Is Lull not classic?

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Peeps did know early on that cha made lulls better, we were not uber guilded or leet players.
I remember being unsure if cha made a difference in mez/memblur success.

This is patently false. Many people here were children back then and like to project, but they were the exception in the rather large player base. We're talking hundreds of thousands of computer savvy adults—IT professionals and lifelong gamers mainly. Orders of magnitude more than who play here. It's absurd to think no one could possibly figure out the basic function of stats.

There's plenty of evidence of people running experiments for things like CHA effectiveness for mez, etc and we've lost a ton of data over the years to link rot.

Lull was so clearly terrible that documenting exactly how terrible it was was not a particularly useful endeavor. There's a reason the devs fixed it.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Had a static 6 person with a chanter who never charmed. He prioritized cha for CC only visited the chanter forums a lil bit to get a good idea for stat/equipment selection.

From just before Kunark dropping but we werent powerlevelers more adventurers/reliving the D and D of our youth. We lived in guk karnors and kaesora (eventually) hole and kedge.
Peeps did know early on that cha made lulls better, we were not uber guilded or leet players.
I remember being unsure if cha made a difference in mez/memblur success.

I started from scratch on p99 with my chanter.

I had around 190 cha at level 45, doing CS wyverns to 51. At that point I was basically getting no resists anymore on root/stun/mez/charm/nukes. I do tash everything though. Then I moved to HS early 50s, velks mid 50s (when I finally capped cha) and seb late 50s and I only started seeing resists again on 51+ mobs but it was a significant increase.

Resist wise lull is its own thing. The charisma resist modifier on this eqemu page says it applies to charm, mez and memblur.

https://www.eqemulator.org/forums/sh...11&postcount=9

My experience shows me mez and charm have a similar resist behavior but memblur is tricky because it always lands but doesn't always work so it is hard to guesstimate unless you test it extensively.

Recently there was a charisma effect on charm thread and IIRC he found that at 50+ charisma started to move the needle. I'd guess level gap and tash at 60 will dull mob resists beyond charisma being useful but at 51+ mobs level gap narrows and their MR goes up so those two factors will leave some room for cha to do something. I'd assume it does the same for mez/blur.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's plenty of evidence of people running experiments for things like CHA effectiveness for mez, etc and we've lost a ton of data over the years to link rot.

Maybe some people tested on obscure boards but the knowledge base back then was fucking terrible in the general playerbase to stay polite. Most people didn't know how dual wield works and didn't know about bonus damage formulas. Almost every single monk was running a wu stick and a KD or canes of the tranquil long into velious+ vs. today where those are considered junk. I'd argue the general knowledge base is much much better today which makes sense because the game is 25 years old.

In the pacify bug thread I snapped appropriate comments from the relevant era and most people knew ench/bard needed cha but it seemed really unclear why and how much they needed it. Seemed like a secondary stat if not an afterthought for them. I don't think you can claim those mechanics were well known, we're still discovering stuff and debunking myths to this day. I'm not saying everyone was dumb, the warrior boards did some fine work but it wasn't the majority of players, there were a ton of casuals back then who couldn't be bothered beyond the basics.

[Jimjam]

I think a part of the gear issue people were facing is that weapons were far rarer on live, which necessitated 'poor' options - the decent stuff just didn't drop and wasn't affordable to buy. Check price history on Allakhazam!

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a part of the gear issue people were facing is that weapons were far rarer on live, which necessitated 'poor' options - the decent stuff just didn't drop and wasn't affordable to buy. Check price history on Allakhazam!

I had an IFS I remember buying for 7k, not too crazy but that was late velious I think.

There was a fashion effect though, the velium brawl sticks were very in vogue even if they're subpar to IFS and you had a ton of wurmslayers even though it is mostly known to be garbage now. I think the market was just different because people didn't know some basic stuff but also because there were items that were lesser known. The raiding guilds weren't as advanced either so there was possibly more pressure on the market I'd guess.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had an IFS I remember buying for 7k, not too crazy but that was late velious I think.

There was a fashion effect though, the velium brawl sticks were very in vogue even if they're subpar to IFS and you had a ton of wurmslayers even though it is mostly known to be garbage now. I think the market was just different because people didn't know some basic stuff but also because there were items that were lesser known. The raiding guilds weren't as advanced either so there was possibly more pressure on the market I'd guess.

Fashion was certainly a factor. During Kunark on live someone offered to trade me a Cloak of Flames for my Wurmslayer. 56k died before I got to do the trade, but people put a lot of stake into fashionquest on live. Especially unique graphics.

[Duik]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is patently false. Many people here were children back then and like to project, but they were the exception in the rather large player base. We're talking hundreds of thousands of computer savvy adults—IT professionals and lifelong gamers mainly. Orders of magnitude more than who play here. It's absurd to think no one could possibly figure out the basic function of stats.

There's plenty of evidence of people running experiments for things like CHA effectiveness for mez, etc and we've lost a ton of data over the years to link rot.

Lull was so clearly terrible that documenting exactly how terrible it was was not a particularly useful endeavor. There's a reason the devs fixed it.

Well ok then mr i know everything aboit everyone.

I just told you my experience. I was defo not a child in 2000 as i was halfway through buying a house. Took me 7 years btw.

Also, while I didnt personally know how chanters and cha worked (I was a wizard) our chanter did quite well at the crowd control job he had. So basically, you can get fucked.

Your totally dismissive attitude tells me that you still are a child and therefore need to shut the hell up till spoken to specifically.

Thank you for your attention at this time.

[kjs86z2]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had an IFS I remember buying for 7k, not too crazy but that was late velious I think.

There was a fashion effect though, the velium brawl sticks were very in vogue even if they're subpar to IFS and you had a ton of wurmslayers even though it is mostly known to be garbage now. I think the market was just different because people didn't know some basic stuff but also because there were items that were lesser known. The raiding guilds weren't as advanced either so there was possibly more pressure on the market I'd guess.

I accidentally (drunkenly?) swapped to my OT hammer instead of Facesmasher before and disappeared on a group.

[Duik]

You didnt like the dps of the facesmasher? People are sooo picky. ;+P

Also keebz will say children back in the day didnt know a facesmasher was better than an OT hammer. They just didnt understand.

[kjs86z2]

same graphic op