Alternative to xp loss to prevent bind rushing - Page 8

Pudge · #71 11-06-2011, 04:37 AM

actually. i just thought of that shit on the spot, and think it's a damn good solution to the "zone control" pvp aspect. if you get killed in a zone - perhaps only a RAID zone - you CANNOT enter it for the next 60 minutes. seems like the perfect answer to bind rush for me.

maybe 20 minutes for non-raid zones.

DO IT ROGEAN

DO IT.

Pudge · #72 11-06-2011, 04:38 AM

FOR SRS

oldfish · #73 11-06-2011, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

didn't read thread.

but the only reason for exp loss in my mind is bind rushing.

it is enough of a loss to be killed, ported to bind naked, and lose the pve you were battling over. if there is an alternative to prevent bind rushing (ex: can't enter the zone you died in in for the next 30 minutes (and i mean, SERVER CONTROLLED, no exceptions - unless rezed) that is also a good solution.

I really dont get this bind rushing thing... have any of you guys played on a Zek server? If someone killed you in a zone, you didnt take your shit and run most of the times... It was pvp time. You called for guild backup, you snuck back there and got intel on where the guys were so you could jump em back with your folks... According to you guys its take my shit and run time. Wheres the pvp in your pvp server?

To me when i thought bind rushing, i had in mind some high lvl chanter sitting on a multiple caster bind clarity'ing a bunch of casters who got right back to fukn people up... youre talkin about a single guy zoning in to where his corpse is? Holy blue pvp server Batman!

Pudge · #74 11-06-2011, 04:45 AM

to be honest.. if it's "bind rush till you log off" pvp, then guilds will just zerg chain bind rush till the other side has to log off. which is kinda gay.

it's happened on vztz, i think knuckle was actually a GM at the time, he can tell you about one particular incident which lasted approximately 5 hours. bind in everfrost, rush perma, get killed, repeat

Pudge · #75 11-06-2011, 04:48 AM

making a hard lock-out if you get pvpined in a raid zone will make for real tactical decisions. stay at zone-in? or set up to PvP deep inside?

oldfish · #76 11-06-2011, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

to be honest.. if it's "bind rush till you log off" pvp, then guilds will just zerg chain bind rush till the other side has to log off. which is kinda gay.

it's happened on vztz, i think knuckle was actually a GM at the time, he can tell you about one particular incident which lasted approximately 5 hours. bind in everfrost, rush perma, get killed, repeat

But really, so what? The "rushing" anyway takes about 5-10mins (medding)... thats what Zek servers were like, you should have seen people training the Undead dragon at the rathe mountain zone line at the halloween event in 2001, there was like a hundred corpses at the zone line with that dragon AOEing for like 300+ and people bound behind the zone line getting right back in there killing each other... that was a Zek server. And it was beautiful.

You dont need to log off anyway... you can just move elsewhere.

I dont see how a guild Zerg bind "rushing" a smaller guild, giving them XP loss on top of overwhelming them with a bind "rush" will make things any fairer? At least with no XP loss the smaller guild can try to fight back, even if the odds are against them. With the xp loss system, it feels like whoever has the biggest zerg wins, and youre not supposed to fight back, just pack your shit and leave the area, which is lame to me.

I wasnt part of the raid scene on blue99, but it sounds like a re-hash of the zerg poopsocking that happened over there a year ago.

mostbitter · #77 11-06-2011, 07:44 AM

What really boggles my mind about the proponents of the experience penalty is that they think that a measure which will encourage people to play the game less is somehow healthy for the server. I also don't at all agree with the sentiment that there needs to be an extra penalty for pvp death. You're already losing all your mana, gear, and buffs. This means in order to get back to your full potential you need to med, buff, and run back to your corpse, otherwise you're just fodder.

Furthermore I don't see an experience penalty being a huge deterrant for people who are going to play here. I speak from experiences such as being in plane of fear and watching guilds train each other back and forth for hours on end until one of them finally gave up and went to sleep. I DO expect that this will be an extra mechanic for griefing, as if everquest really needed one more.

I also don't believe that stating in the rules that training is frowned upon will have any legitimate impact on a server where there is not 24/7 gm policing.

My opinion of the experience penalty on death is that it's just extra grief. Most of the time when people die in pvp they are in a dungeon so they are typically running minimally one or two zones back to loot their corpse which equates typically to around 5-10 minutes. Casters will also be forced to med and buff which typically equates to another 10 minutes. If you add experience penalty to death which is the equivalent of the experience you would get for killing one mob you're probably adding another 10 minutes.

Each pvp death with an exp penalty now equates to potentially 30 minutes of downtime IF you are only killed in pvp the one time which I think we can all admit isn't typically the case.

a hypothetical with exp penalty: group A rolls into guk and wants to steal a camp from single player B. A risks nothing and slaughters B. B comes back to loot corpse and A kills him again. B has now lost 40-45 minutes of his time. B has the option of either going back to A to risk another 15-20 minutes or logging off.

a hypothetical without exp penalty: group A rolls into guk and wants to steal a camp from single player B. A risks nothing and slaughters B. B comes back to loot corpse and A kills him again. B has now lost 30-35 minutes of his time. B has the option of either going back to A to risk another 5-10 minutes or logging off.

It's great to assume that experience penalty on death is going to prevent bind rushing (which is typically a non factor anyway as I've personally never seen any large guild who wins a pvp fight die to the guild they just steamrolled coming back with less powerful characters) but I'm certain that the reality will be that the level of grief people experience will just be increased.

Smedy · #78 11-06-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But the point of a PVP server is to pvp. If everybody doesnt fight unless its 5v1, wheres the fun in that? Because i guarantee its what will happen after a while, why would fight when you are getting de-leveled and repeatedly crushed? After a while youll just stop trying and avoid pvp or just stop logging in.

Well part of the fun in exp death is fearing the actual death, the fear of losing something.

It has to feel like shit is on the line for me to get a kick out of the game, if i get rooted 3 minutes, that's bullshit punishment.

If you're going down to gankers you need to play better, there's millions of ways to avoid death in eq and if you're rollin alone, well then you took the hard road.

oldfish · #79 11-06-2011, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smedy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well part of the fun in exp death is fearing the actual death, the fear of losing something.

It has to feel like shit is on the line for me to get a kick out of the game, if i get rooted 3 minutes, that's bullshit punishment.

If you're going down to gankers you need to play better, there's millions of ways to avoid death in eq and if you're rollin alone, well then you took the hard road.

I did explain repeatedly in this thread though that sitting down twiddling your thumbs for 10mins is already punishment, so is walking 2 zones to your corpse, so is losing all the coins on you.

Thats losing something, time, coins. Shit is on the line.

Most of the times it will be gankers going down to you, and of course by 5v1 i mean 8v3 etc etc

Again and again, ive played Rallos for 2 years. I already know that repeated pvp deaths alone in itself is harsh, even for someone as patient as me. I guarantee you players will drop like flies with XP loss.

Sitting on ass for 10mins each time you die is already bad enough without adding on top extra PVE grind. If people are content with a purple "hide n seek" server where a majority of players ducks after the first death, great. I know ill probably get bored quickly.

People will get so irritated that they will train to get back at xp loss they sometimes cant really avoid, im pretty sure, and the rules make it illegal.

Now you have to decide if that guy who died with 4 orcs on his ass was intentionally training or not. (again a reason why i think training should be allowed)

Do you guys realize how long the walk is from Queynos to inside of BlackBurrow? From WFP to Oasis? People waiting at zone lines? Seriously. This XP loss is just lol

I foresee a shitstorm, well see.

Im not trying to come off as irritating or being intentionally polemic, honestly, i really think this is going to hurt the server population.

I want to play here, and i want the server to be fun. Which is why im pushing for this.

If Rogean/other devs say its final, then ill go with it. It seems to be in limbo right now which is why were discussing it.

Lazortag · #80 11-06-2011, 11:27 AM

How about we see if bind rushing is a problem after launch, instead of coming up with solutions to a problem that may not exist before launch. My guess is that it won't be an issue, mostly because this is a classic server and casters will respawn with 0 mana, and training won't be allowed. On top of exp loss this makes bind rushing a very small problem.