Players will always compete for raid mobs; the point of contention is the rules

[Splorf22]

So within 15 minutes of reading the 'VP trains' thread I wanted to stab a pencil in my eye. What is driving me fucking crazy about all these threads is the unceasing barrage of "you don't want to compete" straw men. It is a plague of Biblical proportions. And there is no question that they are straw men. For example, FE in the thread in question wants to end training in VP, because, you know, it's not classic (not to mention stupid). Would prohibiting trains reduce the competition in VP? Not at all. In fact by any reasonable measure competition would increase because more people would show up to play. And they would race for FTE in exactly the same way as they do in other zones.

Suppose for example that Rogean began giving out two tokens per week to guilds to spawn whichever bosses they want. This idea has been proposed before, and the usual troglodyte response is "YOU CAREBEAR YOU WANT RAID MOBS HANDED TO YOU HAHAHA WHAT A LOSER". Of course, a deeper glance reveals intense competition. The smaller you can make your guild to successfully kill raid targets, the more pixels per person you'll get. What has changed is the form of the competition: rather than 24/7 zergs the goal is a tight crew that can kill with very small numbers.

The current form of said competition is: spend on average 48 hours mashing the track button, batphone everyone in the middle of the night, train the zone around (and the other raid if you can get away with it), and zerg down the boss because if we try to do anything that involves strategy we'll be too slow. The same 'it's competition' logic used by its defenders would apply to two retards wrestling in a pile of cow dung. Obviously it's competition, but it's also dumb competition.

TL;DR: There will be competition regardless of what rules are selected, so lets select rules that aren't fucking retarded

The other point that is driving me nuts is the staff's relative indifference to the whole business. We were promised simultaneous repops almost a YEAR ago. I know Rogean has a job that sucks up his time. I know Nilbog looks at this as the beta server and mostly cares about replicating classic Everquest. I know Sirken just wants to see a bunch of people fight over virtual pixels for some reason. So get another programmer. This whole community is a bunch of nerds. There will be someone willing to put in 5 hours a week to implement some new ideas for the raid scene. There are tons of easy ones to try: enable PVP while the bosses are up. Simultaneous repops. Tokens. Automatic train detection code. None of those are some sort of carebear 'deposit the pixels into my bank account every Friday' kind of thing. They are just better forms of competition than we have now.

I'm guessing over 50% of your population has a raid-level toon or close to it. The vast majority of the players on this server think the raid scene sucks; the only people defending it are a relative few who benefit from the rules, not because of any sort of skill or knowledge, but because they are willing to play more and willing to step on other people more. And most infuriatingly, we have a server where the compass is removed because its not classic, but we have unclassic variance and Rogean specifically saying that they allow trains in VP because it saves them time.

TL;DR: FFS admit that you have a problem, and get a new programmer to fix it

Alright, I'm done. in b4 'u mad bro' and 'you don't want to compete' and all of the other idiocies that so many trolls here are so impressed by.

[Sarius]

Will not happen unfortunately as long as Sirken is at the helm. No offense to him whatsoever.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I blame Tupac

[kylok]

The raid scene is the way it is, like the sky is blue. For now, as far as we know, nothing is going to change that. The way I see it you non TMO people have two options

A) Beat TMO at their own game
B) Cry in a corner

Complaining on the forums gets you nowhere.

[Langrisser]

i blame LAPD officer David Mack, former bank robber and now released millionaire and blood gang member.

also, ill never see VP so i want it to be miserable for those that do. that is your cross to bear for uberness. fuck u neckbeardians.

[Aaron]

I agree with everything you said. But it's gonna devolve pretty quickly into a thread we've already seen hundreds of times. Intelligent discussion of problems is frowned upon here.

[Nlaar]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There will be competition regardless of what rules are selected, so lets select rules that aren't fucking retarded

yup.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And most infuriatingly, we have a server where the compass is removed because its not classic, but we have unclassic variance and Rogean specifically saying that they allow trains in VP because it saves them time.

and yup.

[Galvatar]

Originally Posted by kylok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The raid scene is the way it is, like the sky is blue. For now, as far as we know, nothing is going to change that. The way I see it you non TMO people have two options

A) Beat TMO at their own game
B) Cry in a corner

Complaining on the forums gets you nowhere.

Nobody is "crying", or "mad". I saw a well thought out, well written post above yours. You responded with the typical troll counter.

That's what happened there.

[Tiggles]

I didn't read any of this thread but any rule change may stop me as a TMO member from getting as much loot for my alts I will veto it.

[kylok]

I wasn't saying anyone was mad or crying. Regardless of any arguments the options are beat TMO at their own game or be beaten by TMO. Not making a troll post just pointing out the reality of this situation.