VP

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you are two independent guilds (see, guild tags) but you are one raiding guild (see, tracking/killing/lootawarding).

I never said you weren't two different guilds, but when it comes to a raiding agreement you should have been treated as one raiding guild.

Why? We are capable of killing Trak ourselves uncontested (I.e. in a rotation). Otherwise, if you leave VD out of the rotation, the only way for us to get Trak is to outmobilize another guild. And its not going to be the guild we have a partnership with. Which means TMO goes back to poopsocking and TR gets Trak free and clear during their turn? LOL?

[Paumad]

No, it means that when competing, you're treated as one. Earning a slot in a rotation is usually after said competition, which you haven't done as VD only(not saying you're not competing with your partnership). Therefore you should still be killing trak within your partner's turn and not your own.
Nobody is saying VD can't kill targets, but you don't really see how clearly easy you're getting it.

[Szeth]

Like Fauss said, this is simply trolling. The leaderships behind both guilds came to this agreement already.

Are you challenging your leaders' decisions Fauss?

[Paumad]

Originally Posted by Szeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you challenging your leaders' decisions Fauss?

I occupy guildchat everyday, aren't you?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why? We are capable of killing Trak ourselves uncontested (I.e. in a rotation). Otherwise, if you leave VD out of the rotation, the only way for us to get Trak is to outmobilize another guild. And its not going to be the guild we have a partnership with. Which means TMO goes back to poopsocking and TR gets Trak free and clear during their turn? LOL?

Yes, you can kill trak uncontested (no doubt Taken, BDA and Divinity could as well), however, you do not currently qualify as an individual raiding guild. The only time you guys killed Trakanon is when TR and TMO were forced to sit it out. You had all the time in the world. You've held hands with TR/IB for trakanon for a reason. Why? because you don't think you can out mobilize TR or TMO on your own, that is why VD never chose to try before.

So, if we leave VD out of the rotation, the only ways for you to get trakanon is the way you do currently, holding hands with the other half of your raiding guild, or to actually stand as an individual raiding guild and go for trakanon against TMO or IB.

You are looking at it as if you and TR/IB are different raiding guilds, you aren't.

Basically, by your own words, the only way VD would get trakanon, if you weren't in the rotation, is if they stand on their own.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Szeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like Fauss said, this is simply trolling. The leaderships behind both guilds came to this agreement already.

Are you challenging your leaders' decisions Fauss?

no one is challenging anything, i'm simply stating facts. I for one don't care if VD gets a turn at trakanon, as long as they do it solo.

I just find it humorous that VD thinks they are an individual raiding guild, it would be as if IB called themselves an individual raiding guild.

Currently if any person were to app to VD or to IB they would effectively be raiding with both guilds on a weekly basis (you've been doing this for months, it's more than a one night stand). Thus, VD/IB is currently one raiding guild.

Grats on your extra trak IVBD

[Rais]

VD doesn't have the numbers or people willing to camp out 40+ people at 1 spot for a two day period. So yes, you are right. We don't have the people willing to do this and it effects our mobilizations in beating two guilds who have people willing to do this. This isn't some big secret as to how or why any agreement between TR and VD came about.

Taken,BDA or Divnity can't kill trak. Maybe if they all worked together I think they could. They simply don't have the numbers or right classes to do it on their own.

This is the same reason DA/VD held hands before Kunark. Raid content neither guild could have done on their own. It's also the same reason why DA and TMO merged. Each guild couldn't do it on their own and had to merg to challenge with TR.

[Paumad]

You still fail to see the point. I agree on the need to bring two guilds against one for the sake of competing. It is all fair game. But the key word here is merging. Thing that you haven't done, yet are mimicking. You can't compare a merged guild to two guilds. We're not taking two rounds of rotation are we?

We agreed on it, but don't expect us to like it when by your own words you don't have enough people willing to force your own way into that rotation.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VD doesn't have the numbers or people willing to camp out 40+ people at 1 spot for a two day period. So yes, you are right. We don't have the people willing to do this and it effects our mobilizations in beating two guilds who have people willing to do this. This isn't some big secret as to how or why any agreement between TR and VD came about.

I didn't make out like it was a secret, I was just restating a known fact.

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Taken,BDA or Divnity can't kill trak. Maybe if they all worked together I think they could. They simply don't have the numbers or right classes to do it on their own.

Hmm, maybe you're right on this one. I've seen BDA out mobilize TR on fay so i was mostly throwing them a bone. Taken has done some nice things in the past and had some large showings, but i am by no means up to par on their membership status. As far as Divinity, if they had all their members still playing, I suppose they could, but recently I haven't seen many of them online. So most likely, I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the same reason DA/VD held hands before Kunark. Raid content neither guild could have done on their own. It's also the same reason why DA and TMO merged. Each guild couldn't do it on their own and had to merg to challenge with TR.

The main thing to point on on this last part, is that there has never been a raid agreement before where 2 guilds competed as 1. In all honestly, both guilds should have been treated as one due to the fact they have, over the course of the last 2 months, raided as 1 guild. The only slight difference is that the "upper tier" part of the raiding guild is only allowed access to VP atm (with this agreement).

Maybe I missed the point of this, but it mostly seems that you are agreeing with me (aside from the taken, bda, divinity part).

[ElanoraBryght]

(Advance apologies for inserting fact into a RnF thread.)
As was already pointed out : if a Trak rotation were put into place that included only TR and TMO, TMO would still have to poopsock.

If that were what the TMO leadership thought best, the agreement would not have been made. No arms were twisted in the making of this rotation.