Alternatives to variance to increase competition (veterans and relevant only)

[Chuck_still_a_virgin]

Originally Posted by mostbitter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about this alternative:

Log in, Recruit, plvl new recruits, discourage people from rolling classes you can't gear b/c of lack of raid mobs. How tough is it to get n epic for a monk/rog/clr toss then some planar and resist jewelry and they are about as good as they need to be.

Because none of this matters. If Lite recruited 100 new players and had them geared to the teeth, his guild would monopolize all of the raid mobs. Everyone from Nihilum would jump ship and join Lite's guild. They would be the ones killing every raid mob in the game on the same day in the same exact order every week. Then we'd have the same problem with a different guild name. The problem is that with no variance, it will always revert back to the mean.

[derpcake]

People that don't like the server state should just stop logging in.

Can always let nihi raid to their hearts content while playing on another server.

[R Flair]

Variance does nothing to promote pvp. It rewards A) the lucky guild, or B) the guild that spends all their time watching for repops. Both scenarios promote sniping mobs uncontested.

What you really mean is you, the guy not playing on Red99, want to punish the players that are playing by making them sit around day and night while you laugh it up stuffing your face with cheetos and twinkies.

[derpcake]

Originally Posted by R Flair [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Variance does nothing to promote pvp.

Yea it does, it ensures guilds have to gather and race when stuff spawns, and can't just be present in full force while counting down from 5 as the mob spawns.

I guess you don't understand this though. No problem.

[derpcake]

Originally Posted by R Flair [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you really mean is you, the guy not playing on Red99, want to punish the players that are playing by making them sit around day and night while you laugh it up stuffing your face with cheetos and twinkies.

Or you know, guilds could race? Like they did on classic?

Unfortunately having kunark for years here removed that aspect though.

Perfect timers & overgeared zergs, god forbid anything changes. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[lite]

Originally Posted by Chuck_still_a_virgin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

God, HB, even you know this is a bullshit argument.

If the 1927 New York Yankees were stretching on the field, a high school team COULD have run on the field, hit a few home runs and say they beat the yankees. The reality is, all the yankees have to do is stand up and beat the shit out of them.

that fucking analogy..... damn. This is the kind of badasses this server turns away.

[Zalaerian]

Originally Posted by Chuck_still_a_virgin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

God, HB, even you know this is a bullshit argument.



The worst part is that Nihilum members can't voice dissent, they can't say variance is a good idea. Not because they believe it, but because Nizzar will guildremove them and blacklist them from ever getting loot. Rogean has created a dictator in Nizzar. I haven't played on this server in 2-2.5 years, I'm about as unbiased as you can get. Anyone against variance is a shill or just doesn't understand high level thought.

Your wrong Coach and here's why. Nihilum as a guild has the biggest beards ever grown on any box. I am in minority of the guild who only plays one character. No alts here. I rarely will log on Tyrionn if needed but not the case for most. Our mobilization to spawns is not because of porters. It's because we have close to 30 epic/VP alts in seb. Another 20 in KC. And prob 40 scattered across norath w OT hammers for centralized mobilization. More alts are being geared daily. Velious will just be us logging in our TOV camped toon or our Kael toon with a few making the transit

Hokuten exists right now because we allow it and it benefits us. We take their high level embers looking to expand more into the game of raiding and progressing their toon. They also do things like royals that can spwn with things our guys still need (thanks for the queen shield last night ).

EQ is not a game of mere skill. 90% of it is time invested = reward and not one guild will ever out sock the king sockers

TLDR bring on variance. You are not prepared

[LostCause]

Originally Posted by Not Salem [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Funny HB is saying we could of tool CT today because Nilly showed up with 20. If we Did manage to get it there would be 45+ Nili at the next Trakanon spawn. See Azraels 1 - 25. Thanks for the tip tho ill consider it while I click my crown of rile

you guys can easily pull 40+ dont bullshit me ive seen it don't cry

unlike azrael we have loyal members that actually log on.

not my fault lite is a bad guild leader. (what is it azrael 24.0)

numbers are numbers either pvp or sit on forums and cry.

[lite]

Originally Posted by Zalaerian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your wrong Coach and here's why. Nihilum as a guild has the biggest beards ever grown on any box. I am in minority of the guild who only plays one character. No alts here. I rarely will log on Tyrionn if needed but not the case for most. Our mobilization to spawns is not because of porters. It's because we have close to 30 epic/VP alts in seb. Another 20 in KC. And prob 40 scattered across norath w OT hammers for centralized mobilization. More alts are being geared daily. Velious will just be us logging in our TOV camped toon or our Kael toon with a few making the transit

aka ...Zerg guilds are incontestable under current ruleset. Yeah we knew that, thus desire for variance to add different dynamic which can create different scenarios.

Originally Posted by Zalaerian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQ is not a game of mere skill. 90% of it is time invested = reward and not one guild will ever out sock the king sockers

TLDR bring on variance. You are not prepared

I don't think anyone is arguing that at all, as a matter of fact. It is actually the best pro variance argument.

[Chuck_still_a_virgin]

(I removed some sentences to clarify your points)

Originally Posted by Zalaerian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your wrong Coach and here's why. Nihilum as a guild has the biggest beards ever grown on any box. Our mobilization to spawns is not because of porters. Velious will just be us logging in our TOV camped toon or our Kael toon with a few making the transit

So I'm not exactly sure what point you're not agreeing with of mine based on these points. I agree you have some very dedicated players. I agree your mobilization is not based on porting. I agree that you will monopolize all the raid mobs in Velious.

When I mention mobilization, I mean mobilizing a force at 3am on a Wednesday for a single Faydader spawn. Not how fast you can port your preorganized raid day 60 man force to VP after killing Trakanon. How long will your dedicated force be willing to log in to contest a raid mob that no one needs but you kill anyone to keep anyone else from having? Now how about your members who aren't so hardcore and really just log on for the loot pinata every week?

Yes, with no variance you will hold down every single velious spawn - giant and dragon faction combined. You guys will create a clearing routine that will allow you to kill certain raid mobs and move to the next mob in an efficient manner, whether that means logging in other characters strategically placed, or porting. You will arrive at pricely the exact time, like a good wizard is supposed to - right when the mob spawns, on time. So you will have 60, 70, maybe 80 players log in for probably 2 days (I assume it will take 2 for full velious clears) each week. The mobs will spawn in the exact order, at the exact moment that they did in the previous week. Right?

Originally Posted by Zalaerian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hokuten exists right now because we allow it and it benefits us. We take their high level embers looking to expand more into the game of raiding and progressing their toon. They also do things like royals that can spwn with things our guys still need (thanks for the queen shield last night ).

EQ is not a game of mere skill. 90% of it is time invested = reward and not one guild will ever out sock the king sockers

Yes, the only place for secondary guilds on a server that is systemically faulted is to be the feeder guild. The only way you rise up in the guild hierarchy is topping the monopoly guild, and you become the new monopoly guild. And since the server gives so much power to the monopoly guild in terms of recruiting and the pvp advantage of always being at your strongest point for raid days, it is almost impossible to topple the monopoly guild. It's a cycle dictated by not having variance. Doesn't matter if it's Nihilum or any other guild name.

And I agree, EQ is not a game about skill. It's /played + numbers. That's why I argued in the first months about the power that the server rules gave to zerg guilds. Being a zerg guild is already incredibly powerful because so many battles about pure numbers. When you know when every raid mob spawns, it becomes a game of who can get the most players to log in 30 minutes before it's due. Nothing more, nothing less. That's why Nihilum has been notorious for having huge play times on raid days and being vacant from the server for the other 6 days of the week. Pretty obvious what the problem with the server is.