Game Mechanics: Hide not breaking from bard songs or beneficial spells

[Ele]

Issue: Hide currently does not break due to bard songs or being casted upon. Detrimental spells will break hide, but even beneficial spells should break it as well.

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=2855
Last edit: 3/31/00 2:58:05 pm

From the Safehouse guide to sneak and hide:

List of reasons hide will break
Bard Song
Area of Effect (AOE) Spells
Someone casts a spell on you
Looting a corpse
Dealing with a merchant/banker
Successful Instill Doubt
Pickpocket (success OR fail)
Zoning or logging out


Bonus:
List of Creatures That Can See Through Hide
Dragons (Vox and Nagafen)
Fire Giants
Scorn Banshees
Lichs
Loathing Lichs
Evil Eyes
Huge Elemental (Lower Guk)

[knix]

Ele, something else that needs fixed imo

today there was a See invis dog at the entrance of KC. One was pulled so there was only one. I was sneak/hide with sow, went all the way to the wall on the other side, and there was no aggo until i got to the side of him. Not the front, but the SIDE.

Seems like the agro range on the dogs in KC is too big, or Sneak isnt working as its suppose to.

also did you notice your thread you are quoting, does not mention any kunark mobs, there for its out of date as to where we are now in the "classic EQ" experience.

Please find post kunark verification of said bug before you submit it for consideration please.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by knix [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ele, something else that needs fixed imo

today there was a See invis dog at the entrance of KC. One was pulled so there was only one. I was sneak/hide with sow, went all the way to the wall on the other side, and there was no aggo until i got to the side of him. Not the front, but the SIDE.

Seems like the agro range on the dogs in KC is too big, or Sneak isnt working as its suppose to.

Sneak only protects you from detection in a cone that protrudes from the back of the mob. If you go outside that cone then the mob will be able to detect you, such as the side or the front.

Fraps here http://youtu.be/QrI0Z5hGolg demonstrating the front, side, and back cone close up and from a bit of a distance. The skeleton was rooted by another person, so that I could get up close enough without achieving aggro (not classic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ).


Sneak is also supposed to reduce aggro range, so it is something to test. Tested sneak aggro reduction radius by rooting a skeleton in Dreadland (rotting skeleton PH to be exact). Will try some non-undead next time I get a chance.

Fraps located here, warning over 3 minutes long: http://youtu.be/rHPuTAUtgr4

Method:
Root the mob.
Atone and successfully mem blur (notice it returns to face original position)
Apply a good sneak
Slowly inch up to the mob, which is rooted, until aggro is achieved while using sneak.
Back up and memblur the mob (returns to face original position)
Slowly inch up to the mob, still rooted, until aggro is achieved without sneaking.
Back up, mem blur, and apply a good sneak again.

The locations at which aggro was achieved were 2228.25, -5173.4 (sneak); 2229.08, -5172.35 (no sneak); and 2228.31, -5173.19 (sneak). Effectively, sneak did not reduce the aggro range, at least to this undead mob.

also did you notice your thread you are quoting, does not mention any kunark mobs, there for its out of date as to where we are now in the "classic EQ" experience.

Please find post kunark verification of said bug before you submit it for consideration please.

The bug reports section isn't limited in scope to the current era of the server. It needs to be implemented on any future servers, and should be considered for implementation in the current time frame.

If hide/sneak worked in this manner before Kunark, then without a patch message or other guide listing a change, then it is safe to assume it continued in such a manner. Additionally considering that this is from the Safehouse Library, if the mechanic changed greatly, the safe assumption is that the thread would have been updated.

[Cecily]

Assassinate only procs on unengaged mobs atm. It should just be a normal proc effect and work in groups. Get that fixed and I may forgive you for my upcoming bard deaths.

[Ambrotos]

Add in when you bind wound people, it should share hate also.

[knix]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sneak only protects you from detection in a cone that protrudes from the back of the mob. If you go outside that cone then the mob will be able to detect you, such as the side or the front.

Fraps here http://youtu.be/QrI0Z5hGolg demonstrating the front, side, and back cone close up and from a bit of a distance. The skeleton was rooted by another person, so that I could get up close enough without achieving aggro (not classic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ).

The mob was rooted by someone else, so it had hate on them, the player's feet were in the sample. The mobs hate toward the rooter was greater than your proximity hate, right?, you didn't show when he mob would aggo you. My observance was that I was running facing the mob, was almost behind him when he aggroed me, In the fraps , you were clearly on the side of the mob, and he did not turn to look at you. I would be curious for more testing without a rooted mob, or with a mob that was similarly rooted (like your followup test) but had no hate directed at a player.


One other thing i wanted to say, is the reason why this is noticeable more now is because of the sneak hide nerf from the last patch. Before I would have never noticed the dog noticing me, cause He wouldn't see me.

I also thought rooted mobs behaved differently than mobs that are just aimlessly looking around.

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sneak is also supposed to reduce aggro range, so it is something to test.

The locations at which aggro was achieved were 2228.25, -5173.4 (sneak); 2229.08, -5172.35 (no sneak); and 2228.31, -5173.19 (sneak). Effectively, sneak did not reduce the aggro range, at least to this undead mob..

I think you are saying that sneak did not reduce aggro range. Something different in this test is that yes the mob was rooted but, there was no current hate being directed at a player.

[Sarkhan]

Pretty sure bard songs and beneficial buffs didn't knock you out of hide with release of kunark.

http://teir-dal.tripod.com/id47.html

2.7. What can knock me out of hiding?

Spells and bard songs cast on you will no longer knock you out of hiding unless they are cast by mobs or enemy players in PvP.

Looting corpses (even your own) will also knock you out of hiding, so greed can get you killed if the area is not clear. When trying to recover your own corpse, use the /corpse command to drag your body to a safer spot before looting. Dragging corpses will not ruin your hide.

Picking Pockets and Disarming Traps will also ruin your hide, so be careful!

[Ele]

Originally Posted by knix [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The mob was rooted by someone else, so it had hate on them, the player's feet were in the sample. The mobs hate toward the rooter was greater than your proximity hate, right?, you didn't show when he mob would aggo you. My observance was that I was running facing the mob, was almost behind him when he aggroed me, In the fraps , you were clearly on the side of the mob, and he did not turn to look at you. I would be curious for more testing without a rooted mob, or with a mob that was similarly rooted (like your followup test) but had no hate directed at a player.

I purposely used a mob that was aggroed on another player to show where the cone was. Notice the change in /con from indifferent to scowls as I moved back and forth outside of its cone. This test was not about gaining aggro. Plus you do not gain aggro via proximity when the mob is already aggroed on someone else (not classic).

One other thing i wanted to say, is the reason why this is noticeable more now is because of the sneak hide nerf from the last patch. Before I would have never noticed the dog noticing me, cause He wouldn't see me.

I also thought rooted mobs behaved differently than mobs that are just aimlessly looking around.




I think you are saying that sneak did not reduce aggro range. Something different in this test is that yes the mob was rooted but, there was no current hate being directed at a player.

They were two different tests trying to show different things.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Sarkhan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty sure bard songs and beneficial buffs didn't knock you out of hide with release of kunark.

http://teir-dal.tripod.com/id47.html

2.7. What can knock me out of hiding?

This is a link to the Rogue FAQ (separate from the hide/sneak faq linked in OP) at the Safehouse and it contains conflicting statements one supporting the OP and the other supporting the modification. So there appears to have been a change at some point between 3/31/00 and 07/27/2001. Either way this should be implemented for any new server that comes about, and potentially blue/red depending on when the change was actually implemented.

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=2865

Last Update: July 27th, 2001

...

2.4.1 What can knock me out of hiding?
Your own party members are the biggest risk here. Any spell cast upon you, beneficial or otherwise will knock you out of hiding. This can be extremely dangerous when scouting. A Bard's songs can be a Rogue's worst enemy when sneaking! When scouting for your party, let your group know to not cast on you or use bard songs. Other player's spells can also knock you out of hiding.

Spells and bard songs cast on you will no longer knock you out of hiding unless they are cast by mobs or enemy players in PvP.

Looting corpses (even your own) will also knock you out of hiding, so greed can get you killed if the area is not clear. When trying to recover your own corpse, use the /corpse command to drag your body to a safer spot before looting. Dragging corpses will not ruin your hide.

Picking Pockets and Disarming Traps will also ruin your hide, so be careful!

...

Edited by: Shadowcross at: 7/27/01 7:25:17 am

[knix]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I purposely used a mob that was aggroed on another player to show where the cone was. Notice the change in /con from indifferent to scowls as I moved back and forth outside of its cone. This test was not about gaining aggro. Plus you do not gain aggro via proximity when the mob is already aggroed on someone else (not classic).





They were two different tests trying to show different things.

Ele, i couldnt read the con messages, they were all fuzzy.

but tell me, how come the mob didn't swing at you when you were sneak mode up to it, i know if i get anywhere next to a rooted mob when i am on my druid (1/2 elf no sneak no hide) I get beat on,the mob will turn based on proximity and beat the crap out of me