Questions on backstab

[Snaggles]

I don’t remember much from 20 years ago but when I mainhanded my epic, I frequently did 500’ish backstabs off disc and remember doing about 2k for a max double on-Duelist. Cecily’s specific numbers should be accurate.

Finding this top figure should be fairly easy in Gameparse if around other rogues. Max damage per hit is a column and you can sort by class.

[Goregasmic]

If you start a rogue twink I suppose you get the best ratio mainhand since it would have a bigger impact than backstab damage with a high damage weapon early on?

At what point would you start considering switching from a croaking dirk to something with higher backstab damage even if it has a worse ratio? When you get double backstab? Do you ever before epic?

[Infectious]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I found the issue. The EQEMU code gives +3 Weapon damage, but it looks like the intent was for mobs only.

The formula is now:



15 * ((225 * 0.02) + 2) = 97 rounded down. 97 weapon damage * 2 * 2.85 percentage multiplier cap = 552.9 damage at best. That is 553 rounded up.

It was simply an interesting coincidence that the 696 backstab I happened to look at lines up with the +3 damage perfectly when including damage bonus, and that 696 backstab happened to miss the emote message.

Thanks for the expert help! Now I know how backstab works, and this is another data point showing the EQEMU matches the P99 code.

I'll add it to my DPS calculator, so backstabs can be calculated. Now it will be easy for Rogues to compare weapons.

Having conversations about game mechanics is not trolling. Experts on these forums have been wrong before. I am not saying you are wrong here, but it's good to make sure the information is correct.

Cecily forget his estrogen shot today. The T got him in aggressive mode

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you start a rogue twink I suppose you get the best ratio mainhand since it would have a bigger impact than backstab damage with a high damage weapon early on?

At what point would you start considering switching from a croaking dirk to something with higher backstab damage even if it has a worse ratio? When you get double backstab? Do you ever before epic?

It depends on your level of twink. Let's assume in this example you don't have access to twinking your Rogue with no drop raid weapons.

Before you meet the level requirement to use Ragebringer, something like Rabid Chokidai Fang would be an easy weapon to get, and it has 14 weapon damage. It is a 14/29 weapon, so the ratio is worse.

According to my DPS calculator, Rabid Chokidai Fang is slightly better than Croaking Dirk from levels 10+ when you include backstab DPS. This assumes you are always backstabbing immediately on cooldown.

Practically speaking I would probably still use Croaking Dirk over Fang before I could use Ragebringer, as the DPS between the two weapons is quite close. My point is to show that a higher damage weapon with a worse ratio and worse delay can still do quite well due to the increased backstab damage.

[Snaggles]

Rogue weapons (generally) favor melee dps or backstab dps. The latter being most important in groups unless you can find stuff to solo that casts. If you have HoH or raid weapons, disregard the rest of this [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

Given the cost of a rogue epic and ability to get it at level 46, I would spend more time rushing to 46 with a seb dirk and less time optimizing your MH/OH setup pre-epic. For the price, the seb isn’t a bad offhand either. For that early level range, a fungi tunic is doing most of the heavy lifting if you are picking smart solo spots (and it isn’t even needed if grouping).

You can spend the next 14 levels pondering what to MH and OH.

[Jimjam]

Specifically regarding backstab: How does DMG get capped by level (if at all)? Do we know how it worked in classic?

[Goregasmic]

Alright thanks!

Yeah I got a rabid chokidai fang from deathfang and I just tossed it in bank. I was wondering if croaking dirk would be better due to better ratio and damage bonus but if the fang wins due to BS damage then I'll go with that. But yeah, for soloing or OH croaking dirk would obviously win. How long can you solo with a fungi until it becomes a chore?

For the rest of the gear people go full str glass cannon with hp/ac wherever sensible I guess since you assume a pure dps role as a rogue?

[Snaggles]

If you have the Chokidai fang I’d keep it on the rogue. Good to have multiple options. I’d likely use it in a group even if to see those big numbers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Replace with the epic and keep going.

[Cecily]

Dirk is my favorite leveling weapon. I think anything slower than 25 delay is real unfun to use mainhand. Fang does have stupid high backstab damage. Just remember backstab isn't the whole picture. And, yes, Fang will be pure aids for soloing. Curious how the two differ in agro management at lower levels.

Rogues can solo to 50 - 52ish with a fungi pretty easily. 60 is doable though. I stack AC and STR with AC+HP pieces leveling. Crystal Chitin gloves, boots, and SCWBs with 6 65 rings will carry a lot of weight for your time soloing a rogue/ranger. Lodi shield is ridiculously good for leveling / raiding, too.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Specifically regarding backstab: How does DMG get capped by level (if at all)? Do we know how it worked in classic?

How I look at it is if STR capped, then backstab damage is capped at max skill for level.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How I look at it is if STR capped, then backstab damage is capped at max skill for level.

What I'm trying to ask is whether at lower levels the dmg statistic on a piercing weapon subject to a cap for backstab hits, like how there are by level caps for weapon damage on normal swings (at lvl 10, 20, 30, whatever)?