Warrior Kick / Monk Flying Kick / Rogue Backstab Calculation

[Namsaknoi]

I am posting here instead of bug forum because I'm not trying to dispute or request changes but just to discuss if I am calculating correctly

For delay, I just used stopwatch to time the refresh timer with all haste items and buffs/songs removed, on P99, don't think they differ on live, and there could be latency discrepancy since general consensus for Backstab delay seem to be '10 sec' whereas I have it at 10.5

Is below correct?

Warrior Kick
Damage:5
Delay: 85 (8.5sec)
Max Damage: (Kick skill 210 + Strength 255)/100 * damage 5 = 23.25, rounded down to 23
Have chance to stun after 55

Monk Flying Kick
Damage: 30
Delay: 90 (9.0sec)
Max Damage: (Flying Kick skill 225 + Strength 255)/100 * damage 30 = 144.00
With Inner Fire it is 288, Thunderkick is somewhere in low 200s, not quite double but somewhere half way up similar to other critical hits (but not crippling blow or deadly strike)

Rogue Backstab
Delay: 105 (10.5sec)
Base Damage: Weapon damage 15 * (2+(Backstab skill 225 * 0.02))+ Damage bonus (Level 60 - 25)/3 = 109.17
Max Damage Multiplier: ((Piercing 252 + Strength 255)/100) * Base Damage = 553.48, rounded down to 553
Double Attack is applied after 55
On P99 it seem to be somewhere south of 530, and 500+ damage happens rarely, but I remember rogues having 553, or 1106 with Duelist, or 1106 + 1106 for Duelist + Double Attack on their signature was the trend at that time until 16 damage piercer appeared late Luclin, and max damage happened rather frequently on live

Some side notes:
Monk 1hb/2hb/h2h skill cap was 252/252/246, not 252/252/252, h2h increased to 252 late Velious
Rogue piercing/1hs/1hb cap was 252/250/240, not 250/250/250, 1hb increased to 250 in PoP
Warrior weapon skill caps are correct on P99

Max damage calculation should use weapon skills instead of Offense skill for calculation, and no '-75' applies, there seem to be some debate on Game Mechanics section and currently accepted is 'Offense skill' + 'no -75', but this should be incorrect. Offense should only count towards atk calculation, while weapon skill counts towards max damage calculation as well as atk calculation, which would also be more logical

[zelld52]

[Tue Jan 09 09:39:01 2024] You backstab Derakor the Vindicator for 1106 points of damage.

[zelld52]

Your numbers are right. Max backstab is 553. With duelist, Max backstab is 1106.

[Namsaknoi]

Woa thanks for quick reply, your log is from P99? Haven't played for awhile but I remember when playing a couple years ago when grinding days and days and hours and hours with 255 str and max skills I don't think I ever saw 553 on P99. Just a ton of the min backstab 120 damage which was far more frequent than what I remember on live.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Namsaknoi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Woa thanks for quick reply, your log is from P99? Haven't played for awhile but I remember when playing a couple years ago when grinding days and days and hours and hours with 255 str and max skills I don't think I ever saw 553 on P99. Just a ton of the min backstab 120 damage which was far more frequent than what I remember on live.

Wouldn't the specific mob and level difference between you and the mob have a lot of impact on this/the RNG?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wouldn't the specific mob and level difference between you and the mob have a lot of impact on this/the RNG?

Mob ac/attack is very differently tuned on p99.

On live basically nothing (except AoW?) had an AC of 600+ until Plane of Tactics. And even then it was just that one zone.

[Namsaknoi]

Luclin also had a lot of 'stone' mobs that had high ac also and yea it got more serious during PoP, but you will eventually log one of your 553 after a few fights. On P99 the cap seem to be somewhere in 510s or 520s and it happens really rare, almost screenshot worthy, double backstabs with identical damage is also very rare on P99, my assumption is zelld52's log line is just manually typed humor to show 1106.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by Namsaknoi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Luclin also had a lot of 'stone' mobs that had high ac also and yea it got more serious during PoP, but you will eventually log one of your 553 after a few fights. On P99 the cap seem to be somewhere in 510s or 520s and it happens really rare, almost screenshot worthy, double backstabs with identical damage is also very rare on P99, my assumption is zelld52's log line is just manually typed humor to show 1106.

1106 is definitely possible under duelist. I parsed my logs looking for the top backstab a while back and that was the max. I have never witnessed a double 1106 though. I want to see one; I even started offering a plat bounty to my guildmates if they can get a double 1106 on a raid target since March and nobody has tried to collect yet.

[7thGate]

If the numbers from my logs are representative (which they could not be for various reasons), it would be something like a 1/500 for a backstab attack to do max damage. With about 1.6 backstabs average per attempt and 3 backstabs per duelist, you end up with about a 1% chance of having a max damage backstab when you use duelist, so most rogues will get one eventually if they've played for a while and are duelisting frequently.

Getting double backstabs needs you to do 2x 1 in 500 chances at the same time, and also pass the ~60% double attack check. That's something like 1 in 416,000 attempts; its possible that has never happened on this server, or only a few times.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the numbers from my logs are representative (which they could not be for various reasons), it would be something like a 1/500 for a backstab attack to do max damage. With about 1.6 backstabs average per attempt and 3 backstabs per duelist, you end up with about a 1% chance of having a max damage backstab when you use duelist, so most rogues will get one eventually if they've played for a while and are duelisting frequently.

Getting double backstabs needs you to do 2x 1 in 500 chances at the same time, and also pass the ~60% double attack check. That's something like 1 in 416,000 attempts; its possible that has never happened on this server, or only a few times.

Limiting my parse to just one rogue I know to be meticulous about getting buffed and only parsed at 60: he had 948 backstabs that were 553 or 1106 out of 54123 attempts (including misses); that's 1 in 57. If you throw out mobs that you can't 553 I wonder if he would get to 1 in 50, but I don't have the patience to do that right now. So maybe more like 1 in 5,000 duelists for the top rogues to get a 2x1106 double backstab.