Michael Brown

[Sidelle]

Holy shit... :eek: Video stills from the strong arm robbery Michael Brown is suspected of a few minutes before he was shot. (No, not jumping the gun and saying the shooting was necessarily justified yet.)

But gentle giant, my ass...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvFZ9xgIIAAgCZW.jpg:large

[Evedas]

He looked like he could fit an entire county of KFC.

[Misto]

The only reason this is news is because the Baltimore Ravens just lost a potential defensive lineman.

[Glenzig]

Looks like that guy is trying to run into his fists.

[Pokesan]

Are criminals usually executed after the fact for armed robbery?

I'm not sure what point you think you're making if not.

[Zadrian]

Grabs a dude for cigs - deserves to die. Legit

[Sidelle]

Are criminals usually executed after the fact for armed robbery?

I'm not sure what point you think you're making if not.

No, not jumping the gun and saying the shooting was necessarily justified yet.

The point is, he was portrayed as Mr. Innocent just minding his own business...

[phacemeltar]

a few minutes before he was shot

just want to point out that the officer most likely did not have time to review this footage to make an ID before the shooting occurred, so i would deem this irrelevant in regards to the case. i wonder why he was beating up that little indian guy.

[Glenzig]

The point is, he was portrayed as Mr. Innocent just minding his own business...

I think what happened from the pictures is that the guy walked up to him and was like "Hey negro, why are you trying to steal my chicken?".
And he was like, "I'm sorry, that's my bad. Hey I really like your tie! Is that real Italian silk?"
"No its a rayon blend."

"That's amazing! It really looks and feels like silk. Hey lets go get my chicken paid for."

And then they walk back to the counter.

[Sidelle]

i wonder why he was beating up that little indian guy.

He allegedly stole a couple boxes of cigars and the clerk confronted him.

http://i.imgur.com/P3kRr.gif

[Rattle Squirrell]

The looting, and pillaging that followed was pretty crazy. Not sure if that is supposed to glorify the life of the young man....

[Frieza_Prexus]

i would deem this irrelevant in regards to the case.

Character and a propensity for violence are relevant factors to be considered when reviewing a case such as this. A jury might give more or less credibility to certain testimonies in light of such a record.

[Pokesan]

ITT Sidelle dances on a dead dudes grave because he was a scary black

[Nuktari]

Judge not, your fellow man!

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

ITT Sidelle dances on a dead dudes grave because he was a scary black

Why do you have to bring race into this?

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Why do you have to bring race into this?

Shut up fatty fat fat.

[Shannacore]

"Ferguson Police Chief says Officer who shot Michael Brown did not know he was a robbery suspect at the time of the confrontation." (via the press conference being held right now)

WELP

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Shut up fatty fat fat.

http://i.imgur.com/cZsAkIi.jpg

[Rattle Squirrell]

Just as every situation. No one will truely know what happened unless they were there. Dashcam? Audio? Something solid other than his girls statement?

Im not saying there are not bad cops......but not every situation needs to be jumped on like this.

[Glenzig]

Just as every situation. No one will truely know what happened unless they were there. Dashcam? Audio? Something solid other than his girls statement?

Im not saying there are not bad cops......but not every situation needs to be jumped on like this.

Yeah I really honestly would have expected this from the incident in new England where the cop strangled the guy to death and it was all caught on tape. But, you never know I guess.

[Sidelle]

"Ferguson Police Chief says Officer who shot Michael Brown did not know he was a robbery suspect at the time of the confrontation." (via the press conference being held right now)

WELP

This isn't 100% confirmed but the word is that Michael Brown and his friend were in the road, blocking traffic and the cop was telling them to gtfo and the physical confrontation ensued.

The part I'm dying to find out, what essentially matters the most; was Brown shot repeatedly in the head and chest AFTER he surrendered. Now that would be a cold-blooded execution and obviously at that point the cop should be arrested and tried for murder.

[Hailto]

ITT Sidelle dances on a dead dudes grave because he was a scary black

Or because he was a fucking thug who we now have video evidence of strong arming some guy half his size. You're the only one who mentioned his race, shut the fuck up.

[Gaffin 7.0]

isnt first time people have been shot putting their hands up, i can link probably 5 videos off the bat with the same thing

police are taking their rights too far and use petty shitty excuses to get away with murder now days, fuck them

[Peatree]

This isn't 100% confirmed but the word is that Michael Brown and his friend were in the road, blocking traffic and the cop was telling them to gtfo and the physical confrontation ensued.

The part I'm dying to find out, what essentially matters the most; was Brown shot repeatedly in the head and chest AFTER he surrendered. Now that would be a cold-blooded execution and obviously at that point the cop should be arrested and tried for murder.

Have a co-worker in this area whose father in law is a sergeant in the force. He didn't surrender. He charged the cop.

It's my understanding that in the process of Brown being arrested ( hands on car and then moving to put cuffs on ) he started resisting, fight ensued and they fell into the cop car with Brown on top raining punches down to the cops head. Then while fighting for gun two shots went off in car, Brown ran, cop got out yelled freeze and then Brown turned around and said something like " what you gonna do, shoot me " and charged him.

If this is the real story then I can't blame the cop who was already beaten up, pumped on adrenaline, and saw the 300 pound guy who just beat on him charging him. Makes sense he fired over and over again. Doesn't make it right, but it does make sense.

My question is why did they have a single cop in the car vs. two in such a bad area? Sounds like bad policy to me.

Regardless, guy was a thug/criminal that didn't deserve to die, but no real surprise he did.

Sad really.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

isnt first time people have been shot putting their hands up, i can link probably 5 videos off the bat with the same thing

police are taking their rights too far and use petty shitty excuses to get away with murder now days, fuck them

Police culture is so shitty. Big part of the reason quality people don't become cops is that they can't imagine living in a high school football team locker room for the rest of their professional lives.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Have a co-worker in this area whose father in law is a sergeant in the force. He didn't surrender. He charged the cop.



Oh, well if a cop from that area says that's what happened, sure. Thanks for the inside scoop! lol

[Pokesan]

Or because he was a fucking thug who we now have video evidence of strong arming some guy half his size. You're the only one who mentioned his race, shut the fuck up.

This is cause to celebrate his death?

[Peatree]

Oh, well if a cop from that area says that's what happened, sure. Thanks for the inside scoop! lol

Doubt there is a video of this cop robbing a little Indian man of his swisher sweets.

[Bazia]

thank god the cops deal with these shitbags so i dont have to

thanx badge bros

[iruinedyourday]

little Indian man

[radditsu]

Cops that suck at their job and go on paid leave.

[iruinedyourday]

Cops that suck at their job and go on paid leave.

and its never charming like this guy

http://dubsism.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/rod-farva-car-ramrod.gif

[radditsu]

and its never charming like this guy

http://dubsism.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/rod-farva-car-ramrod.gif

That gif is screaming for a dickbutt adaptation.

[Sidelle]

This is cause to celebrate his death?

Please explain how anything I've posted here celebrates Michael Brown's death. I ignored your first post because it was too ridiculous to bother acknowledging but since you keep trying to go there, I just gotta ask at this point:

Wtf are you talking about?

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Please explain how anything I've posted here celebrates Michael Brown's death. I ignored your first post because it was too ridiculous to bother acknowledging but since you keep trying to go there, I just gotta ask at this point:

Wtf are you talking about?

Plenty of actual racist garbage here to pick on, I think you misread something Sidelle said lol

[Misto]

Plenty of actual racist garbage here to pick on, I think you misread something Sidelle said lol

I hope Michael Brown comes back from the dead and sits on your face.

[harnold]

booooooring, trayvon martin copycat

[MrSparkle001]

This isn't 100% confirmed but the word is that Michael Brown and his friend were in the road, blocking traffic and the cop was telling them to gtfo and the physical confrontation ensued.

The part I'm dying to find out, what essentially matters the most; was Brown shot repeatedly in the head and chest AFTER he surrendered. Now that would be a cold-blooded execution and obviously at that point the cop should be arrested and tried for murder.

It all comes down to that. It will come down to witnesses and how trustworthy they are. Do you believe what they said they saw? Or not?

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Can anyone tell me anything about this Daren Wilson fellow? I'm trying to research anything I can about him and all I've found is a member of the "ethical society of police" in the force.

[Rattle Squirrell]

It all comes down to that. It will come down to witnesses and how trustworthy they are. Do you believe what they said they saw? Or not?

The guy obviously has a rap sheet. Robs a store.....then walks in the middle of the street.

He obviously gives less than 0 fucks. I doubt he just became Mr. Lawabiding when he was told to get out of the street.

Who knows though right ?

[iruinedyourday]

The guy obviously has a rap sheet. Robs a store.....then walks in the middle of the street.

He obviously gives less than 0 fucks. I doubt he just became Mr. Lawabiding when he was told to get out of the street.

Who knows though right ?

Well wrongly accused of robbing a store - so getting wrongly accused of blocking traffic since there was none according to witnesses, would probably make any 18 year old a little pissed off.

Probably had every right to be mad at the cop.. its unfortunate that if you get mad at a cop they bust you for it, no mater who you are, let alone an 18 year old black kid.

[Gaffin 7.0]

this whole debate is retarded dude should have never been shot dead regardless if he is a thug

[radditsu]

http://grantland.com/features/ferguson-missouri-protest-michael-brown-murder-police/

I love me some grantland.

[Glenzig]

http://grantland.com/features/ferguson-missouri-protest-michael-brown-murder-police/

I love me some grantland.

The guy that wrote that is black. Can't trust it. He probably robe liquor stores as a career.

[Glenzig]

And according to Kagatob he would be "illogically biased".

[Glenzig]

The guy that wrote that is black. Can't trust it. He probably robe liquor stores as a career.

Robs liquor stores.

[iruinedyourday]

Robs liquor stores.

I liked it way better as robe

heh every time I read an article like that there is a voice in the back of my mind that says, 'pretend you are fed up with human rights and see how far you get before you can hear a voice in your head that sounds of your racist uncle saying, THIS IS SOME LIBERAL BULLSHIT!'

I made it to the 3rd paragraph before I realized it was not an article that the opposing view would be able to stomach.

[radditsu]

The guy that wrote that is black. Can't trust it. He probably robe liquor stores as a career.

He is mostly a happy go lucky dude. He is a little rough on structure sometimes. But I love the pieces he decides to do.

[Sidelle]

It all comes down to that. It will come down to witnesses and how trustworthy they are. Do you believe what they said they saw? Or not?

I honestly don't know what to believe yet. Today while watching the family's press conference someone asked the attorney/spokesman about the results of the independent second autopy and he refused to discuss it. Something about it not being the "right time"

Ultimately, the truth will come out in the forensics and maybe from some random surveillance cameras on that street. Btw, has anyone heard if the cop had a dash cam?

[Glenzig]

I liked it way better as robe

heh every time I read an article like that there is a voice in the back of my mind that says, 'pretend you are fed up with human rights and see how far you get before you can hear a voice in your head that sounds of your racist uncle saying, THIS IS SOME LIBERAL BULLSHIT!'

I made it to the 3rd paragraph before I realized it was not an article that the opposing view would be able to stomach.

Look, I'm not racist or anything. A lot of my friends are black. But I just like to judge all people that have a different skin color than I do as less perfect than me. (I've never claimed to be perfect). If I espouse factual data to the plebeians on this forum that shocks their white guilt riddled brains into a state of pure logic, then I can't be held responsible for the repercussions to my good name. I would prefer to ignore white driven hate groups like the Ku Klux Klan, or the Arian Brotherhood, and focus on what the blacks are doing to denigrate their entire race. I mean black on white crime is the only crime that actually counts in my mind. If a non black kills a black and gets acquited, don't you dare say that it was wrong or a crime for him to kill that black person. After all, no one that lynched and hung blacks in the good ol' days ever got convicted of a crime.

Good day sir!!!

[iruinedyourday]

I'm sorry but I don't know what any of that means.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

And according to Kagatob he would be "illogically biased".
Not really, it's a pretty overall fair assessment including the anecdote.

If I had to choose something to have issue with it would be the way he simply brushes past the sound of the Molotov cocktail breaking against the police barricade. As if he can't bring himself to acknowledge that the frightening force of militarized police coming down upon them was set off by the demonstration going violent. I wasn't there, I didn't experience what he experienced so I can't judge him for that. The molotov cocktail is simply a fact that I personally choose not to ignore.

Remember, the police were there due to standard procedure, it had virtually nothing to do with the neighborhood or citizens being predominantly black and everything to do with the previous riot and destruction in the town not a week prior. It happens all across the country, for example just look at college campuses after a major sporting event.
Look, I'm not racist or anything. A lot of my friends are black. But I just like to judge all people that have a different skin color than I do as less perfect than me. (I've never claimed to be perfect). If I espouse factual data to the plebeians on this forum that shocks their white guilt riddled brains into a state of pure logic, then I can't be held responsible for the repercussions to my good name. I would prefer to ignore white driven hate groups like the Ku Klux Klan, or the Arian Brotherhood, and focus on what the blacks are doing to denigrate their entire race. I mean black on white crime is the only crime that actually counts in my mind. If a non black kills a black and gets acquited, don't you dare say that it was wrong or a crime for him to kill that black person. After all, no one that lynched and hung blacks in the good ol' days ever got convicted of a crime.

Good day sir!!!

wat

[iruinedyourday]

wat

enemies can agree to be confused by glens post haha

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

I don't consider most people with differing viewpoints to be enemies, simply people who will be angry while I attempt to have them explain said viewpoints so I can come to some level of understanding with them.

I say most because fuck the religious right. Ken Ham is just as bad for this country as anyone in ISIS as far as I'm concerned.

[Ahldagor]

Grantland has better journalism than most news sites now. It's good how much a sports site has grown into a place for actual journalism.

[Glenzig]

I'm sorry but I don't know what any of that means.

Some people would assume that that would mean they had made some sort of ultra-intelligent post that only their vastly superior intellect could truly grasp the base logic of. But, really I just strung together some random contradicting generalized sentences in an attempt to emulate one of Kagatobs posts. The fact that you were utterly confused makes me think I did a fair job at it. What do you think?

[Ahldagor]

I don't consider most people with differing viewpoints to be enemies, simply people who will be angry while I attempt to have them explain said viewpoints so I can come to some level of understanding with them.

I say most because fuck the religious right. Ken Ham is just as bad for this country as anyone in ISIS as far as I'm concerned.

And you will promote so much change from your tiny apartment and iphone.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

iphone.

Implying I would ever own an Apple product is honestly the most hurtful thing that anyone has said to me in this thread. :(

[Ahldagor]

Implying I would ever own an Apple product is honestly the most hurtful thing that anyone has said to me in this thread. :(

http://media.giphy.com/media/c6YhpGxZH9hjq/giphy.gif

[iruinedyourday]

Some people would assume that that would mean they had made some sort of ultra-intelligent post that only their vastly superior intellect could truly grasp the base logic of. But, really I just strung together some random contradicting generalized sentences in an attempt to emulate one of Kagatobs posts. The fact that you were utterly confused makes me think I did a fair job at it. What do you think?

lol you got me. I was like man, I thought that guy was cool :/

[quido]

My brother is a cop in Muskegon MI (a city full of violent blacks that rivals Detroit and Flint in crime per capita) and even he fully acknowledges that 50% of cops are fucking psychos just looking for an excuse to kill someone.

[Pokesan]

Please explain how anything I've posted here celebrates Michael Brown's death. I ignored your first post because it was too ridiculous to bother acknowledging but since you keep trying to go there, I just gotta ask at this point:

Wtf are you talking about?

I apologize, I must have confused you with the guy posting irrelevant information as support for Michael Brown being killed by an officer of the peace.

I am quite sorry for the mistake!

[Sidelle]

I apologize, I must have confused you with the guy posting irrelevant information as support for Michael Brown being killed by an officer of the peace.

I am quite sorry for the mistake!

It's alright. Shit happens. We're good. :D

http://i.minus.com/iopKiYLqpDial.gif

[phacemeltar]

update?

[Lictor]

Every squad car has an in dash camera. The truth won't be known till that video is released. A traffic cop who pulled him over, from media accounts did not have knowledge of the robbery but unlikely due to radio/dispatch traffic, regardless how he resisted arrest determines the force used by the officer.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Every squad car has an in dash camera.

This isn't true. I lived in Massachusetts for 28 years and they have only had dash cameras in a few "test areas" for the past 5 years. What little research I can do said that the police chief in this town stated they had 2 dashcams and 2 body cams but none of them were installed because the equipment was new.

While it's complete and utter bullshit that a police car in 2014 would not have a dashcam, it's an unfortunate reality.

[phacemeltar]

This isn't true.

can attest. the police chief came on tv saying that the dash cams were still in the boxes at the station at the time of the shooting. the only video evidence was taken by a little girl on her cell phone.

she was taken into custody and her phone was confiscated by the police department.

[Lojik]

Was this guy related to Leroy?

[Naprox]

Well wrongly accused of robbing a store - so getting wrongly accused of blocking traffic since there was none according to witnesses, would probably make any 18 year old a little pissed off.

Probably had every right to be mad at the cop.. its unfortunate that if you get mad at a cop they bust you for it, no mater who you are, let alone an 18 year old black kid.

Might want to inform yourself a little better before you open your mouth and prove how ignorant you are. Brown was found with the carton of cigars that he stole from the store on his corpse. But yes, wrong accused....of being a "upstanding teen" as spewed from people like yourself.

[iruinedyourday]

Might want to inform yourself a little better before you open your mouth and prove how ignorant you are. Brown was found with the carton of cigars that he stole from the store on his corpse. But yes, wrong accused....of being a "upstanding teen" as spewed from people like yourself.

suck my huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge dick you fucking creep

[Arclyte]

who fucking cares? just another dead niglet criminal

cop just saved missouri a jail cell, because you know that fat fuck was gonna be spending 2/3rds of his life there

are you people going to cry crocodile tears every time one of these monkeys attacks a cop and gets shot?

[quido]

Did you guys know that Michael Brown is actually Latarian Milton - he got a name change to try to wipe the slate clean after stealing his grandmother's car and beating her up at a Walmart.

[quido]

It's not so fun to do bad things anymore.

[Glenzig]

Did you guys know that Michael Brown is actually Latarian Milton - he got a name change to try to wipe the slate clean after stealing his grandmother's car and beating her up at a Walmart.

If that's true then that's actually both really hilarious and kinda sad at the same time.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Did you guys know that Michael Brown is actually Latarian Milton - he got a name change to try to wipe the slate clean after stealing his grandmother's car and beating her up at a Walmart.

I LOVE THIS COUNTRY SO MUCH

[Kekephee]

I LOVE THIS COUNTRY SO MUCH

If that's true then that's actually both really hilarious and kinda sad at the same time.




It's not true, he's trolling

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

we know lol

[Rais]

Found Harrison
https://twitter.com/angry_vet_/status/500771282439667713/photo/1

[Peatree]

Michael Brown played a Ranger on Red.

[capco]

With riots raging in Ferguson, MO following the shooting death by police of an unarmed African-American youth, the nation has turned its eyes toward social injustice and the continuing crisis of race relations. Here are The Onion’s tips for being an unarmed black teen in America:


Shy away from dangerous, heavily policed areas.

Avoid swaggering or any other confident behavior that suggests you are not completely subjugated.

Be sure not to pick up any object that could be perceived by a police officer as a firearm, such as a cell phone, a food item, or nothing.

Explain in clear and logical terms that you do not enjoy being shot, and would prefer that it not happen.

Don’t let society stereotype you as a petty criminal. Remember that you can be seen as so much more, from an armed robbery suspect, to a rape suspect, to a murder suspect.

Try to see it from a police officer’s point of view: You may be unarmed, but you’re also black.

Avoid wearing clothing associated with the gang lifestyle, such as shirts and pants.

Revel in the fact that by simply existing, you exert a threatening presence over the nation’s police force.

Be as polite and straightforward as possible when police officers are kicking the shit out of you.


http://www.theonion.com/articles/tips-for-being-an-unarmed-black-teen,36697/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default

[NegaStoat]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t457/OmniStoat/SarcFunny/1408334646817_zpscef9ad1c.jpg

[Nocsucow]

With riots raging in Ferguson, MO following the shooting death by police of an unarmed African-American youth, the nation has turned its eyes toward social injustice and the continuing crisis of race relations. Here are The Onion’s tips for being an unarmed black teen in America:


Shy away from dangerous, heavily policed areas.

Avoid swaggering or any other confident behavior that suggests you are not completely subjugated.

Be sure not to pick up any object that could be perceived by a police officer as a firearm, such as a cell phone, a food item, or nothing.

Explain in clear and logical terms that you do not enjoy being shot, and would prefer that it not happen.

Don’t let society stereotype you as a petty criminal. Remember that you can be seen as so much more, from an armed robbery suspect, to a rape suspect, to a murder suspect.

Try to see it from a police officer’s point of view: You may be unarmed, but you’re also black.

Avoid wearing clothing associated with the gang lifestyle, such as shirts and pants.

Revel in the fact that by simply existing, you exert a threatening presence over the nation’s police force.

Be as polite and straightforward as possible when police officers are kicking the shit out of you.


http://www.theonion.com/articles/tips-for-being-an-unarmed-black-teen,36697/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default

Lol'd hard as fuck

[Daywolf]

The point is, he was portrayed as Mr. Innocent just minding his own business...
Yeah that was the big thing about it early on, setting off demonstrations.. and then lootings and assaults etc. Last I heard even one guy in the hospital in critical condition. Because this guy was a saint... uh-huh. One minute he is assaulting a clerk at a liquor store and stealing some stuff. Next minute he is taking on a cop, same deal. Can't say they are not related, the guy was a menace on a path of rage.

---
The cop shot in self-defense (http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/)
---
(background conversation on the video)

#1 How’d he get from there to there?
#2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck
{crosstalk}
#2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him
{crosstalk}
#2 Then the next thing I know he doubled back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him –

[there is dispute here whether he says "doubled back" or "coming back."]
#1. Oh, the police got his gun
#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him
{crosstalk}
#2 Police fired shots – the next thing I know – the police was missing
#1 The Police?
#2 The Police shot him
#1 Police?
#2 The next thing I know … I’m thinking … the dude started running … (garbled something about “he took it from him”)

[Gaffin 7.0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5GuHd0AteU

[MrSparkle001]

What "eyewitnesses" will say now is that he was shot in front while had his hands up saying "don't shoot"

[MrSparkle001]

and that doesn't mean the cop was correct in using deadly force. Apparently the autopsy shows that he was shot at a distance (something about gunpowder residue, which I remember from the Trayvon case). So how can deadly force be used appropriately vs someone unarmed at a distance?

[Orruar]

and that doesn't mean the cop was correct in using deadly force. Apparently the autopsy shows that he was shot at a distance (something about gunpowder residue, which I remember from the Trayvon case). So how can deadly force be used appropriately vs someone unarmed at a distance?

Apparently you didn't go directly to the source of the info. All they could determine so far was that he was at least 2 feet from the officer. Could be 2, could be 30, could be a quarter mile. I think if someone who was 300 lbs was charging at you, you'd be right to shoot even from 30 feet.

As for eyewitnesses changing their stories to match the facts, nobody is going to buy it. We now can discount any eyewitness who claimed he was shot while running away (does such a person exist?) That's how an investigation works. Forensic science can help us determine which eyewitnesses are most credible in order to determine things that can't be determined through forensic science alone.

[Daywolf]

What "eyewitnesses" will say now is that he was shot in front while had his hands up saying "don't shoot"
Well originally it was claimed he was a saint running away from an ebil cop that just shot him in the back for lolz, lots of rage generated. Even the DOJ held back the video from the crime at the liquor store that shows he was no saint but just another thug. Now it's confirmed he wasn't shot in the back, and not only testimony that he was coming at the cop with the cops weapon drawn on him, but a video that confirms this with with eyewitness bystander speaking about what happened in the background of the video.

I think the most disturbing thing is why did the DOJ hold back the video? That would be Holder and/or 0bama (blunder or intentional?). imo so many years of them generating greater and greater divisions in the nation, along racial lines, seems more like a flashpoint they have been waiting for to take advantage of a manufactured situation.

[MrSparkle001]

Apparently you didn't go directly to the source of the info. All they could determine so far was that he was at least 2 feet from the officer. Could be 2, could be 30, could be a quarter mile. I think if someone who was 300 lbs was charging at you, you'd be right to shoot even from 30 feet.

As for eyewitnesses changing their stories to match the facts, nobody is going to buy it. We now can discount any eyewitness who claimed he was shot while running away (does such a person exist?) That's how an investigation works. Forensic science can help us determine which eyewitnesses are most credible in order to determine things that can't be determined through forensic science alone.

I watched the news conference live. I think the medical examiner was the same guy from the Trayvon case but I'm not positive (I know I've seen him talk about this sort of thing before).

He mentioned that the lack of gunpowder residue meant he was not shot up close, which brings into question any statements that he was going after the officer's gun.

And yes I agree about eyewitnesses, I'm just predicting what will be said by some people. There are people who are automatically finding the officer guilty and exonerating Brown and they'll say whatever's necessary to confirm it.

What's funny is during the news conference Brown's lawyer said the autopsy confirms the accounts that Brown was facing away and the kill shots were back to front, claiming a small bullet wound on top of the head led to an exit wound out the right eye. The medical examiner took the podium after and said something different, that it exited the eye and re-entered the jaw, like he was shot with his head down not back to front.

Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhHhlu-IqVw&feature=player_detailpage#t=492

[MrSparkle001]

that it exited the eye and re-entered the jaw

I mean re-entered near the collarbone.

[ManosMan]

http://bearingarms.com/uploads/2014/08/baden-autopsy.png
sauce (http://bearingarms.com/autopsy-shows-michael-brown-shot-front-consistent-claims-charged-officer/3/)

[MrSparkle001]

Well originally it was claimed he was a saint running away from an ebil cop that just shot him in the back for lolz, lots of rage generated. Even the DOJ held back the video from the crime at the liquor store that shows he was no saint but just another thug. Now it's confirmed he wasn't shot in the back, and not only testimony that he was coming at the cop with the cops weapon drawn on him, but a video that confirms this with with eyewitness bystander speaking about what happened in the background of the video.

I think the most disturbing thing is why did the DOJ hold back the video? That would be Holder and/or 0bama (blunder or intentional?). imo so many years of them generating greater and greater divisions in the nation, along racial lines, seems more like a flashpoint they have been waiting for to take advantage of a manufactured situation.

Well the video at first doesn't seem relevant to the shooting and only seems to be for "character assassination" like his family claimed. When you think about it a bit though it might be completely relevant: Here's a guy that just strongarm robbed a store and is approached by a cop not long after. The cop doesn't know he's a suspect, he's just telling him to get out of the street, but Brown doesn't know that, and he panics or acts like an idiot and assaults the cop in a such a way that the cop draws his gun and fires multiple times. I don't know exactly what Brown did that made the cop do that, but he did something.

I saw that witness video last night too. I had a hard time understanding it but someone typed out a transcript. Yeah I'd say that's probably the most accurate eyewitness account of the incident.

[iruinedyourday]

There are people who are automatically finding the officer guilty and exonerating Brown and they'll say whatever's necessary to confirm it.

Even if this were true, you don't think that this could be equally said for people who automatically think that the officer is innocent?

[Tasslehofp99]

What really worries me is the fact that the police force being used to combat American civilians is better equipped than the military personnel we sent over to invade Iraq/Afghanistan.

[MrSparkle001]

http://bearingarms.com/uploads/2014/08/baden-autopsy.png
sauce (http://bearingarms.com/autopsy-shows-michael-brown-shot-front-consistent-claims-charged-officer/3/)

See that little dot in the hairline above the right eye? That's the wound the Brown lawyer is claiming as proof he was shot back to front.

The examiner said that bullet exited the eye, went back in, exited the jaw and re-entered near the collarbone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhHhlu-IqVw#t=1077

Now I don't know about anyone else but to me that's not a back to front hit like his lawyer claims, that's a hit with his head and possibly torso down.

[MrSparkle001]

Even if this were true, you don't think that this could be equally said for people who automatically think that the officer is innocent?

How many people thought the officer was automatically innocent? More and more people are starting to think that it's a real possibility as more evidence is revealed but I don't know anyone who automatically presumed the officer was innocent without hearing any evidence.

I'm sure there were people who did though, especially other cops.

It's still quite possible he was not justified in using deadly force although that's becoming less and less likely.

[Archalen]

The important thing here is the militarization of our police force, not some black guy. Learn to think critically and look for systemic causes.

[ManosMan]

Now I don't know about anyone else but to me that's not a back to front hit like his lawyer claims, that's a hit with his head and possibly torso down.
The autopsy report shows wounds Bruce Smith would have taken if late 80's QB's could carry guns.

[Tasslehofp99]

The important thing here is the militarization of our police force, not some black guy. Learn to think critically and look for systemic causes.

Yeah, the news coverage of this incident is pretty scary stuff.

[Sidelle]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rfJtlS1Y5dw/UOF9WPqEb5I/AAAAAAAAES0/qDd2IkkVinc/s1600/FEMA+camp.jpg

[Orruar]

He mentioned that the lack of gunpowder residue meant he was not shot up close, which brings into question any statements that he was going after the officer's gun.

The cop's story of the events doesn't have him going for the gun at the time of the shooting. It involves being knocked back into his car, being punched in the face, then struggling for the gun inside the car, where a shot is fired (misses everyone). Then Mr. Brown starts to retreat from the scene. The cop pursues, says "Freeze!", then Mr. Brown turns, has a few choice things to say, and then rushes at him.

So there is no inconsistency between the physical evidence uncovered so far and the cop's story.

[Orruar]

Even if this were true, you don't think that this could be equally said for people who automatically think that the officer is innocent?

I automatically think everyone is innocent until proven otherwise. You clearly do not believe in one of the basic tenets of modern society.

[capco]

Dorian Johnson's account

According to Michael Brown's friend, Dorian Johnson, who was walking with Brown at the time, the police officer pulled up beside them and said, "Get the fuck on the sidewalk." Johnson said the young men replied that they were "not but a minute away from [their] destination, and [they] would shortly be out of the street". Johnson states that the officer drove forward without saying anything further, only to abruptly back up, positioning his vehicle crossways in their path, almost hitting the two men. Said Johnson, "We were so close, almost inches away, that when he tried to open his door aggressively, the door ricocheted both off me and Big Mike's body and closed back on the officer."

At that point, the officer, still in his car, grabbed Brown through the open window around the neck. Brown tried to pull away, but the officer continued to pull Brown toward him.

According to Johnson, Brown "did not reach for the officer's weapon at all", insisting that Brown was attempting to get free of the officer rather than attempting to attack him or take his weapon from him.

At that point, according to Johnson, the officer drew his weapon, and "he said, 'I'll shoot you' or 'I'm going to shoot,'" and almost instantaneously fired his weapon, hitting Brown.

Following the initial gunshot, Johnson said that Brown was able to free himself, at which point the two fled for their lives. The officer exited the vehicle, after which he fired a second shot, striking Brown in the back according to Johnson. At that point, according to Johnson, Brown turned around with his hands in the air and said, "I don't have a gun. Stop shooting!" The officer then shot Brown several more times, killing him. Johnson's attorney stated that officer Wilson did not attempt to resuscitate Brown, did not call for medical help, and “he didn’t call it in that someone had been shot.”

The resulting autopsy from Dr. Michael M. Baden revealed that all bullets were fired into the front of Brown, which appears to contradict Johnson's account that Brown was shot in the back.

Piaget Crenshaw's account

Piaget Crenshaw, a witness to the shooting, said that from her vantage point, it appeared that the police officer and Brown were arm wrestling before the officer initially shot Brown from within his vehicle. The officer then chased Brown for about 20 feet before shooting him again. Crenshaw stated, "I saw the police chase him...down the street and shoot him down." She added that when Brown then raised his arms, the officer shot him two more times, killing him.

According to earlier reports that appeared on August 10, 2014, Crenshaw said she saw Brown attempt to flee with his hands in the air and that he was hit with several shots as he ran.

On August 18, 2014, after the release of Baden's autopsy report, Crenshaw told CNN's Michaela Pereira that no shots hit Brown's back as he was running away, "Clearly none of [the shots] hit him, but one, I think, did graze him as they said on the autopsy report. At the end, he just turned around ...after I'm guessing he felt the bullet grazed his arm, he turned around and he was shot multiple times."

Police account

In a news conference on August 10, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar stated, "The genesis of this shooting incident was a physical confrontation" during which Brown "physically assaulted the police officer". According to Belmar, the officer attempted to exit his vehicle but was pushed back into the car by Brown, who then assaulted the officer inside the car. Brown then allegedly attempted to seize the officer's gun, which was fired at least once during the struggle. Belmar acknowledged that "more than a couple" of shots were fired in the course of the encounter.

Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson later stated that the officer who shot Brown was injured in the incident. The Ferguson City Police Department had declined to identify the officer involved in the shooting, who had been placed on administrative leave, but released Officer Wilson's name on August 15, 2014. Dashboard cameras are not used in Ferguson police cars.

Tiffany Mitchell's account

Tiffany Mitchell, in an interview with St. Louis television news station KMOV, said she arrived in the area near the beginning of the altercation. She said that she was watching as the first gunshot was fired while the police officer, but not Brown, was still in the vehicle, at which point she attempted to retrieve her cell phone in order to film the unfolding event, but stopped and sought cover when she heard gunshots.

As Mitchell described events, "As I pull onto the side, the kid, he finally gets away, he starts running. As he runs the police get out of his vehicle and he follows behind him, shooting. And the kid's body jerked as if he was hit from behind, and he turns around and puts his hands up like this, and the cop continued to fire until he just dropped down to the ground and his face just smacks the concrete."

Bystander heard on video of incident

Some sources suggest that an unidentified bystander, heard speaking in the background of a video filmed shortly after the shooting, appears to confirm the police account. According to the Daily Caller, after Brown stopped running and turned his back, "Next thing I know he’s coming back towards the police. The police had his gun drawn on him," according to the witness. "Police kept dumping on him, I’m thinking that the police missed him,” he continued, saying that he heard “at least five shots”. The bystander continued, "I think ... dude start running, kept coming toward the police," which the Daily Caller says contradicts other witnesses' accounts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

The important thing here is the militarization of our police force, not some black guy. Learn to think critically and look for systemic causes.

That's besides the point when discussing Michael Brown. If you want to talk about the Ferguson situation overall there are two other threads that particular topic.

[Archalen]

this whole debate is retarded dude should have never been shot dead regardless if he is a thug

^ this is one of the only comments in the thread that is on point actually.

[ManosMan]

Uhh... I don't think the police are claiming he was shot dead for 'being a thug' as much as they're saying he was shot dead for 'charging an officer and potentially trying to kill him'.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Perp reaches for your gun, standard procedure is to respond with lethal force. Why is this being questioned? The only question that should be asked is "did he reach for the cop's gun?". Anything else is ignorant dramatization.

[Orruar]

^ this is one of the only comments in the thread that is on point actually.

Your judgment of what is "on point" is pretty off point. Nobody said he was shot for being a thug. The whole debate is about whether he was engaged in assaulting a police officer, which is the only thing that really matters here. Did he pose imminent bodily harm to another human being? If so, the shooting is warranted. That is all that really matters, and a comment saying "he should have never been shot dead" is completely pointless as it just expresses one person's opinion.

[Orruar]

Perp reaches for your gun, standard procedure is to respond with lethal force. Why is this being questioned? The only question that should be asked is "did he reach for the cop's gun?". Anything else is ignorant dramatization.

The gun reaching is not going to be a big part of the investigation here. Even by the officer's account, the gun reaching occurred prior to Mr. Brown retreating. The officer does not claim that Mr. Brown was reaching for the gun a second time, so that's kind of moot. You can't just shoot someone who reached for a gun once if they are in the act of retreating. What will be important is whether Mr. Brown then turned around and ran towards the officer in an aggressive manner.

[Daywolf]

How many people thought the officer was automatically innocent? More and more people are starting to think that it's a real possibility as more evidence is revealed but I don't know anyone who automatically presumed the officer was innocent without hearing any evidence.

I'm sure there were people who did though, especially other cops.

It's still quite possible he was not justified in using deadly force although that's becoming less and less likely.
I didn't say anything on this matter until relevant information was released, which was after the demonstrations... er lootings started. Fact is I had no opinion at all for at least a couple days until the facts stared to emerge.

Same thing on the Kelly Thomas murder. Oh yeah.. guy was white, not a huge story, no reason to go out and burn down our own neighborhoods led by the NAACP and Black Panthers. But cops do screw up, nothing new, but usually it's dealt with if allowed due process to succeed.

I can say I have been threatened to be shot by cops before. One thing for sure, I didn't charge at him, that's simply considered suicide. But then I didn't rob a liquor store minutes before, I was just a teen headed home from a friends house after curfew, ducked back into my friends back yard and closed the door of the shed behind me. "come out or you might get shot" "come out or we may shoot you" "you don't want to get shot, do you?" etc etc. Yeah... my friend told them to F'off and get the hell off his property :p
Not my only encounter with cops in the wrong.

But yeah, lets just overlook the fact that cops work for local, state and federal government agencies (Holder and Obama are just suuch victims). Lets just blame it all on white people, or cops, or the mom and pops store they just looted and burnt to the ground, since they are the "evil rich 1%'ers" anyway, teh maaan holding them down. "no justice no peace" - "no justice no peace" and free TV sets!

Other than that, what someone said, yes militarization of the police, agreed. Possible FEMA camps in the future, of course. But all these black people are just blowing their rage led by the very people that will do those things to them. If we were only untied to make sure the gov wouldn't overstep their bounds (as we have been, as we were); but being divided as they would have you, it only plays into their own power struggle and a reason to see the US fall into a state of complete strife, into anarchy. Then they will happily come in and save you from yourselves, and put everyone in chains for your safety.

Breaking: And now enters the National Guard... :(
Was this why 0bama had an undisclosed emergency meeting with Biden, cutting his vacation short? imo a move to worsen the situation after 0bama's limp-wrist appeals for civil order. Good time to get out of the cities for a short vacation imo.. or long vacation.

0bama: "Turns out I'm really good at killing people".

[Sidelle]

I wish people could see how easily they are being used by agitators like Al Sharpton and the Black Panthers. Makes me sick.

They love having everyone divided and fighting against each other. I'm thinkng maybe some of the stuff I've heard is true. The looters (most of them) maybe not from Ferguson at all?

[Tasslehofp99]

What will be important is whether Mr. Brown then turned around and ran towards the officer in an aggressive manner.

So running towards a cop warrants being shot multiple times? I mean couldn't he have gotten into his car and driven away/called for backup when the dude turned to run away from him?? I thought Lethal Force was only to be used as a last resort; when faced with lethal force.

I guess things are rapidly changing in this country, though. If you do a little google searching it becomes clear that unarmed people are gunned down by murderous police with an alarming frequency. I just read a story about a unarmed woman being shot by a police officer for rolling up her window; insanity. Something obviously has to change about the way this country is being policed.


Whatever happened to all of the police forces around the country investing in non-lethal weaponry to avoid situations such as this? I mean the police I'm seeing on the news are in full military equipment; but they can't afford tasers for their officers?
Someone was unnecessarily killed by a police officer who was obviously not trained enough to deal with the situation he found himself in that day.

[Archalen]

Your judgment of what is "on point" is pretty off point. Nobody said he was shot for being a thug. The whole debate is about whether he was engaged in assaulting a police officer, which is the only thing that really matters here. Did he pose imminent bodily harm to another human being? If so, the shooting is warranted. That is all that really matters, and a comment saying "he should have never been shot dead" is completely pointless as it just expresses one person's opinion.

It's a worthless debate compared to the culture resulting from police force militarization. This specific case is merely a symptom of an underlying issue.

[ManosMan]

So running towards a cop warrants being shot multiple times? I mean couldn't he have gotten into his car and driven away

..... come on .......................

[Frieza_Prexus]

So running towards a cop warrants being shot multiple times?

In many cases, yes.

[Orruar]

So running towards a cop warrants being shot multiple times? I mean couldn't he have gotten into his car and driven away/called for backup when the dude turned to run away from him?? I thought Lethal Force was only to be used as a last resort; when faced with lethal force.

Actually, police are allowed to use lethal force in two instances:
1) Self defense or defense of another
2) If they think the person just committed a felony assault

Both apply here. And the cop is required to pursue a suspect who just assaulted him. Do you really think our cops should just run away in a situation like this? What an absurd and foolish position to take. It makes one think you don't know much about anything at all.

I guess things are rapidly changing in this country, though. If you do a little google searching it becomes clear that unarmed people are gunned down by murderous police with an alarming frequency. I just read a story about a unarmed woman being shot by a police officer for rolling up her window; insanity. Something obviously has to change about the way this country is being policed.

If there are other cases where innocent people are being killed by police, then we should be pushing for those police to be prosecuted as criminals. Rallying around this particular case may not be fruitful. I have read a lot of stories about police killing people without cause and this one doesn't seem like the best example of police misconduct.

Whatever happened to all of the police forces around the country investing in non-lethal weaponry to avoid situations such as this? I mean the police I'm seeing on the news are in full military equipment; but they can't afford tasers for their officers?
Someone was unnecessarily killed by a police officer who was obviously not trained enough to deal with the situation he found himself in that day.

That's about the only good point you've made here. I don't know what the issues are regarding non-lethal vs lethal weapon usage, but it would be nice if we had non-lethal alternatives used more often.

[radditsu]

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1952035/


White kid charged police...naked.... got murdered. I used to work there

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

The gun reaching is not going to be a big part of the investigation here. Even by the officer's account, the gun reaching occurred prior to Mr. Brown retreating. The officer does not claim that Mr. Brown was reaching for the gun a second time, so that's kind of moot. You can't just shoot someone who reached for a gun once if they are in the act of retreating. What will be important is whether Mr. Brown then turned around and ran towards the officer in an aggressive manner.
That is a single altercation. Why are you trying to turn it into two separate situations? When Brown turned around and charged the cop, he was still the person who had just tried to take his weapon. Nothing had changed so stop pretending it's not relevant when it's literally the most relevant point when determining if it was excessive force or not.


So running towards a cop warrants being shot multiple times?
Immediately after trying to take the cops gun? Yes. Every time, without question.

I mean couldn't he have gotten into his car and driven away/called for backup when the dude turned to run away from him?? I thought Lethal Force was only to be used as a last resort; when faced with lethal force.
Is this some sort of sick joke? Police officers are not supposed to abandon the scene of a crime unless ordered to do so with the exception being to pursue a suspect.

Whatever happened to all of the police forces around the country investing in non-lethal weaponry to avoid situations such as this? .
That failed. Same number of people got shot. A whole new group of people got tazed.

[Daywolf]

..... come on .......................
haha no doubt. Someone running at me and I have a gun out, I'm unloading. Then I'm pulling out another clip and unloading again :D
And when I say unloading, I'm speaking from the front of the barrel.

Yes yes the liberal "equal proportions" thing. If someone is trying to beat your brains out, you must respond in equal proportions or you are guilty. If someone comes at you with a baseball bat, you need to find a baseball bat, yourself. If someone is charging at you to snap your neck, you must run in the opposite direction and cry for help or you are guilty. However, when it's the liberal in the path of certain death, well that is a game changer and the rules don't apply.

What's required to be good for you and I is not always good for them. Good example here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/26/leland-yee-gun-traffickin_n_5038152.html). Top advocate of gun control (i.e. taking away peoples guns) caught arms trafficking... lol? D-San Francisco, Sen. Leland Yee. Big time busted, but a surprise? No. The rules only apply to you and I, not to them.

[Archalen]

I wish people could see how easily they are being used by agitators like Al Sharpton and the Black Panthers. Makes me sick.

They love having everyone divided and fighting against each other. I'm thinkng maybe some of the stuff I've heard is true. The looters (most of them) maybe not from Ferguson at all?

Al Sharpton, Black Panthers, Obama, Michael Brown... you seem to have a healthy curiosity for a certain race of people.

[Pokesan]

lol black panthers

[NegaStoat]

Anyone else simply glad that they don't have linebacker sized teenagers of ANY race walking down the middle of their neighborhood streets with stolen goods from the local store while high on weed?

It sounds like the cops in that town have a LOT more work to be done. Hopefully they get in more target practice.

[Orruar]

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1952035/


White kid charged police...naked.... got murdered. I used to work there

Man, where were the protests for that one? I could have used a new tv.

[Grimjaw]

Holy shit... :eek: Video stills from the strong arm robbery Michael Brown is suspected of a few minutes before he was shot. (No, not jumping the gun and saying the shooting was necessarily justified yet.)

But gentle giant, my ass...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvFZ9xgIIAAgCZW.jpg:large


only read op so far but ...

6 bullets (2 to the head) to unarmed robber entering in a downward position with arms up aka submitting

please do justify that.

[Grimjaw]

"Ferguson Police Chief says Officer who shot Michael Brown did not know he was a robbery suspect at the time of the confrontation." (via the press conference being held right now)

WELP

also that

[NegaStoat]

The bullets to the arms, especially the upper locations, were from a frontal facing. Meaning, if his arms were raised above his shoulders they would have hit differently. All hits were done with the arms in a lowered position closer to his waist, ie - probably while in motion.

Nice try though.

[MrSparkle001]

The cop's story of the events doesn't have him going for the gun at the time of the shooting. It involves being knocked back into his car, being punched in the face, then struggling for the gun inside the car, where a shot is fired (misses everyone). Then Mr. Brown starts to retreat from the scene. The cop pursues, says "Freeze!", then Mr. Brown turns, has a few choice things to say, and then rushes at him.

So there is no inconsistency between the physical evidence uncovered so far and the cop's story.

That actually does match the latest account of the incident I heard, partly reconstructed from that eyewitness video that was transcribed.

[Daywolf]

lol black panthers
And Nation of Islam. Google will bring up accounts of their presence there.

[capco]

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Ferguson, MO and Police Militarization (HBO):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHIatS36A&feature=youtu.be

[Sidelle]

Al Sharpton, Black Panthers, Obama, Michael Brown... you seem to have a healthy curiosity for a certain race of people.

I have a healthy curiosity for current events and want to know the truth of what's happened. If you're trying to imply I'm racist you can just gtfo. All the hate I'm witnessing in this situation is being perpetuated by a mob of people who still don't have all the details.

only read op so far but ...

6 bullets (2 to the head) to unarmed robber entering in a downward position with arms up aka submitting

please do justify that.

I haven't come to any conclusions yet because I'm a person who understands that it takes time for all the forensic evidence to come out. Too bad the looters and agitators didn't do the same.

[Byrjun]

Yeah, the news coverage of this incident is pretty scary stuff.

The news footage is pretty docile compared to what some of the amateur on-the-ground journalists are producing. I've been watching Tim Pool's coverage every night and it feels like something straight out of a dystopian shaky cam film. Except the fact that it is real.

He should be streaming soon. https://twitter.com/timcast

I Am Mike Brown is currently live @ http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930 (some of the interviews here are a bit biased)

I recommend checking out Tim Pool when he starts his stream up. He really shows what it's like to be down there right now; in the past couple nights alone he's had to escape fields of tear gas, run to his vehicle to escape sudden surges of violence, dodge bullets and Molotov cocktails, and just deal with general chaos.

My opinion on the actual shooting is worthless because it's affected by my personal bias. However, the other side of the story here is how quickly and effectively a community is able to be turned into a police state. This could happen anywhere, for any reason. Over the past few nights I've seen a child have her leg broken by a rubber bullet, a cop point their gun at a journalist and tell them to "get the fuck away," and all kinds of other scary shit. I only wish that people would look past the actual shooting (not enough information yet, if you think anyone was innocent it's due to bias), racism, and other obvious issues being brought up, and examine the situation in its entirety.

[capco]

My opinion on the actual shooting is worthless because it's affected by my personal bias. However, the other side of the story here is how quickly and effectively a community is able to be turned into a police state. This could happen anywhere, for any reason. Over the past few nights I've seen a child have her leg broken by a rubber bullet, a cop point their gun at a journalist and tell them to "get the fuck away," and all kinds of other scary shit. I only wish that people would look past the actual shooting (not enough information yet, if you think anyone was innocent it's due to bias), racism, and other obvious issues being brought up, and examine the situation in its entirety.

This is a point that John Oliver brings up pretty well: how quickly and easily it is for the police to essentially declare quasi martial law with military grade materiel.

These are trends across the country that I do not like to see. It feels like the grip of the ruling elite is slowly tightening around us.

[Orruar]

only read op so far but ...

6 bullets (2 to the head) to unarmed robber entering in a downward position with arms up aka submitting

please do justify that.

If that's actually what happened, it will be difficult for the defense to justify it.

[Orruar]

(not enough information yet, if you think anyone was innocent it's due to bias)

Yeah, some weird people have a bias towards the presumption of innocence.

Michael Brown = guilty.
Cop who shot him = guilty.
All the protesters = guilty.
The reporters who show up to report on the protests = guilty.
People sitting at home watching the protests = guilty.
Me talking about people sitting at home watching the protests? Well I'm innocent.

[Ratstomper]

It gets very tiring hearing hyperbole and bias from any and all sides. The few even-keeled views I've seen have been nice to see and help me from going crazy myself (I work in south St. Louis, so everyone is on about it).

Brown stealing cigarillos isn't right, but irrelevant to the shooting. Brown, by what I've heard, probably assaulted a police office in his car. If he had been shot in a scuffle inside a police car, I could call it justified. Shooting an unarmed person who is 30 ft away and no longer being aggressive...I can't see how to justify that.

The sad part is this will (and already has been) leveraged for political agendas on all sides. In the end, a young man is dead, a community is in upheaval and the event will get tossed onto the pile of things people use to justify whatever beliefs they have, regardless of what those beliefs may be. Tragic.

[Byrjun]

Tim Pool is now live at https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CmqHVKNZkhM

Was just talking to J. Cole.

[Orruar]

It gets very tiring hearing hyperbole and bias from any and all sides. The few even-keeled views I've seen have been nice to see and help me from going crazy myself (I work in south St. Louis, so everyone is on about it).

Brown stealing cigarillos isn't right, but irrelevant to the shooting. Brown, by what I've heard, probably assaulted a police office in his car. If he had been shot in a scuffle inside a police car, I could call it justified. Shooting an unarmed person who is 30 ft away and no longer being aggressive...I can't see how to justify that.

...

It sounds like perhaps you've already made up your mind as to what happened? How do you know that he was no longer being aggressive? One side of the story states that he was rushing the police officer at the time the officer unloaded into him. If he was running straight for the officer after previously attacking the officer, is the shooting not justified?

[Jib_]

The bullets to the arms, especially the upper locations, were from a frontal facing. Meaning, if his arms were raised above his shoulders they would have hit differently. All hits were done with the arms in a lowered position closer to his waist, ie - probably while in motion.

Nice try though.

dis wut i been sayin tho dis nig tried to play it cool, shhh shh they popo comin up... if he try an get out ima close da dough and u run homie... ahhhhh shit im dead homie knasayin

[Ratstomper]

It sounds like perhaps you've already made up your mind as to what happened? How do you know that he was no longer being aggressive? One side of the story states that he was rushing the police officer at the time the officer unloaded into him. If he was running straight for the officer after previously attacking the officer, is the shooting not justified?

My viewpoint is dictated by what details are verified. Brown running back toward the officer is unverified. Regardless, he was unarmed. Cops have non-lethal ways of bringing people into submission. They also have training to keep cool under duress.

What your saying hinges on the word "if": "IF he was running straight for the officer after attacking the officer...". There are also accounts that Michael had his hands up and have given up. When you run away from someone with a gun, you don't turn around and run back toward them. Not after you've moved 30+ feet away, anyways. That makes no sense.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Riveting commentary

[Orruar]

My viewpoint is dictated by what details are verified. Brown running back toward the officer is unverified. Regardless, he was unarmed. Cops have non-lethal ways of bringing people into submission. They also have training to keep cool under duress.

What details are verified exactly? Almost none, and making a decision in such a state of ignorance requires one to rely on faith/emotion, which is a poor way for intelligent beings to behave. You are a prisoner to emotional arguments, such as the "unarmed man" argument that has been prevalent lately. An unarmed man can pose just as much of a threat as an armed one. There is not a single self defense law in the US that requires a person is protecting themselves from an armed aggressor only.

What your saying hinges on the word "if": "IF he was running straight for the officer after attacking the officer...". There are also accounts that Michael had his hands up and have given up. When you run away from someone with a gun, you don't turn around and run back toward them. Not after you've moved 30+ feet away, anyways. That makes no sense.

Yes, there are a lot of IFs out there because there is a great deal about this that is not yet known. I'm giving possible reasons why you should withhold judgment. I am well aware of the extreme state of ignorance all of us are in regarding the situation, and urging you to not make a decision one way or the other until all the facts are out. And if you bother reading the rest of this thread (not really recommended as it's long and boring mostly), you'd see I do the same to people who have already determined Mr. Brown to be guilty of assault and the cop completely innocent.

[Ratstomper]

What details are verified exactly? Almost none, and making a decision in such a state of ignorance requires one to rely on faith/emotion, which is a poor way for intelligent beings to behave. You are a prisoner to emotional arguments, such as the "unarmed man" argument that has been prevalent lately. An unarmed man can pose just as much of a threat as an armed one. There is not a single self defense law in the US that requires a person is protecting themselves from an armed aggressor only.



Yes, there are a lot of IFs out there because there is a great deal about this that is not yet known. I'm giving possible reasons why you should withhold judgment. I am well aware of the extreme state of ignorance all of us are in regarding the situation, and urging you to not make a decision one way or the other until all the facts are out. And if you bother reading the rest of this thread (not really recommended as it's long and boring mostly), you'd see I do the same to people who have already determined Mr. Brown to be guilty of assault and the cop completely innocent.

Not once did I say whether one party was guilty or not. I said I don't see how, with the details that have been released, that the shooting was justified. We do have some details to work with here.

All I said for sure was that this is going to become a statistic and people are going to use the emotional leverage it generates for their own ends and that bums me out. Also, that it is a tragedy, which is true regardless of what outcome occurs.

[Tasslehofp99]

I've really been contemplating leaving the USA as soon as I finish school; this place is fucked. I'd rather live in a place where the government isn't allowed to murder it's citizens with impunity.

[Tongpow]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/st-louis-county-police-scanner

[MrSparkle001]

I've really been contemplating leaving the USA as soon as I finish school; this place is fucked. I'd rather live in a place where the government isn't allowed to murder it's citizens with impunity.

Now there's a guy who understands the situation and isn't jumping to crazy conclusions.

[Pokesan]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/st-louis-county-police-scanner

naw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmqHVKNZkhM

[Orruar]

I've really been contemplating leaving the USA as soon as I finish school; this place is fucked. I'd rather live in a place where the government isn't allowed to murder it's citizens with impunity.

I wonder if you'll be able to find a country with as much love for hyperbole as you.

[Daywolf]

I've really been contemplating leaving the USA as soon as I finish school; this place is fucked. I'd rather live in a place where the government isn't allowed to murder it's citizens with impunity.
http://www.blessthisstuff.com/imagens/stuff/img_wilson_castaway_volleyball_5.jpg

[Sidelle]

I'm catching up on some news from earler. Just hearing about the human chain of locals trying to prevent the agitators from getting through the line to start shit with the cops. That's fantastic. Good for them.

[Tasslehofp99]

Now there's a guy who understands the situation and isn't jumping to crazy conclusions.

it goes far beyond just this one situation =p

[Hailto]

http://i.imgur.com/jd6x0JM.jpg

[Hailto]

Guys live streaming people on a street corner grilling and selling hotdogs. Confirmed warzone.

[Daywolf]

Guys live streaming people on a street corner grilling and selling hotdogs. Confirmed warzone.
No doubt government GMO chicken dogs.
It's made of black people!

[Tasslehofp99]

Guys live streaming people on a street corner grilling and selling hotdogs. Confirmed warzone.

haha entrepreneurship bro

[Oleris]

Charlie LeDuff goes to St. Louis. http://youtu.be/rManrSKF3i4

[Swish]

I've really been contemplating leaving the USA as soon as I finish school; this place is fucked. I'd rather live in a place where the government isn't allowed to murder it's citizens with impunity.

Come to the UK, if the EU will let you that is :p

We just do the same kinda shit but more sneakily ;)

[DarkwingDuck]

Wait ok what happened in America?
A person of ethnic decent was shot by a police officer after committing a crime.
Stop the presses. Probably the most outrageous thing that's happened to humans in 75 years

[Gaffin 7.0]

smh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rManrSKF3i4&feature=youtu.be

[Swish]

Wait ok what happened in America?
A person of ethnic decent was shot by a police officer after committing a crime.
Stop the presses. Probably the most outrageous thing that's happened to humans in 75 years

To help mourn, feel free to loot your local community as you like and blame that on whitey too.

[Rhambuk]

It's been like a week, shouldnt this have been covered up by the next cop brutality vid by now?

old news here

[Tasslehofp99]

Where are the pictures of this police officer's life threatening injuries that he sustained which warrant shooting an unarmed civilian instead of just pursuing them and calling for backup?

At the VERY least this situation should lead to major reform in the areas of police use of force and the legislation that allows them to break laws/murder people with impunity. If this dudes face is not mashed up like he was in a boxing match, I think this was an unwarranted shooting. The only way I could see this being warranted is if he was being choked or was getting his face smashed. Anything else, its murder.

[Orruar]

Guys live streaming people on a street corner grilling and selling hotdogs. Confirmed warzone.

If I was in St. Louis, I'd go set up a kool aid and watermelon stand. Would be able to retire after a couple days.

[Whirled]

Beat down to a pulp or not. Assaulting an officer is not a lightly taken offense. If anyone was legitimately innocent it sure wasn't anyone who was beating down a police officer. /thread

[Sidelle]

Because of the racial tension and violence tearing Ferguson apart for the last week, don't you think the officials investigating would jump at the chance to end it right now by charging the cop with murder if they had even the slighted bit of physical evidence to support it? They would throw him under the bus because they need this whole episode to be over and it would be a neat and tidy ending for everyone. The longer it goes on, the worse they look. It's like their hands are tied because they know the truth already, that the evidence isn't going to lead to an arrest.

I'm thinking that the next day or two could get bloody if it's announced that the shooting was justified (if they find that it was). Eric Holder's showing up tomorrow and he's bringing the Justice Department's peacekeeping team with him. Maybe they have some bad news for the family and the community and they're getting ready to deal with the fallout from it.

Obviously this is all speculation on my part. Still waiting for the evidence to come out but I just have a bad feeling it's all gonna get much worse before it gets any better. I hope I'm wrong. :(

[Glenzig]

You think they want this to be over?

[Sidelle]

You think they want this to be over?

I think the local officials do. That's their backyard. Why wouldn't they (the local community and law enforcement both) want it to end?

[Glenzig]

I think the local officials do. That's their backyard. Why wouldn't they (the local community and law enforcement both) want it to end?

Yeah I'm sure you're right about that. I'm pretty sure its been taken out of their hands at this point though.

[Grimjaw]

http://i.imgur.com/jd6x0JM.jpg

rofl...

[Daywolf]

I think the local officials do. That's their backyard. Why wouldn't they (the local community and law enforcement both) want it to end?
I'd like to believe in the best in people, but....
This shit only happens in democrat controlled cities.

As for local law enforcement wanting it to stop or not, I don't think they have that control. They take orders from higher up.

[Sidelle]

I agree. Too late for that now, sadly.

[Gaffin 7.0]

thousands of people killed a day but this is news media important :rolleyes:

honestly no one would give a shit unless there was a riot going on

every city there is trigger happy dirty cops, ive personally seen cops exchange 10lbs of ice in front of my eyes.

blacks

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Where are the pictures of this police officer's life threatening injuries that he sustained which warrant shooting an unarmed civilian instead of just pursuing them and calling for backup?

At the VERY least this situation should lead to major reform in the areas of police use of force and the legislation that allows them to break laws/murder people with impunity. If this dudes face is not mashed up like he was in a boxing match, I think this was an unwarranted shooting. The only way I could see this being warranted is if he was being choked or was getting his face smashed. Anything else, its murder.

The suspect trying to take the officer's gun was enough to warrant lethal force. Learn standard procedure thx.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

I think the local officials do. That's their backyard. Why wouldn't they (the local community and law enforcement both) want it to end?

Something about law enforcement/government not wanting to make things look worse for them (just marching in and arresting the trouble makers).

Also impoverished people tend to not be the most intelligent so while the majority might want it to be over, there's enough of them that just want to thug it up and keep looting/throwing motolovs at "the man".

[DarkwingDuck]

To help mourn, feel free to loot your local community as you like and blame that on whitey too.

Looting your own community = shows how dumb and pathetic you are
Whitey = rules
People have always been playing cops n robbers.. Play with fire, you're eventually gonna get burned.

[iruinedyourday]

I'd like to believe in the best in people, but....
This shit only happens in democrat controlled cities.

As for local law enforcement wanting it to stop or not, I don't think they have that control. They take orders from higher up.

what the fuck are you talking about, democrat controlled cities? you fucking social conservatives are so retarded.

The mayor of Ferguson is a republican.

[Swish]

wut wud Mitt Romney do?

[iruinedyourday]

wut wud Mitt Romney do?

http://img.ffffound.com/static-data/assets/6/5e7b050cc62496168f9bee2b94bcc2c4ab61364b_m.jpg

[capco]

what the fuck are you talking about, democrat controlled cities? you fucking social conservatives are so retarded.

The mayor of Ferguson is a republican.

Bahaha

[Swish]

I can't think of a really liberal system that is thriving, can you?

[iruinedyourday]

I can't think of a really liberal system that is thriving, can you?

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me159xUxkZ1rlrv2ao1_400.jpg

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

I can't think of a really liberal system that is thriving, can you?

Europe? Canada? New Zealand?

[Kekephee]

Europe? Canada? New Zealand?

Every single Scandinavian country?

[Kekephee]

Swish was kidding though I think

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

o

[Patriam1066]

Europe? Canada? New Zealand?

Every single Scandinavian country?

Canada isn't liberal. The party that has run it for decades was centrist, and the government there is now run by conservatives. It's probably the most fiscally responsible nation on Earth.
Finland and Norway aren't liberal. New Zealand also is a good example, although I'd call them green rather than liberal. You're definitely right about Sweden and Denmark.

And to whomever said California, that must be a joke. Highest income inequality in the US... California is the worst run place in the galaxy outside of North Korea or Detroit.

[Patriam1066]

oh and RIP Michael Brown

[iruinedyourday]

There are large economic gaps in California because our LIBERAL state is full of people who are smarter than you are and can figure out how to get a job, while you republicans in your fucked up states keep your cars on blocks and complain about your high school knee injury and why it prevents you from looking for work at the pay-less shoe store & why try anyway because immigrants are steeling all the money.

Liberal doesn't mean that we just want to blatantly even the gap between rich & poor and give all our money away, it just means we arnt fucking idiots that think that the poor should be thrown in jail and would be happy to share a *portion* of what we have.

[Swish]

Europe? Canada? New Zealand?

Doorway to Europe p much open to a Muslim influx.

Already calls in the UK for an Islamic state among the most extreme groups. Give it 30-40 years, they'll have a much stronger case... and as tolerant/liberal folks, why would there be any objection?

Equal rights will go...women will be forced to cover up in public, sharia law will be in (which isn't all bad, its just mostly bad).

But yeah the point is that liberalism is a time bomb, it's not the 19th century anymore :/

Europe is in a similar state. Sweden is now the rape capital of Europe thanks to high levels of migration...and they're peaceful folks who don't get involved in wars. Was there last weekend, begging Romanians at every metro station - a lot of people are more than concerned about it.

Can't speak for Canada or New Zealand, but I know Australia and New Zealand both get criticism for being racist despite having a more diverse population.

If liberalism is thrive, its because more oppressive systems are kept at bay... doing that is near impossible outside of very multicultural places who can respect each other's differences.

[Daywolf]

what the fuck are you talking about, democrat controlled cities? you fucking social conservatives are so retarded.

The mayor of Ferguson is a republican.
Jay Nixon is a Democrat.
Uh-duh?
He's the one calling out the Guard, calling the shots in the state, ruling over the cities.

As for what I am, or my position, you have no clue, I've never stated this or that in these forums. But I'm sure that just comes from your libtard playbook. Learn to think for yourself? nah...

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me159xUxkZ1rlrv2ao1_400.jpg
Wat?!? You're joking, right? Or just that stupid. Quit drinkin the koolaid! Rots your brain.

[Patriam1066]

There are large economic gaps in California because our LIBERAL state is full of people who are smarter than you are and can figure out how to get a job, while you republicans in your fucked up states keep your cars on blocks and complain about your high school knee injury and why it prevents you from looking for work at the pay-less shoe store & why try anyway because immigrants are steeling all the money.

Liberal doesn't mean that we just want to blatantly even the gap between rich & poor and give all our money away, it just means we arnt fucking idiots that think that the poor should be thrown in jail and would be happy to share a *portion* of what we have.

California has Silicon Valley, porn, and Hollywood. All are very wealthy "industries" that don't employ that many people. Again, California is poorly run. And I'm not a republican, I just have eyes. Your state is doubling down on a high speed train that is over budget and has been delayed dozens of times, but Jerry Brown doesn't care because he, like you, is a fucking idiot.

Also, for compassionate liberals you sure do imprison a lot of Hispanics. And your colleges don't enroll Hispanics or Blacks in proportion to the population because your enlightened electorate voted to ban affirmative action. Must suck to live in a shit hole whose sole accomplishment is single-handedly bankrupting the United States.

Efficacy is the most important part of governance, and California has none. You want to pick a good liberal state in the US? Try Vermont.

[Daywolf]

Again, California is poorly run.
It's a disaster. Absolute disaster. And those industries are bleeding away, moving out of state over the mismanagement and high taxes. Many of the politicians are corrupt and in trouble with the law. California is being raped, and will fall apart soon enough.

[iruinedyourday]

Lol you poor white trash go. I bet your state is shit. Like I said cat argue with social conservatives because they're idiots.

[Patriam1066]

A) I'm not white.
B) I'm not a social conservative.
C) Ad hominem attacks aren't a basis for an argument, so you're right, you can't argue with me. You said nothing cept "Cali is cool bro LOL trust me I live here hehe!!".

Nice youtube link, I like your glasses

[indiscriminate_hater]

And your colleges don't enroll Hispanics or Blacks in proportion to the population because your enlightened electorate voted to ban affirmative action.

did you really just say that? i'm not a fan of my state and how things are going but that may crack the top 5 stupidest things i've read on this forum

[Daywolf]

Lol you poor white trash go. I bet your state is shit. Like I said cat argue with social conservatives because they're idiots.
That's all you have, libtard playbook says to tag someone as this or that, to lack understanding in your little narrow view, then you get a pat on the head by your masters. My state is shit? what state is that? hmm?

[iruinedyourday]

That's all you have, libtard playbook says to tag someone as this or that, to lack understanding in your little narrow view, then you get a pat on the head by your masters. My state is shit? what state is that? hmm?

I could also tag you as the racist fuck that you are, you racist fuck.

(sorry you know who!)

[Patriam1066]

did you really just say that? i'm not a fan of my state and how things are going but that may crack the top 5 stupidest things i've read on this forum

I was pointing out that as a liberal state, California had effectively stopped affirmative action, which is one of the most effective ways of elevating people from poverty.

The entire point of the argument was the lack of efficacy. Cali public schools are overwhelmingly white / Asian because poorer minorities can't get in. I think that's perfectly relevant to a discussion of how poorly run it is. Could be wrong, but thats how I see it.

[Daywolf]

I could also tag you as the racist fuck that you are, you racist fuck.

(sorry you know who!)
It's all you have, tags. Makes you feel comfortable, regardless it they fit or not, and likely never do. So what state is that? ? hmm?
Yeah my state is shit. About the only thing I can agree with you on. Though my position is by research and knowledge, true facts, yours is by blind hate not even knowing what you are talking about, shots in the dark. It's gonna burn you up one day.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I could also tag you as the racist fuck that you are, you racist fuck.

Have you ever not played the race card?

Damn, man.

[Sidelle]

How Liberals Miss the Mark (http://barbwire.com/2014/06/23/liberals-miss-mark-many-left-preach-tolerance-acting-hatefully/)

Can you try to stop being hateful fuck puddles? That would be great. Thx. :D

[iruinedyourday]

It's all you have, tags. Makes you feel comfortable, regardless it they fit or not, and likely never do. So what state is that? ? hmm?
Yeah my state is shit. About the only thing I can agree with you on. Though my position is by research and knowledge, true facts, yours is by blind hate not even knowing what you are talking about, shots in the dark. It's gonna burn you up one day.

you;re the one that tags people as X based on the color of their skin. I cant believe Im arguing with someone who hates black people, about how great California is.

Like we'd ever be able to come to a mutual agreement about anything even less contentious.

I have a feeling if it came down to deciding on how we were going to survive a life or death situation we'd both be dead.

Lets just suck it up, you are the reason I don't want to live in a non coastal state or in the south, and I am the reason you cant sleep at night because of our black president

[Sidelle]

you;re the one that tags people as X based on the color of their skin. I cant believe Im arguing with someone who hates black people, about how great California is.

Like we'd ever be able to come to a mutual agreement about anything even less contentious.

I have a feeling if it came down to deciding on how we were going to survive a life or death situation we'd both be dead.

Lets just suck it up, you are the reason I don't want to live in a non coastal state or in the south, and I am the reason you cant sleep at night because of our black president

Our president is black? Omg. :D

[Patriam1066]

you;re the one that tags people as X based on the color of their skin. I cant believe Im arguing with someone who hates black people, about how great California is.

Like we'd ever be able to come to a mutual agreement about anything even less contentious.

I have a feeling if it came down to deciding on how we were going to survive a life or death situation we'd both be dead.

Lets just suck it up, you are the reason I don't want to live in a non coastal state or in the south, and I am the reason you cant sleep at night because of our black president

Damn Al Sharpton didn't know you played EQ

[Daywolf]

you;re the one that tags people as X based on the color of their skin. I cant believe Im arguing with someone who hates black people, about how great California is.

Like we'd ever be able to come to a mutual agreement about anything even less contentious.

I have a feeling if it came down to deciding on how we were going to survive a life or death situation we'd both be dead.

Lets just suck it up, you are the reason I don't want to live in a non coastal state or in the south, and I am the reason you cant sleep at night because of our black president
But we have already come to agreement, my state is shit. I agree, California is shit, ever since the progressives hijacked the state. So... we agree!

For the rest...

http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2014/03/5bf317a25b3c380e97ffcd9025fd80c6deecc20c.jpg

[iruinedyourday]

you fuckn racist fuck. fuck your druid ass too.

[Archalen]

This is a point that John Oliver brings up pretty well: how quickly and easily it is for the police to essentially declare quasi martial law with military grade materiel.

These are trends across the country that I do not like to see. It feels like the grip of the ruling elite is slowly tightening around us.

See, I told you people you were missing the point; you didn't believe me. Go John Oliver, he gets it.

[Gaffin 7.0]

pity reply

[Hailto]

How Liberals Miss the Mark (http://barbwire.com/2014/06/23/liberals-miss-mark-many-left-preach-tolerance-acting-hatefully/)

Can you try to stop being hateful fuck puddles? That would be great. Thx. :D

Sidelle confirmed wife material.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

How Liberals Miss the Mark (http://barbwire.com/2014/06/23/liberals-miss-mark-many-left-preach-tolerance-acting-hatefully/)

Can you try to stop being hateful fuck puddles? That would be great. Thx. :D

Correct me if I'm wrong but is that article trying to say that not tolerating intolerance makes one a hypocrite?

[Hailto]

Is that your waifu in your signature kagatob?

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Is that your waifu in your signature kagatob?

Signature? No, I don't even know what the show is, just saw the image via a FB group and reminded me of you guys. Avitar is my ex-waifu though. :p

[Patriam1066]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is that article trying to say that not tolerating intolerance makes one a hypocrite?

We live in a democracy. Simply disagreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to call them a racist, a bigot, a homophobe, etc. It doesn't solve anything, poisons the discourse, and polarizes the electorate.

That guy at Mozilla got attacked for hating gays since he donated to a campaign against gay marriage. If a man disagrees with another group on the definition of marriage, he should lose his job? That's very near fascism. Rationalize it however you like, it's still a form of bigotry... Rabble-rousing people against those you disagree with proves how little merit an argument has. Win a debate through logic, not by force. Otherwise just join ISIS

[Patriam1066]

See, I told you people you were missing the point; you didn't believe me. Go John Oliver, he gets it.

If your house or business was being burned down you might support that martial law.

[iruinedyourday]

We live in a democracy. Simply disagreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to call them a racist, a bigot, a homophobe, etc. It doesn't solve anything, poisons the discourse, and polarizes the electorate.

That guy at Mozilla got attacked for hating gays since he donated to a campaign against gay marriage. If a man disagrees with another group on the definition of marriage, he should lose his job? That's very near fascism.

this shit is so stupid, conservatives support chick-fil a for being anti gay, liberals boycott becuse someone is anti gay. Whats the diff? Its fucking AMERICA straight up. Facisim, you fucking crazy?! Lol

Iits insane that anyone would think you could insult anyone by calling them liberal.

I hope none a yall go to church ya fucking daemons.

[Daywolf]

fascism.

[Ratstomper]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is that article trying to say that not tolerating intolerance makes one a hypocrite?

The problem is perspective. Tolerance and intolerance are entirely based on who is speaking at the time. Someone sharing their religion would be considered intolerance by some and attacking someone's religious beliefs would be considered intolerance by others. We don't really have any solid rulings as to what is intolerance and what isn't and even if we did, what room is there for new or unrepresented views to come into the picture? How does everyone get what they want? They can't.

Real tolerance is understanding that you have to share a world with these people, regardless of whether you like them or not. You have to tolerate them. The alternative is conflict; often large scale, bloody conflict.

Make lemonade, imo. It's healthier for everyone involved.

[Patriam1066]

this shit is so stupid, conservatives support chick-fil a for being anti gay, liberals boycott becuse someone is anti gay. Whats the diff? Its fucking AMERICA straight up. Facisim, you fucking crazy?! Lol

Iits insane that anyone would think you could insult anyone by calling them liberal.

I hope none a yall go to church ya fucking daemons.

You're supposed to have free speech. Why do you need to boycott people that you disagree with politically? If Chic-fil-a were murdering people, I'd understand that. I get boycotting Russia, etc. But to try to harm people economically because they disagree with you? It's ridiculous and pathetic. I am neither a democrat nor a republican, but I purchase goods and services from people that are all the time...
Your life must be difficult to be so very opinionated...

You're not going to like the Orwellian society you're creating, where no one disagrees with the prevailing wisdom because ass holes organize campaigns against ANYONE that dares to have a contrary opinion. The ability to freely discuss and disagree is a critical feature of a successful democracy, how else is progress made?

[Patriam1066]

The problem is perspective. Tolerance and intolerance are entirely based on who is speaking at the time. Someone sharing their religion would be considered intolerance by some and attacking someone's religious beliefs would be considered intolerance by others. We don't really have any solid rulings as to what is intolerance and what isn't and even if we did, what room is there for new or unrepresented views to come into the picture? How does everyone get what they want? They can't.

Real tolerance is understanding that you have to share a world with these people, regardless of whether you like them or not. You have to tolerate them. The alternative is conflict; often large scale, bloody conflict.

Make lemonade, imo. It's healthier for everyone involved.

Exactly

[iruinedyourday]

So we have to tolerate Nazi's is what your saying... Yea, real brilliant people hate liberals...

[Ratstomper]

Exactly

Just remember that sword cuts both ways. Noone walks away from a legitimate compromise happy.

[Sidelle]

We live in a democracy. Simply disagreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to call them a racist, a bigot, a homophobe, etc. It doesn't solve anything, poisons the discourse, and polarizes the electorate.

That guy at Mozilla got attacked for hating gays since he donated to a campaign against gay marriage. If a man disagrees with another group on the definition of marriage, he should lose his job? That's very near fascism. Rationalize it however you like, it's still a form of bigotry... Rabble-rousing people against those you disagree with proves how little merit an argument has. Win a debate through logic, not by force. Otherwise just join ISIS

You're supposed to have free speech. Why do you need to boycott people that you disagree with politically? If Chic-fil-a were murdering people, I'd understand that. I get boycotting Russia, etc. But to try to harm people economically because they disagree with you? It's ridiculous and pathetic. I am neither a democrat nor a republican, but I purchase goods and services from people that are all the time...
Your life must be difficult to be so very opinionated...

You're not going to like the Orwellian society you're creating, where no one disagrees with the prevailing wisdom because ass holes organize campaigns against ANYONE that dares to have a contrary opinion. The ability to freely discuss and disagree is a critical feature of a successful democracy, how else is progress made?

^^This. Yes.

[iruinedyourday]

You're supposed to have free speech. Why do you need to boycott people that you disagree with politically? If Chic-fil-a were murdering people, I'd understand that. I get boycotting Russia, etc. But to try to harm people economically because they disagree with you? It's ridiculous and pathetic. I am neither a democrat nor a republican, but I purchase goods and services from people that are all the time...
Your life must be difficult to be so very opinionated...

You're not going to like the Orwellian society you're creating, where no one disagrees with the prevailing wisdom because ass holes organize campaigns against ANYONE that dares to have a contrary opinion. The ability to freely discuss and disagree is a critical feature of a successful democracy, how else is progress made?

I'm going to answer this question seriously - The reason you would not shop somewhere where the owner actively donates to a cause that you find repulsive and racist and backwards and evil. Is because you don't want your money at the end of the day to go to that cause.

Besides, if someone doesn't want to eat somewhere because of personal preference dafuq is it to you? Are you tellin' me you wouldn't boycott a store if it was actively protesting some one you loved?

All that said, chick fil a is fucking nasty.

[Rhambuk]

chick fil a is fucking nasty.

[Gaffin 7.0]

yall be trippin chic fil a is fuckin delicious, specially them chicken biscuits with tea, diabeetus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2y7uq6NglM

[Patriam1066]

I'm going to answer this question seriously - The reason you would not shop somewhere where the owner actively donates to a cause that you find repulsive and racist and backwards and evil. Is because you don't want your money at the end of the day to go to that cause.

Besides, if someone doesn't want to eat somewhere because of personal preference dafuq is it to you? Are you tellin' me you wouldn't boycott a store if it was actively protesting some one you loved?

All that said, chick fil a is fucking nasty.

Slippery slope. I clearly don't agree with you about anything, so tell me where you work, so I can post screenshots of your forum comments. I guarantee you would get fired. What the fuck would that accomplish? Me going after your livelihood because I disagree with you... GREAT, a lose-lose!

The problem here is, you find people you disagree with "racist and backwards and evil." Dude, I grew up in fucking Iran, and you sound a lot like some of the people in the government there. You aren't the arbiter of good and evil in the world, live and let live...

[Rhambuk]

yall be trippin chic fil a is fuckin delicious, specially them chicken biscuits with tea, diabeetus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2y7uq6NglM

negative son, double down all day. Also Chicken fries back! fuck yeah cant wait for that shit

[radditsu]

Stop arming police and having them murder people.

[Clark]

The only reason this is news is because the Baltimore Ravens just lost a potential defensive lineman.

Lol

[iruinedyourday]

Slippery slope. I clearly don't agree with you about anything, so tell me where you work, so I can post screenshots of your forum comments. I guarantee you would get fired. What the fuck would that accomplish? Me going after your livelihood because I disagree with you... GREAT, a lose-lose!

The problem here is, you find people you disagree with "racist and backwards and evil." Dude, I grew up in fucking Iran, and you sound a lot like some of the people in the government there. You aren't the arbiter of good and evil in the world, live and let live...

No I'm sorry I don't simply find people that disagree with me racist and backwards.. I don't think you're racist and backwards because you think that boycotting a business is fascist, I just think you're miss informed.

I agree that its a slippery slope.. an Individual attacking another individual is not the same as a large enough portion of the populatoin being offended at a companies practices and the board of directors see'ing that their manager is going to cost them more money if they keep him in charge becuse of his personal belifes.

Like the guy at the counter, if he is a anti semite, well if he keeps it to himself hes not going to loose his job. But if he starts talking to customers about it before & after they order, hes gonna loose his job. You think that's wrong?

Same shit goes for the boss of the company.

All entirely different than if you hunted me down and tried to hurt me because you were personaly mad at me for being a dick to you on the internet... yea its a slippery slope but come on, dont you see how its pretty easy to navigate up and down it?

[Emile]

I'm amazed at all the e-tough guys in game and on the forums who melt into tears over even the hint of racism.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

We live in a democracy. Simply disagreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to call them a racist, a bigot, a homophobe, etc. It doesn't solve anything, poisons the discourse, and polarizes the electorate.

That guy at Mozilla got attacked for hating gays since he donated to a campaign against gay marriage. If a man disagrees with another group on the definition of marriage, he should lose his job? That's very near fascism. Rationalize it however you like, it's still a form of bigotry... Rabble-rousing people against those you disagree with proves how little merit an argument has. Win a debate through logic, not by force. Otherwise just join ISIS
Freedom of speech not freedom from the consequences of that speech. The Mozilla guy got what he deserved, don't oppose the masses unless you want to get burned. Isn't that kind of the point of this whole St. Louis thing?
The problem is perspective. Tolerance and intolerance are entirely based on who is speaking at the time. Someone sharing their religion would be considered intolerance by some and attacking someone's religious beliefs would be considered intolerance by others. We don't really have any solid rulings as to what is intolerance and what isn't and even if we did, what room is there for new or unrepresented views to come into the picture? How does everyone get what they want? They can't.

Real tolerance is understanding that you have to share a world with these people, regardless of whether you like them or not. You have to tolerate them. The alternative is conflict; often large scale, bloody conflict.

Make lemonade, imo. It's healthier for everyone involved.

Yet you ignore the fact that many of these groups are doing everything in their power to directly oppress the groups that they are intolerant against. Stopping oppression is not being intolerant, it's stopping oppression.

[Pringles]

My favorite part about all this is those protesting against violence.... who are protesting....... violently. Idiots.

[Pringles]

My favorite part about all this is those protesting against violence.... who are protesting....... violently. Idiots.

... and then expecting the police not to do something about it.

[indiscriminate_hater]

George W Bush doesn't care about black people

[Hailto]

I really don't care what happened to Michael Brown or whats going on in this shitty town. Am i part of the problem?

[Ratstomper]

Yet you ignore the fact that many of these groups are doing everything in their power to directly oppress the groups that they are intolerant against. Stopping oppression is not being intolerant, it's stopping oppression.

For the sake of brevity and ease of discussion, let's use an example. Exactly who did you have in mind when you say "these groups"? Lobbyists trying to pass anti-gay legislation? Maybe you meant those trying to pass anti-gun legislation? Or did you mean casino owners fighting for the rights to set up shop in Hawaii?

Do you see what I mean? For any one person who thinks they're being wronged, there is someone on the other side that bring they're same moral implications to bear. The only way around that Gordian knot is 1) both sides come to a mutual conclusion that they shouldn't be forcing other people to do things or 2) one side eradicates the other.

I think a lot of people know that, but few actually practice it. Actually stopping people who are unfairly manipulating the system to further their beliefs or whose beliefs or desires destabilize things or cause horrible things to happen is an independent issue; one that won't be solved until rational people from all beliefs learn that tolerance isn't a nice or fuzzy word. It's a survival mechanism that requires us to co-exist with people and ideas we don't like.

[Gaffin 7.0]

I really don't care what happened to Michael Brown or whats going on in this shitty town. Am i part of the problem?

[LulzSect]

petty larceny is worth death amirite

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Do you see what I mean? For any one person who thinks they're being wronged, there is someone on the other side that bring they're same moral implications to bear. The only way around that Gordian knot is 1) both sides come to a mutual conclusion that they shouldn't be forcing other people to do things or 2) one side eradicates the other.

I think a lot of people know that, but few actually practice it. Actually stopping people who are unfairly manipulating the system to further their beliefs or whose beliefs or desires destabilize things or cause horrible things to happen is an independent issue; one that won't be solved until rational people from all beliefs learn that tolerance isn't a nice or fuzzy word. It's a survival mechanism that requires us to co-exist with people and ideas we don't like.

That's one of the flaws with the two party system. Balls to the wall or nothing instead of simple option 3. For example.

For the sake of brevity and ease of discussion, let's use an example. Exactly who did you have in mind when you say "these groups"? Lobbyists trying to pass anti-gay legislation?
Gay marriage bans are wrong no matter what way you look at it, however at the same token, forcing priests to perform marriages against the will of their belief system is also wrong. If any of these lawmakers had a lick of sense, they'd allow the individual churches to decide whether or not they would allow same-sex marriages. The issue is the politicians who have money in it one way or the other so either side has much less gain if you make that sweet middle ground.
Maybe you meant those trying to pass anti-gun legislation?
You'll have to be more specific but either way banning any kind of weapon should be considered unconstitutional (You should be able to purchase a rocket launcher, AAA gun, Tanks, Planes etc.) and gun-free zones absolutely don't work. This is coming from a social progressive who has never owned/fired a gun mind you. ;)
Or did you mean casino owners fighting for the rights to set up shop in Hawaii?
I know next to nothing about the nuances of casino issues since I don't gamble but am not anti-gambling. I do know from experience with the casinos (I think Trump?) recently wanted to set up in Western Mass, that it should be up to the individual districts and by extension the local voter populace, to decide whether or not they want to allow it, no different than deciding about an amusement park, movie theater, shopping mall etc..

[Eliseus]

[QUOTE=KagatobLuvsAnimu;1583336]Gay marriage bans are wrong no matter what way you look at it, however at the same token, forcing priests to perform marriages against the will of their belief system is also wrong. If any of these lawmakers had a lick of sense, they'd allow the individual churches to decide whether or not they would allow same-sex marriages. The issue is the politicians who have money in it one way or the other so either side has much less gain if you make that sweet middle ground./QUOTE]

I agree, so is putting pedos in jail, and polygamy, and bestiality, and so on. I mean they were all born that way right? So how come they can't have their freedom to stick it into whatever hole they want.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

I agree, so is putting pedos in jail, and polygamy, and bestiality, and so on. I mean they were all born that way right? So how come they can't have their freedom to stick it into whatever hole they want.

Nobody is a victim when two or more consenting adults have a relationship, comparing pedophiles/bestiality to homosexuality/polyamory is comparing apples to meatloaf.

[Pokesan]

Gay marriage bans are wrong no matter what way you look at it, however at the same token, forcing priests to perform marriages against the will of their belief system is also wrong. If any of these lawmakers had a lick of sense, they'd allow the individual churches to decide whether or not they would allow same-sex marriages.


what in the everliving fuck are you talking about?

I'm astounded at how fucking dumb and wrong you are

[Eliseus]

Nobody is a victim when two or more consenting adults have a relationship, comparing pedophiles/bestiality to homosexuality/polyamory is comparing apples to meatloaf.

That isn't true one bit, and scientific evidence would back that up, for example the brain development of woman comparative to men. Other countries even have bigger age gaps then most of the US in terms of consensual sex. So are you saying that they younger people can't consciously make a decision until they magically hit the number 18 for the most part? For example, my son is 5 and smarter than you.

Bestiality is a hole different level. The human race has made is quiet apparent that we are the dominant species. As much so, we kill animals and eat them, but you are saying you aren't aloud to fornicate with them?

Notice you completely ignore polygamy and strayed away from it (probably because you disagree with it, but don't want yourself to look like and ignorant/arrogant/bigot asshole because you want your way, but don't want someone else to have theirs with something that is almost in the same level as gay rights when it comes to "everyone just needs some lovin"), you know, being an idiot, try to pick out what you want to read, or w/e might try and validate your points.

[Pokesan]

no really, do you think making gay marriage legal in any way forces or requires any church to perform gay wedding ceremonies?

you're a colossal idiot and i fucked your mother, bitch

[Eliseus]

Let's not ignore the fact that the things listed are apparently diseases though "born with it", while being gay magically isn't anymore and we just accept they are born faulty from the package, and instead of fixing it, we not are suppose to accept it.

[Eliseus]

Anyways, this has nothing to even do with the OP and will probably be called a racist soon.

[Eliseus]

rekt

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

what in the everliving fuck are you talking about?

I'm astounded at how fucking dumb and wrong you are

That isn't true one bit, and scientific evidence would back that up, for example the brain development of woman comparative to men. Other countries even have bigger age gaps then most of the US in terms of consensual sex. So are you saying that they younger people can't consciously make a decision until they magically hit the number 18 for the most part? For example, my son is 5 and smarter than you.

Bestiality is a hole different level. The human race has made is quiet apparent that we are the dominant species. As much so, we kill animals and eat them, but you are saying you aren't aloud to fornicate with them?

Notice you completely ignore polygamy and strayed away from it (probably because you disagree with it, but don't want yourself to look like and ignorant/arrogant/bigot asshole because you want your way, but don't want someone else to have theirs with something that is almost in the same level as gay rights when it comes to "everyone just needs some lovin"), you know, being an idiot, try to pick out what you want to read, or w/e might try and validate your points.

no really, do you think making gay marriage legal in any way forces or requires any church to perform gay wedding ceremonies?

you're a colossal idiot and i fucked your mother, bitch

Let's not ignore the fact that the things listed are apparently diseases though "born with it", while being gay magically isn't anymore and we just accept they are born faulty from the package, and instead of fixing it, we not are suppose to accept it.

Anyways, this has nothing to even do with the OP and will probably be called a racist soon.

wat

Neither of you know how to read.

[Eliseus]

Really? You know exactly what I was responding to and know what it was directed at. Don't come back in with some innocent response that apparently doesn't make any sense to you now, though it did when you commented on my last comment. Shut the fuck up retard.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Nobody is a victim when two or more consenting adults have a relationship, comparing pedophiles/bestiality to homosexuality/polyamory is comparing apples to meatloaf.

Comparing A/B to C/D is comparing Apples to Meatloaf.

WTF are you not getting?