OCCUPY WALLSTREET! [Archive] - Page 2

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Jerry Garcia

11-18-2011, 02:03 AM

I do not understand....

All the HIPPIES and FRINGE IDIOTS of our society have taken steps to HERD themselves together in BROADCASTED locations...

Why are we not wiping these morons out and start saving oxygen for those Americans that actually are productive tax paying citizens!

Where is the Jim Jones Kool-Aid stand when you need it!!!

tite

burkemi5

11-18-2011, 02:09 AM

"Fraud
National Lawyer’s Guild member Ari Douglas pretends to be run over by a police scooter"

lol at this as well

Slathar

11-18-2011, 02:30 AM

"Fraud
National Lawyer’s Guild member Ari Douglas pretends to be run over by a police scooter"

lol at this as well

you sound like a fat redneck living in a shitheel town in the midwest, fyi

burkemi5

11-18-2011, 02:32 AM

you sound like a fat redneck living in a shitheel town in the midwest, fyi

columbus? i already stated i go to ohio state. come at me more though don't really see what i did to warrant all the personal attacks

purest

11-18-2011, 02:34 AM

uh no he's like 20 yr old college student who lives w/mom as never had a job, plays eq and names his characters "squirteen" clearly he knows about how the world works

Akim

11-18-2011, 02:38 AM

Occupy Keyboards will be in full effect tomorrow around 6...

burkemi5

11-18-2011, 02:44 AM

uh no he's like 20 yr old college student who lives w/mom as never had a job, plays eq and names his characters "squirteen" clearly he knows about how the world works

well there is no use in trying to convince all you retards of anything. i'm not even 20 yrs old, i'm 19 and i live my mom's basement. i weight 400 lbs, eat doritos and play EQ all day. it's ok though cuz i'm taking online classes at devry and i hope i can be a store manager of a CVS someday. it's hard, but i'm trying really hard and i'm proud of my 2.5 GPA! I'm hoping i can move out of the basement into the upstairs bedroom one day but it's hard to find a job here in Flint, Michigan to afford a bigger bed.

Massive Marc

11-18-2011, 02:52 AM

Diggles

11-18-2011, 02:54 AM

Truth

11-18-2011, 02:58 AM

well there is no use in trying to convince all you retards of anything. i'm not even 20 yrs old, i'm 19 and i live my mom's basement. i weight 400 lbs, eat doritos and play EQ all day. it's ok though cuz i'm taking online classes at devry and i hope i can be a store manager of a CVS someday. it's hard, but i'm trying really hard and i'm proud of my 2.5 GPA! I'm hoping i can move out of the basement into the upstairs bedroom one day but it's hard to find a job here in Flint, Michigan to afford a bigger bed.
http://images.wikia.com/southpark/images/5/5b/DieHippieDie03.jpg

Truth

11-18-2011, 02:59 AM

haahaa
thing is

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/1/22/b0739e4b-bf7b-4860-b49f-ee5e188fe3f8.jpg

burkemi5

11-18-2011, 12:17 PM

haahaa
thing is

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/1/22/b0739e4b-bf7b-4860-b49f-ee5e188fe3f8.jpg

Hoggen

11-18-2011, 07:35 PM

Actually this country was founded on the idea that you should have the right to believe what you want, fight and protest for what you believe in, and not let the "rich and powerful" run your life you fucking moron. OHAI GUYZ I'm gonna particiate in debates then ignore people who don't agree with me. I bet you're a liberal.

I'm not going to bother quoting endless writings of founding fathers to show you how ignorant you are, Nune. And as to listening to idiots rave on endlessly about things they have no respect for or understanding of, it's neither suggested nor required by the Constitution. I suppose you would like me to listen to people that think the earth is flat or that we never went to the moon and take their arguments seriously?

Well, I just wasted way more time than I did responding to Hasbinbad, but then again I haven't seen you saying "fuck your property rights" or wishing death on everyone that has served in the US military.

Akim

11-18-2011, 07:44 PM

This isn't being taken serious. It's not accomplishing anything and it's a shame because they have legitimate complaints. I agree with their cause, but man I don't agree with them.

Liberal pussies hi-jacked it just like corporations hi-jacked the tea party. Anarchist activists made occupy, ron paul supporters made the tea party.

Truth

11-18-2011, 07:45 PM

Liberal pussies hi-jacked it just like corporations hi-jacked the tea party. Anarchist activists made occupy, ron paul supporters made the tea party.

purest

11-18-2011, 07:47 PM

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8325/messt.jpg

Truth

11-18-2011, 07:53 PM

man you faggots better get RP in while we still have a psuedo democratic power structure in this country

oldfish

11-18-2011, 08:16 PM

Harrison

11-18-2011, 08:17 PM

uh no he's like 20 yr old college student who lives w/mom as never had a job, plays eq and names his characters "squirteen" clearly he knows about how the world works

^hides behind anonymity for fear of reprisal.

oldfish

11-18-2011, 08:34 PM

Doesn't matter if they're associated with with occupy or not. "Occupy" is worthless. It's doing nothing. It's not getting "Occupy Party" representatives elected (IE there's no organization), it's not sending lobbyists to Washington, it's not working to effect political change in an organized and politically recognized manner...it's doing nothing but making the occupiers look like lazy bums.

Seriously.

The reason it will not work is because america is not Egypt. Theres not enough pissed off people or they are brainwashed and pissed off at the wrong crowd.

Frankly this thing depresses me to no end. The western world will not wake up until it is too late im afraid.

We are just cattle to the 1%, just wait till the ecosystems collapse like a house of cards, it wont be pretty.

Truth

11-18-2011, 08:35 PM

Nobody who says he is a democrat/republican can watch this and not be thinking that democracy is in danger in the western world:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_f06VQOkI4

If not youre a closet fascist, end of story.

in middle school I got in trouble for throwing baseball at gurl in PE cuz it hit her ovary.. These cops are fucking gutting these chicks with their batons and the gurls aren't even fighting back or even provoked anything in the beginning at all

vaylorie

11-18-2011, 09:14 PM

These cops are fucking gutting these chicks with their batonsl

You serious? Lets evaluate the situation.

- Protesters are (peaceably) breaking the law. (see: time, manner, place & public property applications of constitutional protection before you cry about 'right to assemble').
- Police ask the unlawful gathering to disperse.
- They refuse.
- Police push them back.
- They refuse and yell at police more (still breaking the law here in case you aren't following).
- Police use force as per their protocol
- Protesters continue to resist

Was too much force used? I wasn't there but apparently there were no (official) injuries reported. In the video the people that are getting arrested aren't wincing and pain and crying so I'd assume they aren't injured, at least not too bad.

Police force should utilize the minimum amount required to accomplish their job when someone is breaking the law. They may have used more than was neccesary but again, I wasn't there and just watching the video so don't know the background before the 2 minutes that were on camera. But seriously... the police are 'gutting' them? Get real..

MrSparkle001

11-18-2011, 09:51 PM

Liberal pussies hi-jacked it just like corporations hi-jacked the tea party. Anarchist activists made occupy, ron paul supporters made the tea party.

At least the tea party got somewhere. They held meetings and rallies with the intention to effect change, not whine that they don't have enough money.

Akim

11-18-2011, 10:05 PM

At least the tea party got somewhere. They held meetings and rallies with the intention to effect change, not whine that they don't have enough money.

They did accomplish one thing, people know they exist now. Otherwise valid statement mrsparkle

oldfish

11-18-2011, 10:52 PM

You serious? Lets evaluate the situation.

- Protesters are (peaceably) breaking the law. (see: time, manner, place & public property applications of constitutional protection before you cry about 'right to assemble').
- Police ask the unlawful gathering to disperse.
- They refuse.
- Police push them back.
- They refuse and yell at police more (still breaking the law here in case you aren't following).
- Police use force as per their protocol
- Protesters continue to resist

Was too much force used? I wasn't there but apparently there were no (official) injuries reported. In the video the people that are getting arrested aren't wincing and pain and crying so I'd assume they aren't injured, at least not too bad.

Police force should utilize the minimum amount required to accomplish their job when someone is breaking the law. They may have used more than was neccesary but again, I wasn't there and just watching the video so don't know the background before the 2 minutes that were on camera. But seriously... the police are 'gutting' them? Get real..

Are you fucking stupid?

Do you know how easily i can hurt you with my scrawny frame going full steam on your liver/chops/kidneys with a baton like that?

They could easily push those people back (theyre not fighting back) doing light hockey cross checks or wielding shields... Theyre out to hurt them, thats plain obvious.

oldfish

11-18-2011, 10:53 PM

People like you will only get where this is leading us when your nephew gets dissapeared and you go fuck, maybe i should not have been so complacent 20 years ago...

Heh.

vaylorie

11-18-2011, 11:27 PM

Are you fucking stupid?

Do you know how easily i can hurt you with my scrawny frame going full steam on your liver/chops/kidneys with a baton like that?

They could easily push those people back (theyre not fighting back) doing light hockey cross checks or wielding shields... Theyre out to hurt them, thats plain obvious.

As I said, I don't know if they used excessive force, I saw a 2 minute clip of a video in which the police yelled 'we are moving forward' and started to move froward using force. I didn't see anyone curling over in pain or seeming physically hurt by them so I can't say that it was police brutality. They may have and if so, shame on them.

You think the cops drove past and said 'oh shit look.. it's some college kids.. lets go club them with sticks!'. Clearly not. They are doing a job, you break the law and resist/refuse to comply with the law, police are authorized to use force. You on here crying police brutality like there are 20 insane hyped up cops savagely beating a small child is a stretch from what is in that video.

Show me the whole video and not some 2 minute segment designed to show the cops abusing people and then lets talk.

oldfish

11-19-2011, 12:55 AM

As I said, I don't know if they used excessive force, I saw a 2 minute clip of a video in which the police yelled 'we are moving forward' and started to move froward using force. I didn't see anyone curling over in pain or seeming physically hurt by them so I can't say that it was police brutality. They may have and if so, shame on them.

You think the cops drove past and said 'oh shit look.. it's some college kids.. lets go club them with sticks!'. Clearly not. They are doing a job, you break the law and resist/refuse to comply with the law, police are authorized to use force. You on here crying police brutality like there are 20 insane hyped up cops savagely beating a small child is a stretch from what is in that video.

Show me the whole video and not some 2 minute segment designed to show the cops abusing people and then lets talk.

I dont get it, you must have some ideological blinders that is not letting you see cops ramming batons full force on the side of people who are not behaving aggressively.

Hasbinbad

11-19-2011, 01:17 AM

I dont get it, you must have some ideological blinders that is not letting you see cops ramming batons full force on the side of people who are not behaving aggressively.
It's intentional ignorance. Typical head in the sand right winger ideology. To not be informed has become a virtue among that group; talk about brainwash.

Hasbinbad

11-19-2011, 11:54 AM

Can't wait to see how this is justified..
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vaylorie

11-19-2011, 01:50 PM

Apparently you don't get it hasbinbad... they are sitting there expecting it... Great, good for them.. standing up for their cause as foolish as it actually may be... I'm not arguing or debating their cause... that doesn't mean that they aren't breaking the law and that the police are abusing their power...

You seem to have trouble understanding this.. so let me call it out specifically..
peaceful does not equal lawful

Is your point that this is again some kind of police brutality? Clearly it's not any kind of excessive force used. The police are charged with breaking up the unlawful gathering using non lethal force (exactly what is shown in the video)... You guys scour the internet to look for anything to actually make you feel justified in the violence and unlawful gatherings that occupy has become...

Klath

11-20-2011, 09:34 AM

Can't wait to see how this is justified..

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it as well.

California Penal Code Section 12403.7 (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12401.php)

(g) Any person who uses tear gas or tear gas weapons except in
self-defense is guilty of a public offense and is punishable by
imprisonment in a state prison for 16 months, or two or three years
or in a county jail not to exceed one year or by a fine not to exceed
one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment,
except that, if the use is against a peace officer, as defined in
Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2,
engaged in the performance of his or her official duties and the
person committing the offense knows or reasonably should know that
the victim is a peace officer, the offense is punishable by
imprisonment in a state prison for 16 months or two or three years or
by a fine of one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and
imprisonment.

Hasbinbad

11-20-2011, 03:13 PM

Right. Instead of just arresting the children 1 by 1 - because they knew they were just going to sit there, offering no resistance but to sit there - they used pepper pray, a "less lethal" weapon designed to disperse actively rioting groups of probably dangerous criminals.

That makes perfect sense. I don't know why I didn't see that before. Thank you.

booter

11-20-2011, 05:38 PM

Officers who did the spraying have been put on leave, so they obviously were in the wrong. What kind of human defends them? lol

vaylorie

11-20-2011, 06:19 PM

Just because they were put on leave doesn't mean they were wrong. That is standard practice in many departments when something controversial takes place.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that break the law and continually refuse to comply with notices and requests to comply. In many agencies the standard policy is to use tools like pepper spray when there are large crowds of non-compliant people violating the law...(not just "actively rioting groups of dangerous people") If the campus police that did this don't have such a policy and the campus police acted out of accordance with their rules, then again, shame on them and they can/should be dealt with.

I'm not defending their actions or calling them justified in doing so, but I am saying that what is in the video isn't necessarily excessive force nor is it inherently brutal punishment outside of standard police action. I am also saying that the protesters are undoubtedly (peacefully) violating the law and continually refusing to comply. There are peaceful ways to protest and get your point across, if you think unlawful action is the only way, then don't expect a pity party when the consequences come.

Klath

11-20-2011, 06:38 PM

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that break the law and continually refuse to comply with notices and requests to comply.
Yet you appear to have a lot of sympathy for people that break the law by using tear gas in a non self-defence situation.

Harrison

11-20-2011, 07:44 PM

I'd have sprayed them too just for making my job more difficult because they're whiny little twats. They're breaking the law, no sympathy for them, none. I hope it hurt like fuck.

Kraftwerk

11-20-2011, 09:49 PM

It's intentional ignorance. Typical head in the sand right winger ideology. To not be informed has become a virtue among that group; talk about brainwash.

Right wing, left wing. It's all the same. The only difference now are people who are pro the system currently in place (Republican/Democrats are the same exact thing, for reference please see all the ex-Goldman Sachs in political office through Obama - namely former Obama Treasury Secretary Nominee / thief of $600M+ customer money at MF Global John Corzine) and the people who are against the system progressing deeper into the abyss of corruption and ineptitude. As we make our way into the next coming credit downgrade of the United States (likely before Q2 2012) and the credit crash sparked on by Eurodebt becoming completely unmanageable in both the periphery and core it's going to take a lot more for people to be ignorant of the greed and manipulation taking place and the police force being used to perpetuate things the way TPTB want it move forward.

So while there are those stating whether the recent rash of police brutality and the methods of the protesters are lawful or not, one has to consider who those laws are there to protect. Certainly not the citizens. And if anyone thinks these protests are just a flash in the pan, I envy your naivety. Over the next decade when our government and those of Europe and Asia begin to take the currency wars to the next step and the majority of Americans begin to see their real wealth vanish from hyperinflation, that's when the real protests will start to begin.

vaylorie

11-20-2011, 10:05 PM

Yet you appear to have a lot of sympathy for people that break the law by using tear gas in a non self-defence situation.

Klath, I wasn't even going to respond to your previous post due to the inherent ignorance, but since apparently actually do believe that law enforcement is subject to the portion of the law that you quoted, I'll go ahead and quote an additional excerpt from the link you provided.

12403. Nothing in this chapter shall prohibit any person who is a peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, from purchasing, possessing, transporting, or using any tear gas or tear gas weapon if the person has satisfactorily completed a course of instruction approved by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training in the use of tear gas.

In summary, law enforcement isn't bound by utilizing these measure only in the interest of self defense.

Jerry Garcia

11-20-2011, 10:09 PM

It's okay because the book says it's okay.

Klath

11-20-2011, 10:37 PM

12403. Nothing in this chapter shall prohibit any person who is a peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, from purchasing, possessing, transporting, or using any tear gas or tear gas weapon if the person has satisfactorily completed a course of instruction approved by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training in the use of tear gas.

In summary, law enforcement isn't bound by utilizing these measure only in the interest of self defense.
All that says is that the police can use tear-gas. I'm not disputing that. The section of the law you quoted doesn't exempt police officers from the self defense restriction I quoted.

Convict

11-20-2011, 10:51 PM

Right wing, left wing. It's all the same. The only difference now are people who are pro the system currently in place (Republican/Democrats are the same exact thing, for reference please see all the ex-Goldman Sachs in political office through Obama - namely former Obama Treasury Secretary Nominee / thief of $600M+ customer money at MF Global John Corzine) and the people who are against the system progressing deeper into the abyss of corruption and ineptitude. As we make our way into the next coming credit downgrade of the United States (likely before Q2 2012) and the credit crash sparked on by Eurodebt becoming completely unmanageable in both the periphery and core it's going to take a lot more for people to be ignorant of the greed and manipulation taking place and the police force being used to perpetuate things the way TPTB want it move forward.

So while there are those stating whether the recent rash of police brutality and the methods of the protesters are lawful or not, one has to consider who those laws are there to protect. Certainly not the citizens. And if anyone thinks these protests are just a flash in the pan, I envy your naivety. Over the next decade when our government and those of Europe and Asia begin to take the currency wars to the next step and the majority of Americans begin to see their real wealth vanish from hyperinflation, that's when the real protests will start to begin.
sad cuz true :(

Jerry Garcia

11-20-2011, 11:04 PM

sad cuz true :(

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o8Y9-JlSRXw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hasbinbad

11-20-2011, 11:38 PM

I'd have sprayed them too just for making my job more difficult because they're whiny little twats. They're breaking the law, no sympathy for them, none. I hope it hurt like fuck.
I'm glad your brother died. I hope he was in a lot of pain when it happened.

Convict

11-20-2011, 11:43 PM

I'd have sprayed them too just for making my job more difficult because they're whiny little twats. They're breaking the law, no sympathy for them, none. I hope it hurt like fuck.
You're a fucking horrible person. You will die alone.

Cyrano

11-21-2011, 12:59 AM

I'm glad your brother died. I hope he was in a lot of pain when it happened.

I'm sorry man but you should be banned from these forums forever for saying that shit. That's reprehensible and inexcusable.

purest

11-21-2011, 01:04 AM

uh no, harrison does the same shit literally every day. in fact he can barely type 2 sentences without resisting the urge to wish death on someone or relish in the thought of someone else dying.

Though if you killed yourself now, no one would care.

Kill yourself, please, for the sake of your kids. Those poor fucks have the unfortunate position to have been sired by a useless alcoholic trannie.

so spare me your bullshit moral outrage

Cyrano

11-21-2011, 01:08 AM

I don't see a parallel there at all. There's a difference between insulting someone and saying that you hope a soldier died in pain. Whether you like or dislike Harrison the death of his brother doesn't belong in a conversation under the context used.

If HBB had said, "Go kill yourself you ignorant sack of shit." I'd have no issue with it because it's just a ludicrous insult no one takes seriously.

purest

11-21-2011, 01:11 AM

u dont see the parallel ? let me spell it out for u

harrison: i would be glad if you died

hbb: i am glad your brother died

Cyrano

11-21-2011, 01:16 AM

u dont see the parallel ? let me spell it out for u

harrison: i would be glad if you died

hbb: i am glad your brother died

If my kid was getting bullied at school and responded to the kid, "I'm glad your mom died and I hope she was in lots of pain when it happened," he would be in a world of trouble for me. There's a marked difference between insulting someone with meaningless comments and harping on truly painful and life altering events. He didn't even have to acknowledge Harrison's comments.

So no, I don't see the parallel at all. I'm not disputing that Harrison can be a flat out shithead to people on these forums but there are always boundaries and Hasbin crossed that line imo.

I'm sorry you're desensitized to the real world pain of others but if you think it's okay to say what HBB said then you are so out of touch with reality it's pointless trying to give you an alternative perspective to your own.

purest

11-21-2011, 01:21 AM

ya except there's not a marked difference at all

its 2 ppl who wish death or relish in the prospect of the death of internet strangers

you are desperately grasping for straws and failing

Cyrano

11-21-2011, 01:27 AM

I've never seen one indication from Harrison to suggest that he actually wishes death on anyone. I constantly see people say things like, "Your parents should have aborted you." all over this forum that don't hold any merit because they are simply talking trash.

Actively attacking a very real, very recent, and very personal loss of one of our community is beyond any comment or threat I've seen made on these forums. It goes beyond people belittling the children of forum members (which I think crosses the line), it goes beyond sarcastically telling someone to commit suicide, it goes beyond the way people treat the women on these forums. You say I'm grasping at straws but I have consistently made a coherent and linear argument here to which you reply that I'm grasping at straws. I'll try to spell it out.

People constantly say DIAF but that does not equate to "I'm glad your brother died." It just fucking doesn't and if you miss that then you're a piece of shit.

vaylorie

11-21-2011, 01:31 AM

I'm glad your brother died. I hope he was in a lot of pain when it happened.

Conversational disagreements aside, this pretty fucked up Hasbinbad.

purest

11-21-2011, 01:31 AM

I've never seen one indication from Harrison to suggest that he actually wishes death on anyone

This thread needs videos of hippies being shot, beat, and put in jail.

Mmmmmm

purest

11-21-2011, 01:34 AM

literally word for word right there bro you can shut the fuck up and move on now thanks

Jerry Garcia

11-21-2011, 01:39 AM

literally word for word right there bro you can shut the fuck up and move on now thanks

http://i44.tinypic.com/a9lsfm.jpg

Cyrano

11-21-2011, 01:41 AM

So what? Are you a hippie that was shot, beat, or put in jail? Why do you hate the guy so much? He's an ultra-right winger ex-military dealing with petty anonymous trolls talking trash with reckless abandon. It's not the same as saying you're glad his brother died. You are grasping for straws trying to draw parallels that simply don't exist in order to confirm your obvious hatred for Harrison.

It's fine that you dislike the guy, but it's not fine to make the comment that was thrown his way. It is the foulest thing I've ever seen posted on here and Harrison has never done anything to deserve that comment.

What are you a Westboro Baptist zealot?

purest

11-21-2011, 01:44 AM

lol you are fucking retarded beyond belief

Cyrano

11-21-2011, 01:49 AM

I have no idea who you are but I sincerely hope you die a painful death.

lululalana

11-21-2011, 01:53 AM

Mr. Pimentel considered changing his name to Osama Hussein “to celebrate his heroes.”

lululalana

11-21-2011, 01:56 AM

pro tip: if you tell people on forums to kill themselves daily, then you best be prepared for them to sling similar shit ur way

purest

11-21-2011, 01:58 AM

pro tip: if you tell people on forums to kill themselves daily, then you best be prepared for them to sling similar shit ur way

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 02:06 AM

meaningless
I'm glad you think what happened to those kids is meaningless. It seriously destabilizes your arguments validity since it shows you have an obvious bias to agree with Harrison.
I have no idea who you are but I sincerely hope you die a painful death.
Your arguments already unstable validity ended right there.

you are so out of touch with reality
Coming ... from ... a ... known ... LARPer ... to ... the ... community.

http://i.imgur.com/PcLF1.gif

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 02:07 AM

pro tip: if you tell people on forums to kill themselves daily, then you best be prepared for them to sling similar shit ur way

picodefaggo

11-21-2011, 02:23 AM

irl deaths are taboo but irl obesity is fair game

rnf code of conduct sec 2.1

Diggles

11-21-2011, 02:33 AM

what about fat dead people

like the walker in the well from walking dead

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 03:28 AM

what about fat dead people

like the walker in the well from walking dead
That is OK because it is a fictional character.

Diggles

11-21-2011, 03:37 AM

Coming ... from ... a ... known ... LARPer ... to ... the ... community.

http://i.imgur.com/PcLF1.gif

just letting you know... i am aware

you typed this... like shaere

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 03:39 AM

I was speaking slowly, as if in disbelief.

Also: ty 4 shaere

Diggles

11-21-2011, 03:42 AM

no truce with the shaeredo

Autotune

11-21-2011, 03:51 AM

I'm glad your brother died. I hope he was in a lot of pain when it happened.

one thing to talk about the man, another to talk about his dead brother.

Don't care what kind of point you're trying to make. His brother was cool and you are a piece of shit to "hope" he was in pain.

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 03:52 AM

no truce with the shaeredo
lulz

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 03:53 AM

one thing to talk about the man, another to talk about his dead brother.

Don't care what kind of point you're trying to make. His brother was cool and you are a piece of shit to "hope" he was in pain.
Where were you when he said he was glad those kids got maced, and that he hoped it was painful?

Autotune

11-21-2011, 03:55 AM

Where were you when he said he was glad those kids got maced, and that he hoped it was painful?

I don't care what he said, he's a fuckin idiot and i hope he gets what he wishes on others. Talk shit about him or wish death on him, don't care.

Speaking ill of a dead guy (one who happened to be pretty chill) is pretty fuckin low.

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 03:58 AM

I don't care what he said, he's a fuckin idiot and i hope he gets what he wishes on others. Talk shit about him or wish death on him, don't care.

Speaking ill of a dead guy (one who happened to be pretty chill) is pretty fuckin low.
I don't see it that way. Quid pro quo.

Autotune

11-21-2011, 04:01 AM

I don't see it that way. Quid pro quo.

I might not like you, but i wouldn't wish any of your dying family members to be in pain/more pain. In fact, I dislike harrison more than you and wouldn't wish it on his family members either.

However, I do hope you get what you wish on others.

Diggles

11-21-2011, 04:03 AM

I wish your families suffered a severe case of great life and riches

fucking assholes get what they deserve

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 04:04 AM

I wish your family to get blowjobs from lots of hot women.

Diggles

11-21-2011, 04:06 AM

I wish your family to get blowjobs from lots of hot women.

not sure the feminine side of my family would appreciate that.

Diggles

11-21-2011, 04:07 AM

I wish Hasbinbad grew a pair of tits.

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 04:08 AM

I wish Hasbinbad grew a pair of tits.
You know you're gonna grow tits now..

Diggles

11-21-2011, 04:23 AM

You know you're gonna grow tits now..
Meh, if what the forum says is true I'll never get a girl so WHY NOT MY OWN TITS

MrSparkle001

11-21-2011, 08:38 AM

This thread went down a path it never should have.

Much like some of the extreme Occupiers.

Truth

11-21-2011, 08:48 AM

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7389026n

Aadill

11-21-2011, 01:18 PM

http://peppersprayingcop.tumblr.com/

At least we're having some fun with it, now.

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 01:28 PM

http://peppersprayingcop.tumblr.com/

At least we're having some fun with it, now.
That's awesome.

Cyrano

11-21-2011, 02:25 PM

I apologize for saying what I did. Clearly I don't wish you would die or anything of the sort was just trying to make a point that those types of comments wash over w/o much thought.

I doubt it offended you based on the way you responded but if it did I'm sorry.

Peatree

11-21-2011, 02:25 PM

Heck yeah she's dangerous. This is the old lady that went all psycho in the movie "Legion" right?

Another flea-bagger hippie:

http://i2.crtcdn1.net/shows/countdown/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/KOShow20111116-Rainey-400x300.jpg

Dorli Rainey, 84, was pepper-sprayed by Seattle riot police in full body armor for legally and peacefully protesting legitimate violations of constitutionally guaranteed rights in the United States of America last night.

http://4.asset.soup.io/asset/2546/1716_e667_960.jpeg

Cyrano

11-21-2011, 02:26 PM

That was directed at Purist.

Airdefier

11-21-2011, 02:30 PM

http://peppersprayingcop.tumblr.com/

At least we're having some fun with it, now.

Oh. My. God.

hahahaha

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 02:59 PM

That was directed at Purist.
Nobody cares. Shut your cum dumpster.

picodefaggo

11-21-2011, 05:24 PM

hasbinbad seems a little more edgy than usual has there recently been a surge of 'lulzy' posts on 4chan that inspired him?

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 05:28 PM

I don't frequent 4chan. I wait till teh lulz filter down a level or two. That way I don't have to wade through pictures of naked 13 year olds and posts by disgusting pedos saying MOAR to get my lulz.

picodefaggo

11-21-2011, 05:30 PM

u fat

xshayla701

11-21-2011, 05:43 PM

http://i.imgur.com/ega5j.gif

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 06:11 PM

u fat

Diggles

11-21-2011, 07:38 PM

dady liek

Aadill

11-21-2011, 07:50 PM

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/19/fl-dem-congressman-introduces-pro-occupy-amendment-to-constitution/

hahaha the name owns

Hasbinbad

11-21-2011, 07:56 PM

so bad ass

Aadill

11-21-2011, 08:02 PM

show me what democracy looks like

Akim

11-21-2011, 08:55 PM

show me what democracy looks like

Greece.
A republic is the ideal form of government.
If everyone was really educated or had a backbone we wouldn't be dealing with this tyranny of the ruling class, fuck.
Laugh at occupy all you want, but hear this warning, when they take your internet away, or other things you want, and you go to protest that will be your fate. Or we can push to imprison the police(state thugs) who mace your fellow citizens for gathering, which is our right.
Support occupy, otherwise the police state will grow to outrageous levels (which it already is in some peoples minds.) The European riots will come here, but we have guns and explosives.
Laugh, mock, whatever. But if you support the oppression of your equals that will be you.

Cyrano

11-21-2011, 08:58 PM

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/19/fl-dem-congressman-introduces-pro-occupy-amendment-to-constitution/

hahaha the name owns

I laughed.

Kraftwerk

11-21-2011, 10:10 PM

Greece.
A republic is the ideal form of government.
If everyone was really educated or had a backbone we wouldn't be dealing with this tyranny of the ruling class, fuck.
Laugh at occupy all you want, but hear this warning, when they take your internet away, or other things you want, and you go to protest that will be your fate. Or we can push to imprison the police(state thugs) who mace your fellow citizens for gathering, which is our right.
Support occupy, otherwise the police state will grow to outrageous levels (which it already is in some peoples minds.) The European riots will come here, but we have guns and explosives.
Laugh, mock, whatever. But if you support the oppression of your equals that will be you.

The people who laugh/mock/whatever will start to get their own rude awakening over the next few years. For those of us who are already educated to the state of things globally and here at home in the US, most have already begun protecting themselves for the coming crisis.

An interesting chart - http://xkcd.com/980/huge/#x=-8392&y=-5648&z=3

An interesting fact - in 2009 the Credit Default Swap market (analogous to an individual purchasing insurance on his neighbors home) was valued at $31.5T, current US GDP is $14.5T (which is about to be passed by US Debt, frightening) and current global GDP is $63T.

If you don't find anything completely terrifying in the fact that the market for the most dangerous financial instrument conceived is worth half of global GDP, and that protesting against a current system that promotes that kind of harmful risk taking - aka the growing Occupy protests - is dumb then you've got a world of pain coming your way.

vaylorie

11-21-2011, 11:01 PM

Without a doubt unlawful protest and violence is the only way. There are no peaceable ways to achieve change. Empower the movement brother!

Kraftwerk

11-21-2011, 11:04 PM

Without a doubt unlawful protest and violence is the only way. There are no peaceable ways to achieve change. Empower the movement brother!

You're already thinking about things in the wrong way. The 'laws' that deem what the protesters are doing as 'wrong' are what is infact wrong. If you support the 'laws' of a broken system than you already don't understand what's coming or what's happening. Good luck!

PS - The boston teaparty was against the law, and yet its heralded as a landmark movement in American history, food for thought.

Kraftwerk

11-21-2011, 11:12 PM

Without a doubt unlawful protest and violence is the only way. There are no peaceable ways to achieve change. Empower the movement brother!

Also sidenote, while you're cynical jab of a statement was teeming with sarcasm, it also contained - whether to your knowledge or not - an undertone of truth and a valid argument. Can true change be achieved through peaceable means? I'd argue no, and that true change can only be enacted through escalation. History seems to be presenting us with this truth daily as we're bearing witness to the Arab spring. Tyrannical rule and deprivation of rights was brought down by the violent rebellions in Egypt and Libya. While in America we like to believe in peaceful protest based on our history of civil disobedience against the broken system of segregation, we have another broken system to contend with in the monstrosity that our government has become.

So I do agree with you vaylorie, where peaceful protest fails, only violence, as an unfortunate means to an end, will really bring about the downfall of our current broken system and allowed for a rebirth of what America was actually founded upon.

Pico

11-21-2011, 11:32 PM

i follow every law by the book i have literally no brain

vaylorie

11-21-2011, 11:39 PM

Amen brother. You are right to compare the plight of the American person to the oppression of those in Egypt and Libya. We should live in a world where laws don't exist and each man lives and takes as he sees fit. Fight the good fight my brother!

Pico

11-21-2011, 11:51 PM

ah yes if u question any law then u must be an advocate for a lawless society, bravo sir

http://i.imgur.com/WU6H0.jpg

vaylorie

11-21-2011, 11:56 PM

I agree pico! As I said, we should only follow and abide by the laws that we agree with. The inevitable conclusion of which is each man living and taking as he sees fit in a world in which any law inherently has no value. You guys are on a role tonight! Where can I sign up?

Pico

11-21-2011, 11:58 PM

http://i.imgur.com/ntDDI.jpg

Harrison

11-22-2011, 12:18 AM

More pictures of hippies getting pepper sprayed for breaking the law please.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 12:22 AM

Here is a quick list of people and organizations that officially support what the occupy wall street group is wanting to accomplish...

One quick thought first: 'Show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are'

Hugo Chavez
Government of North Korea
Black Panthers
Iran Revolutionary Guard
Revolutionary Communist Party
Communist Party of China
American Nazi Party
Hezbollah
Communist Party of America
Socailist Party USA
Marxist Student Union
International Socialist Organization
Ayatollah Khamenei
and... Barack Obama (mostly)

You have lots of friends to join the cause brethren.. Keep up the good work!

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 12:23 AM

oh.. and Hasbinbad (sorry I left you out bro)

Pico

11-22-2011, 12:26 AM

list of ppl actively against the occupy movement

hitler (probably)
satan
rosie odonnell
lord shaka kasenzangakhona chief of zulus
wilford brimley

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 12:32 AM

You are right to compare the plight of the American person to the oppression of those in Egypt and Libya. We should live in a world where laws don't exist and each man lives and takes as he sees fit.

Straw man argument -
"To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position."

I have no problem with people dancing around a subject using quick, sarcastic jabs rather than addressing true concerns and issues that are affecting millions of people and will soon be affecting the globe. I'm no anarchist, I'm just a libertarian. If you understand the difference then you'll see that I am in support of a drastic reduction in government. A social contract is necessary, I am just in favor of a change in the current social contract.

The system currently in place rewards the mistakes of the oligarchy based upon their wealth. Red-blue, right wing-left wing, democrat-republican. It doesn't matter which side anyone claims to be on, the problem is with the corruption in our government. And if you're naive enough to think the oppression we face in the United States doesn't exist merely because it goes by a different name than like I said earlier, you just don't understand yet. You'll see it soon though, the crisis is unavoidable. Our government, backed by The Fed, is choosing to take on a socialist agenda by propping up failed banks and financial institutions. The proprietors of these failed banks and financial institutions have positioned themselves into positions of government in the US - Hank Paulson ex Goldman Sachs CEO, former Sec of Treasury for example - and abroad - Mario Draghi ex-managing director of Goldman Sachs International, current Head of European Central Bank - so as to ensure that they are not the ones damaged.

The American middle class is currently and, if we continue on the path our government has set for us, will take the brunt of damage coming our way in the currency devaluation crisis over the next decade or so. Real wealth will vanish for the majority of Americans while those in the highest tiers of wealth and political office will remain safe because they've used our government and the governments of Europe to create a safety net for themselves. I don't agree with that. The system needs to be changed. If protests need to be escalated in order to ensure we return back to our capitalist free market roots, and that the majority, not the extreme and corrupt minority, are protected... then so be it.

Jimes

11-22-2011, 12:34 AM

37 pages of talking. Did the world's problems get solved? Any minds changed?

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 12:41 AM

37 pages of talking. Did the world's problems get solved? Any minds changed?

The world's problems won't be solved, don't kid yourself. If history teaches anything its that those in power will do anything to retain it, and America is progressing down a path of 'dumbification' for lack of an actual word that best describes the population. Americans are being numbed by so many distractions and are choosing to remain ignorant rather than educate themselves on how their government and the globe works. If you were to ask the average American what were the two policies undertaken by The Fed in 2008 in order to prevent (however temporarily) the financial crisis from escalating even further I'd bet you not many would be able to answer. And if they could answer, I bet most wouldn't be able to explain how those policies were meant to prevent a depression and how in actuality the extended use of those tools is only delaying the depression.

Once it becomes impossible to be ignorant then we'll start to see problems changed, until then its just rhetoric and posturing to retain office. Business as usual.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 12:41 AM

Kraftwerk,
Lots of words... to that I say... If you are a libertarian and find value in the OWS goals and methods, I submit that you are no libertarian.

If you actually are a libertarian, good for you and you should identify more with personal responsibility and accountability. These are not traits of OWS. I would agree with most of your thoughts but in the context of this conversation, I can't honestly view OWS as a means to that end.

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 12:43 AM

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 12:56 AM

OWS is against the government bailing out failing banks using taxpayer money. Explain to me how that is not about personal responsibility and accountability?

That's true, that is one of their goals. How about a few other goals from at least a few of the groups?
Equal distribution of income, single-payer health care, increased environmental regulation, student loan debt forgiveness, immigration reform including amnesty for illegals, increased spending in public works, one-year+ freeze on forclosures, etc.

The other problem is that the 'goals' aren't universal and are constantly changing. Any movement that includes the support and backing of the groups I quoted above, and at least a few of the groups are pushing for these things... A Libertarian can support?

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 12:58 AM

of course... depends on the 'type' of libertarian you are... private ownership vs. common ownership, etc...

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 01:39 AM

I support the OWS based on the initial and most prominent point of protest, that being against the government bailouts. I think they are only harmful and delaying the inevitable. I have no problems whatsoever with people being wealthy. I have problems with people abusing the social contract and being rewarded for mistakes, which is what is happening in our financial system right now.

So I guess I would be against equal distribution of income, against single-payer healthcare, against student loan debt forgiveness, against immigration reform, against increased spending in public works and against one year + freeze on forclosures. Environmental regulation is tricky though, while supporting it is pro-big government, being against it is a stance I can't feel comfortable with. At the risk of sounding hypocritical I am leaning more towards stringent regulation to protect the environment even if it constricts business and capitalism.

But as far as student loan debt, health care, forclosures - all of these are risks that individuals took upon themselves. While banks should face consequences for writing bad mortgages, individuals should face consequences for trying to handle something they knew they shouldn't of gotten themselves into to begin with. Responsibility is a two-way street and just because people are being forclosed on their homes, the majority of the time its due to their own lack of forsight in agreeing to terms they knew they couldn't meet.

Aadill

11-22-2011, 03:12 AM

That's true, that is one of their goals. How about a few other goals from at least a few of the groups?
Equal distribution of income, single-payer health care, increased environmental regulation, student loan debt forgiveness, immigration reform including amnesty for illegals, increased spending in public works, one-year+ freeze on forclosures, etc.

Only the idiots are advocating direct redistribution of income. You keep missing the point of everything: The probability of a person in the top 1% (more appropriately the .1% but who the fuck is going to say WE ARE THE 99.9 PERCENT!) of directly wishing to affect government policy with MONEY instead of voting like everyone else significantly increases. Lobbying, in almost all forms, except that of the maintenance and expansion of socialist constructs such as parks roads and waterways, are problematic to some extent. That does lead to increased environmental regulation, or at least I hope. Frankly I think the system is inefficient but there are some systems that should be in place.

Single-payer health care is not a bad idea but does not necessarily work for such a large country. With that said the treatment costs and subsequent treatment costs are related. I'm bothered by the fact that my insurance kept going up every year just as fast as the costs of treatment but my paycheck sure didn't reflect it. I got a job that paid for health insurance.. a fucking HSA. It's bare bones but it fucking staved off a (relatively cheap, $6k) hospital bill.

Student loan forgiveness is retarded. Frankly I don't agree with this one but the beauty is I don't give a fuck about what the guy next to me is protesting. The actual concept of OWS is economic in justice. People buying votes, lobbying for private interests, insurance premiums going up, etc. I was thinking of going back to college but recent state maneuvers is going to leave tuition approximately 30% higher even for state universities next year. I don't blame the need for catchup as those schools have been failing but the previous generation has always said, "oh just get a degree in anything it'll mean the world." This indoctrination has completely fucked up the expectations of current young adults. I think the morons that take on loads of debt to get a degree in African ornithology are retarded but there are people who have followed the rules, jumped through hoops, completed a fuckton of ground work, and end up unemployed 5-10 years down the road because the game changed.

Amnesty for illegals? fuck that. Considering a presidential candidate already passed resolutions for that in his home state. I think there needs to be a little bit more reservation and follow a slightly more nationalist path when it comes to immigration law. This is a new one I haven't heard, at least at the NC occupations.

Increased spending on public works? Probably, as some are absolute shit. It would employ a lot of people and help fix our existing environment, infrastructure, and long-term supplies. With that said I know of a project on a future interstate where they are trying to widen a bridge. In an urban area. It's fucking retarded.

Freezing foreclosures seems to be a hot button issue. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are government backed industries that had to follow government regulations. They collapsed when they realized people were basically going to foreclose anyway. The problem that I have seen has not been the middle class that loses their way-too-expensive homes built during that shit ass fucked up housing bubble, but those of veterans, poor people, and police officers... normal citizens that are not necessarily living above their means or any means but just doing the best they can. I don't give a fuck if the Johnsons down the road can't afford their artificially high priced $600k home, but I do care that the Smiths living in low income housing still can't buck it. It's not about sticking it to the government or banks it's about getting the fucking system right... they aren't helping. There is a difference between an equal society and a healthy society. We're teetering on losing all of that status.

Aadill

11-22-2011, 03:12 AM

Also what Kraftwerk said~

Diggles

11-22-2011, 03:18 AM

Aadill

11-22-2011, 03:19 AM

PS http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204323904577040373463191222.html?m od=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird

What the fuck is this and why is it coherent; how is she the author?

I mean yeah she kinda lied about her fighting her way for ordinary Alaskans, as she totally quit her governor's job in favor of higher paychecks in DC, BUT the words still ring true.

Diggles

11-22-2011, 03:22 AM

Sarah Palin quit her job saying that she wanted to be home with the kids and relax after failing the VP shit, and then went on a national tour to promote her book.

I have no idea what is wrong with that stump sucking piece of shit Wasilla hoe-bag but nothing good can come of it.

purest

11-22-2011, 03:49 AM

vaylorie post history 100% right-wing trolling confirmed neckbeard virgin

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 07:32 AM

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:15 PM

More pictures of hippies getting pepper sprayed for breaking the law please.
I bet this little bitch screamed like a girl right before he died.

http://i.imgur.com/ccJMl.png

That why you so mad?

Peatree

11-22-2011, 12:18 PM

show me what democracy looks like

Moot point. The United State of America is not a democracy. The United States of America is a republic. :eek:

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:20 PM

Moot point. The United State of America is not a democracy. The United States of America is a republic. :eek:
Actually it's not. It's "American Democracy" - a novel form of government which only we have.

Shannacore

11-22-2011, 12:22 PM

I bet this little bitch screamed like a girl right before he died.

http://i.imgur.com/ccJMl.png

That why you so mad?

That's pretty fucked up Hasbin

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:23 PM

Diggles

11-22-2011, 12:23 PM

That's pretty fucked up Hasbin

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:25 PM

That's pretty fucked up Hasbin
Yeah I know. So is this:
I'd have sprayed them too just for making my job more difficult because they're whiny little twats. They're breaking the law, no sympathy for them, none. I hope it hurt like fuck.
More pictures of hippies getting pepper sprayed for breaking the law please.
He has no sympathy for the kids who are fighting riot cops with peace for his and your rights; I have no sympathy for him. He posts that shit, I post this shit. Tit for tat.

If you don't like it, I really don't give a shit.

Diggles

11-22-2011, 12:26 PM

getting sprayed with pepperspray somehow is = to dying?

Shannacore

11-22-2011, 12:27 PM

I think you do give a shit, tbqh ~ ~

Peatree

11-22-2011, 12:28 PM

Actually it's not. It's "American Democracy" - a novel form of government which only we have.

Wrong. To be exact, the United States of America is defined as a federal constitutional republic. It is a constitutional republic and representative democracy, "in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law". The government is regulated by a system of checks and balances defined by the U.S. Constitution, which serves as the country's supreme legal document.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:29 PM

getting sprayed with pepperspray somehow is = to dying?
It's a less lethal weapon. There are a number of ways an unwitting person could in fact die when getting pepper sprayed. This is why it's NOT called a "non-lethal" weapon.

..as far as it being equal..

I don't really care dude. If he is gonna sit there and wish pain on these peaceful protestors, I'm gonna wish pain on his little bitch of a brother who probably killed himself for being family with such total cunts.

Quid pro quo.

He keeps escalating, I will too. Next come the photoshops of his brother sucking cock while he's dead.

Shannacore

11-22-2011, 12:30 PM

Hasbin: Confirmed piece of shit

Peatree

11-22-2011, 12:31 PM

Hasbin: Confirmed piece of shit

You look good in orange. :D

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:32 PM

Wrong. To be exact, the United States of America is defined as a federal constitutional republic. It is a constitutional republic and representative democracy, "in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law". The government is regulated by a system of checks and balances defined by the U.S. Constitution, which serves as the country's supreme legal document.
Those sentences have been condensed in colloquial language to: "American Democracy." If you say "American Democracy" to someone, they will assume that what I meant by that is: "The United States of America is defined as a federal constitutional republic. It is a constitutional republic and representative democracy, "in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law". The government is regulated by a system of checks and balances defined by the U.S. Constitution, which serves as the country's supreme legal document."

In any case, it's not a pure democracy or republic. It is what it is. We have a novel form of government here, whatever you call it.

Diggles

11-22-2011, 12:32 PM

I hope these hippies who are breaking the law and protesting get hit with pepperspray

I hope your brother died painfully and screamed etc etc.

I'M GOING TO BURN YOUR DOCK DOWN

Shannacore

11-22-2011, 12:34 PM

You look good in orange. :D

Thanks! I usually stick to olives and browns for some reason, I don't usually wear bright colors, but I have a few shirts just like that one in a nice teal, and a blood orange red.

'Tis the season for long sleeves!

OngorDrakan

11-22-2011, 12:34 PM

Hasbin: Confirmed piece of shit

Fuckin' A.

Hasbinbad you fucked up posting that shit. That's over the line, even for R&F. Here's to you getting banned!

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:34 PM

Hasbin: Confirmed piece of shit
http://i.imgur.com/SVggx.jpg

Diggles

11-22-2011, 12:38 PM

http://pysih.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/wishyouweredead.jpg

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:38 PM

over the line
Why isn't it over the line when he posts hateful things wishing pain on peaceful, living people protesting and taking consequences from fucking riot cops for his rights, but suddenly it's over the line when I talk about his already dead brother who can't feel anything?

Maybe because your bias is showing? Might wanna have that checked out.

Diggles

11-22-2011, 12:39 PM

Why isn't it over the line when he posts hateful things wishing pain on peaceful, living people protesting and taking consequences from fucking riot cops for his rights, but suddenly it's over the line when I talk about his already dead brother who can't feel anything?

Maybe because your bias is showing? Might wanna have that checked out.

HBB mother duck to a bunch of smelly hippies

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:40 PM

HBB mother duck to a bunch of smelly hippies
Most of the occupy protestors are not hippies, and even of the subgroup of occupy protestors who are hippies, very few of them smell bad.

Peatree

11-22-2011, 12:40 PM

Those sentences have been condensed in colloquial language to: "American Democracy." If you say "American Democracy" to someone, they will assume that what I meant by that is: "The United States of America is defined as a federal constitutional republic. It is a constitutional republic and representative democracy, "in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law". The government is regulated by a system of checks and balances defined by the U.S. Constitution, which serves as the country's supreme legal document."

In any case, it's not a pure democracy or republic. It is what it is. We have a novel form of government here, whatever you call it.

Well OK then, we agree. :eek: Problems do arise though when we all assume that everyone speaks as well as understands "colloquial language" the same way. In my humble opinion, most have no idea what our system actually is nor how it works. If they did, then we would not be where we are today. The government is just as corrupt as the large corporations these days. In fact they are damn near the same thing. Both intertwined too tightly for our system to work effectively. That is one of the many issues that needs to change.

Diggles

11-22-2011, 12:41 PM

I'm sorry, my only encounters with occupy people are dirty beanpole men who smell like weed and 5 day old ramen

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:42 PM

Well OK then, we agree. :eek: Problems do arise though when we all assume that everyone speaks as well as understands "colloquial language" the same way. In my humble opinion, most have no idea what our system actually is nor how it works. If they did, then we would not be where we are today. The government is just as corrupt as the large corporations these days. In fact they are damn near the same thing. Both intertwined too tightly for our system to work effectively. That is one of the many issues that needs to change.
Please read "Manufacturing Consent."

Please study to understand the concept of "Media / Govvernment / Industrial Complex."

Thank you, drive through.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:44 PM

I'm sorry, my only encounters with occupy people are dirty beanpole men who smell like weed and 5 day old ramen
Well if my only experience with your subgroup of peers was with 2 individuals who like to fondle penises, would it be fair of me to then say that your entire group of peers fondles penises?

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 12:45 PM

I'm going to answer for you Diggles. The answer is no. It is a logical fallacy to assume of the general that which the specific embodies.

Secrets

11-22-2011, 12:47 PM

Yeah I know. So is this:

He has no sympathy for the kids who are fighting riot cops with peace for his and your rights; I have no sympathy for him. He posts that shit, I post this shit. Tit for tat.

If you don't like it, I really don't give a shit.

You're forgetting that Harrison's brother died fighting for your ability to live.

That's more than you or I can say.

Yeah, he says bad things about people being pepper sprayed... so what? Did they do anything spectacular in their lifetime? Probably, in their own way, but they didn't put their life on the line for millions and lose it.

Some of them have served, sure, but none of them have died -- not that it makes it any more right or wrong, but how would you like it if I made fun of your dead brother to insult someone as opposed to proving a point through non-insulting means? Sure it might be rants and flames but have some fucking respect.

PS: Fuck you.

Diggles

11-22-2011, 12:48 PM

but im pretty sure all Occupy people do like to fondle penises.

I hope they get penises sprayed in their eyes

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 01:03 PM

You're forgetting that Harrison's brother died fighting for your ability to live.
That is a premise I take issue with. This country hasn't been involved in a self-defense war (fighting for our ability to live) since WW2, and even that logic is questionable, given certain pieces of evidence recently published (do your own research). That he was in the military I do not dispute, but it is trite in the extreme to state that the motivation behind the military is so that I may live. Say rather that this individual fought for "our interests" (oil). He also received money for his "service," (that fact alone makes him a mercenary) knowing full well that death was one outcome. I have no sympathy.
Yeah, he says bad things about people being pepper sprayed... so what?
Yeah, I said bad things about his brother being a sniveling little bitch... so what?
Did they do anything spectacular in their lifetime? Probably, in their own way
What does that have to do with anything? You're placing more intrinsic worth in a mercenary - paid to kill arab people with money we borrowed from asian people - than an average American Citizen willing to stand up for his rights, my rights, your rights? LoL.
but they didn't put their life on the line for millions and lose it.
Again with your false premise. Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Here, watch: Secrets is hot. See?
Some of them have served, sure, but none of them have died -- not that it makes it any more right or wrong, but how would you like it if I made fun of your dead brother to insult someone as opposed to proving a point through non-insulting means?
Why does he get a free pass on making fun of unarmed peaceful children who were brutalized by John Pike and his armed band of thugs? Hypocrisy much?
Sure it might be rants and flames but have some fucking respect.
Show me one thing I should have respect for having to do with Harrison without your blatantly biased, bullshit premises, and I'll consider it. Till then:
PS: Fuck you.
Fuck you.

Secrets

11-22-2011, 01:14 PM

words that seem angry

So he's a hired mercenary now? I know most people don't go into the military to argue about what they've been told, matter of the fact is they do it because if they don't we could be attacked from just about anyone.

Sure, we might be in a state of self-defense, and that is due to our leaders. I won't argue that we need new leaders and people in positions of power, but we should at least fend of the dangers of other states as a result of our idiot leaders' actions.

You think he was happy about putting his life in danger? Do you think the OWS protestors are happy about putting their lives in danger? Neither of you are right, is the point I am trying to make. Don't insult people fighting for their lives and I won't insult you.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 01:17 PM

You think he was happy about putting his life in danger? Do you think the OWS protestors are happy about putting their lives in danger? Neither of you are right, is the point I am trying to make. Don't insult people fighting for their lives and I won't insult you.
OK. I see where you're really coming from. Now jump all over Harrison's ass like you did mine: GO.

Aadill

11-22-2011, 01:17 PM

What does that have to do with anything? You're placing more intrinsic worth in a mercenary - paid to kill arab people with money we borrowed from asian people - than an average American Citizen willing to stand up for his rights, my rights, your rights?

After having a marine scream in my face that I don't know what it takes to kill a man and how I'm going to get a broken nose and skullfucked for not having a job (at 3am on a saturday), I witnessed these words:

"The biggest issue isn't the shit going on here, it's fucking Muslims."

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 01:18 PM

Secrets, the difference between Harrison and I is:

I know that the things I said are fucked up and wrong.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 01:19 PM

After having a marine scream in my face that I don't know what it takes to kill a man and how I'm going to get a broken nose and skullfucked for not having a job (at 3am on a saturday), I witnessed these words:

"The biggest issue isn't the shit going on here, it's fucking Muslims."
These are the "people" who are "fighting for your right to live" Secrets, don't get it all so twisted girl.

Aadill

11-22-2011, 01:21 PM

ironically (fuck you hasbinbad) I was there as a legal observer, not even as a protester.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 01:22 PM

<3 pickles so much. Thank you for doing what you do.

OngorDrakan

11-22-2011, 01:31 PM

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 01:35 PM

Its over the line when you start insulting somebodies dead relative. That's beyond any of your bullshit reasoning.
I honestly care a lot about your opinion.

Diggles

11-22-2011, 01:44 PM

What if a military guy was at an Occupy event or an occupy guy joined the military

Aadill

11-22-2011, 01:46 PM

First we have the pepper spraying cop meme: http://peppersprayingcop.tumblr.com/

But now we have a new one!

It's an tireless internet joke, essentially!

http://gawker.com/5861688/its-a-food-product-essentially-fox-news-starts-spinning-pepper-spray-cops

Megyn Kelly on pepper spray: "It's a food product, essentially!"
Megyn Kelly on fire hoses: "It’s a sports beverage, essentially!"
Megyn Kelly on police dogs: "It’s a family pet, essentially!"
Megyn Kelly on tasers: "It’s static cling, essentially!"
Megyn Kelly on rubber bullets: "It’s a pencil eraser, essentially!"
Megyn Kelly on hand grenades: "It’s a Fourth of July firework, essentially! God bless America."
Megyn Kelly on beanbag rounds: "It's a game of cornhole, essentially!"
Megyn Kelly on nightsticks: "It's an olive branch, essentially!"

Aadill

11-22-2011, 01:47 PM

What if a military guy was at an Occupy event or an occupy guy joined the military

There are veterans as well as recently served individuals doing just that.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 01:50 PM

What if a military guy was at an Occupy event or an occupy guy joined the military
Quite a few vets at occupy actually. My brother is in a VA hospital, so I get to talk to quite a few of them. I had a VA cop try to give me cash to support a fundraiser for the benefit of occupy campers. Plenty of active duty guys who aren't mental gnats support this movement. The thing is: occupy is about them. It's about the riot cops. It's about Harrison. It's about making things better for all of us, whether you agree with the methods or the timing or not. Things are fucked up in this country because ALL OF US have been silent for too long, allowing the erosion of our rights, protections, and of our ability to pursue the things which our constitution guarantees. If you take your head out of your ass - just for a second - you will understand.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 01:54 PM

Aadill

11-22-2011, 01:59 PM

All of the joking aside, if you watch further into that video, even Megyn Kelly calls these tactics into question.

Megyn Kelly.

MEGYN KELLY.

then she discounts them by stating, "I don't necessarily disagree with what the police did," but yeah it was interesting.

Furthermore, just so I don't doublepost: http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-heckled-in-new-hampshire-by-occupy-wall-street-supporters-2011-11

Those that think OWS blindly support Obama are pretty, how you say, clueless.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/392867_10150476963935569_750865568_10844179_166166 1605_n.jpg

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 02:23 PM

The fact that she questioned them at all is surprising.

I think everyone involved agrees that John Pike and his band of thugs may have been technically correct by the word of the law. I also think that anyone with a conscience would say that those actions were morally reprehensible. The fact that Mrs. Kelly even mentioned a moral dilemma says a lot.

Don't police have some standing order about not following immoral or suspect orders? I know it's true for military people.. Nuremberg anyone?

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 02:24 PM

Maybe our resident combat medic could chime in on that subject?

Diggles

11-22-2011, 02:50 PM

I'm not a combat medic, but I play one on Global Agenda

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 02:54 PM

So.. ..a question to you libertarian cunts..

Do you like the roads you drive on? Freeways?

I mean.. We all know traffic sucks, but having the roads in the first place is kind of nice right? Ever try to offroad in a civic?

Fortunately we won't need to discuss the pros and cons of the largest public works system in history of mankind since it'll have crumbled away soon anyways. But for the sake of argument, it was built much like the roads of the Romans as a tool for support of the empire. Had the federal government not used national taxpayer funding to build the intrastate roadways than yes we'd have less freeways and roads, but local and state governments would have built them on a smaller scale as necessary.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 03:09 PM

Fortunately we won't need to discuss the pros and cons of the largest public works system in history of mankind since it'll have crumbled away soon anyways. But for the sake of argument, it was built much like the roads of the Romans as a tool for support of the empire. Had the federal government not used national taxpayer funding to build the intrastate roadways than yes we'd have less freeways and roads, but local and state governments would have built them on a smaller scale as necessary.
You're a tool of support of the empire.

Public works are a good thing. If you don't agree, walk on hiking trails and offroad everywhere. Also, dig a hole every time you need to take a shit.

Yeah.. Thought so.

Aadill

11-22-2011, 03:26 PM

You're a tool of support of the empire.

Public works are a good thing. If you don't agree, walk on hiking trails and offroad everywhere. Also, dig a hole every time you need to take a shit.

Yeah.. Thought so.

Actually that, in some locations, requires a permit as well.

Seriously you have to poop 50 feet away from the nearest road and 150 feet away from water sources, campsites, and trails.

Also it is how I learned about the SCAT machine. Yes, SCAT.

Aadill

11-22-2011, 03:27 PM

I am an Occupant and am therefore a an expert on pooping and pooping related accessories.

Aadill

11-22-2011, 03:28 PM

minus that damn "a" in the middle of that thar set of words.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 03:42 PM

I was just making a general statement of contempt in the general direction of any "libertarians" on this forum.

A group of less forward-thinking, less realistic, and less empathetic people I have never encountered.

If they hate the benefits to society that taxes provide every person so much, then they should shit outside and not use roads. They should tell the police officer trying to stop a mugger from mugging them "thank you, no. please go back to arresting others for marijuana, and leave this mugger to mug me as he wishes." They should tell the fireman spraying water on his burning house to go away.

It's funny that no matter how they profess hate and distrust in any amount of government involvement, they still use the things set up to benefit everyone by a redistribution of wealth.

Aadill

11-22-2011, 03:50 PM

shut the fuck up and acknowledge my poop joke, Hasbinbad.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 03:50 PM

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 03:53 PM

shut the fuck up and acknowledge my poop joke, Hasbinbad.
http://i.imgur.com/osTUD.jpg

Samoht

11-22-2011, 04:01 PM

..and before you give me any of that "state's rights" bullshit, please consider how the very few states were originally organized versus how the many states are now, both demographically and when considering the purpose of each organization.

We are not 13 states with very different goals, confederated in terms of a mutual defense and interest treaty as we were when these things were of paramount importance. In 2011, we are one nation.

That's BS and you know it. People in California/Washington clearly have a different lifestyle from those in Tennessee/Kentucky. Why should they be ruled by laws mandated 2500 miles away by people with no knowledge of their day to day lives or no interest in learning about them?

The goal of politicians is to get richer by fleecing Americans, we can agree to that, yes? So don't even start on how they elect representatives and send them to DC. Without any knowledge of the views of the pollsters in KY/TN, this is purely hypothetical, but why should they get a say in whether or not gay marriage or recreational marijuana is legal in CA/WA?

They shouldn't. Neither should anybody in NY, TX, OH, WI, or FL.

We are more fractal now than we've ever been. There are some intrastate economies that are more powerful than ever (Texas), and some that are crumbling internally (California), so why should we trust someone from Massachusetts to try to fix either one?

valithteezee

11-22-2011, 04:02 PM

Samoht

11-22-2011, 04:05 PM

I'll tell you what. If i was a cop and one of these little bastards grabbed my cap and threw it on the floor I wouldn't hesitate to bludgeon them.

How exactly is bludgeoning justified by something as symbolic as stomping your hat? Where does it hurt or endanger you? It doesn't. Ever heard of appropriate force?

purest

11-22-2011, 04:06 PM

You're forgetting that Harrison's brother died fighting for your ability to live.

lmao fuck no he didn't retard

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 04:06 PM

That's BS and you know it. People in California/Washington clearly have a different lifestyle from those in Tennessee/Kentucky. Why should they be ruled by laws mandated 2500 miles away by people with no knowledge of their day to day lives or no interest in learning about them?

The goal of politicians is to get richer by fleecing Americans, we can agree to that, yes? So don't even start on how they elect representatives and send them to DC. Without any knowledge of the views of the pollsters in KY/TN, this is purely hypothetical, but why should they get a say in whether or not gay marriage or recreational marijuana is legal in CA/WA?

They shouldn't. Neither should anybody in NY, TX, OH, WI, or FL.

We are more fractal now than we've ever been. There are some intrastate economies that are more powerful than ever (Texas), and some that are crumbling internally (California), so why should we trust someone from Massachusetts to try to fix either one?
I mean, I hear you dude, I understand the concept of the free market and how it is supposed to work.

I don't agree that it's OK that people from one state (which may not have the resources or specific leadership of a more prosperous state) to suffer huge losses while another (which probably does have resources and or better specific leadership) benefits.

Get those people who are doing well to do well for everyone. To do otherwise is immoral.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 04:12 PM

On behalf of the police/riot squads using force a lot of these protesting twerps have no fucking respect for them and it sickens me. Why are the men and woman in the blue uniform used as a scapegoat for the movement?

I'll tell you what. If i was a cop and one of these little bastards grabbed my cap and threw it on the floor I wouldn't hesitate to bludgeon them.
You're retarded.

The cops are supposed to protect people. RIOT cops are supposed to protect people from RIOTERS. What happened is that PEACEFUL PROTESTORS were subjected to LESS LETHAL WEAPONS.

There's an essential disconnect that people like you have which is called intentional ignorance, and it does absolutely no good to talk to you, so I'll end here with a rhetorical question for you to chew on:

Where were the RIOT cops when these assholes showed up at that mans funeral?

http://i.imgur.com/mrqW3.jpg

Samoht

11-22-2011, 04:13 PM

Get those people who are doing well to do well for everyone. To do otherwise is immoral.

It's just too big. The likelihood of corruption for anybody in such a powerful position is so overwhelming that there hasn't been a trustworthy person elected to congress/president since I can remember.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. To continue to feed it is immoral.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 04:18 PM

It's just too big. The likelihood of corruption for anybody in such a powerful position is so overwhelming that there hasn't been a trustworthy person elected to congress/president since I can remember.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. To continue to feed it is immoral.
Then we agree on several things.

It's an often (intentionally?) overlooked fact that the original goals and reasons for action of the people who were first dubbed "tea party" are often in direct agreement with what you hear listening to General Assemblies at occupy.

I honestly was all for tea partying before the right winger talk show pundits got their tentacles so firmly entrenched and changed the spirit of the movement.

I see that happening to occupy as well, but on a lesser scale because it seems that the premise in the first place is to oust the entire monster (right and center and left.. all different aspects of the same beast) as opposed to changing from within, which has been set up from the get up to be a great cup shuffle. No meaningful change in policy can be affected from within the current government system.

valithteezee

11-22-2011, 04:21 PM

How exactly is bludgeoning justified by something as symbolic as stomping your hat? Where does it hurt or endanger you? It doesn't. Ever heard of appropriate force?

They're doing their job so you can have a peaceful protest and you fucking rip their hat off and throw it on the ground, and then proceed to STOMP on it?

Are you shitting me?

Should there be no consequence for such actions?

Samoht

11-22-2011, 04:24 PM

No meaningful change in policy can be affected from within the current government system.

Exactly. The people responsible for making those changes are the ones that stand to lose the most.

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 04:25 PM

You're a tool of support of the empire.

Public works are a good thing. If you don't agree, walk on hiking trails and offroad everywhere. Also, dig a hole every time you need to take a shit.

Yeah.. Thought so.

You keep referencing things as black and white and creating straw man arguments to refute points I wasn't even stating, it's as bad as varloye.

Being against a strong central government that abuses taxpayer money as well as creating massive public works rather than states taking it upon themselves definitely means plumbing shouldn't exist anymore.

Here is some information:

I pay a private company for power.
I pay my local municipality for water (plumbing).
I pay a private company for my gas.

Should massive central government public works and federal income tax end, then states and the free market would supply what is demanded.

Also, what libertarians do you know who would support arresting an individual for marijuana use? It's an individuals right and responsibility.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 04:27 PM

Come on guys... the Occupy Wall Street people just love America and want to reform it. They are good people:

http://marianews.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/crapping-on-flag.jpg

Samoht

11-22-2011, 04:27 PM

They're doing their job so you can have a peaceful protest and you fucking rip their hat off and throw it on the ground, and then proceed to STOMP on it?

Are you shitting me?

Should there be no consequence for such actions?

Allow me to remind you who enables the police to even have said job. Without a required presence at said rally, said officer would be at him, on his couch, lazing out next to Harrison. That's unpaid. Instead, he's being gifted potentially hundreds of hours of overtime, and some times hazard pay.

You should be happy that you're so lucky as to have your hat stomped.

That is, of course, unless you're one of the many people that are mentally ill and joined the police force strictly for the possibility of forcing your will on others. In which case, you need more than your hat stomped.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 04:28 PM

Kraftwerk, I finally agree with Hasbinbad... you are a tool...

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 04:28 PM

They're doing their job so you can have a peaceful protest and you fucking rip their hat off and throw it on the ground, and then proceed to STOMP on it?

Are you shitting me?

Should there be no consequence for such actions?
You honestly seem to think the protestors are the ones starting violence..

I feel bad for you.

The truth is out there dude, but you have to look.

The media has a complete blackout of this movement. I know this is true because I see actual disparity between events which I have witnessed first hand and the portrayal of those events by the mainstream media.

In order to find truth, you need to use the internet: this generations greatest tool. On youtube; on the livestreams; on the websites which have transcripts, videos, and audio; most importantly at General Assemblies; you will find truth. You will see that peaceful people have been acted on with violence, disrupting any attempt to remain peaceful and trampling all over the constitution.

You were warned about this.

Read Thomas Jefferson, for fucks sake.

valithteezee

11-22-2011, 04:39 PM

I don't see how your response has anything to do with what I said, nor do I see the pertinence of your funeral example.

I'll try to make it clearer in case I didn't the first time around.

Police are not the enemy of the "movement" and should be treated with respect.

How many times can you grab and pull a dogs tail before you get bit?

You're retarded.

The cops are supposed to protect people. RIOT cops are supposed to protect people from RIOTERS. What happened is that PEACEFUL PROTESTORS were subjected to LESS LETHAL WEAPONS.

There's an essential disconnect that people like you have which is called intentional ignorance, and it does absolutely no good to talk to you, so I'll end here with a rhetorical question for you to chew on:

Where were the RIOT cops when these assholes showed up at that mans funeral?

http://i.imgur.com/mrqW3.jpg

Samoht

11-22-2011, 04:45 PM

Police are not the enemy of the "movement" and should be treated with respect.

Your scenario was symbolic and in no way hurt the officer. There's no justification of bludgeoning here. The term appropriate force would mean that the officer can only respond if he feels endangered. Otherwise, he legally obligated to maintain composure and turn the other cheek. That's how you earn respect. Respect is not owed to you just because you hide behind a badge and a gun.

Also, it looks like it's about time for the government to revitalize blind patriotism by concocting another fake war. Or are the American people smart enough to see through those after 25 years of perpetual conflict?

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 04:46 PM

Kraftwerk, I finally agree with Hasbinbad... you are a tool...
Please don't agree with me. I don't believe in guilt by association, but others may. Kraft makes a bunch of good points, but employs intentional ignorance as a tactic, and accuses me of logical fallacies which do not exist in my reasoning. He has been conditioned to be thus, and it is not all his fault (much like your situation).
You keep referencing things as black and white and creating straw man arguments to refute points I wasn't even stating, it's as bad as varloye.
I don't see it that way. I know it is fallacious to assume of the general what is true from the specific, but in my anecdotal experience, libertarians generally refuse to see the good in a central government public works. I see that as a head-in-the-sand philosophy which is intentionally ignorant of the great things this country has done when funded heavily with taxes.

To promote my side of the argument, I only ask you to do some research on the following points:
What was the income tax rate in 1954?
What meaningful contributions to life, posterity, and the world did the United States make during that period of time?
Being against a strong central government that abuses taxpayer money as well as creating massive public works rather than states taking it upon themselves definitely means plumbing shouldn't exist anymore.
I see your point with the black and white arguments from me, and raise you your own rhetoric (in bold above). If we're going to agree that theoretical ideals are something which can be bantered, at least give me that a central government needs not abuse taxpayer money, but that rather that is what exists in reality based on the silence of the people.

Here is some information:

I pay a private company for power.
I pay my local municipality for water (plumbing).
I pay a private company for my gas.
Those local municipalities and private companies are generally subsidized and you know it. If your particular organization is not, then at least grant that most are. I applaud any effort to be more self-sufficient, especially if that means not using benefits which are available to you because you are not in need, but grant that there are those with legitimate need, and that helping those people become more contributory members of society is a long term goal consistent with good morality. I know you're going to cry black and white, but helping EVERYONE not get the bubonic plague helps YOU not get the plague too. Amirite?
Should massive central government public works and federal income tax end, then states and the free market would supply what is demanded.
That is one possible outcome, but given human history, I have no reason to believe it is probable. What is more likely is that there will be private security forces ensuring that you buy only what they want you to buy either through manipulation at the personal level (if you buy jify pop instead of orville redenbockers, we'll rape your wife), at the storefront level (if you sell jify pop, we'll rape your wife), or at various distribution levels (if you deliver jify pop to the stores, trucks, ships, trains, we'll rape your wife). At the VERY least, control over choice via advertising (don't even think about arguing the power of advertising over "free choice" dude, the evidence in favor is damn near absolute) will be drastically increased.
Also, what libertarians do you know who would support arresting an individual for marijuana use? It's an individuals right and responsibility.
Oh I wasn't saying that Libertarians supported that, I was just saying that you should say "go back to whatever it is that you're doing, and don't worry about me."

Most often, they're out arresting violent marijuana offenders..

valithteezee

11-22-2011, 04:46 PM

You honestly seem to think the protestors are the ones starting violence...

I'm not that naive. I know this situation is not as black and white as the media makes it to be. I actually think the intentions of the movement are spot on. That's not what I'm arguing though :rolleyes:.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 04:49 PM

Police are not the enemy of the "movement" and should be treated with respect.
Well, I agree that they are not the enemy in theory, but the individuals who commit offenses against the constitution for a paycheck are. And those people are owed absolutely no respect. You're intentionally ignoring the fact that police were the original perpetrators of violence in nearly every case (I can't say "every," but I have yet to see a legitimate report of a occupy protestor doing anything to instigate violence without the police having already made overtures).

The people deserve respect too.
How many times can you grab and pull a dogs tail before you get bit?
That's a question you should be asking of the government, industry, the media, and the riot police.

Hypeshot

11-22-2011, 04:52 PM

Please read "Manufacturing Consent."

Please study to understand the concept of "Media / Govvernment / Industrial Complex."

Thank you, drive through.

Chomsky FTW , The movie is pretty awesome too.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 04:58 PM

er, i dunno why that quoted kraftwerk... got tripped up in my copy pastes.. sorry.

Samoht

11-22-2011, 05:00 PM

at various distribution levels (if you deliver jify pop to the stores, trucks, ships, trains, we'll rape your wife).

They already do this and get away with it, though :(

Wish they would let me enjoy my jiffy pop in peace.

Diggles

11-22-2011, 05:00 PM

I liked edgy Hasbinbad more.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 05:03 PM

They already do this and get away with it, though :(
Yes. That's one of the reasons we're out there. (I'm not out there right now coz I'm sick, probably one of the drum circles aoe'd disease cloud)

OngorDrakan

11-22-2011, 05:15 PM

I just got invited to 'OCCUPY MELBOURNE' on facebook. bet that'll be even more ridiculous than boston.

Im inviting you to Occupy Drunke's Pants.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 05:28 PM

Im inviting you to Occupy Drunke's Pants.
I hope you get pepper sprayed in the pants.

Samoht

11-22-2011, 05:38 PM

capsaicin up your urethra = hours of fun

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 05:38 PM

Come on guys... the Occupy Wall Street people just love America and want to reform it. They are good people:

http://marianews.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/crapping-on-flag.jpg
Come on guys... The Occupy Wall Street people just hate America and want to tear it down. They are violent, horrible people:
http://thesecondalarm.com/2011/11/20/pepper-sprayed-student-leads/

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 06:36 PM

Please pity me and my movement because we broke the law and suffered the lawful consequences of our actions.

http://cdn.thegloss.com/files/2011/07/dawson-crying.jpg

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 07:34 PM

Please pity me and my movement because we broke the law and suffered the lawful consequences of our actions.
Just because something is law does not make it just.

It was once (not so long ago) law that black men had 3/5ths the voting rights of white men, and women were not allowed to vote at all.

So what you're saying is:

"Please pity blacks and women because they aren't really people and by voting they are breaking the law, and when they get lynched for it, they are only suffering the lawful consequences for their actions."

Right?

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 07:36 PM

You do know that there are laws against usury? Why do the banks not suffer consequences for breaking the law?

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 08:15 PM

I don't see it that way. I know it is fallacious to assume of the general what is true from the specific, but in my anecdotal experience, libertarians generally refuse to see the good in a central government public works. I see that as a head-in-the-sand philosophy which is intentionally ignorant of the great things this country has done when funded heavily with taxes.

Yes, I am a libertarian. But I will concede I am not a staunch libertarian and I only choose this political alignment because the current state of our government is sickening. The current government spending is profligate and aids the few not the many. I can see the benefits of previous central government spending. I'll even toss out a few that I think aided the greater good and helped reinforce our national identity:

Mt Rushmore, Hoover Dam, National Parks system, Interstate Highway System.

To promote my side of the argument, I only ask you to do some research on the following points:
What was the income tax rate in 1954?
What meaningful contributions to life, posterity, and the world did the United States make during that period of time?

Income tax rate is one thing, and in 1954 the progressive rate scaled pretty high and there were great contributions as a result of central government spending. There is another side to the coin though when analyzing historical statistics. For the sake of argument I'm using 2006 statistics since the tax code hasn't really changed between then and now. Let's take a gander at two stats one being inflation adjusted :

1st - http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5aAsxFJOeMw/R_t1X_DtjII/AAAAAAAAA6w/i7guQF4gmW0/s1600-h/1954-vs-2006-individual-income-taxes-pct-gdp.JPG

2nd - http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5aAsxFJOeMw/R_t1hPDtjJI/AAAAAAAAA64/XRaw4Q3Bxdg/s1600-h/1954-vs-2006-real-individual-income-tax-revenue.JPG

(I tried to post these as an IMG but I fail)

Our tax collection as a % of GDP is unchanged, and (inflation adjusted) we are collecting nearly 5x the taxes we were collecting in 1954. This kind of spending is obscene and needs to be stopped. So we're collecting 500% the taxes (adjusted for inflation) compared to the 1950's. If the 1950's were a period where "...meaningful contributions to life, posterity, and the world..." were made by the US, then now we should be contributing 5 times as much since we're collecting 5 times more money! And yet the insane central government spending has gotten us exactly nowhere.

I see your point with the black and white arguments from me, and raise you your own rhetoric (in bold above). If we're going to agree that theoretical ideals are something which can be bantered, at least give me that a central government needs not abuse taxpayer money, but that rather that is what exists in reality based on the silence of the people.

This I can just completely agree with. If a central government is a necessity to improving standard of living and enabling the best possible social contract than taxpayer money needs to be pointed in the right directions. And since the US Government in 1954 achieved such admirable things with a mere ~20% of our current tax revenue, imagine what a competent government could do if they slashed taxes by half currently. They would still have 2.5x the funds of the US Government in 1954!

Those local municipalities and private companies are generally subsidized and you know it. If your particular organization is not, then at least grant that most are. I applaud any effort to be more self-sufficient, especially if that means not using benefits which are available to you because you are not in need, but grant that there are those with legitimate need, and that helping those people become more contributory members of society is a long term goal consistent with good morality. I know you're going to cry black and white, but helping EVERYONE not get the bubonic plague helps YOU not get the plague too. Amirite?

So let's assume they are subsidized, the US Government as of 2011 will spend $5.87B this year on Energy, and $11.81B on Water. ~$3.67T is the total spending for the US Government this year. So Water/Energy combined comes to 0.4817% of total government spending this year. And that's just broad Water/Energy, I didn't even delve into the specifics to find out how much went where and why. Let's compare that to another government project, currently halted, and see where necessities to life add up on the list of priorities. The F-22 Raptor Project cost us $67.6B. That's nearly 4x Water/Energy combined in 2011, for a shelved military aviation project! Our government is spending things properly...

That is one possible outcome, but given human history, I have no reason to believe it is probable. What is more likely is that there will be private security forces ensuring that you buy only what they want you to buy either through manipulation at the personal level (if you buy jify pop instead of orville redenbockers, we'll rape your wife), at the storefront level (if you sell jify pop, we'll rape your wife), or at various distribution levels (if you deliver jify pop to the stores, trucks, ships, trains, we'll rape your wife). At the VERY least, control over choice via advertising (don't even think about arguing the power of advertising over "free choice" dude, the evidence in favor is damn near absolute) will be drastically increased.

Obviously advertising is powerful, but the consumer does have the ability to 'choose' which product most appealed to them through advertising. I think a retraction in government size and retention of anti-trust policies and regulation don't have to be mutually exclusive. I live in gray areas, I admit that not all my beliefs here are staunchly libertarian, but we've progressed beyond the ability to continue without a social contract including a central government. My belief is that that central government not behave as harmfully and carefree with our money as they have.

If a thief robs you once, you can try to convert his ways to prevent that robbery from occuring again in the future. If a thief robs you again, you're left with the responsibility. That is the situation we're currently in with our government. They've stolen from us to supply failed banks with direct lines of liquidity from The Fed and Treasury Dept. Once they realized they could get away with it, there is nothing to stop them from continuing to do it, except closing the purse. Cutting government funding will result in cutting government spending. The debt bubble has to end before the healing can begin. Let me get down to some brass tacks on USD$ Government spending though to show you how spending has gotten out of control completely and needs to be cut drastically:

All of this is in 2011 USD:

Eisenhower Interstate Highway System, the largest public works project in the history of mankind. Cost to the taxpayer - $465.97B. Less than half a trillion dollars to create jobs and improve our infrastructure.

NEA-estimated cost to bring ALL us schools into good repair. Cost to the taxpayer - $413.3B. Even less than the Highway System!

2011 Military Spending - $703.03B
Outstanding and just pure losses for the taxpayer on the TARP 'investment' into failed banks. This being a completely socialist action going against the capitalist free market in which a failing company should fail, not be rewarded for failing - $186.1B
Interest on Debt 2011 - $198.87B

The combined military and failed bank spending in 2011 alone accounts for nearly $1T. The cost to improve our infrastructure rather than support failed banks and over-extend the United States abroad would not only reduce annual maintenance costs, but also create jobs at home to build and repair our nation.

US Tax Revenue now is too massive and it merely enables the government to spend as if there is no tomorrow, because for the career politicians and the parasitic bankers who've invaded governments around the globe, they don't care if there is one as long as they have their safety net. The only way to stop an addict is cut off his supply.

And as a sarcastic PS - I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee so I'm fine with offroading wherever.

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 08:20 PM

Just because something is law does not make it just.

It was once (not so long ago) law that black men had 3/5ths the voting rights of white men, and women were not allowed to vote at all.

So what you're saying is:

"Please pity blacks and women because they aren't really people and by voting they are breaking the law, and when they get lynched for it, they are only suffering the lawful consequences for their actions."

Right?

It's seriously not worth it. He's made it quite clear that he is in support of the current system. If he supports the current system he's got to believe that what the politicians and elite are doing is "lawful" and "just fine". He'll receive his wake-up call when the realization dawns on him that TPTB will not stop at screwing over his neighbor who is "breaking the law". They will soon take to screwing him as well in their endless crusade of greed shielded by our government.

" First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me."

I suspect that will ring true for him at some point in the future, it will just take him somewhat longer, he's clinging to the comfort of a broken system rather than engaging in protest to change things for the greater good.

Also he is a hypocrit, he said this about 10 pages back :

unlawful protest and violence is the only way. There are no peaceable ways to achieve change.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 08:46 PM

Hasbinbad,
Don't be foolish. Nowhere have I said that all laws that were ever written are to be considered valid. What I will say is that no society can be viable in the long term without the creation and enforcement of laws. This is a universal truth.

I agree that not all laws are just which is why there are mechanisms in place to change and adapt laws as thoughts, cultures and morality experiences changes over time.

Where I part ways from the OWS folks is in the methodology that you implement to effect change in the existing laws. Should everyone be free to follow only the laws that they personally view are just? If I find it morally acceptable to stab you, should the law no longer be enforced? Or, if I find it morally acceptable to drive 100mph in a school zone is it an outrage when I get ticketed?

Is the correct method to enact change to just not abide by laws? I'm a fairly deep rooted conservative and I personally agree with many of the issues that OWS raises (apart from the obvious liberal / redistribution ones) and I believe that OWS could receive mainstream support across Republican and Democrats alike if the approach utilized was inside of the existing processes and a concise message was able to be delivered.

If you actually represent the '99%' (read: mainstream America) and want the movement to be able to actually enact change, then you would change tactics. (slightly) You have had marginal success so far but more and more people can no longer relate based on the methods used. Organize, deliver a clear message, form a 99% party even if that's what it takes, but violence & shanty towns & constant police presence & different viewpoints from each protester is killing your cause.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 08:49 PM

... you said stuff ...

STFU. Thanks.

p.s. re: your quote of mine - http://bit.ly/rw0dSD

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 08:51 PM

Also, for the record... yes, I do agree with the 'current system' of time/place/manner and private property application for Constitutional Right to Assemble / Speech.

Samoht

11-22-2011, 08:52 PM

Obviously advertising is powerful, but the consumer does have the ability to 'choose' which product most appealed to them through advertising.

This is completely untrue. As long as companies are allowed to lie on their advertising, as long as companies can legally price-fix, there is no real choice in consumption. There has to be regulation.

It's this stance that likens Libertarians to Republicans. They're all for personal rights until you try to limit rights of corporations, and then they go ape shit.

Is the correct method to enact change to just not abide by laws?

How exactly do you propose we start the process to limit the amount of laws that our congressmen are allowed to break? Did you know that they're immune to insider trading laws? Should I contact my congressman and tell him that I know and that I think he should change his ways? No, it's legal, and the only way to fix peacefully this is going to be through mass demonstrations. When that fails, violence will ensue. Congress has their chance to step down and stop being piggypiggypiggypiggypiggy greedy. Presently, they're passing on the opportunity, and the sheep such as yourself are just feeding into it deeper.

When the coup comes, the people on the fence will fall on the side of those rising up. Those like you will die like the 1%.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 09:09 PM

Kraft - I'm coming for you. ..later. I'm tired and feeling more sick right now.

Vay - It's called civil disobedience. Maybe you can look it up.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 09:15 PM

Here, I'll make it easier for you:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=civil+disobedience

EnnoiaII

11-22-2011, 09:18 PM

I'm sick of hearing about 'Occupy Wall Street' bullshit every day. Why don't all of you women go occupy the kitchen and make me a sandwich?

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 09:19 PM

Alternatively, they can occupy their mouth. With my balls.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 09:21 PM

Thanks for the link hasbinbad. So we agree, breaking the law, consequences, pepper spray, etc.

Shannacore

11-22-2011, 09:21 PM

Making some grilled chicken wraps tonight, PST.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 09:22 PM

Why don't all of you women go occupy the kitchen and make me a sandwich?
Making some grilled chicken wraps tonight, PST.
*hangs head in shame at society for producing both of these people*

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 09:26 PM

Thanks for the link hasbinbad. So we agree, breaking the law, consequences, pepper spray, etc.
I agree that you're an intellectual gnat not capable of seeing reality.

There were cops at the holocaust too bro. They were just following rules, right? Basically using your logic, jews deserved to get gassed for breaking laws, yeah? And women aren't people and blacks are worth 3/5 of whites?

You can't agree with one and not the other without some seriously pathological cognitive dissonance.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 09:31 PM

Lol. "You disagree with me. You must be a racist nazi." Nice hasbinbad... Nice.

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 09:32 PM

How exactly do you propose we start the process to limit the amount of laws that our congressmen are allowed to break? Did you know that they're immune to insider trading laws? Should I contact my congressman and tell him that I know and that I think he should change his ways? No, it's legal, and the only way to fix peacefully this is going to be through mass demonstrations. When that fails, violence will ensue. Congress has their chance to step down and stop being piggypiggypiggypiggypiggy greedy. Presently, they're passing on the opportunity, and the sheep such as yourself are just feeding into it deeper.

When the coup comes, the people on the fence will fall on the side of those rising up. Those like you will die like the 1%.

That insider trading legality for congressmen made a bit sick. Don't forget the laws that are broken daily by a lack of enforced regulation in our financial markets. The SEC and our government has created some pretty stringent rules, just nothing gets regulated or enforced.

So to sum up Vaylore, when OWS breaks the law it's bad. When banksters and career politicians do, it's okay. Like I said earlier, that guy is not worth anyone's time. He is still talking in terms of Republican/Democrat as if those political parties even matter. I wouldn't want the support of a Republican or Democrat for my cause of changing the way our country works, so why would OWS alter their methods to gain the support of corrupt and inept political parties?

Samoht

11-22-2011, 09:33 PM

Vaylorie says it must be right because it's the law
Hasbinbad cites laws historically proven wrong and deeply flawed
Vaylorie remains naive and resorts to trollolling.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 09:36 PM

so why would OWS alter their methods to gain the support of corrupt and inept political parties?

Maybe because they claim to be a populist movement and about 70% of Americans associate themselves with one of the two parties. Just a thought.

If the goal is to be a pack of retards out protesting for a couple months and then fizzling out with no real change, then mission accomplished. If they want to enact actual change to the system.. just some advice.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 09:40 PM

Vaylorie says it must be right because it's the law
Hasbinbad cites laws historically proven wrong and deeply flawed
Vaylorie remains naive and resorts to trollolling.

Good summation. I will say that I don't think that because it is a law it is inherently 'right' but I do think that laws should be either enforced or changed. Agree to disagree I suppose.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 09:42 PM

So to sum up Vaylore, when OWS breaks the law it's bad. When banksters and career politicians do, it's okay.

Good misrepresentation Kraftwerk. I definitely remember the post in which I said it is okay for politicians to break the law!

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 09:43 PM

Maybe because they claim to be a populist movement and about 70% of Americans associate themselves with one of the two parties. Just a thought.

If the goal is to be a pack of retards out protesting for a couple months and then fizzling out with no real change, then mission accomplished. If they want to enact actual change to the system.. just some advice.

You made this easy and bulletpointed the most important parts of OWS -

Problem #1 - 70% of Americans associate themselves with one of two parties. Hopefully escalating protests will bring this number down so we can get rid of the political parties in their current embodiment and start fresh.

Problem #2 - If they want to enact actual change to the system. Hopefully we don't just enact some superficial changes, I'd much rather see a complete overhaul.

So you're stating OWS should stop doing what they're doing so that the complete and necessary overhaul of the political system, financial systems and methods with which our government operates can be avoided and TPTB can maintain their status quo and go un-altered. I'm glad you're against OWS rather than in support of it.

Samoht

11-22-2011, 09:47 PM

So to sum up Vaylore, when OWS breaks the law it's bad. When banksters and career politicians do, it's okay.

They're not actually breaking the law, though. The system is rigged to favour those in power. They're reaping the rewards. They get away with it because some people are willing to blindly follow since they have a taste of happiness. The reality is, they're addicted to servitude. McDonald's, religion, professional sports, Facebook, they're all examples of what's truly oppressive in this society. You might think that you enjoy participating in the partaking of it, but the reality is, they're all just mechanisms of brainwashing.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 09:47 PM

Lol. "You disagree with me. You must be a racist nazi." Nice hasbinbad... Nice.
I'm just extending your reasoning to other situations. If the OWS protestors are wrong for breaking the law and deserve any lawful consequences they find themselves faced with, then surely the same is true of jews, women, and blacks? Indians? You know it was Ghandi who promoted civil disobedience? You do know who Ghandi was?

I never said you were a nazi or a racist, but if one logically extends your line of reasoning, it follows that the jews, blacks, and women must have been wrong for breaking the law, and deserved any consequences they faced.

Unless of course, you just said all that because you disagree with the OWS movement, and you were feebly grasping at something resembling an argument to back your opinion up? Try that with someone who isn't aware of a little thing called history, k?

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 09:48 PM

Also, if you think these protests are going to fizzle out in a few months with the following coming within 2 years:

- Another United States credit downgrade
- The default of the 8th largest economy in the world (Italy)
- The default of the 12th largest economy in the world (Spain)
- A French credit downgrade
- Germany leaving the Eurozone and Euro currency
- The implosion of the Euro currency

And these things coming in the next 5-10 years :

- Global hyperinflation and wealth devaluation
- Global depression

Than, I am interested in what you've been smoking.

Kraftwerk

11-22-2011, 09:51 PM

I forgot to add another couple things :

- The implosion of the Chinese real estate markets
- The global impact of realization that China is headed for a hard landing and has been inflating statistics for a while

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 09:52 PM

I will say that I don't think that because it is a law it is inherently 'right' but I do think that laws should be either enforced or changed.
Have you heard of the Nuremberg trials? Do you know what the term "Nuremberg Defense" means?

There is no valid mechanism to change laws in any meaningful way from within the system. The laws we have in this society are largely imposed on us by people who have no idea what it is like to live in the conditions we face on a daily basis. On top of that, monied interests, in the form of lobbyists, constantly use their wealth and power to effect changes in laws that benefit their sponsors, and may negatively effect the citizens.

This is what Jefferson warned us about.

"Right and Responsibility," and all that..

Samoht

11-22-2011, 09:55 PM

You do know who Ghandi was?

Old guy, wore diapers, right?

This is what Jefferson warned us about.

Another old guy with a powdered whig, right?

Have you heard of the Nuremberg trials?

Never heard of him, though! Sounds German.

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 09:56 PM

Old guy, wore diapers, right?
Another old guy with a powdered whig, right?
Never heard of him, though! Sounds German.
rofl <3

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 09:57 PM

Kraft, yes some if not all of those will happen. Let me ask this, how is OWS going to change that or 'fix' the situation?

Hasbinbad

11-22-2011, 09:58 PM

Kraft, I will come back to our discussion, but thinking as hard as you push me to causes pain in my current state. I appreciate it, but need to break for a while longer on it.. Just saying this again because you might have thought I forgot about it. I didn't. I'm still able to post to this vay cunt because I really don't even have to think to respond to him.

TTY Tomorrow prolly.

vaylorie

11-22-2011, 09:58 PM

Hasbinbad, you are comparing the genocide of millions of Jews to time/place/manner & private property limitations on assembly & speech?