Best solo melee class?

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bards can swing their melee weapons while casting songs. It's different from a Cleric casting spells in melee, as the Cleric cannot swing their melee weapon until the spell finishes.



Indeed, instruments will help. I am just not familiar with how the instrument modifiers work, so I didn't include them.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=50223

Check out the spreadsheet in this post. You plug in your level and instrument mods and you can get an idea. Shows how much more dot damage you get with instruments for example.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=50223

Check out the spreadsheet in this post. You plug in your level and instrument mods and you can get an idea. Shows how much more dot damage you get with instruments for example.

Thanks! That is really handy.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Monk would be using bind wound.

Bind wound wasn't included in my example because the Monk would be above 50% HP after the fight.

I'd be curious to know if bards can bind wound while singing Hymn. If so then both can bind wound below 50%, so it would even out anyway.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd he curious to know if bards can bind wound while singing hymn. If so then both can bind wound below 50%, so it would even out anyway.

Yes they can. You should try playing a bard, they're really fairly unique in terms of game mechanics, and a lot of fun to level.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes they can. You should try playing a bard, they're really fairly unique in terms of game mechanics, and a lot of fun to level.

Good to know!

Bard is a class I would love to level up. It will be fun to learn their unique mechanics. I just don't have the time to level a brand new character these days.

[zelld52]

people talk about charming at higher levels, that is no longer melee. bard melee capability drops off severely the same level as all other melee classes - with the exception of fear kiting.

in this regard, bard is the better choice over SK because they dont need to meditate to cast snare / fear.

when it comes to pure melee though, standing toe to toe - a bard twisting all their powerful songs at level 40 could not do the same type of damage that a warrior or monk could do, because they lack double attack. they also lack the defensive skills that monk and warrior have, so would take more damage. they could recover alot easier and quicker with healing songs, but the fights will go faster if youre meleeing with a "fighter" class like rogue, warrior, monk or even ranger - these classes all get double attack, and get WAYYYY higher defensive skills than bard (whos riposte caps at 75, dodge caps at 155, parry caps at 185 - compared to ranger, the worst defensive abilities of all melee with 185 cap riposte, 170 cap dodge, and 220 cap on parry)

bard has better ways of controlling adds, slowing, snaring, fearing, etc. but they are most certainly not a "fighter" class.

soloability, bard has it way better than all the other melee - but again - bard is not a "true" melee character. gonna beat the dead horse here and say that double attack and parry/block, dodge and riposte is what separates melee from the rest. WAR MNK ROG SHD PAL RNG <--- "True" melees with double attack and higher defensive capabilities

Bard arent typically considered a fighter or melee in something like DnD, they arent in many other games that have them as playable characters. parse a raid log, and have the bards doing melee attacks. i bet theyre <50% damage of the worst rogue on the raid.

you CAN melee on a bard, and thats why EQ is great. you can also melee on a shaman - shit i levelled 3 shaman and slow tanked while meleeing until level 46-49 on all 3. but i wouldnt say shaman is the best solo melee class.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in this regard, bard is the better choice over SK because they dont need to meditate to cast snare / fear.

Once SK's get to level 45 they don't need to use mana on snare / fear unless they are an Iksar. I use Blood Ember Gloves and Boots a lot to save on mana, even at level 60. I rarely use my higher duration fear spells, as they aren't good for fearing in tight spaces like dungeons.

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you CAN melee on a bard, and thats why EQ is great. you can also melee on a shaman - shit i levelled 3 shaman and slow tanked while meleeing until level 46-49 on all 3. but i wouldnt say shaman is the best solo melee class.

I don't think anyone was saying Bard (or Shaman) were the best melee class. I was just showing that Bard is better at melee than one might assume when it comes to kills per hour from levels 1-45 or so.

In the lower levels spell haste helps to make up for lack of double attack (same with a Shaman), especially before double attack is skill capped. Bard's ability to slow and regenerate HP allows them to recover quickly, which helps make up for the lower DPS as well. Plus DoTs can add a bit of missing DPS. They are indeed similar to Shamans in this regard now that you mention it.

[Snaggles]

Almost everything in EQ needs three disclaimers next to it.

A bard can do damage with spells (if they land) or melee (on anything). It’s not high-level of DPS but technically they can. They can also sustain this almost forever. Even burning mana on charming you have far more than 1hr of constant charms (on the higher ranked one) before you will go OOM.

They are a flexible support class. However, for solo work between all the tricks they are by far the most capable “hybrid melee” archetype unless you can’t snare, slow, or fear and the mob summons. If that’s the case, it becomes a dangerous game of charm and regen/click’quest.

If you do the math on a toe-to-toe fight, a melee bard is not matching a monk, warrior, or even a normal hybrid. Considering they can self-haste for a duration with a Howler Lute click, sing a 1min duration slow, and then weave other spells like regen, dots, or damage shields the overall package works pretty well for taking damage and dishing it out.

The main opponent of this approach is the fact that same bard could just swarm or charm kill at multiple times the speed. Or pick up a melee and reverse kite stuff with less drama and while keeping its drum equipped for better dots and run speed.

I have a poorly geared who is frequently use for tasks my other classes can’t do. An enchanter is more powerful in almost every way. In most situations a necro is as well. A geared and well played bard especially outdoors likely will rival both in most situations. Any class that can pick up a bronze medal among those fellow competitors is worth trying out. Especially if the cost of entry is some bronze armor and a Mistmoore drum…

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

soloability, bard has it way better than all the other melee - but again - bard is not a "true" melee character. gonna beat the dead horse here and say that double attack and parry/block, dodge and riposte is what separates melee from the rest. WAR MNK ROG SHD PAL RNG <--- "True" melees with double attack and higher defensive capabilities

Bard arent typically considered a fighter or melee in something like DnD, they arent in many other games that have them as playable characters. parse a raid log, and have the bards doing melee attacks. i bet theyre <50% damage of the worst rogue on the raid.

you CAN melee on a bard, and thats why EQ is great. you can also melee on a shaman - shit i levelled 3 shaman and slow tanked while meleeing until level 46-49 on all 3. but i wouldnt say shaman is the best solo melee class.

This is what I prefer about DAoC, specifically for this class. Three options are provided—skald, bard, and minstrel. The skald is more physical/melee, the bard is more cerebral/caster, and the minstrel is neither one nor the other but a little of both, more of a jack of all trades. So that ability to choose your own adventurer is more akin to DnD with bard colleges that differentiate one playstyle from another.

Even so, upgrades in EQ present options in how one can choose to play their class. Without the epic or Velious piercers, bards can still benefit from wielding certain melee weapons, from Melodious Truncheon to Guardians Mace. Situational, but still relevant. If their aggro was corrected/reverted, weapons would see more regular use given that bards would be able to tank, holding aggro and compensating for low defenses and nonexistent defensive skills by applying slow songs. That plus the ability to layer on plate AC and a shield...

As you said, similar to shaman in that way, thanks to being able to slow on demand.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What, is your definition of bard melee just autoattacking without playing songs?

I just think it's wrong to classify Bard as a melee class. That term should be reserved for classes who gain the majority of their worth by attacking in combat. Bard's power is tied to their songs, with their melee attacks just being a bonus sometimes.

Especially if you don't have an epic. You will do more DPS by instrument swapping between DoT's than you will by keeping weapons equipped.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just think it's wrong to classify Bard as a melee class. That term should be reserved for classes who gain the majority of their worth by attacking in combat. Bard's power is tied to their songs, with their melee attacks just being a bonus sometimes.

Especially if you don't have an epic. You will do more DPS by instrument swapping between DoT's than you will by keeping weapons equipped.

Bards are hybrids, which is why their classification is in a grey area. They are have more melee skills than any traditional caster. This includes Shamans, who are the most melee oriented of all the traditional caster classes.

Remember that Bards get Dual Wield, Parry, Riposte, Weapon Skills that exceed 200 past level 50, Offense skill that exceeds 200 past level 50, and Defense Skill that exceeds 200 past level 50. That is quite a bit more melee prowess than a Shaman, who caps at 200 Weapon skill/Offense Skill/Defense Skill, cannot dual wield, cannot double attack, cannot Parry, cannot Riposte, and only has 75 Dodge Skill. Shamans don't get the main hand damage bonus either.

Bards do get the main hand damage bonus, while casters do not. This is probably the clearest indicator that Bards are melee oriented.