End of the rotation?

[Man0warr]

Sounds like Class C. The people who generally force poopsocking is usually Class R guilds on FFA targets. Sooo.. Yeah it's everything like Class C.

Yeah BDA does not get involved with VS/Trakanon poopsocks.

[Ravager]

Ahhhhh the good old days of P99, I have great memories of killing 95% of the raid targets for months on end.

Rickets must be a bitch to have.

[ClownGuild]

Yeah BDA does not get involved with VS/Trakanon poopsocks.

Poopsocks at Trak rarely happen. If he goes down to 1 hour left in window maybe. It's obvious BDA hasn't attempted an FFA Trak since forever. Willing to bet BDA gets very competitive for 1 out of every 3 Traks in R if this continues. VS poopsocking again was largely initiated by a Class R representative on FFA spawns.

[Mendo]

Yeah BDA does not get involved with VS/Trakanon poopsocks.

All Bards, Druids, Rangers, and Wizards from BDA feel free to apply to Asgard at Asgardguild.net. We will do our best to Compete against the powers that be and obtain your shiny new epic!

[kaev]

All Bards, Druids, Rangers, and Wizards from BDA feel free to apply to Asgard at Asgardguild.net. We will do our best to Compete against the powers that be and obtain your shiny new epic!

But what about the Paladins man? What about the Paladins???! Nobody ever thinks of the Paladins. :(

[Mendo]

But what about the Paladins man? What about the Paladins???! Nobody ever thinks of the Paladins. :(

Our guild policy is that all Paladins get automatic entry into the guild and get the golden shower of pixels from Pint. Paladins win when they join Asgard.

[Ravager]

Poopsocks at Trak rarely happen. If he goes down to 1 hour left in window maybe. It's obvious BDA hasn't attempted an FFA Trak since forever. Willing to bet BDA gets very competitive for 1 out of every 3 Traks in R if this continues. VS poopsocking again was largely initiated by a Class R representative on FFA spawns.

Anyone who exp's in Seb during any class c/ffa trak window knows this is a lie. Or are all those mages and necros and shamans at the zone-in that whole time just looking for a crypt group?

[Man0warr]

Poopsocks at Trak rarely happen. If he goes down to 1 hour left in window maybe. It's obvious BDA hasn't attempted an FFA Trak since forever. Willing to bet BDA gets very competitive for 1 out of every 3 Traks in R if this continues. VS poopsocking again was largely initiated by a Class R representative on FFA spawns.

Well competitive in the Class R context I guess. We might actually have a couple CotHers ready to go, but I doubt we'd have 2-3 groups logged in ready to go unless people are just severely bored.

[Detoxx]

Yeah, Chest is mistaken about that point. We were going after he king. The IP reference is to a group of A-Team or something that we beat to the punch for a queen that had IP.

Actually that might have been Asgard as well.

To be fair, you didn't maintain a presence at the camp, we got FTE on King with a clean engage, and you guys dropped the rest of king and queen room on us. We got rezzed up faster than you guys and still managed to kill the King.

To me, that's a fair method for contesting a camp (minus the train business).

Sound more and morel ike Class C every day. What are you waiting for Sirken, clearly they wont do it themselves.

[Raev]

Yeah, Chest is mistaken about that point. We were going after he king. The IP reference is to a group of A-Team or something that we beat to the punch for a queen that had IP.

Doubt it was A-Team unless it was LONG agao; the only Chardok competitions I remember were us beating you to a hammer (grats Coeur!), us wiping to the king with 7 and like 0 DPS when IB put some pressure on us before we were really ready, us not killing the Queen when she had the IP because it was 3AM and Europa picking it up the next day, and Taken pulling the same 'well w/e, the fact that you killed the previous round has no bearing on things' which is by consensus kind of a douchebag move, since no one really wants to sit there in the King's room for 2 hours.

[Juevento]

You seem to be stuck on the premise that the differentiation between class c and class r is that class r wants things handed to them. I never have and never will have a problem beating someone on an encounter. Preparedness for raids is just as important to a class r guild as it is to a class c guild.

The difference as I see it, is that I will never stoop to shady tactics to gain an advantage. I won't play the petition game. There is no such thing as mandatory attendance. This is a game, not a job. I play to have fun and I want to like the people I play with.

Just my opinion.

[Raev]

What will more likely happen is the smaller guilds will merge or dissolve or even better yet, step up to the plate and end up doing the same things asked for in the proposed rotation changes.

Basically the conclusion among the smaller guilds was if we are going to have to track and camp out like crazy, we'd rather do in on our own hours.

[bktroost]

Because of guild leaders & officers imo. 90% of players have no issue with people of different guilds, but our egos aren't at stake if we lose the mob to another guild. It comes down to simple tribal pride.

This has played a part in negotiations. About 15% of the reason things went south. I'd say we are more in the "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" stage right now. Everyone is looking at who is willing to do what and how big of a force can you muster if you tried, ect. It's possible that a month or two down the road, once we have all played our cards, we will say "okay, things are not how we thought they'd be, we should look to a rotation again with these changes..."

[Clasick]

I will never stoop to shady tactics to gain an advantage

Yea you and your guild don't stoop to shady tactics that's for sure.... oh wait, you're telling me that BDA proposal was not shady as fuck ?

Lol Keep the spin machine going.

If you guys had problems with guilds teaming up and taking two slots you should have dealt with that. Did you honestly think you would have a consensus on your proposal with keeping the epic mobs behind bullshit tiers ? If a guild can kill VS/Mystro/CT etc they should be able to go after those targets without your bullshit tier entry mobs

Oh yea, Fuck you Chest

[Archalen]

Hey Man0warr, You wanna go on my stream to represent your guild?

I was told you're a fucking idiot and super cringy by one of your guildmates so It would be good television.

Television? You'd better stick to radio buddy.

[Kushie]

Oh yea, Fuck you Chest


Yeah fuck you Chest, taking my free pixels. BDA so greedy, that's why some of it belongs in my inventory.

[Blaza]

Yeah fuck you Chest, taking my free pixels. BDA so greedy, that's why some of it belongs in my inventory.

All Pixels to Chest! He got 2 BCGs today. Was well deserved.

[Kushie]

And all I got this was this shitty Insignia Protector that I didn't even want? What the fuck.

[Lictor]

Television? You'd better stick to radio buddy.

Shhhhh don't bring up his looks. Last time his rl photo was linked he disappeared for months.

[Kaines]

As someone who does not raid on P99, but did raid on live from Velious to PoP, I wonder about a few things. The server I played on during live had a raiding guild setup not unlike P99 has now. There were 2 top raiding guilds on U.S. primetime, 1 big European guild, and anywhere from 3 - 6 other U.S. timezone raid guilds that were decidedly behind the top 3 (2 U.S., 1 European).

On that server, there were no rotations. Everything was get what you can when you can. I was a member of one of the lower guilds. During my time with the guild (Velious - PoP) we would rank anywhere from 4 - 6. Obviously not a top guild of any measure. But every single week, even when I started raided two or three months into Velious, we were still taking down multiple raid targets. Granted it wasn't AoW or NToV, but we raided, we killed stuff, we got pixels.

The thing I remember most about raiding during that time is that every Tuesday night (after the weekly server restarts) the first thing we did was figure out what target the top 2 guilds were going after. Usually they were gathering in Kael or Tov, and eventually Sleepers. We would use the time they spent there to take on other targets. We'd go to Fear, Hate, Trak, DN. Or hell, if Top guild 1 was in NToV and top guild 2 was in Kael, we'd go to HoT. ToV easily held 3 guilds at a time. One in North, one in West, and one in HoT. The number of raid targets meant that the top guilds couldn't be everywhere at once.

Usually by Thursday of each most of the best targets were down. ToV was clear, CT was killed, Kael was cleaned out, and eventually the Wardens (all but 1) would have been taken down. But even then, there was stuff to do. HoT for SS armor, Kael arena for dwarf armor, WToV for giant armor, Dain Ring wars, WW dragons, etc. Sure it was only raiding 1 or 2 nights a week, but is that any different than P99 is now?

So my question is this. What the hell is allowing TMO/IB the ability to seem to be everywhere? Is it really so bad that even the top Class R guild can't figure out how to get their guild to a secondary target while TMO and IB play train games in VP? I mean on my live server we had a Euro guild that would take any juicy raid target that popped when U.S. guilds were asleep/at work, so it's not like U.S. guilds could just leave something up overnight and expect it to be there the next day. We also had a 12 hour variance for most targets during live and we were able to manage just fine.

[Mendo]

Shhhhh don't bring up his looks. Last time his rl photo was linked he disappeared for months.

Isn't this the guy that has sex with GMs? Sounds like he has video game good looks!

[radditsu]

He looks fine for a fat guy. Stop attacking looks.

[radditsu]

Make fun of his girth

[eqnewb]

First of all, thanks to Argh and Daldaen especially for their objective input.
Secondly, Rants and Flames post is just that, everyone pointing fingers and lobbying for their side, or someone poking fun at those who are getting so emotionally attached to the issue (I'm not judging, I've been in a similar situation in the past!).

So now, to just make some observations from somewhat who, as I like to repeat, has not participated in the raid/guild scene on this server and is only now starting to figure out where I want to go. I do not make any harsh judgments, because everyone has their own style by which they want to play the game, and everyone, no matter how hardcore or casual, wants to be able to get level 60, do their epic, kill dragons, and above all else, have fun. Isn't that the whole point of us playing this 15 year old game? To relive the great memories of being chased down by polar bears and camping elite gnolls, to fighting giants and frogloks and vampires, to gathering an army to take down a dragon!
Observation 1: There is clearly a gap between guilds in class R. There seems to be the "big 3" as many people have mentioned, a middle tier of guilds who are quite capable in their own right but perhaps are not as powerful in their own right, the "middle tier" we can call them, and then the bottom tier, which seems to be the more casual guilds and/or the new guilds trying to break into class R. This of course completely ignores the fact that class C is an entire tier above all of these, as they are the "competitive" raiders as the GMs/servers like to call it.
Comments: I know from my experiences in raiding that this type of divide is always going to happen naturally. You are going to have your high end hardcores that the majority of the server hates and claims they have no life and just poop sock for days and ruin the fun for everybody. You have the 2nd tier hardcores who in all reality are just as devoted to the game as the 1st tier hardcores if but only they had more time to play, but real life takes up more of their time. Then you have the "casual" hardcores, people who call themselves casuals but in reality, they spend too much time in Norrath to be a simple casual player. And you could continue breaking these tiers further and further down to each individual player, as everyone has their own ideal way to play the game, whether that be to be the best player on the server, have the best gear, compete with other guilds, or simply relive old dungeons, kill a dragon, and socialize with other people who share an interest in Norrath!
Observation 2: Ending the rotation seems to be a very unpopular decision. The top 3 guilds claim that they are tired of sharing rotation slots with the lower tier (in all honesty, I would say it's just the bottom tier of class R, the middle class R guilds I doubt they have a problem with) of class R and would rather just FFA the loots, as they have the advantage when it comes to class R mobs (naturally, they are the more powerful guilds). The middle tier seems to be very accusing and pointing fingers at those 3, with trying to cite different situations when they could not compromise or whatever else. Finger pointing back and forth ensues, and thus you have our 75 page long rants and flames post (of which I'm only on page 20something, but you can only listen to politicians in the making rant for so long). The bottom tier of class R clearly is unhappy with this decision because it effectively prevents them from getting a shot at a lot of targets they would have otherwise got to attempt under the old system.
Comments: What are the pros/cons with this situation? If class R mobs go to FFA, I would think it would make for a healthier type of competition on mobs. First, because every guild would have a shot at every mobs. Also, because of the class R restrictions on mobs, the "big 3" would still be restricted from claiming every mob all the time. And I do not believe the middle tier would be unable to compete; quite the opposite really. If we think about the outcomes, say the "big 3" win 60% of the loot and the rest of class R win 40%, the "big 3" are naturally larger guilds, and thus have to split the gear amongst a larger player base, while some of the middle tier guilds tend to be smaller, with a lower player base to split gear amongst. (perhaps not entirely accurate, but generally speaking I would expect this to be true). Continuing along this line of thinking, if middle to bottom tier guilds are having trouble competing for mobs, they could team up to contest larger dragons and/or compete with the "big 3" on things. From what I have gathered, this was already occuring under the old system, only it was on their rotation slot, rather than in a FFA situation.
Obviously, FFA comes with its own drawbacks. First and foremost, the bottom tier guilds, even if they tried to form alliances, would have significant problems competing with the larger and more experienced guilds. Secondly, as we have seen with class C, lines are quickly drawn in the sand and people who once worked together would quickly become blood enemies, which quickly leaks into the general population of guilds and hatred ensues. I have already experienced guilds showing their unappreciation towards others guilds in situations where perhaps someone was accidentally trained, or they pulled a mob from someone's camp. Rather than react in a civil manner, people tend to assume the worst in these situations. This kind of divide is already starting as we have seen in RnF, guild leaders/officers are already voicing their disapproval of one another.
Observation 3: The dissolving of the rotation is a loot, or pixel as many people tend to term it around these parts, driven move. No matter how the "big 3" guilds want to sugar coat it, they are unhappy about losing loots to lower tier guilds, and believe a FFA situation would allow the situation to normalize in their favor.
Comments: What is wrong with this? Why are they so against admitting to such desires? I have a theory: They are trying to not become what they claim to despise, the hardcores, the class Cs! Making a political move to benefit themselves and bring more loots to their guild is indeed a selfish move, but what is wrong with an officer core pushing to bring the best for their own members? Is that not what they are supposed to do? If they are acting in what they believe is in the best interest of their respective guilds, then by all means, more power to them. Obviously it is an unpopular decision, but is that not how the world typically works? Tier levels of raiders at work here, I say.
In rebuttal, the mid tier R guilds can still compete. They can still fight, and with much more motivation, I would imagine, as they are trying to prove they can still compete with the "big 3". I would imagine this could develop into some healthy competition amongst guilds, if handled appropriately. Of course, it could always go horribly wrong and end with guilds training one another and suspensions being levied to everyone.
Observation 4: The "big 3" are afraid of Class C. Perhaps not without good reason. Their officers understand they cannot realistically compete with TMO/IB on a regular basis to earn enough loots for their respective guilds. Again, they are operating to achieve the highest possible loot numbers for their members, as that is what it always boils down to in this and most every PVE MMO: loots. What other tangible currency is there in EQ? Earning loot is the only way to achieve both wealth as a guild, and to reward its players for loyalty. I feel like I am talking about medieval Europe, when the lords would give loyalty to their kings in return for land and riches.
Comments: I do not have a realistic solution to this situation. I'm not sure there is one. It is the curse of the 2nd tier raiders. They will continue to bully class R, or they will move to Class C and go from the bullies to the little kids being picked on. Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me that is the situation and the line they are trying to stay so close to but not cross.

What is there as a reasonable conclusion to all of this? Ending the R rotation may not be all bad, though it could have some long-term side effects unforseen atm. There definitely is a disparity between guilds in class R, but perhaps an even larger one between those and that of class C. Perhaps FFA would cause a shift in power, and perhaps not. I find it a very interesting topic to learn more about, as the politics in MMOs have always interested me. Everyone has their own side, and what they want is right and what someone else wants is wrong. Cooperation can be difficult in those situations, and I do not have an answer. I am not sure anyone does, and so perhaps FFA is inevitable.
I want to reiterate that I do not know anyone here personally and I do not know the situations 100% completely. There are 2 sides to every story and then the truth. If I misspoke about a situation, please continue to fill me in, as again I find the political intricacies quite fascinating. If some grammar/spelling is messed up, I apologize for that, but I'm not an English major =P

[captnamazing]

Katrik PM'd me a photo of Tiggles, and upon opening the link to behold this behemoth, something changed. All the items on my desk levitated. Suddenly, a force pulled my head toward the monitor. I could not resist. Don't start thinking I was going in to kiss his pixelated image, no, this was a force of NATURE. By this point, my entire body hovered above ground, stuck to the side of the glowing screen. I felt my bones breaking under the force, the chair raised up and slammed into my back, all the books on my shelf came off and started clubbing me in my head, trying to get to the screen. 'What's happening?' I wondered silently. I instinctively recalled Newton's theory of gravitation... "Gravity gives weight to physical objects and causes them to fall toward one another."

Could someone really be so fat that their image can create a gravitational pull greater than the Earth??

Using every joule of strength in my body (because why would you measure strength in ounces), I managed to unplug the monitor. Everything, including myself, instantly fell away from the screen. I was bloody, beaten, and shaking. That day, I learned that gravity is not a theory - it is a law.

[Llodd]

Rogean was tired of a single guild getting all the kills.

At worst, it will be 5 guilds now getting all the kills (with 3 of those 5 getting an even smaller amount).

More likely Taken/Div/BDA get 60-70% of the kills in Class R, and the smaller guilds get the rest unless they start to alliance (which they seemed against doing unless it was their own terms) and be more serious about it.

Still way more than we got in the 4 years preceding, which was zero.

Whilst that might be correct it's misleading and goes against what Rogean actually said. Read this and have your light bulb moment. Then tell your guildies.

"Raid Scene
It continues to be an aggravating realization among CSR staff that 10% of the server population causes 90% of the problems. We are all for competition, but it needs to be fair competition. We are also all here for the same thing, to experience classic Everquest. The same guild monopolizing raid content for 2 years that they might not even need anymore is ridiculous, just to block other guilds from the chance of gearing up to take on the same end game content.

I was thinking to myself the other day and I came to ask myself.. Are we providing this server to give people the arena to compete to such bitter extremes that it has resorted to taking every absolute measure to be victorious, or are we here to provide a classic Everquest experience for everyone to enjoy?

A lot of you make fun of it in your own terms, but it really does come down to fighting over very old content.

Either way, we're tired of the constant bickering, the training, the ninja looting, and all the other bullshit that's going on. So here's what we're going to do.

Starting today and then evaluated when Velious is released the CSR staff will be keeping track of how the raid guilds are treating eachother. If we do not see a significant improvement in the behavior of the raiding guilds and how they treat eachother, Velious will be released without raid content. To be clear, we want an enjoyable raid scene for everyone, not just one or two guilds. This means working together to figure out a compromise when racing for mobs, and working with smaller guilds to let them have a chance at mobs you don't absolutely need for gearing main characters.

Don't think that this means you can continue shitting on each other and just not petition, the staff will still be watching."

[Llodd]

So, if class R is a total FFA sockfest now, what's the difference between class R and class C short of being allowed to kill VP mobs? :confused: Wasn't class R championed as a different playstyle? It just seems like now BDA and Taken can compete with 'lower' guilds while being protected from IB and TMO. Obviously BDA is already embracing and celebrating their new playstyle.

It wont be as hardcore as C (lockouts prevent that to an extent); but yes if it turns out that some guilds get close to the levels of neckbeardism generally associated with class C I fully expect them to be moved up even if they dont want to.

[Kekephee]

Last night the "total ffa sockfest" looked like this:

12 of us stood there at the Fear portal chatting in vent about some weird redneck shit Ganakus was saying, this webseries that I was in, Filbert promising that I can marry his beautiful cousin, and like 30 minutes of debate between Chest and everyone else over which Rob Lowe directtv character is the best: Hairy Rob Lowe, Creepy Rob Lowe, or Football Meme Rob Lowe. Slowly but surely over the course of about 2 hours everyone said "ok fuck this I'm going to bed" until there were 5 of us left, then we gave up. Somebody who had the day off or something logged in this morning and tracked for I would guess an hour, the mob popped, a batphone was sent out and people who weren't at work logged in and killed the dragon.

Not exactly a nerve-fraying weekend Trakanon spawn point clusterfuck like it was before the rotation.

[radditsu]

The answer is super buff rob lowe.

[Juevento]

We also talked about pirate elf and how cool it is. Btw I heard Nekrage was back. It's gonna get good again if that's true.

[Kekephee]

We also talked about pirate elf and how cool it is. Btw I heard Nekrage was back. It's gonna get good again if that's true.

Oh god damn it no not that anything but that

[bigsykedaddy]

Because of guild leaders & officers imo. 90% of players have no issue with people of different guilds, but our egos aren't at stake if we lose the mob to another guild. It comes down to simple tribal pride.

speak for yourself, I don't hate anyone in this game or server except Chest.

[bigsykedaddy]

As someone who does not raid on P99, but did raid on live from Velious to PoP, I wonder about a few things. The server I played on during live had a raiding guild setup not unlike P99 has now. There were 2 top raiding guilds on U.S. primetime, 1 big European guild, and anywhere from 3 - 6 other U.S. timezone raid guilds that were decidedly behind the top 3 (2 U.S., 1 European).

On that server, there were no rotations. Everything was get what you can when you can. I was a member of one of the lower guilds. During my time with the guild (Velious - PoP) we would rank anywhere from 4 - 6. Obviously not a top guild of any measure. But every single week, even when I started raided two or three months into Velious, we were still taking down multiple raid targets. Granted it wasn't AoW or NToV, but we raided, we killed stuff, we got pixels.

The thing I remember most about raiding during that time is that every Tuesday night (after the weekly server restarts) the first thing we did was figure out what target the top 2 guilds were going after. Usually they were gathering in Kael or Tov, and eventually Sleepers. We would use the time they spent there to take on other targets. We'd go to Fear, Hate, Trak, DN. Or hell, if Top guild 1 was in NToV and top guild 2 was in Kael, we'd go to HoT. ToV easily held 3 guilds at a time. One in North, one in West, and one in HoT. The number of raid targets meant that the top guilds couldn't be everywhere at once.

Usually by Thursday of each most of the best targets were down. ToV was clear, CT was killed, Kael was cleaned out, and eventually the Wardens (all but 1) would have been taken down. But even then, there was stuff to do. HoT for SS armor, Kael arena for dwarf armor, WToV for giant armor, Dain Ring wars, WW dragons, etc. Sure it was only raiding 1 or 2 nights a week, but is that any different than P99 is now?

So my question is this. What the hell is allowing TMO/IB the ability to seem to be everywhere? Is it really so bad that even the top Class R guild can't figure out how to get their guild to a secondary target while TMO and IB play train games in VP? I mean on my live server we had a Euro guild that would take any juicy raid target that popped when U.S. guilds were asleep/at work, so it's not like U.S. guilds could just leave something up overnight and expect it to be there the next day. We also had a 12 hour variance for most targets during live and we were able to manage just fine.

See this is someone with common sense!

[radditsu]

As someone who does not raid on P99, but did raid on live from Velious to PoP, I wonder about a few things. The server I played on during live had a raiding guild setup not unlike P99 has now. There were 2 top raiding guilds on U.S. primetime, 1 big European guild, and anywhere from 3 - 6 other U.S. timezone raid guilds that were decidedly behind the top 3 (2 U.S., 1 European).

On that server, there were no rotations. Everything was get what you can when you can. I was a member of one of the lower guilds. During my time with the guild (Velious - PoP) we would rank anywhere from 4 - 6. Obviously not a top guild of any measure. But every single week, even when I started raided two or three months into Velious, we were still taking down multiple raid targets. Granted it wasn't AoW or NToV, but we raided, we killed stuff, we got pixels.

The thing I remember most about raiding during that time is that every Tuesday night (after the weekly server restarts) the first thing we did was figure out what target the top 2 guilds were going after. Usually they were gathering in Kael or Tov, and eventually Sleepers. We would use the time they spent there to take on other targets. We'd go to Fear, Hate, Trak, DN. Or hell, if Top guild 1 was in NToV and top guild 2 was in Kael, we'd go to HoT. ToV easily held 3 guilds at a time. One in North, one in West, and one in HoT. The number of raid targets meant that the top guilds couldn't be everywhere at once.

Usually by Thursday of each most of the best targets were down. ToV was clear, CT was killed, Kael was cleaned out, and eventually the Wardens (all but 1) would have been taken down. But even then, there was stuff to do. HoT for SS armor, Kael arena for dwarf armor, WToV for giant armor, Dain Ring wars, WW dragons, etc. Sure it was only raiding 1 or 2 nights a week, but is that any different than P99 is now?

So my question is this. What the hell is allowing TMO/IB the ability to seem to be everywhere? Is it really so bad that even the top Class R guild can't figure out how to get their guild to a secondary target while TMO and IB play train games in VP? I mean on my live server we had a Euro guild that would take any juicy raid target that popped when U.S. guilds were asleep/at work, so it's not like U.S. guilds could just leave something up overnight and expect it to be there the next day. We also had a 12 hour variance for most targets during live and we were able to manage just fine.



Kunark is not velious. Kunark is lightweight pussy shit. Kunark barely matters in velious. Also...highspeed internet...batphones...faster pc.... knowing the strats...zero linkdead clerics....and lets not forget....

KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE ZERG RUSH.

Velious will not be as kind

[arsenalpow]

The answer is super buff rob lowe.

This is the official BDA website poll atm. We use the poll for very important subjects

http://i.imgur.com/tuRSoHm.jpg

I voted for Overly Paranoid Rob Lowe

[radditsu]

Should hook me up with that access again.

[arsenalpow]

Should hook me up with that access again.

sure, just return that cloak of piety

[radditsu]

No drop. Want my account info?

[Ella`Ella]

As someone who does not raid on P99, but did raid on live from Velious to PoP, I wonder about a few things. The server I played on during live had a raiding guild setup not unlike P99 has now. There were 2 top raiding guilds on U.S. primetime, 1 big European guild, and anywhere from 3 - 6 other U.S. timezone raid guilds that were decidedly behind the top 3 (2 U.S., 1 European).

On that server, there were no rotations. Everything was get what you can when you can. I was a member of one of the lower guilds. During my time with the guild (Velious - PoP) we would rank anywhere from 4 - 6. Obviously not a top guild of any measure. But every single week, even when I started raided two or three months into Velious, we were still taking down multiple raid targets. Granted it wasn't AoW or NToV, but we raided, we killed stuff, we got pixels.

The thing I remember most about raiding during that time is that every Tuesday night (after the weekly server restarts) the first thing we did was figure out what target the top 2 guilds were going after. Usually they were gathering in Kael or Tov, and eventually Sleepers. We would use the time they spent there to take on other targets. We'd go to Fear, Hate, Trak, DN. Or hell, if Top guild 1 was in NToV and top guild 2 was in Kael, we'd go to HoT. ToV easily held 3 guilds at a time. One in North, one in West, and one in HoT. The number of raid targets meant that the top guilds couldn't be everywhere at once.

Usually by Thursday of each most of the best targets were down. ToV was clear, CT was killed, Kael was cleaned out, and eventually the Wardens (all but 1) would have been taken down. But even then, there was stuff to do. HoT for SS armor, Kael arena for dwarf armor, WToV for giant armor, Dain Ring wars, WW dragons, etc. Sure it was only raiding 1 or 2 nights a week, but is that any different than P99 is now?

So my question is this. What the hell is allowing TMO/IB the ability to seem to be everywhere? Is it really so bad that even the top Class R guild can't figure out how to get their guild to a secondary target while TMO and IB play train games in VP? I mean on my live server we had a Euro guild that would take any juicy raid target that popped when U.S. guilds were asleep/at work, so it's not like U.S. guilds could just leave something up overnight and expect it to be there the next day. We also had a 12 hour variance for most targets during live and we were able to manage just fine.

There are a few factors,

On live, there was no Chest or BDA tears

There were no batphones back then to alert everyone when a target popped at 4am

Players didn't have 6 accounts and 6 level 60's with all their friends and guildies having login info

Kunark wasn't out for 3.5 years

[Kaines]

There are a few factors,

On live, there was no Chest or BDA tears

There were no batphones back then to alert everyone when a target popped at 4am

Players didn't have 6 accounts and 6 level 60's with all their friends and guildies having login info

Kunark wasn't out for 3.5 years

So what you're saying is... shit's not classic?

[Fenken]

RIP EQ raiding(as a whole on this server). Making alts and leveling up in casual groups is the only way to have fun here anymore. All other raiding, other than plane raids in essence, have been ruined by a bunch of whiny kids/adults who play this game as a job, not as a game.

It's sad how many good people I've leveled/guilded with over the last couple years and have gotten to know well, that have quit completely once they had gotten to the raiding part here.

Having to give up your own personal number for a fucking video GAME to get paged at any hour of the day to come kill something in 20 seconds...I mean, what is wrong with you people.

[Gimp]

RIP EQ raiding(as a whole on this server). Making alts and leveling up in casual groups is the only way to have fun here anymore. All other raiding, other than plane raids in essence, have been ruined by a bunch of whiny kids/adults who play this game as a job, not as a game.

It's sad how many good people I've leveled/guilded with over the last couple years and have gotten to know well, that have quit completely once they had gotten to the raiding part here.

Having to give up your own personal number for a fucking video GAME to get paged at any hour of the day to come kill something in 20 seconds...I mean, what is wrong with you people.

RIP Scars of Amerous

LOVE YOU FENKEN

[Cecily]

No drop. Want my account info?

I remember how proud you were to get that cloak because it would increase sale value of your account.
Always admired that.

[Fenken]

RIP Scars of Amerous

LOVE YOU FENKEN

ahahaha FO SURE

<3 gimpy :D

[Blaza]

There are a few factors,

On live, there was no Chest or BDA tears

There were no batphones back then to alert everyone when a target popped at 4am

Players didn't have 6 accounts and 6 level 60's with all their friends and guildies having login info

Kunark wasn't out for 3.5 years

There seems to be the rub.

[kaev]

There seems to be the rub.

I could use a good backrub about now.

[Nivar Quartz]

First of all, thanks to Argh and Daldaen especially for their objective input.
Secondly, Rants and Flames post is just that, everyone pointing fingers and lobbying for their side, or someone poking fun at those who are getting so emotionally attached to the issue (I'm not judging, I've been in a similar situation in the past!).

So now, to just make some observations from somewhat who, as I like to repeat, has not participated in the raid/guild scene on this server and is only now starting to figure out where I want to go. I do not make any harsh judgments, because everyone has their own style by which they want to play the game, and everyone, no matter how hardcore or casual, wants to be able to get level 60, do their epic, kill dragons, and above all else, have fun. Isn't that the whole point of us playing this 15 year old game? To relive the great memories of being chased down by polar bears and camping elite gnolls, to fighting giants and frogloks and vampires, to gathering an army to take down a dragon!
Observation 1: There is clearly a gap between guilds in class R. There seems to be the "big 3" as many people have mentioned, a middle tier of guilds who are quite capable in their own right but perhaps are not as powerful in their own right, the "middle tier" we can call them, and then the bottom tier, which seems to be the more casual guilds and/or the new guilds trying to break into class R. This of course completely ignores the fact that class C is an entire tier above all of these, as they are the "competitive" raiders as the GMs/servers like to call it.
Comments: I know from my experiences in raiding that this type of divide is always going to happen naturally. You are going to have your high end hardcores that the majority of the server hates and claims they have no life and just poop sock for days and ruin the fun for everybody. You have the 2nd tier hardcores who in all reality are just as devoted to the game as the 1st tier hardcores if but only they had more time to play, but real life takes up more of their time. Then you have the "casual" hardcores, people who call themselves casuals but in reality, they spend too much time in Norrath to be a simple casual player. And you could continue breaking these tiers further and further down to each individual player, as everyone has their own ideal way to play the game, whether that be to be the best player on the server, have the best gear, compete with other guilds, or simply relive old dungeons, kill a dragon, and socialize with other people who share an interest in Norrath!
Observation 2: Ending the rotation seems to be a very unpopular decision. The top 3 guilds claim that they are tired of sharing rotation slots with the lower tier (in all honesty, I would say it's just the bottom tier of class R, the middle class R guilds I doubt they have a problem with) of class R and would rather just FFA the loots, as they have the advantage when it comes to class R mobs (naturally, they are the more powerful guilds). The middle tier seems to be very accusing and pointing fingers at those 3, with trying to cite different situations when they could not compromise or whatever else. Finger pointing back and forth ensues, and thus you have our 75 page long rants and flames post (of which I'm only on page 20something, but you can only listen to politicians in the making rant for so long). The bottom tier of class R clearly is unhappy with this decision because it effectively prevents them from getting a shot at a lot of targets they would have otherwise got to attempt under the old system.
Comments: What are the pros/cons with this situation? If class R mobs go to FFA, I would think it would make for a healthier type of competition on mobs. First, because every guild would have a shot at every mobs. Also, because of the class R restrictions on mobs, the "big 3" would still be restricted from claiming every mob all the time. And I do not believe the middle tier would be unable to compete; quite the opposite really. If we think about the outcomes, say the "big 3" win 60% of the loot and the rest of class R win 40%, the "big 3" are naturally larger guilds, and thus have to split the gear amongst a larger player base, while some of the middle tier guilds tend to be smaller, with a lower player base to split gear amongst. (perhaps not entirely accurate, but generally speaking I would expect this to be true). Continuing along this line of thinking, if middle to bottom tier guilds are having trouble competing for mobs, they could team up to contest larger dragons and/or compete with the "big 3" on things. From what I have gathered, this was already occuring under the old system, only it was on their rotation slot, rather than in a FFA situation.
Obviously, FFA comes with its own drawbacks. First and foremost, the bottom tier guilds, even if they tried to form alliances, would have significant problems competing with the larger and more experienced guilds. Secondly, as we have seen with class C, lines are quickly drawn in the sand and people who once worked together would quickly become blood enemies, which quickly leaks into the general population of guilds and hatred ensues. I have already experienced guilds showing their unappreciation towards others guilds in situations where perhaps someone was accidentally trained, or they pulled a mob from someone's camp. Rather than react in a civil manner, people tend to assume the worst in these situations. This kind of divide is already starting as we have seen in RnF, guild leaders/officers are already voicing their disapproval of one another.
Observation 3: The dissolving of the rotation is a loot, or pixel as many people tend to term it around these parts, driven move. No matter how the "big 3" guilds want to sugar coat it, they are unhappy about losing loots to lower tier guilds, and believe a FFA situation would allow the situation to normalize in their favor.
Comments: What is wrong with this? Why are they so against admitting to such desires? I have a theory: They are trying to not become what they claim to despise, the hardcores, the class Cs! Making a political move to benefit themselves and bring more loots to their guild is indeed a selfish move, but what is wrong with an officer core pushing to bring the best for their own members? Is that not what they are supposed to do? If they are acting in what they believe is in the best interest of their respective guilds, then by all means, more power to them. Obviously it is an unpopular decision, but is that not how the world typically works? Tier levels of raiders at work here, I say.
In rebuttal, the mid tier R guilds can still compete. They can still fight, and with much more motivation, I would imagine, as they are trying to prove they can still compete with the "big 3". I would imagine this could develop into some healthy competition amongst guilds, if handled appropriately. Of course, it could always go horribly wrong and end with guilds training one another and suspensions being levied to everyone.
Observation 4: The "big 3" are afraid of Class C. Perhaps not without good reason. Their officers understand they cannot realistically compete with TMO/IB on a regular basis to earn enough loots for their respective guilds. Again, they are operating to achieve the highest possible loot numbers for their members, as that is what it always boils down to in this and most every PVE MMO: loots. What other tangible currency is there in EQ? Earning loot is the only way to achieve both wealth as a guild, and to reward its players for loyalty. I feel like I am talking about medieval Europe, when the lords would give loyalty to their kings in return for land and riches.
Comments: I do not have a realistic solution to this situation. I'm not sure there is one. It is the curse of the 2nd tier raiders. They will continue to bully class R, or they will move to Class C and go from the bullies to the little kids being picked on. Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me that is the situation and the line they are trying to stay so close to but not cross.

What is there as a reasonable conclusion to all of this? Ending the R rotation may not be all bad, though it could have some long-term side effects unforseen atm. There definitely is a disparity between guilds in class R, but perhaps an even larger one between those and that of class C. Perhaps FFA would cause a shift in power, and perhaps not. I find it a very interesting topic to learn more about, as the politics in MMOs have always interested me. Everyone has their own side, and what they want is right and what someone else wants is wrong. Cooperation can be difficult in those situations, and I do not have an answer. I am not sure anyone does, and so perhaps FFA is inevitable.
I want to reiterate that I do not know anyone here personally and I do not know the situations 100% completely. There are 2 sides to every story and then the truth. If I misspoke about a situation, please continue to fill me in, as again I find the political intricacies quite fascinating. If some grammar/spelling is messed up, I apologize for that, but I'm not an English major =P

wtf

http://i.imgur.com/hlLMsyr.gif

[Cecily]

First of all, thanks to Argh and Daldaen especially for their objective input.
Secondly, Rants and Flames post is just that, everyone pointing fingers and lobbying for their side, or someone poking fun at those who are getting so emotionally attached to the issue (I'm not judging, I've been in a similar situation in the past!).

So now, to just make some observations from somewhat who, as I like to repeat, has not participated in the raid/guild scene on this server and is only now starting to figure out where I want to go. I do not make any harsh judgments, because everyone has their own style by which they want to play the game, and everyone, no matter how hardcore or casual, wants to be able to get level 60, do their epic, kill dragons, and above all else, have fun. Isn't that the whole point of us playing this 15 year old game? To relive the great memories of being chased down by polar bears and camping elite gnolls, to fighting giants and frogloks and vampires, to gathering an army to take down a dragon!
Observation 1: There is clearly a gap between guilds in class R. There seems to be the "big 3" as many people have mentioned, a middle tier of guilds who are quite capable in their own right but perhaps are not as powerful in their own right, the "middle tier" we can call them, and then the bottom tier, which seems to be the more casual guilds and/or the new guilds trying to break into class R. This of course completely ignores the fact that class C is an entire tier above all of these, as they are the "competitive" raiders as the GMs/servers like to call it.
Comments: I know from my experiences in raiding that this type of divide is always going to happen naturally. You are going to have your high end hardcores that the majority of the server hates and claims they have no life and just poop sock for days and ruin the fun for everybody. You have the 2nd tier hardcores who in all reality are just as devoted to the game as the 1st tier hardcores if but only they had more time to play, but real life takes up more of their time. Then you have the "casual" hardcores, people who call themselves casuals but in reality, they spend too much time in Norrath to be a simple casual player. And you could continue breaking these tiers further and further down to each individual player, as everyone has their own ideal way to play the game, whether that be to be the best player on the server, have the best gear, compete with other guilds, or simply relive old dungeons, kill a dragon, and socialize with other people who share an interest in Norrath!
Observation 2: Ending the rotation seems to be a very unpopular decision. The top 3 guilds claim that they are tired of sharing rotation slots with the lower tier (in all honesty, I would say it's just the bottom tier of class R, the middle class R guilds I doubt they have a problem with) of class R and would rather just FFA the loots, as they have the advantage when it comes to class R mobs (naturally, they are the more powerful guilds). The middle tier seems to be very accusing and pointing fingers at those 3, with trying to cite different situations when they could not compromise or whatever else. Finger pointing back and forth ensues, and thus you have our 75 page long rants and flames post (of which I'm only on page 20something, but you can only listen to politicians in the making rant for so long). The bottom tier of class R clearly is unhappy with this decision because it effectively prevents them from getting a shot at a lot of targets they would have otherwise got to attempt under the old system.
Comments: What are the pros/cons with this situation? If class R mobs go to FFA, I would think it would make for a healthier type of competition on mobs. First, because every guild would have a shot at every mobs. Also, because of the class R restrictions on mobs, the "big 3" would still be restricted from claiming every mob all the time. And I do not believe the middle tier would be unable to compete; quite the opposite really. If we think about the outcomes, say the "big 3" win 60% of the loot and the rest of class R win 40%, the "big 3" are naturally larger guilds, and thus have to split the gear amongst a larger player base, while some of the middle tier guilds tend to be smaller, with a lower player base to split gear amongst. (perhaps not entirely accurate, but generally speaking I would expect this to be true). Continuing along this line of thinking, if middle to bottom tier guilds are having trouble competing for mobs, they could team up to contest larger dragons and/or compete with the "big 3" on things. From what I have gathered, this was already occuring under the old system, only it was on their rotation slot, rather than in a FFA situation.
Obviously, FFA comes with its own drawbacks. First and foremost, the bottom tier guilds, even if they tried to form alliances, would have significant problems competing with the larger and more experienced guilds. Secondly, as we have seen with class C, lines are quickly drawn in the sand and people who once worked together would quickly become blood enemies, which quickly leaks into the general population of guilds and hatred ensues. I have already experienced guilds showing their unappreciation towards others guilds in situations where perhaps someone was accidentally trained, or they pulled a mob from someone's camp. Rather than react in a civil manner, people tend to assume the worst in these situations. This kind of divide is already starting as we have seen in RnF, guild leaders/officers are already voicing their disapproval of one another.
Observation 3: The dissolving of the rotation is a loot, or pixel as many people tend to term it around these parts, driven move. No matter how the "big 3" guilds want to sugar coat it, they are unhappy about losing loots to lower tier guilds, and believe a FFA situation would allow the situation to normalize in their favor.
Comments: What is wrong with this? Why are they so against admitting to such desires? I have a theory: They are trying to not become what they claim to despise, the hardcores, the class Cs! Making a political move to benefit themselves and bring more loots to their guild is indeed a selfish move, but what is wrong with an officer core pushing to bring the best for their own members? Is that not what they are supposed to do? If they are acting in what they believe is in the best interest of their respective guilds, then by all means, more power to them. Obviously it is an unpopular decision, but is that not how the world typically works? Tier levels of raiders at work here, I say.
In rebuttal, the mid tier R guilds can still compete. They can still fight, and with much more motivation, I would imagine, as they are trying to prove they can still compete with the "big 3". I would imagine this could develop into some healthy competition amongst guilds, if handled appropriately. Of course, it could always go horribly wrong and end with guilds training one another and suspensions being levied to everyone.
Observation 4: The "big 3" are afraid of Class C. Perhaps not without good reason. Their officers understand they cannot realistically compete with TMO/IB on a regular basis to earn enough loots for their respective guilds. Again, they are operating to achieve the highest possible loot numbers for their members, as that is what it always boils down to in this and most every PVE MMO: loots. What other tangible currency is there in EQ? Earning loot is the only way to achieve both wealth as a guild, and to reward its players for loyalty. I feel like I am talking about medieval Europe, when the lords would give loyalty to their kings in return for land and riches.
Comments: I do not have a realistic solution to this situation. I'm not sure there is one. It is the curse of the 2nd tier raiders. They will continue to bully class R, or they will move to Class C and go from the bullies to the little kids being picked on. Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me that is the situation and the line they are trying to stay so close to but not cross.

What is there as a reasonable conclusion to all of this? Ending the R rotation may not be all bad, though it could have some long-term side effects unforseen atm. There definitely is a disparity between guilds in class R, but perhaps an even larger one between those and that of class C. Perhaps FFA would cause a shift in power, and perhaps not. I find it a very interesting topic to learn more about, as the politics in MMOs have always interested me. Everyone has their own side, and what they want is right and what someone else wants is wrong. Cooperation can be difficult in those situations, and I do not have an answer. I am not sure anyone does, and so perhaps FFA is inevitable.
I want to reiterate that I do not know anyone here personally and I do not know the situations 100% completely. There are 2 sides to every story and then the truth. If I misspoke about a situation, please continue to fill me in, as again I find the political intricacies quite fascinating. If some grammar/spelling is messed up, I apologize for that, but I'm not an English major =P

Raises some great points. I liked the part about the rotation.

[Raev]

Raises some great points. I liked the part about the rotation.

Betting 4:1 that you didn't actually read that

[Fael]

I read it.

[radditsu]

I remember how proud you were to get that cloak because it would increase sale value of your account.
Always admired that.

Never sold anything. the loginserver stuff is the same as my peq main. My sk alt is the same as my shaman on peq.

Plus i only put hundreds upon hundreds of hours raiding. I deserved that fucker. It burned my ass out. Its not like i wasted a trak tooth. I was playing sloans army for VP.

[Cecily]

Of course you earned it. You were a damn good shaman to raid with and don't let Hulk Hogan tell you any different.

[zanderklocke]

Never sold anything. the loginserver stuff is the same as my peq main. My sk alt is the same as my shaman on peq.

Plus i only put hundreds upon hundreds of hours raiding. I deserved that fucker. It burned my ass out. Its not like i wasted a trak tooth. I was playing sloans army for VP.

I have a cloak of piety from The A-Team as my one big item from raiding in the last year, and I guarantee I have not put in hundreds of hours of raiding.

[Archalen]

Shhhhh don't bring up his looks. Last time his rl photo was linked he disappeared for months.

I just, uh, meant he has a really good radio voice.

[Jfertal]

I have a cloak of piety from The A-Team as my one big item from raiding in the last year, and I guarantee I have not put in hundreds of hours of raiding.

The cloak he recieved 3 years ago was a lot more rewarding then the rotated A team trakanon.

[Cecily]

I can vouch for that. Back then, getting a kill over TMO was a big deal. Didn't happen often, but god it felt good.

[Tiggles]

I can vouch for that. Back then, getting a kill over TMO was a big deal. Didn't happen often, but god it felt good.

I used to feel that way when TMO was new and we would fight for Trakanon with IB.

I haven't had that feeling in years.....


I wonder if my App to A-Team would be accepted.

[zanderklocke]

I wonder if my App to A-Team would be accepted.

Always welcome to apply.

[NizmerThafen]

The box has changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost. For none now play who remember it. It began with the forging of the great Pixels. Three were given to the casual scum, immortal, wisest and fairest of all beings. Seven to the neckbeards, great campers and poopsockers of rare spawns. And nine, nine Pixels were gifted to the hardcore raiders, who above all else desired loots. For within these pixels was bound the strength and will to dominate server content.

But they were all of them deceived, for an agreement was made. In the land of Forumquest, in the fires RNF, the players and staff forged in secret a master rotation to control all others, and into this agreement, they poured their fairness, their justice, and their will to regulate all raiding. One rotation to rule them all.

Meanwhile, one by one the free guilds of P99 fell to the power of TMO. But there were some who resisted. A last alliance of casuals and neckbeards marched against the armies of TMO and on the threads of RNF, they fought for the freedom of P99. Victory was near but the power of the Pixel could not be undone. It was in this moment when all hope had faded that Rogean, Lord of the Box, took up his banhammer... Zeelot, the enemy of the casuals of P99 was defeated.

The Pixels passed to Zagum, who had this one chance to obstruct any agreement forever. But the hardcores were easily convinced. And the Pixels have a will of their own. They betrayed old TMO to its death. And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend, legend became myth, and for twelve and a half months, the Pixels passed out of all knowledge until, when chance came, they ensnared a new bearer. The Pixels came to the creature Chest who took them deep into the basement of his mother's house and there it consumed him. The Pixels brought to Chest unnatural long playtimes. For five months, they poisoned his life. And in the gloom of Chest's bedroom, they waited.

Darkness crept back into the forums. Rumor grew of a shadow in the rotation, whimpers of unfairness and the Pixels perceived their time had now come. They abandoned the rotation. But something happened the Pixels did not intend. They were picked up by the most unlikely creatures imaginable: casual scum, Taken, BDA, and Divinity. For the times will soon come when Casuals will shape the fortunes of us all...

The biggest issue is that TMO consists primarily of unemployed neckbeards which gives them "hardcore raider" status some how. So-called "casuals" have lives outside of EQ, while TMO (and their ilk) do not, so I can certainly understand how pixel lust is so important to them: it IS their lives.

[sanforce]

The biggest issue is that TMO consists primarily of unemployed neckbeards which gives them "hardcore raider" status some how. So-called "casuals" have lives outside of EQ, while TMO (and their ilk) do not, so I can certainly understand how pixel lust is so important to them: it IS their lives.

No, we're employed, we just get to play EQ at work. Hardcore!

[Ravager]

No, we're employed, we just get to play EQ at work. Hardcore!

No wonder my orders are always wrong.

[kaev]

No wonder my orders are always wrong.

No shit. Mystery resolved.

[Heebo]

QF comes back - boom 40 page thread. Pras rnf jesus

[Tiggles]

The biggest issue is that TMO consists primarily of unemployed neckbeards which gives them "hardcore raider" status some how. So-called "casuals" have lives outside of EQ, while TMO (and their ilk) do not, so I can certainly understand how pixel lust is so important to them: it IS their lives.

It's actually the opposite we have a large amount of people who work office jobs and/or telecommute so they can log in at work during batphones.

Don't get me wrong we also have a large amount of Junkies and unemployed basement dwellers.

TMO is the only place where you can watcher a Banker, A copyright Lawyer and a Heroin Addict all have a friendly conversation. It's truly a fantastic thing.

[Blaza]

It's actually the opposite we have a large amount of people who work office jobs and/or telecommute so they can log in at work during batphones.

Don't get me wrong we also have a large amount of Junkies and unemployed basement dwellers.

TMO is the only place where you can watcher a Banker, A copyright Lawyer and a Heroin Addict all have a friendly conversation. It's truly a fantastic thing.

A combination rarely seen outside of a drug dealer's house.

[Tiggles]

A combination rarely seen outside of a drug dealer's house.

Seeing the amount of level 60's and tracking hours some of my guildmates have I don't consider EQ anything other than "The drug dealers house" these Dragons are little clear plastic baggies of joy for these men.

[Blaza]

Seeing the amount of level 60's and tracking hours some of my guildmates have I don't consider EQ anything other than "The drug dealers house" these Dragons are little clear plastic baggies of joy for these men.

This would be the perfect spot to put in the "Heroin Hero' bit from South Park with Phara Dar photo-shopped in......

[Cecily]

Chasing the dragon? Yeah.

[Formshifter]

Seeing the amount of level 60's and tracking hours some of my guildmates have I don't consider EQ anything other than "The drug dealers house" these Dragons are little clear plastic baggies of joy for these men.

Says the guy who was so immersed before his ban that he literally looted man titties from raid mobs

[Barnes]

If this amount of discussion went into making the REAL world a better place, John Lennon would be smiling down at us from the heavens.

[Formshifter]

John Lennon would be smiling down at us from the heavens.

Hes smiling because no one believes that he beat the shit out of his first wife

[bktroost]

I'm just excited to be a part of something worth 84 pages of RnFs. I can die having lived a fulfilled life.

[Tasslehofp99]

Chasing the dragon? Yeah.

lol'd

[Danyelle]

EC confirms

http://i.imgur.com/cEai3Gr.jpg

[Estolcles]

EC confirms

http://i.imgur.com/cEai3Gr.jpg

Heh.

[fuark]

EC confirms

http://i.imgur.com/cEai3Gr.jpg

Stopped reading at Luclin models

[kingdish2]

I heard BDA couldnt handle real competition in class C so they decided to tell the rest of the server what they can or can't do like they are the GM's...

[Pokesan]

I doubt staff would have approved the class system if they knew BDA and Taken would end up smurfing as class R guilds while exerting class C levels of effort.

[bktroost]

I doubt staff would have approved the class system if they knew BDA and Taken would end up smurfing as class R guilds while exerting class C levels of effort.

Nah, the GMs don't want to force anyone into any play styles.

[Danyelle]

Stopped reading at Luclin models

But.. all words are before the Luclin models! Lol

[NizmerThafen]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n9_OrNmhqtc/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAABQ/EDTpcEwJ6yU/photo.jpg

Found a photo of a poopsocker celebrating a pixel win. Needless to say, the socks were over flowing.

[Reguiy]

What ever happened to Whokilledit.com?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Nah, the GMs don't want to force anyone into any play styles.

Except for the part where I'm COTHing an FTEr into VS room like i'm fucking retarded and don't know where he spawns.

[Man0warr]

Blame the jav autospammers for that.

[Susvain2]

Seeing the amount of level 60's and tracking hours some of my guildmates have I don't consider EQ anything other than "The drug dealers house" these Dragons are little clear plastic baggies of joy for these men.

http://i.imgur.com/jrU20MS.png

[MaksimMazor]

http://i.imgur.com/jrU20MS.png

Almost got him!

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Blame the jav autospammers for that.

Indeed, but then gate was suspended from use because...sirken was mad or something. i dunno.

[Swish]

I heard BDA couldnt handle real competition in class C so they decided to tell the rest of the server what they can or can't do like they are the GM's...

naw, as long as they had sought backing it was always going to be bad news for the rest of Class R.

c'est la vie pals

[Gimp]

Hahahaha that pic is great

[ChicomLover]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n9_OrNmhqtc/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAABQ/EDTpcEwJ6yU/photo.jpg

Found a photo of a poopsocker celebrating a pixel win. Needless to say, the socks were over flowing.

Lol'd hard.

[botrainer]

Id much rather if no Rotation, then do away with class R / C make it all FFA so BDA / taken can go into VP and not bully around other guilds who dont have the numbers (or in some cases the ability to box "their GFs toon") to compete. i mean seriously Taken, Day of the super bowl 80 socking Trakanon? Your ready for VP.

[Swish]

Id much rather if no Rotation, then do away with class R / C make it all FFA so BDA / taken can go into VP and not bully around other guilds who dont have the numbers (or in some cases the ability to box "their GFs toon") to compete. i mean seriously Taken, Day of the super bowl 80 socking Trakanon? Your ready for VP.

I'll drink to that.

[Tasslehofp99]

Id much rather if no Rotation, then do away with class R / C make it all FFA so BDA / taken can go into VP and not bully around other guilds who dont have the numbers (or in some cases the ability to box "their GFs toon") to compete. i mean seriously Taken, Day of the super bowl 80 socking Trakanon? Your ready for VP.

BDA/Taken both been ready for VP/class C for months now. They make up excuses and lie about how many teeth they have as a cop out. Both Taken/BDA have more players than IB or TMO; they probably have atleast 30 VP keys each too which is more than enough to compete for druushk/xygoz/silverwing/PD. If they put in the effort they did at FFA mobs, they could compete in class C.


GM's need to do something about this; like maybe implement time/success criteria which would automatically move guilds to class C if they were met.

[kaev]

BDA/Taken both been ready for VP/class C for months now. They make up excuses and lie about how many teeth they have as a cop out. Both Taken/BDA have more players than IB or TMO; they probably have atleast 30 VP keys each too which is more than enough to compete for druushk/xygoz/silverwing/PD. If they put in the effort they did at FFA mobs, they could compete in class C.


GM's need to do something about this; like maybe implement time/success criteria which would automatically move guilds to class C if they were met.

You need a new song bro. Singing the same old lies over and over like that makes 'em mighty tired and unproductive, they need some time off to recuperate.

[Tasslehofp99]

You need a new song bro. Singing the same old lies over and over like that makes 'em mighty tired and unproductive, they need some time off to recuperate.

It's worked before ;)

[ClownGuild]

You need a new song bro. Singing the same old lies over and over like that makes 'em mighty tired and unproductive, they need some time off to recuperate.

What lies ? BDA had enough to clear VP during suspensions. They have killed a Trak since then and by their own guild thread got 4 teeth from it ? You only need 25 people to log in for the Dragons he named if you get the FTE and pull.

[Tasslehofp99]

What lies ? BDA had enough to clear VP during suspensions. They have killed a Trak since then and by their own guild thread got 4 teeth from it ? You only need 25 people to log in for the Dragons he named if you get the FTE and pull.

This.

I've seen BDA kill all the VP dragons, and Taken has to probably have a similar amount of keys. They are the ones telling the lies, BDA/Taken don't deserve to be in class R. They are breaking the system.

[botrainer]

The MAJOR Problem I have with current raid rules is there was NEVER a force up for guilds who are able to compete, and DO compete for FFA mobs was a way for a force up from R to FFA (UN-classed) or to class C. I wouldnt mind this

If your guild kills X amount of Trakanon's? Or gods in general, your forced out of Class R (un-classed allowing them for FFA mobs ONLY, until they kill VP or class C mob) to allow the growth of smaller healthier guilds to catch up. Thats the major flaw when this was all put in place, NOTHING forces a class R guild who can, does and will compete with Class C guilds to play with them full time. Ideally, when these raid rules were put in place it basically ment the server will only have 5 guilds...TMO, IB class C. and 3 class R guilds, BDA(Should be class C) Taken(Should be class C) and 1 other guild due to lock out rules will leave 1 in every 3 R kills uncontested...there MIGHT be room for a 6th to compete with that 3rd guild (which most agree its divinity as the 5th) but if the 7 other smaller guilds wanna do 4 or 5 way splits on 1 of every 3 class R mobs it only hurts Divinity / bda / Taken ever so slightly.

[Ravager]

This.

I've seen BDA kill all the VP dragons, and Taken has to probably have a similar amount of keys. They are the ones telling the lies, BDA/Taken don't deserve to be in class R. They are breaking the system.

You should start a guild and recruit all of the VP keyed BDA and Taken and lead them to glory if you believe in them so much. But that's not your style, you'd rather hang on the nuts of others and talk shit to their perceived opponents to try to win their approval.

[Tasslehofp99]

You should start a guild and recruit all of the VP keyed BDA and Taken and lead them to glory if you believe in them so much. But that's not your style, you'd rather hang on the nuts of others and talk shit to their perceived opponents to try to win their approval.

I don't give a shit about approval. I just know that FE had less keys/players than BDA/taken do when we broke into VP.

BDA/Taken are simply gaming the system, that's all there is to it.

[Ravager]

I don't give a shit about approval.

That's good. Everyone knows what a tool you are now anyway.

[Man0warr]

BDA/Taken are simply gaming the system, that's all there is to it.

The system doesn't force guilds to move into another tier, so how is it being gamed?

[ClownGuild]

It's funny watching BDA people type in this thread. Their thinly hidden fear of losing to competition is laced in every word they type.

[captnamazing]

It's funny watching BDA people type in this thread. Their thinly hidden fear of losing to competition is laced in every word they type.

thinly hidden fear of being guild kicked cause you were talking out of line

[Swish]

how is {the system} being gamed?

Have VP keys, won't use VP keys. Stop pretending that's nothing to do with it.

Time Class R had some kind of graduation system. Don't get why you wouldn't want the chance at Hoshkar and pals - see some of that end game.

Why hold yourselves back? Certainly got the numbers.

I know, I know... you want to raid, you don't really want to compete at the top end.

[Tasslehofp99]

The system doesn't force guilds to move into another tier, so how is it being gamed?

Right, but the rotation was CREATED to help get smaller/less hardcore guilds some shots at loot. Now that BDA/Taken have dismantled the rotation/acquired plenty of gear, they should move up.

The fact that they haven't further proves my point that they are taking advantage of a system they fought so hard to have implemented "to help out the smaller guys."


Was all a farce from the start.

[botrainer]

[Sat Apr 12 13:34:24 2014] Chopped tells the guild, 'i didn't spear head this class R shit to manipulate the system, we're doing it because it's right'


Chopped is Chest....This is directly from the man himself. Enjoy.

[Detoxx]

I don't give a shit about approval. I just know that FE had less keys/players than BDA/taken do when we broke into VP.

BDA/Taken are simply gaming the system, that's all there is to it.

FE, the only guild to truly get a dragon in VP from TMO. Pras

[Cecily]

That might have been actually true at one point, but now he's tired of angry men who believe in things.

[Pokesan]

Class C just wants to hatefuck Chest I think

I'm all for it

[Raev]

The system doesn't force guilds to move into another tier, so how is it being gamed?

If you think of Class R as a training ground for Class C, then BDA's demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics make perfect sense . . . but BDA's complete unwillingness to go C does not.

If you think of Class R as a haven for barely competent guilds, then BDA's desire to stay in the kiddie pool makes perfect sense . . . but not their demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics.

If you don't see the hypocrisy there, I'm not sure what to tell you. And please don't bitch about your lack of keys when you never attempt FFA Trakanon.

[ctre]

1: To fix all pixel issue coders just implement a guild raid management routine. Problem solved, no more c and r class. But they do not have access to smart enough coders.

Sooo. We are stuck with what we have now, the rotation.

2: The rotation ::
It all boils down to a perception. The idea that a large guild can say the rotation is broken is not smart.
All small and some large guilds will form what I like to call the guild alliance. Perpetually hanging the guild that left the rotation out to dry, (Sorry Chest).

Give them time and they will come crawling back due to lack of pixels. Or will the likes of TMO give them sympathy if they try the class c path, I can only speculate.

[Red_Psyphon]

tldr

[Dizey]

So what you're saying is, all of these small guilds that were in the rotation will alliance up and kill the bosses?

Which would make those gateway bosses trivial?

Which was what was being ask of them in the first place instead of bloating and exploiting the R rotation?

hmmm.

[Man0warr]

If you think of Class R as a training ground for Class C, then BDA's demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics make perfect sense . . . but BDA's complete unwillingness to go C does not.

If you think of Class R as a haven for barely competent guilds, then BDA's desire to stay in the kiddie pool makes perfect sense . . . but not their demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics.

If you don't see the hypocrisy there, I'm not sure what to tell you. And please don't bitch about your lack of keys when you never attempt FFA Trakanon.

I don't view the Class system as a measure of how competent you are as a guild, or as a training ground for progression. Simply a segregation of play styles.

[ArumTP]

If you think of Class R as a training ground for Class C, then BDA's demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics make perfect sense . . . but BDA's complete unwillingness to go C does not.

If you think of Class R as a haven for barely competent guilds, then BDA's desire to stay in the kiddie pool makes perfect sense . . . but not their demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics.

If you don't see the hypocrisy there, I'm not sure what to tell you. And please don't bitch about your lack of keys when you never attempt FFA Trakanon.


SO MUCH THIS!!!!

[rictus204]

If you think of Class R as a training ground for Class C, then BDA's demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics make perfect sense . . . but BDA's complete unwillingness to go C does not.

If you think of Class R as a haven for barely competent guilds, then BDA's desire to stay in the kiddie pool makes perfect sense . . . but not their demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics.

If you don't see the hypocrisy there, I'm not sure what to tell you. And please don't bitch about your lack of keys when you never attempt FFA Trakanon.

http://i.imgur.com/u5zkLhf.gif

[Tiggles]

If you think of Class R as a training ground for Class C, then BDA's demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics make perfect sense . . . but BDA's complete unwillingness to go C does not.

If you think of Class R as a haven for barely competent guilds, then BDA's desire to stay in the kiddie pool makes perfect sense . . . but not their demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics.

If you don't see the hypocrisy there, I'm not sure what to tell you. And please don't bitch about your lack of keys when you never attempt FFA Trakanon.

Getting that warm and fuzzy feeling.

Good work A-Team maybe you do deserve to get epics after all.

[Nivar Quartz]

If you think of Class R as a training ground for Class C, then BDA's demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics make perfect sense . . . but BDA's complete unwillingness to go C does not.

If you think of Class R as a haven for barely competent guilds, then BDA's desire to stay in the kiddie pool makes perfect sense . . . but not their demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics.

If you don't see the hypocrisy there, I'm not sure what to tell you. And please don't bitch about your lack of keys when you never attempt FFA Trakanon.


I think Loraine/Lorean/Raev/Kaev/Argh/Jeremy or whatever his fake/real roommate cleric friend two boxed whatever from divinity to vd to a-team is, if that clears things up a bit.... either way whatever Shiroe says is wrong on principle.

Point is, BDA is now considered the man and should move to class " C " and re start the train wars in VP I assume.

BDA Officially reascends class all together, kill or be killed

Hate - Fear - Sky - VP should be turned red until Velious, let a new kinda drama into ur no GM support zones this game is funner that way.

Long Live Shinko the hero of Norrath

[Tasslehofp99]

I think Loraine/Lorean/Raev/Kaev/Argh/Jeremy or whatever his fake/real roommate cleric friend two boxed whatever from divinity to vd to a-team is, if that clears things up a bit.... either way whatever Shiroe says is wrong on principle.

Point is, BDA is now considered the man and should move to class " C " and re start the train wars in VP I assume.

BDA Officially reascends class all together, kill or be killed

Hate - Fear - Sky - VP should be turned red until Velious, let a new kinda drama into ur no GM support zones this game is funner that way.

Long Live Shinko the hero of Norrath

VP hasn't been non-CSR for like a year now. WTF are you talkin bout ?

[Nivar Quartz]

VP hasn't been non-CSR for like a year now. WTF are you talkin bout ?

Change it back then, don't get all whiny now, you have been begging for this, well not you being a forum warrior and all. I excitedly await ur quick and not so clever reply, i'll check back on Wednesday 2/11 maybe.

[Tasslehofp99]

Change it back then, don't get all whiny now, you have been begging for this, well not you being a forum warrior and all. I excitedly await ur quick and not so clever reply, i'll check back on Wednesday 2/11 maybe.

Why would we go back to the stoneage and bring back training? lol VP way better since that shits been removed.


I'll excitedly wait for BDA/Taken to move into class C where they belong. Maybe if one of those guilds move up into Class C, rumble repops will start happening again.

[ctre]

So what you're saying is, all of these small guilds that were in the rotation will alliance up and kill the bosses?

Which would make those gateway bosses trivial?

Which was what was being ask of them in the first place instead of bloating and exploiting the R rotation?

hmmm.

That is and has been already happening for quite some time. But you already knew that.

[Detoxx]

Please allow training in VP again. Was the funnest thing in this game

[wycca]

If you think of Class R as a training ground for Class C, then BDA's demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics make perfect sense . . . but BDA's complete unwillingness to go C does not.

If you think of Class R as a haven for barely competent guilds, then BDA's desire to stay in the kiddie pool makes perfect sense . . . but not their demands that everyone kill Gorenaire at 3AM in 1 hour to get epics.

If you don't see the hypocrisy there, I'm not sure what to tell you. And please don't bitch about your lack of keys when you never attempt FFA Trakanon.


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/3600373_o.gif

[Anichek]

...Gorenaire at 3AM...

...Gorenaire at 3AM ...



Apparently I was unaware that all Gorenaires spawn at 3am in all time zones, defying the laws of space and time as we know it.

[Byel]

I think everyone would care alot less if you would just admit you know your not good enough for contested class C and would rather neck beard out the casuals rather then actually compete.

[ClownGuild]

I think everyone would care alot less if you would just admit you know your not good enough for contested class C and would rather neck beard out the casuals rather then actually compete.

BDA's new recruitment slogan..

"Neckbearding out the casuals to avoid competition for maximum loot."

[Anichek]

I think everyone would care alot less if you would just admit you know your not good enough for contested class C and would rather neck beard out the casuals rather then actually compete.

I think we've acknowledged that on multiple occasions. I'll acknowledge it now - and won't try to spin/sugar coat it either.

IB's fucking razor sharp, RAZOR sharp. They are humming on all cylinders and have a vast amount of experience contesting content at the highest level of "competition"....which breeds success.

TMO still has more active and available characters for raid content than BDA does, and the more important part to that is they have more people behind those keyboards who are able to/willing to jump in online and race for a mob at whatever time is necessary to be successful.

Those aren't excuses for BDA, they are the reality.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Once again, Class C is about unemployed neckbeard FTE lawyer-questing, holding onto 3-month-old FRAPS to use against the other guild when they get something on you, sending out petitions before the mob even dies, planting spies/moles in other guilds for full immersion, and posting real-life pics on public boards in order to drive away any actual competition. Class R guilds want nothing to do with that meta-game the true neckbeards have created. Don't deny it, because there's about 4-5 years of post history on these boards to support it, along with a Rogean-forced raid scene revamp to free the Class R guilds from being subjected to it.

Who the fuck are you to decide to drag a guild who wants no part of that shitfest kicking and screaming into it, voluntarily.

What we are asking of the other guilds (to log in to kill their rotated mobs in a timely fashion, or to ally up as a consistent alliance to do so, or to only be in the rotation for mobs they can actually consistently kill) is nowhere near the above level of douchebaggery described above, so don't even try to compare the two in order to further your agenda of trying to cripple a guild that cost you some pixels over a year ago by forcing them to enter your shithole idea of how the game should be played. It's blatantly obvious what your agenda is here.

And please, stop insulting everyone's intelligence by continuing to call what you do "competition." You can't sit there and goad BDA by stating that they should come Class C if they really want to "compete" when we can just as easily ask the Class C guilds why they haven't moved over completely to the PVP server if they get such hard erections over the premise of "competition". If we're supposedly slumming it up in Class R, you're definitely fucking slumming it up on a PVE server, right?

So if you're "competing" to be the bigger alleged hypocrites, you win, bros. You win.

[Aadill]

have more people behind those keyboards who are able to/willing to jump in online and race for a mob at whatever time is necessary to be successful.

Those aren't excuses for BDA, they are the reality.

Then why add so many excessive rules to break that reality behind Class R?

If the issue is that multiple guilds are exploiting multiple slots on the rotation then do one of two things (or both I'm not a cop or your mom):

1) Lock out the allied guilds that participate in a kill for an appropriate timeframe
2) Force the allied guilds to split the loot next time the same way so the net gain is that neither guild gets more than their share of loot, in essence creating an actual alliance of guilds that can then choose to participate with each other and have the headaches that come with it.


I mean seriously... rules upon rules only necessitates the need for more rules so the first ones continue to make sense. You don't need tiers and all this other shit to make it work.

[Gimp]

I think we've acknowledged that on multiple occasions. I'll acknowledge it now - and won't try to spin/sugar coat it either.

IB's fucking razor sharp, RAZOR sharp. They are humming on all cylinders and have a vast amount of experience contesting content at the highest level of "competition"....which breeds success.

TMO still has more active and available characters for raid content than BDA does, and the more important part to that is they have more people behind those keyboards who are able to/willing to jump in online and race for a mob at whatever time is necessary to be successful.

Those aren't excuses for BDA, they are the reality.

This guy gets it.

[Gimp]

Once again, Class C is about unemployed neckbeard FTE lawyer-questing, holding onto 3-month-old FRAPS to use against the other guild when they get something on you, sending out petitions before the mob even dies, planting spies/moles in other guilds for full immersion, and posting real-life pics on public boards in order to drive away any actual competition. Class R guilds want nothing to do with that meta-game the true neckbeards have created. Don't deny it, because there's about 4-5 years of post history on these boards to support it, along with a Rogean-forced raid scene revamp to free the Class R guilds from being subjected to it.

Who the fuck are you to decide to drag a guild who wants no part of that shitfest kicking and screaming into it, voluntarily.

What we are asking of the other guilds (to log in to kill their rotated mobs in a timely fashion, or to ally up as a consistent alliance to do so, or to only be in the rotation for mobs they can actually consistently kill) is nowhere near the above level of douchebaggery described above, so don't even try to compare the two in order to further your agenda of trying to cripple a guild that cost you some pixels over a year ago by forcing them to enter your shithole idea of how the game should be played. It's blatantly obvious what your agenda is here.

And please, stop insulting everyone's intelligence by continuing to call what you do "competition." You can't sit there and goad BDA by stating that they should come Class C if they really want to "compete" when we can just as easily ask the Class C guilds why they haven't moved over completely to the PVP server if they get such hard erections over the premise of "competition". If we're supposedly slumming it up in Class R, you're definitely fucking slumming it up on a PVE server, right?

So if you're "competing" to be the bigger alleged hypocrites, you win, bros. You win.

This guy doesn't get it and is a whiny bitch.

[Anichek]

Then why add so many excessive rules to break that reality behind Class R?

If the issue is that multiple guilds are exploiting multiple slots on the rotation then do one of two things (or both I'm not a cop or your mom):

1) Lock out the allied guilds that participate in a kill for an appropriate timeframe
2) Force the allied guilds to split the loot next time the same way so the net gain is that neither guild gets more than their share of loot, in essence creating an actual alliance of guilds that can then choose to participate with each other and have the headaches that come with it.


I mean seriously... rules upon rules only necessitates the need for more rules so the first ones continue to make sense. You don't need tiers and all this other shit to make it work.

There were already rules upon rules upon rules. The Rotation pre-dismantling wasn't exactly made on a 1 line document.

It's not as simple as you reduce it down to.

We can't just MAKE anyone do anything - that's why there were lengthy discussions and talks. Unfortunately, for the time being, the talks are on hold - but allowing everyone some time to step back and really not worry about the terms of a "peace treaty" will hopefully bring some new ideas and some introspective/self-assessment by the guilds in Class R...BDA included. When the time is right, I'm sure we'll all be back at the table trying to hammer out a new agreement - if that's what everyone wants at that time.

There's about a million more things, but this isn't the forum for it....I've had many talks with individuals from many of the Class R guilds - and still am open and talking to them today.

Turning Class R into a little competitive environment doesn't mean that any one guild is shitting on another - the lockouts prevent total domination of any one guild.

[Tuljin]

I'll excitedly wait for BDA/Taken to move into class C where they belong. Maybe if one of those guilds move up into Class C, rumble repops will start happening again.

Going to C would actually require level 60 toons - a milestone many of the players in these guilds are objectively incapable of reaching, and it would also require actual in-game effort instead of forumquesting.

"C-Lite" is such an incredibly stupid "playstyle" - - just when everybody thought the neckbeards couldn't outdo themselves

[Cecily]

Again, you're turning Class R into an environment similar to pre-raid rules P99. TMO has simply been replaced by 3 entities, which is, as Catholicism has taught us, a perfectly acceptable way to manifest as an imaginary deity in a given universe.

[Aadill]

Turning Class R into a little competitive environment doesn't mean that any one guild is shitting on another - the lockouts prevent total domination of any one guild.

But if the point of Class R is for restricted, rotated content, creating a competitive environment within the class means all you've done is create a protected haven for yourselves and put out other guilds in the process. This is why a lot of people think some of the Class R guilds should go C: they do not participate in FFA which is the "competitive environment" and want to reorganize the Class R raid schedule in the favor of a few guilds who can take time to sit AFK outside of fear portals and mobilize immediately upon spawn. This is the exact same "competitive environment" that happens in Class C and FFA. In short, "competing" but not with those who want to "compete."

[Aadill]

FFA in Class C

FFA in FFA

FFA in Class R

[Anichek]

But if the point of Class R is for restricted, rotated content, creating a competitive environment within the class means all you've done is create a protected haven for yourselves and put out other guilds in the process. This is why a lot of people think some of the Class R guilds should go C: they do not participate in FFA which is the "competitive environment" and want to reorganize the Class R raid schedule in the favor of a few guilds who can take time to sit AFK outside of fear portals and mobilize immediately upon spawn. This is the exact same "competitive environment" that happens in Class C and FFA. In short, "competing" but not with those who want to "compete."

The point of Class R was restricted ability to engage mobs. Nothing in the GM/Dev statements at the formation of the classes included a Rotation. The Rotation was player made, and to much extent, player enforced.

The GM's were involved in the Rotation to make sure that those IN the Rotation weren't going to exclude those outside it, if they wanted to join.

[YendorLootmonkey]

This guy doesn't get it and is a whiny bitch.

Now that we've heard a response from a 3rd grader, we can actually discuss the hypocrisy of Class C staying PVE while throwing stones at Class R for tightening the reins on how the rotation was being gamed by smaller guilds.

[Anichek]

Again, you're turning Class R into an environment similar to pre-raid rules P99. TMO has simply been replaced by 3 entities, which is, as Catholicism has taught us, a perfectly acceptable way to manifest as an imaginary deity in a given universe.

BDA's not solely responsible for this happening, but we're once again taking the brunt of public opinion on it. It's convenient to pin it on BDA, because this time we wanted the change. I think the two sides were closer to an agreement that either side may have been willing to admit, too - but anyone who's privy to the Class R talks on any subjects in the past knows that typically, they take FOREVER...and we didn't think it was reasonable to milk things out over a month or two. For that, certainly BDA and the guilds that were on our side in the conversation have responsibility.

Didn't see the two previous occasions where change was called for, and led by guilds other than BDA, create a storm in public forums (and BDA played mediator to hold things together.)

At least RnF has a pulse again.....time for me to dip out and let the RnF Pro's get back to being Pro while I watch from the RnF sidelines.

[wycca]

Unfortunately, for the time being, the talks are on hold - but allowing everyone some time to step back and really not worry about the terms of a "peace treaty" will hopefully bring some new ideas and some introspective/self-assessment by the guilds in Class R...BDA included. When the time is right, I'm sure we'll all be back at the table trying to hammer out a new agreement - if that's what everyone wants at that time.


Don't try to sugar coat it and do some ex-post-facto revisionism. You handed down an ultumatum to have a special walled garden created that preserved the juiciest raid mobs such that you wouldn't face competition for it.

Then when all of the guilds that wouldn't benefit massively from the ultumatum all said "no".....YOU, as well as Divinity & Taken, announced you were going FFA.

"Unfortunately", "for the time being", "the talks are on hold", "allowing everyone to step back", "when the time is right" - /barf. Don't try to sugar coat the shit you pulled, you're certainly not fooling anyone who actually knows what went down. That's all a bunch of bullshit and attempting to whitewash history.

There was no, let's put talks on hold, let's take a break, etc that was agreed on by everyone involved. You blew it up after your demands were not met and Divinity/Taken went along like eager school kids. This was about pixels and bullying, nothing more.

http://i.imgur.com/kSJYqV4.jpg

[YendorLootmonkey]

Again, you're turning Class R into an environment similar to pre-raid rules P99. TMO has simply been replaced by 3 entities, which is, as Catholicism has taught us, a perfectly acceptable way to manifest as an imaginary deity in a given universe.

Cecily. Please explain to me how giving a guild (or alliance of guilds if needed) an uncontested shot at a raid mob up in their rotation for one hour is anything like pre-raid rules P99 when shit was being engaged and killed within 5 mins of spawn. Eagerly awaiting your response.

[Tuljin]

Class C - Level 60 VP keyed zerg poopsock

Class R - Non-level 60 non-VP keyed zerg poopsock

After thousands of man hours of nerd negotiation and Google doc jockeying, this is what it has come down to

GG nerds /slowclap - you don't need a JD in P99 lawyerquesting to take whine, kick n' scream, then pick up your ball and go home

[Aadill]

Cecily. Please explain to me how giving a guild (or alliance of guilds if needed) an uncontested shot at a raid mob up in their rotation for one hour is anything like pre-raid rules P99 when shit was being engaged and killed within 5 mins of spawn. Eagerly awaiting your response.

An hour is relatively acceptable. Having a tiered system based on the hardest mob per tier to lock guilds out so they can't have a shot at the mob is not.

[Aadill]

Class C - Level 60 VP keyed zerg poopsock

Class R - Non-level 60 non-VP keyed zerg poopsock

After thousands of man hours of nerd negotiation and Google doc jockeying, this is what it has come down to

GG nerds /slowclap - you don't need a JD in P99 lawyerquesting to take whine, kick n' scream, then pick up your ball and go home

EFF EFF AYYYYYYY

[Tuljin]

EFF EFF AYYYYYYY

NO VAIR EE INTS AND MOAR RUHM BLZ

ftfy :-)

[YendorLootmonkey]

An hour is relatively acceptable. Having a tiered system based on the hardest mob per tier to lock guilds out so they can't have a shot at the mob is not.

I've said before the tier system could use some tweaking (my personal opinion alone.)

There are many examples of progression-based tiered rotation systems back on Live to keep guilds of differing capability separated and spread out.

However, it doesn't make sense in a progression model to achieve the next tier of raiding by killing the easiest mob in the tier and then you can't kill the other 2-3 mobs in the tier, therefore demonstrating you aren't capable of participating meaningfully in raiding in that tier. Unless I'm missing something.

You kill the hardest mob in the tier to prove you can kill the other mobs in the tier. Progressive tiered rotations were classic and kept guilds who couldn't kill the mobs from padding the rotation and artificially jacking up demand in a limited supply environment.

Why is this such a hard pill to swallow?

[Argh]

Theres only one way to settle a dispute with so many parties:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/WWFRoyalRumbleSNES.png

[Tuljin]

Because having Gore as the tier 2 mob and basing the lockouts on loot tables rather than mob difficulty its a thinly-veiled attempt by people of questionable levels of intelligence at manipulating the raid class system for their own benefit

Good answer?

[Tuljin]

Rofl argh

[Anichek]

An hour is relatively acceptable. Having a tiered system based on the hardest mob per tier to lock guilds out so they can't have a shot at the mob is not.

This went away - the entry mobs weren't the hardest mobs after the first proposal of tiers. They were likely the middle-difficulty mobs based on the groupings. Difficulty was loosely based on the entire encounter (deployment, access to engage, raid mob itself), not just the mob.

[Argh]

This went away - the entry mobs weren't the hardest mobs after the first proposal of tiers. They were likely the middle-difficulty mobs based on the groupings. Difficulty was loosely based on the entire encounter (deployment, access to engage, raid mob itself), not just the mob.

You picked the only mobs that had guilds that still hadn't done them solo yet, otherwise the proposed tier system would have done diddly-squat.

[Kimja]

Make the spawn variation for every mob 7 days and go totally FFA. Make everyone poopsock for weeks on end!

[Tuljin]

thinly-veiled

[Raev]

Once again, Class C is about unemployed neckbeard FTE lawyer-questing, holding onto 3-month-old FRAPS to use against the other guild when they get something on you, sending out petitions before the mob even dies, planting spies/moles in other guilds for full immersion, and posting real-life pics on public boards in order to drive away any actual competition.

You can't hate it that much, because you brought this playstyle to Class R when you broke the rotation.

Apparently I was unaware that all Gorenaires spawn at 3am in all time zones, defying the laws of space and time as we know it.

See to you this is sarcasm, but if you did the math you'd realize it's basically correct. The A-Team has about 6 hours of prime time every weekday, and maybe 10 on weekends. That's about 30% of the 168 hours in a week. So we can kill Gorenaire somewhere between 30%-50% of the time based on schedule alone.

Let me ask you again: what is your vision for Class R? Is it C-prep? If so, we are happy to let the current FFA state continue and in 2-3 months you can move to Class C. Is it Real Casual? If so, why are you trying to make us all poopsock?

[Formshifter]

Theres only one way to settle a dispute with so many parties:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/WWFRoyalRumbleSNES.png

i bet all those gold chains + an incredibly hairy chest would cause a good deal of discomfort

[Swish]

http://i.minus.com/ibplf4JMrqELh7.gif

[Ella`Ella]

The hilarity of all of this is that BDA thinks that the community gives a shit about how they rationalize this.

It's all a matter of perception - and you've lost the war on that front. You're no better than IB or TMO now, so it's time to join the ranks.

http://tmoguild.org/phpBB3/application.php

[arsenalpow]

The hilarity of all of this is that BDA thinks that the community gives a shit about how they rationalize this.

It's all a matter of perception - and you've lost the war on that front. You're no better than IB or TMO now, so it's time to join the ranks.

http://tmoguild.org/phpBB3/application.php

I mean if we're joining anyone it's IB since they are curbstomping y'all lately. No point in joining a dead guild.

[Argh]

I mean if we're joining anyone it's IB

https://thetruthsoldier.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/breaking-news-logo.jpg?w=300&h=250&crop=1

We are now hearing reports that BDA merging with IB, you heard it here first.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

I mean if we're joining anyone it's IB since they are curbstomping y'all lately. No point in joining a dead guild.

omg i say this all the time! lolll

[Cecily]

Well if TMO didn't have a reason to hate IB, there's one.

[Nuktari]

I mean if we're joining anyone it's IB
https://thetruthsoldier.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/breaking-news-logo.jpg?w=300&h=250&crop=1

We are now hearing reports that BDA merging with IB, you heard it here first.

http://media0.giphy.com/media/GBDvJU7Sxp0nC/200.gif

http://media1.giphy.com/media/13f4ZqvE7Asd7q/200.gif

http://media2.giphy.com/media/cFq8iLg0He0SI/200.gif

Argh slidin' in like true media!

[YendorLootmonkey]

The hilarity of all of this is that BDA thinks that the community gives a shit about how they rationalize this.

It's all a matter of perception - and you've lost the war on that front. You're no better than IB or TMO now, so it's time to join the ranks.

http://tmoguild.org/phpBB3/application.php

When is TMO moving to the PVP server to experience true competition instead of slumming it on a PVE server?

[Argh]

http://i.imgur.com/Vytm59g.gif

[arsenalpow]

http://i.imgur.com/Vytm59g.gif

tremendous
/golfclap

[Sidelle]

http://i.imgur.com/Vytm59g.gif
Lol. Nice one. :)

[shydagger3]

When is TMO moving to the PVP server to experience true competition instead of slumming it on a PVE server?

I'm the best player on red

[Swish]

tremendous
/golfclap

http://i.imgur.com/nZLFarX.gif

[Raev]

I think we need to just close RNF and declare Argh the winner.

[Ella`Ella]

TMO is being absorbed by <Idiots and Savages>

[Anichek]

I think we need to just close RNF and declare Argh the winner.

Agreed.

[Detoxx]

When is TMO moving to the PVP server to experience true competition instead of slumming it on a PVE server?

Different playstyles, naaa mean

[radditsu]

I would join tmo and leverage for a bigger slice of spoils.

[Detoxx]

I mean if we're joining anyone it's IB since they are curbstomping y'all lately. No point in joining a dead guild.

Good one there Chesty, I thought it was never about the pixels?

[Eponymous Anonymous]

TMO is being absorbed by <Idiots and Savages>

at least you guys would be easy to look up all in one convenient place... /who all idiots

[bktroost]

I think we need to just close RNF and declare Argh the winner.

Everything this man touches is gold.

[citizen1080]

Ya'll need to step outside my friends.

It's like the Special Olympics up in here. Yea you might be winning...but are you really that proud of that?

If we pooled the hours all of you have wasted JUST bitching about shit on this forum...not even counting in game hours. We could have solved world hunger, cured cancer and most importantly, had Velious released years ago.

[arsenalpow]

Good one there Chesty, I thought it was never about the pixels?

It's not, unless I were giving up my principles and going straight mercenary (class C) so wouldn't it be prudent to join the most profitable outfit available? (Pixel-wise)

[Swish]

my principles

[ClownGuild]

Kinda funny that he believes he has those. No one else does.

[Nivar Quartz]

Ya'll need to step outside my friends.

It's like the Special Olympics up in here. Yea you might be winning...but are you really that proud of that?

If we pooled the hours all of you have wasted JUST bitching about shit on this forum...not even counting in game hours. We could have solved world hunger, cured cancer and most importantly, had Velious released years ago.

Sold mucho plat also, time is money berb.


http://i.imgur.com/hIMYell.gif

[Neno]

It's like the Special Olympics up in here. Yea you might be winning...but are you really that proud of that?

I'd wager that having a life that revolves around a stagnated emulated server for a video game that came out almost 16 years ago makes you far more physically and mentally disabled than actually competing in the Special Olympics does.

[citizen1080]

I'd wager that having a life that revolves around a stagnated emulated server for a video game that came out almost 16 years ago makes you far more physically and mentally disabled than actually competing in the Special Olympics does.

Very possible lol...

As for you Nivar...that horse has been beaten to the point where he is just dust =)