is nice but that epic has a big bottleneck, not sure how much you can consider it as part of the ranger toolkit. You can swarmcaller but it isn't a great weap so if it doesn't early proc you just gimped yourself. You can fix that with DEX but if you want ~180str and decent AC/hp it is hard to get high dex too if you're not BIS.

you gimped yourself by using 1h anyways, the best option is get 46 and get a cek sword and pretend 1h doesnt exist.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You will go oom extremely fast using dooming/invoke unless you have some potg/c2 bot keeping you going.

It's really a balancing act between mana/hp if you want to go for a couple hours without taking breaks. I would usually lead w/ dooming but then use spook the dead or blood ember boots if no undead mobs around. By the time dooming wore off I had done enough damage to resnare w/ BE gaunts & then finish off w/ spook/boots as needed. Once the mob is around 50ish% engulfing is the way to go for mana saving(and also for splitting). I would also tank as much as possible to lighten the mana load, and once the mob is like 30% you can just keep it perma feared in place & ideally if you have epic you can swap that in to get procs to regen as much hp as possible.

If you had access to soul defiler, then that would drastically change things as most of your mana problems should go away in which case i would probably throw in some more invoke.

Yea I had a Soul Defiler and epic 57+. Before that, I just juggled two spawns to 60 fairly relaxed.

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you gimped yourself by using 1h anyways, the best option is get 46 and get a cek sword and pretend 1h doesnt exist.

Really, this is the most efficient path. Less DKP and typically higher numbers, easier jolting, less enrage deaths.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you gimped yourself by using 1h anyways, the best option is get 46 and get a cek sword and pretend 1h doesnt exist.

If you have access to cek sword then imo just get an earthcaller and whatever the bis secondary is to use while you’re trying to slow. Vyemm whip procs prob makes the most sense from a solo perspective but another high stat wep would be good too. Swarmcaller is pretty bad dps

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you have access to cek sword then imo just get an earthcaller and whatever the bis secondary is to use while you’re trying to slow. Vyemm whip procs prob makes the most sense from a solo perspective but another high stat wep would be good too. Swarmcaller is pretty bad dps

you just dont bother slowing while grinding, relying on procs is dumb for just plain exp. save that for like low man trio groups.

edit: you will have long killed something by time slow procs with a cek sword and way faster than you will have with 1h.

[Snaggles]

I bought a Swarmcaller again after getting a Meljeldin and 2h primal. I’m not convinced it’s much of a dps loss over the EC (with the last 2h damage table change) but haven’t bothered doing any extensive testing. One of these days I will.

The Meljeldin is a 43% better ratio than the Swarmcaller. That makes gamble procs less appealing if your melee is the only way the mob dies. I am curious if the offhand rune makes up for the extra big 2h ripostes etc.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I bought a Swarmcaller again after getting a Meljeldin and 2h primal. I’m not convinced it’s much of a dps loss over the EC (with the last 2h damage table change) but haven’t bothered doing any extensive testing. One of these days I will.

The Meljeldin is a 43% better ratio than the Swarmcaller. That makes gamble procs less appealing if your melee is the only way the mob dies. I am curious if the offhand rune makes up for the extra big 2h ripostes etc.

I would hope double epics can out dps swarmcaller. Not to mention way better stats. But would be nice to pair EC with a tuna whip (nice dps proc) or vyemm whip.

[TytosOfEight]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you just dont bother slowing while grinding, relying on procs is dumb for just plain exp. save that for like low man trio groups.

edit: you will have long killed something by time slow procs with a cek sword and way faster than you will have with 1h.

We’re gonna have to agree to disagree on this point. To give you an example, I’m currently farming a guardian robe. I kill 21 named guardians per cycle: most are easy but some are blue or dark green, and many are undercons. An unlucky pull can occasionally include a roaming guard, and some of these are very tough. I’ve tried these cycles without Earthcaller. I’ve tried with Batton/Claw and Cek, and then my typical setup, EC/Silver Whip. I have never not completed a full cycle with EC/Silver Whip, whereas a bad fight has set me back when using Baton/Claw and Cek, and I’ve had miss a few mobs. I can certainly face tank a blue mob, but I’m then out of or low on mana and also down on HP. EC provides a ton of efficiency.

My typical setup is Aary Shield/EC to begin with. I swap out the shield after losing 100hp for whip. After EC proc, I put whip in mainhand and put claw in offhand. After losing more hp, I swap my first golden loop for a Dragon Blood Earring, then I swap the second for the Thuderforged Earring, so I get more dex. Then after more hp loss, I swap my 20 dex bp for my fungi. I feel like you have to min/max like crazy to fully optimise playing a ranger, but it’s fun as hell.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by TytosOfEight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We’re gonna have to agree to disagree on this point. To give you an example, I’m currently farming a guardian robe. I kill 21 named guardians per cycle: most are easy but some are blue or dark green, and many are undercons. An unlucky pull can occasionally include a roaming guard, and some of these are very tough. I’ve tried these cycles without Earthcaller. I’ve tried with Batton/Claw and Cek, and then my typical setup, EC/Silver Whip. I have never not completed a full cycle with EC/Silver Whip, whereas a bad fight has set me back when using Baton/Claw and Cek, and I’ve had miss a few mobs. I can certainly face tank a blue mob, but I’m then out of or low on mana and also down on HP. EC provides a ton of efficiency.

My typical setup is Aary Shield/EC to begin with. I swap out the shield after losing 100hp for whip. After EC proc, I put whip in mainhand and put claw in offhand. After losing more hp, I swap my first golden loop for a Dragon Blood Earring, then I swap the second for the Thuderforged Earring, so I get more dex. Then after more hp loss, I swap my 20 dex bp for my fungi. I feel like you have to min/max like crazy to fully optimise playing a ranger, but it’s fun as hell.

In your specific example this makes sense.

Using my DPS calculator, a level 60 Ranger with 255 STR, 140 ATK, and 91% haste fighting A Gargoyle Guardian (level 37 mob) for Guardian Robe does the following DPS:

1. Earthcaller + Silver Whip of Rage - 84 DPS
2. Meljeldin, Bane of Giants - 100 DPS

Assuming the wiki is correct, the gargoyle has around 2k HP. This means:

1. Earthcaller + Silver Whip of Rage - 24 second kill
2. Meljeldin, Bane of Giants - 20 second kill

Let's assume the mob does 40 DPS unslowed. That would mean the Ranger using Earthcaller + Silver Whip of Rage is taking 160 more damage per kill due to lower DPS. However, one proc of Silver Whip of Rage is a 150 point Rune. This means the whip by itself will negate the extra damage taken due to lower DPS. When you throw in slow procs, you should take less damage overall than the Meljeldin user. This is assuming you have high DEX of course.

The 4 seconds of extra kill time isn't really going to mess up spawn timers, and less damage taken means less downtime to recover HP. At 255 DEX you should be getting 2 procs per minute on your main hand and at least one proc per minute on your offhand. You are probably killing two mobs per minute using the numbers above, so you should be getting either a slow proc or a rune proc per kill on average.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by TytosOfEight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We’re gonna have to agree to disagree on this point. To give you an example, I’m currently farming a guardian robe. I kill 21 named guardians per cycle: most are easy but some are blue or dark green, and many are undercons. An unlucky pull can occasionally include a roaming guard, and some of these are very tough. I’ve tried these cycles without Earthcaller. I’ve tried with Batton/Claw and Cek, and then my typical setup, EC/Silver Whip. I have never not completed a full cycle with EC/Silver Whip, whereas a bad fight has set me back when using Baton/Claw and Cek, and I’ve had miss a few mobs. I can certainly face tank a blue mob, but I’m then out of or low on mana and also down on HP. EC provides a ton of efficiency.

My typical setup is Aary Shield/EC to begin with. I swap out the shield after losing 100hp for whip. After EC proc, I put whip in mainhand and put claw in offhand. After losing more hp, I swap my first golden loop for a Dragon Blood Earring, then I swap the second for the Thuderforged Earring, so I get more dex. Then after more hp loss, I swap my 20 dex bp for my fungi. I feel like you have to min/max like crazy to fully optimise playing a ranger, but it’s fun as hell.

Yea you doing all that swapping and i just walk in and hit with cek sword and kill it and faster. if i have a med a sec more cool. hard pass on whatever all this is.