Where's the fun in raiding?

[ludovician]

Originally Posted by fishingme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All I can add to this thread is that raids are fcuking boring. It's all zerging, raiding would be fun if it was skill oriented raids. Doing more with less. But raids are for the most part pretty shitty.

This.

I played another EQEmu server that had custom content, 14 tiers of raiding (100+ targets) and a maximum raid force of 18 people with fights that strategically were far beyond tank and spank.

From start to finish if not using twinks, a guild could expect up to a year's worth of weekly raids while climbing through tiers to gear everyone and be able to move on.

Life exists beyond EQ!

[contemptor]

Originally Posted by Thulack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bringing people together to work for 1 goal of getting some useful loot for people.

Pretty much this. Fun things with friends. Relative low number kills are fun, but it's rare to have the opportunity.

Few of the 1999 encounters are really complicated except for the 1-6 main people. It's typically the pull, positioning, maybe dodging AEs and junks/dispels
Loved a few live encounters like Emp SSRA. Stuff that has real strategy and teamwork

[kaev]

Originally Posted by fishingme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Find me a single guild on this server that's actively raiding and doing shit with 10-15 players with no more than 2 people of the same class in the raid.

Generally, the guilds doing minor raids with smaller numbers are going to have a fairly random makeup to their crew at any given event. There may well be 3 or more of a given class present. There may well be as many as 30 people present from 2 or 3 different guilds if target is at/near their limits. There is no gatekeeper demanding that "only 2 per class may attend", or "all must be level such and so", or "all must have x+y+z items", or "we already have 2 warlords in the guild, app denied".

The obsessive "we're better than you types" your post suggests you worship are actually the backbone of the huge guilds. Small raids are being done mostly by casual outfits like <Ill Tempered Sea Bass>, <Blackheart Pirates>, <Kittens Who Say Meow>, and others perhaps as well. And honestly, small casual outfits hitting WW dragons, or Chardok Royals, or Fear/Hate, or whatever, are having a ton of fun without any of the time-consuming demands & regimentation found amongst the elf-sim emulator elitists.

You don't have go for Sontalak with 80 to have fun raiding. You don't have to participate in competitive CotH ducking for hours on end while poopsocking Sev to have a good time. You can do those things if you want to, but it isn't mandatory.

[Swish]

I like the blur between "hardcore" and "casual" on blue... are you casual if you're zerging with 70-80 on a target at odd hours? Sure you are, if you say so... lol

[B4EQWASCOOL]

NERDS!

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You apparently never played live during the relevant content if you think that is a possibility in most cases. Velious content was made for 30-45 people for the most part. While that does require the proper classes for those encounters and there are a couple you can defeat with less. Thinking 10-15 people will be able to down anything of note just shows you are playing the wrong game.

Why do you even make the comparison between live and P99, do you not understand that there are major differences between both? We've been in constant beta since p1999 has been released. Of course most dragons and upper tiered HP mobs are going to require more than 10-15 people. Also, "Anything of note" is relative to how long content has been out for. Look at the solo artist challenge, would you of even thought most of that stuff was possible back when kunark just came out on live, or here? Or chardok royals being able to be killed with 1-2 groups? Were you even playing on p1999 when kunark came out on p99?

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Generally, the guilds doing minor raids with smaller numbers are going to have a fairly random makeup to their crew at any given event. There may well be 3 or more of a given class present. There may well be as many as 30 people present from 2 or 3 different guilds if target is at/near their limits. There is no gatekeeper demanding that "only 2 per class may attend", or "all must be level such and so", or "all must have x+y+z items", or "we already have 2 warlords in the guild, app denied".

The obsessive "we're better than you types" your post suggests you worship are actually the backbone of the huge guilds. Small raids are being done mostly by casual outfits like <Ill Tempered Sea Bass>, <Blackheart Pirates>, <Kittens Who Say Meow>, and others perhaps as well. And honestly, small casual outfits hitting WW dragons, or Chardok Royals, or Fear/Hate, or whatever, are having a ton of fun without any of the time-consuming demands & regimentation found amongst the elf-sim emulator elitists.

You don't have go for Sontalak with 80 to have fun raiding. You don't have to participate in competitive CotH ducking for hours on end while poopsocking Sev to have a good time. You can do those things if you want to, but it isn't mandatory.

It was an arbitrary number set for the classes to fit within the amount of 10-15 people for the classes that are needed in a raid before it becomes overkill.

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by ludovician [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This.

I played another EQEmu server that had custom content, 14 tiers of raiding (100+ targets) and a maximum raid force of 18 people with fights that strategically were far beyond tank and spank.

From start to finish if not using twinks, a guild could expect up to a year's worth of weekly raids while climbing through tiers to gear everyone and be able to move on.

Life exists beyond EQ!

Of course it does. Once you hit 60, you have your epic and best gear in game then what do you do? Everything that was once difficult is a breeze now that you're in nearly BiS everything and zerging through it. I suppose I'd rather play in a guild that's more about skill and calculations than the "Let us throw 100 warm bodies at this boss mob and see if we make it!" . I just don't find the point of that, okay so you've made any sort of challenge extinct, and somebody else pointed out that it's to have fun with friends. Do you really know all 100 of those people? Are you all chatting in vent keeping a conversation going? I highly doubt it especially considering how tyrannical most raid leaders in vent are. You may as well do something challenging with the 10-20 people that you actually DO know, and have known for more than just 2-8 groups in the past. Just my take on it though, if people like bashing their heads against the wall and not testing themselves then it's a pretty moot point.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by fishingme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you even make the comparison between live and P99, do you not understand that there are major differences between both? We've been in constant beta since p1999 has been released. Of course most dragons and upper tiered HP mobs are going to require more than 10-15 people. Also, "Anything of note" is relative to how long content has been out for. Look at the solo artist challenge, would you of even thought most of that stuff was possible back when kunark just came out on live, or here? Or chardok royals being able to be killed with 1-2 groups? Were you even playing on p1999 when kunark came out on p99?

Probably because p99 is supposed to be as it was during live... And no, anything of note is not restricted by how long content has been put. It refers to targets that require more than a single group. Otherwise feel free to go 10 man phinny and drusela as much as you like.

This game is based on the live version of EQ during kunark and now velious eras. None of that "raid" content was tuned specifically for 10-15 people and was done with so few until expansions later. EQ came before catering to casuals or the "but we want to experience everything" kids. You want to experience the raid content then you have to raid which requires people in this game.

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Probably because p99 is supposed to be as it was during live... And no, anything of note is not restricted by how long content has been put. It refers to targets that require more than a single group. Otherwise feel free to go 10 man phinny and drusela as much as you like.

This game is based on the live version of EQ during kunark and now velious eras. None of that "raid" content was tuned specifically for 10-15 people and was done with so few until expansions later. EQ came before catering to casuals or the "but we want to experience everything" kids. You want to experience the raid content then you have to raid which requires people in this game.

Key word is "supposed". Gms aren't working off the original blueprints for the server, along with being that P99 is in reality a beta server that is attempting to mimic classic mechanics from memory and from old forum posts dating back. Devs pick and choose what they want to implement for the most part. Whether or not EQ was tuned for it is debatable in four areas. One of which being, how closely does P99 mimic EQ classic, two, What knowledge we had and now have of game mechanics, three computer hardware differences which includes network connections, and how much you min/max.

I don't believe Everquest ever ventured into the realm of casual or hardcore. It is simply unforgiving with corpse runs, and it can take you time to level which most people only had 2 characters above the lvl 45 mark. Everquest I doubt was meant for hardcores or casuals. I recall one of the original devs of everquest saying that he never thought Everquest was going to be the success that it was, and given the era that it went live in, you wouldn't of catered to hardcore gamers.

Every game that has areas that are deemed "raids" requires people. Moot point.