Best setup for rogue end game

[commongood]

Hey there,

I tried a cursory search but didn't find a thread that matched so here I go. Apologies as this has probably been discussed before:

I am trying to figure out what the ideal setup of weapons and weapon-application for an end game rogue is.

From what I have heard it is basically Mrylokar's Dagger of Vengeance and one of either Vyemm's Fang or Claw of Lightning. Can anyone elaborate a bit on why fang or claw is the prefered partner weapon for Vulak dagger?

And then also, I have heard that having a lower delay weapon in the main hand is preferable for "high AC targets" even though it means lower backstabs because you get an increase in white hits. This would mean putting Vulak dagger in off hand and vyemm fang / claw of lightning in main hand. Can anyone elaborate on whether this is correct or not? And which are these "high AC" targets aside from Avatar of War?

*EDIT: I am looking up AC values on the wiki and they seem... interesting. Anyone know if those are reliable? According to the wiki AoW has 900 AC and Eashen of the Sky has 1057. I thought AoW was basically the highest AC mob in the game

[Jimjam]

I've had an epic rogue, including levelling one to 60, but it is not a class I've heavily engaged in. So, I'll summarise what I've read from forum posters who have more extensive / critical raid rogue experience. Rather than explain why fang or claw is the better offhander, I'll offer what was suggested in a thread regarding Claw of Lightning vs Ragebringer (rogue epic):

Use Mrylokar or Vyemm and Epic.

Why? Less than twenty percent of rogue dps is from the offhand ergo the epic ATK boost on primary (over 80% of your damage) will be more productive overall. It is also said you want a Primal spear if you're 'serious'.

Hope this helps.

[Goregasmic]

This recent thread went over all this:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=442240

[commongood]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This recent thread went over all this:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=442240

Thanks so much. I actually did skim that thread but it got derailed fairly quickly. It also was aimed specifically at how to compare Claw of Lightning in the off hand with Ragebringer. It seems pretty incredible that the significantly longer delay (Fang 17, Caw 18, Ragebringer 25) is compensated for by the +40 ATK from Ragebringer.

So that leaves us with two questions:

a) Which is preferable in the offhand between Vyemm's Fang and Claw of Lightning (my original question)?

b) Is Ragebringer better than either of Claw of Lightning, Vyemm's Fang or really any alternative in the offhand?

And just to be crystal clear, I am interested only in how much dps output is reached. Stats of each item is not important for this specific inquiry and we should assume 41% is achieved elsewhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Perhaps more people can weigh in with their experiences?

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by commongood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks so much. I actually did skim that thread but it got derailed fairly quickly. It also was aimed specifically at how to compare Claw of Lightning in the off hand with Ragebringer. It seems pretty incredible that the significantly longer delay (Fang 17, Caw 18, Ragebringer 25) is compensated for by the +40 ATK from Ragebringer.

So that leaves us with two questions:

a) Which is preferable in the offhand between Vyemm's Fang and Claw of Lightning (my original question)?

b) Is Ragebringer better than either of Claw of Lightning, Vyemm's Fang or really any alternative in the offhand?

And just to be crystal clear, I am interested only in how much dps output is reached. Stats of each item is not important for this specific inquiry and we should assume 41% is achieved elsewhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Perhaps more people can weigh in with their experiences?

Theres a couple of good nuggets of info toward the end of the thread, worth skipping over the usual shitposters. I don't play rogue so I'm not going to pretend I know anything about them but it seems like ragebringer offhand stats/effect cannot be matched by anything else while there are better options for mainhand. RB is kinda slow for a mainhand but it doesn't matter offhand and nothing else will give you 20str and 40atk, basically "supporting" your mainhand. As lostfaction mentioned in that thread, OH is ~20% of your damage so optimizing OH is not worth losing all that atk applied to MH.

That seems to be the TL;DR, I'll let the knowledgeable people chime in with the specifics.

[Snaggles]

Here is another thread showing maximum backstab (off disc) and reasoning why a speedy MH is often better. 15/25 is a horrible MH ratio, a Vyemm Fang for example is roughly 25% better as a MH ratio. Using a Mryo or Tunare however doesn’t drop your backstab performance range while also increasing swing dps:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=435397

In general the principle is the same for all dps melees:
Upgrade MH or get a primal (which is likely a ratio upgrade)
Get the other thing
Optimize your offhand
All the while getting the right buffs, a bard group, and actually trying

Not all but many tryhards with a CoL are swapping in the epic for backstabs losing no swing speed but picking up the attack power prior to mashing the button. If statically keeping the CoL in the offhand it’s less of an upgrade. While the Ragebringer is a lumpy ratio so much of a rogues dps comes from the MH that tweaking the last 30’ish percent factor is less of a priority.

Rogues looking to upgrade the offhand before the Mh could benefit from a CoL but it wouldn’t be my priority unless you really adore the claw look over optimizing a parse. Or it’s super cheap and the stars align when bidding.

(Note: I haven’t played a rogue since live snd defer to p99 rogues…)

[Cecily]

Not sure why it's so hard for people to get this concept, but Mrylo + Epic or Vyemm + Epic and primal spear/AoB x 3 + 10th ring / VOG / CoTP / SoN / 255 Str at Lv 60 is a maxed DPS rogue. Bard, too, but they're not used for DPS much anymore. Everquest is good at providing an illusion of choice, but pick one of those two setups if you'd like to parse well.

[kjs86z2]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure why it's so hard for people to get this concept, but Mrylo + Epic or Vyemm + Epic and primal spear/AoB x 3 + 10th ring / VOG / CoTP / SoN / 255 Str at Lv 60 is a maxed DPS rogue. Bard, too, but they're not used for DPS much anymore. Everquest is good at providing an illusion of choice, but pick one of those two setups if you'd like to parse well.

ayup

also bringing worts / other clicks will increase your dps on a lot of fights way more than marginal differences in gear

velious was beaten in kunark gear, there is no reason to be swapping out epic

[Cecily]

Maybe the real DPS upgrade was the resist gear we found along the way.

[kjs86z2]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe the real DPS upgrade was the resist gear we found along the way.

amen - if i were a serious rogue id have all the petals too....but i think the days of competitive engages where you don't have every buff all the time are gone