Necromancer or Enchanter - dungeon charming?

[Bristlebaner]

I'm at a crossroads currently. I have both a necro and enchanter in the mid 40s. I would like to focus on one, but looking for some insight.

I enjoy charming, which is certainly the enchanter's best attribute. I also enjoy being lazy sometimes and fear kiting or just FD when the doorbell rings mid fight (+1 for necro)

That being said, I have heard necro's can charm sufficiently at higher levels (My highest necro on live was 54 and I never used charm). How would a necro compare to an enchanter in HS? I'm probably more concerned with being able to get to the good loot in dungeons than for XP grind purposes. Can a necro solo in the hole? sebilis? I feel like without sufficient undead it really puts the breaks on necro dungeon crawling.

[Tecmos Deception]

The gist of it is this: a necro can charm for loot in most of the same dungeons a chanter can, but it takes a lot more effort, finesse, and luck to do it.

The necro does probably have superior XPing tools though, and better tools for farming lower-level stuff or killing a single tough mob in a zone where the chanter can't get a decent pet to work with.

[Crawdad]

Originally Posted by Bristlebaner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm at a crossroads currently. I have both a necro and enchanter in the mid 40s. I would like to focus on one, but looking for some insight.

I enjoy charming, which is certainly the enchanter's best attribute. I also enjoy being lazy sometimes and fear kiting or just FD when the doorbell rings mid fight (+1 for necro)

That being said, I have heard necro's can charm sufficiently at higher levels (My highest necro on live was 54 and I never used charm). How would a necro compare to an enchanter in HS? I'm probably more concerned with being able to get to the good loot in dungeons than for XP grind purposes. Can a necro solo in the hole? sebilis? I feel like without sufficient undead it really puts the breaks on necro dungeon crawling.

From what I've seen, the 'good loot' soloers can be summed up as (Shaman)>Enchanter>Necro, with the drawbacks being (Price tag)>Wet paper bag>fewer 'good loot' camps.

You can rake in cash with any of them and dungeon crawl with any of them, but they'll make you curse for different reasons.

Ench and Necro are both very fun and powerful classes, but if all you want to do is solo 'good loot' camps and do crazy things, I'd say Ench is the way to go (and to also read/watch anything and everything Tecmos posts).

[Tecmos Deception]

I always take issue with chanters being called stuff like "wet paper bag" because while they don't have a bunch of actual HP or the ability to heal, they have all kinds of tools to entirely avoid damage except when really pushing the extreme of what can be solod (like emperor in seb or shit that hits for 300 and is really magic resistant in velious, etc).

Getting summoned by typical 51-55 stuff that hits for like 160 and only resists 1 in 3 spells after tash is no biggie when you've got 1000 hp in runes and multiple ae stuns that cast nearly instantly and AE mez and whatnot, especially if you're wealthy enough to use consumables like WC hats and wands of allure and shaman potions when needed to ensure you don't lose a named kill.

I'm behind the times though. I haven't played at high end since some changes to AC and pets and resists, and I haven't spent any time (except on beta server) in the higher Velious zones.


But back on point, I agree overall with Crawdad.

[Bristlebaner]

That all sounds fair.

If only going AFK was easier on ench [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Bristlebaner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That all sounds fair.

If only going AFK was easier on ench [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It isn't too bad really. It just depends on you knowing the zone/area you're in very well.

Know the safe spots, and you can go there and AFK or log knowing you won't log back in to death. Know paths and spawn locations and respawn time, and you can AFK safely right on top of a camp (at least for a while). Know what sees invis and doesn't, and you can use improved invis for a safe afk period. Know what sees invis and doesn't, and you can log off in a spot where when you come back in invis/IVU you'll still be ok. Etc.

Not as convenient as casting feign and wandering off for an indefinite period of time... but not TOO bad.

[Llodd]

Id say anywhere other than hs south\east chanter will do better. When the shit hits the fan and you're dealing with summoners popping that DA and (trying to) FD at a safe spot is worth its weight in gold.

Still haven't got round to trying solo otw to crypt as nec. Tons of undead down there.

Hole undead tower is rough as hell. Those undead have ridiculously high resists. Charm breaks constantly. But in the city its viable.

Being able to summon and rez yourself is really nice if you like going full crazy.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Tecmos Deception]

I'd love to see a video of a necro doing work in south or east! There's always a few necros who post and say they've done it, but I've never seen anyone doing it.

DA and FD isn't going to work better against summoners in HS than a chanter could, anyways. Chanter is just going to keep everything fettered nonstop and when charm breaks, even if both pet and mob you want dead are summoners, you just run forwards while burning their summon timers, then you have 6 seconds or so to get them both mezzed before they can summon again. Then you can reroot both, recharm pet, mez enemy again so that it doesn't summon you before pet re-engages, resume fight as normal. What's a necro do? Run out of melees like chanter does then feign and reset fight from the beginning? Run out and try to ST both of them before their summon timers are up again, then try to get 2 PEs and charm cast before the first ST wears off?

[Bristlebaner]

That's my conundrum. I feel like necros lack key tools to manage these situations.

If I want to solo something as simple as LGuk live side - doubt 49 pet can tank super effectively and if I pull 2-3 mobs I will likely lose pet and end up resetting.

Or let's say I want to hunt in Velious. Not many undead mobs. Pet tanking is fail with a necro 50+.

[Llodd]

Well I guess it mustn't be true.

I phrased it wrong. When you're dealing with lvl51+ mobs (not all are) trying to break a room and you get a critical resist and 3+ mobs come at you all with HT's, necro is going to survive more often than a chanter (then you have yourself a tricky CR). Even in north and west with cha gear those crit resists are a thing, though obviously not as frequent. You can even send in a regular pet whilst fd to burn those HT's , something a chanter cant do. For sure in normal fighting situations chanter will fare better, but ime shit happens , you get stunned, spells get interrupted or resisted and before you know it you're dead. It's nice to have that measure of safety to fall back on. FYI necro mez has a recast timer so you cant do what youre suggesting. You'd be better off mezing the pet, other will already be rooted and likely dotted including necro HoT dot which will give you some breathing room, and after 2nd summons charm mezed with enslave. But tbh, its just easier to reset. Unless you're just super amazing as a chanter and/or use a ton of clickies you're going to die, and even if you're super amazing, you're still going to die, eventually! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're looking to go exploring the dangerous places Bristlebaner, like I said, chanter is the way to go. Just bare in mind velious isnt all that great to chanters either. MR was upped on alot of mobs and mez/charm immune giants if you wanted to go deep into kael.