Hybrid XP penalties

[lecompte]

Okay, effectually the same but Tunare damn it, it looks like plate.

[xCry0x]

Lol, it is one of these things where I wish I could have been a fly on the wall of the product meeting where the original EQ dev's were like.

"Dude, paladins, sk and ranger going to be so OP!"

"Yea man, a paladin is like a cleric + a warrior! All running around and tanking and healing, the group wont even NEED a cleric."

"Oh man, you are right, the SK will be like pew pew fear, dots, pet, life tap, smack with my big sword AND TANK!"

"Yea yea yea, and ranger will be like, dual wield doing all this damage + nukes & dots and can buff!"

"Man these guys are going to be SO op, we better put an exp penalty on them so the server isn't full of paladin, sk & rangers"

.
.
.
.

2 Years later

"Woops, better get rid of that penalty so people actually play pal, sk and rangers"

.
.
.
Another few years later
.
.
.
"Wow we better add some useful aa's and discs so people actually play pal, sk and rangers"

"Yea, at least we got bards right?"

"Yea, 1 for 4 isnt bad"

"Nope, we are awesome."

[Vondra]

Originally Posted by xCry0x [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol, it is one of these things where I wish I could have been a fly on the wall of the product meeting where the original EQ dev's were like.

"Dude, paladins, sk and ranger going to be so OP!"

"Yea man, a paladin is like a cleric + a warrior! All running around and tanking and healing, the group wont even NEED a cleric."

"Oh man, you are right, the SK will be like pew pew fear, dots, pet, life tap, smack with my big sword AND TANK!"

"Yea yea yea, and ranger will be like, dual wield doing all this damage + nukes & dots and can buff!"

"Man these guys are going to be SO op, we better put an exp penalty on them so the server isn't full of paladin, sk & rangers"

.
.
.
.

2 Years later

"Woops, better get rid of that penalty so people actually play pal, sk and rangers"

.
.
.
Another few years later
.
.
.
"Wow we better add some useful aa's and discs so people actually play pal, sk and rangers"

"Yea, at least we got bards right?"

"Yea, 1 for 4 isnt bad"

"Nope, we are awesome."

The funniest one to me has always been the halfling exp bonus.

It's rumored that the halfling exp bonus was actually intended for humans, but they goofed up. I hope so.

Better than considering the alternatives.

Dev 1: "You can be a human with no benefit....or you can be a halfling and get hide, sneak, and level faster"

Dev 2: "Okay. Wait...what's the point of being a human then?"

Dev 1: "Well, your helmet looks like a bucket."

Dev 2: "Sold. I'm compiling it now."

[xCry0x]

Originally Posted by Vondra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The funniest one to me has always been the halfling exp bonus.

It's rumored that the halfling exp bonus was actually intended for humans, but they goofed up. I hope so.

Better than considering the alternatives.

Dev 1: "You can be a human with no benefit....or you can be a halfling and get hide, sneak, and level faster"

Dev 2: "Okay. Wait...what's the point of being a human then?"

Dev 1: "Well, your helmet looks like a bucket."

Dev 2: "Sold. I'm compiling it now."

Lol, I had not heard that but it makes a lot of sense.

I love when the wiki says "Well the human is well balanced"

Awesome, ill gear myself with a necklace of superiority in every slot and be itemized to maximize my racial benefit!

[TarukShmaruk]

Back on topic..

Hybrid XP penalties are being removed with velious.

Should we wait until Velious, or get them removed early while Velious is still in development?

If you are looking at it from a pure timeline standpoint, Kunark has been out longer than it took Velious to come out.

[August]

Originally Posted by xCry0x [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol, it is one of these things where I wish I could have been a fly on the wall of the product meeting where the original EQ dev's were like.

"Dude, paladins, sk and ranger going to be so OP!"

"Yea man, a paladin is like a cleric + a warrior! All running around and tanking and healing, the group wont even NEED a cleric."

"Oh man, you are right, the SK will be like pew pew fear, dots, pet, life tap, smack with my big sword AND TANK!"

"Yea yea yea, and ranger will be like, dual wield doing all this damage + nukes & dots and can buff!"

"Man these guys are going to be SO op, we better put an exp penalty on them so the server isn't full of paladin, sk & rangers"

.
.
.
.

2 Years later

"Woops, better get rid of that penalty so people actually play pal, sk and rangers"

.
.
.
Another few years later
.
.
.
"Wow we better add some useful aa's and discs so people actually play pal, sk and rangers"

"Yea, at least we got bards right?"

"Yea, 1 for 4 isnt bad"

"Nope, we are awesome."

If my memory serves me correctly, the EVerquest lore was actually heavily influenced by DnD games that they had going on.

In that sense, the 'hybrid exp penalty' actually make a ton of sense. In DND, you can only level up 'one' of your classes at a time. You could be a level 10 cleric and level 10 warrior - and be level 20- but only 10 of each class.

I believe the logic was that you got to be represented properly @ your level, but you weren't actually HALf as powerful as each respective class, but more so. So, they added in a penalty to require you to get more 'experience' to level up both of your classes respectively.

What they failed to realize was how this translated into the MMO genre and character power. Usually in DND you took a class to unlock special abilities or spells that were utility related - turn undead, for example. Nobody was going around (at least in my group) leveling up their classes equally. So you ended up with gimp classes.

The appropriate analog to DnD would have been to eliminate the SK and PAL class altogether, and then let the warrior, upon reaching 60, 'specialize' into a class and receive LoH+Stuns+Turn Undead, DT+lifetap+summon pet, or pure-melee abilities (think Berserker in DnD) that gives raw power or stamina of the sort.

[Splorf22]

FWIW, I think in true classic EQ hybrids deserver their penalties. In Kunark Warriors get outrageous improvements (huge skill increases relative to hybrids, triple attack, more HP, fantastic disciplines) and suddenly the XP penalty becomes silly.

Anyway I chalk this stuff up to the slow progression. For example, on live the Donals BP of outrageously overpoweredness was good for maybe a few months. Here it's been out for years. Mage Epic pets are well balanced for Velious but tear up Kunark; we're stuck in late Kunark for 18 months now. Iksars don't get any planar armor. etc etc.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FWIW, I think in true classic EQ hybrids deserver their penalties. In Kunark Warriors get outrageous improvements (huge skill increases relative to hybrids, triple attack, more HP, fantastic disciplines) and suddenly the XP penalty becomes silly.

Anyway I chalk this stuff up to the slow progression. For example, on live the Donals BP of outrageously overpoweredness was good for maybe a few months. Here it's been out for years. Mage Epic pets are well balanced for Velious but tear up Kunark; we're stuck in late Kunark for 18 months now. Iksars don't get any planar armor. etc etc.

Really? fatty SKs deserved to not have enough mana (due to double penalty + low stats) to cast their L1 Necro pet when they first got spells at L9? and the XP penalty is just pants-on-head retarded.

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really? fatty SKs deserved to not have enough mana (due to double penalty + low stats) to cast their L1 Necro pet when they first got spells at L9?

Lol, of course they do. I always loved this :P

Trolls are not very smart, and it's great that troll SKs were penalized in this way. Adds some RP to the mix. And really, with their ridiculous melee stats, there's no reason for them to complain about low mana.

[kaev]

Ah, so your theory is that players should not, you know, be allowed to enjoy playing the game. Got it, and thanks for the clarification.