Best solo melee class?

[WarpathEQ]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

melee with a bard pre epic is doing it wrong

Someone hand this man a venomous axe.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Someone hand this man a venomous axe.

The DD is nice but it seems past level 20 or so it will lose its steam. When I see 60s with one I cry inside as something like a jade mace probably has better DPS and bards get access to a 10/18 wristsnapper for like 300pp. 11/24 is not a great weapon by any metric at this point.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

melee with a bard pre epic is doing it wrong

Soloing? Yea probably.

In a group? Most your normal spells aren’t even modded. Slow has the same effect, mana too, snare hardly affected, dots don’t matter, charm and mez nobody is cycling in a flute. The ones that matter like regen and McVaxious there are better primary instruments to cycle.

The real question is can the bard melee and actually play songs efficiently. Most can. With a lot of CC needed most likely can’t and should step back and tab-target instead of swinging steel.

It’s like most classes, if they are meeting the Bell Curve let them do their thing. If the pre-epic bard isn’t twisting songs to do SK pet dps…ugh.

[kjs86z2]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Soloing? Yea probably.

In a group? Most your normal spells aren’t even modded. Slow has the same effect, mana too, snare hardly affected, dots don’t matter, charm and mez nobody is cycling in a flute. The ones that matter like regen and McVaxious there are better primary instruments to cycle.

The real question is can the bard melee and actually play songs efficiently. Most can. With a lot of CC needed most likely can’t and should step back and tab-target instead of swinging steel.

It’s like most classes, if they are meeting the Bell Curve let them do their thing. If the pre-epic bard isn’t twisting songs to do SK pet dps…ugh.

eh was more thinking you should be pulling (either with eye helm or getting your ass out there)

if you're letting any other class pull you're bad - the monk is doing way more damage and no other class can cast and move at the same time...oh and eye helm too is pure amazeballs for keeping your twist going in camp

there should always be a steady stream of mobs coming into camp, throttled by group dps / capability

obvious caveat being you're breaking some super dangerous spot where you need FD...but for standard leveling groups this doesnt apply ever...especially once you get aoe snare

if you happen to be the virtuoso sperg that can do it all perfectly and melee - bravo...the mage sitting there sending his pet in while watching netflix thanks you for all that extra work

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

eh was more thinking you should be pulling (either with eye helm or getting your ass out there)

if you're letting any other class pull you're bad - the monk is doing way more damage and no other class can cast and move at the same time...oh and eye helm too is pure amazeballs for keeping your twist going in camp

there should always be a steady stream of mobs coming into camp, throttled by group dps / capability

obvious caveat being you're breaking some super dangerous spot where you need FD...but for standard leveling groups this doesnt apply ever...especially once you get aoe snare

if you happen to be the virtuoso sperg that can do it all perfectly and melee - bravo...the mage sitting there sending his pet in while watching netflix thanks you for all that extra work

Tangential but I like it when wizards pull with eye while medding and cc the incoming train with aoe snares, roots, etc.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

At least for levels 1-45 or so, Bards should do well enough if someone wants to melee. This is assuming you can twink the Bard well. It won't be as good as bard kiting, but some people like to melee. I like melee quite a bit personally.

Using my DPS calculator, let's compare a level 40 Warrior and a level 40 Bard. Both have 150 STR, 34% Worn Haste, Swiftblade of Zek Mainhand, and Blade of Carnage Offhand. They are fighting a level 35 mob.

Without Bard Songs:
1. Warrior - 27 DPS
2. Bard - 18 DPS

This is expected, as Bards do not have Double Attack. At 200 double attack skill the Warrior will be getting about 50% more weapon swings.

Bard using Vilia's Verses of Celerity (20% Haste) + Tuyen's Chant of Flame (21 DoT damage per Tick) + Selo's Consonant Chain (~25% slow):
1. Warrior - 27 DPS
2. Bard - 21 Melee DPS + 3.5 DoT DPS = 24.5 DPS

I'm not an expert bard, so there may be a better combination of songs at that level. You can see that the Bard is now only 2.5 DPS behind the Warrior, while also slowing the mob by 25%. The slow during the fight, combined with HP regen song after the fight, should put the bard at least on par with a Warrior in terms of kills per hour, due to shorter recovery times. Plus bards can pull better than Warriors.

Reaver at level 40 would also be doing around 27 DPS on a Warrior. But obviously SBoZ + BoC is much more expensive.

I also realized Lute of the Howler is clickable at 40, going off of Vivitron's post. At levels 40+ you would certainly be on par with a Warrior if you have a Lute of the Howler, even if the Warrior has eyepatch (20% haste). Saving a song by not casting haste song would allow another song to be played for better survivability or perhaps more damage.

[kjs86z2]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At least for levels 1-45 or so, Bards should do well enough if someone wants to melee. This is assuming you can twink the Bard well. It won't be as good as bard kiting, but some people like to melee. I like melee quite a bit personally.

Using my DPS calculator, let's compare a level 40 Warrior and a level 40 Bard. Both have 150 STR, 34% Worn Haste, Swiftblade of Zek Mainhand, and Blade of Carnage Offhand. They are fighting a level 35 mob.

Without Bard Songs:
1. Warrior - 27 DPS
2. Bard - 18 DPS

This is expected, as Bards do not have Double Attack. At 200 double attack skill the Warrior will be getting about 50% more weapon swings.

Bard using Vilia's Verses of Celerity (20% Haste) + Tuyen's Chant of Flame (21 DoT damage per Tick) + Selo's Consonant Chain (~25% slow):
1. Warrior - 27 DPS
2. Bard - 21 Melee DPS + 3.5 DoT DPS = 24.5 DPS

I'm not an expert bard, so there may be a better combination of songs at that level. You can see that the Bard is now only 2.5 DPS behind the Warrior, while also slowing the mob by 25%. The slow during the fight, combined with HP regen song after the fight, should put the bard at least on par with a Warrior in terms of kills per hour, due to shorter recovery times. Plus bards can pull better than Warriors.

Reaver at level 40 would also be doing around 27 DPS on a Warrior. But obviously SBoZ + BoC is much more expensive.

I also realized Lute of the Howler is clickable at 40, going off of Vivitron's post. At levels 40+ you would certainly be on par with a Warrior if you have a Lute of the Howler, even if the Warrior has eyepatch (20% haste). Saving a song by not casting haste song would allow another song to be played for better survivability or perhaps more damage.

now do it for charm killing

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I appreciate demonstrating the fact that it is kind of viable but you're still spending like 150k to turn a class into something it is not really when you could spend a fraction of that and level 10x faster. Or put that money on a class that does the same thing but better.

Even untwinked I think a melee Bard would do suprisingly well compared to an untwinked Monk levels 1-45. I'll probably do a writeup in the evening.

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

now do it for charm killing

I don't think anybody was suggesting Bard melee is more efficient than the other options Bards have. Bard melee simply isn't as bad as people think when comparing to other melee classes who don't have charming/swarm kiting as options.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even untwinked I think a melee Bard would do suprisingly well compared to an untwinked Monk levels 1-45. I'll probably do a writeup in the evening

Yea bards are probably the best dungeon crawlers until 51. With moderate twinkage I was doing stuff and killing at a rate that even an enc couldn’t keep up with. This did involve mixing in charm but still crazy good. Even though their aoe mez is one tick it’s really effective still into the mid 40s. Fantastic class that unfortunately ends up swarming as their stuff just doesn’t scale as well 51+. I will say though if I had epic at 46 I would have liked to try more things as melee + chant dots is a ton of dps.

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea bards are probably the best dungeon crawlers until 51. With moderate twinkage I was doing stuff and killing at a rate that even an enc couldn’t keep up with. This did involve mixing in charm but still crazy good. Even though their aoe mez is one tick it’s really effective still into the mid 40s. Fantastic class that unfortunately ends up swarming as their stuff just doesn’t scale as well 51+. I will say though if I had epic at 46 I would have liked to try more things as melee + chant dots is a ton of dps.

if you were doing better than an enchanter at level 51, it was a really bad enchanter.