Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[zelld52]

Yeah but can you use Tail Rake if you have JBB?

[Duik]

Tail rake is only useful when fighting treants ya know to clean up the leaves and bark.

[7thGate]

Indeed! In the case of Ionat:

[44, 54, 64, 74, 84, 94, 104, 115, 125, 135, 145, 155, 165, 176, 186, 196, 206, 216, 226, 237]

In the case of Scourge:

[40, 64, 88, 112, 136, 160, 184, 208, 232, 256, 280, 304, 328, 352, 376, 400, 424, 448, 472, 496, 520, 544]

Both calculations use a percent chance for success, and both calculations use a uniform set of discreet numbers.

Sourge also has 0 as an option, for when you don't proc at all. Ionat's damage does not.

You're also not correctly taking into account the weighting for the probability of landing on each element, which for scourge is computed using the formula BcBrown gave and for Ionat is a complicated, opaque mitigation formula that involves AC being rolled vs. Attack. Your DPS estimate on Ionat also seems to be both ignoring the impact of base attack rate and the impact of AC, but I think that those are errors in opposite directions that are cancelling to a large extent (Ionat probably attacks more than once a second at base, and you've mentioned they hit on the bottom half of the damage interval twice as often as the top).

You could parse either of these to estimate statistical properties of the distributions like average damage done, but its much harder to do with Scourge because its timing depenent, so you're looking at parsing out one specific proc at a location in a fight vs. N attacks over the course of a fight with Ionat. That reduces your sample size considerably leading to greater estimation error and makes it much harder to actually do the parsing code.

We also have the actual formulas for how procs work with Scourge, where the formula is both substantially more complex and substantially less certain for a mitigation roll (its over here https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/834062fbf957c17a5492a1c3628d8af610ef5618/zone/attack.cpp#L913 , but there's damage table and other stuff going on outside this function and to my knowledge noone has done an analysis demonstrating this is unchanged on P99)

Procs though, we know those have a set chance to proc per swing which is set to a % that will lead to an average of 2 procs per minute at max dex. That lets you easily define the binomial distribution for the proc outputs and solve for the various statistical properties like average damage or variance in closed form rather than having to attempt an estimate like you do with attack damage.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sourge also has 0 as an option, for when you don't proc at all. Ionat's damage does not.


Ionat has a 0 option too. The zero option is not hitting with the weapon swing. Both swinging a weapon and procing a weapon have a hit hance. At 1 PPM you will get 1 proc per minute on average. For Hit/Miss you will hit with half of your swing attempts on average.

BcBrown and yourself continue to be incorrect in the idea that you cannot use a Normal Distribution for DoT procs. I am using infinity for all calculations in my JBB example. You cannot simply change one variable to a finite number of swings to lower the DPS of one variable in a set of Normal Distrubution variables.

If you want to use the precise formulas and binomial distributions for all of the variables, I would love to see it!

[Troxx]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/igR5863TALcSk/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952plkpreucpszhebpt958kxwflaobt 2swfkcjcobax&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

Thread has been over for probably a few dozen pages now.

DSM isn’t going to have an epiphany.

Everything that needed to be said has been said.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Bcbrown isn’t going to have an epiphany.

Everything that needed to be said has been said.

Corrected that for you.

[Toxigen]

just checking in from my layover

still going strong i see

hitting the slopes all next week hopefully you beautiful spergs can keep this rolling to page 100

[Troxx]

Which slopes and where? I’ve got more than a half dozen good ski resorts within 2-3 hours drive. The snow was pretty bad early season in CO but we got some nice dumps in the last few weeks and it’s supposed to dump again tonight.

[Duik]

Aww, if yas hookup will the baby be called Troxigen?

[Troxx]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbnk4MG80dHNicXNsNHd3NWFlbnc5bTF 2MTZjZnM3endwazc1ZjUyMSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3oeSAD00YsGzUPTmqA/giphy.gif

[Naethyn]

Min max is an illusion. Fashion is respect.

[Naethyn]

What shaman has highest cha for DI procs?

[fortior]

iksar and barb are tied at 60 cha

[Toxigen]

Which slopes and where? I’ve got more than a half dozen good ski resorts within 2-3 hours drive. The snow was pretty bad early season in CO but we got some nice dumps in the last few weeks and it’s supposed to dump again tonight.

was at sunday river, 10/10 weather, natural snow was a little thin but their snowmaking is fantastic

got a little over 80k vertical in 3 days, no lift lines just rippin it up

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Made a video to debunk the silly claims about slowed mob DPS being too low and Blight, Hammer of the Scourge DPS being too low.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuQID0TkPsQ - logs are in the description.

Worn AC on Shaman: 103 (Banded Armor is 91 worn AC using a full set as reference).
STR on Shaman: 255
DEX on Shaman: 190

Total DPS done to the Shaman: 11.54 DPS on average from a level 50 mob slowed by 70% via Togor's Insects.


"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:13 2024] Eldak Howlingbear kicks YOU for 42",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:13 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 88",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:19 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 88",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:26 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 43",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:33 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 111",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:33 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 88",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:39 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 37",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:53 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 77",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:05 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 42",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:06 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:13 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:13 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:19 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 94",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:26 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 37",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:31 2024] Eldak Howlingbear kicks YOU for 33",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:33 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 49",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:39 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 54",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:39 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:46 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 60",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:53 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 122",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:59 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 83",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:06 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:19 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 54",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:23 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:33 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 100",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:33 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 117",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:39 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 111",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:39 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:46 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:53 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 117",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:00 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:00 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 71",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:06 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 88",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:06 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 66",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:13 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 83",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:20 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 134",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:22 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 71",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:26 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 77",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:31 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 35",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:32 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:39 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 100",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:46 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 134",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:57 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 42",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:59 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 111",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:19:06 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 134",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:19:12 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 43",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:19:23 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:19:26 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 134",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:19:32 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 60",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:21:33 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 83",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:21:40 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:21:46 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:21:59 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU for 36",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:00 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:00 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 54",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:06 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:13 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:13 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 71",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:20 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 71",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:40 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 77",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:40 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 134",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:00 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:06 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 94",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:13 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:20 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:20 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:27 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:44 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU for 42",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:47 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:53 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:10 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU for 39",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:27 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 88",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:33 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:40 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 94",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:47 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 77",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:53 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:25:07 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:25:20 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 100",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:25:20 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:25:27 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 111",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:25:28 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU for 36",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:26:59 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 37",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:12 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 77",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:19 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:25 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 37",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:26 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:32 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 43",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:32 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 134",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:39 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:39 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:46 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 54",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:52 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 54",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:12 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 105",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:19 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:26 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:26 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 60",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:33 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 37",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:43 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 33",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:46 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:59 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 49",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:06 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:06 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:09 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 34",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:13 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 117",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:26 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 54",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:33 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 122",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:39 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:39 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:46 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 83",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:46 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 128",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:59 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 105",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:02 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:08 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:10 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 37",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:10 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 49",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:12 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 66",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:17 2024] Eldak Howlingbear kicks YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:19 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 66",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:25 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 94",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:25 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 49",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:06 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 94",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:12 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:12 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 128",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:27 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:27 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:34 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:36 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 42",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:41 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:41 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:47 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 134",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:32:02 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU for 34",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:32:06 2024] Eldak Howlingbear hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:33:31 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:33:31 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:33:44 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:33:44 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:33:51 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 128",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:33:51 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:33:57 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU for 36",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:18 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 128",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:18 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:23 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU for 40",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:31 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 111",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:38 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 94",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:44 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:49 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU for 39",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:51 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:58 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 49",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:58 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:04 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 66",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:04 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 105",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:11 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 94",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:15 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU for 42",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:38 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:41 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone kicks YOU for 38",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:44 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:51 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 54",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:58 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 105",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:36:04 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:36:07 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone kicks YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:36:11 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:36:24 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 117",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:36:51 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:36:58 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 77",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:37:00 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone kicks YOU for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:37:04 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:37:04 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:37:24 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:37:37 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140",

15508 over 22 Min 24 Sec = 15508 / 1344 seconds = 11.54 DPS


The two giants at the bottom of FM Giant Fort are higher level than PoM Rats, and have a slightly higher damage table too. This means PoM Rats would do a bit less DPS on average, which would be closer to the 10 DPS that was used in my examples previously. Here is a breakdown of expected PoM Rat DPS of 10.44:


Shaman Player Adjustments
=========================
193432 melee attempts, including kick/bash made against Shamwowi according to a few years worth of logs.

86668 hits made against Shamwowi
106764 misses made against Shamwowi
3484 dodges done by Shamwowi

3484 / 193432 = 1.8% chance to dodge.

Ratfink Adjustments
===================
50% double attack chance. https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/97edb09fba533416a81b4caaa0303213d3209aee/zone/attack.cpp#L3730 - Mob double attack formula for EQEMU. Assuming a skill of 200 Riposte, as that is the max for level 50 Warriors.

4% chance to riposte. This was derived in the same manner as the dodge chance above. I looked at how many Ripostes Bazgek did over a few years worth of logs.

Ratfink Weapon Damage Table (Hit Attempt every 2 seconds)
================================================== ==========
[28, 33, 38, 44, 49, 55, 60, 66, 71, 77, 82, 88, 93, 99, 104, 110, 115, 121, 126, 132] = 1591 damage / 20 numbers = 79.55 average damage per hit

Ratfink Kick/Bash Damage Table (Hit Attempt every 8 seconds)
================================================== ==========
[28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37] = 325 damage / 10 numbers = 32.5 average damage per hit

Weapon Damage
=================
79.55 average damage per hit x (30 hit attempts + 15 double attack attempts + 2 riposte attempts) x (0.5 hit rate - [0.018 x 0.5] dodge rate) = 1835.78 damage per minute / 60 seconds = 30.6 DPS

Kick/Bash Damage
=================
32.5 average damage per hit x 7.5 hit attempts x (0.5 hit rate - [0.018 x 0.5] dodge rate) = 120.6 damage / 60 seconds = 2.01 DPS

Final Calculation
=================
32.61 DPS x 0.32 Togor's Insects = 10.44 DPS


Blight, Hammer of the Scourge DPS: 3.23 DoT DPS + 2.9 White Damage DPS = 6.13 DPS on average.


[Thu Feb 15 21:15:08 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:17:55 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:18:12 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:19:32 2024] You gain experience!!

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 2) + (16 - 1) ticks [97 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 440 damage / 264 Seconds = 1.66 DPS

"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:13 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:22 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 59",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:31 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 16",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:48 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:06 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 24",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:14 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 95",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:23 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 97",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:31 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 35",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:39 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 30",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:48 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 85",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:04 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:13 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 73",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:38 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 31",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:46 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 63",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:55 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 44",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:03 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 57",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:12 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 89",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:24 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 25",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:32 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 41",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:40 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 76",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:51 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 38",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:19:16 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 30",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:19:24 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 46",

Scourge White DPS = 1178 damage / 264 Seconds = 4.46 DPS

Total DPS = 6.13 DPS

==========End Fight 1=========================

[Thu Feb 15 21:21:28 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:21:50 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:22:58 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:23:31 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:24:48 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:25:37 2024] You gain experience!!

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 4) + (37 - 1) ticks [227 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 1024 damage / 249 Seconds = 4.11 DPS

"[Thu Feb 15 21:21:41 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 23",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:21:59 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:08 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:16 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:33 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:50 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 21",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:58 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 28",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:06 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 12",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:14 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:39 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:56 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 44",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:13 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 41",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:21 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 88",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:39 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 86",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:48 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 27",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:25:03 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 12",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:25:20 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 32",

Scourge White DPS = 676 damage / 249 Seconds = 2.71 DPS

Total DPS = 6.82 DPS

==========End Fight 2=========================

[Thu Feb 15 21:26:55 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:29:03 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:30:37 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:32:19 2024] You gain experience!!

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 2) + (32 - 1) ticks [196 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 824 damage / 324 Seconds = 2.54 DPS

"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:16 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 53",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:32 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 33",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:58 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 8",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:22 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 54",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:31 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 30",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:39 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 97",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:55 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:03 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 41",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:28 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 27",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:37 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 27",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:10 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 21",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:21 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 21",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:37 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 16",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:46 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 63",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:28 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 25",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:38 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 58",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:46 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:32:10 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 28",

Scourge White DPS = 694 damage / 324 Seconds = 2.14 DPS

Total DPS = 4.68 DPS

==========End Fight 3=========================

[Thu Feb 15 21:33:26 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:33:39 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:34:29 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:35:02 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:36:04 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:36:27 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:36:44 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:37:42 2024] You gain experience!!

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 6) + (40 - 1) ticks [243 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 1176 damage / 256 Seconds = 4.59 DPS

"[Thu Feb 15 21:33:56 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 58",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:12 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 29",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:37 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 78",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:45 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 33",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:54 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 9",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:02 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 94",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:29 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 88",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:38 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 14",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:46 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 43",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:36:00 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 33",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:36:19 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 52",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:37:02 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 57",

Scourge White DPS = 588 damage / 256 Seconds = 2.3 DPS

Total DPS = 6.89 DPS

==========End Fight 4=========================

[1.66, 4.11, 2.54, 4.59] / 4 = 3.23 Total Scourge DoT DPS

[6.13, 6.82, 4.68, 6.89] / 4 = 6.13 Total DPS including white damage

[Troxx]

I’m really confused what you’re trying to accomplish here.

First:

why in the hell would you parse this at 103 worm ac? My shaman is pretty shit geared for a level 60 (magelo below) and has 187 worn ac. 16 of that is shield ac. Why would you bother with a parse that is so ludicrously below the ac expectations of a shaman in this level range? I am genuinely confused.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Jolav

Second:

You cannot assume that just because one mob is level 50 and has a hit range of whatever to whatever and another mob is level 48 and has a lower hit range (min vs max) means that they are directly comparable. Velious is the final expansion where mob ac is notoriously higher and individual mob attack values are sometimes higher. If you are counting on wiki for p99 giving you an actual value of a mobs actual ac …. lol. I bet it is driven only by some algorithm from the players side based on an estimate due to its level. It might be right. It might be really wrong). Disregarding separate zones/expansions we all know that even within classic eq there are mobs that just simply do not follow the rules of whatever expansion they were a part of. I find this confusing because if you want to use PoM rats as an example—- why not just parse the rats themselves? Why try to extrapolate information from a separate mob from a separate expansion?

Circling back to “First” to support my concerns addressed in point 2:

-The level 50 giant did 11.54dps to a shaman with 103 worn ac.
-The rats in question did 10.44dps to your shaman while you were leveling.

Was your shaman naked other than a full set of banded (91ac) and a pair of 6ac/65hp rings when this data was collected? Cause that’s 103 worn ac. I think it is much more safe to assume that your worn ac was considerably higher.

Maybe go parse a rat in PoM witb 103 worn ac?

Actually I’ll go you better and run my shamans ass to FM and parse that giant at 187 worn ac with a 70% slow


… back in a bit I have the day off so I’m gonna go collect data

[Toxigen]

hey look this thread again

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I’m really confused what you’re trying to accomplish here.

First:

why in the hell would you parse this at 103 worm ac? My shaman is pretty shit geared for a level 60 (magelo below) and has 187 worn ac. 16 of that is shield ac. Why would you bother with a parse that is so ludicrously below the ac expectations of a shaman in this level range? I am genuinely confused.


That's easy. You consistently try and move the goalposts whenever the data shows you are wrong. Low AC tests ensure the DPS is not being affected by whatever random AC goalpost number you think is too high. If I put on more AC, I take less damage. Me taking less damage is not helping your argument.


You cannot assume that just because one mob is level 50 and has a hit range of whatever to whatever and another mob is level 48 and has a lower hit range (min vs max) means that they are directly comparable.


I have log evidence of PoM Rats doing less damage, and video/log evidence of the FM Giants under the Fort. You have yet to provide anything to back up this claim that the PoM Rats will do significantly more damage. You are just spouting random opinions right now.


Actually I’ll go you better and run my shamans ass to FM and parse that giant at 187 worn ac with a 70% slow


Yes, please go and actually collect data for once.

[Troxx]

Eldak Howlingbear on 2/16/2024 in 976sec

Jolav
--- DMG: 14 @ 0 sdps (0 dps in 976s) [100%]
--- DMG to PC: 13796 @14dps

It's actually 14.135dps

Lol I don't know what the fuck is wrong with your parses but at 187 worn ac (magelo below) and a continuous 70% togors insects slow (refreshed every 90 seconds or so) Eldak Howlingbear did 14dps over 976 seconds.

Magelo (well above banded armor + 2 6ac 65hp rings):

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Jolav

Methods:

-I pulled it with slow (successful first attempt)
-backed up to a wall before it got to me
-I malo'd it (cause why not)
-I kept it slowed the whole time
-healed as needed
-I did nothing other than 1 epic melee attack at the start. No autoattack. No riposte.


Riddle me this: how on earth with 103 worn ac (55% of my worn ac - and no shield ac since you were hammering) did you clock 11.54 incoming dps? Remember you were also gonna have to deal with ripostes that I never had to.

I went into this test expecting to have a much lower incoming dps than the numbers you posted based off the data provided. I ended up taking 21% more dps than the numbers you provided. I would hope to god that a 15 minute continuous parse was long enough to even out major swings this way or that.

Are you willfully posting inaccurate data or have the gods of the random number generator so universally blessed you over a few short fights and so universally poked my shaman in the ol' brown stinker sufficiently enough to explain this discrepancy.

/boggle

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It's actually 14.135dps

Lol I don't know what the fuck is wrong with your parses but at 187 worn ac (magelo below) and a continuous 70% togors insects slow (refreshed every 90 seconds or so) Eldak Howlingbear did 14dps over 976 seconds.

Magelo (well above banded armor + 2 6ac 65hp rings):

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Jolav

Methods:

-I pulled it with slow (successful first attempt)
-backed up to a wall before it got to me
-I malo'd it (cause why not)
-I kept it slowed the whole time
-healed as needed
-I did nothing other than 1 epic melee attack at the start. No autoattack. No riposte.


Riddle me this: how on earth with 103 worn ac (55% of my worn ac - and no shield ac since you were hammering) did you clock 11.54 incoming dps? Remember you were also gonna have to deal with ripostes that I never had to.

I went into this test expecting to have a much lower incoming dps than the numbers you posted based off the data provided. I ended up taking 21% more dps than the numbers you provided. I would hope to god that a 15 minute continuous parse was long enough to even out major swings this way or that.

Are you willfully posting inaccurate data or have the gods of the random number generator so universally blessed you over a few short fights and so universally poked my shaman in the ol' brown stinker sufficiently enough to explain this discrepancy.

/boggle

You do realize that a single fight can have higher DPS than average, right? That is why I parse more than 1 fight. Also, you have admitted your parser doesn't work in certain scenarios lol.

[Troxx]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Shamwowi

That's your current magelo. If THAT is what you were parsing with that would actually make some sense. THAT magelo has 250 displayed ac (not worn ac) more than I have. If that is the case, that I can understand. If that is what you did though, you have to admit that your gear is NOT what a typical shaman leveling from 55-60 can expect.

Please let me know because if that is indeed what happened I will apologize for accusing you of lying. In that case, me taking 22% more damage would absolutely be expected.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Shamwowi

That's your current magelo. If THAT is what you were parsing with that would actually make some sense. THAT magelo has 250 displayed ac (not worn ac) more than I have. If that is the case, that I can understand. If that is what you did though, you have to admit that your gear is NOT what a typical shaman leveling from 55-60 can expect.

Please let me know because if that is indeed what happened I will apologize for accusing you of lying. In that case, me taking 22% more damage would absolutely be expected.

You can watch my video and see that I am not wearing all of my gear. That is why I said I had 103 worn AC.

[Troxx]

You do realize that a single fight can have higher DPS than average, right? That is why I parse more than 1 fight.

You posted 1344 seconds (22.4 minutes) worth of fighting. I posted 976 seconds worth of fighting (16.2 minutes). Both of these values are sufficiently long that mathematically it is improbable to impossible that a shaman *A with 55% of the total ac of shaman *B can take 22% less damage ... all the while shaman *B has shield ac and shaman *A has no shield ac and is eating riposte damage.

[Troxx]

You can watch my video and see that I am not wearing all of my gear. That is why I said I had 103 worn AC.

Alright sweet ... glad we clarified that.

Congratulations on doctoring your logs. Remind me never to believe one iota of any 'full log' parses you ever provide again.

*Bazinga: I know that any fool can open the raw log file and fuck around with it however they want to. Logs are client side and fully editable.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Alright sweet ... glad we clarified that.

Congratulations on doctoring your logs. Remind me never to believe one iota of any 'full log' parses you ever provide again.

*Bazinga: I know that any fool can open the raw log file and fuck around with it however they want to. Logs are client side and fully editable.

When you can't win with facts and evidence, accuse everybody of lying lol. You do realize you could have doctored your logs/parse too, right? The difference is I have video evidence, which means you can actually double check every single number in my logs by watching the video and comparing the numbers appearing in my chat box if you wanted to. You just posted numbers without logs or videos. That is much easier to doctor. This is why I say providing video + log evidence is better. It is much harder to doctor a video to try and match it to doctored logs.

You posted 1344 seconds (22.4 minutes) worth of fighting. I posted 976 seconds worth of fighting (16.2 minutes). Both of these values are sufficiently long that mathematically it is improbable to impossible that a shaman *A with 55% of the total ac of shaman *B can take 22% less damage ... all the while shaman *B has shield ac and shaman *A has no shield ac and is eating riposte damage.

Let me put it another way. I took a look at the weighted average, based on how many times the mob hit me on the upper half of the damage table vs. the lower half:

Shaman Player Adjustments
=========================
1.8% dodge chance

Eldak Howlingbear Adjustments
===================
50% double attack chance
4% chance to riposte

Eldak Howlingbear Weapon Damage Table (Hit Attempt every 2 seconds)
================================================== ==========
[32, 37, 43, 49, 54, 60, 66, 71, 77, 83, 88, 94, 100, 105, 111, 117, 122, 128, 134, 140]

Eldak Howlingbear Kick/Bash Damage Table (Hit Attempt every 8 seconds)
================================================== ==========
[32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42]

Weapon Damage
=================
30 hit attempts + 15 double attack attempts + 2 riposte attempts per minute = 47 hit attempts

57.2 average damage per hit on lower table 16 hits = 915.2
113.9 average damage per hit on upper table 31 hits = 3530.9
4445.23 damage x (0.5 hit rate - [0.018 x 0.5] dodge rate) = 2182.6 / 60 seconds = 36.38 DPS weighted average

Kick/Bash Damage
=================
7.5 hit attempts

34.5 average damage per hit on the lower table 2.5 hits = 86.25
39.5 average damage per hit on the upper table 5 hits = 197.5

283.75 damage x (0.5 hit rate - [0.018 x 0.5] dodge rate) = 139.32 DPS / 60 = 2.32 DPS weighted average

Final Calculation
=================
38.7 DPS x 0.3 Togor's Insects = 11.61 DPS

The weighted average is taking into account how often your mitigation stats like AC are skewing the damage number towards the higher end of the table.

[bcbrown]

The difference is that DSM is calculating DPS over two mobs, and Troxx is calculating DPS over one mob.

When DSM fights Eldak, 1/4 of the hits are max hits (21/84). When he fights Mentrax, 55% of hits are max hits (31/57).

[Troxx]

Sorry man but there are only 2 plausible explanations:

1) Explanation 1:

-You got extraordinarily lucky ... a best of the best type situation multiple fights in a row that can be expected for less than 1% of your time playing ... over the course of 22 minutes.
-I got extraordinarily UNlucky ... a worst of the worst type situation over a single extended fight > 16.2 minutes with all variables controlled ... a scenario that can be expected less than 1% of a person's time playing.
-This random combination of 1% best case scenario paired with 1% worst case scenario explains how a shaman with 103 worn ac takes 22% less dps with 45% less worn ac all while autoattacking, suffering ripostes, and lacking shield ac. THIS is what explains the discrepancy.
-A chance of a 1% lining up with another 1% chance? (granted i totally made up the 1% value) ... 0.01%

2) Explanation 2:

-You lied.

Again, I ran my shaman to FM to demonstrate that a 187ac worn ac level 60 shaman would take less dps than you were reporting to have received on a 103ac level 60 shaman on the same exact mob when, in both instances, it was permanently 70% slowed.

I guess there is an Explanation 3 which would involve you being so incredibly incompetent that you are incapable of interpreting the data that you honestly collected and honestly tried to interpret?

I will be frank. Of all my criticisms of you I truly never perceived you to be a liar.

Perhaps Explanation 3 is the most plausible.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The difference is that DSM is calculating DPS over two mobs, and Troxx is calculating DPS over one mob.

When DSM fights Eldak, 1/4 of the hits are max hits (21/84). When he fights Mentrax, 55% of hits are max hits (31/57).

Both mobs have identical stats. I only had 2 fights on each mob, which isn't a large sample size. It isn't surprising one mob is a bit different.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sorry man but there are only 2 plausible explanations:

1) Explanation 1:

-You got extraordinarily lucky ... a best of the best type situation multiple fights in a row that can be expected for less than 1% of your time playing ... over the course of 22 minutes.
-I got extraordinarily UNlucky ... a worst of the worst type situation over a single extended fight > 16.2 minutes with all variables controlled ... a scenario that can be expected less than 1% of a person's time playing.
-This random combination of 1% best case scenario paired with 1% worst case scenario explains how a shaman with 103 worn ac takes 22% less dps with 45% less worn ac all while autoattacking, suffering ripostes, and lacking shield ac. THIS is what explains the discrepancy.
-A chance of a 1% lining up with another 1% chance? (granted i totally made up the 1% value) ... 0.01%

2) Explanation 2:

-You lied.

Again, I ran my shaman to FM to demonstrate that a 187ac worn ac level 60 shaman would take less dps than you were reporting to have received on a 103ac level 60 shaman on the same exact mob when, in both instances, it was permanently 70% slowed.

I guess there is an Explanation 3 which would involve you being so incredibly incompetent that you are incapable of interpreting the data that you honestly collected and honestly tried to interpret?

I will be frank. Of all my criticisms of you I truly never perceived you to be a liar.

Perhaps Explanation 3 is the most plausible.

You haven't shown any evidence to suggest I am a liar. You on the other hand have lied multiple times on this forum factually speaking, and it is easy to prove. I am sorry your bad behavior keeps catching up with you. Nobody is going to believe your accusations, especially when you don't have evidence you can back up. You just posted a DPS number without videos or logs.

[Troxx]

The difference is that DSM is calculating DPS over two mobs, and Troxx is calculating DPS over one mob.

When DSM fights Eldak, 1/4 of the hits are max hits (21/84). When he fights Mentrax, 55% of hits are max hits (31/57).

But even THAT does not make sense. That would imply that Mentrax is gonna do more damage than Eldak. I only parsed Eldak. If were were then to infer that Eldak has a lower attack than Mentrax and his data was a compilation of both ... and I were only fighting the weaker ...

Why would my solo fight with the weaker and 45% more ac, no ripostes, and shield ac benefit yields 22% more dps received than his composite of the two.

Sorry.

Lesson learned.

Never trust data DSM parses?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

But even THAT does not make sense. That would imply that Mentrax is gonna do more damage than Eldak. I only parsed Eldak. If were were then to infer that Eldak has a lower attack than Mentrax and his data was a compilation of both ... and I were only fighting the weaker ...

Why would my solo fight with the weaker and 45% more ac, no ripostes, and shield ac benefit yields 22% more dps received than his composite of the two.

Sorry.

Lesson learned.

Never trust data DSM parses?

Again, I have the video + log evidence available lol. You can just double check the video and logs to see if I did something wrong or doctored something. You on the other hand have provided nothing other than a claim the mob did x DPS. I am not sure why you think you have the upper hand here, especially since you are a proven liar and troll on these forums. You have ruined your credibility and now have no credibility to make such nonsensical claims.

[Troxx]

You know what … the will admit there is always plausibility in explanation 1 regarding randomness. On this front I will tentatively give you the benefit of the doubt DSM. If you have not lied, I apologize … and I mean it.

You will find posts from me on these very forums citing the difficulty with defensive parsing. It is a lot more difficult than parsing damage output. My BENCHMARK for parsing the value of ac on live before I quit and came here was measured in hours, not minutes.

You needed 2-3 hours minimum to start to even out the RNG. You needed 10-12 before you had calculable confidence in the results.

My parses here were too short for any level of confidence as were yours.

If you have posted your information honestly, I do legitimately apologize. I ain’t gonna run with one example and paint you as dishonest. Of all my criticisms (communicated openly or otherwise) I have never suspected you of being willfully dishonest in the past.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You know what … the will admit there is always plausibility in explanation 1 regarding randomness. On this front I will tentatively give you the benefit of the doubt DSM. If you have not lied, I apologize … and I mean it.

You will find posts from me on these very forums citing the difficulty with defensive parsing. It is a lot more difficult than parsing damage output. My BENCHMARK for parsing the value of ac on live before I quit and came here was measured in hours, not minutes.

You needed 2-3 hours minimum to start to even out the RNG. You needed 10-12 before you had calculable confidence in the results.

My parses here were too short for any level of confidence as were yours.

If you have posted your information honestly, I do legitimately apologize. I ain’t gonna run with one example and paint you as dishonest. Of all my criticisms (communicated openly or otherwise) I have never suspected you of being willfully dishonest in the past.

I do appreciate the apology. I mean it. For the record, I don't believe you have provided doctored parses either.

You have admitted that your parser doesn't work well in certain situations, which is why I am skeptical your parser specifically, not the data you are posting. If the parser is off you are not a liar, it's just a bug with the software.

[Troxx]

So yes if you posted your data in good faith and honestly, I apologize. I crossed a line. If that is the case, it only demonstrates that neither of us had sufficient time logged or evidence to draw any actual conclusions from any data that was recorded.

I do not like you.

But I apologize for calling you a liar if you were being honest. That is my foul and I’ll own it honestly.

[bcbrown]

[Thu Feb 15 21:15:08 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:17:55 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:19:32 2024] You gain experience!!

[Thu Feb 15 21:26:55 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:29:03 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:32:19 2024] You gain experience!!

first fight is 4:24, second is 5:24, total time is 9:48

~/eq/scourge % grep "Eldak" ShamwowiBlightFMGiants01.txt| grep -E "hits|kicks|bashes" | awk '{print $11}' | ./dps.py
total damage: 8478
~/eq/scourge % bc -l
>>> 9*60+48
588
>>> 8478 / 588
14.41836734693877551020


Against Eldak, DPS is 14.4


[Thu Feb 15 21:21:28 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:21:50 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking
[Thu Feb 15 21:25:37 2024] You gain experience!!

[Thu Feb 15 21:33:26 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:33:39 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:37:42 2024] You gain experience!!


first fight is 4:09, second is 4:16, total is 8:25


~/eq/scourge % grep "Mentrax" ShamwowiBlightFMGiants01.txt| grep -E "hits|kicks|bashes" | awk '{print $11}' | ./dps.py
total damage: 7030
~/eq/scourge % bc -l
>>> 8*60 + 25
505
>>> 7030/505
13.92079207920792079207

DPS against Mentrax is 13.9


#! python3
import sys


def process():
results = []
for line in sys.stdin:
results.append(int(line.strip()))
print("total damage: {0}".format(sum(results)))

if __name__ == '__main__':
process()



Edit: I suspect the discrepancy is because DSM is dividing over the full 22 Min 24 Sec time, forgetting to remove the time spent recovering between fights.

Note that fight 1 ends at 21:19:32 and fight 2 starts at 21:21:28 - about two minutes.

[Troxx]

Edit: I just finished my third beer (2nd since last lengthy post). I’m gonna sober up before talking.

As coherent as I think I am, I am likely certainly less …

[DeathsSilkyMist]

first fight is 4:24, second is 5:24, total time is 9:48



Against Eldak, DPS is 14.4



first fight is 4:09, second is 4:16, total is 8:25


DPS against Mentrax is 13.9


#! python3
import sys


def process():
results = []
for line in sys.stdin:
results.append(int(line.strip()))
print("total damage: {0}".format(sum(results)))

if __name__ == '__main__':
process()



Edit: I suspect the discrepancy is because DSM is dividing over the full 22 Min 24 Sec time, forgetting to remove the time spent recovering between fights.

Note that fight 1 ends at 21:19:32 and fight 2 starts at 21:21:28 - about two minutes.

There was only a few seconds between fights. You can shave them off if you want. The mobs do flee at 20 percent, so the mobs had some DPS loss when root wore off. This is one problem with parsing, you need to decide if you want to include total fight times, or only times where you are being attacked. Both PoM Rats and the two FM Giants run at 20%, so you will need to take into account fleeing one way or another. Either in the average DPS across the whole fight, or after the fight by looking at total damage taken per encounter.

EDIT: So it is possible both Troxx and I are correct. The giants might have closer to 14 DPS, but they spend up to 20% of their time running away, dealing no damage. In my example I tried to re-root them, but JBB likes to break root. 14 x 0.8 = 11.2. Anybody who is soloing is going to capitalize on mobs fleeing so they can save HP. I did the same thing on PoM Rats. You just pull them to an area where no other Rats are, and they will flee at 20%.

[bcbrown]

[Thu Feb 15 21:15:13 2024] Eldak Howlingbear kicks YOU
[Thu Feb 15 21:19:32 2024] Eldak Howlingbear tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Feb 15 21:19:32 2024] You have slain Eldak Howlingbear!
<<<2:01 elapses>>>
[Thu Feb 15 21:21:33 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU
[Thu Feb 15 21:25:28 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 15 21:25:37 2024] You have slain Mentrax Mountainbone!
<<<2:22 elapses>>>
[Thu Feb 15 21:26:59 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU
[Thu Feb 15 21:32:19 2024] Eldak Howlingbear tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Feb 15 21:32:19 2024] You have slain Eldak Howlingbear!
<<<1:12 elapses>>>
[Thu Feb 15 21:33:31 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU
[Thu Feb 15 21:37:37 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 15 21:37:42 2024] You have slain Mentrax Mountainbone!

That's 5:35 time elapsed while recovering that should not be included in DPS estimates.

If we change the fight calculation time to be from first hit by mob until last hit by mob, then:
Fight 1 takes 4:20
Fight 2 takes 3:55
Fight 3 takes 5:20
Fight 4 takes 4:06

Total time fighting is 17:41
total damage is 8478 + 7030 = 15508
Final DPS is 14.6

[DeathsSilkyMist]

[Thu Feb 15 21:15:13 2024] Eldak Howlingbear kicks YOU
[Thu Feb 15 21:19:32 2024] Eldak Howlingbear tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Feb 15 21:19:32 2024] You have slain Eldak Howlingbear!
<<<2:01 elapses>>>
[Thu Feb 15 21:21:33 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU
[Thu Feb 15 21:25:28 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 15 21:25:37 2024] You have slain Mentrax Mountainbone!
<<<2:22 elapses>>>
[Thu Feb 15 21:26:59 2024] Eldak Howlingbear bashes YOU
[Thu Feb 15 21:32:19 2024] Eldak Howlingbear tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Feb 15 21:32:19 2024] You have slain Eldak Howlingbear!
<<<1:12 elapses>>>
[Thu Feb 15 21:33:31 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone bashes YOU
[Thu Feb 15 21:37:37 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone hits YOU for 140 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 15 21:37:42 2024] You have slain Mentrax Mountainbone!

That's 5:35 time elapsed while recovering that should not be included in DPS estimates.

If we change the fight calculation time to be from first hit by mob until last hit by mob, then:
Fight 1 takes 4:20
Fight 2 takes 3:55
Fight 3 takes 5:20
Fight 4 takes 4:06

Total time fighting is 17:41
total damage is 8478 + 7030 = 15508
Final DPS is 14.6

Yeah like I just said in the post above:

It is possible both Troxx and I are correct. The giants might have closer to 14 DPS while they are swinging, but in a real scenario of XPing they spend up to 20% of their time running away, dealing no damage. In my example I tried to re-root them as they were fleeing, but JBB likes to break root. 14 x 0.8 = 11.2. Anybody who is soloing is going to capitalize on mobs fleeing so they can save HP. I did the same thing on PoM Rats. You just pull them to an area where no other Rats are, and they will flee at 20%.

If the mob does 14 DPS for 80% of the fight, and then 0 DPS for 20% of the fight, that still averages out to a lower DPS, because you cannot claim that you took 14 DPS for the time when the mob is fleeing. It lowers the average DPS across the whole fight.

[Troxx]

There have to be more variables than that though. It should not be doing 14dps to 2 separate level 60 shamans with one shaman having 103 raw ac and be swinging a 2 hander (ripostes) and the other having 187 raw ac and not attacking while using a shield.

Unless ripostes do not exist (they do) and all our understandings about ac (raw vs shield) are entirely false .. it is not possible.

Unless there was insufficient data from either of us to draw any meaningful conclusion.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

There have to be more variables than that though. It should not be doing 14dps to 2 separate level 60 shamans with one shaman having 103 raw ac and be swinging a 2 hander (ripostes) and the other having 187 raw ac and not attacking while using a shield.

Unless ripostes do not exist (they do) and all our assumptions about ac (raw vs shield) are entirely .. it is not possible.

Unless there was insufficient data from either of us to draw any meaningful conclusion.

I agree our data size could simply be too small.

As for the 80 AC difference, that honestly does depend on the fight. I need to look at the EQEMU formula again to see how much of a difference that could make. AC basically weights the dice to roll more or less max damage rolls than a pure averaged dice roll.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3674631&postcount=775

If you look at this post, you will see the Giants rolled on the upper half of the damage table twice as often as they rolled on the lower half. So my lower AC did indeed impact how much damage I took. You should take a look at your damage values and see how many went on the lower/upper table. If it's roughly the same, then I guess 80 worn AC just doesn't shift the weights that much in this specific fight.

You basically just need to count how many damage values you got that were using the first ten values of the damage table vs. how many damage values you got that were using the last ten values of the damage table.

[bcbrown]

If the mob does 14 DPS for 80% of the fight, and then 0 DPS for 20% of the fight, that still averages out to a lower DPS, because you cannot claim that you took 14 DPS for the time when the mob is fleeing. It lowers the average DPS across the whole fight.

I understand the point about fleeing mobs while leveling, but you do agree that in the log you posted the giants were doing about 14.6 DPS to you, not 11.5?

There have to be more variables than that though. It should not be doing 14dps to 2 separate level 60 shamans with one shaman having 103 raw ac and be swinging a 2 hander (ripostes) and the other having 187 raw ac and not attacking while using a shield.

Unless ripostes do not exist (they do) and all our understandings about ac (raw vs shield) are entirely false .. it is not possible.

Unless there was insufficient data from either of us to draw any meaningful conclusion.

If you post your raw log, I can take a look, but I bet it will end up being a matter of small sample size. In DSM's log there were two ripostes, and both missed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If you post your raw log, I can take a look, but I bet it will end up being a matter of small sample size. In DSM's log there were two ripostes, and both missed.

I posted the raw logs already in my video description. That is the full log for the video, there was nothing trimmed in that file. You are correct that there are no hit ripostes in the logs, which is why I didn't include them.


I understand the point about fleeing mobs while leveling, but you do agree that in the log you posted the giants were doing about 14.6 DPS to you, not 11.5?


It depends on what context you are referring to. If you want to say they do ~14 DPS while attacking, and ~11.5 DPS over the entire fight when taking into account fleeing, then sure. As I said before, I think we were both correct. Yourself and Troxx simply aren't taking into account fleeing, which needs to be taken into account. In a 4 minute fight if you deal 14 DPS 80% of the fight and then 0 DPS for 20% of the fight, that is: 192 seconds x 14 DPS = 2688 damage / 240 seconds = ~11.2 DPS.

[Troxx]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3674652&postcount=52


We all know that regen is the best choice for a class that converts hp to mana and more efficiently converts that mana back to HP.

Agreed.


Lol i actually took a screenshot of that! The original post before you can retro-edit it!

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Regen is the best choice for any class that converts hp to mana and can turn mana into hp. If I’m not mistake … that’s also a shaman!

I win!

Saving all of the above for posterity! Thank for finally agreeing!

Checkmate!

#winning

[DeathsSilkyMist]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3674652&postcount=52



Lol i actually took a screenshot of that! The original post before you can retro-edit it!

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Regen is the best choice for any class that converts hp to mana and can turn mana into hp. If I’m not mistake … that’s also a shaman!

I win!

Saving all of the above for posterity! Thank for finally agreeing!

Checkmate!

#winning

First: wrong thread.

Second: The thread is about Necromancers, not Shamans. FSI is better on Shamans because they get Torpor, and Necromancers do not.

[Troxx]

No no no…

No takesies backsies!

:p

TALLY HO!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No no no…

No takesies backsies!

:p

TALLY HO!

There is no taking back anything. You are simply grasping for straws, as usual. If I wanted to specify Shamans, I would have specified Shamans. The thread in question is about Necromancers. That is what I was referring to.

[bcbrown]

It depends on what context you are referring to.

Maybe I can rephrase the question. In your four fights against mountain giants that you posted earlier, what do you calculate the DPS value to be, and over what time frame is it calculated?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Maybe I can rephrase the question. In your four fights against mountain giants that you posted earlier, what do you calculate the DPS value to be, and over what time frame is it calculated?

I already gave you the answer. Continuing to do this kind of posting doesn't help your position at all.

By the way, do you concede that you were wrong about the Scourge DoT Damage? Clearly it's higher than your prediction, and overall Blight, Hammer of the Scourge is doing well above 2.2 DPS total.

[bcbrown]

You're including about 5 minutes of time spent canniing and torporing without combat in your DPS calculation, and if you don't see the problem with that, so be it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're including about 5 minutes of time spent canniing and torporing without combat in your DPS calculation, and if you don't see the problem with that, so be it.

Putting words in my mouth and not reading what I've said before is just nonsensical. Please stop. Clearly you need to read my posts again lol.

Do you concede about the Scourge DoT Proc Damage by the way?

[Toxigen]

dsm gonna macequest someone irl

[Troxx]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3674662&postcount=794

Thread is over now.

https://i.imgflip.com/4x1pgd.gif

[DeathsSilkyMist]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3674662&postcount=794

Thread is over now.



As usual, you resort to trolling when you cannot win via logoc and facts.

[Troxx]

Maybe you should just FD.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Maybe you should just FD.

Sure! /con the mob and you can tell if your FD failed or not. That works every time.

[Troxx]

Your retort has fallen to the ground…

Try again!

https://media2.giphy.com/media/29HRejgahYenVsohB5/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952dmzxww2lhujnmq8imdy81a3ap6wsk yulkegs3ab7&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Thanks for conceding via trolling. Happens like clockwork. When you can't win a debate, you obfuscate via trolling.

[Troxx]

Seriously check the logs on your monk over 52 levels and see how many times you neglected to notice that message.

Jesus fucking christ in a handbasket

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Seriously check the logs on your monk over 52 levels and see how many times you neglected to notice that message.

Jesus fucking christ in a handbasket

You still don't realize /con works just as well, but somehow think the only way you can check if FD fails is via that message. You can also /con when you get up if the mob has faction dubious or above, for example. You can check if it's still threatening when you stand up.

It's better to make a habit of using /con.

[Troxx]

Seriously check the logs on your monk over 52 levels and see how many times you neglected to notice that message.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You still don't realize /con works just as well, but somehow think the only way you can check if FD fails is via that message. You can also /con when you get up if the mob has faction dubious or above, for example. You can check if it's still threatening when you stand up.

It's better to make a habit of using /con.

[Troxx]

Have you checked your monks logs yet?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Have you checked your monks logs yet?

No, and honestly it doesn't matter. It's very possible my UI chat filters are putting that message in one of the places that gets flooded with text, like hits/misses. I played my SK for many years before I made my Monk, and I only got 69 of those messages on my SK. I know how to use FD via /con, which is more reliable anyway.

Unlike yourself, I don't claim to know everything, and I am pleased to learn new things! I've never needed the message to tell me FD failed, so it isn't going to improve my play in any way.

[Penish]

dsm getting madder n badder each passin day

[Keebz]

Unlike yourself, I don't claim to know everything, and I am pleased to learn new things!

Except for math apparently.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sadly posters keep resorting to trolling and insults when they cannot win a debate with facts and logic. It is very telling that they know they cannot win when they do this.

[Penish]

dsm is an unhinged pyschopath, happy Saturday folks

[DeathsSilkyMist]

dsm is an unhinged pyschopath, happy Saturday folks

Nonsensical and delusional insults are irrelevant.

As a reminder, be wary when playing with Penish in game. He will purposely waste your time by grouping with you under false pretenses. He will record video of you in an attempt to make you look bad, and then leave the group abruptly. https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3652957&postcount=23 - You can read this thread and see hard evidence of this.

He doesn't have the courage to post these videos, because he knows it will just show two things:
1. He shows that he doesn't know how the game works. He records video of people using normal strategies and assumes they are bad play.
2. He shows that he is indeed grouping with people under false pretenses. His true purpose is trying to record videos of people playing poorly.

[Penish]

dsm camps to 4 mobs in KC as hes getting his shit pushed in and proceeds to develop his own mechanic of "cycling aggro" to make up for what a shit can he is, what a fuckin mook

[Troxx]

Except for math apparently.

Sick burn.

Hats off the bcbrown for trying. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone be so patient. His conduct was that of a gentleman and a scholar.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sick burn.

Hats off the bcbrown for trying. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone be so patient. His conduct was that of a gentleman and a scholar.

He still hasn't admitted his Scourge DoT DPS calculations were wrong, even after I showed him in game evidence of Blight Hammer doing 3.23 DoT DPS on average, and 6.13 DPS total including white damage.

He is unable to admit when he is wrong, just like yourself. I have admitted when I've made a mistake multiple times by contrast.

A scholar and a gentleman does not troll other posters and refuse to admit when they are wrong. I hope Bcbrown can learn from his mistakes and become better from this. I hope the same for you too, but it has yet to happen.

[Penish]

pretty sure this guy's ability to learn stopped around his adolescent years

[Troxx]

Have you checked your monks logs yet?


Hey did you check your monks logs yet?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Hey did you check your monks logs yet?

As you can see, Troxx cannot win arguments on merit. Thank you for conceding your previous point.

As for me not knowing about the FD message, it is fun to learn something new, but /con is still more reliable than checking for the massage.

Troxx is so mad about losing debates he has to put his location as "Sands of DSM's Vagina", and quoting a mistake I made so he can feel better about himself.

It is sad to see, but when people do this they signal to others they are a troll who will attack anybody who disagrees with them. It doesn't hurt me, or help them.

At least Troxx is making it easy for the community to see he is just a troll, which helps I guess.

[Duik]

The "community" does not seem to see things as you do Captain Edit Posts.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The "community" does not seem to see things as you do Captain Edit Posts.

A small minority of trolls like yourself and Troxx are not the community. Sorry you think otherwise.

[Ripqozko]

DSM is the spokesman for kittens, join at your own risk

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM is the spokesman for kittens, join at your own risk

As usual, he just repeats the same nonsense over and over. It continues to be ignored too. Why waste your time with this?

You have proven time and again you are just trolling and saying random nonsense. You have no credibility.

[Ripqozko]

As usual, he just repeats the same nonsense over and over. It continues to be ignored too. Why waste your time with this?

You have proven time and again you are just trolling and saying random nonsense. You have no credibility.

Join kittens and you can be guilded with this guy

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Join kittens and you can be guilded with this guy

I'm curious to see what his next nonsense comments will be. He randomly swaps between these nonsense comments when he gets bored of one. None of them stick due to lack of creativity.

[bcbrown]

He still hasn't admitted his Scourge DoT DPS calculations were wrong, even after I showed him in game evidence of Blight Hammer doing 3.23 DoT DPS on average, and 6.13 DPS total including white damage.

He is unable to admit when he is wrong, just like yourself. I have admitted when I've made a mistake multiple times by contrast.

Can you admit that when you calculated DPS from the mountain giants:

Total DPS done to the Shaman: 11.54 DPS on average from a level 50 mob slowed by 70% via Togor's Insects.
15508 over 22 Min 24 Sec = 15508 / 1344 seconds = 11.54 DPS


that you made a miscalculation? That the 22:24 time elapsed you used included about 4-5 minutes of canni/torpor, and that the true DPS value shown in the log and video is about 14, not 11 DPS?

9feb247e02f3a33469c5231fbff2be50

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Can you admit that when you calculated DPS from the mountain giants:


that you made a miscalculation? That the 22:24 time elapsed you used included about 4-5 minutes of canni/torpor, and that the true DPS value shown in the log and video is about 14, not 11 DPS?

9feb247e02f3a33469c5231fbff2be50

You need to go back and read my previous posts instead of asking the same question over and over again. It is a strange habit of yours. I've already addressed this. Perhaps read more carefully next time?

Now, how about that Scourge DoT DPS calculation you keep forgetting to admit you were wrong about?

[bcbrown]

If you can clearly acknowledge miscalculating the mountain giant DPS, we can talk about the scourge DPS.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If you can clearly acknowledge miscalculating the mountain giant DPS, we can talk about the scourge DPS.

I already did. There is no reason to keep asking the question. It is clear you are dodging the scourge DoT DPS conversation at this point.

Scourge DPS was 3.23 from the DoT and 2.9 DPS from the white damage. Your idea the average DPS would be lower than 2.2 is false in all respects.


[Thu Feb 15 21:15:08 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:17:55 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:18:12 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:19:32 2024] You gain experience!!

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 2) + (16 - 1) ticks [97 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 440 damage / 264 Seconds = 1.66 DPS

"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:13 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:22 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 59",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:31 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 16",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:15:48 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:06 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 24",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:14 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 95",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:23 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 97",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:31 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 35",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:39 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 30",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:16:48 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 85",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:04 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:13 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 73",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:38 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 31",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:46 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 63",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:17:55 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 44",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:03 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 57",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:12 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 89",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:24 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 25",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:32 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 41",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:40 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 76",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:18:51 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 38",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:19:16 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 30",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:19:24 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 46",

Scourge White DPS = 1178 damage / 264 Seconds = 4.46 DPS

Total DPS = 6.13 DPS

==========End Fight 1=========================

[Thu Feb 15 21:21:28 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:21:50 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:22:58 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:23:31 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:24:48 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:25:37 2024] You gain experience!!

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 4) + (37 - 1) ticks [227 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 1024 damage / 249 Seconds = 4.11 DPS

"[Thu Feb 15 21:21:41 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 23",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:21:59 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:08 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:16 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:33 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:50 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 21",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:22:58 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 28",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:06 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 12",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:14 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 32",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:39 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:23:56 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 44",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:13 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 41",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:21 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 88",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:39 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 86",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:24:48 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 27",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:25:03 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 12",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:25:20 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 32",

Scourge White DPS = 676 damage / 249 Seconds = 2.71 DPS

Total DPS = 6.82 DPS

==========End Fight 2=========================

[Thu Feb 15 21:26:55 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:29:03 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:30:37 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:32:19 2024] You gain experience!!

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 2) + (32 - 1) ticks [196 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 824 damage / 324 Seconds = 2.54 DPS

"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:16 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 53",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:32 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 33",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:27:58 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 8",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:22 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 54",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:31 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 30",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:39 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 97",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:28:55 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:03 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 41",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:28 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 27",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:29:37 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 27",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:10 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 21",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:21 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 21",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:37 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 16",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:30:46 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 63",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:28 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 25",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:38 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 58",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:31:46 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 46",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:32:10 2024] You crush Eldak Howlingbear for 28",

Scourge White DPS = 694 damage / 324 Seconds = 2.14 DPS

Total DPS = 4.68 DPS

==========End Fight 3=========================

[Thu Feb 15 21:33:26 2024] Auto attack on.
[Thu Feb 15 21:33:39 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:34:29 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:35:02 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:36:04 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:36:27 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:36:44 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:37:42 2024] You gain experience!!

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 6) + (40 - 1) ticks [243 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 1176 damage / 256 Seconds = 4.59 DPS

"[Thu Feb 15 21:33:56 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 58",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:12 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 29",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:37 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 78",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:45 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 33",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:34:54 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 9",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:02 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 94",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:29 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 88",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:38 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 14",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:35:46 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 43",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:36:00 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 33",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:36:19 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 52",
"[Thu Feb 15 21:37:02 2024] You crush Mentrax Mountainbone for 57",

Scourge White DPS = 588 damage / 256 Seconds = 2.3 DPS

Total DPS = 6.89 DPS

==========End Fight 4=========================

[1.66, 4.11, 2.54, 4.59] / 4 = 3.23 Total Scourge DoT DPS

[6.13, 6.82, 4.68, 6.89] / 4 = 6.13 Total DPS including white damage

[bcbrown]

Ok, I accept that you acknowledge the miscalculation.

Let's talk about about scourge DPS. Can you explain why you think I made a mistake?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ok, I accept that you acknowledge the miscalculation.

Let's talk about about scourge DPS. Can you explain why you think I made a mistake?

Easy. Your assumption the DoT damage would be lower was wrong. The data I provided shows it. These were individual fights with finite swings too.

[bcbrown]

Blight, Hammer of the Scourge DPS: 3.23 DoT DPS


This is the evidence that my scourge DPS calculations was wrong?

Please forgive me for going through this methodically, step by step. I just want to make sure I understand.

Note: I do not contest the accuracy of your proc DPS in this logs; I haven't looked closely at them, but I'm happy to accept them at face value.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This is the evidence that my scourge DPS calculations was wrong?

Please forgive me for going through this methodically, step by step. I just want to make sure I understand.

Note: I do not contest the accuracy of your proc DPS in this logs; I haven't looked closely at them, but I'm happy to accept them at face value.

You were very adamant that Blight, Hammer of the Scourge couldn't even output 2.2 DPS, and I've shown an output of 6 DPS. We spent at least 20 pages on it, after you claimed your own insistence on the DPS was irrelevant.

You're assumption here https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3672206&postcount=659 that the DoT would only do 0.75 DPS over a longer fight like 132 seconds was also wrong according to the data.

[bcbrown]

Now, now, you've shown proc damage of 3.23 DPS. We neither discussed nor calculated white damage.

But I take the point. So you are saying that I claimed 0.75 DPS over 132 seconds, and your evidence disproving my argument is logs from four fights, each of about 4 minutes long, showing proc damage of about 3.23 DPS?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Now, now, you've shown proc damage of 3.23 DPS. We neither discussed nor calculated white damage.

I mentioned white damage many times lol, you just continued to stubbornly ignore it because you wanted Blight, Hammer of the Scourge's damage to be lowered down from 2.2 so the Rooting Shaman would get an edge. Please don't try to deny this. You can check the post history.

We cannot continue until you acknowledge this.

[bcbrown]

I never once made any claims or comments about white damage, to the best of my recollection. I'm trying to acknowledge an error in my calculations, but if you want to leave it here, that's fine by me.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I never once made any claims or comments about white damage, to the best of my recollection. I'm trying to acknowledge an error in my calculations, but if you want to leave it here, that's fine by me.

Remember how you started the debate?

You're still using 2.2DPS for the scourge proc when it should be 0.75DPS.

You wouldn't have bothered to do this if you were taking into account white damage. This is because you would know that the white damage would still put the hammers DPS back to 2.2 at least, which means your attempt to lower Blight, Hammer of the Scourge's DPS was irrelevant anyway. There was no reason to start the conversation other than trying to lower the DPS of the JBB Shaman to give the Rooting Shaman an edge.

Also remember when you said your own quibbling over the dps was utterly irrelevant? You'd forgotten that you started this debate in the first place.

he's [DeathsSilkyMist] in an all-out fight over whether his Scourge proc does 2.2DPS or 0.75DPS while spamming JBB. Utterly irrelevant.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Just to put the final nail in the coffin, here is the proc DPS when broken up into 132 second fights, just so you cannot try to claim the fight length difference is the reason for why your calculation is still correct:

132 second fights
-------------------------------------------

[Thu Feb 15 21:15:08 2024] Auto attack on.

Scourge DoT DPS = 0

Fight 1 ends at [Thu Feb 15 21:17:20 2024]

==============================================

[Thu Feb 15 21:17:55 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:18:12 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 2) + (16 - 1) ticks [97 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 440 damage / 132 Seconds = 3.33 DPS

Fight 2 ends at [Thu Feb 15 21:19:32 2024]

==============================================

Scourge DoT DPS = 0

Fight 3 ends at [Thu Feb 15 21:21:44 2024]

==============================================

[Thu Feb 15 21:21:50 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:22:58 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:23:31 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 3) + (21 - 1) ticks [126 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 600 damage / 132 Seconds = 4.54 DPS

Fight 4 ends at [Thu Feb 15 21:23:56 2024]

==============================================

[Thu Feb 15 21:24:48 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 1) + (13 - 1) ticks [80 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 328 damage / 132 Seconds = 2.48 DPS

Fight 5 ends at [Thu Feb 15 21:26:08 2024]

==============================================

Scourge DoT DPS = 0

Fight 6 ends at [Thu Feb 15 21:28:20 2024]

==============================================

[Thu Feb 15 21:29:03 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 1) + (14 - 1) ticks [89 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 352 damage / 132 Seconds = 2.66 DPS

Fight 7 ends at [Thu Feb 15 21:30:32 2024]

==============================================

[Thu Feb 15 21:30:37 2024] Eldak Howlingbear sweats and shivers, looking feverish.

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 1) + (21 - 1) ticks [127 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 520 damage / 132 Seconds = 3.93 DPS

Fight 8 ends at [Thu Feb 15 21:32:44 2024]

==============================================

[Thu Feb 15 21:33:39 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:34:29 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 2) + (12 - 1) ticks [77 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 344 damage / 132 Seconds = 2.6 DPS

Fight 9 ends at [Thu Feb 15 21:34:56 2024]

==============================================

[Thu Feb 15 21:35:02 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:36:04 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:36:27 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.
[Thu Feb 15 21:36:44 2024] Mentrax Mountainbone sweats and shivers, looking feverish.

Scourge DoT DPS = (40 DD x 4) + (21 - 1) ticks [126 sec] x 24 DoT Damage = 640 damage / 132 Seconds = 4.84 DPS

Fight 10 ends at [Thu Feb 15 21:37:08 2024]

==============================================

Average DPS over 10 fights = [0, 3.33, 0, 4.54, 2.48, 0, 2.66, 3.93, 2.6, 4.84] = 24.38 / 10 = 2.4 DPS on average per fight, which is close to what I calculated originally at 2.2 DPS per fight. This isn't including white damage, this is just the average DoT DPS.

You should acknowledge that you were incorrect in your original estimation of 0.75 DPS per 132 second fight, as posited here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3672206&postcount=659 .

[7thGate]

I also don't remember any discussion of white damage. All of the interesting discussion has been around the proc damage.

There's some impact due to fight length and different dex assumptions being made. The difference between a 132 and 260 second fight is significant for a DoT dps. This isn't enough though, and there doesn't seem to be an unusual amount of procs or timing that would explain the discrepancy.

Reveiwing the python, I think the prior_probability is actually the no prior probability. I'm also not entirely sure how the proc chance itself is incorporated in here, the code calculates the damage on a successful proc per swing. I assume this needed to be multipled by 0.1175 to get the actual expected damage output? I'm not 100% sure that's correct, I might need to think on that more.

I would probably want to calculate this by doing a recusive implementation that just checks all the branching cases to figure out what the damage done in each possible proc result is and multiply by the chance that sequence happens. I'm kind of curious now, I might try that and see what I get.

[bcbrown]

Buddy, I'm trying to acknowledge that I made a miscalculation, and you're trying to pick a fight with me.

Work with me here.

7thGate noticed the error. I'll send you some more of the code I've toyed around with over DM.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Buddy, I'm trying to acknowledge that I made a miscalculation, and you're trying to pick a fight with me.

Work with me here.

7thGate noticed the error.

You are the one who picked a fight with me, and spent 20 pages quibbling over 1.5 DPS or so. You have also trolled me in the past (which you admitted to). This makes it difficult to determine when you are trolling or not. Just acknowledge your error and move on. Do you disagree with the findings here? https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3675028&postcount=844

[bcbrown]

I would probably want to calculate this by doing a recusive implementation that just checks all the branching cases to figure out what the damage done in each possible proc result is and multiply by the chance that sequence happens. I'm kind of curious now, I might try that and see what I get.

I got this to work in the 132 second case, but the 4 minute case locked up my computer - too much recursion I think.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I got this to work in the 132 second case, but the 4 minute case locked up my computer - too much recursion I think.

You don't need to do that. The Normal Distribution I've shown you multiple times works just fine:

At 190 DEX, I am getting (190 / 170) x 0.5 = ~1.62 PPM x (7.5 swings / 12.76 swings) = ~0.95 Procs Per Minute. This is close enough to 1 Proc Per Minute, and if you proc more than once per fight, you get 40 extra DD damage per proc.

The Scourge DoT Damage Table is as follows: [40, 64, 88, 112, 136, 160, 184, 208, 232, 256, 280, 304, 328, 352, 376, 400, 424, 448, 472, 496, 520, 544] = 6424 damage / 22 numbers = 292 average damage / 132 seconds = 2.2 DPS roughly speaking. We can do this because the Shaman is getting 1 Proc Per Minute on average. This means across an infinite number of fights, you will proc the weapon roughly 66 seconds into a 132 second fight on average.

This math is supported by the data here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3675028&postcount=844

[bcbrown]

The only reason I came back to this thread was because I realized I made a miscalculation.

9feb247e02f3a33469c5231fbff2be50


% echo if you can admit that you miscalculated mountain giant dps, i can admit I made a mistake when calculating dps for the 132 second scourge proc | md5
9feb247e02f3a33469c5231fbff2be50


My python code for calculating proc dps was erroneous. I spent some time this afternoon fiddling with it, but was unable to come up with a solution I was confident in. I retract my 0.75 DPS figure for a 132 second fight.

I do not retract my calculation for an 18 second fight, and I do not accept your calculations as correct.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The only reason I came back to this thread was because I realized I made a miscalculation.





My python code for calculating proc dps was erroneous. I spent some time this afternoon fiddling with it, but was unable to come up with a solution I was confident in. I retract my 0.75 DPS figure for a 132 second fight.

I do not retract my calculation for an 18 second fight, and I do not accept your calculations as correct.

Thank you for admitting you made a mistake in your calculations.

You can not accept it all you want, but the data supports my math thus far, and you don't have an alternative you are willing to provide.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I do not retract my calculation for an 18 second fight

I am going to hold you to this then.

Your 18 second fight calculation is here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3672206&postcount=659

The expected DPS was 26.29 damage / 18 seconds = 1.46 DPS, and the calculations look correct when taking into account the minor rounding you were doing.

When looking at the same problem using a Normal Distribution:

At 1 PPM you have: 1 PPM x (60 seconds / 18 seconds) = 0.333 PPM when taking into account the fight does not last a full minute.

Scourge DoT Damage table over 18 seconds: [40, 64, 88, 112] = 304 damage / 4 damage numbers = 76 average damage x 0.333 PPM = 25.308 adjusted average damage / 18 seconds = 1.406 DPS

If we use your percent chances to proc the weapon a second time [0.097, 0.097, 0.097, 0.011] = 0.302 / 4 = 0.0755 x 40 DD Damage = 3 damage. If we add the 3 damage to the 76 damage we got above, we now get:

79 average damage x 0.333 PPM = 26.31 damage / 18 seconds = 1.46 DPS

Thank you for agreeing with me that the Normal Distribution method is good enough to approximate average DPS. My guess is you realized this too, which is why you refuse to post your math.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

There is another way you could put this:

A. https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3672206&postcount=659 - Bcbrown's 18 second fight calculation he is not retracting.

B. https://wiki.project1999.com/Scourge - DoT we are procing via https://wiki.project1999.com/Blight,_Hammer_of_the_Scourge .

Binomial Distribution for 1 weapon proc:
=========================

1. There are four possible damage values for an 18 second fight: [40, 64, 88, 112].

2. The average of the four possible damage values is 40 + 64 + 88 +112 = 304 / 4 = 76.

3. The chance for each damage value to occur is 0.0835 according to Bcbrown's post linked above.

4. 0.0835 x 4 damage values = 0.334.

5. 76 x 0.334 = 25.384 / 18 = 1.41 DPS.

Normal Distribution for 1 weapon proc:
=========================

1. There are four possible damage values for an 18 second fight: [40, 64, 88, 112].

2. The average of the four possible damage values is 40 + 64 + 88 +112 = 304 / 4 = 76.

3. Assuming the player has 1 PPM due to their DEX value, you have 1 PPM x (60 seconds / 18 seconds) = 0.334 PPM

4. 76 x 0.334 = 25.384 / 18 = 1.41 DPS.

Conclusion:
=======

The results are exactly the same. Bcbrown was incorrect in his assumption that you cannot use a Normal Distribution for DoT weapon procs.

[Penish]

^total fuckin retard, although I mean DSM is doing pretty good for 3rd grade mathematics

[DeathsSilkyMist]

^total fuckin retard, although I mean DSM is doing pretty good for 3rd grade mathematics

Nonsensical and delusional insults are irrelevant.

As a reminder, be wary when playing with Penish in game. He will purposely waste your time by grouping with you under false pretenses. He will record video of you in an attempt to make you look bad, and then leave the group abruptly. https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3652957&postcount=23 - You can read this thread and see hard evidence of this.

He doesn't have the courage to post these videos, because he knows it will just show two things:
1. He shows that he doesn't know how the game works. He records video of people using normal strategies and assumes they are bad play.
2. He shows that he is indeed grouping with people under false pretenses. His true purpose is trying to record videos of people playing poorly.

[Toxigen]

ChatDSM activated.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

ChatDSM activated.

You mean ChatPenish activated. Corrected that for you. Penish has been spamming threads with the same exact nonsense messages for a while now. There is no need for me to respond to his nonsense if he stops posting it.

[Troxx]

#triggered

[DeathsSilkyMist]

#triggered

I am not sure why you get so triggered over facts about the game. It's ok to admit you are wrong sometimes. You don't have to keep pretending you know everything. You don't have to keep trolling to make yourself feel better.

You are clearly triggered to the point that you have to put "The sands of DSM's Vagina" as your location, and put a piece of game knowledge I did not know about in your signature. These are the only victories you can claim it seems, and neither are actual victories. They are meager trophies that embarrass yourself more than anybody else. I am all to happy to learn new things about the game and admit when I am wrong, unlike yourself.

[fortior]

why do you talk like an anime villain

They are meager trophies that embarrass yourself more than anybody else

[branamil]

Because his only interaction with other people is through video games. Kinda sad if you think about it

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Because his only interaction with other people is through video games. Kinda sad if you think about it

Your idea of interacting with other people is to troll them, lie about them, and insult them. Doesn't sound very social to me lol. I am not sure why you think you look good here. Please don't spam other threads just because you lost a debate in a thread elsewhere.

[Duik]

Looks like we all got schooled boys. Time to whimper away quietly.

All shaman are le good. Barb. Ogre. Iks. Troll.
Also, is is it Shaman = singular Shaman?
Shamen = multiple shaman?

[branamil]

Your idea of interacting with other people is to troll them, lie about them, and insult them. Doesn't sound very social to me lol. I am not sure why you think you look good here. Please don't spam other threads just because you lost a debate in a thread elsewhere.

We've never had a "debate". lol. You must have me confused with someone else.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

We've never had a "debate". lol. You must have me confused with someone else.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428440&page=2

I agree it wasn't much of a debate. You were just insulting, trolling, and lying basically the entire time. Again, not very social. But please, continue to pretend you are social lol.

[Troxx]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/QWqH7oRfHwVKwb8YDL/200.gif?cid=790b7611s8byt7d4cgnsb9oq57a94xm1ka8gxo 109pqnlm31&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.gif&ct=g

[branamil]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428440&page=2

I agree it wasn't much of a debate. You were just insulting, trolling, and lying basically the entire time. Again, not very social. But please, continue to pretend you are social lol.

So... you think we "debated", but then you say we really didn't. I guess I'm disturbed but not surprised, sadly, that you keep files on people. You're kind of reminding me of this guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY) now. You know stalking people is a reportable offense, in addition to just being plain weird. You might be a little too obsessed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So... you think we "debated", but then you say we really didn't. I guess I'm disturbed but not surprised, sadly, that you keep files on people. You're kind of reminding me of this guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY) now. You know stalking people is a reportable offense, in addition to just being plain weird. You might be a little too obsessed.

You do realize that you are the one who posted off-topic in this thread just to insult me, correct? I never did that to you in any thread. You can check my post history.

All of your posts in this thread are off-topic, and 3/4 of them are specifically targeted at me.

This is clearly projection. Please stop stalking me on these forums so you can simply post off-topic insults about me. I agree with you that your behavior is strange to say the least.

[Toxigen]

I wanna see DSM drunk.

[Troxx]

My little brother is autistic. I got him drunk a few years ago. He was hilarious 2 drinks in. 5 drinks in his neonazi tendencies came out and he ended up spear tackling me over a disagreement on the superiority of white genetics.

Fun times

[zelld52]

did he really say with confidence that there is no fail message for FD?

How can i take literally anything he said seriously now?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

did he really say with confidence that there is no fail message for FD?

How can i take literally anything he said seriously now?

Lol I know right? If someone gets one thing wrong, they are clearly damned forever.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3674571&postcount=6 - I admitted to not knowing about the message. This is because I've only gotten 70 "fallen to the ground" messages out of 3221 FD attempts. I simply never noticed the message on the rare occasions they came up. I learned how to check for FD failures without it, and I don't remember being in a situation where I didn't know if FD failed or not. /con works just fine for determining if FD failed or not.

[Troxx]

Did you check your monks logs yet?

I’m curious how many hundreds of times you failed to notice it on a 52 monk.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Did you check your monks logs yet?

I’m curious how many hundreds of times you failed to notice it on a 52 monk.

This is an AI response post that has been answered multiple times. Sadly Troxx cannot even troll in an amusing way.

[Duik]

The game is worked out. DSM is trolling our trolling of him of us.

Erwin, Kick Abu if RV or so cervical missING row needs.

There is a collection of swipe typing (swyping?) words as a sentence.
I believe that is case closed. /close thread.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The game is worked out. DSM is trolling our trolling of him of us.

Erwin, Kick Abu if RV or so cervical missING row needs.

There is a collection of swipe typing (swyping?) words as a sentence.
I believe that is case closed. /close thread.

People can discuss how the game works. There's nothing wrong with that, and that is the very purpose of this section of the forums!

I am asking the trolls to stop trolling people for discussing the game as intended in the proper section. If you want to troll, Rants and Flames exists.

It's silly to simply claim that because other people have potentially worked out how the game works, there is no reason to ask questions or discuss.

[Duik]

You are the one with a troll for an avatar. Therefore you have no credibility. You are the ultimate troll. Literally and avatarilly speaking.
Im just helping you learn. I have faith in you. You can learn to resist feeding the trolls!
Be strong my son. Or not.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You are the one with a troll for an avatar. Therefore you have no credibility. You are the ultimate troll. Literally and avatarilly speaking.
Im just helping you learn. I have faith in you. You can learn to resist feeding the trolls!
Be strong my son. Or not.

My avatar is an Ogre. Flimsy attempt at trolling, as usual.

[Troxx]

Lol are we now accusing people of AI?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Lol are we now accusing people of AI?

Talk to your fellow trolls about it.

[Duik]

I just mentioned the responses were AI like. As in the responses remind me of how an AI would resond to queues fed to it.
AI, I believe would have given up resonding by learning it could not teach us anything more. Cuz ya know, we seem to be too fick in da head.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I just mentioned the responses were AI like. As in the responses remind me of how an AI would resond to queues fed to it.
AI, I believe would have given up resonding by learning it could not teach us anything more. Cuz ya know, we seem to be too fick in da head.

Ironically posts from yourself and other trolls are more AI-like, as they just repeat the same nonsense over and over. Sadly you can't even come up with something interesting.

[Duik]

Ok!

[zelld52]

Wait so is Iksar Shaman going to solo as well despite not having JBB? I feel like 89 pages in we didn't get a clear answer.

[Naethyn]

Ya dude jbb is only good for a few levels and regen is forever.

[Tann]

Wait so is Iksar Shaman going to solo as well despite not having JBB? I feel like 89 pages in we didn't get a clear answer.

To answer this question first requires studying into the nature of man itself, what it means to be a lizard, 44 pages of nonsense, why does pp smell after eating asparagus, and the remaining pages focusing on the question no one asked: FSI vs regen.

[Toxigen]

Ya dude jbb is only good for a few levels and regen is forever.

As is PD robe fashion.

[Toxigen]

Ironically posts from yourself and other trolls are more AI-like, as they just repeat the same nonsense over and over. Sadly you can't even come up with something interesting.

pot, meet kettle

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Wait so is Iksar Shaman going to solo as well despite not having JBB? I feel like 89 pages in we didn't get a clear answer.

As far as I know, nobody claimed Iksar Shamans cannot solo well. Using a JBB is simply superior to root rotting when you don't have access to an Epic. Sadly Iksar's don't have access to JBB. Torpor also significantly reduces the efficacy of racial regen, as you will be at 100% health more often. It is also only improving your Torpor regen by 2%. This is why FSI ends up being better than racial regen from a Min/Max perspective.

[Troxx]

https://wwwcache.wralsportsfan.com/asset/voices/2020/10/16/19340239/here_we_go_again-DMID1-5ojhw3qms-460x368.gif

[Troxx]

Wait so is Iksar Shaman going to solo as well despite not having JBB? I feel like 89 pages in we didn't get a clear answer.

Yes an iksar shaman will solo well without a JBB. JBB gives a potent leveling advantage for a brief window starting at the level you can click it and falling off sharply by your early 50s when it starts to fall off.

It’s a neat toy to play around with but is not hugely game-changing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yes an iksar shaman will solo well without a JBB. JBB gives a potent leveling advantage for a brief window starting at the level you can click it and falling off sharply by your early 50s when it starts to fall off.

It’s a neat toy to play around with but is not hugely game-changing.

This has been disproven. JBB is superior to root rotting all the way to 60 when you don't have access to Epic. Please ignore Troxx's continued attempts to refuse to admit when he is wrong.

[Naethyn]

Wait I thought JBB started at 45?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Wait I thought JBB started at 45?

Indeed! Levels 45-60. JBB can take you all the way to 60 once you hit 45. It has generally been a given that JBB is clickable at 45, but clarification is always nice for people who don't want to read the entire thread.

[Troxx]

This has been disproven. JBB is superior to root rotting all the way to 60 when you don't have access to Epic. Please ignore Troxx's continued attempts to refuse to admit when he is wrong.

None of this is NOT true:

Yes an iksar shaman will solo well without a JBB. JBB gives a potent leveling advantage for a brief window starting at the level you can click it and falling off sharply by your early 50s when it starts to fall off.

The leveling advantage 45-51 is not deniable. It is there, and it is real. The only point of contention is to what degree a JBB may or may not slow down (or break even or whatever) leveling from 52-60. "Superior" or "inferior" aside ... an iksar shaman will be just fucking fine without a JBB. Napkin math considered and personal preferences aside you are looking at a relative efficiency of +/- 2-8% in a best vs worst case scenario.

My impression: a mouth-breather or less-skilled player will find success spamming JBB. A more talented player can pass that break-even point from 52 onward and actually end up ahead without a 10-15k "toy". We can agree to disagree on this point but ...

If the OP wants to be an iksar ... THEY SHOULD BE AN IKSAR. JBB is not worth crying a damn river or filtering through 80 pages of napkin math for. It doesn't make or break anything.

Quit being obtuse.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

A more talented player can pass that break-even point from 52 onward and actually end up ahead without a 10-15k "toy". We can agree to disagree on this point but ...


You haven't done anything to show this. The math disagrees thus far too. Please stop making stuff up and providing false information. JBB is superior as a leveling tool all the way to 60 when you don't have Epic, even for a skilled player.


If the OP wants to be an iksar ... THEY SHOULD BE AN IKSAR.


Indeed. Nobody claimed otherwise. This doesn't change facts about JBB.

[Troxx]

blah blah blah

an iksar shaman will be just fine without a JBB.

Real shamans did levels 1-50 without it.

Skilled players don't need it 51-60.

Sorry you suck?

Edit: good night my sweet prince. I have to go to sleep now because I am a gainfully employed adult.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

an iksar shaman will be just fine without a JBB.


Indeed, nobody claimed otherwise.


Skilled players don't need it 51-60.


You have no evidence to suggest that a skilled player can beat JBB math-wise. Thus far it is the superior leveling tool from 45-60 while you do not have access to Epic.

Your idea that "skilled" players do not need it is simply a fantasy right now. You are just trying to boost your own ego, as you didn't use your JBB all the way to 60.


Sorry you suck?

Your baseless opinions on other people's skill levels are irrelevant.

[Lament Icarus]

Hi hello I’ve leveled four shamans to 60 in my time playing P99. I’ve also accomplished a good portion of the Solo Artist Challenge on several toons.

Blue - Troll Shaman (no JBB or Epic)
Blue - Barb Shaman (JBB, no Epic)
Green - Iksar Shaman (no JBB, Epic)
Green - Ogre Shaman (JBB, Epic)

JBB felt very useful from 45-52 or so. I saw a drastic drop off in use on both the Barb and Ogre as I gained in levels beyond that. It still had occasional use at 55+ and very marginal use at 60, but it was mostly a neat toy at best.

Regen has felt useful to me at all levels. I really quite like it at 60 with Regrowth effects and Aura of Battle, it feels really substantial when solo farming or soloing hard content. FSI has felt mostly useless in all content, really only showing its value in soloing hard content and even then rarely. I’d say in terms of practical application and certainly in how it feels to play any of the characters, Regen > FSI (stuns are annoying, they don’t inhibit your ability to kill a hard target).

Epic is far superior to JBB in my opinion, and certainly if you have a Fungi. I would always pick Epic for leveling, and considering Epic has broad and far reaching use at 60, and JBB has at best marginal use, I’d say JBB is more of a fantastic leveling item than anything else.

The character I’ve accomplished the most on is the Iksar Shaman. I’ve achieved a huge number of solo artist challenge content on him, and I personally love the look.

All in all, play what you want to look at for hundreds if not thousands of hours. None of the racial bonuses will change your gameplay substantially. I’m partial to regen and I’ve found it the most impactful in feel. Others will argue differently, and that’s okay.

Edit: You need none of the tools to level to 60. Yeah, it’s a bit slower. Leveling is where you build the fundamentals, don’t let an item skip them all for you. Leveling with JBB is mathematically faster. Epic is likely on par, Epic with fungi I believe outpaces JBB with Fungi (hard to test this and honestly who the fuck cares). Pick what’s fun, enjoy the game. You can do it all on any race.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Hi hello I’ve leveled four shamans to 60 in my time playing P99. I’ve also accomplished a good portion of the Solo Artist Challenge on several toons.

Blue - Troll Shaman (no JBB or Epic)
Blue - Barb Shaman (JBB, no Epic)
Green - Iksar Shaman (no JBB, Epic)
Green - Ogre Shaman (JBB, Epic)


Hello! Thanks for the post! That's awesome you've leveled so many Shamans.


JBB felt very useful from 45-52 or so. I saw a drastic drop off in use on both the Barb and Ogre as I gained in levels beyond that. It still had occasional use at 55+ and very marginal use at 60, but it was mostly a neat toy at best.


I leveled from 45-60 with JBB, and it was faster than Root Rotting. Mathematically this is also the case, as I showed earlier in this thread. I am curious as to why people have this feeling of drop-off in the early 50s. My only guess is people just don't have a good enough feel for how to use JBB for leveling. There isn't a lot of reference for how to level via JBB, so perhaps that is the culprit.


Regen has felt useful to me at all levels. I really quite like it at 60 with Regrowth effects and Aura of Battle, it feels really substantial when solo farming or soloing hard content. FSI has felt mostly useless in all content, really only showing its value in soloing hard content and even then rarely. I’d say in terms of practical application and certainly in how it feels to play any of the characters, Regen > FSI (stuns are annoying, they don’t inhibit your ability to kill a hard target).


Regen is useful at all levels. But you can math out precisely how much of a bonus it gives you. Sadly with Torpor, Racial Regen just falls off sharply, because you can get back to full HP in 3 minutes or less. Most fights aren't long enough for Racial Regen to save even one Torpor. Racial Regen basically needs a 12 minute fight to give you 1 Torpor back, which is only 30 seconds of recovery time saved per fight. At 60 you generally don't need that small boost to recovery time, as you are fighting big targets with long respawn timers. You aren't fighting waves of easy mobs on a Shaman at 60 as often.

Both FSI and Regen are small bonuses once you hit 60. FSI is simply better due to Regen falling off due to Torpor.


Epic is far superior to JBB in my opinion, and certainly if you have a Fungi. I would always pick Epic for leveling, and considering Epic has broad and far reaching use at 60, and JBB has at best marginal use, I’d say JBB is more of a fantastic leveling item than anything else.


Indeed. Epic is better for leveling, assuming you can consistently root rot 3+ mobs. If you are fighting 1-2 mobs per cycle, JBB is still going to be faster.


All in all, play what you want to look at for hundreds if not thousands of hours. None of the racial bonuses will change your gameplay substantially. I’m partial to regen and I’ve found it the most impactful in feel. Others will argue differently, and that’s okay.

Edit: You need none of the tools to level to 60. Yeah, it’s a bit slower. Leveling is where you build the fundamentals, don’t let an item skip them all for you. Leveling with JBB is mathematically faster. Epic is likely on par, Epic with fungi I believe outpaces JBB with Fungi (hard to test this and honestly who the fuck cares). Pick what’s fun, enjoy the game. You can do it all on any race.

Yes, everybody agrees that you should play what you want. Some people want to play what is Min/Max so they can get the most out of their character. That is why we have these debates, so people interesting in Min/Maxing can get the facts.

[zelld52]

Hi hello I’ve leveled four shamans to 60 in my time playing P99. I’ve also accomplished a good portion of the Solo Artist Challenge on several toons. .

You've just inspired me to finish levelling my 2nd shaman. I just am hesitant when my first one already has full spellbook, Vindi BP and epic...

Torpor, Pox, Bane, Malo, Epic --- hefty sums to pay out to get all of those again

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You've just inspired me to finish levelling my 2nd shaman. I just am hesitant when my first one already has full spellbook, Vindi BP and epic...

Torpor, Pox, Bane, Malo, Epic --- hefty sums to pay out to get all of those again

At least Torpor has gone down quite a bit in price, at least on blue. I think I paid 80k for mine years ago. Now it's like 40k.

[Toxigen]

Hi hello I’ve leveled four shamans to 60 in my time playing P99. I’ve also accomplished a good portion of the Solo Artist Challenge on several toons.

Blue - Troll Shaman (no JBB or Epic)
Blue - Barb Shaman (JBB, no Epic)
Green - Iksar Shaman (no JBB, Epic)
Green - Ogre Shaman (JBB, Epic)

JBB felt very useful from 45-52 or so. I saw a drastic drop off in use on both the Barb and Ogre as I gained in levels beyond that. It still had occasional use at 55+ and very marginal use at 60, but it was mostly a neat toy at best.

Regen has felt useful to me at all levels. I really quite like it at 60 with Regrowth effects and Aura of Battle, it feels really substantial when solo farming or soloing hard content. FSI has felt mostly useless in all content, really only showing its value in soloing hard content and even then rarely. I’d say in terms of practical application and certainly in how it feels to play any of the characters, Regen > FSI (stuns are annoying, they don’t inhibit your ability to kill a hard target).

Epic is far superior to JBB in my opinion, and certainly if you have a Fungi. I would always pick Epic for leveling, and considering Epic has broad and far reaching use at 60, and JBB has at best marginal use, I’d say JBB is more of a fantastic leveling item than anything else.

The character I’ve accomplished the most on is the Iksar Shaman. I’ve achieved a huge number of solo artist challenge content on him, and I personally love the look.

All in all, play what you want to look at for hundreds if not thousands of hours. None of the racial bonuses will change your gameplay substantially. I’m partial to regen and I’ve found it the most impactful in feel. Others will argue differently, and that’s okay.

Edit: You need none of the tools to level to 60. Yeah, it’s a bit slower. Leveling is where you build the fundamentals, don’t let an item skip them all for you. Leveling with JBB is mathematically faster. Epic is likely on par, Epic with fungi I believe outpaces JBB with Fungi (hard to test this and honestly who the fuck cares). Pick what’s fun, enjoy the game. You can do it all on any race.

ding ding

[Troxx]

Hi hello I’ve leveled four shamans to 60 in my time playing P99. I’ve also accomplished a good portion of the Solo Artist Challenge on several toons.

Blue - Troll Shaman (no JBB or Epic)
Blue - Barb Shaman (JBB, no Epic)
Green - Iksar Shaman (no JBB, Epic)
Green - Ogre Shaman (JBB, Epic)

JBB felt very useful from 45-52 or so. I saw a drastic drop off in use on both the Barb and Ogre as I gained in levels beyond that. It still had occasional use at 55+ and very marginal use at 60, but it was mostly a neat toy at best.

Regen has felt useful to me at all levels. I really quite like it at 60 with Regrowth effects and Aura of Battle, it feels really substantial when solo farming or soloing hard content. FSI has felt mostly useless in all content, really only showing its value in soloing hard content and even then rarely. I’d say in terms of practical application and certainly in how it feels to play any of the characters, Regen > FSI (stuns are annoying, they don’t inhibit your ability to kill a hard target).

Epic is far superior to JBB in my opinion, and certainly if you have a Fungi. I would always pick Epic for leveling, and considering Epic has broad and far reaching use at 60, and JBB has at best marginal use, I’d say JBB is more of a fantastic leveling item than anything else.

The character I’ve accomplished the most on is the Iksar Shaman. I’ve achieved a huge number of solo artist challenge content on him, and I personally love the look.

All in all, play what you want to look at for hundreds if not thousands of hours. None of the racial bonuses will change your gameplay substantially. I’m partial to regen and I’ve found it the most impactful in feel. Others will argue differently, and that’s okay.

Edit: You need none of the tools to level to 60. Yeah, it’s a bit slower. Leveling is where you build the fundamentals, don’t let an item skip them all for you. Leveling with JBB is mathematically faster. Epic is likely on par, Epic with fungi I believe outpaces JBB with Fungi (hard to test this and honestly who the fuck cares). Pick what’s fun, enjoy the game. You can do it all on any race.

Winner winner chicken dinner

[DeathsSilkyMist]

For someone who is reading the end of this thread, please do not listen to posters who claim JBB is only good for leveling from 45-52 or so. This is mathematically incorrect. Posters like Troxx who constantly claim otherwise have not leveled a Shaman from 45-60 with JBB.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3671952&postcount=523 - Here are some calculations for JBB vs. Root/Rotting.

In terms of leveling speed, these are the ranked options from 45-60. All options can include Fungi Tunic/Staff if you can afford them:

1. Epic + JBB + Blight, Hammer of the Scourge (if you are fighting 3+ mobs each pull).
2. Epic (if you are fighting 3+ mobs each pull).
3. JBB + Blight, Hammer of the Scourge (Every race that can use it, no Epic).
4. Root/Rotting without JBB or Epic.

If you can't afford both Epic and Torpor, Use JBB and save for Torpor. You can resell JBB, Fungi Tunic, etc. to get Torpor money. You can't resell Epic for Torpor money. It's better to have Torpor and no Epic at level 60, instead of Epic and no Torpor at level 60.

[Jimjam]

I was about to suggest a better use of the funds is to help a friend twink a melee alt for duoing, but remembered this is an iksar solo challenge thread, so yeah, have your jbb in bag. It’ll look gamewinningly great hidden there, unclicked.

[Troxx]

… remembered this is an iksar solo challenge thread, so yeah, have your jbb in bag. It’ll look gamewinningly great hidden there, unclicked.

Tee hee

Jim, you gotta remember that some members in our community (even those with prolific post counts) aren’t the best at reading comprehension.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Tee hee

Jim, you gotta remember that some members in our community (even those with prolific post counts) aren’t the best at reading comprehension.

Indeed, people like yourself do have reading comprehension issues.


Is missing out on JBB going to hinder me on any solo challenges or is it mostly just for powerleveling yourself?


OP was specifically asking about JBB and it's utility. Discussing that is fair game. I am not sure what thread you've been reading. I do agree other posters have derailed this thread and haven't been reading very well, including yourself.

[Toxigen]

"is jbb going to hinder me on any solo challenges"

answer: no

/thread

instead we're at page 91 with your incessant autism

[DeathsSilkyMist]

"is jbb going to hinder me on any solo challenges"

answer: no

/thread

instead we're at page 91 with your incessant autism

We did indeed answer OP on page 1. Other posters and trolls derailed this thread, not myself. Just look at the post history. I am not sure why you insist on lying about what happened in this thread.

Claiming everybody has autism is just more trolling. Stop bloating the thread with nonsense. Tell Troxx and his friends to do the same if you want to actually fix the problem.

My guess is you don't actually want to fix the problem, based on your past behavior.

[Jimjam]

I don’t believe levelling speed is a valid predictor for solo challenge hinderance.

That said, Jbb barb may have best level speed and a barb is top of the shaman solo challenge list… maybe you are on to something.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I don’t believe levelling speed is a valid predictor for solo challenge hinderance.

That said, Jbb barb may have best level speed and a barb is top of the shaman solo challenge list… maybe you are on to something.

Leveling speed is not everything, I agree on that point. It's fine if you end up taking a less efficient route, as long as you are having fun.

Some people do want to know which leveling strategies are the best, however. We still need to provide the objective information as to which leveling strategies are the best. Using JBB will improve your leveling speed from 45-60.

The Solo Challenge list is irrelevant when it comes to determining which items/racial abilities are objectively the best for a Shaman. Please stop confusing people just because you want to be silly. Everybody agrees that all Shaman races can accomplish the same things on the Solo Challenge list. The Solo Challenge list doesn't change facts such as FSI being superior to Racial Regen at level 60 with Torpor, or that JBB is a useful item.

[Jimjam]

Some people do want to know which leveling strategies are the best, however. We still need to provide the objective information as to which leveling paths are the best. Using JBB will improve your leveling speed from 45-60.
Not for an iskar. Just a waste of a bag slot. Spend that pp on a friend to hit 60 and begin challenges earlier.

Everybody agrees that all Shaman races can accomplish the same things on the Solo Challenge list.

There's the answer to the thread!

The Solo Challenge list is irrelevant when it comes to determining which items/racial abilities are objectively the best for a Shaman.
Please expand.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Not for an iskar. Just a waste of a bag slot.


Indeed. Nobody has claimed an Iksar should buy a JBB. OP was wondering if they should pick a different race because Iksar's can't use JBB. That is why we are discussing the merits of JBB, so OP can decide if Iksar is right for them.


There's the answer to the thread!


As I keep saying, people want actual answers to questions. Nobody would be posting new threads on this forum if the answer was always "just do whatever you want, it doesn't matter". If you find Min/Maxing fun, you want to know which racial bonuses and items are objectively the best.

You can certainly provide the caveat that the differences between Shaman races are not extreme, due to the high power of the Shaman class. However, some people find it fun to have a character that is 2% stronger than every other Shaman race because they picked the best race for the class. I am not sure why some posters are so resistant to giving other posters real information on these forums.


Please expand.

I know you are just being silly right now, but I'll indulge you. Players can do everything a Shaman can do on the Solo Challenge list without FSI, for example. However, FSI factually makes solo challenge fights faster and easier.

Some people want to make solo challenge fights faster/easier. Mobs in Everquest can have long respawn timers. Some mobs take quite a bit of setup to pull and get into a position to kill. You could also have mobs taken from you if you die. Another player could be watching your fight to see if they can snipe the kill.

If you gave the best player on the Solo Challenge list a BiS Ogre Shaman, they will factually be more efficient at completing the solo challenge fights than if they were using a BiS Barbarian. This is because FSI will help in the fight, where a Barbarian's XP bonus would not.

[Toxigen]

jesus titty fuckin christ

[Troxx]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/z5c1hQRcoYn9m/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952e5eojsw9synbd0sc4y7nmv7ishgvw 65pvec2yxum&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

[PatChapp]

Fos/stam/dex pls
Who cares what race the buffbot is

[zelld52]

Fos/stam/dex pls
Who cares what race the buffbot is

inc FoS / sta - proc your primal if you want dex

[Duik]

DSM
As I keep saying, people want Factual answers to questions.

[Penish]

"is jbb going to hinder me on any solo challenges"

answer: no

/thread

instead we're at page 91 with your incessant autism

lol

[Tann]

92 pages, I'm so proud of you all. Let's ride this wave to 150 <3

Iksar shm > ogre.. discuss the merits of FSi one more time please

[DeathsSilkyMist]

92 pages, I'm so proud of you all. Let's ride this wave to 150 <3

Iksar shm > ogre.. discuss the merits of FSi one more time please

Please stop providing misinformation because you want to be silly. Iksar Shamans are not better than Ogre Shamans when you look at the math and the data in most scenarios. If people want to learn more, please check out my guide in my signature.

[Duik]

1. Aint no one (above the age of 15) reading anyones sig.
2. Aint no one watching you play ya lil game, especially wiff runnin' commentary.

Have we not been through this before? Like multiple times. With the same factual facts along with mathual maths? You fall for it multiple times, from multiple people.
You have become better at being taunted (289).

Your trouble is you think the readers are all morons who cant understand your napkin math and decide for themselves. By trying to unmuddy the waters of knowledge you have in fact, muddied them.

If somebody has not found your calculations compelling the first time, im doubtful repeating it will change their minds.

You carefully set out your napkin (math. Hooray! Good job nobody.) and offer many points supported by numerous calculations. These will compel some and repel others.
We could just let your factual facts and mathual maths stand on their respective merits.

The constant repetition reeks of desperation.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Your trouble is you think the readers are all morons who cant understand your napkin math and decide for themselves. By trying to unmuddy the waters of knowledge you have in fact, muddied them.


The trouble is trolls like yourself post nonsense, which makes it difficult for people to actually find answers to the questions they are asking. Please stick to RnF if you want to troll. You aren't funny, and nobody cares that you are trying to be funny. Your trolling is bad, and nobody cares about it either.

[Duik]

1. I know I am funny.
2. Im not trying to be funny pointing out your continuous posting of the same stuff over and over and over again. If people are not convinced after the first 18 times, I doubt the 19th time will be the charm.
But please contunue, maybe someone will watch a video and say well done son. Have an icecream, on me buddy and muss up your hair.

Also, the trouble is you give your fellow humans little faith you have respect for their logic skills. You get that some of your calcs, people (me included) agree with you. You understand unlike complete idiots (which most of us are not) we get your points. Agree/disagree does not matter.

But I'm the troll cuz im trying to point out to you we are not all clueless morons that need constant reminders of your calculations. Ad Infinitum.

Barbs better at shamaning. <----- now that's the troll bit.

[Jimjam]

If you reflect through mirroring, paraphrasing or summarising you’ll just be unironically labelled ‘funny(!)’. Perhaps an ineffective strategy.

[Toxigen]

when that iksar shaman is wearing PD robe he'll be better than any ogre shaman ever

https://i.imgur.com/Zsnbkzd.jpeg

Also who wouldn't want to be in Ancient Blood?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient_Blood

[Lament Icarus]

Please stop providing misinformation because you want to be silly. Iksar Shamans are not better than Ogre Shamans when you look at the math and the data in most scenarios. If people want to learn more, please check out my guide in my signature.

I don't check the forums much and don't post often, and I don't know who you are. I do agree with the other posters in that when you try and "fight the trolls", you actually make threads extremely difficult to follow and good information is buried amongst the back and forth, and you also seem incapable of just letting something go. That's a shame, because you seem to have knowledge of the shaman class, and you've posted about it, but then just repeat it over and over as if it will finally convince the "trolls" of your points.

We can even see it with the OP of this thread who got the information they needed on page one, and new players are not going to read 90+ pages of a thread that's just the same arguments ad nauseam.

I did read your Shaman Race Guide though, and I found your points interesting, although I'd argue they come truly out of an ideal math scenario and not practical experience in any way, especially your points about FSI in raiding and in resist solo scenarios. If you look at FSI in vacuum, sure, you may be able to cast Gate one cast sooner. You could also just click your WC cap, which I assume you have if you're fighting hard content, which is the scenario you bring up where it's useful.

This is not an argument for the other racial bonuses. I was a sweaty raider on Blue and on especially on Green, where I raided from Classic -> Velious and did every single piece of content so many times I never want to raid again. The situations in which you say FSI is "Overall Useful" are so few and far between actually happening that I found FSI "Overall Useless" in almost every single scenario outside of hard soloing. I can't think of a single time that FSI was the determining factor of landing a slow in raid content ever in all my history of zerg and low man raiding.

I'd encourage you to let your ideas just stand on their own merit instead of repeating them forever.

[PatChapp]

when that iksar shaman is wearing PD robe he'll be better than any ogre shaman ever

https://i.imgur.com/Zsnbkzd.jpeg

Also who wouldn't want to be in Ancient Blood?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient_Blood

Both of those robes dropped off one pd,magic.

[Toxigen]

Both of those robes dropped off one pd,magic.

thats awesome

i love the idea of iksar only guild lol...i wonder what the hardest kills they've done (no alliance raiding)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I don't check the forums much and don't post often, and I don't know who you are. I do agree with the other posters in that when you try and "fight the trolls", you actually make threads extremely difficult to follow and good information is buried amongst the back and forth, and you also seem incapable of just letting something go. That's a shame, because you seem to have knowledge of the shaman class, and you've posted about it, but then just repeat it over and over as if it will finally convince the "trolls" of your points.

We can even see it with the OP of this thread who got the information they needed on page one, and new players are not going to read 90+ pages of a thread that's just the same arguments ad nauseam.

I'd encourage you to let your ideas just stand on their own merit instead of repeating them forever.

The thread is not 90 pages because of me. It's 90 pages because trolls keep posting bloat like off-topic comments, insults, misinformation, etc. They also repeat their points ad nauseum, and they do this first. Singling me out shows you simply haven't read this thread, or the others like it.

If you are concerned about bloated threads, fight the people who are actually bloating the threads, not the people trying to provide actual answers to OP's question like myself. This thread was answered on page 1, but the trolls can't help themselves.

It's going to be even harder to find information if you let the trolls win. You'll see 20 completely wrong posts for every 1 that is correct. They purposely post false information as trolling, because they don't care about these forums or helping others.

If more people call out the trolls and post correct information, it will be harder for the trolls to be believed, and their misinformation won't be as prevalent. They will get bored of the pushbck, as bullies generally can't handle pushback from multiple people. They thrive on ganging up on single people, and hoping it silences others out of fear.



I did read your Shaman Race Guide though, and I found your points interesting, although I'd argue they come truly out of an ideal math scenario and not practical experience in any way, especially your points about FSI in raiding and in resist solo scenarios. If you look at FSI in vacuum, sure, you may be able to cast Gate one cast sooner. You could also just click your WC cap, which I assume you have if you're fighting hard content, which is the scenario you bring up where it's useful.

This is not an argument for the other racial bonuses. I was a sweaty raider on Blue and on especially on Green, where I raided from Classic -> Velious and did every single piece of content so many times I never want to raid again. The situations in which you say FSI is "Overall Useful" are so few and far between actually happening that I found FSI "Overall Useless" in almost every single scenario outside of hard soloing. I can't think of a single time that FSI was the determining factor of landing a slow in raid content ever in all my history of zerg and low man raiding.


In raiding all racials are muted for the most part. You have to look at these things relatively. Racial regeneration has less overall use in raids. 8 HP/Tick is not going to save you when a flurry is quadding you for 700. FSI can allow you to land a slow before you die, however. Is the chance low? Sure! but it's better than racial regeneration in that scenario, which is the point. That is one reason why FSI is better in raids, even with the understanding that no racial is necessary for raiding.

Some people like having the best possible advantage via Min/Maxing, even when that advantage is small.

[Toxigen]

i like bloated threads because it gives me something to read at work

[Duik]

I just spent six months reading stinky bloat.

[Duik]

DSM
If you are concerned about bloated threads, fight the people who are actually bloating the threads, not the people trying to provide actual answers to OP's question like myself. This thread was answered on page 1, but the trolls can't help themselves.

This is gold plated.

I honestly cannot tell if you are serious or the top troll here.

Kudos buddy, now off ya trot an' get an icecream.
Also.

An entire screen full of bloat complaining about trolls bloating up threads that have (by your admission) been answered on page 1.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This is gold plated.

I honestly cannot tell if you are serious or the top troll here.

Kudos buddy, now off ya trot an' get an icecream.
Also.

An entire screen full of bloat complaining about trolls bloating up threads that have (by your admission) been answered on page 1.

These are some posters who generally bloat threads with nonsense:

Troxx 160
bcbrown 117
Toxigen 60
Duik 53
Ripqozko 11
Penish 11

Total is 412 posts to my 368.

Most of the posts from these users are some combination of insults, off-topic nonsense, trolling, unnecessary posts etc. There's a bit of genuine back and forth, but it's honestly hard to tell when posters like Troxx and Bcbrown are actually being serious. Those two are both admitted trolls. You (Duik) are also a troll who has just gotten off a ban. Toxigen sometimes bloats threads, depending on their mood.

It's very easy to check the post history of the thread by just reading the first few pages of the thread. It's easy to check the post history of the above mentioned posters in this thread. I never start these long threads. I am just responding to the nonsense. If you don't post nonsense, I don't need to reply. Trying to lie about who's bloating the threads doesn't make any sense. Nobody will believe you.

[Duik]

Bingo. Bloat for bloats sake.

DSM
If you don't post nonsense, I don't need to reply.

Exactly.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Exactly.

Since you agree with me that you are posting nonsense, please stop posting nonsense moving forward. You can post all the nonsense you want in RnF.

[Troxx]

lol

“I’m not the one bloating up the thread because all these other posters combined have 12% more total posts than the posts I made by myself”

Dude. You. By yourself. Are. More. Than. One. Third. Of. The. Total. Posts. In. Ninety. Four. Pages. Of. Posts.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

lol

“I’m not the one bloating up the thread because all these other posters combined have 12% more total posts than the posts I made by myself”

Dude. You. By yourself. Are. More. Than. One. Third. Of. The. Total. Posts. In. Ninety. Four. Pages. Of. Posts.

You continue to make yourself look bad with this nonsense. I don't know why you keep doing it. Multiple posters have responded to me in this thread.

If three posters reply to a single poster, you'll end up with one poster who has 3 posts, and three posters who have 1 post each. This is very simple math.

Nobody would claim that the person with 3 posts in this scenario is bloating the thread. There is one post per reply, which is normal.

This is just classic trolling/bullying behavior from Troxx and friends. You gang up on people you disagree with in an attempt to silence them. This is because you cannot win a debate by yourself. Again, here are the actual post count numbers:


Troxx 160
bcbrown 117
Toxigen 60
Duik 53
Ripqozko 11
Penish 11

Total is 412 posts to my 368.


My posts are in response to posters like these. If you didn't troll this thread, there would be 320 less posts in this thread. -160 from you, and -160 responses from myself. I never start these long back and forth sessions. The post history is quite clear.

You have the second highest post count in this thread. I am not sure why you are trying to bring up post count anyway lol.

Lying about what happened in this thread just makes you look worse.

If you want to stop thread bloat, stop lying and posting nonsense. Then other posters don't have to defend themselves or correct falsehoods. RnF is specifically designed for you kind of posting.

Must. Respond. Can't not respond. It is my lifes imperative.

You are the one who feels compelled to post nonsense all the time after everybody else, contributing nothing but bloat to the thread.

[Duik]

Must. Respond. Can't not respond. It is my lifes imperative.

[Duik]

Can't not respond. Unpossible.

Super duper late edit there DSM. Nice one. Ya got me.
Double post. Me Le Madz.

[Troxx]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/AKaEfzaLlr0yI/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952leeougxpoclu8tyxofro5fhr0k0v6 mg5blgtqu74&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

Fixed that for you.

[bcbrown]

It's very easy to check the post history of the thread by just reading the first few pages of the thread. It's easy to check the post history of the above mentioned posters in this thread. I never start these long threads. I am just responding to the nonsense. If you don't post nonsense, I don't need to reply. Trying to lie about who's bloating the threads doesn't make any sense. Nobody will believe you.

Regarding "Nobody will believe you", this just isn't correct. When someone who rarely checks the forums and doesn't post much, when they came into this thread, who did they gently encourage to reflect on how their behavior undermines their stated intentions?

I don't check the forums much and don't post often, and I don't know who you are. I do agree with the other posters in that when you try and "fight the trolls", you actually make threads extremely difficult to follow and good information is buried amongst the back and forth, and you also seem incapable of just letting something go. That's a shame, because you seem to have knowledge of the shaman class, and you've posted about it, but then just repeat it over and over as if it will finally convince the "trolls" of your points.

We can even see it with the OP of this thread who got the information they needed on page one, and new players are not going to read 90+ pages of a thread that's just the same arguments ad nauseam.

I'd encourage you to let your ideas just stand on their own merit instead of repeating them forever.

You say "If you don't post nonsense, I don't need to reply", but you don't need to reply to nonsense. You could instead trust other readers to recognize nonsense when they see it. If someone else is repeatedly "posting nonsense" I'm quite confident your rebuttal will be far more credible and convincing with a single response than by repeatedly copy-pasting the same points over and over every time.

If you are unable or unwilling to accept advice from me, I earnestly beg you to at least re-read what Lament Icarus wrote and ask yourself whether getting that sort of response or reaction from an uninvolved and disinterested reader of the thread makes you feel like your current approach has achieved your aims.

[Duik]

bcbrown, your nathual math and factual facts have been weighed and measered and found wanting.

Stop bullying the DSM factual fact machine, fixing threads since Jan 2014.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Regarding "Nobody will believe you", this just isn't correct. When someone who rarely checks the forums and doesn't post much, when they came into this thread, who did they gently encourage to reflect on how their behavior undermines their stated intentions?


I wish people would call out the obvious problem posters, but they don't want to be attacked in every thread after that because they angered the mob. That is what happens on this forum, and they can see it.

That is why people will respond to me instead. I don't attack people, so they feel like they can actually have a dialogue. They think that if they can convince me to stop posting, the trolls will stop too.

Sadly that is not how bullies and trolls work. They will continue to bloat threads and attack other posters, even when I am gone.


You "If you don't post nonsense, I don't need to reply", but you don't need to reply to nonsense. You could instead trust other readers to recognize nonsense when they see it. If someone else is repeatedly "posting nonsense" I'm quite confident your rebuttal will be far more credible and convincing with a single response than by repeatedly copy-pasting the same points over and over every time.

If you are unable or unwilling to accept advice from me, I earnestly beg you to at least re-read what Lament Icarus wrote and ask yourself whether getting that sort of response or reaction from an uninvolved and disinterested reader of the thread makes you feel like your current approach has achieved your aims.

You do realize that you also repeat yourself and respond when you don't need to? It's the same with the other trolls. You are an admitted troll youself.

Before you give advice to others, actually practice what you preach lol. This is why your words ring hollow.

If you didn't post this nonsense, I wouldn't need to respond to it in self defense. Learn how cause and effect works, teach it to your fellow trolls, and the bloat will stop.

Learn how to stay on topic too. Your attempts at giving advice have nothing to do with this thread. You can post in RnF about me if you want, that is the place to do it.

[Tann]

https://i.giphy.com/amUVFzg1wNZKg.gif

[Toxigen]

lol tann

[Penish]

https://i.giphy.com/amUVFzg1wNZKg.gif

You shouldn't post IRL pics of DSM, but I mean funny nonetheless

lol

[Troxx]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/eqC2ZT8OCgmas/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952ruwnviroh31wx5hfw19jgez2ax8cl v6y4an0bjei&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g