Awakened 30 day

[NarukToras]

and go ...

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292341

[Daloon]

dang

[kotton05]

talk shit get banned. this world is sirkens oyster.

[Wojtekd33]

WTB Gnome Mask. Figured i post it here.. cause this forum is going to get a lot of views

[Phatez]

danny with the yellow texr

[punkbythebook12]

This mob was intentionally pulled onto a raid target at entrance with 10 % life left. Dick move to do. Could of just nicely waited until mob was killed. Common courtesy goes a long way

[mattydef]

Lol

[jpetrick]

next month is going to be really boring without awakened there

[Argh]

Who is leadership going to be in the new reformed guild?

[Kesselring]

This mob was intentionally pulled onto a raid target at entrance with 10 % life left. Dick move to do. Could of just nicely waited until mob was killed. Common courtesy goes a long way

Exactly this.

[Arkanjil]

Who is leadership going to be in the new reformed guild?

Yep...I see a reformation in the making!

[skarlorn]

great job sirken i think i can masturbate now

[Atmas]

Exactly this.

No it's exactly not this, I can attest as the person responsible. I logged into the game and tagged a mob that had already been pulled to picture hall and pulled it to entrance. I was just getting in the game and didn't know that CSG was at entrance killing Eashen.
99% of the time when its not a repop (which it wasn't) we are killing a mob in the spot that CSG was occupying.

I'm sorry CSG got trained, I would never do it intentionally and I don't know why on earth anyone would train a separate dragon they could kill on some other guild intentionally. It doesn't speak well about states of mind that believe this would be the case.

[punkbythebook12]

No it's exactly not this, I can attest as the person responsible. I logged into the game and tagged a mob that had already been pulled to picture hall and pulled it to entrance. I was just getting in the game and didn't know that CSG was at entrance killing Eashen.
99% of the time when its not a repop (which it wasn't) we are killing a mob in the spot that CSG was occupying.

I'm sorry CSG got trained, I would never do it intentionally and I don't know why on earth anyone would train a separate dragon they could kill on some other guild intentionally. It doesn't speak well about states of mind that believe this would be the case.

So you were completely out of the loop of knowing what your guild was doing, you just log in and go headstrong for tag? Im just not computing this

[thebutthat]

Oooh boy. 30 days of AW packing up the HS/Seb/KC/Velks camps. It's like...we all get a little banned.

[beversami]

Oooh boy. 30 days of AW packing up the HS/Seb/KC/Velks camps. It's like...we all get a little banned.

[Computer Man]

Who is leadership going to be in the new reformed guild?

..and will it be called <Woke> ?

[Phatez]

over under 30 pages of awakened refusing to admit they did anything wrong?

Pretty sure Opmeter just admitted that he made a mistake and he did not do it on purpose. They are paying for this mistake dearly for the next 30 days... no need to be a dick about it.

[Atmas]

So you were completely out of the loop of knowing what your guild was doing, you just log in and go headstrong for tag? Im just not computing this

Do you mean you aren't computing as in you don't believe my statement or it's a strange set of circumstances to you?

In either case it gets summed up this way: The ToV raid scene is typically very competitive and mobs get pulled quickly regularly. You made a statement about common courtesy of waiting but that is really what's out of place. The majority of time when two dragons are up if one guild has pulled and is killing one the other guild will be working on pulling the other dragon. I guarantee one way or another that dragon was going to get pulled based on it spawning then.

I can't even say who made the first attempt at pulling Fesh because it was there before I got in the game. It is not uncommon for mobs to be pulled by one guild and end up having it leash or the pull fail so being picked up by the other guild. All I know is that when I got in the game I was made aware we had the last FTE and needed it pulled in. I was logging in because I got a batphone for Fesh. I didn't even know Eashen was up at all because no batphone was sent earlier because A/A was disqualified for tracker FTEs.

So go ahead and be upset that you got trained and it cost you some time. I know it sucks, it's happened to me over the course of my P99 more times than I can count spanning from Vox/Naggy through Trakanon and basically almost every worthwhile mob. Just don't fabricate a story that someone trained you purposely, or for some kind of vengeance, or even solely because they didn't feel like waiting.

[Arkanjil]

Pretty sure Opmeter just admitted that he made a mistake and he did not do it on purpose. They are paying for this mistake dearly for the next 30 days... no need to be a dick about it.

[jpetrick]

Shit happens Atmas. Sucks to be responsible for getting your guild suspended but it comes with the territory of being an active puller.

[HalasHermit]

Sirken saw my 90 day RA had gone over 15% and did what he thought he had to....oh well life goes on back out into RL I go.

Sirken, don't worry, I was just taking some time off between jobs after working overseas for 5 years, maybe just 30 day me next time so the other casuals don't have to deal with us all over Norrath for 30 days?

[punkbythebook12]

We all use for voice for communication and feshlak was not contested. I just cant believe you didnt hear during all the commotion that CSG is at zoneline killing a mob and that is almost dead. People watch targets health like mad to get ToD. Shit happens, yeah but still the common courtesy would of been great to wait 5 seconds we had left to down that mob. No ill will at all towards you, besides, this is RNF correct?

[HalasHermit]

Actually the plan was to pull to cubby and leave you guys alone at entrance to finish off Eashan but like Op said, he had just logged on and missed that bit and pulled to where 99 times out of 100 we would have been.

Sorry the big bad guy narrative was actually an honest mistake by a very upstanding player?

[Atmas]

I log in the game and get in TS about the same time. I was camped at the bottom of stairs of picture hall. People are talking in TS and stuff is flying in guild chat. I go up the stairs and see the dragon, someone says a tag is needed, I did it and pulled it in, the whole process took probably around 30 seconds, if even.

Was Eashen and CSG mentioned? I'm sure it was, unfortunately not in the short time frame I was online. Like I said, no batphone for a mob we were dq-ed from so I didn't even know Eashen was up. I came in thinking Fesh was the first spawn of the day. I mean, you can tell me how often are you guys killing Eashen at zone in?

[skarlorn]

I'm going to sleep, when I wake up I want to see a bunch of dudes having meltdowns because their lifestyle based around raiding eq just got shitcanned for 30 days

[Djones]

I'm going to sleep, when I wake up I want to see a bunch of dudes having meltdowns because their lifestyle based around raiding eq just got shitcanned for 30 days

ALL I EVER WANTED FROM YOU WAS TO LOVE ME. INSTEAD YOU LOVE EVERYTHING THAT ISNT ME. WHAT IS IT ABOUT ME?

[rebeccablack]

a 30 day raid ban is something most guilds would not survive. best of luck to awakened.

[Swiftyfist]

30 whole days, and i said 20 was harsh. more and more disappointing. Accidents happen. Be safe out there pulling guys! you shit talkers might be next.

[Fani]

30 whole days, and i said 20 was harsh. more and more disappointing. Accidents happen. Be safe out there pulling guys! you shit talkers might be next.

"Accidents happen." True, but still its u what cause this accident! just accept the justice and be more sensitive with other guilds and dont only see the pixels u can lose!

Sirken just want us to thread each other well and with respect and dont fuck each other for some pixels!

[Kesselring]

Yeah 30 days is too much. Not sure who greenlighted that idea. If this happens to a guild like paradigm shift or kittens it could quite literally kill their community. I gotta say I'm not very satisfied with it being 30 days. 20 days was a good inbetween but these escalating bans are not good for the community of this server. And I'm saying this as the main opposition of AW (I'm in aftermath). I personally would like for GMs and server admins/p99 devs to reconsider this ruling for the future.

[branamil]

There's really no point to a 30 day unless the goal is intentionally kill off guilds and make players quit. I mean, really, people can't play for a 10th of a year because some random losers wiped and had to try again in 5 minutes? I'm not even in that guild and it's just totally asinine.

[Nisse]

Dark days

[Skew]

As someone who has always been competing against Rampage and Awakened , i find this upping the ante of raid bans for less and less serious infractions , a shame.
I can only assume that staff want to reduce numbers on Blue and are starting at the top (at least half of AA only log in to raid)
Sorry for my Awakened pals :(

[Nommis]

I appreciate the support from my fellow homies during these trying times.

https://i.imgur.com/P3qLS7K.png

[Swiftyfist]

"Accidents happen." True, but still its u what cause this accident! just accept the justice and be more sensitive with other guilds and dont only see the pixels u can lose!

Sirken just want us to thread each other well and with respect and dont fuck each other for some pixels!

Its not about being more sensitive, as this can happen to you! or azure guard or PS or aftermath, Accidents when everyone is pulling at the same time happen. No one fucked each other over for pixels a mistake happened, times like these are way better to make a deal with the said guild than ban every one members from doing the thing they love for a whole month for that guilds pixels over 1 mob 1 mistake

[Argh]

Suspension length is definitely the result of a grand GM conspiracy to reduce the population on blue, and has nothing to do with this being Awakened's 10th suspension.

[Swiftyfist]

But yeah! petition away! that gets said guild more loot in the long run, why not work it out? oh i get it now.

[icedwards]

bummer

wts lodi map loot rights and other lodi accessories

[Skew]

Suspension length is definitely the result of a grand GM conspiracy to reduce the population on blue, and has nothing to do with this being Awakened's 10th suspension.


No one in AA wants to go to Sirken about anything. The petitons must be at an all time low so he decides to up the punishment :confused::confused::confused: weird logic when he always said for guilds to work things out themselves.

AA must have competed on >2000 mobs in the last 2 years. The odd train is going to happen. Theyre not intentional and mostly get dealt with before involving staff - did CSG actually petition this?

[zodium]

https://i.imgur.com/4tPac9C.gif

[Csihar]

This just seems like part of the and toxic vibe (and to a lesser degree toxic personalities) on parts of the server. That entire raid moment was filled with unnecessary aggression from a lot of parties. I doubt any proper personal communication was had (correct me if I'm wrong) while the communication that definitely did happen was public and antagonizing. Ban seems excessive and/or potentially unnecessary so I do empathize with Awakened but I wonder if it could have been avoided through some healthy communication. Though I guess it depends on whether or not that communication did in fact take place and why the ban happened.

[Kavious]

Are Awakened members allowed to buy loot rights on raid targets?

[Ruhtar]

Pretty sure everyone knew the raid suspensions were getting longer for repeat
offenders.

Whether intentional or not, maybe next time the monk puller will get into comms prior to logging ingame and get an idea what's going on instead of going in blind. We call this a learning experience.

Now go surprise your friends and family, letting them know you're still alive after this long break from the real-life emulator.

[aaezil]

*has like 50 raid bans*
*suggests that "accidents happen"*

Profit?

[Skew]

Wheres Swish and his consider Red GIFs when you need them.

[Levlenna]

If Kelza(ras) yes, him again, had waited a tiny bit longer to pull, Eashen would have been dead and nothing would have happened.
He gets Awakened banned, gets kicked out, gets invited again on an alt, and gets them banned again. What a great puller!

[Culkasi]

If Kelza(ras) yes, him again, had waited a tiny bit longer to pull, Eashen would have been dead and nothing would have happened.
He gets Awakened banned, gets kicked out, gets invited again on an alt, and gets them banned again. What a great puller!

Its ridicolous to blame Kelazaraz. The problem here is that a cpl of guilds thinks stuff they have killed hundreds of times still needs to die within a minute of it spawning, so noone else can get the pleasure of killing it. As long as that culture prevails, these bans will continue to come, and they will continue to increase in severity.

[Breaken]

Let me get this straight. We cleared a separate camp since the one we usually use was taken. We attempt to pull a mob into our new, solo camp, but it gets dragged onto another guild, so we concede the mob. We then get suspended for that? Sounds like we followed procedure on what to do when you accidentally train a guild.

Just ban entrance pulling already. This is a joke.

[Baler]

Just ban entrance pulling already. This is a joke.

Agree'd

[Levlenna]

No, awakened and aftermath had Already conceded Eashen. So when CSG was killing it, Awak pulled Feshlak.

[Baler]

"Raid Suspension: Awakened": 9
"Raid Suspension: Aftermath": 7

[Baler]

Here is another fucking crazy idea.. How about a raid rotation so people aren't holding each other's genitals at zone in?

[MalystryxVoF]

your pull was dropped on us, intentional or not, Fesh was DROPPED on us, no one in awakened had agro and FTE on it anymore because Fesh FTE'ed our main tank while fighting eashen as soon as fesh got through the door. so someone flopped that dragon on our heads.

yes you conceded a lilbit after, but never bothered to talk to CSG about it AT ALL. so no, no one tried to work it out, with us.

accidents happen yes, but pulling a dragon into the camp of someone else while said dragon slaughters that entire raid is not an 'oops accident' and yer fine infraction. most of you guys logged out while it was rampaging through our camp with not much thought about getting him back to your own camp, or training him away from what i could see.

yer monk didn't know where your entire raid was? and pulled it anyway? i don't care if you guys fight him 1039109301577 times in 1 spot. you dont just assume it will always be the same, you KNOW where you are pulling a mob to before you tag shit so you can actually KILL it in said spot, especially when there were almost 300 people in the zone!!! YOU BE SURE!

Being ignorant of what is going on is not an excuse.

[Skew]

Here is another fucking crazy idea.. How about a raid rotation so people aren't holding each other's genitals at zone in?

Sure. Lets here your idea of a rotation then.

[Fragged]

Being ignorant of what is going on is not an excuse.

Oh boy. Here it comes.

[Akg49]

Should be 60 days.

[Baler]

Sure. Lets here your idea of a rotation then.

https://i.imgur.com/JGbZAEb.gif

[Troxx]

Regardless of the circumstances of this incident, I’m quite happy that a more heavy handed approach is being used now. We have a free server with volunteer staff. The raid scene is toxic and in a lot of cases you either have people gearing out their 5th alt or the new player freshly siphoned away from a lesser guild - frustrated that their previous guild was elbowed out of content.

We aren’t going past velious. How many times must you kil the same dragon?

All of that aside, the only real problem is that the competitive nature of the raid scene devolves into bat-phoning, rule lawyering, and childish behavior. If you can’t play nice in the sand box, repeat offenders should face exponential consequences.

[Heebs13]

I trust Opmeter. He plays a paladin. That automatically makes him lawful good.

Sorry this happened to you guys. 30 days is rough.

[Baler]

Regardless of the circumstances of this incident, I’m quite happy that a more heavy handed approach is being used now. We have a free server with volunteer staff. The raid scene is toxic and in a lot of cases you either have people gearing out their 5th alt or the new player freshly siphoned away from a lesser guild - frustrated that their previous guild was elbowed out of content.

We aren’t going past velious. How many times must you kil the same dragon?

All of that aside, the only real problem is that the competitive nature of the raid scene devolves into bat-phoning, rule lawyering, and childish behavior. If you can’t play nice in the sand box, repeat offenders should face exponential consequences.

Well said. :)

[Troxx]

Its not about being more sensitive, as this can happen to you! or azure guard or PS or aftermath, Accidents when everyone is pulling at the same time happen. No one fucked each other over for pixels a mistake happened, times like these are way better to make a deal with the said guild than ban every one members from doing the thing they love for a whole month for that guilds pixels over 1 mob 1 mistake

Rules clearly state that penalties are subject to increasing over time for repeat offenders.

I doubt a guild like Kittens et al would get a 30 day. I see this as a stern warning shot across the bow to the big dogs. When you have a long history of prior offenses, there should be less tolerance.

To piggy-back off my last post, this appears to be a true accidental fuck up, but it’s a symptom of a bigger problem. If the raid scene wasn’t the way it is where man-children camp in/out ready to tag and pull before asking “should I?” - that’s a problem. People are so used to this practice that it’s common place and bad for everyone.

“How” people raid on p99 is a problem. This incident (accident or otherwise) is a symptom of that problem. I’m surprised it’s taken the volunteer staff this long to get truly harsh.

[Ravager]

There's really no point to a 30 day unless the goal is intentionally kill off guilds and make players quit. I mean, really, people can't play for a 10th of a year because some random losers wiped and had to try again in 5 minutes? I'm not even in that guild and it's just totally asinine.
So what? It's just the server wipe everyone's been asking for.

[Legday]

Curious as to who CSG was in this case? Was it the traditional group of ag/Omni/Europa? Or are we now just calling any guild(s) that aren't a/a that are in our general vicinity "csg".

[MalystryxVoF]

it was AG/euro/omni yes.

[beargryllz]

Curious as to who CSG was in this case? Was it the traditional group of ag/Omni/Europa?

By coincidence and good fortune, there were just enough AG, Europa, and Omni players at the zone in to make an attempt

[moss_snake_shadowknight]

Here is another fucking crazy idea.. How about a raid rotation so people aren't holding each other's genitals at zone in?

PM'd Chest, I think he might be interested.

[smitho1984]

This mob was intentionally pulled onto a raid target at entrance with 10 % life left. Dick move to do. Could of just nicely waited until mob was killed. Common courtesy goes a long way

100% wrong. Our puller didn't know we were set up in the cubby and puller to entrance by accident. We already conceeded Eashen previously. It was a communication issue, but keep rocking that tinfoil hat pal. This is what happens when 5 guilds bum rush ToV and instant engaged are necessity to aquire mobs.

[smitho1984]

This mob was intentionally pulled onto a raid target at entrance with 10 % life left. Dick move to do. Could of just nicely waited until mob was killed. Common courtesy goes a long way

100% wrong. Our puller didn't know we were set up in the cubby and puller to entrance by accident. We already conceeded Eashen previously. It was a communication issue, but keep rocking that tinfoil hat pal. This is what happens when 5 guilds bum rush ToV and instant engaged are necessity to aquire mobs. In the land of 20day + suspensions why would anyone purposely train and wipe.... Use logic.

[Mockba1980]

Breaken's Prius is broken !

https://i.imgur.com/aN0acfSm.jpg

[Rang]

https://i.imgur.com/ZJP3Q0j.png

Teija on suicide watch?

[Baler]

https://i.imgur.com/mVTjI0v.png

[Spyder73]

https://i.imgur.com/ZJP3Q0j.png

Teija on suicide watch?

Teija bergin so hard he smashed his urine bottle against the wall

[acidosis]

Should be 60 days.

[kotton05]

it puts the tinfoil on the skin or else it gets the hose again

[Jonabis]

Time for A/A merge it seems what server staff wants. Crush the casuals out of existence.

[mefdinkins]

I love the same CSG players that were going nuts about AG's suspension are back again blabbering about justice.

It is coincidental that Aw/Am both conceded Eashan because of their overly cautious interpretation of a raid rule. That rule has since been clarified and Aw/Am both wouldn't have had to conede. Under today's rules CSG would have not even been in TOV. Aw/AMs cautiousness gave CSG a free (no tracking time spent, no wall staring/cothing/FTE'ing) opportunity at Eashen and then a mistake was made in an overly crowded zone on a mob that Awakened conceded and now it's 30 days in the ass.

[Spyder73]

Time for A/A merge it seems what server staff wants. Crush the casuals out of existence.

<Taken> switched alliances out of FAT into Rampage, they had their chance and chose poorly. True Asgardians will not forget this treachery and will not accept Taken scum into our ranks, especially not en masse

[Heebs13]

I love the same CSG players that were going nuts about AG's suspension are back again blabbering about justice.

Sorry this happened to you guys. 30 days is rough.

/shrug

[Wfrench1234]

Gonna be a tough environment to learn pulls in. One honest mistake and chances are good we get a ten day vacation

[Tayy]

I've never been on welfare but I'd find it hard to hold my head up with pride as a man if I couldn't make it on my own and had to live off the hard work of others.

Enjoy the welfare pixels to those who want to all receive their winner trophies for just showing up.

[Erati]

very disappointing that things arnt communicated better between the guilds when we have a raid discussion forum right here on the forums. Oh wait, many people still are unable to post on there ( like myself ) so its not a wonder the communication is pretty crappy between most raid entities let alone the cluster of resources when multiple guilds attempt to compete in ToV with only 1 choke point for dragons to go through after removing binds.

this is a tad bit extreme to levy on a group of players, I wonder what the goal is for signing off on such a harsh sentence when the rules were followed conceding mobs after they were trained. Do we have to have make up sex with all the officers of the parties we offended too? What exactly are we suppose to do here?

Pathetic joke of a raid scene imo when you punish some of the most loyal, dedicated and addicted members of YOUR server with a 30 day vacation. Jumba is right, no one is going to continue putting up with this crap, whats the point if you can never seemingly control the fate of your raid guild bc everything is done on an emotional whim. Awakened certainly messed up that morning but we followed the rules and conceded the mobs we messed up on. I guess that isnt good enough though, we need to make people stop playing. Got it.

[mefdinkins]

/shrug

yeah it's mostly the trolls really. oh well, i just feel bad Opmeter feels responsible and feel bad that some people will move on to other games or servers. maybe that's just life though

[Foxplay]

30 days for some of the most geared players on p99 to play alts..

Or masturbate alot

[Meldor]

<Taken> switched alliances out of FAT into Rampage, they had their chance and chose poorly. True Asgardians will not forget this treachery and will not accept Taken scum into our ranks, especially not en masse

Where is Asgard now? Obviously they made the right decision :D

[Spyder73]

.

[Spyder73]

Where is Asgard now? Obviously they made the right decision :D

Asgard is Aftermath dummy

[spanky_kc]

Irony that you guys got suspended for training around Eashen Hallway, when you sent in fraps of myself w/ an accidental train on franswa w/ no contesting targets and I got suspended. Reap what you sow. Just sucks that they did not suspend the person but the entire guild. Server is dumb now anyways. Hopefully when Pantheon comes out we will all be friends =P

But I agree 30 days is just plain dumb. I was quite excited for the return of Quean as well.

[mefdinkins]

30 days for some of the most geared players on p99 to play alts..

Or masturbate alot

I think the server is masturbating a lot already.

My plan is to not tell my wife that any outside force is limiting my dragon intake and let her believe I am choosing to watch some stupid movie with her or going to some show when I would normally want that free time to game with my homies in Awakened.

[Troxx]

let alone the cluster of resources when multiple guilds attempt to compete in ToV with only 1 choke point for dragons to go through after removing binds.

Here's a novel idea:

Leash NTOV dragons close to their spawn so people can't cheese pull Velious's main bosses to the zone line?

The "choke point" only exists because the players have chosen (or forced themselves mutually) to gimp it all by pulling everything to the zone in. Once again, this is just a SYMPTOM of the underlying problem that plagues the raid scene: pixel lust and man-child neck-bearding.

[Tura]

Not going to read through all the shit I'm sure this post contains, but just wanted to make an appearance to make a few points that will hopefully fall on some ears willing to listen.

1) Yes, 30 days is absurd and it's going to be rough. No, it's not the end of the world, or the end of us. Despite what most of you A/A haters believe, many of us do have families, jobs and other things outside of EQ that occupy our time. March=Spring Break, so at least there's that. We'll be fine. The real question is whether p99 is a server worth playing on anymore.

2) We're not perfect. I laughed and stopped reading this thread as soon as I saw the disparaging comments to Opmeter's apology. You guys can spin this any way you want, but the truth is that it was an honest mistake and 100% of what Opmeter said is true. These things happen commonly in ToV between A/A. The difference is that we don't petition each other over everything. Hell, if we do try to petition we get raid suspended for that anyway, too. Sorry to burst your bubble of the delusion that we sit at our computers 12 hours a day trying to screw other guilds over. I've watched many of our officers/members bend over backwards in most cases to extend an olive branch and work with other guilds.

3) We like competition. Sorry, but pulling and killing dragons on it's own is just not challenging. If you're in a guild where it's never been done, sure it's exciting for a short while, but trust me, it will lose its appeal and you will struggle to get people on to continue killing the same dragons in the same boring way.

Competition is healthy and despite a somewhat bitter rivalry between Awakened and Aftermath, it's the competition that drives us in most cases. But it would seem that this 'competition' is being choked out with +10day suspensions for just about anything GMs can find.

If I'm not mistaken, the only reason CSG even had a shot at Eashen was because A/A both had to concede it for tracker FTE. I hear so much complaining about the A/A duopoly of end game content, yet most of you in other guilds could compete in the exact same way if you wanted to.

Seems to me like a further push for a fully rotated raid scene.

[Legday]

My plan is to not tell my wife that any outside force is limiting my dragon intake and let her believe I am choosing to watch some stupid movie with her or going to some show when I would normally want that free time to game with my homies in Awakened.

That is the only play. Godspeed.

[Troxx]

Seriously though ... how much sever drama would be avoided and CSR intervention would become obsolete if you had to engage all TOV dragons close to spawn? Big guilds would have to decide if launching a full scale raid would be worth it for 1-2 minor named thus leaving it possibly open for others. Multiple raids would not be at risk for training each other (accidentally or otherwise) in fighting close to spawn.

This server has already implemented much less classic mechanisms. I'm pretty sure the Verant Devs intended you to fight ToV shit in the respective wing it spawns.

[Heebs13]

Seriously though ... how much sever drama would be avoided and CSR intervention would become obsolete if you had to engage all TOV dragons close to spawn? Big guilds would have to decide if launching a full scale raid would be worth it for 1-2 minor named thus leaving it possibly open for others. Multiple raids would not be at risk for training each other (accidentally or otherwise) in fighting close to spawn.

This server has already implemented much less classic mechanisms. I'm pretty sure the Verant Devs intended you to fight ToV shit in the respective wing it spawns.

People have been asking for this for a long time, and I'm pretty sure the bosses were rooted in their spawn rooms on live. What we have right now is NOT classic.

[Heebs13]

Root em all.
Do away with contrived "two trackers past zoneline" rule implemented for Kunark.

Done.

If I'm not mistaken they dropped 4-5 pieces per kill on live too, as opposed the 2-3 we have now. It made it more worth your time to crawl through ToV for a boss.

[RedXIII]

Pity reply.

Fingerz and Eratani nailed this.

Thanks for all my aftermeth pals and others who think this is way to much for something stupid. I mean, we concede the mob? You want me to pull it for you, DPS it down and make-up sex after?

I hope Rogean/Nilbog comes back to care about this server... Because sadly the GM's who deal with petition and raid stuff we got never raided in their lifes and have absolutely no fucking clue what they are doing.

A/A is the evil, anything else gets away with whatever they do. Killing mobs with no new FTE, stalling, kite, train... whatever you can do it ALL as long as you don't have a A/A guildtag.

To my Aftermeth pals, make me proud and dominate this 30days. When we back, lets tango again, its been fun! <3

[Tura]

your pull was dropped on us, intentional or not, Fesh was DROPPED on us, no one in awakened had agro and FTE on it anymore because Fesh FTE'ed our main tank while fighting eashen as soon as fesh got through the door. so someone flopped that dragon on our heads.

yes you conceded a lilbit after, but never bothered to talk to CSG about it AT ALL. so no, no one tried to work it out, with us.

accidents happen yes, but pulling a dragon into the camp of someone else while said dragon slaughters that entire raid is not an 'oops accident' and yer fine infraction. most of you guys logged out while it was rampaging through our camp with not much thought about getting him back to your own camp, or training him away from what i could see.

yer monk didn't know where your entire raid was? and pulled it anyway? i don't care if you guys fight him 1039109301577 times in 1 spot. you dont just assume it will always be the same, you KNOW where you are pulling a mob to before you tag shit so you can actually KILL it in said spot, especially when there were almost 300 people in the zone!!! YOU BE SURE!

Being ignorant of what is going on is not an excuse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZE6mHHSsbY

[Mockba1980]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZE6mHHSsbY

You need to upgrade your pentium 100 ! All these freeze blinded my eyes.

[JoeBob]

This time I'll AFK on TWO characters in your group!

Want to roll a group of 6 necromancers with me Lanuven and we can faceroll through content?

Tempting...

[Heebs13]

Wrong. NToV dragons dropped 2-3 in classic and Triplets dropped only 1-2. What you have is correct.

The issue is crawling NToV isn't worth it for individual dragons. However if the entire wing is up, crawling is very worth your time. Nerds can't contain themselves and allow his to occur though.

Well, correct beyond the fact that they aren't rooted.

[Loke]

Pity reply.

Fingerz and Eratani nailed this.

Thanks for all my aftermeth pals and others who think this is way to much for something stupid. I mean, we concede the mob? You want me to pull it for you, DPS it down and make-up sex after?

I hope Rogean/Nilbog comes back to care about this server... Because sadly the GM's who deal with petition and raid stuff we got never raided in their lifes and have absolutely no fucking clue what they are doing.

A/A is the evil, anything else gets away with whatever they do. Killing mobs with no new FTE, stalling, kite, train... whatever you can do it ALL as long as you don't have a A/A guildtag.

To my Aftermeth pals, make me proud and dominate this 30days. When we back, lets tango again, its been fun! <3

Never thought I'd agree with you about something, but think you hit the nail on the head here. I don't know how anyone expects the server policy or staff enforcement of it to get better, when the staff have made themselves immune to public criticism. I certainly had my occasional complaints back in the day when Rogean was running the show, but dude understood the game and always seemed to be seeking a fair resolution. He also actually rewarded guilds for working shit out, as opposed to rewarding them for running to him with all their problems.

His ego also wasn't so fragile that he had to institute a forum wide gag order.

Disclaimer: This was not meant to "bash" the current staff, but praise the previous staff. Also, if I am bashing anything, it is a policy, not the staff themselves.

[Tayy]

Imagine Vulak spawns, you clear right side to go kill him, with several other guilds tripping over each other and pulling on too of each other mind you.

Then Lord Koi spawns right before you engage Vulak....

OK everyone follow me back down and around and we will clear all the way to Koi! Oh hey guys looks like Guild A is going to go clear to Lord Koi so they can make an attempt on vulak without him summoning Koi during engage, let's sit at Vulak and when they pull and kill Koi we will engage Vulak.

Oh what's that Guild A? Your going to sit and wait now since we're waiting?

Okay we will statement until every other dragon has spawned and been killed and then statement again on the last mob that is still up with vulak.....

Yeah it's a nightmare however you want to look at it and it will continue to be until most of the top guilds leave or custom content draws people elsewhere.

[Tayy]

Statement = stalemate, damn auto correct

[Jameus]

I think the server is masturbating a lot already.

My plan is to not tell my wife that any outside force is limiting my dragon intake and let her believe I am choosing to watch some stupid movie with her or going to some show when I would normally want that free time to game with my homies in Awakened.

This is brilliant! She'll think you're being so selfless and shower you with affection ;)

[kotton05]

https://youtu.be/eZIVQ79mJ9I

leaving this here for anyone who questions the staffs decisions

[Vorkon]

Early ToV you had Rampage, Forsaken/Asgard and BDA in an absolute train fest at Eashan/Ikitair as guilds were tripping all each other trying to get to Aaryonar.

With updated rules, 2 trackers per wing, no one allowed past the stairs unless a mob is up. This is what you end up with. It was a little bit easier when Rampage was at LTK and F/A was at zone in. Due to changes though you now have everyone bottle-necked at the entrance and cubby's. Unless something major happens with how repops/respawns and raid rules are, I doubt you see any NToV crawls for mobs.

[MalystryxVoF]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZE6mHHSsbY

you fail to show me shouting TRAIN quite a few times before we all ran out warning you all, you also fail to show that several of yer guild mates were also at the bridge trying to FTE Dain there and interfered with our pull and that that is how our tagger got banished and eventually pulled the train back on our camp somehow.

anyhow, this is not even close to the same as your guild dropping fesh on us without any warning (that we did give you at dain, but chose to crop out). Your guildies all let you know to zone out before that train was even coming through the gates and only 3 of you guys died...
when fesh was dropped on us (remember that fresh FTE our MT got right away while tanking Eashen.. FRESH FTE... hence, fesh was dropped/flopped on us at the entrance as no awa had agro) our entire raid force was wiped out without warning.

also... yes you guys conceded after it happened. does that mean as long as you train others without warning and concede you should be fine and walk away with an "oops my bad we concede all is good now" ? no i do't think so. intentional or not.

[Legday]

when fesh was dropped on us (remember that fresh FTE our MT got right away while tanking Eashen.. FRESH FTE... hence, fesh was dropped/flopped on us at the entrance as no awa had agro) our entire raid force was wiped out without warning.

But didn't you guys get an explanation from AW, CR up and go about your uncontested day and kill Eashen? Let me know if I'm misunderstanding that.

[Spyder73]

But didn't you guys get an explanation from AW, CR up and go about your uncontested day and kill Eashen? Let me know if I'm misunderstanding that.

This is RnF Brainday - stop being logical and burn the witch

[MalystryxVoF]

no we did not receive any communications from Awa at all following that, only some tells from Aftermath along the lines of "did they really just drop that shit on you guys?"

so no, we did not. and eashen was not uncontested FYI. A/A might have conceded, but every other guild besides CSG was there as well trying to get it (with 1 small alliance whom also ended up conceding because they failed the pull and trained our CR'ing force again).

[Skew]

Word to the wise.
Rooting dragons would cause untold petitionquest due to full scale wipes from trains.
The leapfrogging when Velious went live was HARDCORE.
Casuals wont get a single kill. And if A/A struggle to control trains and adds , you can bet CSG wont have a clue how to play leap frog without wiping 300 people. = 10,20,30,40,50 day bans and much petition quest.

Just implement C/R/FFA already and let A/A do their thing and you scrubs do yours.

[Sonderbeast]

Keep the incremental increase in ban time.

Fix the obvious bottleneck problem.

[Legday]

Just implement C/R/FFA already and let A/A do their thing and you scrubs do yours.

The last thing that anybody wants is to wait for a casual guild to gather and kill a Class R Lady M so that Class C Vulak can die.

[Skew]

The last thing that anybody wants is to wait for a casual guild to gather and kill a Class R Lady M so that Class C Vulak can die.

hmm good point. As you were.

[Supreme]

since we are beyond whats classic...lets just go to instancing.

[Zemus]

anyhow, this is not even close to the same as your guild dropping fesh on us without any warning (that we did give you at dain, but chose to crop out). Your guildies all let you know to zone out before that train was even coming through the gates and only 3 of you guys died...
when fesh was dropped on us (remember that fresh FTE our MT got right away while tanking Eashen.. FRESH FTE... hence, fesh was dropped/flopped on us at the entrance as no awa had agro) our entire raid force was wiped out without warning.

also... yes you guys conceded after it happened. does that mean as long as you train others without warning and concede you should be fine and walk away with an "oops my bad we concede all is good now" ? no i do't think so. intentional or not.

Listen,

Sorry Fesh got dropped on your raid due to miscommunication on our part. Mistakes happen trying to coordinate a bunch of people. It could have cost you Eashen too as there were other raid entities outside of A/A there that morning going for it. In the end you got your kill. We did what we know to be the proper response and conceded the all the mobs in question. Had something spawned during your recovery we woudl have conceded that too. Don't know what you really wanted from us after the fact, we have zero control of the other raid entities trying to kill Eashen.

Anyway, throw down a petition because reasons and we get poped with 30 days off. Super.

[Erati]

But didn't you guys get an explanation from AW, CR up and go about your uncontested day and kill Eashen? Let me know if I'm misunderstanding that.

It literally doesnt make a difference anymore, petitions go in secretly and no guilds communicate outside of A/A. Its all about what you can get video of evil A/A doing regardless whether the server rules are followed or not, if feelings are hurt you cant fix those so gotta punish over hundred people by not allowing them to raid together for a calendar month.

What a joke, fix the rules before more guilds get run into the ground bc of inconsistency.

[Skew]

since we are beyond whats classic...lets just go to instancing.

Woulda gone to Agnarr if wanted that rubbish. This is still the best classic EQ server out there. No CSR would be better at this rate. Grind it out over 1 mob for 10 hours rather than get a 40 day ban for nothing.

Important question as this wasnt posted anywhere about the raid ban increases :
Is there a cap to this? Or can we get to 100 day ban eventually ?

[Nexii]

The last thing that anybody wants is to wait for a casual guild to gather and kill a Class R Lady M so that Class C Vulak can die.

Under such a system all of NTOV should be class C

[Legday]

That's why you have Class R NToV as a whole. You know... as it's intended to be done.

See I doubt Class C would ever sign off on that. What you would have is an earthquake on day 1, regular respawns on day 8 (say its class R's turn), and generally casual attitude towards not bothering with overnight spawns, etc. would cause class C's turn on day 15 to be windows spread out across 2-3 days.

[Tura]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZE6mHHSsbY

you fail to show me shouting TRAIN quite a few times before we all ran out warning you all, you also fail to show that several of yer guild mates were also at the bridge trying to FTE Dain there and interfered with our pull and that that is how our tagger got banished and eventually pulled the train back on our camp somehow.

anyhow, this is not even close to the same as your guild dropping fesh on us without any warning (that we did give you at dain, but chose to crop out). Your guildies all let you know to zone out before that train was even coming through the gates and only 3 of you guys died...
when fesh was dropped on us (remember that fresh FTE our MT got right away while tanking Eashen.. FRESH FTE... hence, fesh was dropped/flopped on us at the entrance as no awa had agro) our entire raid force was wiped out without warning.

also... yes you guys conceded after it happened. does that mean as long as you train others without warning and concede you should be fine and walk away with an "oops my bad we concede all is good now" ? no i do't think so. intentional or not.

The point is that shit happens. It happens to every guild. God, if I could find the videos of CSG flailing themselves around in Fear Plane and managing to train every camp in the zone....But we still wouldn't petition those instances, because there's no point. Players make mistakes and it's just a part of the game. We didn't petition you for bringing guards to ZL at Dain because its not worth it getting into that kinda stuff. Look at our guild chat...do you see a bunch on people in all caps crying to one another about the injustice of it all?

You can screech on all you want about how Fesh was dropped on you - insinuating it was intentional, but it wasn't 'flopped' on you. Opmeter already clarified what happened earlier.

[Culkasi]

What about a guild leaves the zone when they break the rules? That seems much better than conceding a mob, and then still shitting up the zone for the other guilds. Actually, that seems like a very sane way to deal with it. So when AA conceded Eashen, go kill some of the other mobs, and make sure you don't break the rules in ToV next time you want to kill something there.

Result. Everyone follows the rules, and noone has to deal with shittery whilst killing mobs.

[Legday]

It literally doesnt make a difference anymore, petitions go in secretly and no guilds communicate outside of A/A. Its all about what you can get video of evil A/A doing regardless whether the server rules are followed or not, if feelings are hurt you cant fix those so gotta punish over hundred people by not allowing them to raid together for a calendar month.

What a joke, fix the rules before more guilds get run into the ground bc of inconsistency.

That is the point I was trying to help our CSG friend towards. They should have just taken what happened at face value, accepted whatever you or another leader told their reps, and everybody carried on. Like A/A would.

Based on my interactions with CSG leadership during any sort of raid dispute, there is a huge overarching theme of CSG assuming everything we do is trying to game them. It makes it basically impossible to work with them since they put you in a position of being forced to accept some sort of responsibility on something bogus (like them trying to say you trained them with Fesh on purpose). Idk if it went down like that and I haven't dealt with CSG leadership in months, but just a hunch...

[Erati]

What about a guild leaves the zone when they break the rules? That seems much better than conceding a mob, and then still shitting up the zone for the other guilds. Actually, that seems like a very sane way to deal with it. So when AA conceded Eashen, go kill some of the other mobs, and make sure you don't break the rules in ToV next time you want to kill something there.

Result. Everyone follows the rules, and noone has to deal with shittery whilst killing mobs.

Enjoy scoring a petitionquest win, I appreciate your guilds not informing us that you felt conceding the mobs were not enough and wanted more justice. You have my skype, next time let us know that you are going to do that and we will return the favor.

At this point though, I dont know if we can even consider talking to you guys about anything with this kind of thing thrown at us.

Good job, makes all the /tells I was getting about a CSG/AW PoG event to better relations a big joke.

[Skew]

C/R/FFA wouldnt work if you use NTOV as one mob thinking about it.

Staff also have to consider some element of game theory here. When punishments become so severe , you lose the ability to control. If people quit or get banned for 50 days raiding , theyre going to start ignoring your authority. Too much stick and not enough carrot isnt a good mix.
New guilds will get formed etc.
Sure , you can go through each player and ban each a/c , but thats a whole new can of spaghetti and thats what will probably end up happening if the bans continue to be incremental.

Maybe thats the idea?

[Culkasi]

Enjoy scoring a petitionquest win, I appreciate your guilds not informing us that you felt conceding the mobs were not enough and wanted more justice. You have my skype, next time let us know that you are going to do that and we will return the favor.

At this point though, I dont know if we can even consider talking to you guys about anything with this kind of thing thrown at us.

Good job, makes all the /tells I was getting about a CSG/AW PoG event to better relations a big joke.

Honestly, I couldn't give a rats arse about the 30 day ban or the petitionquest. I think you will find most in CSG thinks that. But apparently its the only language you guys are willing to listen to. For years I have tried to talk to A/A leadership about allowing more space for casual guilds on P99, and everytime I have been told "Nope". And everytime we ask you guys to place nice when we are in the zone, you have told us "learn to petition". Now we have petitiond, and its also a problem? I honestly don't really know what you want anymore, apart from being able to rotate all the contat with Aftermath without casual scum ruining the parada (shame that narrowly got voted down yeah?).

All we ask for is to be able to kill a cpl of mobs per week without having to deal with trains and other shithattery - the only way we seem to be able to get that, is via petitionquest. That is your choice, not ours.

[Culkasi]

contat = content

[Culkasi]

and place = play - apart from that, great typing Culkasi!

[topgun1027]

GM's should post the evidence attached to the 30 day or w/e ruling of what happened so we can all see.

I know that I have been wrongfully suspended for kiting in fear without proof. Just logs of mob X was last aggroed on you and went to person XX because person XX aggroed your train somehow, shit happens there are honest people out there that cannot control game mechanics all the time / other people messing around with their trains / mobs.

Opmeter is a good person and anyone questioning that does not know him. So don't judge people you don't know with bs.

30 days is just ridiculous. No guild suspension should be that long.

[beversami]

That is the point I was trying to help our CSG friend towards. They should have just taken what happened at face value, accepted whatever you or another leader told their reps, and everybody carried on. Like A/A would.

Based on my interactions with CSG leadership during any sort of raid dispute, there is a huge overarching theme of CSG assuming everything we do is trying to game them. It makes it basically impossible to work with them since they put you in a position of being forced to accept some sort of responsibility on something bogus (like them trying to say you trained them with Fesh on purpose). Idk if it went down like that and I haven't dealt with CSG leadership in months, but just a hunch...

Huh, I wonder why.

[Erati]

Honestly, I couldn't give a rats arse about the 30 day ban or the petitionquest. I think you will find most in CSG thinks that. But apparently its the only language you guys are willing to listen to. For years I have tried to talk to A/A leadership about allowing more space for casual guilds on P99, and everytime I have been told "Nope". And everytime we ask you guys to place nice when we are in the zone, you have told us "learn to petition". Now we have petitiond, and its also a problem? I honestly don't really know what you want anymore, apart from being able to rotate all the contat with Aftermath without casual scum ruining the parada (shame that narrowly got voted down yeah?).

All we ask for is to be able to kill a cpl of mobs per week without having to deal with trains and other shithattery - the only way we seem to be able to get that, is via petitionquest. That is your choice, not ours.


No it is your choice to add a 'grieveance' petition after the rules were properly followed. The theme of my fellow AW posters in this thread is simple: What more should we have done? I have yet to really see an answer because it seems the moment this accident ( that has been apologized for by OPmeter) occurred we had no way to correct it.

Your response here is very tellsing, basically its your 'just desserts' for years of 'bad things' but how in the world is that suppose to be viable for guilds to correct mistakes and move forward for the better. It seems grudges are the main theme in this raid scene and while everyone wants to say the right thing to each other, all we really do is scan hours of Everquest fraps footage looking for any disturbances in the matrix.

There is no justice being served here, what rule was broken that had no correct follow up action to warrant a month off? All the answers to this question involve previous accepted norms when it comes to interactions between A/A and any other guild. We are not bad guys, we simply raid more than anyone else. When you raid more, more shit tends to happen bc Everquest happens. P99 will forever be remembered as Petition99, which is pretty sad tbh.

[Culkasi]

No it is your choice to add a 'grieveance' petition after the rules were properly followed. The theme of my fellow AW posters in this thread is simple: What more should we have done? I have yet to really see an answer because it seems the moment this accident ( that has been apologized for by OPmeter) occurred we had no way to correct it.

Your response here is very tellsing, basically its your 'just desserts' for years of 'bad things' but how in the world is that suppose to be viable for guilds to correct mistakes and move forward for the better. It seems grudges are the main theme in this raid scene and while everyone wants to say the right thing to each other, all we really do is scan hours of Everquest fraps footage looking for any disturbances in the matrix.

There is no justice being served here, what rule was broken that had no correct follow up action to warrant a month off? All the answers to this question involve previous accepted norms when it comes to interactions between A/A and any other guild. We are not bad guys, we simply raid more than anyone else. When you raid more, more shit tends to happen bc Everquest happens. P99 will forever be remembered as Petition99, which is pretty sad tbh.

I told you - when you fuck up, leave the zone. Go raid somewhere else. You have also in the past (You being A/A) tried with "we concede Trakanon for 30 minutes" and such bullshit. Basically, if you screw other peopel over and waste their time, leave the zone until the raid mobs are down.

I am not asking for the world, I am just asking you to concede that P99 should have room for people that don't enjoy playing the fast shoot fast trigger game you do - instead of forcing us to go down this route (and you have, if not personally, I can't even begin to count all the times A/A officers have told me "if its a problem, file a petition", and now that we are doing that, its ALSO a problem) - what are we supposed to do?

[Vorkon]

Its just a difference of cultures, A/A pretty much have to deal with each other on a raid to raid basis, so when either of them screw up, they usually get into tells and work out some sort of agreement so it doesn't become a petition issue. While I wouldn't say the relationship is great, there is communication between them to work things out and come to some sort of compromise.

Usually like a "we screwed this up so you can have the next 2-4 of x_raidtarget uncontested by us".

Basically 2 nuclear powered entities with a direct phone line to each other that doesn't require the outside powers to mediate (for the most part, sometimes agreements cant be worked and the petitionquest happens). Now you have another guild(s) added to the equation that doesn't have the same communication styles or speed dial to the other guilds to work things out and it immediately goes to petition quest. When AW pulled the 'AW concedes" on Fesh, After Eashan was zooted out, there should have been a concerted effort by leadership from both AW/CSG to work out some sort of additional concession agreement instead of petitioning.

Personally I think that guild suspensions should max out at 20 days, suspend the individual members who caused the issue/train on an incrementally increasing days off (20/40/60days,etc) and try to limit the power of the pull teams.

As it stands right now, With AW sitting at a 30day, AM will likely eat a 30 day on their next infraction, there is no real reason for the non A/A guilds to try and work things out.

[Skew]

Petition should all be made on the raid forum in a public manner so everyone can see whenever a petition is made and for what.

Also , CSG have been given so many bones its funny listening to Culkasi complain about not getting room for the little guy. You were literally just handed a free Eashan and then petitioned 1 of the guilds that messaged you to come kill it. You think youre going to get a better response from A/A leaders now? Shady shit bro.

[Culkasi]

Wants free mobs. A/A tells them No.
Petitions already free mob for more mobs.

Sounds about right.

I don't think CSG (now being Europa and Omni) will get much out of this 30 day ban, and I am okay with that - I also think 30 day is a bit harsh really. But I have learned long ago that dialogue with A/A leadership leads to nothing, so if they can't even leave us alone to kill a mob they have already conceded because of breaking the rules, then yeah, ban is in order. The reason for 30 days? I imagnie uncountable number of bans in the past cpl of years, things add up - stop getting in situations where bans are possible?

We never ask for any guild to be banned, we always ask to be left alone when we once in a while target a mob. This was one of those times, and this time we got rolled over by a guild who doesn't care, because they had to kill a mob they also don't really care for after having killed hundreds of times, because of some desire to "win" over another guild who has also killed it hundreds of times.....that was a 90 minute waste of 50-60 peoples time - the number of man hours there is staggering.

Call them wellfare pixels, call it an investment, call it whatever you want - let the casaul guilds on P99 see some content without having to play like you do, and I am sure you will only get each other banned going forward.

[Erati]

I told you - when you fuck up, leave the zone. Go raid somewhere else. You have also in the past (You being A/A) tried with "we concede Trakanon for 30 minutes" and such bullshit. Basically, if you screw other peopel over and waste their time, leave the zone until the raid mobs are down.

I am not asking for the world, I am just asking you to concede that P99 should have room for people that don't enjoy playing the fast shoot fast trigger game you do - instead of forcing us to go down this route (and you have, if not personally, I can't even begin to count all the times A/A officers have told me "if its a problem, file a petition", and now that we are doing that, its ALSO a problem) - what are we supposed to do?

Nothing here explains why you didnt come to us when you know the GMs love suspending A/A and typically we offer whatever is needed to not have petitions put in when we fuck up. This is a large slap in the face to my entire community and we have you and CSG to thank. Cannot believe I have wasted time trying to deal with you guys in the past, total sucker for thinking it would create an open line of communication for the future for when stuff like this arises. Not a single message was sent to me that this was something CSG was seeking, total joke of a justice system where the guilty parties do not even know they are being thrown in jail until they wake up behind bars.

[Spyder73]

When two guilds have made a conscious decisions that they are going to go after every single raid mob, every single cycle, every single week, what would you recommend the staff do to persuade you to let some others enjoy raid content and stop gearing your 4th alt? What others guilds outside of A/A raid every single raid monsters every single week? Answer - None. Response - Sirken discouraging farming content for the sake of farming content

[Culkasi]

Also, "conceding" doesn't work in a 3+ guild environment. A/A can just concede the next 2-4 of whatever when they screw up because the other guild will accept that with 99.9% certainty they will be killing said mob on the next 2-4 cycles. If Awakened concedes Feshlak, what the fuck does that do for CSG? Tell me the odds of CSG killing even one of the next 2-4 Feshlaks that Aftermath know Awakened has conceded.
No, thats right, I thought so.

[Legday]

We never ask for any guild to be banned

Did you think your petition would cause Sirken to throw Awakened an ice cream party?

[Jimjam]

Keep the incremental increase in ban time.

Fix the obvious bottleneck problem.

It basically becomes a rotation once every guild but one is banned at any point in time!

[Baler]

Did you think your petition would cause Sirken to throw Awakened an ice cream party?

pizza party with bloomin onions confirmed. :eek:

[Check12345]

So on the day this went down, did Culk ask AW to leave ToV?

[Vorkon]

Also, "conceding" doesn't work in a 3+ guild environment.
No, thats right, I thought so.

Its working in VP with A/A/PS, which admittedly has some different nuances but still working.

so...

[Culkasi]

Nothing here explains why you didnt come to us when you know the GMs love suspending A/A and typically we offer whatever is needed to not have petitions put in when we fuck up. This is a large slap in the face to my entire community and we have you and CSG to thank. Cannot believe I have wasted time trying to deal with you guys in the past, total sucker for thinking it would create an open line of communication for the future for when stuff like this arises. Not a single message was sent to me that this was something CSG was seeking, total joke of a justice system where the guilty parties do not even know they are being thrown in jail until they wake up behind bars.

Everytime I have reached out to you, I have gotten a "sorry, all we can co is condede the next 2-4 mobs, that Aftermath will then kill" answer - why is that a door I need to keep knocking? I reached out to you about something 6 months ago (not raid infraction related), you told me you would talk with officers about it and get back to me, and decided not to.
I get that its a large slap to the community, and I quite frankly hate it - but its on you as a leader Eratani. You and the other officers. You, and the Aftermath officers, have told us time and time again, that this is the ONLY way to play on P99. No exceptions, no gifts, no "wellfare" - this and this alone "learn to compete, learn to petitionquest".

I think its shit that most of your members who just log on for the pixels gets banged for 30 days because Kelz couldn't control a train, I really do. But it doesn't change the fact that we had casual people wasting 90 man hours because it happened, and no matter how much you concede, it makes zero difference to us, because Aftermath will just kill it. I think there are a lot of really nice people in Awakened, but you are part of a raid scene that you have chosen to be part of, that effectively locks 95% of the server population out of raid content.
There are a lot of former Europa in Awakened I still consider friends, and that I hate will now have to spend 30 days on the sidelines, but they knew they joined a guild where this can happen, and by history, happens quite frequently. I am not proud of it, I am not even happy about it - but you taught me that this is how to play on P99 - show me another way?

[Endonde]

No it is your choice to add a 'grieveance' petition after the rules were properly followed. The theme of my fellow AW posters in this thread is simple: What more should we have done? I have yet to really see an answer because it seems the moment this accident ( that has been apologized for by OPmeter) occurred we had no way to correct it.

Your response here is very tellsing, basically its your 'just desserts' for years of 'bad things' but how in the world is that suppose to be viable for guilds to correct mistakes and move forward for the better. It seems grudges are the main theme in this raid scene and while everyone wants to say the right thing to each other, all we really do is scan hours of Everquest fraps footage looking for any disturbances in the matrix.

There is no justice being served here, what rule was broken that had no correct follow up action to warrant a month off? All the answers to this question involve previous accepted norms when it comes to interactions between A/A and any other guild. We are not bad guys, we simply raid more than anyone else. When you raid more, more shit tends to happen bc Everquest happens. P99 will forever be remembered as Petition99, which is pretty sad tbh.

Just to play devil's advocate here, just because awakened conceded fesh Doesn't mean csg isn't screwed over. Even if awakened conceded csg could lose both the mob they were engaged with and the mob that was conceded, so the guild that loses the most is the one who did nothing wrong.

3 guilds at entrance is bad.

[Culkasi]

So on the day this went down, did Culk ask AW to leave ToV?

Culk wasn't around that day, but its a question been raised many times in the past, both in conversations with leadership and staff, and also on 1-2-1 basis, though not with Eratani to be fair to him.

[Foxplay]

Well p99 is so min/max that guilds would rather have complicated rules and restrictions to how they can engage raid targets so they can pull them in ways never done on classic servers (least not on any I remember) so they can have dragons dead in a few minutes rather than a few hours, which is understandable but it definitely causes situations like this and many others as people have said mistakes happen ppl screw up. This isn't to say they are not responsible... Intended or unintentionally training is training you don't get out of a car wreck just because you didn't mean to plow into a Honda Civic with your Ford F150

Personally I'd rather spawn variance taken out (it's not classic goes against the intent of the server) Then make zone disruption rules for ToV stating no merbs can be pulled outside the wing they originated from (zone in and 4way can't be trained) or impose the non classic era root the dragons patch

[Sonderbeast]

It basically becomes a rotation once every guild but one is banned at any point in time!

I think we found Baler's solution right here.

[Wfrench1234]

This is kinda funny. In the “healthy raid scene” thread I mentioned that if you ever have a problem with PS just talk to us we will do whatever it takes to make things right, we are reasonable, and a 9 month old mistake got brought up and our guild got dragged thru the RNF mud. Now I see you guys making the same statement and are surprised that you are getting the same kind of response.

[Argh]

What more should we have done?

Probably should have conceded one of your rotated mobs. You trained a guild while killing a target--thats about the most egregious offense that can be made regardless of whether it was a mistake or not.

If you train someone, and don't reach out to them and make a deal to squash the petition, expect to be petitioned. How long has it worked like this now, three years now?

[Erati]

Just to play devil's advocate here, just because awakened conceded fesh Doesn't mean csg isn't screwed over. Even if awakened conceded csg could lose both the mob they were engaged with and the mob that was conceded, so the guild that loses the most is the one who did nothing wrong.

3 guilds at entrance is bad.

The point is, what more can we be done when:

A. Concede all mobs that we messed up on
B. Do not know CSG elevated the issue to petition
C. Do not control the will of the other guilds competing for Eashen
D. Am not allowed to then pull Eashen ( a mob we conceded ) to help 'make up' for potentially costing them a kill.
E. Am not allowed to then DPS Eashen ( a mob we conceded ) to help 'make up' for potentially costing them a kill.
F. If we offer 2 Feshlak and 2 Eashen, as Culk says, AM will simply kill them how does that help CSG

So nice attempt Endonde :P

[Csihar]

Maybe now is the time to actually talk to each other. Outside of the RNF swamp. As long as the intention is to understand where each person is coming from.

[smitho1984]

Also, "conceding" doesn't work in a 3+ guild environment. A/A can just concede the next 2-4 of whatever when they screw up because the other guild will accept that with 99.9% certainty they will be killing said mob on the next 2-4 cycles. If Awakened concedes Feshlak, what the fuck does that do for CSG? Tell me the odds of CSG killing even one of the next 2-4 Feshlaks that Aftermath know Awakened has conceded.
No, thats right, I thought so.

You have the biggest guild on the server.. combine already and step up. Quit playing this meak "we cant compete mentality", its getting old at this point. Play like you have a set of balls, it's sad they call you a leader.

[Check12345]

Culk wasn't around that day, but its a question been raised many times in the past, both in conversations with leadership and staff, and also on 1-2-1 basis, though not with Eratani to be fair to him.

So there was nothing else AW could have done for this incident then?

I’m just baffled why a ‘let’s get them suspended’ petition went in other than spite.

Well they sure showed us!

Jeepers Scoob!

[Breaken]

As usual, CSG has no clue what is going on, but staff babies them.

1) We didn't flop Feshlak on you. Wow, you got an FTE message, so we must have! Or, the actual incident, that our tagger died and he then went for the next person. Heads up, our tagger wasn't an FD'able class. So, check that off your list.

2) Kelzaraz had nothing to do with this train. See above.

3) I didn't know it was Awakened's fault that the raid rules do not cater to 3+ raid guilds. Server rules state that if you train someone, you concede. We did just that. Apparently, that isn't enough, even though the rules say it is.

[Argh]

Good to see the old Taken braintrust is still braindead.

[Baler]

lol at these AW or AM people talking shit about csg.
just sad.

[thebutthat]

30 days is just ridiculous. No guild suspension should be that long.

After watching Sirken's last stream, there's no reasoning with him. He wants guilds to crawl through ToV to dragons. So anytime someone isn't doing it that way, and there's any minor or major infraction, there will be a raid ban. Eventually they'll 60 day ban the entire raid scene and it'll be Lord Bob running the show with their open raid nights, everyone will hold hands...and all will be merry. Until sirken gets bored and raid bans them because there alliance name violates the naming policy.

[Legday]

So there was nothing else AW could have done for this incident then?

I’m just baffled why a ‘let’s get them suspended’ petition went in other than spite.

Well they sure showed us!

Jeepers Scoob!

I think CSG actually thought petitions lead to ice cream parties, so not sure if you're serious or not.

[Culkasi]

So there was nothing else AW could have done for this incident then?

I’m just baffled why a ‘let’s get them suspended’ petition went in other than spite.

Well they sure showed us!

Jeepers Scoob!

Awakened could have not been there in the first place (left zone after conceding)
Awakened could have waited to pull Feshlak till after CSG had killed Eashen and vacated the space
Awakened could have done the two above on the countless times variations of this has happened in the past
Awakened could have been more open to not have 2 guilds kill 95% of the raid content for months and months on end.

You are right. After the train, Awakened couldn't do much - damage already done, a lot of our casual people wasted 90 minutes of their time, and Awakened doesn't really have anything to offer to recompense that - they don't "own" any content they could give us, and as Eratani says they are not allowed to help us with Eashen.

[Endonde]

The point is, what more can we be done when:

A. Concede all mobs that we messed up on
B. Do not know CSG elevated the issue to petition
C. Do not control the will of the other guilds competing for Eashen
D. Am not allowed to then pull Eashen ( a mob we conceded ) to help 'make up' for potentially costing them a kill.
E. Am not allowed to then DPS Eashen ( a mob we conceded ) to help 'make up' for potentially costing them a kill.
F. If we offer 2 Feshlak and 2 Eashen, as Culk says, AM will simply kill them how does that help CSG

So nice attempt Endonde :P

Offer them your next rotated fesh, or if fesh isn't rotated pick another mob. Didn't tmo do exactly this for taken one time back in kunark on a vs? Solutions exist you just have to actually try to find them.

I still love you eratani and 30 days is a bit harsh, but it really shouldn't be so hard to play nice with each other

[Baler]

AW and AM treat other guilds like shit in game
AW and AM treat other guilds like shit on the forums.

[Erati]

Probably should have conceded one of your rotated mobs. You trained a guild while killing a target--thats about the most egregious offense that can be made regardless of whether it was a mistake or not.

If you train someone, and don't reach out to them and make a deal to squash the petition, expect to be petitioned. How long has it worked like this now, three years now?

You dont raid Argh, I dont expect you understand how things work. Guilds do not offer things until they are told 'we are going to petition this', its not the other way around. Maybe in some dramatically different situations, people reach out before even told a petition will occur but 99.9999999% of the time when GuildB has a grievance to file with GuildA, its GuildB who lets GuildA know "pay up or else".

Dont let your blind hatred for me bc of FAP blind your bias opinion though Argh, stay classy :P

[Culkasi]

You have the biggest guild on the server.. combine already and step up. Quit playing this meak "we cant compete mentality", its getting old at this point. Play like you have a set of balls, it's sad they call you a leader.

Its not that we "can't" compete - its that we won't, especially in the current envronment. We just want to be left alone killing a cpl of targets from time to time in a casual EQ setting.
And you should know that its not about 150 warm bodies, its about 10 people willing to dedicate a lot more time to the game than what we can expect across a couple of casual guilds.

[Erati]

Offer them your next rotated fesh, or if fesh isn't rotated pick another mob. Didn't tmo do exactly this for taken one time back in kunark on a vs? Solutions exist you just have to actually try to find them.

I still love you eratani and 30 days is a bit harsh, but it really shouldn't be so hard to play nice with each other

Yes, TMO reached out to us and we worked out a deal.

See a theme?

[Erati]

Yes, TMO reached out to us and we worked out a deal.

See a theme?

Meant to add 'after they saw our fraps' because before that they refused to talk to us.

[Endonde]

Yes, TMO reached out to us and we worked out a deal.

See a theme?

Yep the offending guild reached out and made a deal.

[Baler]

From my understanding of the raid scene on p99. You gotta have lawyer quest on speed dial. Can't hate on eu for not wanting to be involved in some maniacal behavior just to get pixels. Speaks good things about their character.

[topgun1027]

After watching Sirken's last stream, there's no reasoning with him. He wants guilds to crawl through ToV to dragons. So anytime someone isn't doing it that way, and there's any minor or major infraction, there will be a raid ban. Eventually they'll 60 day ban the entire raid scene and it'll be Lord Bob running the show with their open raid nights, everyone will hold hands...and all will be merry. Until sirken gets bored and raid bans them because there alliance name violates the naming policy.

time for new GMs )

[Teako]

Also, "conceding" doesn't work in a 3+ guild environment. A/A can just concede the next 2-4 of whatever when they screw up because the other guild will accept that with 99.9% certainty they will be killing said mob on the next 2-4 cycles. If Awakened concedes Feshlak, what the fuck does that do for CSG? Tell me the odds of CSG killing even one of the next 2-4 Feshlaks that Aftermath know Awakened has conceded.
No, thats right, I thought so.

I'm not sure what exactly you're wanting in return. Should they give you mobs not relevant to the one in question in turn for wronging you? Are you expecting an entirely different guild to concede it to you as well?

It seems that in this situation you've set it to up to be an unwinnable situation for negotiation. You don't accept concessions because the other guild will kill it because "3 way environment" - but there is no other way forward other than concessions in attempts to work things out with other guilds.

Are you wanting both Aftermath, and Awakened to concede targets to you if one guild does something wrong? What exactly are you wanting as an outcome/solution?

[Breaken]

Awakened could have not been there in the first place (left zone after conceding)
Awakened could have waited to pull Feshlak till after CSG had killed Eashen and vacated the space
Awakened could have done the two above on the countless times variations of this has happened in the past
Awakened could have been more open to not have 2 guilds kill 95% of the raid content for months and months on end.


CSG took how many hours to mobilize for Eashen? How long would you have liked us to leave? Eashen isn't the only mob in that zone. If this was DN, and we conceded Zlandicar, we would have left. Stop being dumb.

We set up camp elsewhere in order to pull Feshlak. Our pull failed. Question, why was CSG using the entrance? Aren't you opposed to that? At least Awakened used a cubby.

[Nommis]

I don't think CSG (now being Europa and Omni) will get much out of this 30 day ban, and I am okay with that - I also think 30 day is a bit harsh really. But I have learned long ago that dialogue with A/A leadership leads to nothing, so if they can't even leave us alone to kill a mob they have already conceded because of breaking the rules, then yeah, ban is in order. The reason for 30 days? I imagnie uncountable number of bans in the past cpl of years, things add up - stop getting in situations where bans are possible?

We never ask for any guild to be banned, we always ask to be left alone when we once in a while target a mob. This was one of those times, and this time we got rolled over by a guild who doesn't care, because they had to kill a mob they also don't really care for after having killed hundreds of times, because of some desire to "win" over another guild who has also killed it hundreds of times.....that was a 90 minute waste of 50-60 peoples time - the number of man hours there is staggering.

Call them wellfare pixels, call it an investment, call it whatever you want - let the casaul guilds on P99 see some content without having to play like you do, and I am sure you will only get each other banned going forward.

https://i.imgur.com/iLYf2NM.png

[Argh]

Yep the offending guild reached out and made a deal.

[Baler]

This thread is going fast.
https://i.imgur.com/fOKeaK9.gif

[Breaken]

Q3: If we feel our own guild/party has violated a rule, what actions should we take?
A: If you screw up, then you should concede the mob you screwed up on.

[Baler]

Wasted more than 90 minutes of your own time trying to split triples the other day that no one interfered with.

https://i.imgur.com/XymENA0.gif

[Batso]

Its not that we "can't" compete - its that we won't, especially in the current envronment. We just want to be left alone killing a cpl of targets from time to time in a casual EQ setting.
And you should know that its not about 150 warm bodies, its about 10 people willing to dedicate a lot more time to the game than what we can expect across a couple of casual guilds.

Why is your team special?

[Spyder73]

I dont expect you understand how things work. Guilds do not offer things until they are told 'we are going to petition this', its not the other way around.

Sounds like you are saying extortion on P99 is the normal response? Raid scene totally Normal and Cool

[Nexii]

The point is, what more can we be done when:

A. Concede all mobs that we messed up on
B. Do not know CSG elevated the issue to petition
C. Do not control the will of the other guilds competing for Eashen
D. Am not allowed to then pull Eashen ( a mob we conceded ) to help 'make up' for potentially costing them a kill.
E. Am not allowed to then DPS Eashen ( a mob we conceded ) to help 'make up' for potentially costing them a kill.
F. If we offer 2 Feshlak and 2 Eashen, as Culk says, AM will simply kill them how does that help CSG

So nice attempt Endonde :P

But you could offer to do something joint with CSG in the future and give them a loot or two. There's stuff that's rotated that can be guaranteed. Conceding is like the least you can do especially when training an engaged guild can cost them the mob.

[mefdinkins]

You are right. After the train, Awakened couldn't do much - damage already done, a lot of our casual people wasted 90 minutes of their time, and Awakened doesn't really have anything to offer to recompense that - they don't "own" any content they could give us, and as Eratani says they are not allowed to help us with Eashen.

Lol "wasted 90 minutes of your time." When Awakened or Aftermath is the only guild in PoF we clear golems, draco, and CT in like 30-45 minutes. When CSG is in there it's a god damn nightmare, wipes on wipes, golems running around DTing people, mobs brought into summoning range aggroing everything it's a complete joke. I didn't know we could go to some time bank for justice.

Also one wipe to Eashen caused you to be delayed 90 minutes?!

[trite]

Awakened could have not been there in the first place (left zone after conceding)
Awakened could have waited to pull Feshlak till after CSG had killed Eashen and vacated the space
Awakened could have done the two above on the countless times variations of this has happened in the past
Awakened could have been more open to not have 2 guilds kill 95% of the raid content for months and months on end.

You are right. After the train, Awakened couldn't do much - damage already done, a lot of our casual people wasted 90 minutes of their time, and Awakened doesn't really have anything to offer to recompense that - they don't "own" any content they could give us, and as Eratani says they are not allowed to help us with Eashen.

wasted 90 minutes of your time on a weekend afternoon !?!? you just got 100+ players suspended from this game for 30 days after you got free stuff!......awakened had the power to give you virtually uncontested content they rotated with aftermath.

But having the staff rewrite the rules to give the harshest penalty of the velious era after the infraction occurred benefits you more i guess huh.... the rewriting of the rules after the fact to make it unnecessary to reach out and also increase the duration of the penalty is the most messed up part of this situation

[Culkasi]

Wasted more than 90 minutes of your own time trying to split triples the other day that no one interfered with.

Pretty sure that was AG and nothing really to do with the current itteration of CSG.

[Breaken]

No, Anon/Blood Guard training them exactly as we did caused extra time. I wonder, will they be suspended also? They did exact same thing. Brought Feshlak to entrance instead of their cubby camp.

[Baler]

Pretty sure that was AG and nothing really to do with the current itteration of CSG.

still waiting on that official statement from nemce. :rolleyes:

[Argh]

You dont raid Argh, I dont expect you understand how things work.

Clearly you don't have a great grasp on how things work, or you wouldn't be suspended for the next 30 days because you couldn't reach a deal to avoid a petition.

[Culkasi]

still waiting on that official statement from nemce. :rolleyes:

Think you have to go to TAKP to get that unfortunately :(

[Breaken]

So, the argument of why Awakened deserves to be suspended is because Awakened didn't go above and beyond the raid rules? Next time someone concedes a mob, we should just petition and state that the guild didn't offer to walk away from their computers for 24 hours? Great logic.

[Culkasi]

Lol "wasted 90 minutes of your time." When Awakened or Aftermath is the only guild in PoF we clear golems, draco, and CT in like 30-45 minutes. When CSG is in there it's a god damn nightmare, wipes on wipes, golems running around DTing people, mobs brought into summoning range aggroing everything it's a complete joke. !

I mean, when CSG is in there, you could also just go and kill another of the 30 mobs you are killing that week and let us learn how to play better, and have some good casual fun wtih our friends, instead of killing your 461th golem and selling another Soul Leech for MQ plats?

[Spyder73]

No, Anon/Blood Guard training them exactly as we did caused extra time. I wonder, will they be suspended also? They did exact same thing. Brought Feshlak to entrance instead of their cubby camp.

Anon and Blood Guard do not go after EVERY single raid target, EVERY single cycle, EVERY single week. To pretend your mania is the same as theirs is delusional at best.

[Culkasi]

So, the argument of why Awakened deserves to be suspended is because Awakened didn't go above and beyond the raid rules? Next time someone concedes a mob, we should just petition and state that the guild didn't offer to walk away from their computers for 24 hours? Great logic.

I can't speak for how staff deals with these things, thats up to them, and as much as I wish I did, I don't have a hotline - I'll wager AA leadership spends a lot more time talking with staff than I do. Awakened should be suspended because they once again made it a shitty experience to raid for a casual guild. Because they once again decided that nothing else matters than the next pixels.

[Ruhtar]

No, Anon/Blood Guard training them exactly as we did caused extra time. I wonder, will they be suspended also? They did exact same thing. Brought Feshlak to entrance instead of their cubby camp.

Don't try to drag others down with you. Take the L and move on.

Wasn't Feshlak and had nothing to do with either party interfering with a mob previously conceded by said parties.

[Baler]

Don't try to drag others down with you. Take the L and move on.

pras

[kotton05]

So, the argument of why Awakened deserves to be suspended is because Awakened didn't go above and beyond the raid rules? Next time someone concedes a mob, we should just petition and state that the guild didn't offer to walk away from their computers for 24 hours? Great logic.

get fukt

[mefdinkins]

I mean, when CSG is in there, you could also just go and kill another of the 30 mobs you are killing that week and let us learn how to play better, and have some good casual fun wtih our friends, instead of killing your 461th golem and selling another Soul Leech for MQ plats?

I killed more golems in BDA than I have in Awakened. Why do you act like CSG is some new up and comers? CSG has been around for more than most of the guilds on the server and you have to learn how to do golems? lol

[kaev]

Looks like the Children of Zeelot are doing him proud. So glad to see you guys still don't get it after all these years. /sniff Brings a tear to my eye (or maybe that's this damned virus, not sure.)

[Culkasi]

I killed more golems in BDA than I have in Awakened. Why do you act like CSG is some new up and comers? CSG has been around for more than most of the guilds on the server and you have to learn how to do golems? lol

We don't have to learn to do golems, we just want to do it on our own pace. Apparently that pace to you is "OMG YOU ARE NOOBS AND DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING" and to us just a nice pace to play Everquest at. That different is the main problem on the raid scene really.

[Nexii]

So, the argument of why Awakened deserves to be suspended is because Awakened didn't go above and beyond the raid rules? Next time someone concedes a mob, we should just petition and state that the guild didn't offer to walk away from their computers for 24 hours? Great logic.

I think the spirit of the rules is that you make things right. Granted that's subjective but simply conceding isn't really giving a lot when CSG could have lost Eashan due to the reckless pulling. Would it really kill AWK to give CSG a few pixels for their wasted time?

This isn't the first reckless thing lately, Vulak was trained on AM by AWK recently. No concede or concessions were given, it could have cost us if anything else had been up.

All that being said yea 30 days is harsh and the rules are a mess as usual.

[smitho1984]

Then leave and go to instanced raiding...

[mefdinkins]

We don't have to learn to do golems, we just want to do it on our own pace. Apparently that pace to you is "OMG YOU ARE NOOBS AND DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING" and to us just a nice pace to play Everquest at. That different is the main problem on the raid scene really.

You said that because a mistake was made by Opmeter "he made the raid scene worse" for you all and we deserve to punished. Then you said you want to be able to have time to figure out how to do golems at your own pace even if it means Aw/Am's raids get disrupted by DT's, summoning mobs, wipes, and forced camp outs. When an Aw/Am player make a mistake that impacts someone else they need to be suspended, but when you make a mistake you need people to play more at your speed. Cool.

That's the exact double standard people are frustrated with.

[Jimjam]

Culk just wants you to concede 95% of mobs csg attends, just as csg concedes 95% of mobs awakened attempts!

Simples!

[trite]

We don't have to learn to do golems, we just want to do it on our own pace. Apparently that pace to you is "OMG YOU ARE NOOBS AND DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING" and to us just a nice pace to play Everquest at. That different is the main problem on the raid scene really.

You're playing on the wrong server. We compete for limited content in a PVE environment here. That is the whole end game. I don't fault you for enjoying that play style though. That is why servers with instanced content are so popular.

[Zemus]

Clearly you don't have a great grasp on how things work, or you wouldn't be suspended for the next 30 days because you couldn't reach a deal to avoid a petition.


How do you get by with your day to day with that gigantic chip on your shoulder?

[Foxplay]

Clearly you don't have a great grasp on how things work, or you wouldn't be suspended for the next 30 days because you couldn't reach a deal to avoid a petition.

Oh snap

[Culkasi]

You said that because a mistake was made by Opmeter "he made the raid scene worse" for you all and we deserve to punished. Then you said you want to be able to have time to figure out how to do golems at your own pace even if it means Aw/Am's raids get disrupted by DT's, summoning mobs, wipes, and forced camp outs. When an Aw/Am player make a mistake that impacts someone else they need to be suspended, but when you make a mistake you need people to play more at your speed. Cool.

That's the exact double standard people are frustrated with.

No, I said I don't want you to be in Fear when we are. By all means petition us if we destroy your day.

[Culkasi]

You're playing on the wrong server. We compete for limited content in a PVE environment here. That is the whole end game. I don't fault you for enjoying that play style though. That is why servers with instanced content are so popular.

If that is true, then why has A/A for a long time rotated most of the mobs? And recently seriously considered rotating even more? Just out of curiosity.

[mefdinkins]

No, I said I don't want you to be in Fear when we are. By all means petition us if we destroy your day.

So now only 1 guild can be in a raid zone at a time? That would have been great if you weren't in TOV when we were trying to pull Fesh! Gosh you're so greedy!

[Endonde]

I encourage everyone who has completed the classic 1-60 journey on P99 to roll toons on Coirnav or Agnarr.

You've already beaten P99. No reason to keep playing after finishing that journey. You can however grind all the raids you want on an instances server.

Are you the new swish? At least swish posted gifs...

[smitho1984]

We don't have to learn to do golems, we just want to do it on our own pace. Apparently that pace to you is "OMG YOU ARE NOOBS AND DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING" and to us just a nice pace to play Everquest at. That different is the main problem on the raid scene really.

You're playing on the wrong server. We compete for limited content in a PVE environment here. That is the whole end game. I don't fault you for enjoying that play style though. That is why servers with instanced content are so popular.

No, I said I don't want you to be in Fear when we are. By all means petition us if we destroy your day.

This is called instanced raiding.... Again, youre on the wrong server

[Check12345]

Some folks just don’t understand that if every single player in A/A deleted there characters and walked away for good that the end game would be exactly the same with 2 new top guilds competing.

It’s how this server works.

A similar example is ‘first past the post’ election rules that create two party systems. Guilds and parties merge just the same.

[Mblake81]

[QUOTE=Daldaen;2666867]I encourage everyone who has completed the classic 1-60 journey on P99 to roll toons on Coirnav or Agnarr.

You've already beaten P99. No reason to keep playing after finishing that journey. You can however grind all the raids you want on an instances server.

[Check12345]

Phone posting apologies for auto corrects

[Atmas]

Culkasi, as a person who has been in the raid scene of this server a long time I feel you are expecting a standard that I don't think CSG in the past has always met. I've seen a lot of incidents, particularly in fear, of CSG training/kiting something and not leaving the zone. That zone even has way fewer raid targets. It is not an uncommon occurrence for a casual guild or even a hardcore rivalry guild to fail a pull or mess up in such a way that takes a bystander guild out of the possibility of contending.

You've also expressed a lot of sentiment that makes it look like you really don't know how much slack you've been cut by A/A compared to how much they cut each other. Or just slack in general. You can probably ask a few people in Aftermath what would happen if they petitioned about a mob they got the kill on.

You also have a lot of demonetization of hardcore guilds. Do they kill most of the content? Certainly. Is is for the purpose of locking out less competitive guilds? No. Is it really all people gearing out their 4th alts? Not really. There are certainly people who have geared more than one toon but it's taken a lot of work in this environment to get there. Many of the people you see in the end game now were not there or not playing in the past. Like you said, you have former guildes who moved on to more competitive guilds.

I really think it would be better to always talk with each other. I'm really over the whole suspension thing, back when it was an infrequent one cycle thing it felt like reasonable justice to keep people in line. I wasn't even super pleased with it then because I have friends with people in most guilds having been on the server so long. I was pretty disappointed in the length of the AG ban, though I did hope it would be an eye-opener. Now it seems like a kind of police state. Anyway, as a friendly word of caution, you are kind of steering things in a manner that isn't necessarily great for anyone. Can you say CSG will be perfect?

[bspa0700]

Also, "conceding" doesn't work in a 3+ guild environment. A/A can just concede the next 2-4 of whatever when they screw up because the other guild will accept that with 99.9% certainty they will be killing said mob on the next 2-4 cycles. If Awakened concedes Feshlak, what the fuck does that do for CSG? Tell me the odds of CSG killing even one of the next 2-4 Feshlaks that Aftermath know Awakened has conceded.
No, thats right, I thought so.

Sorry Culk but this is where you have to accept some responsibility. If your guild is not capable or lacks the desire to track/mobilize/execute, then that is on you. If a guild concedes, that doesn't mean you get the zone to yourself -- it means that the offending guild does not compete.

This point seems to me to be the part where the communication process breaks down.

Your entire argument revolves around the concept that you should be given freedom to play at your own pace, because you lose any competitive race (which isn't your fault).

[Endonde]

Some folks just don’t understand that if every single player in A/A deleted there characters and walked away for good that the end game would be exactly the same with 2 new top guilds competing.

It’s how this server works.

A similar example is ‘first past the post’ election rules that create two party systems. Guilds and parties merge just the same.

This may be true but it doesn't give anyone the right to be an asshole.

[Atmas]

Oh, one thing I didn't even get into, is doing the math. The end game here has way way more people than it did on live for this point. Think about how many people are in the top guilds and how many Vulak drops there are in a year. Even the people who put in crazy hours aren't seeing crazy loot on multiple characters.

[Nexii]

If that is true, then why has A/A for a long time rotated most of the mobs? And recently seriously considered rotating even more? Just out of curiosity.

The mobs that are rotated are largely those that are most prone to training and petitions. Rotations have been breaking down for those targets that aren't...ring war, statue, aow for example

[Skew]

All im getting out of this thread is Culkasi is probably harder to work with than Breaken. That is saying something.

Pray tell , why send a petition in if you dont want the guild to be banned?

You sir , are a Mong!

[Tura]

You have the biggest guild on the server.. combine already and step up. Quit playing this meak "we cant compete mentality", its getting old at this point. Play like you have a set of balls, it's sad they call you a leader.

this.

Really tired of the 'big bad wolf' mentality when your raid force is more than capable of competing. Somehow either that mentality has been ingrained upon the staff or they have alts/friends/favorites there.

Bi weekly quakes make windows that much easier to track and manage now. CSG could easily compete if they chose to. Hell, Paradigm Shift is learning shit on their own and doing quite well. We try to give space for that where we can. A good example would be the triples that we left alone last week.

Before you make the tired 'we dont like staring at walls like u a/a nerds' comment, understand that with a raid force your size, you could easily split tracking/fte duties between your people. Then instead of laying on the ground complaining about the raid scene, you could gain some much needed respect from a/a and actually compete!

Healthy competition is good for p99 - something I really wish the staff here would see more clearly.

[Baler]

Look like dog shit to me
feel like dog shit
It smell like dog shit
tastes like dog shit
Hm good thing we don't step in it

[Culkasi]

Can you say CSG will be perfect?

Of course not, but I do know that we have a history of making things right, of (mostly?) staying out of trouble, and most importantly of sharing content. I can't talk to specific Fear situations, but I know I have been in Fear when we have left, and I have been on many a Trakanon we have conceded and left. But no, of course we won't be perfect. We also don't try to kill 40 mobs every cycle.

[Culkasi]

All im getting out of this thread is Culkasi is probably harder to work with than Breaken. That is saying something.

Pray tell , why send a petition in if you dont want the guild to be banned?

You sir , are a Mong!

We sent the petition, not me. I don't personally want a ban, I want Awakened (and Aftermath) to let us play Everquest and kill some targets without them "dominating" us. I mean, you rotate with each other, so it can't all be about the competition right? A ban is a result of bad behaviour, both in the inceident, and historically - own it, accept it, correct it?
I know that if we get banned, thats what we will try our best to do - not get better at pulling mobs a millisecond before Aftermath, but better at not affecting other people in the same zone as us.

[Tura]

Wasted more than 90 minutes of your own time trying to split triples the other day that no one interfered with.

zing

[Check12345]

This may be true but it doesn't give anyone the right to be an asshole.

Well of course not!

Replace parties with guilds in this vid, p99 won’t change just the guild names will.

https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo

[trite]

If that is true, then why has A/A for a long time rotated most of the mobs? And recently seriously considered rotating even more? Just out of curiosity.

it wasn't the majority of the mobs and there were a lot of factors...leash range, vulak calls, an unwillingness to deal with arbitrary suspensions after stepping on each others toes.... effort was a small factor too..

The reasons don't really matter though, the only reason A/A were able to rotate mobs is because third parties didn't have the will or wherewithal to compete. Least of all CSG

Not everyone who wasn't in A/A were terrible at Everquest though. Paradigm shift was able to break the statue rotation by building up a raid force, showing up to compete and striking deals ...

[Legday]

I don't personally want a ban

Again, you guys having Awakened do everything they should have done under the rules in conceding to you and STILL submitting a petition makes statements like the one above look so, so very stupid. You know how the end game works on this server. It's been this way for like 8 years and the staff endorses it. You petitioned to get them suspended. Own it.

[Culkasi]

Again, you guys having Awakened do everything they should have done under the rules in conceding to you and STILL submitting a petition makes statements like the one above look so, so very stupid. You know how the end game works on this server. It's been this way for like 8 years and the staff endorses it. You petitioned to get them suspended. Own it.

Oh, I am 100% owning that CSG did this, and it was a decision we made. I just don't want people to not be able to enjoy EQ for 30 days - I know all to well how it feels not to be able to kill raid content.... I wish there was better ways to work things out, but unfortunately AA leadership has told us numerous times that this is the ONLY way to work things out.

[thiz1234]

I think I’m going to join red...

[Alde]

Oh, I am 100% owning that CSG did this, and it was a decision we made. I just don't want people to not be able to enjoy EQ for 30 days - I know all to well how it feels not to be able to kill raid content.... I wish there was better ways to work things out, but unfortunately AA leadership has told us numerous times that this is the ONLY way to work things out.

This is called instanced raiding.... Again, youre on the wrong server

[Legday]

Oh, I am 100% owning that CSG did this, and it was a decision we made. I just don't want people to not be able to enjoy EQ for 30 days - I know all to well how it feels not to be able to kill raid content.... I wish there was better ways to work things out, but unfortunately AA leadership has told us numerous times that this is the ONLY way to work things out.

This is getting pretty circular but, work what out? They conceded and explained what they did. It should have been enough for you guys because it would have been enough for us.

[Fazlazen]

this would have never happened had taken stuck with what they are best at... farming FBSS

[Raavak]

30 days to level a character to 60 on Red.
Ready... set... go!

I've met some real jerks on P99. Atmas definitely wasn't one of them. Sorry it went down like this bro.

[skarlorn]

wow when i wnt to sleep i requested nerd meltdown, but now there's 22 additional pages.

it'll take most of my workday to read through this during breaks, i'll just make this post for you firegiants to chew on:

The reason why you just got banned for 30 days is because YOU, yes YOU, are responsible for turning the raid scene on this server into a steaming heap of othmir refuse. It doesn't matter that Awakened's scrub wiped an entire guild because he was so bad at the game he couldn't manage to communicate with his guildies before trying to FTE a mob. What really matters is that for the past years, YOUR guild and guilds exactly like it, mostly comprised of the same people, have been hives of degeneracy and toxic behavior. (Toxic behavior like getting a batphone and racing for a mob without bothering to contact your guild to see what's going on - nice one, genius!)

Over the years, many, many things have gone unnoticed by the GMs. But all those sleazy pull strats and culture of fucking over your rival guild to get your Fleshlight Loot first have culminated in this raid scene which Absolutely Deserves to Be Banned.

People are going to freak out and have meltdowns. People will hopefully quit the server (good riddance) or leave the banned guilds. This is all good. It means that the punishments are working because it's going to get rid of the people who cannot deal with the rules, or it's going to force people to create a wholly different raid scene where they aren't at risk for 30 day + suspensions.

Enjoy chewing on your cud (half-digested hotpockets)

[Kye1709]

Of course not, but I do know that we have a history of making things right, of (mostly?) staying out of trouble, and most importantly of sharing content. I can't talk to specific Fear situations, but I know I have been in Fear when we have left, and I have been on many a Trakanon we have conceded and left. But no, of course we won't be perfect. We also don't try to kill 40 mobs every cycle.


...that wasn't CSG trying to claim every target possible during that last 20 day A/A ban?

[kaev]

Some folks just don’t understand that if every single player in A/A deleted there characters and walked away for good that the end game would be exactly the same with 2 new top guilds competing.

It’s how this server works.

A similar example is ‘first past the post’ election rules that create two party systems. Guilds and parties merge just the same.

Aye, stupidity does seem to be hardwired into us genetically.

[Thugnuts]

WTF is this? I demand answers. I just finally got awarded disability for me PTSD so I could raid uninterrupted and now we're handing out 30 day bans like it all means nothing??

[RedXIII]

If this server is any serious, in time the appeal will be granted and CSG will be suspended for crywolf.

We did crap, we concede saying we did crap. Thats the p99 rules. Thats all that there is to it.

OH, and you ACTUALLY killed Eashen afterall... i mean... how can you even petition something that you killed?! I always thought that this was not a thing at all, RIGHT!?

I remember during the alt-tab jump petition ppl said that Aftermeth couldnt be suspended because the fraps we had about them alt+tab+jump were on mobs they lost the race and we killed it. So they could not be punished because they did not get to kill the mob. I remember even joking about that you can try murder someone as much as you want, as long as you miss all the shots its FINE! lolz.

Anyways, again happy to see Aftermeth really shocked about this whole petition thing even after concede. And be carefull guys... 30 days with CSG on your necks, if they zone in ToV, just shout CONCEDE everything and come back the day after. Better lose 1 cycle of mobs then 30days.

[bspa0700]

I bet Culkasi wishes all the other men in the bar would leave so he has unlimited time to play at his pace to pick up the hottest girl there too.

Azure Guard is simply playing on the wrong server.

[Culkasi]

...that wasn't CSG trying to claim every target possible during that last 20 day A/A ban?

Ehm, no? I am pretty sure we made a deal that everyone, at least in the channel where it was discussed with all the guild leaders, was very happy about, and everyone seemed to appreciate those 20 days?
I personally think there was WAY too much raiding going on those 20 days, and I know most Europa and Omni members where sighing with relief when it was over because it was way too much (see how I have many times asked for 1-2 mobs per cycle, not 15?). Ultimately this double ban showed that there was some differences in how the different guilds in CSG would like to approach these situations going forward, and as such the constallation of CSG now is not quite the same as it was 6 weeks ago.
I am sure in a potential new deal, mobs would be split differently, now that more guilds have had a chance to try the various content, know what they can and can't do, and want to attempt other things than what they wanted to try in the last cycle. Thats how it works really, when casual people sit down and talk about how to share the content.

[RedXIII]

I bet Culkasi wishes all the other men in the bar would leave so he has unlimited time to play at his pace to pick up the hottest girl there too

ROFL. best post.

[RedXIII]

Doesnt make much sense to me, i thought they died to eashen. (wasnt online during this time)

I was not there either. But people told me they wipe, recover, uncontested and killed Eashen next pull. So yeah, watchout... even if you concede and that person still kills the target you can still be punished because "you made em waste time". rofl.

[kaev]

I bet Culkasi wishes all the other men in the bar would leave so he has unlimited time to play at his pace to pick up the hottest girl there too.

All you specials who wish you had posted that (unironically) first are why we are guaranteed to see more 30-day (and longer) raid bans here.

It's been years, and yet the only change since Rogean's post below is that the spergbeards have formed up as two teams instead of one. Pathetic is a word, putrid is another, but sad is probably sufficient.

Raid Scene
It continues to be an aggravating realization among CSR staff that 10% of the server population causes 90% of the problems. We are all for competition, but it needs to be fair competition. We are also all here for the same thing, to experience classic Everquest. The same guild monopolizing raid content for 2 years that they might not even need anymore is ridiculous, just to block other guilds from the chance of gearing up to take on the same end game content.

[Ella`Ella]

Dick move IMO to not tell AW your petitioning them Culkazi.

Pro-tip on petitions, never tell the other guy you're petitioning them or for what reason; forewarned is forearmed.

[Culkasi]

Dick move IMO to not tell AW your petitioning them Culkazi. I would of at least talked to them before hand like us a A/A do. Its clear by your posts you felt like you had something on A/A and wanted to get that fraps and ban in there to "show them". Just think to yourself, you really think AW would petition you for that if you were trying to pull a feshlak in and that happened? Most likely not, they would of just went about their day but you wanted this ban so dont act like you didnt.

Also you were wondering on why we rotate some mobs? Because some mobs like KT are extremely hard to fight over and not train eachother. And the ones that we can fight for without too much conflict, we obviously fight for.

I mean if its blood your out for you got it, but damn did you ever look like a bitch doing it and by the sounds of things. Ruined your relationship with AW.

First of all, you don't seem to have read anything that I have said about how I feel about these things.

Secondly, I didn't have a relationship with Awakened to ruin. Last time I talked to their leader he told me would come back to me, an d that was 6 months ago. A/A has made no secret that they hate CSG and will do anything they can to make sure we don't see content.

As I said several times in this thread already, I, or we, were not out for blood, but for a servver to play on.

[Supreme]

A/A has made no secret that they hate CSG and will do anything they can to make sure we don't see content.

It was meant "uncontested" content. The fact you sneak petitioned on an encounter that was conceded because of their bad pull is in bad form and makes you appear as the villian.

There were alot of other ways you could have dealt with this. Most of which starts with bringing the evidence and working a compromise before you run to the "po-po".

[MalystryxVoF]

They conceded and explained what they did.

That's what you have asked several times now and i have answered.. NO, NO ONE talked/explained anything at all.. the only thing that was said was in OOC "we concede feshlak"

nothing more, and no explanations/apologies, nothing, hence the petition.

[Check12345]

No i read your posts, the message was pretty clear.

[Supreme]

Random scenerio, if Guild A has conceded say Dagarn and Guild B trains the piss out of them at zone in (with no other competition at zone in) should Guild B concede Dagarn??

depends if they are in the middle of an encounter.

[MalystryxVoF]

I was not there either. But people told me they wipe, recover, uncontested and killed Eashen next pull. So yeah, watchout... even if you concede and that person still kills the target you can still be punished because "you made em waste time". rofl.


no you weren't there. no this did not happen, no that is not why we petitioned, read the thread right.
you were petitioned for dumping Feshlak on us while we tried to kill eashen that was CONTESTED by every OTHER guild then A/A, and we did almost lose eashen because you guys wiped us.

get yer facts straight before you try to flame.

[Check12345]

That's what you have asked several times now and i have answered.. NO, NO ONE talked/explained anything at all.. the only thing that was said was in OOC "we concede feshlak"

nothing more, and no explanations/apologies, nothing, hence the petition.


You are on the wrong server.
https://youtu.be/5ypUz1WYens

[Bones]

This is pretty fucked up lol 30 days for an accident?