Spawn Varience

[Krimsin]

Turn on PvP.

May the best guild win.

[Bigcountry23]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Shiftin]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whoever clears to the boss first and engages first gets it, but if the boss hasn't spawned yet, then the first to 15 rules would apply. Again, I don't think camping raid spawns is a good thing at all, I'm not even sure if it's better or worse than FTE, but let's just get things straight: no variance doesn't mean "everything is FTE". The same rules as normal would apply.

Noble is an example of a boss without variance that can be camped. This was clarified a few weeks ago. Again, I'm not saying this is good, bad, better, worse, etc. than FTE. I'm just saying that FTE has pretty much nothing to do with the suggestion in this thread.

Sooooo you want it to be pretty much exactly like it is now, except remove the variance and force people to go back to actually sitting at their computers poopsocking? Do YOU want to sit in naggy's lair for 24 hours having to repond to challenges about your AFK status at a moment's notice? Because I'd way prefer to help my guild track a few nights a week and, you know, hang out with my family some.

I actually like the thought of all the mobs respawning at the same time, as long as that trigger for repops has an element of variance. That is 2-3 less days a week we have to burn people out wearing out their track hotkeys. (Yes, we actually track for mobs, with actual druids and rangers, 24/7 when mobs are due to spawn. No, we don't know when things will spawn no matter what nonsense you've read in R&F.)

Originally Posted by Mise [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remove variance. Get the tops guild to stop acting like children when most of the server is in their 30s-40s. Set up a rotation.

I <3 when people say this. Please explain 1. What incentive the guilds currently getting the bosses have to voluntarily give them away, 2. Why the GMs care / would waste their time trying to enforce this and 3. How this is classic.

[Omnimorph]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whoever clears to the boss first and engages first gets it, but if the boss hasn't spawned yet, then the first to 15 rules would apply. Again, I don't think camping raid spawns is a good thing at all, I'm not even sure if it's better or worse than FTE, but let's just get things straight: no variance doesn't mean "everything is FTE". The same rules as normal would apply.

Noble is an example of a boss without variance that can be camped. This was clarified a few weeks ago. Again, I'm not saying this is good, bad, better, worse, etc. than FTE. I'm just saying that FTE has pretty much nothing to do with the suggestion in this thread.

Also I'd like someone to respond to what I said earlier about simultaneous repops. No variance means that bosses will inevitably have to respawn at the same time (and then roughly the same time for the weeks after), making stupid strategies like poopsocking pretty much impossible unless you want to guarantee yourself only one boss.

edit: oh, also, variance isn't classic.

Isn't that how it was? and you did have people camping spawns pretty much the same as now. Fact is with any sort of recognised spawn time you're going to have guilds sitting at the spawn point, or camping a character there.

What you have now is trackers in the zones where the windows are due, and when the windows wind down to a space of like 20-30 hrs, you have people showing up in the zone to be there for when it spawns since they're not doing anything and will be heading there when it spawns anyway. So most of the time you don't have people camping the spawn thanks to the variance. This is why it was introduced and for the most part does it effectively. If you had no variance then you'd have people ALWAYS waiting for the boss, even if other bosses were due, they'd prioritise the one they want and be there.

As for the non-variance with the simultaneous (or almost simultaneous) spawning, you'd be taking all the boss mobs over the week and forcing them into a day. Which imho would be worse than what we have now.

[Kassel]

I dont see how removing variance will change anything. Guilds will just line up (15 ppl camping) earlier and earlier. Poopsocking will increase because people will know exactly how long they have to sock to get a win. WRT to a rotation, on my server there was one during classic it was only ever player enforced, the main problem was when a new guild or alliance wanted to get in on the fun and further diluted the available mobs. The rotation was only ever Classic mobs/planes and fizzled out near the end of Kunark.

[redghosthunter]

Originally Posted by Krimsin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Turn on PvP.

May the best guild win.

Hehe, Pvp really does solve it. But not a option. /sigh

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Omnimorph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for the non-variance with the simultaneous (or almost simultaneous) spawning, you'd be taking all the boss mobs over the week and forcing them into a day. Which imho would be worse than what we have now.

..why would that be worse? That's frequently how it was on Live. A wise man once said, "it's classic".

At some point all raid mobs would have to pop at once (like after server restarts), so every seven days after that, they'd pop at roughly the same time, assuming they were killed at roughly the same time. I'm not talking about forced simultaneous respawning, in case anyone misunderstood. It wouldn't need to be forced.

Every single response to the effect of "now everyone will just poopsock more!" needs to take into account the fact I mentioned above, and that I've mentioned in all of my posts in this thread. I still haven't seen an adequate response yet.

Originally Posted by Shiftin

Sooooo you want it to be pretty much exactly like it is now, except remove the variance and force people to go back to actually sitting at their computers poopsocking? Do YOU want to sit in naggy's lair for 24 hours having to repond to challenges about your AFK status at a moment's notice? Because I'd way prefer to help my guild track a few nights a week and, you know, hang out with my family some.

See above. Go ahead and poopsock naggy, but you'll lose other bosses that are popping roughly the same time. Or, if you're quick enough, you might get all of them, who knows. Poopsocking will give an advantage no matter what system you introduce; that advantage is mitigated a lot more when there's no spawn variance.

Also, just a note: no one's ever "forced" to poopsock, even if another guild does it. Hopefully this would make guilds more willing to work out deals on certain bosses, but I don't know enough to really comment on that.

Originally Posted by Kassel

Guilds will just line up (15 ppl camping) earlier and earlier. Poopsocking will increase because people will know exactly how long they have to sock to get a win.

...see above.

Originally Posted by Shiftin

(Yes, we actually track for mobs, with actual druids and rangers, 24/7 when mobs are due to spawn. No, we don't know when things will spawn no matter what nonsense you've read in R&F.)

I never said anything like this, so please get any thoughts out of your head that I'm just bitter at DA and IB's haxor skills. I thought we were being pretty civil in this thread, I'd like to keep it that way.

[Starklen]

Any system you invent that doesn't overtly force sharing is always going to have the same result, with a different way of getting there. Under the old rules, virtually all of the loot went to two guilds. Under the new rules, pretty much the same. When there was a full server repop, same thing again. This will never change until the quantity of targets increases to the point that even the slowest and least organized guilds can clear to, and kill a boss, before another guild can kill its choice target(s) and come back to it.

[Mcbard]

Originally Posted by Omnimorph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Isn't that how it was? and you did have people camping spawns pretty much the same as now. Fact is with any sort of recognised spawn time you're going to have guilds sitting at the spawn point, or camping a character there.

What you have now is trackers in the zones where the windows are due, and when the windows wind down to a space of like 20-30 hrs, you have people showing up in the zone to be there for when it spawns since they're not doing anything and will be heading there when it spawns anyway. So most of the time you don't have people camping the spawn thanks to the variance. This is why it was introduced and for the most part does it effectively. If you had no variance then you'd have people ALWAYS waiting for the boss, even if other bosses were due, they'd prioritise the one they want and be there.

As for the non-variance with the simultaneous (or almost simultaneous) spawning, you'd be taking all the boss mobs over the week and forcing them into a day. Which imho would be worse than what we have now.

Hmm fwiw I don't think that people should be allowed to "camp" Naggy or any named raid mob like that. I mean they can sit there sure, but imo the guild that zones in 20 minutes before he pops and buffs up should have just as much a shot at the boss as anyone else. What this means is that instead of "poopsocking" if the variance was gone, guilds would basically be competing for agro when the mob popped, meaning as long as they zone in and have a presence before it spawns they will have just as equal a shot at engaging the mob as anyone else and there won't be any fighting over a "Nagafen camp" or "Innoruuk camp" because those shouldnt be "campable".


Also, lulz at people camping DA idols: http://img26.imageshack.us/i/eq000107.jpg/

[Mise]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I <3 when people say this. Please explain 1. What incentive the guilds currently getting the bosses have to voluntarily give them away, 2. Why the GMs care / would waste their time trying to enforce this and 3. How this is classic.

1. The incentive is not having to poopsock. Setting a definite time to raid that doesn't involve logging in bleary eyed at 3am to down a raid target takes some pressure off the players, and you'll probably have less burnouts. Yes, the two guilds that are getting everything right now would have to give some of that up.

2. It would not be in any way GM enforced, so the GMs don't have to care. All the guilds that are capable of downing bosses would have to sign up for a raid calendar. Any guild that hijacks something would then be blacklisted by the entire raiding community.

3. We worked out a rotation just fine in classic on my server.

I'm not saying it's not a huge mountain to climb, with all the animosity between guilds and grown men acting like children, but it would certainly be the ideal to work toward a rotation.

Obviously this topic has been beaten to death on these forums, and by the looks of things it'll probably never happen. If the variance were removed though, I think a rotation would become more of a possibility once people realize how stupid it is to sit on a spawn with 200 other people and 4-5 guilds waiting to get the first engage.