If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

I think you missed a few steps there. It's always a leap to god for you religious folks without ever digging deeper. Our understanding of the universe and physics is incomplete (how convenient). Does that mean we won't learn more? Yes, if we always jump to conclusions like you just did.

Dude, you cannot just answer the question? That is the "leap" you science guys always take. If we cannot defend our "wiki" knowledge of physics we will just say that it is incomplete and therefore your arguments (which we can argue against) wrong. Admit that you got pwned. And what is this about digging deeper? How about you dig deeper and try to answer my earlier questions about the "closed system" thing. And please...point out the few steps I missed there.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

It's pointless, man. Any attempt to impart even basic scientific principle is met with the internet equivalent of " *sticks fingers in ears* Nuh-uh! Nuh-uh! Lalalalala I CAN'T HEAR YOU! Lalalala" and "You weren't there, you can't know that it's always been like that" despite overwhelming evidence that points it to be the case.

Like I said before:

The law of conservation of energy (the First Law of Thermodynamics) is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created or destroyed: it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing that can happen to energy in a closed system is that it can change form: for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy.

Prove that the Universe is a closed system. You cannot. No one can. Many have theories, but no proof, and most believe that is an Open System. So Mr. science guy, the law of conservation of energy cannot apply to the Universe which means matter CAN be created and destroyed with the Universe. I ask again...how did that matter come to being. Answer - GOD!

Where is my "I can't hear you" in that? Thought so. You may have to go beyond your eight grade scientific knowledge base to find a rebuttal, and I am not sure Wiki can help...lmao.

[Hauling]

You miss the point of the argument. I am saying that just because something cannot be proven by science...which has been wrong so many times in the past...does not mean it does not exist. (fact) Can we agree on that? So therefore you must admit that there is a possibility that God does exist. If you do not, then you are not following your own logic. I choose to believe that God does exist.

Science has been wrong many times in the past and guess what corrected it. Yep, more science.

You have your hypothesis that there is a god. Test it. That's your hypothesis to prove, not mine. I can't prove there is no god any more than I can prove there are no aliens, no centaurs or no leprechauns. Once again, the burden of proof is not on the people who question the claims. You say there is a god. Show me.

And a possibility is not a guarantee. There's always a possibility that Kristin Kreuk will walk into my bedroom and give me a blow job, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Henini]

Further, by this analogy, do I need to prove to you that I also took a piss this morning? Do I also need to prove to you that I am even capable of taking a piss? Or do you think there's enough existing evidence out there that you can infer from that I do indeed piss?


pics or it didn't happen!

[Henini]

How in the flying fuck do you know that? lol

Not even what, decade ago, we didn't even know where more than half of the universe's mass was, nevermind WHAT it was? You're going to make a claim as strong as that based on what precious little we "know" now?

no that's actually jr high science!

[Hauling]

Dude, you cannot just answer the question? That is the "leap" you science guys always take. If we cannot defend our "wiki" knowledge of physics we will just say that it is incomplete and therefore your arguments (which we can argue against) wrong. Admit that you got pwned. And what is this about digging deeper? How about you dig deeper and try to answer my earlier questions about the "closed system" thing. And please...point out the few steps I missed there.

There is no leap when it comes to science. That's the point. We don't know all the answers. So we keep looking till we find it. And if we run into more questions, we look for more answers.

Your whole argument is that because we haven't found answers yet, that is proof there is a god. Once again, another fallacy of false cause.

If my enduring fallacious arguments means I got "pwned" then congrats. You have won this battle of witlessness.

The closed system thing that you brought up will be answered in good time and the person that does that will receive the nobel prize. One more time and then I'm done repeating it. Just because we don't have all the answers yet is not proof that there is a god.

[Hauling]

pics or it didn't happen!

You got it.

[Henini]

So Boggwin Bramblefoot

To sum it up, judging by what you say, god is as real as dreams are.


I think we found a place to agree on god finally!


either that or its' a pickle eating bear. ( I hope you had your rock in your dream!!)

[Henini]

I was wondering...

If god created everything, does this mean he is with us on earth?

because there are sure lots of things that got created during the ages.
like cars computers boats concrete pavement pizza (yummy) etc..

like every time someone creates something, he's god ?


or is it something more like , god created the tought that made that person think about taking a bunch of different materials and passing current trough em and making things like computers?
or .. the wheel!
cuz we know that wasn't a coincidence right? there has to be higher power involved.

[Harrison]

It's pointless, man. Any attempt to impart even basic scientific principle is met with the internet equivalent of " *sticks fingers in ears* Nuh-uh! Nuh-uh! Lalalalala I CAN'T HEAR YOU! Lalalala" and "You weren't there, you can't know that it's always been like that" despite overwhelming evidence that points it to be the case.

You're just as ignorant in many respects as the other idiots in the thread. (Primarily those not believing in evolution lol)

Every 5-10 years nearly our entire understanding of the basic principles of physics are fucked with when we learn something new. What makes you think we've got it this time around? lol

You're not omniscient. You don't know dick. (none of us do)

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

So Boggwin Bramblefoot

To sum it up, judging by what you say, god is as real as dreams are.


I think we found a place to agree on god finally!


either that or its' a pickle eating bear. ( I hope you had your rock in your dream!!)

No that is what you say, not me. You want to twist the argument into a cute little ditty, but that still does not excuse the fact that you cannot come up with arguments against what I ask. All you can do is say that "science will eventually come up with the answer, in time"? You know that for sure? See, I knew you had faith...lol.

I cannot Prove to you that God does exist, but you cannot prove that he doesn't. However, in the future, bone up a little bit more on your science. It is embarrassing that you guys cannot debate me in your faith-of-choice. (science).

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

I was wondering...

If god created everything, does this mean he is with us on earth?

because there are sure lots of things that got created during the ages.
like cars computers boats concrete pavement pizza (yummy) etc..

like every time someone creates something, he's god ?


or is it something more like , god created the tought that made that person think about taking a bunch of different materials and passing current trough em and making things like computers?
or .. the wheel!
cuz we know that wasn't a coincidence right? there has to be higher power involved.

If you are truly wondering, why not read the bible? I think the answers you are looking for are in there. That is the problem with Atheist...you do not even read the material that you are arguing against. I mean, I read your science.

[Hauling]

I cannot Prove to you that God does exist

That is a fact.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

It is embarrassing that you guys cannot debate me in your faith-of-choice. (science).

That is a fact.

[Harrison]

If you are truly wondering, why not read the bible? I think the answers you are looking for are in there. That is the problem with Atheist...you do not even read the material that you are arguing against. I mean, I read your science.

Don't bring that up. The bible is FULL of stupidity and it is also doubly fallible since it is written by men.

[Henini]

loll science is a "religion" now.


way to be oblivious about everything in the world.

[Hauling]

I don't claim to have all the answers. You do. That is the difference. You claim god is the answer. I ask for proof. You say you cannot give it to me. Guess what. I'm going to look for my answers somewhere else.

[Slathar]

Like I said before:

The law of conservation of energy (the First Law of Thermodynamics) is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created or destroyed: it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing that can happen to energy in a closed system is that it can change form: for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy.

Prove that the Universe is a closed system. You cannot. No one can. Many have theories, but no proof, and most believe that is an Open System. So Mr. science guy, the law of conservation of energy cannot apply to the Universe which means matter CAN be created and destroyed with the Universe. I ask again...how did that matter come to being. Answer - GOD!

Where is my "I can't hear you" in that? Thought so. You may have to go beyond your eight grade scientific knowledge base to find a rebuttal, and I am not sure Wiki can help...lmao.

christian - check
smug - check
votes GOP - check
brags about being rich (lol) on the internet - check

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

christian - check
smug - check
votes GOP - check
brags about being rich (lol) on the internet - check

Athiest - check
ignorant - check
votes socialist - check
loves being poor and hanging out with kids.

[Slathar]

If you are truly wondering, why not read the bible? I think the answers you are looking for are in there. That is the problem with Atheist...you do not even read the material that you are arguing against. I mean, I read your science.

you want some bible reading material? okay!

example one of a kind and loving god!

Deuteronomy 23:2 says: A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the lord.

and equality for women too you say?

1 Timothy 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."

but the church loves homosexuals! oh wait

Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

i can go all day long with the insanities listed in this fairy tale

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

loll science is a "religion" now.


way to be oblivious about everything in the world.

I say that because many of you base your beliefs on unproven theories. How is that oblivious to everything in the world? Everything? Really? Grow up and debate me or move on. Your petty jabs are both pathetic and childish.

[Henini]

also,

atheists never burned, tortured and pillaged in the name of atheism.

never went to war in the name of atheism.
never tried to manipulate and control people in the name of atheism.


I could go on.

[Slathar]

I say that because many of you base your beliefs on unproven theories. How is that oblivious to everything in the world? Everything? Really? Grow up and debate me or move on. Your petty jabs are both pathetic and childish.

this guy sounds fat as hell

[Hauling]

I say that because many of you base your beliefs on unproven theories. How is that oblivious to everything in the world? Everything? Really? Grow up and debate me or move on. Your petty jabs are both pathetic and childish.

It's been stated before. A theory is an idea that is proven and can be tested again and again to get consistent results. It's a hypothesis, like the hypothesis of god, that is unproven. So who's really basing their beliefs on unproven hypotheses here?

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

you want some bible reading material? okay!

example one of a kind and loving god!

Deuteronomy 23:2 says: A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the lord.

and equality for women too you say?

1 Timothy 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."

but the church loves homosexuals! oh wait

Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

i can go all day long with the insanities listed in this fairy tale

Deuteronomy 23:2: This is an old testament rule. At the time of the old testament, the only people following God were the Jews pretty much. This is the NIV translation,"No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation." All this means is people who don't believe in God and have them as their Savior don't belong saying they are. Like a wolf in sheep's clothing type deal. Also, how can this law relate to Christianity when clearly it was a Mosaic law? Where was Christianity in 1450 BC? Next!

1 Timothy 2:12: The Pastoral Epistles are...written with the purpose of providing instruction of ordering churches at the close of the apostolic era. Next!

Leviticus 18:22: Your point on this one is what? The church is against the act of homosexuality. I am sorry if you think that it is ok. You are in the minority on this one.

Is that the best you can do with your Atheist guide to talking points? I know that those are about the only parts of scripture you guys bother learning about...lol.

[Henini]

I say that because many of you base your beliefs on unproven theories. How is that oblivious to everything in the world? Everything? Really? Grow up and debate me or move on. Your petty jabs are both pathetic and childish.

I don't believe I need to prove to you that gravity isn't god holding us on the ground. this was mentioned before.

you keep dismissing all the facts that are known today due to science, in the name of god.

you use arguments like "prove to me that paper is made from trees" you haven't seen it happen so it's not true, god made paper.

Come on we all know how paper is made for crying out loud. god didn't fkin make paper. man did

gravity? it's there it's a fact, it's explained why. because you don't know how it works. doesn't mean it's the work of god, it just mean you are ignorant.

There are lots of things I don't know too, I'm ignorant as well. but at least I don't go and dismiss facts and findings about physics and history (fosiles, remains, etc.) and say no it's god.

it's like, wake up dude.



and where is your faith from? I hope it's not the bible, because that book was researched many times and it's been proven that's mostly made up.
there are like hundreds of years discriptencies between one section and the other. I'm not going to go into details, because it's been a long time since I looked into it and don't remember all the details.
But maybe you should, since you use it as a guideline for life.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

also,

atheists never burned, tortured and pillaged in the name of atheism.

never went to war in the name of atheism.
never tried to manipulate and control people in the name of atheism.


I could go on.

Heard it, addressed it before ITT, move on. Fail with a side of lamesauce.

[Slathar]

Deuteronomy 23:2: This is an old testament rule. At the time of the old testament, the only people following God were the Jews pretty much. This is the NIV translation,"No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation." All this means is people who don't believe in God and have them as their Savior don't belong saying they are. Like a wolf in sheep's clothing type deal. Also, how can this law relate to Christianity when clearly it was a Mosaic law? Where was Christianity in 1450 BC? Next!

1 Timothy 2:12: The Pastoral Epistles are...written with the purpose of providing instruction of ordering churches at the close of the apostolic era. Next!

Leviticus 18:22: Your point on this one is what? The church is against the act of homosexuality. I am sorry if you think that it is ok. You are in the minority on this one.

Is that the best you can do with your Atheist guide to talking points? I know that those are about the only parts of scripture you guys bother learning about...lol.

i like that you end each post with lol it adds a sense of maturity to your argument.

anyways have fun following the words of murderers, slave owners, homophobes, and pedophiles as your word of law

LOL (for you)

[Succession]

It's been stated before. A theory is an idea that is proven and can be tested again and again to get consistent results. It's a hypothesis, like the hypothesis of god, that is unproven. So who's really basing their beliefs on unproven hypotheses here?

http://tinyurl.com/4ajnyd2

[Henini]

i like that you end each post with lol it adds a sense of maturity to your argument.

anyways have fun following the words of murderers, slave owners, homophobes, and pedophiles as your word of law

LOL (for you)

I think you ment lol @ you

but it's sad really.

[nilbog]

anyways have fun following the words of murderers, slave owners, homophobes, and pedophiles as your word of law


Humans?

[Slathar]

Humans?

exactly

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

I don't believe I need to prove to you that gravity isn't god holding us on the ground. this was mentioned before.

you keep dismissing all the facts that are known today due to science, in the name of god.

you use arguments like "prove to me that paper is made from trees" you haven't seen it happen so it's not true, god made paper.

Come on we all know how paper is made for crying out loud. god didn't fkin make paper. man did

gravity? it's there it's a fact, it's explained why. because you don't know how it works. doesn't mean it's the work of god, it just mean you are ignorant.

There are lots of things I don't know too, I'm ignorant as well. but at least I don't go and dismiss facts and findings about physics and history (fosiles, remains, etc.) and say no it's god.

it's like, wake up dude.



and where is your faith from? I hope it's not the bible, because that book was researched many times and it's been proven that's mostly made up.
there are like hundreds of years discriptencies between one section and the other. I'm not going to go into details, because it's been a long time since I looked into it and don't remember all the details.
But maybe you should, since you use it as a guideline for life.

I never used an argument about paper being made of trees...point that out please. You are using that to make your lame arguments seem better. You are not smart enough to grasp my original argument so I won't bother with you any more. Secondly, is gravity a theory? Lastly, who proved the bible to be made up? And what was their basis. If you cannot answer that it isn't true...lol. See I can do it too. And as for not going into details...that is code for I can't look it up on Wiki fast enough so I won't bother...lmao.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

i like that you end each post with lol it adds a sense of maturity to your argument.

anyways have fun following the words of murderers, slave owners, homophobes, and pedophiles as your word of law

LOL (for you)


I'm sorry, is that all you can come up with after my rebuttal? Were the explanations not clear enough? You guys crack me up. I answer your questions left and right and all you can do is come up with stupid jabs? I feel like I am debating middle school children.

[Slathar]

I'm sorry, is that all you can come up with after my rebuttal? Were the explanations not clear enough? You guys crack me up. I answer your questions left and right and all you can do is come up with stupid jabs? I feel like I am debating middle school children.

because you're using a fictional book as a holy scripture. that is what amuses us. you're amusing to us. your beliefs are funny because we do not take them seriously. it is funny how seriously you're taking it and the fact that you think you're right.

it is just entertainment. you're a big joke :D hope this helps

ps - keep pretending to be successful

[nilbog]

also,

atheists never burned, tortured and pillaged in the name of atheism.

never went to war in the name of atheism.
never tried to manipulate and control people in the name of atheism.


Stalin? He didn't kill people while shouting "I'm doing this for atheism!" afaik, but.. he was eradicating the Church to allow for communism.

Now I agree that Communism <> Atheism, but I think your claims above cannot be true. There are far too many human beings for that 'never' to happen.

http://rainbowstalin13.ytmnd.com/

[Hauling]

http://tinyurl.com/4ajnyd2

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theory

Number five as it applies to scientific theory.

Essential criteria:

The defining characteristic of a scientific theory is that it makes falsifiable or testable predictions. The relevance and specificity of those predictions determine how potentially useful the theory is. A would-be theory that makes no predictions that can be observed is not a useful theory. Predictions not sufficiently specific to be tested are similarly not useful. In both cases, the term "theory" is hardly applicable.

In practice a body of descriptions of knowledge is usually only called a theory once it has a minimum empirical basis, according to certain criteria:

* It is consistent with pre-existing theory, to the extent the pre-existing theory was experimentally verified, though it will often show pre-existing theory to be wrong in an exact sense.
* It is supported by many strands of evidence, rather than a single foundation, ensuring it is probably a good approximation, if not totally correct.

Pay particular attention to the second piece of criteria needed to be met to be classified as a theory.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

because you're using a fictional book as a holy scripture. that is what amuses us. you're amusing to us. your beliefs are funny because we do not take them seriously. it is funny how seriously you're taking it and the fact that you think you're right.

it is just entertainment. you're a big joke :D hope this helps

ps - keep pretending to be successful

Hey dipshit, I was answering your questions. I know that your inability to come up with a rebuttal makes you very defensive and that it is the nature of unintelligent people to then turn around and say, "your a poopy head", but come on...really. I am done with you...TROLL ! ! !

[Henini]

Lastly, who proved the bible to be made up? And what was their basis. If you cannot answer that it isn't true...lol. See I can do it too. And as for not going into details...that is code for I can't look it up on Wiki fast enough so I won't bother...lmao.

like I said, you should look it up since you use it as a guideline for your existence.

I don't have to prove to you, or show you. I know, because I did look into it.

it's all you don on here is say "show me" when the info is out there for everyone.

people like you and rocketmoose give bad name to religions, no matter which one.

I know lots of religious people, priests pastors etc. and some of them also tech science classes, like physics and chemistry.
They are intelligent people and awake enough to dig in and not have blind faith. discussing with them about religion and the trash book that is the bible was interesting. you see, they know it's made up, but they also know it's got good and bad in it, and they choose to look at the good and leave the bad.

Even though they are scientists, they believe there has to be higher power involved. so they are religious, but not oblivious. Unlike you!

I know you will reply saying I'm stupid and I didn't prove anything to you and blah blah blah.
I'm aware I'm stupid, I'm aware I'm not doing your education on a msg board. I am however encouraging you to open your mind enough to go and search for historical facts that historians and smart people (not me or you) have found and documented (not in the bible).

[guineapig]

stuff


For those people that don't realize that this guy is a straight up troll and probably doesn't believe half of the shit he's saying:


I don't even play a druid...nice assumption though. I had one back when live launched. I play a mage, if I play at all.

Oh really?

Does anyone know if there is a link or guide out there for pre-Kunark Druid gear? I have seen one for caster gear on a guild website, but nothing for us Druids. I did look through the forums, but did not see anything. If there is a previous post, I do apologize.

BTW, for you low level Druids out there, there is a magic weapon that is an easy quest at level 6 or so. It is the Jaggedpine Crook quest. The quest starts in Surefall Glade and the mob you need to kill is in Qeynos Hills (a Gnoll Hunter). Most EQ websites will give you specifics regarding the quest. Good luck.

and...

You seem to care what I have to say...lmao. You're a double douche bag Sweet tatter...lol. BTW my character's names are Yam, Yammster, and Yammertooth the wise-ass.

You don't say?

If you want the help of a lowbie druid look me up. My in-game name is Boggwin.

------------------------------------

This guys has BS'd so often on the forums it's mind boggling that so many people are still being baited by him.

Also, normal religious fanatics don't write stuff like this on a forum:

Here is my idea for the best MMO ever.


Ok, so here it goes. It is called Gods Online. You start out a newbie (lvl 1) Demi-God. Your first quest is to speak to the God directly in front of you. This is accomplished by hitting either mouse key or any key on your keyboard. If this is not done within 20 seconds, the game will automatically do it for you. After speaking to the God, you become level 100.

and then go on a religious crusade on the very same forum:
Trolls do though.

[Henini]

Stalin? He didn't kill people while shouting "I'm doing this for atheism!" afaik, but.. he was eradicating the Church to allow for communism.

Now I agree that Communism <> Atheism, but I think your claims above cannot be true. There are far too many human beings for that 'never' to happen.

http://rainbowstalin13.ytmnd.com/

I said that is wasn't done in the name of atheism. I never said that non religious people didn't kill each other or do any kind of atrocities.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theory

Number five as it applies to scientific theory.

Essential criteria:

The defining characteristic of a scientific theory is that it makes falsifiable or testable predictions. The relevance and specificity of those predictions determine how potentially useful the theory is. A would-be theory that makes no predictions that can be observed is not a useful theory. Predictions not sufficiently specific to be tested are similarly not useful. In both cases, the term "theory" is hardly applicable.

In practice a body of descriptions of knowledge is usually only called a theory once it has a minimum empirical basis, according to certain criteria:

* It is consistent with pre-existing theory, to the extent the pre-existing theory was experimentally verified, though it will often show pre-existing theory to be wrong in an exact sense.
* It is supported by many strands of evidence, rather than a single foundation, ensuring it is probably a good approximation, if not totally correct.

Pay particular attention to the second piece of criteria needed to be met to be classified as a theory.

Hahaha. WIKI RULZ.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory"]

Why do you keep defining Theory? Is that your argument against the multitude of things I presented?

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

I said that is wasn't done in the name of atheism. I never said that non religious people didn't kill each other or do any kind of atrocities.

I think you hit the nail on the head...PEOPLE do these things. The ones that are doing those things and claiming to be Christian are not really Christians...therefore you cannot say that they represent Christianity in the matter. That is like saying that fireman are evil, mean people because a man dressed as a fireman went on a killing spree and raped a woman. Never-mind the fact that he wasn't truly a fireman...just one pretending to be.

Talk about fallacious.

[nilbog]

I said that is wasn't done in the name of atheism. I never said that non religious people didn't kill each other or do any kind of atrocities.

I'm not usually one to quote wikipedia, but I also don't know French history that well.

Another anti-clerical uprising was made possible by the installment of the Revolutionary Calendar on 24 October. Hébert's and Chaumette's atheist movement initiated a religious campaign in order to dechristianize society. The program of dechristianization waged against Catholicism, and eventually against all forms of Christianity, included the deportation or execution of clergy; the closing of churches; the rise of cults and the institution of a civic religion; the large scale destruction of religious monuments; the outlawing of public and private worship and religious education; the forced abjurement of priests of their vows and forced marriages of the clergy; the word "saint" being removed from street names; and the War in the Vendée. The enactment of a law on 21 October 1793 made all suspected priests and all persons who harbored them liable to death on sight.

Did these people kill in the name of atheism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

[Hauling]

Hahaha. WIKI RULZ.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory"]

Why do you keep defining Theory? Is that your argument against the multitude of things I presented?

Would you rather I quote conservapedia instead where they consider science a philosophy instead of the method it is? What's wrong with wikipedia? I'd say it's a fair shot more reliable source of information than the bible. Wikipedia is constantly updated by contemporary, living people. I can see who made the edits. I can check their credentials. I can check their sources. Can I say that about the bible?

You have presented nothing and that's the point. You said so yourself when you said you cannot prove there is a god.

I offer you the definition of a theory, because you misrepresented what a theory actually is. Though I will hand it to you, if it's your goal to beat this argument through attrition rather than presenting a logical case. You'll probably succeed.

[soup]

Hahaha. WIKI RULZ.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory"]

Why do you keep defining Theory? Is that your argument against the multitude of things I presented?

It's to continue to demonstrate you have no clue what you're talking about.

Hint: theories do not graduate to laws. They refer to completely different things. Theory is the top of the food chain in regard to what it references. Gravity is theory too, but no one ever pulls the "it's just a THEORY!" card on gravity, lol.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Would you rather I quote conservapedia instead where they consider science a philosophy instead of the method it is? What's wrong with wikipedia? I'd say it's a fair shot more reliable source of information than the bible. Wikipedia is constantly updated by contemporary, living people. I can see who made the edits. I can check their credentials. I can check their sources. Can I say that about the bible?

You have presented nothing and that's the point. You said so yourself when you said you cannot prove there is a god.

I offer you the definition of a theory, because you misrepresented what a theory actually is. Though I will hand it to you, if it's your goal to beat this argument through attrition rather than presenting a logical case. You'll probably succeed.

So this is to make a point regarding my remark about science being a religion? Fine I misspoke regarding the word theory. I am glad you finally decided to argue a point ITT. To bad your point has nothing to do with the several rebuttals to your original arguments. You know...the ones you could not argue against other than to say...eventually science will prove it (maybe not now, but in the future.) Wow, you guys sure did beat me down on that whole science is a religion thing...haha. I am glad you guys could find something you can feel you "won" on. Now what about "Closed System", "True Christians not killing in Christianity's name", "The bible verses" someone wanted explained...etc?

[Slathar]

So this is to make a point regarding my remark about science being a religion? Fine I misspoke regarding the word theory. I am glad you finally decided to argue a point ITT. To bad your point has nothing to do with the several rebuttals to your original arguments. You know...the ones you could not argue against other than to say...eventually science will prove it (maybe not now, but in the future.) Wow, you guys sure did beat me down on that whole science is a religion thing...haha. I am glad you guys could find something you can feel you "won" on. Now what about "Closed System", "True Christians not killing in Christianity's name", "The bible verses" someone wanted explained...etc?

burden of proof is on you, not us. you've proven nothing except that you don't understand what a theory is and are insufferably smug about being stupid.

please continue entertaining us kiddo :D

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Would you rather I quote conservapedia instead where they consider science a philosophy instead of the method it is? What's wrong with wikipedia? I'd say it's a fair shot more reliable source of information than the bible. Wikipedia is constantly updated by contemporary, living people. I can see who made the edits. I can check their credentials. I can check their sources. Can I say that about the bible?

You have presented nothing and that's the point. You said so yourself when you said you cannot prove there is a god.

I offer you the definition of a theory, because you misrepresented what a theory actually is. Though I will hand it to you, if it's your goal to beat this argument through attrition rather than presenting a logical case. You'll probably succeed.

Maybe this will explain about wiki...I found this online.

A vast majority of the responses on Y.A. use wikipedia as a source. Do they not realize a lot of the information on their website is incorrect/false? At the college level, professors will not except quotes from wikipedia. In general, have people become so lazy that internet searches are all about the first hit/result? Why use a source that in many cases is not credible?

P.S. if you didn't realize anyone can add information on wikipedia.

[soup]

So this is to make a point regarding my remark about science being a religion? Fine I misspoke regarding the word theory. I am glad you finally decided to argue a point ITT. To bad your point has nothing to do with the several rebuttals to your original arguments. You know...the ones you could not argue against other than to say...eventually science will prove it (maybe not now, but in the future.) Wow, you guys sure did beat me down on that whole science is a religion thing...haha. I am glad you guys could find something you can feel you "won" on. Now what about "Closed System", "True Christians not killing in Christianity's name", "The bible verses" someone wanted explained...etc?

Disproving the bible makes as much sense as disproving The Lord of the Rings.

Prove Mordor isn't real. Go ahead.

Oh, wait, that's right. It's not possible to prove a negative.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

burden of proof is on you, not us. you've proven nothing except that you don't understand what a theory is and are insufferably smug about being stupid.

please continue entertaining us kiddo :D

Slathar, you don't even matter ITT. You are just trolling and offer nothing. You have proven that you don't know anything at all...nada. nothing. You talk about being amusing and entertaining...lmao. And you must be really old to think a 39 year old is a kid. NEXT ! !

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Disproving the bible makes as much sense as disproving The Lord of the Rings.

Prove Mordor isn't real. Go ahead.

Oh, wait, that's right. It's not possible to prove a negative.

Now what about "Closed System", "True Christians not killing in Christianity's name", "The bible verses" someone wanted explained...etc?


I am waiting. Got nothing? Thought so.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Well, I am off for the day. Got to catch a flight. Have fun. I will pray for you all. Jesus be with you.

[Slathar]

Well, I am off for the day. Got to catch a flight. Have fun. I will pray for you all. Jesus be with you.

thats code that his grandma needs to use the trailer's only computer

[guineapig]

So, Boggin is actually just a retard? I was like "I got trolled, son." until this last page. Rule #1 of internet trolling is to never reveal that you're a troll. Going "LOL U GOT TROLLED" defeats the whole purpose.

I would normally agree, but it was getting painful seeing these people keep replying to my post. It was like watching a little bird that kept flying into a window pane. Eventually you need to tell the poor thing that there is a window there or it will just keep doing it...haha.


You all been trolled...

[Henini]

I'm not usually one to quote wikipedia, but I also don't know French history that well.



Did these people kill in the name of atheism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

I stand corrected I guess.

But we both know clergy was pushing it's fat aggression on people. They revolted and tried getting rid of them. For the right to not burn at the stake for not going around treating every clergymen as gods.

in other words, they had it coming.

but like I said, I stand corrected.

[chtulu]

The temptation [to attribute the appearance of a design to actual design itself] is a false one, because the designer hypothesis immediately raises the larger problem of who designed the designer.

The whole problem we started out with was the problem of explaining statistical improbability. It is obviously no solution to postulate something even more improbable.

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

Also, here are 4 points that I'm sure the faithful will enjoy huffing about.


1. Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.

2. Natural selection and similar scientific theories are superior to a "God hypothesis" —the illusion of intelligent design— in explaining the living world and the cosmos.

3. Children should not be labelled by their parents' religion. Terms like "Catholic child" or "Muslim child" should make people cringe.

4. Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind.

[Harrison]

The temptation [to attribute the appearance of a design to actual design itself] is a false one, because the designer hypothesis immediately raises the larger problem of who designed the designer.

The whole problem we started out with was the problem of explaining statistical improbability. It is obviously no solution to postulate something even more improbable.

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

Also, here are 4 points that I'm sure the faithful will enjoy huffing about.


1. Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.

2. Natural selection and similar scientific theories are superior to a "God hypothesis" —the illusion of intelligent design— in explaining the living world and the cosmos.

3. Children should not be labelled by their parents' religion. Terms like "Catholic child" or "Muslim child" should make people cringe.

4. Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind.

You're not fucking intelligent.

You're just DIRECTLY copy/pasting Wikipedia in an attempt to sound smart. You are essentially a brainless slob.

You're too dumb to take part in this debate/discussion so get the fuck out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion

At the end of chapter 4, Why there almost certainly is no God, Dawkins sums up his argument and states, "The temptation [to attribute the appearance of a design to actual design itself] is a false one, because the designer hypothesis immediately raises the larger problem of who designed the designer. The whole problem we started out with was the problem of explaining statistical improbability. It is obviously no solution to postulate something even more improbable."[20] In addition, chapter 4 asserts that the alternative to the designer hypothesis is not chance, but natural selection.

[nilbog]

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

Yes.

1. Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.'The Faithful' can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually-fulfilled.

2. Natural selection and similar scientific theories are superior to a "God hypothesis" —the illusion of intelligent design— in explaining the living world and the cosmos.Natural selection and similar scientific theories can go hand in hand with intelligent design. People can believe in science as well as a God.

3. Children should not be labelled by their parents' religion. Terms like "Catholic child" or "Muslim child" should make people cringe.By that same note, children shouldn't be labeled by their parent's finances. Terms like "Middle class child", "Upper class child", should make people cringe as well.


4. Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind.The evidence of a healthy, independent mind is a healthy, independent mind.

[Harrison]

Reformatting what you copy/pasted in an attempt to look like you wrote it yourself, fucking fail.

[Harrison]

Reformatting what you copy/pasted in an attempt to look like you wrote it yourself, fucking fail.

This was in reference to fuckface mcretard up there, not you Nilbog.

[chtulu]

Good, you actually looked something up, now actually read the whole book. The topics were posted to bring up more discussion. Harrison, though, still can't get away from the ad homiems and still hasn't brought anything to the entire 82 page thread. Unless you call Harrison insulting and personally attacking people some kind of great insight.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Well I guess you are far superior in you thinking to the other 5,793,732,000 on this planet that believe in God. I feel blessed being in the presence of such an awe inspiring being such as you...someone with all the answers...lol. JK. I'll stick with God if you don't mind.

There are about two billion Christians, about a billion and a half Moslems, and about thirteen million Jews. Even if you group yourself with both of those, that's about half the world's population. There are literally billions of people who do not believe in your sky god.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Sad, with a side of fail-sauce...hahaha. No, you would rather live your life as though you are the all-knowing being that somehow has it right when the vast majority of the world (84%) has it wrong. You must think highly of yourself...lol.

Let me ask you this. Let us assume that there was a big bang (talk about having faith!). Where did all that matter come from? Did it just pop into being? It wasn't created at all? It just came into existence? (once again, talk about faith!)

Again: 84% of the world does not believe in your sky god.

[Hauling]

Well, I am off for the day. Got to catch a flight. Have fun. I will pray for you all. Jesus be with you.

Take care and have a safe flight!

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Again: 84% of the world does not believe in your sky god.

84% of the people in the world believe in a religion.

this is the religon ranked by size
33% are christians
21% are Muslims
16% are nonreligous
14% are Hindus
6% are the many traditonal african religons
6% Chinese traditional religons
6% are Buddists
0.36% are sikism belivers
and the rest is other

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Population of the world:

6897390179

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

number of people who believe in GOD...5793807750.36

Number who don't...965634625...not even 1 billion.

Outnumbered by over 5 to 1.

So sorry...you fail.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Take care and have a safe flight!

Stupid thing got delay cause of the weather, but thanks. Hopefully I will get out tonight. Otherwise I will have to do one of those stupid video meeting things. I hate those. I always feel like the ones that made the meeting are having all the fun while I sit in my office and stare at the screen...lol.

[Harrison]

Good, you actually looked something up, now actually read the whole book. The topics were posted to bring up more discussion. Harrison, though, still can't get away from the ad homiems and still hasn't brought anything to the entire 82 page thread. Unless you call Harrison insulting and personally attacking people some kind of great insight.

You aren't even in the same league as I am intellectually. You got caught copy/pasting and all you had to say was, "I did it to bring up more discussion."

I respond in kind to people who are clearly free thinking, and not copy/pasting wikipedia bullshit they don't even understand.

I quite regularly talk with friends about things of this nature, and I can assure you that you're a vacuous monkey in terms of intellectual debate. I don't feel the need to "discuss" this with you and haven't for 90% of this thread. My sole purpose has been to point out how fucking dumb you are because, ignorance disgusts me.

[Alawen Everywhere]

84% of the people in the world believe in a religion.

this is the religon ranked by size
33% are christians
21% are Muslims
16% are nonreligous
14% are Hindus
6% are the many traditonal african religons
6% Chinese traditional religons
6% are Buddists
0.36% are sikism belivers
and the rest is other

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Population of the world:

6897390179

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

number of people who believe in GOD...5793807750.36

Number who don't...965634625...not even 1 billion.

Outnumbered by over 5 to 1.

So sorry...you fail.

In your world Hindus and Buddhists believe in your sky god? You're fascinating.

What happened to the flight you had to catch? Grandma done with the computer?

I'd love to continue bickering with your nonsense but Kristin Kreuk just walked into my bedroom and wants to give me a blow job!

P.S. Did Nilbog just indicate that he believes in intelligent design? Fuck, Kunark isn't ever coming out.

[chtulu]

You aren't even in the same league as I am intellectually. You got caught copy/pasting and all you had to say was, "I did it to bring up more discussion."

I respond in kind to people who are clearly free thinking, and not copy/pasting wikipedia bullshit they don't even understand.

I quite regularly talk with friends about things of this nature, and I can assure you that you're a vacuous monkey in terms of intellectual debate. I don't feel the need to "discuss" this with you and haven't for 90% of this thread. My sole purpose has been to point out how fucking dumb you are because, ignorance disgusts me.


You think I am dumb, therefore I must be ignorant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

This also works in this argument. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

In your world Hindus and Buddhists believe in your sky god? You're fascinating.

What happened to the flight you had to catch? Grandma done with the computer?

I'd love to continue bickering with your nonsense but Kristin Kreuk just walked into my bedroom and wants to give me a blow job!

P.S. Did Nilbog just indicate that he believes in intelligent design? Fuck, Kunark isn't ever coming out.

The title of the thread deals with believing in GOD...make the distinction and move on...lol. Sorry your numbers about the billions of people that don't believe in God don't add up. Guess you were not good in math...lol. Secondly if you can read the above post you would see that my flight was delayed due to weather. (Guess you were not good in reading either.) It happens, not that I would expect someone who has never flown on a plane to know that. Lastly, I did not know that Kristin was a guys name. haha.

[Harrison]

Ignorance is self-inflicted. You have no excuse for being as close-minded as you are in this day and age with access to the internet and the wealth of information you so happily spam all over this thread.

You're a moron.

[Hauling]

I'd love to continue bickering with your nonsense but Kristin Kreuk just walked into my bedroom and wants to give me a blow job!

You lucky son of a bitch!

/rude

[guineapig]

Buddhism is not a religion...

[purist]

I stand corrected I guess.

But we both know clergy was pushing it's fat aggression on people. They revolted and tried getting rid of them. For the right to not burn at the stake for not going around treating every clergymen as gods.

in other words, they had it coming.

but like I said, I stand corrected.

The Enlightenment was a reaction to to the intolerance and anti-intellectualism of the church, yes. But it also ended up with cults like the Jacobins, who killed priests or anyone harboring them on sight, who outlawed private worship, and literally celebrated a goddess they called "reason." That isn't rational or scientific. It's insanity. Fundamentalism, whether its coloring is secular or religious, is the same disease. Whenever you get a group of fundamentalists together, it's always a short step until they arrive at the brilliant idea that "well, if we can't make certain segments of society 'civilized' (in the way we define civilization), then they must be eradicated."

[Henini]

Yes.


Natural selection and similar scientific theories can go hand in hand withe intelligent design. People can believe in science as well as a God.


Believing in god and believing in creationism are on different scales there.

The "I'm a scientist, I believe in reason and logic and facts. but there has to be something more to life" is one type of believer.

I don't really have a word for creationism that isn't demeaning. I'm sorry...

But they teach it in school in the states so it has to be true.

And people can not believe in science and in creationism no. they are in conflict, to believe in creationism you have to be newborn or have been kept in a box all your life.

[Henini]

The Enlightenment was a reaction to to the intolerance and anti-intellectualism of the church, yes. But it also ended up with cults like the Jacobins, who killed priests or anyone harboring them on sight, who outlawed private worship, and literally celebrated a goddess they called "reason." That isn't rational or scientific. It's insanity. Fundamentalism, whether its coloring is secular or religious, is the same disease. Whenever you get a group of fundamentalists together, it's always a short step until they arrive at the brilliant idea that "well, if we can't make certain segments of society 'civilized' (in the way we define civilization), then they must be eradicated."
I must have that disease then!

fuck I hate bad drivers

[nilbog]

P.S. Did Nilbog just indicate that he believes in intelligent design? Fuck, Kunark isn't ever coming out.

I didn't indicate anything other than having an open mind and objective opinion.

Believing in god and believing in creationism are on different scales there.

The "I'm a scientist, I believe in reason and logic and facts. but there has to be something more to life" is one type of believer.

I don't really have a word for creationism that isn't demeaning. I'm sorry...

But they teach it in school in the states so it has to be true.

And people can not believe in science and in creationism no. they are in conflict, to believe in creationism you have to be newborn or have been kept in a box all your life.

so it has to be people can not believeyou have to beor have been It is exceedingly hard to debate with you if you generalize everything with absolutes, because that's crazy. With almost 7 billion humans on earth, you are not going to convince me otherwise.

[Kassel]

And people can not believe in science and in creationism no. they are in conflict, to believe in creationism you have to be newborn or have been kept in a box all your life.

I do not believe that any religion on earth is correct. But i do believe that a person can believe in science and creationism at the same time. I do not, but i can see how others could. one could argue that God created the scientific laws that govern the universe etc..

I do not believe that the existence of a God is impossible just implausible. I do believe that 100% of religion is man made bull shit designed to give power to individuals and to provide easy answers to hard questions (a wizard did it)

I guess i would call myself an agnostic, in that i think there could be something out there but i am unwilling to define it and/or pray to it. In the grand scheme of my short time on this plant and being one of 7 million i don't think it matters at all.

I just find it funny that some people can thank God for the touch down while others will thank God for destroying their enemies scared ground.

I think a dual thread could be made that would seperate the idea of God and Religion. I think religion is horrible and used as a cruch for mass murder and shallow thougth. But thats just me and i dont care if you care/believe/poop in the woods.

[Kassel]

7 million = 7 billion

[Messianic]

Anthony Flew, former Atheist

http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/flew-interview.pdf

FLEW: I think that the most impressive arguments for God’s existence are those that are
supported by recent scientific discoveries. I’ve never been much impressed by the kalam
cosmological argument, and I don’t think it has gotten any stronger recently. However, I think
the argument to Intelligent Design is enormously stronger than it was when I first met it.


FLEW: (...) It seems to me that Richard Dawkins constantly overlooks the fact that
Darwin himself, in the fourteenth chapter of The Origin of Species, pointed out that his whole
argument began with a being which already possessed reproductive powers. This is the creature
the evolution of which a truly comprehensive theory of evolution must give some account.
Darwin himself was well aware that he had not produced such an account. It now seems to me
that the findings of more than fifty years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and
enormously powerful argument to design

This doesn't mean people are young-earth creationists - just because they're open to the idea of intelligent design. Anyone who's spent any real time debating or reading the academics in the field don't waste their time insulting people - they get right to the crux arguments. So get to them - and don't degrade others for having a belief you don't understand, particularly if you're not getting to the facts yourself, or perhaps don't really know them at all.

[Harrison]

What, copy/pasting/plagiarism from wikipedia isn't debate?! WTF?!!!11

[Messianic]

I think a dual thread could be made that would seperate the idea of God and Religion. I think religion is horrible and used as a cruch for mass murder and shallow thougth. But thats just me and i dont care if you care/believe/poop in the woods.

It's true. God and Religion are very different things. Religion is centralized power, and centralized power is the initial catalyst for all oppression.

The idea of God and the choice to believe is present in every individual - religion requires collective coercion.

[yaaaflow]

84% of the people in the world believe in a religion.

this is the religon ranked by size
33% are christians
21% are Muslims
16% are nonreligous
14% are Hindus
6% are the many traditonal african religons
6% Chinese traditional religons
6% are Buddists
0.36% are sikism belivers
and the rest is other

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Population of the world:

6897390179

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

number of people who believe in GOD...5793807750.36

Number who don't...965634625...not even 1 billion.

Outnumbered by over 5 to 1.

So sorry...you fail.

Scientology claims to have 8 million followers worldwide. Since they believe in a higher power (aliens) do they likewise fall under your 84% of the world's population that is right?

[rachel]

For one Bogg is a known troll. He had what a 20page thread months ago and at the end said I'm lying about everything haha trolled you. Than stated his friend and him were laughing so hard. HE"S A CHILD. he's probably atheist and just getting a kick out of this again.

Anyways, I don't believe god created anything. Neither does steven hawking. Kinda odd that the most int. people on the planet a huge majority of them don't believe either.

If there was any , and I mean any proof at all. I would second guess if a god existed.

What if there are MANY gods 10 or 400 or 9999999 of them?

When does space end ?

If this god created the universe. It doesn't care at all about humans or other beings. It doesn't show itself even though it could. It lets nature take it's course , will be the answer as to why so much pain is in the world believers will say. Why we were created with nerve endings and not a different form of signals to the brain.

There is no god, until proven. = There is 0 evidence of a god
There is tons of evidence for science.

I am glad people have hope in something to get them through life. I don't need too and I can not make myself believe a lie. It's impossible. Kids on my bus used to tease me at the age of 6 because I didn't believe in god. I just hope soon we can prove there is none. With all the evidence of HOW the universe was created without a god. They already have it ,, it's almost done. a few more years maybe for the fine details.

I can still be a morally better person than anyone that believes in god.

[rachel]

http://hubblesite.org/hubble_discoveries/dark_energy/

This is NASA's website. This is how NASA believes the universe was created. They are pretty close to smoothing out all the fine details.
That is why Stephan Hawking released his book.
They have enough evidence now that they know" FOR SURE' how the Universe was created.

[Ikkit]

For one Bogg is a known troll. He had what a 20page thread months ago and at the end said I'm lying about everything haha trolled you. Than stated his friend and him were laughing so hard. HE"S A CHILD. he's probably atheist and just getting a kick out of this again.

Anyways, I don't believe god created anything. Neither does steven hawking. Kinda odd that the most int. people on the planet a huge majority of them don't believe either.

If there was any , and I mean any proof at all. I would second guess if a god existed.

What if there are MANY gods 10 or 400 or 9999999 of them?

When does space end ?

If this god created the universe. It doesn't care at all about humans or other beings. It doesn't show itself even though it could. It lets nature take it's course , will be the answer as to why so much pain is in the world believers will say. Why we were created with nerve endings and not a different form of signals to the brain.

There is no god, until proven. = There is 0 evidence of a god
There is tons of evidence for science.

I am glad people have hope in something to get them through life. I don't need too and I can not make myself believe a lie. It's impossible. Kids on my bus used to tease me at the age of 6 because I didn't believe in god. I just hope soon we can prove there is none. With all the evidence of HOW the universe was created without a god. They already have it ,, it's almost done. a few more years maybe for the fine details.

I can still be a morally better person than anyone that believes in god.

http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf

[Harrison]

It's true. God and Religion are very different things. Religion is centralized power, and centralized power is the initial catalyst for all oppression.

The idea of God and the choice to believe is present in every individual - religion requires collective coercion.

That's the best response to that yet. I'm glad someone gets it.

Just because religion is wrong doesn't mean that a belief in some form of either intelligent design, or a deity of some sort, is "stupid".

[Messianic]

Kinda odd that the most int. people on the planet a huge majority of them don't believe either.

John Polkinghorne is a good friend of Stephen Hawkings'. He's one of the leading Quantum Physicists in the world. He is also an ordained Anglican priest. There are giants in the academic world who are theists, and there are giants who are non-theistic.

Well-credentialed people in the hard sciences tend to be agnostic or theist. Well-credentialed people in social sciences or humanities tend to be Atheist.

This:

There is no god, until proven.

Is probably one of the weakest arguments for Atheism. If you want to be a better atheist, there are better ways to approach it.

But the mere position "until you prove it to me, I choose to affirm the non-existence of any divine entity" is to affirm something without any evidence - the non-existence of a divine being.

You're better off remaining a hard agnostic, i.e. "I know that you can't know."

[Autotune]

84 pages of "No! You sir are wrong, and I am correct. Here read my copy/past from Google, it will prove my point."

[Alawen Everywhere]

This doesn't mean people are young-earth creationists - just because they're open to the idea of intelligent design. Anyone who's spent any real time debating or reading the academics in the field don't waste their time insulting people - they get right to the crux arguments. So get to them - and don't degrade others for having a belief you don't understand, particularly if you're not getting to the facts yourself, or perhaps don't really know them at all.

Well-credentialed people in the hard sciences tend to be agnostic or theist. Well-credentialed people in social sciences or humanities tend to be Atheist.

I was curious if you'd weigh in here and what your thoughts would be.

The source of Intelligent Design "theory" is a fundamentalist Christian project called the Discovery Institute. The Discovery Institute commissioned a viable argument for teaching creationism or the "controversy" of evolution in public schools. This culminated in the 1989 publication of "Of Pandas and People," a pseudo-science high school biology text.

The thoughts behind intelligent design have been around since the Greek philosophers. The "proof" of a creator changes from era to era as our understanding of underlying science increases. The most recent arguments center around irreducible complexity, with the most popular example being bacterial flagella. Interestingly enough, these arguments resemble Boggwin's logic of searching for an unknown and claiming that an unknown proves the existence of God. The Discovery Institute avoids naming God and favors the euphemism "the designer."

The big problem with ID is that it doesn't hold up to scientific process. As a theory, it's untestable nature causes it to fail. Its dearth of peer-reviewed publications leaves it with basically William Dembski and Michael Behe to defend it, and even Dembski bailed on testifying about ID after he saw the difficulties Behe had in cross-examination.

One interesting aspect of ID, to me, is lack of acceptance by the Vatican. Catholic policy has slowly evolved (heh) to accept the possibility of Darwin's theories but high-ranking church scholars reject ID. I don't quite understand the reasoning, but it has something to do with the difference between divine causality and created causality.

Personally, I find no credibility whatsoever in any of the origins, objectives or methods of the Discovery Institute. There are no other significant backers of ID. I find the entire project decidedly disingenuous, deceptive and surprisingly un-Christian. I have much more respect for people like RocketMoose who expresses his faith as faith and doesn't try to make it into what it is not.

On the other topic of who tends to be atheistic, theistic or agnostic, you offer some very broad generalizations with no supporting evidence. I think you know this is a completely vapid argument.

[Humerox]

...One interesting aspect of ID, to me, is lack of acceptance by the Vatican. Catholic policy has slowly evolved (heh) to accept the possibility of Darwin's theories but high-ranking church scholars reject ID. I don't quite understand the reasoning, but it has something to do with the difference between divine causality and created causality...


From Communion and Stewardship (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20040723_communion-stewardship_en.html):

it is important to note that, according to the Catholic understanding of divine causality, true contingency in the created order is not incompatible with a purposeful divine providence. Divine causality and created causality radically differ in kind and not only in degree. Thus, even the outcome of a truly contingent natural process can nonetheless fall within God’s providential plan for creation.

Yes...Catholics have their cake and eat it, too...and it's a much more preferable view than the bible thumping "you're goin' to hell fer sayin' we come from monkeys, boy" crowd.

:)

[Nizzarr]

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/atoz/wharrgarbl.jpg

[JayDee]

hey ur ghey

[muddy27]

I believe that aliens created us more than the whole god created us theory, watch ancient aliens on the history channel. Watch both seasons. And also there is life after death and one proof of that is ghosts and spirits may not be heaven but diffrent planes of existence just like this is the earthly plain. Also interesting to note amino acids yes the same amino acids that are found in are body are were also found in some meteors here recently look it up. Its also believed that the earth wasnt originally from this solar system of course thats just speculation. On a side note everyone has a right to believe what they want to even if we dont always agree with them ( the jehovahs witnesses that knocked on my door yesterday) They leave every time without me being converted, the one guy called me to deep a thinker lol.

[Pycoba_rng]

For one Bogg is a known troll. He had what a 20page thread months ago and at the end said I'm lying about everything haha trolled you. Than stated his friend and him were laughing so hard. HE"S A CHILD. he's probably atheist and just getting a kick out of this again.

Anyways, I don't believe god created anything. Neither does steven hawking. Kinda odd that the most int. people on the planet a huge majority of them don't believe either.

If there was any , and I mean any proof at all. I would second guess if a god existed.

What if there are MANY gods 10 or 400 or 9999999 of them?

When does space end ?

If this god created the universe. It doesn't care at all about humans or other beings. It doesn't show itself even though it could. It lets nature take it's course , will be the answer as to why so much pain is in the world believers will say. Why we were created with nerve endings and not a different form of signals to the brain.

There is no god, until proven. = There is 0 evidence of a god
There is tons of evidence for science.

I am glad people have hope in something to get them through life. I don't need too and I can not make myself believe a lie. It's impossible. Kids on my bus used to tease me at the age of 6 because I didn't believe in god. I just hope soon we can prove there is none. With all the evidence of HOW the universe was created without a god. They already have it ,, it's almost done. a few more years maybe for the fine details.

I can still be a morally better person than anyone that believes in god.

This is entirely laughable. Especially the part where you said god doesn't care about human beings... Man kinds worst enemy is himself. You want to be angry at someone? Be angry at yourself. God cares enough about you to let you destroy yourself , rather then wiping you off the face of the planet in a blink of an eye. I laugh at any argument basing man kinds evils and how its god fault. Or how he can prevent them. In this world we are taught to learn from our mistakes. The funny thing is people keep making the same mistakes over and over. We kill , hurt , pillage , and destroy. Maybe when mankind gets his shit togeather and applies the bible to his life. Maybe then god would show himself to you in person. Until that time hes better left silent and in our prayors. If you actually read the bible. You will learn that if people leared from the stories it teaches , not take them at face value , but applied its teaches. The world would be a better place...

[Massive Marc]

This is entirely laughable. Especially the part where you said god doesn't care about human beings... Man kinds worst enemy is himself. You want to be angry at someone? Be angry at yourself. God cares enough about you to let you destroy yourself , rather then wiping you off the face of the planet in a blink of an eye. I laugh at any argument basing man kinds evils and how its god fault. Or how he can prevent them. In this world we are taught to learn from our mistakes. The funny thing is people keep making the same mistakes over and over. We kill , hurt , pillage , and destroy. Maybe when mankind gets his shit togeather and applies the bible to his life. Maybe then god would show himself to you in person. Until that time hes better left silent and in our prayors. If you actually read the bible. You will learn that if people leared from the stories it teaches , not take them at face value , but applied its teaches. The world would be a better place...

A lot of the problems in bold were also done in the name of the Bible and God, so I don't understand what your getting at.

[RocketMoose]

It's true. God and Religion are very different things. Religion is centralized power, and centralized power is the initial catalyst for all oppression.

The idea of God and the choice to believe is present in every individual - religion requires collective coercion.

Well said, and what I've tried to point out many times in this thread. People try to relate the 'church' with God, and while a church may claim to know God, love God, and act in the name of God, there are many times when they are only out for selfish gains, or to make themselves feel better about their actions, whether it be sodomizing little boys, or whatever they choose to support.

This thread makes me really sad to see the shape of people, and how deranged and mislead they are. It makes me want to be able to get through to them, and somewhere deep down I feel like I can, but obviously they are set in their ways, and thus I must not cast my pearls before swine. So conflicted, how to care about people, yet have to walk away when you just see the point of blind hatred is unbreakable.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

A lot of the problems in bold were also done in the name of the Bible and God, so I don't understand what your getting at.

So they were done in the name of the bible. So what? What does that mean? If I went out an killed someone and said that I was doing it in your name, does that mean you sanctioned it? Not at all. Fallacious argument much?

[moklianne]

84 pages of "No! You sir are wrong, and I am correct. Here read my copy/past from Google, it will prove my point."

That's religion for ya.

[Massive Marc]

So they were done in the name of the bible. So what? What does that mean? If I went out an killed someone and said that I was doing it in your name, does that mean you sanctioned it? Not at all. Fallacious argument much?

Have you read the bible ?

[Pycoba_rng]

You can disbelieve god all you want. If more people read the bible and applied its teachings to their life. The world would simply be a better place. Personally I don't believe the stories in the bible. At least not all of them. The Bible itself to me is a guideline to how you should live your life. So whether or not you are religious its a good read. Some of the best stories come out of the bible. I bet everyone could get some good from the bible religous or not. Though the bible was written by man and edited through tons of religious efforts. Its still a darn good book. If people would just do good onto others and forgive people. We could have a closer thing to a spirtual heaven then we have now. The fact of the matter is man is imperfect. For man to improve he needs to accept this and learn from it. God, the bible and its teachings are a good start.

[Lazortag]

If more people read the bible and applied its teachings to their life. The world would simply be a better place. ... The Bible itself to me is a guideline to how you should live your life

[Lazortag]

Oops, I thought you said "not" a guideline. Ignore my silly post!

[Massive Marc]

You can disbelieve god all you want. If more people read the bible and applied its teachings to their life. The world would simply be a better place. Personally I don't believe the stories in the bible. At least not all of them. The Bible itself to me is a guideline to how you should live your life. So whether or not you are religious its a good read. Some of the best stories come out of the bible. I bet everyone could get some good from the bible religous or not. Though the bible was written by man and edited through tons of religious efforts. Its still a darn good book. If people would just do good onto others and forgive people. We could have a closer thing to a spirtual heaven then we have now. The fact of the matter is man is imperfect. For man to improve he needs to accept this and learn from it. God, the bible and its teachings are a good start.

Cool, would you agree that we should apply the teaching in the book of Leviticus ?

[Krimsin]

God is a creation from neurotic human emotion concerning their mortality. Mankind is the result of evolution here on earth. Evolution is a function of nature. God created all functions of nature.

God created itself.

:eek::eek:Mind. Fucking. Blown.:eek::eek:

[Pycoba_rng]

Cool, would you agree that we should apply the teaching in the book of Leviticus ?

It really depends on what section of the book you are referring too. Levitcus itself has been trascribed in well over 20 organized religons and practiced differently. Personally there are great passages in the book. Treat ones neighbor as you would yourself for example. One of the more famous lines from the book. Like all things in the Bible don't ever take anything at face value. Let alone use your common sense on when applying any logic you have recieved from any book. The bible is a old book. The stories are old. Plenty of passages and things can be entirely taken out of context. I believe you should apply the necessary teachings the bible offers. Some people study the bible their entire lifes to try to find its true meaning for themselves. So as far as applying the book Leviticus. I believe you need to apply yourself into spirtual guidance with god before anything.

[Pycoba_rng]

God is a creation from neurotic human emotion concerning their mortality. Mankind is the result of evolution here on earth. Evolution is a function of nature. God created all functions of nature.

God created itself.

:eek::eek:Mind. Fucking. Blown.:eek::eek:

Your knowledge on Evolutoin is so weak its sad. What makes you think any scientific knowledge is worth anything? Do you think the knowledge you preach today will be the same factual evidence in 500 years? One thing remains the same people , will always believe in god. The bible is continue to exsist and be modified and translated. Take your evolution comments to somewhere where it matters. When you can tell me how the earth was formed and why we are here. Maybe then I'll care. Whether or not we evolved from apes or any animal for that matter the question still remains the same. Why? If life is without any sole purpose , I think we are all on the avenue to seak one... Why not god?

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Have you read the bible ?

I have and what does that have to do with my retort?

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Cool, would you agree that we should apply the teaching in the book of Leviticus ?

What part/parts? I can probably assume that you are referring to the parts dealing with homosexuality. If that is the case then I would have to say yes. You should apply it all. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable. No back to the topic at hand...meaning...don't make this into a "homosexuality is cool" thread.

[Massive Marc]

It really depends on what section of the book you are referring too. Levitcus itself has been trascribed in well over 20 organized religons and practiced differently. Personally there are great passages in the book. Treat ones neighbor as you would yourself for example. One of the more famous lines from the book. Like all things in the Bible don't ever take anything at face value. Let alone use your common sense on when applying any logic you have recieved from any book. The bible is a old book. The stories are old. Plenty of passages and things can be entirely taken out of context. I believe you should apply the necessary teachings the bible offers. Some people study the bible their entire lifes to try to find its true meaning for themselves. So as far as applying the book Leviticus. I believe you need to apply yourself into spirtual guidance with god before anything.

Here is my beef with religious nuts like yourself. You claim, to live a fuller life we have to apply the teachings in the bible. I clearly pointed out a book in the bible that is without a doubt fucked and you back peddle by telling me not to take everything at face value. Common sense tells me, I don't need to follow the teaching of a book thats so twisted and hypocritical.

Here is a easy way to a richer, fuller life. It doesn't require a book or you to go anywhere on a Sunday. It's as easy as: Mind your own business and live your life without fucking over someone else. It's that simple.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Cool, would you agree that we should apply the teaching in the book of Leviticus ?

As a question back to you, do you think we should apply the teaching as well?

18:22-4 Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD. Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.


Do you think that is ok too? Just curious if you are only taking up arms about on part of Lev 18, or the whole thing.

[Lazortag]

As a question back to you, do you think we should apply the teaching as well?

18:22-4 Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD. Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.


Do you think that is ok too? Just curious if you are only taking up arms about on part of Lev 18, or the whole thing.

Animals can't consent to sex with people, whereas gays can consent to have sex with other gays. Can you actually postulate a *reason* why homosexuality is so bad, or are you just trolling?

[Lazortag]

Also please justify this passage (deuteronomy 21):

# When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
# And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
# Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
# And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.

You can still be religious and NOT believe in crazy shit like this, you realize?

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Animals can't consent to sex with people, whereas gays can consent to have sex with other gays. Can you actually postulate a *reason* why homosexuality is so bad, or are you just trolling?

So you do agree with that part of the bible yet you would criticize Christians for picking and choosing which parts they believe? Interesting. Hypocrite much?

A person can consent for another to kill him too, does that make murder o.k.? A 12 year old child can consent for a 45 year old to have sex with them, does that make it o.k.?

Move on from the whole gay thing...as I posted before...stay on topic or make a new thread.

[Massive Marc]

As a question back to you, do you think we should apply the teaching as well?

18:22-4 Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD. Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.


Do you think that is ok too? Just curious if you are only taking up arms about on part of Lev 18, or the whole thing.

Listen, If you want to fuck a horse, fuck someone of the same sex, burn your daughter for disrespecting you, whatever else , so be it. It doesn't concern me. Just don't tell me , that I need all that, to live a fuller , richer life.

[Lazortag]

So you do agree with that part of the bible yet you would criticize Christians for picking and choosing which parts they believe? Interesting. Hypocrite much?

A person can consent for another to kill him too, does that make murder o.k.? A 12 year old child can consent for a 45 year old to have sex with them, does that make it o.k.?

Move on from the whole gay thing...as I posted before...stay on topic or make a new thread.

Okay, you have to be trolling. I never said "consent makes things okay", I said "lack of consent makes things not okay". Surely there are things you can consent to that are still wrong. The burden is on you to provide a reason why homosexuality is wrong.

Also, most of what you said was just inaccurate. Firstly, I never said it's not okay for christians to pick and choose what they believe in the bible. Surely an argument could be made for why that's bad, but I think it's worse to believe in all the good and the bad things the bible espouses, than to just believe in the good ones.

Secondly, a 12 year old child can't consent to have a 45 year old have sex with them. We have things called "age of consent" laws, and uh, "statutory rape" to deal with this problem.

Thirdly, it's arguable whether you can truly "consent" to being killed. Some argue that people who are suicidal aren't rational and so aren't meaningfully consenting (just like animals are not meaningfully consenting to sex!). Even if you could consent, we would still find it wrong to kill people who did not consent, so yes, murder is still wrong.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Also please justify this passage (deuteronomy 21):



You can still be religious and NOT believe in crazy shit like this, you realize?

So I see you have you "I am an Atheist and I am cool" talking points out. These verses get kind of tiring after reading them all over and over from you guys...lol. Before I go on let me ask you this. Have you read the bible? All of it? Did you miss the thousands and thousands of verses that deal with things you would consider good? Just curious.

Ok in response, do I agree with the verse morally? No. But who am I to question what God choose to do throughout history? And BTW you misunderstand. The law was given specifically to the Jew during a specific time period.

Jesus told the "Jews" (not Christians) in the gospels that He did not come to do away with the law-but that he was the law. He is what the law was about-righteousness.

It was only after the Jews "rejected" Jesus and had Him crucified that the law was abolished. When he rose from the grave-then a "new" covenant (agreement-contract) came into existence. This new covenant is for everyone who will believe- not just the Jew.

Unfortunately-since the Jews do not believe in Jesus, then this new covenant does not work for them- they believe they are still under the old law. Christians never were under the law. The law was abolished before there were any Christians.

Remember- when Jesus was talking in the gospels-it was Old Testament times. It was not until Pentecost and the giving of the Holy Spirit that Christianity was born.

Does that help?

[Lazortag]

So I see you have you "I am an Atheist and I am cool" talking points out. These verses get kind of tiring after reading them all over and over from you guys...lol. Before I go on let me ask you this. Have you read the bible? All of it? Did you miss the thousands and thousands of verses that deal with things you would consider good? Just curious.

Ok in response, do I agree with the verse morally? No. But who am I to question what God choose to do throughout history? And BTW you misunderstand. The law was given specifically to the Jew during a specific time period.

Jesus told the "Jews" (not Christians) in the gospels that He did not come to do away with the law-but that he was the law. He is what the law was about-righteousness.

It was only after the Jews "rejected" Jesus and had Him crucified that the law was abolished. When he rose from the grave-then a "new" covenant (agreement-contract) came into existence. This new covenant is for everyone who will believe- not just the Jew.

Unfortunately-since the Jews do not believe in Jesus, then this new covenant does not work for them- they believe they are still under the old law. Christians never were under the law. The law was abolished before there were any Christians.

Remember- when Jesus was talking in the gospels-it was Old Testament times. It was not until Pentecost and the giving of the Holy Spirit that Christianity was born.

Does that help?

Leviticus is from the old testament too. So basically, you're trolling. I feel stupid for ever having responded to you.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

[QUOTE=Lazortag;216215]Okay, you have to be trolling. I never said "consent makes things okay", I said "lack of consent makes things not okay". Surely there are things you can consent to that are still wrong. The burden is on you to provide a reason why homosexuality is wrong.

Also, most of what you said was just inaccurate. Firstly, I never said it's not okay for christians to pick and choose what they believe in the bible. Surely an argument could be made for why that's bad, but I think it's worse to believe in all the good and the bad things the bible espouses, than to just believe in the good ones.

Secondly, a 12 year old child can't consent to have a 45 year old have sex with them. We have things called "age of consent" laws, and uh, "statutory rape" to deal with this problem.

Thirdly, it's arguable whether you can truly "consent" to being killed. Some argue that people who are suicidal aren't rational and so aren't meaningfully consenting (just like animals are not meaningfully consenting to sex!). Even if you could consent, we would still find it wrong to

So I am trolling because you don't agree with me...grow up son.

Secondly up until the early part of the 20th century 12 was the age of consent. Some regions of the World do not even have an age of consent. So answer the question.

I am not going into the who gay thing...that was all you...now start a new thread and stop trolling the subject.

[Tumdumm]

For one Bogg is a known troll.

rachel warned you all

like, yesterday

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Leviticus is from the old testament too. So basically, you're trolling. I feel stupid for ever having responded to you.

No you feel stupid cause you got pwned. I know it was from the O.T. but you asked me a question on my opinion. How is that trolling. Once again, just because you don't agree with someone does not mean they are trolling...so grow up....TROLL. (see I can call you one too.)

[Slathar]

boggwin's a shitty troll and shitty everquest player lawl

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

rachel warned you all

like, yesterday

Hey genius...why not look back through all the pages ITT and see the many many thought out responses to questions I have posted. Just because I trolled a bunch of potheads long ago, does not mean that I am in ITT. Think, and read before you post.

[Henini]

As a question back to you, do you think we should apply the teaching as well?

18:22-4 Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD. Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.


Do you think that is ok too? Just curious if you are only taking up arms about on part of Lev 18, or the whole thing.

you need the bible to tell you not to have sex with animals to know it's not ok?


lol thank god you have the bible. (yes I said thank god)

[Tumdumm]

oh i've read it all, unfortunately

and re-reading it won't un-waste my time

[Tumdumm]

/\ talking about this thread

also read the other thing, wasn't as big of a waste of time as the thread

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

you need the bible to tell you not to have sex with animals to know it's not ok?


lol thank god you have the bible. (yes I said thank god)

Did I say that? No. That is you once again trying to be funny. I guess I finally understand why you guys are atheist. You cannot read an internet thread, how can I expect you to read the bible...lol. And for being able to understand something, you cannot even understand the scientific concepts you hold so dear...haha. You Atheist are all the same. You mock what you do not understand. You make fun of those who believe and through it all you talk about how much more "evolved" you are than those who have faith. So the pinnacle of human evolution is to be an illiterate, moron who is incapable of critical thinking? God help us...and yes I said GOD !

[guineapig]

http://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry/upload/2006/07/troll3u.JPG

[Massive Marc]

Did I say that? No. That is you once again trying to be funny. I guess I finally understand why you guys are atheist. You cannot read an internet thread, how can I expect you to read the bible...lol. And for being able to understand something, you cannot even understand the scientific concepts you hold so dear...haha. You Atheist are all the same. You mock what you do not understand. You make fun of those who believe and through it all you talk about how much more "evolved" you are than those who have faith. So the pinnacle of human evolution is to be an illiterate, moron who is incapable of critical thinking? God help us...and yes I said GOD !

Setting aside your sweeping generalization about atheists and your ironic comment about capable thinking, I have one questions for you before I leave this thread.

Can you explain what I am to understand about the bible that is so mind blowing that only you and other fanatics know ?

[Krimsin]

Your knowledge on Evolutoin is so weak its sad. What makes you think any scientific knowledge is worth anything?

How would you know what I know about evolution? When did I ever invoke science? Are you seriously trying to argue a case for creationism? I think you'd have better luck accepting the repeatable and testable truths that genetic studies have yielded and along with them, the idea that the Bible contains metaphors rather than interpreting it word for word.

Do you think the knowledge you preach today will be the same factual evidence in 500 years? One thing remains the same people , will always believe in god.

Probably not, but from St. Thomas Aquinas to Ira Herskowitz the basics have remained the same. Mutation has remained the backbone of evolution.

I can say similar things about the history of war. Just because they are a pervasive form of the human condition it doesn't necessarily make them hold any universal truth, nor any real value to our world. Ignorance is a condition of birth.

The bible is continue to exsist and be modified and translated. Take your evolution comments to somewhere where it matters. When you can tell me how the earth was formed and why we are here. Maybe then I'll care. Whether or not we evolved from apes or any animal for that matter the question still remains the same. Why? If life is without any sole purpose , I think we are all on the avenue to seak one... Why not god?

What you are attempting to discuss through this jungle of grammatical and spelling errors seems to be that you are curious about our inherrent curiousity concerning our existence.

Only insecure people are out seeking a truth to life. And there are MANY insecure and neurotic people. We are pant wearing monkeys with the same tendencies. Understand that, and all the questions become much clearer.

[Humerox]

I think a lot of people in this thread are confusing atheism with not believing in fairy tales.

*shrug*

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Setting aside your sweeping generalization about atheists and your ironic comment about capable thinking, I have one questions for you before I leave this thread.

Can you explain what I am to understand about the bible that is so mind blowing that only you and other fanatics know ?

Ironic comment about "capable thinking"? I thought I wrote "critical thinking" you just proved that you do not or cannot read. Sweeping generalization indeed...haha.

(And if you would READ past post you would see that I was the one that applied critical thinking to the whole, Universe is more than likely an open system, thing. Thus negating the argument of the First Law of Thermodynamics applying to our Universe, thus negating the argument that matter has always "just" existed, thus opening the question of Who or what created all the matter in your "Big Bang".)

Lastly, No...I cannot. It is something you have to find out for yourself, and since I see you are not willing to give it a go, I will pray for you. ;)

Adios Atheist. Hope you get it figured out before it is too late.

[muddy27]

Alien Referance in the Bible:

Ezekiel CH 1 verse 4: I looked, and saw a windstorm coming out of the north an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In apperance thier form was that of a man, but each of them had four faces and four wings. Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished brozne.
verse 8: they had the hands of a man....
verse 12: without turning as they went ( we know alien spacecraft can move in pinpoint stop on a dime direction at incredible speeds.)
verse 14: the creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning
verse 24: When the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings like the roar of rushing waters..... (alien crafts back then could have made more sound than they do now because no they are mostly silent)
In conclusion the bible isnt really what people think it is and you have to think if the ancient peoples came in contact with aliens and saw there spacecraft they would think it was some kind of GOD just as we would be amazed today at the sight of seeing such things even though the government has covered it up for 60 years. There are also alot of conflicting scriptures within the bible as well. People take the bible in diffrent ways and they view it in diffrent ways. I know a little bit about the greys which are a common alien race that we know of in movies etc they are mostly the abductee's that abduct humans and perform experiements on them. Its rumored they have no internal organs and can communicate telepathically through thought and regenerate by sitting in pure beams of light. So in final conclusion I believe in aliens over any type of god although I cant prove or disprove the existance of any god or gods because I like other human beings dont have all the answers.

[Slathar]

Ironic comment about "capable thinking"? I thought I wrote "critical thinking" you just proved that you do not or cannot read. Sweeping generalization indeed...haha.

(And if you would READ past post you would see that I was the one that applied critical thinking to the whole, Universe is more than likely an open system, thing. Thus negating the argument of the First Law of Thermodynamics applying to our Universe, thus negating the argument that matter has always "just" existed, thus opening the question of Who or what created all the matter in your "Big Bang".)

Lastly, No...I cannot. It is something you have to find out for yourself, and since I see you are not willing to give it a go, I will pray for you. ;)

Adios Atheist. Hope you get it figured out before it is too late.

listen to this fat guy attempting to troll, lol

[Massive Marc]

Ironic comment about "capable thinking"? I thought I wrote "critical thinking" you just proved that you do not or cannot read. Sweeping generalization indeed...haha.

(And if you would READ past post you would see that I was the one that applied critical thinking to the whole, Universe is more than likely an open system, thing. Thus negating the argument of the First Law of Thermodynamics applying to our Universe, thus negating the argument that matter has always "just" existed, thus opening the question of Who or what created all the matter in your "Big Bang".)

Lastly, No...I cannot. It is something you have to find out for yourself, and since I see you are not willing to give it a go, I will pray for you. ;)

Adios Atheist. Hope you get it figured out before it is too late.

LOL , How did I know that was going to be your answer.

[Abysis]

holy shit this is hard to follow, 89 pages!, someone summarize!

[Slathar]

holy shit this is hard to follow, 89 pages!, someone summarize!

idiotic christians trying to justify belief in something that doesnt exist while getting trolled hard by random people throughout

[Psionide]

no just idiots trying to push their beliefs and opinions on each other

[Pycoba_rng]

Here is my beef with religious nuts like yourself. You claim, to live a fuller life we have to apply the teachings in the bible. I clearly pointed out a book in the bible that is without a doubt fucked and you back peddle by telling me not to take everything at face value. Common sense tells me, I don't need to follow the teaching of a book thats so twisted and hypocritical.

Here is a easy way to a richer, fuller life. It doesn't require a book or you to go anywhere on a Sunday. It's as easy as: Mind your own business and live your life without fucking over someone else. It's that simple.

Religous nut? Who the hell said i was a nut about my religion? Your mad because your pointless views have no meaning in your life. You had to take the time to come up with your own belief system just to tell people why you don't believe in god. People like you are more ought to be assholes then others. If you can't clearly see the bible for what it teaches your ignorant. Do good onto others as you would yourself? Is that a hard concept? Forgiveness? Being kind? You moch the bible and take things to literal. The bible is far from perfect it was written by man. The thing about the bible is your suppose to study it. Develope your own belief system. Its a guide to how to live your life. Twisted and hypocritical? Can you name a better book on how to live your life? Who has written a better book? I can point many things out in the bible that are laughable and a joke. A man living for 900 years??? Your arguments are so ridiculous. You confine god and religion to a simple ruleset. You call people for being hypocritcal for having their own fine tuned belief system. Everyone believes in god differently. No two people are alike. Everyones relationship with god is different. Is this a hard concept for you?

[Pycoba_rng]

The funny thing is. You don't believe in god... Thefore anything you say about him and the bible means jack shit. Usually before you argue on a subject matter , you should probably have a background in it. How long have you studied the bible or religon for that matter? What books have you read? Your telling me you base your entire belief system on science or modern logic? Don't argue with those that know god or the bible. When you know nuthing about it. You don't even have a relationship with god. Your arguments and words are meaningless. Clearly you thought this through and questioned god way to many times. You should find the courage to put your money where you mouth is. Attend a church study the bible for a couple years. Maybe then you could have a say in a argument. For now your talk is cheap and meaningless to anyone who disagrees with you. The only people you will find that agree are ignorant people who have yet to discover any good that comes from bibles and religon.

[nalkin]

Can you name a better book on how to live your life? Who has written a better book?

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671723650

[Pycoba_rng]

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671723650

Cute. Why don't you compare this books sales with the bible. You can't compete.

[nalkin]

Cute. Why don't you compare this books sales with the bible. You can't compete.

You should compare their reviews bro. Let me quote one for ya,

"This book will still be read, remembered and loved by many generations to come. Having read it multiple times, in 2 languages, it is undoubtedly the BEST book I've ever read...If you read any book in your life, make it this one. You can learn everything about the world..."

However good the bible is, you have to admit, this book is better.

[Pycoba_rng]

You should compare their reviews bro. Let me quote one for ya,

"This book will still be read, remembered and loved by many generations to come. Having read it multiple times, in 2 languages, it is undoubtedly the BEST book I've ever read...If you read any book in your life, make it this one. You can learn everything about the world..."

However good the bible is, you have to admit, this book is better.

I think the majority of the world including the author would agree the bible is better.

[Slathar]

I think the majority of the world including the author would agree the bible is better.

the bible is all horseshit fairy tales a child might believe in. kind of like the tooth fairy, santa clause, and the easter bunny.

what does that make you?

[soup]

I think the majority of the world including the author would agree the bible is better.

FYI the majority of the world doesn't believe the bible fairy tales.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I was raised extremely religiously. Two things caused me to utterly and complete lose faith. The first is that God never answered my prayers. Not once.

The second is that I read the bible. To wit:

What emotion should Christians feel toward God?

Christians are to love God.

Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. –Deuteronomy 6:5

Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” –Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27

Christians are to fear God.

Fear the LORD your God, serve him only –Deuteronomy 6:13

The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread –Isaiah 8:13

But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. –Luke 12:5

And always remember…

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. –1 John 4:18

According to Jesus, he came only for the faithful Jews of Israel. Not the Gentile “dogs”.

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession.”

Jesus answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.”
—Matthew 15:24

According to Paul, Jesus came for all people.

For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
—Romans 10:12-13

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
—Romans 1:16

How are people saved?

Salvation comes by faith alone apart from actions and deeds.

“On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.” –Romans 3:27-28

“know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.” –Galatians 2:16

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” –John 3:16

Salvation comes by following every Old Testament Law and teaching these laws with righteousness surpassing a Pharisee.

“I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” –Matthew 5:17-20

Salvation comes through works, faith alone is not enough. You must prove your faith through action to earn salvation.

“In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” –James 2:17

“You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” –James 2:24

Salvation comes by being baptized, confessing your sins and repeatedly begging God for forgiveness.

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.” –1 John 1:9-10

“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” –Acts 2:38

“Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.” –Acts 3:19-20

Salvation comes by not being financially rich.

“I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” –Matthew 19:23-24

Salvation comes by eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking his blood.

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” –John 6:53-54

Was Jesus good? Was he sinless?

No. Jesus was not good.

The synoptic Gospels all agree:

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good.”
-Matthew 19:16-17

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.”
-Mark 10:17-18

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.”
-Luke 18:18-19

Yes. Jesus was sinless.

Jesus said to them, … “Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?”
-John 8:42-46

But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
-1 John 3:5

Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. “He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”
-1 Peter 2:21-22

We do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.
-Hebrews 4:14-16

How should a faithful Christian interact with non-believers?

Never partner or have fellowship with an unbeliever.

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2 Corinthians 6:14

Never talk to or welcome unbelievers because they are wicked.

Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
2 John 1:9-11

Talk to unbelievers and be prepared to respectfully answer their questions.

Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
Colossians 4:5-6

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.
1 Peter 3:15

Speak gibberish to unbelievers. (speak in tounges)

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.
1 Corinthians 14:22

… or Kill them.

They agreed that anyone who refused to seek the LORD, the God of Israel, would be put to death—whether young or old, man or woman.
2 Chronicles 15:13

Jesus came to save the world, not judge it. Even those who do not follow his teaching.

“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.

John 12:47

Jesus came to judge the earth and condemn all people who do not follow his teaching.

Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

John 9:39

Does God ever feel shame and repent for his mistakes? Or is he a perfect God?

God is perfect. His ways and his word are without flaw.

As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless.
2 Samuel 22:31, Psalm 18:30

He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
Deuteronomy 32:4

God apologizes, feels shame, feels regret, repents for his mistakes and openly admits that sometimes his perfect plan isn’t so perfect.

The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.“
Genesis 6:7

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Exodus 32:14

And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
1 Samuel 15:35

The LORD said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?

Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous.”

Then Abraham said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?” He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

When the LORD had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.
Genesis 18:17, 20, 32-33

God is good to all and has a plan for your life.

Psalm 145:9
The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

God is not good to all, cursing, destroying and deceiving certain people.

Jeremiah 13:14
I will smash them one against the other, fathers and sons alike, declares the LORD. I will allow no pity or mercy or compassion to keep me from destroying them.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

John 12:40
The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts—so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.

Romans 9:18
So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.

According to the Apostle Paul:

If your goal is to please people, you are not a servant of Jesus.

Obviously, I’m not trying to win the approval of people, but of God. If pleasing people were my goal, I would not be Christ’s servant.

Galatians 1:10

Try to please everyone in everything you do.

I, too, try to please everyone in everything I do. I don’t just do what is best for me; I do what is best for others so that many may be saved.

1 Corinthians 10:33

Each person dies for his or her own sin. A parent’s punishment for sin is not handed down to his children.

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

–Deuteronomy 24:16

Children are punished and slaughtered for the sins of their parents. The punishment is inherited and handed down to many generations of the family.

Prepare a place to slaughter his sons for the sins of their forefathers; they are not to rise to inherit the land and cover the earth with their cities.

–Isaiah 14:21

He does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.

–Exodus 34:7

No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation.

–Deuteronomy 23:2

I think you get the idea. Incoming: rationalizations from people who pretend words have no meaning.

[chtulu]

I was raised extremely religiously. Two things caused me to utterly and complete lose faith. The first is that God never answered my prayers. Not once.

The second is that I read the bible. To wit:




Alawen, you should know by now any religious person can refute your points by the process of cherry picking. Just how religious people ask how atheists could have morals without religion. Then they further show their arrogance by saying that the bible lays out all the moral pathway anyone would ever need. The funny thing is that they don't realize that the moral codes from the bible are actually reflected by the changing general consensus of society and culture.

[Slathar]

its because theyre insane, brainwashed, or dumb. or all 3.

[Pycoba_rng]

I was raised extremely religiously. Two things caused me to utterly and complete lose faith. The first is that God never answered my prayers. Not once.

The second is that I read the bible. To wit:

What emotion should Christians feel toward God?

Christians are to love God.

Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. –Deuteronomy 6:5

Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” –Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27

Christians are to fear God.

Fear the LORD your God, serve him only –Deuteronomy 6:13

The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread –Isaiah 8:13

But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. –Luke 12:5

And always remember…

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. –1 John 4:18

According to Jesus, he came only for the faithful Jews of Israel. Not the Gentile “dogs”.

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession.”

Jesus answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.”
—Matthew 15:24

According to Paul, Jesus came for all people.

For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
—Romans 10:12-13

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
—Romans 1:16

How are people saved?

Salvation comes by faith alone apart from actions and deeds.

“On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.” –Romans 3:27-28

“know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.” –Galatians 2:16

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” –John 3:16

Salvation comes by following every Old Testament Law and teaching these laws with righteousness surpassing a Pharisee.

“I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” –Matthew 5:17-20

Salvation comes through works, faith alone is not enough. You must prove your faith through action to earn salvation.

“In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” –James 2:17

“You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” –James 2:24

Salvation comes by being baptized, confessing your sins and repeatedly begging God for forgiveness.

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.” –1 John 1:9-10

“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” –Acts 2:38

“Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.” –Acts 3:19-20

Salvation comes by not being financially rich.

“I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” –Matthew 19:23-24

Salvation comes by eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking his blood.

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” –John 6:53-54

Was Jesus good? Was he sinless?

No. Jesus was not good.

The synoptic Gospels all agree:

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good.”
-Matthew 19:16-17

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.”
-Mark 10:17-18

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.”
-Luke 18:18-19

Yes. Jesus was sinless.

Jesus said to them, … “Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?”
-John 8:42-46

But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
-1 John 3:5

Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. “He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”
-1 Peter 2:21-22

We do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.
-Hebrews 4:14-16

How should a faithful Christian interact with non-believers?

Never partner or have fellowship with an unbeliever.

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2 Corinthians 6:14

Never talk to or welcome unbelievers because they are wicked.

Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
2 John 1:9-11

Talk to unbelievers and be prepared to respectfully answer their questions.

Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
Colossians 4:5-6

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.
1 Peter 3:15

Speak gibberish to unbelievers. (speak in tounges)

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.
1 Corinthians 14:22

… or Kill them.

They agreed that anyone who refused to seek the LORD, the God of Israel, would be put to death—whether young or old, man or woman.
2 Chronicles 15:13

Jesus came to save the world, not judge it. Even those who do not follow his teaching.

“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.

John 12:47

Jesus came to judge the earth and condemn all people who do not follow his teaching.

Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

John 9:39

Does God ever feel shame and repent for his mistakes? Or is he a perfect God?

God is perfect. His ways and his word are without flaw.

As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless.
2 Samuel 22:31, Psalm 18:30

He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
Deuteronomy 32:4

God apologizes, feels shame, feels regret, repents for his mistakes and openly admits that sometimes his perfect plan isn’t so perfect.

The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.“
Genesis 6:7

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Exodus 32:14

And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
1 Samuel 15:35

The LORD said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?

Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous.”

Then Abraham said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?” He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

When the LORD had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.
Genesis 18:17, 20, 32-33

God is good to all and has a plan for your life.

Psalm 145:9
The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

God is not good to all, cursing, destroying and deceiving certain people.

Jeremiah 13:14
I will smash them one against the other, fathers and sons alike, declares the LORD. I will allow no pity or mercy or compassion to keep me from destroying them.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

John 12:40
The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts—so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.

Romans 9:18
So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.

According to the Apostle Paul:

If your goal is to please people, you are not a servant of Jesus.

Obviously, I’m not trying to win the approval of people, but of God. If pleasing people were my goal, I would not be Christ’s servant.

Galatians 1:10

Try to please everyone in everything you do.

I, too, try to please everyone in everything I do. I don’t just do what is best for me; I do what is best for others so that many may be saved.

1 Corinthians 10:33

Each person dies for his or her own sin. A parent’s punishment for sin is not handed down to his children.

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

–Deuteronomy 24:16

Children are punished and slaughtered for the sins of their parents. The punishment is inherited and handed down to many generations of the family.

Prepare a place to slaughter his sons for the sins of their forefathers; they are not to rise to inherit the land and cover the earth with their cities.

–Isaiah 14:21

He does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.

–Exodus 34:7

No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation.

–Deuteronomy 23:2

I think you get the idea. Incoming: rationalizations from people who pretend words have no meaning.

What points have you made? You took selected text from the bible. Big woop? There are plenty you left out that could make someone think even harder. The bible is written by man therefore it is imperfect. The lord himself is perfect. Therefore if your stating something in the bible sounds incorrect or can be taken out of context you sir are correct. Does this mean you should not believe in god??? Or even practice his teachings and put them to good use? The fact of the matter is Alawen the bible can be twisted and shaped in so many ways. The truth from it , is what you believe and have thought out for yourself and what god wants you to do. I ask you this Alwaen. If Adam and Eve were the only people on earth. They had two sons Kain and Abel. Kain killed Abel. God banished Kain and told him to seek the others... Who the hell are the others????? Theres plenty of things in the bible that don't make sense, but the moral of the story is though shall not kill.

[Pycoba_rng]

I was raised extremely religiously. Two things caused me to utterly and complete lose faith. The first is that God never answered my prayers. Not once.

The second is that I read the bible. To wit:

What emotion should Christians feel toward God?

Christians are to love God.

Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. –Deuteronomy 6:5

Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” –Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27

Christians are to fear God.

Fear the LORD your God, serve him only –Deuteronomy 6:13

The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread –Isaiah 8:13

But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. –Luke 12:5

And always remember…

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. –1 John 4:18

According to Jesus, he came only for the faithful Jews of Israel. Not the Gentile “dogs”.

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession.”

Jesus answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.”
—Matthew 15:24

According to Paul, Jesus came for all people.

For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
—Romans 10:12-13

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
—Romans 1:16

How are people saved?

Salvation comes by faith alone apart from actions and deeds.

“On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.” –Romans 3:27-28

“know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.” –Galatians 2:16

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” –John 3:16

Salvation comes by following every Old Testament Law and teaching these laws with righteousness surpassing a Pharisee.

“I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” –Matthew 5:17-20

Salvation comes through works, faith alone is not enough. You must prove your faith through action to earn salvation.

“In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” –James 2:17

“You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” –James 2:24

Salvation comes by being baptized, confessing your sins and repeatedly begging God for forgiveness.

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.” –1 John 1:9-10

“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” –Acts 2:38

“Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.” –Acts 3:19-20

Salvation comes by not being financially rich.

“I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” –Matthew 19:23-24

Salvation comes by eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking his blood.

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” –John 6:53-54

Was Jesus good? Was he sinless?

No. Jesus was not good.

The synoptic Gospels all agree:

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good.”
-Matthew 19:16-17

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.”
-Mark 10:17-18

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.”
-Luke 18:18-19

Yes. Jesus was sinless.

Jesus said to them, … “Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?”
-John 8:42-46

But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
-1 John 3:5

Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. “He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”
-1 Peter 2:21-22

We do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.
-Hebrews 4:14-16

How should a faithful Christian interact with non-believers?

Never partner or have fellowship with an unbeliever.

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2 Corinthians 6:14

Never talk to or welcome unbelievers because they are wicked.

Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
2 John 1:9-11

Talk to unbelievers and be prepared to respectfully answer their questions.

Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
Colossians 4:5-6

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.
1 Peter 3:15

Speak gibberish to unbelievers. (speak in tounges)

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.
1 Corinthians 14:22

… or Kill them.

They agreed that anyone who refused to seek the LORD, the God of Israel, would be put to death—whether young or old, man or woman.
2 Chronicles 15:13

Jesus came to save the world, not judge it. Even those who do not follow his teaching.

“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.

John 12:47

Jesus came to judge the earth and condemn all people who do not follow his teaching.

Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

John 9:39

Does God ever feel shame and repent for his mistakes? Or is he a perfect God?

God is perfect. His ways and his word are without flaw.

As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless.
2 Samuel 22:31, Psalm 18:30

He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
Deuteronomy 32:4

God apologizes, feels shame, feels regret, repents for his mistakes and openly admits that sometimes his perfect plan isn’t so perfect.

The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.“
Genesis 6:7

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Exodus 32:14

And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
1 Samuel 15:35

The LORD said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?

Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous.”

Then Abraham said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?” He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

When the LORD had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.
Genesis 18:17, 20, 32-33

God is good to all and has a plan for your life.

Psalm 145:9
The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

God is not good to all, cursing, destroying and deceiving certain people.

Jeremiah 13:14
I will smash them one against the other, fathers and sons alike, declares the LORD. I will allow no pity or mercy or compassion to keep me from destroying them.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

John 12:40
The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts—so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.

Romans 9:18
So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.

According to the Apostle Paul:

If your goal is to please people, you are not a servant of Jesus.

Obviously, I’m not trying to win the approval of people, but of God. If pleasing people were my goal, I would not be Christ’s servant.

Galatians 1:10

Try to please everyone in everything you do.

I, too, try to please everyone in everything I do. I don’t just do what is best for me; I do what is best for others so that many may be saved.

1 Corinthians 10:33

Each person dies for his or her own sin. A parent’s punishment for sin is not handed down to his children.

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

–Deuteronomy 24:16

Children are punished and slaughtered for the sins of their parents. The punishment is inherited and handed down to many generations of the family.

Prepare a place to slaughter his sons for the sins of their forefathers; they are not to rise to inherit the land and cover the earth with their cities.

–Isaiah 14:21

He does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.

–Exodus 34:7

No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation.

–Deuteronomy 23:2

I think you get the idea. Incoming: rationalizations from people who pretend words have no meaning.

I say to you sir. The lord works in mysterious ways. Whether or not you feel your prayors were not answered is your doing. Your relationship with god is entirely dependant on you. If you simply lost faith cause you feel your prayors were not answered in the matter they should've been , " According to you". Then you poor soul are with little faith to begin with. If reading the Bible and some of the versus make you wonder to loose faith. You sir need to attend a Bible study group. We are always with doubt in life. I hope you find your back to the light whether that means with Jesus , Allah , Hassa vuni, or God. Overall I hope you reflect on the good things you learned in the bible and apply them to your daily life. Others like the future kids of tomorrow will appreciate it.

[Pycoba_rng]

Alawen, you should know by now any religious person can refute your points by the process of cherry picking. Just how religious people ask how atheists could have morals without religion. Then they further show their arrogance by saying that the bible lays out all the moral pathway anyone would ever need. The funny thing is that they don't realize that the moral codes from the bible are actually reflected by the changing general consensus of society and culture.

And you sir your knowledge on god is thin. If you believe anyone has to follow the Bible 100% you sir missed the point. Its why we have so many denominations on religions as it is. So many different view points. The bible will forever be translated CTed etc. The point being is developing your own belief system. Worshiping God with others doesn't mean you have to agree with every point they and or the bible says. What it does mean is you both have an understanding on who the lord is. You worship in his name, and give thanks for things as well as forgiveness for doing wrong. The moment you start praying for others , even your enemies. Is the moment you will realize God isn't just about you. Hes about all of us, including the ones who do not believe.

[Ocaevia]

I have only read the last 5 pages so forgive me if any of this is repeated. I have been reading some posts about this thread being about Christians trying to shove their beliefs down each others throats and what not. I am a firm believer that Christianity does not need to be shoved and is a clear disobedience to things of scripture if this mentality is happening.

I grew up as a pastors kid so throughout my life I had some strong issues with the church. I saw the church kick my Father out of his position because my Mother and Him were having issues - little petty things. I grew very distance from the church and religious things. I did a lot of searching and came back to this.

Christianity should never be a forceful action - nothing about the good news of the gospel is forceful. Parts of it are harsh and need to deal with the core of the heart - but never should be attacking and demoralizing. I come into this thread a little blind about what is been happening the last 90 pages or so - but all I can say is Christianity has only benefited my life.

I'm not here to say follow a, b and c and get your reward - in the Bible that is a sin. I still have such strong issues with modern Evangelicalism because of this. I did not come to Christ by my Father forcefully making me submit to Christ - I came to Christ through seeing Christian friends and parents reach out to me in love. They reached out to me as a real person - not just another number in the seat of a pew. This is Christianity. I am a firm believer if anyone is forcing opinions on others about Christianity then there faith is questionable.

I am not here to persuade you to my views - though that would be lovely if that arises. I felt the need to chime in my 2 cents. Just came to say what has helped me.

[chtulu]

And you sir your knowledge on god is thin. If you believe anyone has to follow the Bible 100% you sir missed the point. Its why we have so many denominations on religions as it is. So many different view points. The bible will forever be translated CTed etc. The point being is developing your own belief system. Worshiping God with others doesn't mean you have to agree with every point they and or the bible says. What it does mean is you both have an understanding on who the lord is. You worship in his name, and give thanks for things as well as forgiveness for doing wrong. The moment you start praying for others , even your enemies. Is the moment you will realize God isn't just about you. Hes about all of us, including the ones who do not believe.


A simple statement I have left for you.

A perfect being would not require worship.

[JayDee]

I was raised extremely religiously. Two things caused me to utterly and complete lose faith. The first is that God never answered my prayers. Not once.

The second is that I read the bible. To wit:

What emotion should Christians feel toward God?

Christians are to love God.

Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. –Deuteronomy 6:5

Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” –Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27

Christians are to fear God.

Fear the LORD your God, serve him only –Deuteronomy 6:13

The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread –Isaiah 8:13

But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. –Luke 12:5

And always remember…

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. –1 John 4:18

According to Jesus, he came only for the faithful Jews of Israel. Not the Gentile “dogs”.

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession.”

Jesus answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.”
—Matthew 15:24

According to Paul, Jesus came for all people.

For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
—Romans 10:12-13

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
—Romans 1:16

How are people saved?

Salvation comes by faith alone apart from actions and deeds.

“On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.” –Romans 3:27-28

“know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.” –Galatians 2:16

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” –John 3:16

Salvation comes by following every Old Testament Law and teaching these laws with righteousness surpassing a Pharisee.

“I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” –Matthew 5:17-20

Salvation comes through works, faith alone is not enough. You must prove your faith through action to earn salvation.

“In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” –James 2:17

“You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” –James 2:24

Salvation comes by being baptized, confessing your sins and repeatedly begging God for forgiveness.

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.” –1 John 1:9-10

“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” –Acts 2:38

“Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.” –Acts 3:19-20

Salvation comes by not being financially rich.

“I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” –Matthew 19:23-24

Salvation comes by eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking his blood.

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” –John 6:53-54

Was Jesus good? Was he sinless?

No. Jesus was not good.

The synoptic Gospels all agree:

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good.”
-Matthew 19:16-17

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.”
-Mark 10:17-18

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.”
-Luke 18:18-19

Yes. Jesus was sinless.

Jesus said to them, … “Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?”
-John 8:42-46

But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
-1 John 3:5

Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. “He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”
-1 Peter 2:21-22

We do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.
-Hebrews 4:14-16

How should a faithful Christian interact with non-believers?

Never partner or have fellowship with an unbeliever.

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2 Corinthians 6:14

Never talk to or welcome unbelievers because they are wicked.

Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
2 John 1:9-11

Talk to unbelievers and be prepared to respectfully answer their questions.

Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
Colossians 4:5-6

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.
1 Peter 3:15

Speak gibberish to unbelievers. (speak in tounges)

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.
1 Corinthians 14:22

… or Kill them.

They agreed that anyone who refused to seek the LORD, the God of Israel, would be put to death—whether young or old, man or woman.
2 Chronicles 15:13

Jesus came to save the world, not judge it. Even those who do not follow his teaching.

“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.

John 12:47

Jesus came to judge the earth and condemn all people who do not follow his teaching.

Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

John 9:39

Does God ever feel shame and repent for his mistakes? Or is he a perfect God?

God is perfect. His ways and his word are without flaw.

As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless.
2 Samuel 22:31, Psalm 18:30

He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
Deuteronomy 32:4

God apologizes, feels shame, feels regret, repents for his mistakes and openly admits that sometimes his perfect plan isn’t so perfect.

The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.“
Genesis 6:7

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Exodus 32:14

And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
1 Samuel 15:35

The LORD said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?

Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous.”

Then Abraham said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?” He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

When the LORD had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.
Genesis 18:17, 20, 32-33

God is good to all and has a plan for your life.

Psalm 145:9
The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

God is not good to all, cursing, destroying and deceiving certain people.

Jeremiah 13:14
I will smash them one against the other, fathers and sons alike, declares the LORD. I will allow no pity or mercy or compassion to keep me from destroying them.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

John 12:40
The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts—so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.

Romans 9:18
So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.

According to the Apostle Paul:

If your goal is to please people, you are not a servant of Jesus.

Obviously, I’m not trying to win the approval of people, but of God. If pleasing people were my goal, I would not be Christ’s servant.

Galatians 1:10

Try to please everyone in everything you do.

I, too, try to please everyone in everything I do. I don’t just do what is best for me; I do what is best for others so that many may be saved.

1 Corinthians 10:33

Each person dies for his or her own sin. A parent’s punishment for sin is not handed down to his children.

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

–Deuteronomy 24:16

Children are punished and slaughtered for the sins of their parents. The punishment is inherited and handed down to many generations of the family.

Prepare a place to slaughter his sons for the sins of their forefathers; they are not to rise to inherit the land and cover the earth with their cities.

–Isaiah 14:21

He does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.

–Exodus 34:7

No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation.

–Deuteronomy 23:2

I think you get the idea. Incoming: rationalizations from people who pretend words have no meaning.

You have received a warning from JayDee for the following offense : Caring

[Massive Marc]

Religous nut? Who the hell said i was a nut about my religion? Your mad because your pointless views have no meaning in your life. You had to take the time to come up with your own belief system just to tell people why you don't believe in god. People like you are more ought to be assholes then others. If you can't clearly see the bible for what it teaches your ignorant. Do good onto others as you would yourself? Is that a hard concept? Forgiveness? Being kind? You moch the bible and take things to literal. The bible is far from perfect it was written by man. The thing about the bible is your suppose to study it. Develope your own belief system. Its a guide to how to live your life. Twisted and hypocritical? Can you name a better book on how to live your life? Who has written a better book? I can point many things out in the bible that are laughable and a joke. A man living for 900 years??? Your arguments are so ridiculous. You confine god and religion to a simple ruleset. You call people for being hypocritcal for having their own fine tuned belief system. Everyone believes in god differently. No two people are alike. Everyones relationship with god is different. Is this a hard concept for you?

Thanks for proving your seriously out of your bonker. Please re-read what I posted. Then read what you posted. Then. Smack your self.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

So wasn't this thread about being an idiot if you believe in God? Why are you Atheist only dwelling on Christians and the Christian faith? How many other religions celebrate God? I have never been to a posting where Atheists bash any other religion than Christianity. Odd huh? Please tell me Marc and others what parts of the Torah you don't like...or the Koran. What part in the Avesta do you have an issue with? Do you agree with any part of Jainism ? Do think think the Native Americans are stupid for having faith in K'che Manitou? I can guarantee that you are not familiar with many if not all other of the other religions in this world. I can guarantee that you cannot offer up many quotes from their religious texts (on the fly w/o having to go to Wiki...lol) I have a feeling that you only hate Christians because they are mainly conservative in their political ideology. It has been indicated so many times in this thread. So what you guys are really trying to say is that you hate Republicans because they do not agree with your liberal Bullshit views. Just admit that and move on. You guys are so pathetic and empty. ;)

[Massive Marc]

So wasn't this thread about being an idiot if you believe in God? Why are you Atheist only dwelling on Christians and the Christian faith? How many other religions celebrate God? I have never been to a posting where Atheists bash any other religion than Christianity. Odd huh? Please tell me Marc and others what parts of the Torah you don't like...or the Koran. What part in the Avesta do you have an issue with? Do you agree with any part of Jainism ? Do think think the Native Americans are stupid for having faith in K'che Manitou? I can guarantee that you are not familiar with many if not all other of the other religions in this world. I can guarantee that you cannot offer up many quotes from their religious texts (on the fly w/o having to go to Wiki...lol) I have a feeling that you only hate Christians because they are mainly conservative in their political ideology. It has been indicated so many times in this thread. So what you guys are really trying to say is that you hate Republicans because they do not agree with your liberal Bullshit views. Just admit that and move on. You guys are so pathetic and empty. ;)

I disagree with all religions.

[Gukag]

Boggwin, your posts reek of irony. You're basically acting exactly like the moronic militant atheists in reverse. "lolol I'm so much better than you guys because of X, and you're all worthless". I see none of the good parts of religion in your posts, and all the bad. Just because some retards are incredibly intolerant of beliefs other than their own doesn't justify...being incredibly intolerant of their beliefs.
In any case you have a point that Christianity is practically impossible to dissasociate from politics in the US. Which is why discussion of it in that context is worthless. Conservatives aren't always religious, liberals aren't always atheists. You're just the other side of the bitterly angry coin. You may say you got trolled into it, but that's basically "They did it first!!". Are you some kind of child? You're doing a disservice to your own beliefs by lowering the standard to theirs.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

I disagree with all religions.

You do? Then post a reply to the ones I mentioned earlier. Can't? Didn't think so. Ill even give you time to Wiki them so you can act like you do. Just admit that you are a flaming liberal that hates conservatives and Christians. Oh, and a troll.

[Gukag]

And vice versa of course, for moronic militant atheists whining about religion being the source of all evil and intolerance, then demonstrating insane degrees of intolerance. In short, anyone who gets mad at someone's religion or lack thereof is a retard. That is all. You may now go back to your regularly scheduled tit for tat bullshit.

[Massive Marc]

You do? Then post a reply to the ones I mentioned earlier. Can't? Didn't think so. Ill even give you time to Wiki them so you can act like you do. Just admit that you are a flaming liberal that hates conservatives and Christians. Oh, and a troll.

I don't get involved in politics and don't have a stance on either faction. Nothing I have posted would suggest that my feelings toward religion have anything to do with politics.

Keep trying.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Boggwin, your posts reek of irony. You're basically acting exactly like the moronic militant atheists in reverse. "lolol I'm so much better than you guys because of X, and you're all worthless". I see none of the good parts of religion in your posts, and all the bad. Just because some retards are incredibly intolerant of beliefs other than their own doesn't justify...being incredibly intolerant of their beliefs.
In any case you have a point that Christianity is practically impossible to dissasociate from politics in the US. Which is why discussion of it in that context is worthless. Conservatives aren't always religious, liberals aren't always atheists. You're just the other side of the bitterly angry coin. You may say you got trolled into it, but that's basically "They did it first!!". Are you some kind of child? You're doing a disservice to your own beliefs by lowering the standard to theirs.

I know that many Christians are democrats. But if you read the past post you will see that THEY are the ones associating Christians with Conservatives. It kind of comes across that THEY believe that they are one in the same. And no I am not some kind of a child. Does it make you feel better to write that?

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

I don't get involved in politics and don't have a stance on either faction. Nothing I have posted would suggest that my feelings toward religion have anything to do with politics.

Keep trying.

Fine, then please, please post why you hate the other religions as well....I am waiting. Not in your atheist talking points book huh? Pathetic.

[Gukag]

And to answer part of your previous post, I don't dislike religion in itself, but as soon as a religion become a State matter it becomes perverted beyond it's original purpose. This is true whether you're talking about christianity under the Roman empire, Budhism in China, Shintoism in Japan, etc..This is more a matter of power and wealth than religion itself, but for hundreds of years one could not be dissasociated from the other.

[Massive Marc]

Fine, then please, please post why you hate the other religions as well....I am waiting. Not in your atheist talking points book huh? Pathetic.

I didn't say I hate any other religions.

Again. Keep trying.

[Gukag]

I know that many Christians are democrats. But if you read the past post you will see that THEY are the ones associating Christians with Conservatives. It kind of comes across that THEY believe that they are one in the same. And no I am not some kind of a child. Does it make you feel better to write that?

You just said in your previous post that all atheists are bitter liberals who dislike religion simply because of it's association with a political party. And you make this ridiculous generalization in response to their ridiculous generalization. So yeh, kind of childish.

[Gukag]

Incidentally, some of the more acidic atheists I have ever met in a political context were Ann Raynd "worshipping" libertarians. The tenets of their philosophy are almost diametrically opposed to what I consider the valuable lessons of Christianity.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

You just said in your previous post that all atheists are bitter liberals who dislike religion simply because of it's association with a political party. And you make this ridiculous generalization in response to their ridiculous generalization. So yeh, kind of childish.

Maybe you should actually read the post Gukag:

"So wasn't this thread about being an idiot if you believe in God? Why are you Atheist only dwelling on Christians and the Christian faith? How many other religions celebrate God? I have never been to a posting where Atheists bash any other religion than Christianity. Odd huh? Please tell me Marc and others what parts of the Torah you don't like...or the Koran. What part in the Avesta do you have an issue with? Do you agree with any part of Jainism ? Do think think the Native Americans are stupid for having faith in K'che Manitou? I can guarantee that you are not familiar with many if not all other of the other religions in this world. I can guarantee that you cannot offer up many quotes from their religious texts (on the fly w/o having to go to Wiki...lol) I have a feeling that you only hate Christians because they are mainly conservative in their political ideology. It has been indicated so many times in this thread. So what you guys are really trying to say is that you hate Republicans because they do not agree with your liberal Bullshit views. Just admit that and move on. You guys are so pathetic and empty."

I did not say that all Atheist are bitter liberals anywhere in there did I? I was referring to many in this thread who had made statements linking conservative thinking to Christianity. Please read a little more before you make false statements regarding my post.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

I didn't say I hate any other religions.

Again. Keep trying.

Ok...disagree with...my apologies, i misrepresented you. So then please, please, please tell me what parts of those religions do you disagree with? Your stalling has given you ample time to consult Wiki on this point...lol. And I a sure you Atheist debunking God websites will be of little use since they tend to only address...drum roll please...Christianity.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

I didn't say I hate any other religions.

Again. Keep trying.

Any other huh? So you admit you hate Christianity? HMMMMM.

[Gukag]

Granted, perhaps your insults were more targetted than I first gave them credit for. There's atheists I have a lot of respect for because they have actual reasoning and knowledge behind their decisions, but that's rare regardless of beliefs frankly. Most people have zero critical thinking skills and blindly accept whatever is popular or common in their area of the world, whether it's atheism or any religion. Basically, you have to go more than skin deep with people's beliefs, and I'd just hope your rage towards atheists is restricted towards the extremely ignorant ones.

[Pycoba_rng]

My last say on this thread will be a positive one. For those of you that question god and don't believe in him. I encourage you at one point in your life. Whether it be a crysis or a desperate need for help. To try prayor. You make moch the idea or flame it. The thing is , when no one can help you with your situation. IE: Someone dying in the family , your struggling in life , you need help guidance etc. Say a prayor. God is always listening and regardless on what you believe its nice to have someone to talk to. I for one had many crysis in my life that mended. Was it the power of god? I think so... Some might say it wasn't. Just be careful what you pray for. Sometimes we pay for things thinking it will go the way we want. Othertimes Gods answer to things could be harsh , but ultimately lead to a better life or understanding. It can take days to years for a prayor to be answered. Life has a way of spinning things to ultimately lead to our destination , whether it be good or bad in the long run. Those that are unemployed seeking jobs or a better relationship with their wife or kids. Be careful if you pray , God might see too it your Everquest goes down. Maybe your computer will break , you will get fired not afford the internet. I know these ideas might sound raidcal and irrational, but with god everything is radical , in a good way and bad. I hope you think about what i'm saying during that time in your life. I know some of you already have tried, maybe failed in your beliefs. All I can say is be good onto others and in return good will come to you.

[Humerox]

If you are truly wondering, why not read the bible? I think the answers you are looking for are in there.

So people find interesting stuffz in the Old Testament.

This is an old testament rule. At the time of the old testament, the only people following God were the Jews pretty much.

Oh ya...the Old Testament doesn't count.

I never said it's not okay for Christians to pick and choose what they believe in the bible.

In other words...it is.

Why are you atheists only dwelling on Christians and the Christian faith?

wut?

you Atheist debunking God websites will be of little use since they tend to only address...drum roll please...Christianity.

Flip much, Bog?

[Massive Marc]

Ok...disagree with...my apologies, i misrepresented you. So then please, please, please tell me what parts of those religions do you disagree with? Your stalling has given you ample time to consult Wiki on this point...lol. And I a sure you Atheist debunking God websites will be of little use since they tend to only address...drum roll please...Christianity.


I have a better question. Why are interested in why I disagree with religion ? So you can argue over all my points ? Cherry pick lines that I wrote, so you can refute with your own cherry picking ? I could write you a script on how that argument would go, as it has played out over and over on the internet. As entertaining as you are, I just wont put that much effort into someone that is ... well ... a nutball. If you read my post's you would clearly see why I disagree with religion. There is no intolerance, there is no hatred, no political affiliation, not one anything you have claimed, is why I disagree with religion.

Keep up the Strawmanning.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

So people find interesting stuffz in the Old Testament.



Oh ya...the Old Testament doesn't count.



In other words...it is.



wut?



Flip much, Bog?

Did I say that? You are doing what the other have been doing...taking only parts of quotes and acting like that can explain intent. Nice try. Try using better logic next time.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

I have a better question. Why are interested in why I disagree with religion ? So you can argue over all my points ? Cherry pick lines that I wrote, so you can refute with your own cherry picking ? I could write you a script on how that argument would go, as it has played out over and over on the internet. As entertaining as you are, I just wont put that much effort into someone that is ... well ... a nutball. If you read my post's you would clearly see why I disagree with religion. There is no intolerance, there is no hatred, no political affiliation, not one anything you have claimed, is why I disagree with religion.

Keep up the Strawmanning.

I am waiting...STILL. Why do you keep stalling...lol.

[Humerox]

Did I say that? You are doing what the other have been doing...taking only parts of quotes and acting like that can explain intent. Nice try. Try using better logic next time.

None of the quotes were taken out of context, and have an explicit and direct meaning that is not dependent upon the rest of what you said.

Nice try, though.

[Kassel]

The old Testament doesn't count.
The new Testament doesn't count.

Both written by men for power well after the supposed events had passed.

Why are you atheists only dwelling on Christians and the Christian faith?

Becouse they are the only people currently engaged in on the pro religion side of the debate.

[Krimsin]

The funny thing is. You don't believe in god... Thefore anything you say about him and the bible means jack shit. Usually before you argue on a subject matter , you should probably have a background in it. How long have you studied the bible or religon for that matter? What books have you read?

I do believe in god, just not the one in anyone's silly book.

I was very religious when I was younger. But once you realize that the bible decouples from reality in so many ways you'll quickly find that study of it is useless if you seek to find the true nature of god. The bible, clearly written by man, exposes god as carrying the same backward mindedness of man. Where a study of nature will clearly show that the construction of the universe is one of precise functions. Starting off with seeming nothingness and building to massive expanses.

Your telling me you base your entire belief system on science or modern logic? Don't argue with those that know god or the bible. When you know nuthing about it. You don't even have a relationship with god. Your arguments and words are meaningless. Clearly you thought this through and questioned god way to many times. You should find the courage to put your money where you mouth is. Attend a church study the bible for a couple years. Maybe then you could have a say in a argument. For now your talk is cheap and meaningless to anyone who disagrees with you. The only people you will find that agree are ignorant people who have yet to discover any good that comes from bibles and religon.

Can you be all over the place more often? First off you claim my mindset is meaningless and proclaim I don't have a relationship with god because I've never attended church (which I have numerous times, of numerous denominations and faiths). Then you go on to say I've thought this through and questioned the nature of god, which I obviously have. But wouldn't that lend some semblance of meaning and credence to my views?

Regardless. I hope you are able to lose the rigidity of your belief structure and can come to fully understand the brilliant expanse that is the world around you.

[mitic]

http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/img/2008/no-santa-no-god2.gif

[Gukag]

Becouse they are the only people currently engaged in on the pro religion side of the debate.

Completely false. You're all limited by your perspectives. Obviously someone living in the US or Western Europe will be way more familiar with christianity than any other religion. If you look at atheists from, say, Turkey, they overwhelmingly bash the crap out of Islam. Atheism in China as spread out in the cultural revolution had almost nothing to do with christianity and focused almost exclusively on buddhism and confucianism. It's not exactly rocket science to figure out why.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

The old Testament doesn't count.
The new Testament doesn't count.

Both written by men for power well after the supposed events had passed.

So we should ignore most every history book or book written about past events unless they are written by someone who was actually there huh? Makes sense to me...NOT!

(You do realize that thousands of History scholars even agree that many of the events in the bible are historically accurate and coincide with accepted historical teachings.)

[soup]

Completely false. You're all limited by your perspectives. Obviously someone living in the US or Western Europe will be way more familiar with christianity than any other religion. If you look at atheists from, say, Turkey, they overwhelmingly bash the crap out of Islam. Atheism in China as spread out in the cultural revolution had almost nothing to do with christianity and focused almost exclusively on buddhism and confucianism. It's not exactly rocket science to figure out why.

Uhh, I think you're confused.

He's saying Christianity is the only one represented on the pro-religion side in this thread.

[soup]

(You do realize that thousands of History scholars even agree that many of the events in the bible are historically accurate and coincide with accepted historical teachings.)

Care to backup this horribly inaccurate and misleading claim?

[Humerox]

(You do realize that thousands of History scholars even agree that many of the events in the bible are historically accurate and coincide with accepted historical teachings.)

Please enlighten us.

[Kassel]

So we should ignore most every history book or book written about past events unless they are written by someone who was actually there huh? Makes sense to me...NOT!

Would you try to navigate the world with a map of a flat earth? How about a 2000 year old medical journal to save your young childs life?

Completely false. You're all limited by your perspectives

There is no prespectives here ...read the fucking thread and please pass what you are smoking

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Care to backup this horribly inaccurate and misleading claim?

Here are some examples:

* Clay Tablet, Ebla. Photo copyrighted.The discovery of the Ebla archive in northern Syria in the 1970s has shown the Biblical writings concerning the Patriarchs to be viable. Documents written on clay tablets from around 2300 B.C. demonstrate that personal and place names in the Patriarchal accounts are genuine. The name “Canaan” was in use in Ebla, a name critics once said was not used at that time and was used incorrectly in the early chapters of the Bible. The word tehom (“the deep”) in Genesis 1:2 was said to be a late word demonstrating the late writing of the creation story. “Tehom” was part of the vocabulary at Ebla, in use some 800 years before Moses. Ancient customs reflected in the stories of the Patriarchs have also been found in clay tablets from Nuzi and Mari.

* The Hittites were once thought to be a Biblical legend, until their capital and records were discovered at Bogazkoy, Turkey.

* Many thought the Biblical references to Solomon's wealth were greatly exaggerated. Recovered records from the past show that wealth in antiquity was concentrated with the king and Solomon's prosperity was entirely feasible.

* It was once claimed there was no Assyrian king named Sargon as recorded in Isaiah 20:1, because this name was not known in any other record. Then, Sargon's palace was discovered in Khorsabad, Iraq. The very event mentioned in Isaiah 20, his capture of Ashdod, was recorded on the palace walls. What is more, fragments of a stela memorializing the victory were found at Ashdod itself.

* Another king who was in doubt was Belshazzar, king of Babylon, named in Daniel 5. The last king of Babylon was Nabonidus according to recorded history. Tablets were found showing that Belshazzar was Nabonidus' son who served as coregent in Babylon. Thus, Belshazzar could offer to make Daniel “third highest ruler in the kingdom” (Dan. 5:16) for reading the handwriting on the wall, the highest available position. Here we see the “eye-witness” nature of the Biblical record, as is so often brought out by the discoveries of archaeology.

[Massive Marc]

Here are some examples:

* Clay Tablet, Ebla. Photo copyrighted.The discovery of the Ebla archive in northern Syria in the 1970s has shown the Biblical writings concerning the Patriarchs to be viable. Documents written on clay tablets from around 2300 B.C. demonstrate that personal and place names in the Patriarchal accounts are genuine. The name “Canaan” was in use in Ebla, a name critics once said was not used at that time and was used incorrectly in the early chapters of the Bible. The word tehom (“the deep”) in Genesis 1:2 was said to be a late word demonstrating the late writing of the creation story. “Tehom” was part of the vocabulary at Ebla, in use some 800 years before Moses. Ancient customs reflected in the stories of the Patriarchs have also been found in clay tablets from Nuzi and Mari.

* The Hittites were once thought to be a Biblical legend, until their capital and records were discovered at Bogazkoy, Turkey.

* Many thought the Biblical references to Solomon's wealth were greatly exaggerated. Recovered records from the past show that wealth in antiquity was concentrated with the king and Solomon's prosperity was entirely feasible.

* It was once claimed there was no Assyrian king named Sargon as recorded in Isaiah 20:1, because this name was not known in any other record. Then, Sargon's palace was discovered in Khorsabad, Iraq. The very event mentioned in Isaiah 20, his capture of Ashdod, was recorded on the palace walls. What is more, fragments of a stela memorializing the victory were found at Ashdod itself.

* Another king who was in doubt was Belshazzar, king of Babylon, named in Daniel 5. The last king of Babylon was Nabonidus according to recorded history. Tablets were found showing that Belshazzar was Nabonidus' son who served as coregent in Babylon. Thus, Belshazzar could offer to make Daniel “third highest ruler in the kingdom” (Dan. 5:16) for reading the handwriting on the wall, the highest available position. Here we see the “eye-witness” nature of the Biblical record, as is so often brought out by the discoveries of archaeology.

Lol@christananswers.com

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

I'm just gonna say this again - Since there is no concrete evidence that god exists or does not exist, any beliefs we can have concerning the topic are speculative. We all hope very much that we possess an eternal soul that will continue on in some way after death. It is this hope that drives and has driven humanity to construct mythologies that help transform hope into belief. While religion has had enormous sociocultural impact historically and obviously continues to do so, the fact is that it remains a constructed mythology. You all can continue to talk past each other, beating the dead horses you rode in on, but that's the way it is folks. When you say you believe in God, do you really believe in it the way you believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, or that if you jump off a cliff you will be injured? I submit that what you call belief, is in fact hope so strong that it has been transformed into a type of belief for you. This is only natural; death is the greatest fear in the heart of every man. But the rational man must face this fear without resorting to the crutch of mythology, because we have a threshold for belief rooted in the observable, the provable. All else is ghosts and wind.

[Massive Marc]

Lol@christananswers.com

Sorry, http://www.christiananswers.net.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Lol@christananswers.com

http://history-world.org/sargon_the_great.htm

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/HITTITES.HTM

And the last from your favorite site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belshazzar

lol. Sorry I linked you from a site dealing with religion...my bad.

[Krimsin]

I'm just gonna say this again - Since there is no concrete evidence that god exists or does not exist, any beliefs we can have concerning the topic are speculative. We all hope very much that we possess an eternal soul that will continue on in some way after death. It is this hope that drives and has driven humanity to construct mythologies that help transform hope into belief. While religion has had enormous sociocultural impact historically and obviously continues to do so, the fact is that it remains a constructed mythology. You all can continue to talk past each other, beating the dead horses you rode in on, but that's the way it is folks. When you say you believe in God, do you really believe in it the way you believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, or that if you jump off a cliff you will be injured? I submit that what you call belief, is in fact hope so strong that it has been transformed into a type of belief for you. This is only natural; death is the greatest fear in the heart of every man. But the rational man must face this fear without resorting to the crutch of mythology, because we have a threshold for belief rooted in the observable, the provable. All else is ghosts and wind.

+++ brilliant.

Pant wearing monkeys trying to rationalize their mortality.

Get back to me when you trump Pascal's Wager! :p

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

A fellow philosophy degree holder, nice.

[Humerox]

Here are some examples


None of these point to biblical historical accuracy. They point to a few specific instances where there may have been some questions that were resolved, but as far as viewing the Christian Bible as an accurate historical document...they do not.

Archaeology offers both confirmation of parts of the biblical record and also poses challenges to the naive interpretations made by some. The careful examination of the evidence demonstrates that the historical accuracy of the first part of the Old Testament is greatest during the reign of Josiah. Some feel that the accuracy diminishes, the further backwards one proceeds from this date. This they claim would confirm that a major redaction of the texts seems to have occurred at about that date.


My issue was more with the fact that you made an implication that "thousands of historians" validated the acceptance of the Christian Bible as a historical document (granted you qualified that statement with "many instances", but the implication is - nevertheless - there). More accurate historical data could probably be found in the manuscripts that comprise the Kolbrin Bible than can be found in the Christian Bible.

[Humerox]

To clarify further:

What biblicists who get so excited over archaeological discoveries like these apparently can't understand is that extrabiblical confirmation of some of the Bible does not constitute confirmation of all if the Bible. For example, the fact that archaeological evidence confirms that Jehu was an actual historical character confirms only that he was an actual historical character. It does not confirm the historical accuracy of everything that the Bible attributed to him. Did a "son of the prophets" go to Ramoth-gilead and anoint Jehu king of Israel while the reigning king was home in Jezreel recovering from battle wounds (2 Kings 9:1-10)? Did Jehu then ride to Jezreel in a chariot and massacre the Israelite royal family and usurp the throne (2 Kings 9:16 ff)? We simply cannot determine this from an Assyrian inscription that claimed Jehu paid tribute to Shalmaneser, so in the absence of disinterested, nonbiblical records that attest to these events, it is hardly accurate to say that archaeology has proven the historicity of what the Bible recorded about Jehu.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

None of these point to biblical historical accuracy. They point to a few specific instances where there may have been some questions that were resolved, but as far as viewing the Christian Bible as an accurate historical document...they do not.

Archaeology offers both confirmation of parts of the biblical record and also poses challenges to the naive interpretations made by some. The careful examination of the evidence demonstrates that the historical accuracy of the first part of the Old Testament is greatest during the reign of Josiah. Some feel that the accuracy diminishes, the further backwards one proceeds from this date. This they claim would confirm that a major redaction of the texts seems to have occurred at about that date.


My issue was more with the fact that you made an implication that "thousands of historians" validated the acceptance of the Christian Bible as a historical document (granted you qualified that statement with "many instances", but the implication is - nevertheless - there). More accurate historical data could probably be found in the manuscripts that comprise the Kolbrin Bible than can be found in the Christian Bible.

First off...nice quote off of Wiki. You guys and you open source Wiki knowledge...lol. Secondly I am not sure how I can get you guys to grasp the basics of the English language. I said and I quote, "(You do realize that thousands of History scholars even agree that many of the events in the bible are historically accurate and coincide with accepted historical teachings.)" I did not allude to events that you guys find questionable, but rather events in general like the ones I listed earlier.

[soup]

+++ brilliant.

Pant wearing monkeys trying to rationalize their mortality.

Get back to me when you trump Pascal's Wager! :p

Pascal's Wager? Wait, are you trying to use Pascal's Wager as a reason to believe?

roflroflrofl

I wager that by believing in a specific religion, you will anger the one true and yet undefined God who will then banish you to to not hell, but an equally miserable place, for believing in such heresy. Since there are infinite possible hypothetical true Gods who could be angered by such a thing, I feel the only prudent course of action is to believe in nothing in hopes of appeasing any of the possible infinite yet undescribed gods.

Pascal's Wager, what a joke.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

I did not allude to events that you guys find questionable, but rather events in general like the ones I listed earlier.

Then who fucking cares? Congratulations, you have shown the Bible is loosely based on reality. Except for the magic part.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

To clarify further:

What biblicists who get so excited over archaeological discoveries like these apparently can't understand is that extrabiblical confirmation of some of the Bible does not constitute confirmation of all if the Bible. For example, the fact that archaeological evidence confirms that Jehu was an actual historical character confirms only that he was an actual historical character. It does not confirm the historical accuracy of everything that the Bible attributed to him. Did a "son of the prophets" go to Ramoth-gilead and anoint Jehu king of Israel while the reigning king was home in Jezreel recovering from battle wounds (2 Kings 9:1-10)? Did Jehu then ride to Jezreel in a chariot and massacre the Israelite royal family and usurp the throne (2 Kings 9:16 ff)? We simply cannot determine this from an Assyrian inscription that claimed Jehu paid tribute to Shalmaneser, so in the absence of disinterested, nonbiblical records that attest to these events, it is hardly accurate to say that archaeology has proven the historicity of what the Bible recorded about Jehu.

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/982front.html

At least give the guy credit for HIS argument, I am glad you didn't use Wiki this time...lol.

[soup]

First off...nice quote off of Wiki. You guys and you open source Wiki knowledge...lol. Secondly I am not sure how I can get you guys to grasp the basics of the English language. I said and I quote, "(You do realize that thousands of History scholars even agree that many of the events in the bible are historically accurate and coincide with accepted historical teachings.)" I did not allude to events that you guys find questionable, but rather events in general like the ones I listed earlier.

You said many, then listed 5, all of them with questionable relevance.

[Kassel]

Hitler existed thus all stories regarding SPACE HITLER must be true !!

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/space_hitler.jpg

[Krimsin]

Then who fucking cares? Congratulations, you have shown the Bible is loosely based on reality. Except for the magic part.

Its like that "Million tiny pieces" guy...except the Roman's didn't have Oprah's fact checker so they just decided to nail the guy to a board to be certain!:D

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Kassel I am interested in this Space Hitler and what he can do to improve my daily life. I would very much like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Kassel]

boo my funny picture of hitler fighting aliens =(

[Kassel]

http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/space-hitler.jpg

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Ok. I am done with this thread. I have spent far too much time trying to enlighten you lost souls, to no avail. I am sure you feel the same way in trying to get me to renounce my beliefs so that I can be more like you. In the end, I will keep up my faith and pray that one day you too will come to the one true conclusion in all of this. Unfortunately for you guys, it will probably happen after it is too late to make a difference. Good luck with your whole empty life thing. I hope it works out for you…haha.

And to those who actually participated in this thread with some sort of debate and rationalization...thank you. To those who did not, and could only come up with insults I will pray for you most of all; since you are not even smart enough to know why you don't believe...haha. Peace.

[Kassel]

If you dont pray to space hilter you will go to space hell for sure.

Does the sun rise? does the sun set? does the tide go in ? does the tide go out?

This is my PROOF that space hitler is the one true GOD

[Krimsin]

Space Hitler is really sexy.

[Beauregard]

Surely the god of our species is a sex-crazed maniac.

[Massive Marc]

http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/space-hitler.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Kassel, Space Hitler made my day. Thank you.

[Krimsin]

I thought Godwin's law applied only to politics?

[Massive Marc]

I thought Godwin's law applied only to politics?

Any online discussion.
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

[Kassel]

I am going to end this thread via Godwins law. (lol?)

- God created man in his image, (physicaly, intelligently, spiritually)
- God created Hitler in his own image.
- If Gods' image is Hitler, God is a Nazi

If i claim God is a Nazi this never ending argument has come to completion as per Internet rules of engagment.

You may now resume your regular activities.


POST 460 on this very thread.

I would also like to now point out that GOD-WIN is LOL

[Massive Marc]

POST 460 on this very thread.

I would also like to now point out that GOD-WIN is LOL

My apologies. Your correct.

[Massive Marc]

My apologies. Your correct.

"You're" for you grammar Nazis.

[Slathar]

Ok. I am done with this thread. I have spent far too much time trying to enlighten you lost souls, to no avail. I am sure you feel the same way in trying to get me to renounce my beliefs so that I can be more like you. In the end, I will keep up my faith and pray that one day you too will come to the one true conclusion in all of this. Unfortunately for you guys, it will probably happen after it is too late to make a difference. Good luck with your whole empty life thing. I hope it works out for you…haha.

And to those who actually participated in this thread with some sort of debate and rationalization...thank you. To those who did not, and could only come up with insults I will pray for you most of all; since you are not even smart enough to know why you don't believe...haha. Peace.

you're a failure at life, your religion isn't real and you're a joke. congrats on losing an internet argument and looking like the burger-flipping moron you are

bye!

[Knuckle]

You also believe the world is only 6,000 years old and think evolution is a conspiracy theory against Jesus.

well done sir, almost 100 pages.

[Knuckle]

in less than a month 100 page thread. pure trolling madness

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Its dying though, and i will be here to feel its last breath crushed out of its twisted incoherent frame. Die you idiotic thread... die....

[chtulu]

Its dying though, and i will be here to feel its last breath crushed out of its twisted incoherent frame. Die you idiotic thread... die....


Speaking of death, let's show a few examples of why the bible is insulting and violent. Anyone who believes that God word = perfect and true then the bible = perfect and true because God made the bible.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vkXOwBIRX7Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


And so with that in mind, 90% of the population should be killed.

[chtulu]

But, I do agree with this part of the bible; does this make me a christian?


Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. - 1 Corinthians 14

And:

Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. - 1 Tim 2

We can find dozens of verses that are just as sexist. The Bible’s sexism is both ridiculous and repulsive.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Here are some examples:

* Clay Tablet, Ebla. Photo copyrighted.The discovery of the Ebla archive in northern Syria in the 1970s has shown the Biblical writings concerning the Patriarchs to be viable. Documents written on clay tablets from around 2300 B.C. demonstrate that personal and place names in the Patriarchal accounts are genuine. The name “Canaan” was in use in Ebla, a name critics once said was not used at that time and was used incorrectly in the early chapters of the Bible. The word tehom (“the deep”) in Genesis 1:2 was said to be a late word demonstrating the late writing of the creation story. “Tehom” was part of the vocabulary at Ebla, in use some 800 years before Moses. Ancient customs reflected in the stories of the Patriarchs have also been found in clay tablets from Nuzi and Mari.

Clay tablets written in Sumerian and the local Ebla dialect, with no connection whatsoever to Hebrew or Israelites do not prove the truth of the Bible, despite the unfounded religious fervor drummed up before they were translated. No evidence here.

* The Hittites were once thought to be a Biblical legend, until their capital and records were discovered at Bogazkoy, Turkey.

References to Kheta/Khatti/Hatti were discovered almost 150 years ago. You make absolutely no sense whatsoever here. Even if you did, the existence of a Syrian culture unrelated to the Hebrews does not prove the validity of the bible. No evidence here.

* Many thought the Biblical references to Solomon's wealth were greatly exaggerated. Recovered records from the past show that wealth in antiquity was concentrated with the king and Solomon's prosperity was entirely feasible.

Some kings were very rich, therefore Solomon really existed. I don't think I need to say anything else about this. No evidence here.

* It was once claimed there was no Assyrian king named Sargon as recorded in Isaiah 20:1, because this name was not known in any other record. Then, Sargon's palace was discovered in Khorsabad, Iraq. The very event mentioned in Isaiah 20, his capture of Ashdod, was recorded on the palace walls. What is more, fragments of a stela memorializing the victory were found at Ashdod itself.

An Akkadian king named Sargon probably existed, therefore the bible is true. Another impossible logical jump. No evidence here.

* Another king who was in doubt was Belshazzar, king of Babylon, named in Daniel 5. The last king of Babylon was Nabonidus according to recorded history. Tablets were found showing that Belshazzar was Nabonidus' son who served as coregent in Babylon. Thus, Belshazzar could offer to make Daniel “third highest ruler in the kingdom” (Dan. 5:16) for reading the handwriting on the wall, the highest available position. Here we see the “eye-witness” nature of the Biblical record, as is so often brought out by the discoveries of archaeology.

A Babylonian king named Belshazzar probably existed, therefore the bible is true. Same bad logic. The fairy tale associated with Belshazzar is that his great wealth was stolen from Solomon's temple. We have evidence (Nabonidus Cylinder) of the Babylonian but no evidence of Solomon or Solomon's temple. Funny, huh?

So if I write a book that has Reagan and Gorbachev in it and in my book I was the emperor of a country greater than the US or USSR, is my book true? Also, Switzerland stole all my gold. Give it back.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Aww, they all left. No one left but us hell-bound heathens.

[Humerox]

First off...nice quote off of Wiki. You guys and you open source Wiki knowledge...lol.

And you? Are you implying that all your material is learned? I find that highly suspect. As to the credibility of Wikipedia:

By 2010 reviewers in medical and scientific fields such as toxicology, cancer research and drug information reviewing Wikipedia against professional and peer-reviewed sources found that Wikipedia's depth and coverage were of a very high standard, often comparable in coverage to physician databases and considerably better than well known reputable national media outlets. Wikipedia articles were cited as references in journals (614 cites in 2009) and as evidence in trademark and higher court rulings.


Now I'm very aware theology wasn't mentioned, however, Wiki has grown to be an extremely accurate and credible source. Much less could be said for your own source material - although I DO suspect you use Wiki as liberally as the rest of us. Step off the soap-box, sir.


Secondly I am not sure how I can get you guys to grasp the basics of the English language. I said and I quote, "(You do realize that thousands of History scholars even agree that many of the events in the bible are historically accurate and coincide with accepted historical teachings.)" I did not allude to events that you guys find questionable, but rather events in general like the ones I listed earlier.

Now...to what I said:

My issue was more with the fact that you made an implication that "thousands of historians" validated the acceptance of the Christian Bible as a historical document (granted you qualified that statement with "many instances", but the implication is - nevertheless - there). More accurate historical data could probably be found in the manuscripts that comprise the Kolbrin Bible than can be found in the Christian Bible.

Now, dear Boggwin...who missed what?

:p

[Humerox]

Aww, they all left. No one left but us hell-bound heathens.

Awww...snap.

I AM a theist, though...just not impressed with bible-thumping bullshit.

Does that count?

[Alawen Everywhere]

I'm curious about something here. How many of you who are agnostic or atheistic are quite about it in real life? I never talk about it with anyone except my mother, who is also an atheist. I have one very dear long-time friend who I still attend church with once in a while. She has no idea I'm an unbeliever. I had one very devout employer who promoted me in large part thinking I was a practicing Catholic. Whenever I fill out any form, I classify myself as Catholic.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Awww...snap.

I AM a theist, though...just not impressed with bible-thumping bullshit.

Does that count?

It's very hard to argue with any theists who keep their faith in the realm of faith and don't try to clobber anyone over the head with its undeniable truth. Buddhists are particularly difficult this way, and especially Zen Buddhists. We need us some bible thumpers.

[Kassel]

I never annouce my political or religous beliefs. I dont hide it if asked but why would anyone care.

And now for something Hilarious !

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2BCipg71LbI?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2BCipg71LbI?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

[chtulu]

I never annouce my political or religous beliefs. I dont hide it if asked but why would anyone care.

And now for something Hilarious !







This one that was related to your video is FAR better.

Especially at the end with Mr. Ku Klux at the end about black people.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IguW9xHd2qo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Massive Marc]

+++ brilliant.

Pant wearing monkeys trying to rationalize their mortality.

Get back to me when you trump Pascal's Wager! :p

You reminded me of something...

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/m538VFf5MH8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Alawen Everywhere]

Wow. I never pondered the racist angle of creationism before. I wonder if they're okay with the idea of blacks evolving from monkeys.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I recognize four of the symbols in that atheists.org billboard that has Bill Orly so worked up--Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Shinto. Does anyone know the fifth?

[Harrison]

Speaking of death, let's show a few examples of why the bible is insulting and violent. Anyone who believes that God word = perfect and true then the bible = perfect and true because God made the bible.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vkXOwBIRX7Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


And so with that in mind, 90% of the population should be killed.

You are so fucking dumb that it pains me to think that you may one day pass on your defective DNA.

[Alawen Everywhere]

You are so fucking dumb that it pains me to think that you may one day pass on your defective DNA.

Take a look at this link with your posts (http://www.project1999.org/forums/search.php?searchid=522697).

Do you realize that almost everything you post is cursing and personal attacks?

[chtulu]

You are so fucking dumb that it pains me to think that you may one day pass on your defective DNA.

Please, paint me a pretty picture with your words.

[chtulu]

Take a look at this link with your posts (http://www.project1999.org/forums/search.php?searchid=522697).

Do you realize that almost everything you post is cursing and personal attacks?

It's all he can do.

If all else fails yell louder and meaner.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Well look at his avatar photo. Proud-to-be-dumb white trash.

[Foulwed]

All I know is my grandpa told me "Son let me tell you something. There are 3 things you should never talk about Money,Religion,and Politics. These 3 things always end up in bitterness and possibly fist-o-cuffs.

Even though I have a view I'm keeping it to myself.

[chtulu]

Congratulations me on 100page thread of pure pandemonium.

[gruumsh]

There are more responses to this thread than playing :(

[gruumsh]

on the server

[Harrison]

Take a look at this link with your posts (http://www.project1999.org/forums/search.php?searchid=522697).

Do you realize that almost everything you post is cursing and personal attacks?

Alawen, you respond with words. He responds with youtube videos and copy/pasted wikipedia plagiarism.

You shouldn't lump yourself in with this excuse for shit.

I feel no need to respond to the likes of him. You have a brain. I feel as though a conversation with you would be fruitful, whereas one with him would be a drawn out joke about retards.

[chtulu]

Alawen, you respond with words. He responds with youtube videos and copy/pasted wikipedia plagiarism.

You shouldn't lump yourself in with this excuse for shit.

I feel no need to respond to the likes of him. You have a brain. I feel as though a conversation with you would be fruitful, whereas one with him would be a drawn out joke about retards.

aka he wants in your pants.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Alawen, you respond with words. He responds with youtube videos and copy/pasted wikipedia plagiarism.

You shouldn't lump yourself in with this excuse for shit.

I feel no need to respond to the likes of him. You have a brain. I feel as though a conversation with you would be fruitful, whereas one with him would be a drawn out joke about retards.

I'm not joining a team with him. I'm pointing out that you come across as extremely hostile lately. I like throwing some insults and f-bombs around now and again as much as the next guy, but damn.

Plus, I'm hoping someone will pick up the theist side of this discussion/argument/masturbatory indulgence.

[Harrison]

I'm not joining a team with him. I'm pointing out that you come across as extremely hostile lately. I like throwing some insults and f-bombs around now and again as much as the next guy, but damn.

Plus, I'm hoping someone will pick up the theist side of this discussion/argument/masturbatory indulgence.

I can't pick up that side. I am not a theist.

I come across as hostile because people like him disgust me. He spews right clicked info as his own.

[bigred]

God isn't the REAL issue here! Its the religious fanatics that give people a bad opinion thus converting to atheism!

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

God isn't the REAL issue here!
Deep.

[yaaaflow]

1000th post snypa