Questions on backstab

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Hello Rogues!

I have a few questions on backstab.

1. Unhasted backstab cooldown is 10 seconds, correct?
2. How does the backstab cooldown reduction work with regards to haste?
3. Can you double attack with backstab?
4. Have you ever seen a backstab above 696 damage?

[Cecily]

10 second base. It's either about 5 or 6 second with haste. 5ish would make sense with 98/99 haste. Skill timers and haste were fucky for a long time a long time ago. Yes. 55+ unlocks double backstab. Max backstab damage on this server is 553 with a 15 damage weapon. Duelist doubles damage so a duelist backstab caps at 1106. Please do not answer rogue questions.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

10 second base. ~6 second hasted. Yes. 55+ unlocks double backstab. Max backstab damage on this server is 553 with a 15 damage weapon. Duelist doubles damage so a duelist backstab caps at 1106. Please do not answer rogue questions.

Thanks for that!

Max backstab is 696 from my raid logs so far:

[Fri Mar 29 22:26:07 2019] Jumbasa backstabs Dagarn the Destroyer for 696 points of damage.

This lines up with the EQEMU code as well.

My logs show 5 or 6 seconds per backstab as the fastest refresh as well.

[Cecily]

Your max is determined by your level (backstab skill cap), your strength, and your weapon damage. You hit max more often with more ATK, so AoB gear is important, and VoG / CoTP / SoN / Focus (STR cap) are key raiding buffs.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your max is determined by your level (backstab skill cap), your strength, and your weapon damage. You hit max more often with more ATK, so AoB gear is important, and VoG / CoTP / SoN / Focus (STR cap) are key raiding buffs.

Correct. Backstab works like a normal attack, with five differences:

1. You have to manually press backstab.
2. Backstab adjusts your weapon damage before it does the damage calculation. A 15 damage weapon basically becomes a 120 damage weapon at 235 backstab skill. The formula for this is (Weapon Damage + 3) * ((Backstab Skill * 0.02) + 2). (15 + 3) * ((235 * 0.02) + 2) = 120. (120 weapon damage * 2) * 2.85 percentage multiplier cap + 11 damage bonus = 695 damage at best. The 696 we saw above is probably due to rounding.
3. A minimum damage is applied at 51+. For 51-59 it is (Level * 3 / 2). At level 60 it is Level * 2 = 120, which is the minimum damage we see on backstabs for level 60s.
4. The cooldown is not tied to weapon delay.
5. Double attack isn't unlocked until 55+.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Correct. Backstab works like a normal attack, with five differences:

1. You have to manually press backstab.
2. Backstab adjusts your weapon damage before it does the damage calculation. A 15 damage weapon basically becomes a 120 damage weapon at 235 backstab skill. The formula for this is (Weapon Damage + 3) * ((Backstab Skill * 0.02) + 2). (15 + 3) * ((235 * 0.02) + 2) = 120. (120 weapon damage * 2) * 2.85 percentage multiplier cap + 11 damage bonus = 695 damage at best. The 696 we saw above is probably due to rounding.
3. A minimum damage is applied at 51+. For 51-59 it is (Level * 3 / 2). At level 60 it is Level * 2 = 120, which is the minimum damage we see on backstabs for level 60s.
4. The cooldown is not tied to weapon delay.
5. Double attack isn't unlocked until 55+.

553 / 1106 (duelist) is max backstab damage on p99.

While you're waiting to see an 1106 for yourself you can easily check 553's in your logs and confirm only higher backstabs were preceded by a duelist. The duelist message is "Soandso's eyes gleam with energy."

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

553 / 1106 (duelist) is max backstab damage on p99.

While you're waiting to see an 1106 for yourself you can easily check 553's in your logs and confirm only higher backstabs were preceded by a duelist. The duelist message is "Soandso's eyes gleam with energy."

I do not believe this is correct. Looking back at this log:

[Fri Mar 29 22:26:07 2019] Jumbasa backstabs Dagarn the Destroyer for 696 points of damage.

I do not see the "eyes gleam with energy." message for Jumbasa. I do see the message for other Rogues, so I know the message can be seen by myself.

These are all the "eyes gleam with energy" messages for that day:

[Fri Mar 29 22:26:42 2019] Stabithaa's eyes gleam with energy.
[Fri Mar 29 22:33:03 2019] Dravingar's eyes gleam with energy.
[Fri Mar 29 23:17:04 2019] Knapsack's eyes gleam with energy.
[Fri Mar 29 23:17:19 2019] Katierakel's eyes gleam with energy.
[Fri Mar 29 23:22:35 2019] Narienna's eyes gleam with energy.
[Fri Mar 29 23:22:47 2019] Konsent's eyes gleam with energy.
[Fri Mar 29 23:23:52 2019] Stabithaa's eyes gleam with energy.

In theory it is possible my logs missed the message, but I doubt it. I don't see Jumbasa use his duelist for the entire day.

It is also a bit too much of a conicidence that the max damage from the EQEMU code happens to match up exactly with the highest damage value I've seen.

The formula for this is (Weapon Damage + 3) * ((Backstab Skill * 0.02) + 2). (15 + 3) * ((235 * 0.02) + 2) = 120. (120 weapon damage * 2) * 2.85 percentage multiplier cap + 11 damage bonus = 695 damage at best. The 696 we saw above is probably due to rounding.

[Cecily]

Actually the max backstab is 553 and 1106 with duelist.

[Cecily]

Are you deliberately trolling? With a 15 damage weapon, that means Mrylo or Ragebringer, both of which most rogues don't use mainhand due to 13 damage Vyemm's Fang being way more accessible. That max hit will be lower than the 553 / 1106 potential max. You don't know that rogues get double backstab. You are not qualified to spout meaningless damage calcs when the answer is already solved.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you deliberately trolling? With a 15 damage weapon, that means Mrylo or Ragebringer, both of which most rogues don't use mainhand due to 13 damage Vyemm's Fang being way more accessible. That max hit will be lower than the 553 / 1106 potential max. You don't know that rogues get double backstab. You are not qualified to spout meaningless damage calcs when the answer is already solved.

I'm not trolling. I am looking at real p99 logs and the EQEMU code, which P99 is derived from. If you have some counter evidence I would love to see it.