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[nalkin]

Simply getting a degree from a mediocre school does not mean much, you have to stand out in someway if you want to advance in your field at all. I mean your not just going to graduate college, get your B.S., hang it on the wall and wait for recruiters to knock on your door saying how much they want you to work for them.

Secondly, you should never go to college out of state for undergrad because instate tuition is very cheap. Couple that with financial aid and work, you can easily complete school with little or no debt. The most expensive part of college is paying for an apartment.

Its funny when people talk about how expensive college is because it really is not at all. Tuition is extremely cheap instate and you can get ALOT of financial aid depending on your situation. Not to mention if you go on to higher education, say a PHD, the grad school will literally give you a salary of ~20k a year on top of paying for your tuition.

Thirdly, you should not major in non-science because for the most part it is a waste.

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by nalkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Simply getting a degree from a mediocre school does not mean much, you have to stand out in someway if you want to advance in your field at all. I mean your not just going to graduate college, get your B.S., hang it on the wall and wait for recruiters to knock on your door saying how much they want you to work for them.

Secondly, you should never go to college out of state for undergrad because instate tuition is very cheap. Couple that with financial aid and work, you can easily complete school with little or no debt. The most expensive part of college is paying for an apartment.

Its funny when people talk about how expensive college is because it really is not at all. Tuition is extremely cheap instate and you can get ALOT of financial aid depending on your situation. Not to mention if you go on to higher education, say a PHD, the grad school will literally give you a salary of ~20k a year on top of paying for your tuition.

Thirdly, you should not major in non-science because for the most part it is a waste.

So you think it's OK to give an 18 year old a $45,000 loan with no reference checks? Banks and the Federal government hand out billions of dollars every year to high school graduates that do not have a job, that do not submit their grades or activities or even taxes and all of which are subsidized

The default rate on those loans has to be astronomical, considering that when the semester refund check comes in the average student is spending $2000+ dollars on parties and video games because there are no stipulations on how that money is spent.

It doesn't matter if a few individuals can make it out with scholarships, grants, and self-payment in cheap schools, it doesn't even compare to the "C" student taking out $45,000 loans every year and maxing them out... They will NEVER be able to pay that shit off no matter the degree.

There are fucking DDS's out there in private practice with over $440,000 in debt at like 16-17% int.rate, yeah they make six figures every year but they'll always be paying off loans

[nalkin]

Originally Posted by God-King Abacab [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't matter if a few individuals can make it out with scholarships, grants, and self-payment in cheap schools, it doesn't even compare to the "C" student taking out $45,000 loans every year and maxing them out... They will NEVER be able to pay that shit off no matter the degree.

But that is their own fault. There are plenty of options to go to school for extremely cheap rates. This is the only point I am trying to make.

1. You can get a ton of grant money if your income is medium-low, which is free money not dependent on your grades. You can get enough to completely cover tuition costs and help or cover room/board costs.
   
2. If you are ambitious you can get scholarship money but that is hard to get.
   
3. You can do 2 years at community college for extremely cheap rates, then transfer in to a good school. 2 years at comm college will not hurt your future and transferring into a good school is 100x easier than getting accepted to that school straight out of highschool.

The point is college is an extremely good investment if you make it a good investment. The typical person can get in and out with little debt quite easily and and major in a sound field like: math, chemistry, engineering, physics, etc. No one is preventing you from picking whatever major you want, so someone choosing a liberal arts subject is making that choice knowing his degree will largely be worthless. Likewise, a person who takes out globs of loans is doing so under their own choice since there are much cheaper ways to complete college.

But again, just majoring in a science field won't ensure you a job. Simply, getting through a mediocre school with mediocre stats doesn't impress anyone and there aren't going to be people calling you up begging you to work for them.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by God-King Abacab [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are fucking DDS's out there in private practice with over $440,000 in debt at like 16-17% int.rate, yeah they make six figures every year but they'll always be paying off loans

That's abnormal and mostly for people who can't get into state schools who go straight to opening or investing in a practice immediately upon receiving their letters. In state tuition for Texas DDS programs is 13-16k per year + cost of living and some extra for tools, specs, etc. Overall if you're in state the cost of attending a DDS program is comparable to a state university. For reference, tuition at UT this past year eclipsed $6200 per semester for 15 hours.

Even if you went out of state or simply to a private school at around $55k per year you're looking at $200k tuition + living and tools. Even is we use very liberal budgeting figures and say they total another $125k during that time we're roughly $100k or 33% off from your figure. I'm not saying this never happens, but for someone to have almost half a million in debt upon leaving dental school seems ludicrous.

I recently heard that the average associate with PDS makes ~$170k annually straight out of school with ZERO overhead cost. You can put some serious payback into those loans over a two year span and still have enough to buy into a practice as a partner.

Also, I'm not sure where you heard 16-17% loan rate but that sounds as if they transferred their loan sum to consolidate under a private institution of some sort. Professional school tuition loans often run sub 5% which is why you see doctors, dentists, and lawyers pay them off over 20 year plans quite often.

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by Cyrano [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's abnormal and mostly for people who can't get into state schools who go straight to opening or investing in a practice immediately upon receiving their letters. In state tuition for Texas DDS programs is 13-16k per year + cost of living and some extra for tools, specs, etc. Overall if you're in state the cost of attending a DDS program is comparable to a state university. For reference, tuition at UT this past year eclipsed $6200 per semester for 15 hours.

Even if you went out of state or simply to a private school at around $55k per year you're looking at $200k tuition + living and tools. Even is we use very liberal budgeting figures and say they total another $125k during that time we're roughly $100k or 33% off from your figure. I'm not saying this never happens, but for someone to have almost half a million in debt upon leaving dental school seems ludicrous.

I recently heard that the average associate with PDS makes ~$170k annually straight out of school with ZERO overhead cost. You can put some serious payback into those loans over a two year span and still have enough to buy into a practice as a partner.

Also, I'm not sure where you heard 16-17% loan rate but that sounds as if they transferred their loan sum to consolidate under a private institution of some sort. Professional school tuition loans often run sub 5% which is why you see doctors, dentists, and lawyers pay them off over 20 year plans quite often.

I'm just speaking on an individual basis as opposed to a normative mean, while anyone can throw D.O.E statistics and base every individual case into this lump sum, it's better to interview the average college graduate in the professional world in terms of debt and weight of a degree.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by God-King Abacab [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just speaking on an individual basis as opposed to a normative mean, while anyone can throw D.O.E statistics and base every individual case into this lump sum, it's better to interview the average college graduate in the professional world in terms of debt and weight of a degree.

My first degree was American Studies which was pointless although my first job out of school paid $50k + incentives. I came out of school with less than $10k debt and would have had virtually none had I not taken a victory lap for my last 3 hours. My degree was by no means worthless in terms of earning potential, but in terms of how it directly related to my career it was.

First and foremost, private institutions outside of a few marquee schools aren't worth the cost regardless of what degree you're getting. I don't care if you major in biochemistry, there's no reason to pay $30k+ per year in tuition for a job that essentially opens at $40kish.

Going back to what you said about LA degrees being worthless, it depends on where you get it and who it's connected to. I would say a philosphy degree from a public ivy league has the potential to land you a better business or sales job than a business or marketing degree from a school like Texas Tech. Truth be told though, you can't make a rational argument that the average American has more earning potential with only a GED versus a bachelor's in something. Having a college degree makes you part of a socioeconomic sub-class that tends to look out for one another and that's where the real value of getting that degree comes from.

I know you get this because you're obviously an intelligent person and you're just trying to make a point, but a completed degree is by no means worthless. To me the more relevant issue at hand is that people are going to school who have no business doing so and dropping out or running their credit into the ground. My original degree, in my opinion, was a waste of time because I did it simply to get one instead of truly knowing what I wanted for a career. If an 18 year old is able to figure out a career that will drive them for life and stick with it, they've got it figured out. For the rest of us, there's always liberal arts.

[deakolt]

And we're talking worth purely from an economic sense. I agree with you that those degrees are not worthless at all in an intellectual sense

[deakolt]

An associate's degree in IT is not the same as a B.S. in applied mathematics. We're both pulling this data from thin air but I'd imagine the people with a B.S. in applied math rarely lose their tech job to someone with a B.A. in English.

If your point is that any B.A. is worth about the same as any other B.A., then I agree with you. However, this is definitely not true for Ph.D's, B.S's, M.S's

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by deakolt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An associate's degree in IT is not the same as a B.S. in applied mathematics. We're both pulling this data from thin air but I'd imagine the people with a B.S. in applied math rarely lose their tech job to someone with a B.A. in English.

If your point is that any B.A. is worth about the same as any other B.A., then I agree with you. However, this is definitely not true for Ph.D's, B.S's, M.S's

I'm just arguing from the experience from others, I've known people to lose out on promotions to people with degrees that don't match the job in question. The example with the B.A getting the promotion from the IT guy with an A.A came down to the higher degree weight and the fact the B.A came from Indiana University as opposed to this dudes degree form Ivy Tech

[Salty]

Quality lulz thread