Suggestions For Wizards

[Groo]

Before Kunark came out, I remember a time when wizards were getting a bad rap for being lazy and/or not helpful in groups. And most that I grouped with deserved it. But then came this one guy who turned everything around for me. His name was Payce, I think. It's been years. He did everything. Crowd control, stopping runners, area effect when practical, stunning NPC casters...you name it. And to top it off, he managed his mana usage very well. And even more than that was, he knew how to defend himself. He would attract mobs all the time, but he knew how to use root, stun, shadow step, shieldskin...everything in his arsenal so that the healers could focus on keeping the main tank healthy. He used root and stun a lot more than any wizards I've seen so far on p1999. These spells generally don't cost too much mana, so you can cast them repeatedly, and still contribute greatly to group success.

I'm making this post because I believe wizard is much more than just a "nuker" class. You have to use all of your skills. For example, as a cleric, I'd prefer that you consistently stun casters & healers rather than burn out your mana on melee mobs that our own melees can grind down. Or, if you're OOM and everything is going south, you still might be able to med enough for a root to help a dying melee escape to the zone line. Instead of trying to med up for a DD that's not going to finish off the mob(s) or save your teammate.

Anyways, if you want people to look for you in groups, you have to do something to make yourself stand out from the norm. You have to sell yourself by showing your potential to contribute to the group. You should do more in combat than just blow stuff up and meditate. I'm not trying to tell people how to play, but rather that there's a reason why some people don't necessarily want you in groups, and you have the ability to change that if you use all of the tools that you have at your disposal.

[Estu]

Good post.

[Houdiny]

I can vouch for this. There is a lot of things a Wizard can do for a group. We don't get snare unfortunately until 29, and it's aoe and at that point quite the mana hog. but our root does help. I use it all the time, and have my stun up at all times. What I find is the mana regen or lack thereof. I can't regen enough mana between pulls to even nuke once on a mob and stay ahead of the curve with mana unless I have clarity or better.

Stuns are very useful if they aren't getting resisted. They have a high resist component to them because most stuns are magic based. And our magic spells get resisted more often than cold/fire. But nevertheless it does help.

Lot of it depends on your group make up. If you have 2 good melee's in the group a well timed bomb can be more of use than any of the above. Mobs don't generally start casting heal until they are under 50%. If you can do 30% of that chunk of life instantly and the remaining group members are dps'ing it should die nearly instantly. And the one advantage to this is the dmg being done is considerable, and you are using 1 spell to do the work of 3, snare, stun and smaller dd. However you don't always have the luxury of having a lot of melee dps. So this isn't always the best method.

A good wizard can tell things like this and knows what is best for which circumstance.

[Messianic]

It's not that they're not helpful or lazy - those are more player characteristics than class characteristics.

It's that they can't do anything at all which effectively acts as a force multiplier for a group. Their sustained DPS blows. Stuns aren't all that necessary or comparatively useful if the rest of the group is decent, and are a pretty huge manasink if you're doing anything except Tishan's clash. Even rangers have root, and do a good deal more sustained DPS. AoE nuking is almost never appropriate in a traditional, non-AoE group. Shadow step/Yonder are rather pointless unless you're in a hallway or really safe environment already; if you pull aggro, using those spells is one of the worst things you can do for your tank. Snare is adequate.

Basically, if you're looking for a 6th member, every single other class is a better choice, players being equal or player quality being unknown.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not that they're not helpful or lazy - those are more player characteristics than class characteristics.

It's that they can't do anything at all which effectively acts as a force multiplier for a group. Their sustained DPS blows. Stuns aren't all that necessary or comparatively useful if the rest of the group is decent, and are a pretty huge manasink if you're doing anything except Tishan's clash. Even rangers have root, and do a good deal more sustained DPS. AoE nuking is almost never appropriate in a traditional, non-AoE group. Shadow step/Yonder are rather pointless unless you're in a hallway or really safe environment already; if you pull aggro, using those spells is one of the worst things you can do for your tank. Snare is adequate.

Basically, if you're looking for a 6th member, every single other class is a better choice, players being equal or player quality being unknown.

Disagree completely with this. You are entitled to your opinion of course, no matter how wrong it may be. I was consistently on top of parses in my guild on live. The only other threat to me was another Wiz that I was RL friends with. And this was the case for every expansion that I ever played in. And for the record I don't have problems finding a group. I actually have people sending me tells for groups when I am not even in LFG.

I will be the first to admit the Wizard class if often not played to its fullest extent. But don't bash on an entire class of players because you ran into a few bad ones. A good Wizard is great dps and saying otherwise is just fooling yourself.

Sure if the only DPS in the group is a Wizard then DPS is going to suffer. But if there is legitimate DPS in the group already a Wizard multiplies that greatly.

[theaetatus]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basically, if you're looking for a 6th member, every single other class is a better choice, players being equal or player quality being unknown.

Not really.. I'd take a wiz over a ranger, mage, druid or necro for dps, or a second tank or CC class, even over a 2nd monk or rogue if we needed some stuns, snares or root parking, or over a 1st monk or rogue if I knew the wiz was decent and we already had some melee dps.

[Splorf22]

So basically you are saying that a great wizard plays like a gimped enchanter.

Don't get me wrong, Wizards are a great raid class, arguably the single best raid class in Kunark and still very good in Velious, but for XP groups a bit of simple math can convince you that they suck.

If my group was War/Monk/Shm/Enc/Clr and I had a choice between a Paladin and a Wizard, I'd take the Paladin . . . who can do all the same CC a wizard can, while also tanking and letting the Warrior berserk for twice the wizard's dps.

Of course all this min/max is nothing compared to picking players that are fun to chat with [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So basically you are saying that a great wizard plays like a gimped enchanter.

Don't get me wrong, Wizards are a great raid class, arguably the single best raid class in Kunark and still very good in Velious, but for XP groups a bit of simple math can convince you that they suck.

If my group was War/Monk/Shm/Enc/Clr and I had a choice between a Paladin and a Wizard, I'd take the Paladin . . . who can do all the same CC a wizard can, while also tanking and letting the Warrior berserk for twice the wizard's dps.

Of course all this min/max is nothing compared to picking players that are fun to chat with [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A good Wizard is always on the brink of aggro. Doing more damage than this good Wizard will immediately put you on top of the aggro list. Especially one you say does twice the Wizards DPS. Unless it is a rogue with evade or some class that has aggro reduction. If that warrior is doing twice the DPS that the Wizard is there is no point in having the Paladin because he wont be seeing aggro at all. Not to mention you are taking a risk of letting someone with low health tank the mob and probably dying because his agility has been reduced to garbage. Absolutely terrible scenario.

If this was the case just run around with 5 warriors and a cleric and keep them all in berserk mode. The rest of the classes in EQ can sit on the sidelines and watch them get reamed.

And no a Wizard is not a gimped Enchanter. A wizards DD's are far superior in every way. More damage, and no refresh. Enchanters have nice dmg'ing spells no doubt. But they are incomparable to that of a Wizard. Dimentia I think is an Enchanters best damaging spell hitting for 675 max, with an 8 second refresh timer and a 6 second casting time. Sunstrike is the Wizards highest damaging spell that has a 7 second cast time and only 2.25 second refresh timer and hits for 1615 damage. It's not even close.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was consistently on top of parses in my guild on live. The only other threat to me was another Wiz that I was RL friends with.

Are you talking in group experience situations or raid?

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you talking in group experience situations or raid?

Raid, and it wasn't on every fight. Some fights are tailored for some DPS more than others. And Wizards aren't the best DPS for every fight, I realize that. But to say they are the most worthless as a DPS class is showing a moderate lack of EQ IQ