Questioning GM Decisions

[Roanoke]

Originally Posted by purist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

wait, how did quitting uthgaard quitting* have anything to do with trolls again

Example:

Lets say your the regional manager of a fast food chain. You work hard. Your employees work hard. The food is very good, in fact, it's so good many people don't consider it to be fast food. You enjoy what you do, even though the pay isn't so great- it's rewarding enough on its own to see smiling faces of happy customers.

One day, you're opening the restaurant only to find out that your so-called "loyal customers" are stealing from the store counters. To prevent this measure you remove the napkin and ketchup dispensers for two weeks to prevent further theft. You say "we will allow you to use these again in two weeks, but until then the customers who were caught stealing are not welcome in our establishment." All hell breaks lose, suddenly people are questioning every decision you have ever made as upper management. You no longer feel as though the hard work you've put into making this a great place is being respected. You wish it wasn't this way, but clearly part of the community that keeps you "in business" has ulterior motives to gain a ketchup and napkin advantage over the rest of your customers. You feel as if somehow the community is blaming YOU instead of the people who outright stole from what was potentially usable napkins and ketchup by everyone.

It'd make me quit too. Odd/Bad example but I think it gets the point across. Why do something when all you get is flak from the community? Instead of the well deserved respect you earned. Doesn't matter if you like the manager on a personal level, the food is fucking delicious and you'll keep going back.

[Demetrium]

Originally Posted by Roanoke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Example:

Lets say your the regional manager of a fast food chain. You work hard. Your employees work hard. The food is very good, in fact, it's so good many people don't consider it to be fast food. You enjoy what you do, even though the pay isn't so great- it's rewarding enough on its own to see smiling faces of happy customers.

One day, you're opening the restaurant only to find out that your so-called "loyal customers" are stealing from the store counters. To prevent this measure you remove the napkin and ketchup dispensers for two weeks to prevent further theft. You say "we will allow you to use these again in two weeks, but until then the customers who were caught stealing are not welcome in our establishment." All hell breaks lose, suddenly people are questioning every decision you have ever made as upper management. You no longer feel as though the hard work you've put into making this a great place is being respected. You wish it wasn't this way, but clearly part of the community that keeps you "in business" has ulterior motives to gain a ketchup and napkin advantage over the rest of your customers. You feel as if somehow the community is blaming YOU instead of the people who outright stole from what was potentially usable napkins and ketchup by everyone.

It'd make me quit too. Odd/Bad example but I think it gets the point across. Why do something when all you get is flak from the community? Instead of the well deserved respect you earned. Doesn't matter if you like the manager on a personal level, the food is fucking delicious and you'll keep going back.

Apparently nobody who reads these forums understands why Uthgaard left?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thread cleaned.

Those of you you were suspended, reasons displayed. Those whose comments were deleted, do not do it again.

1. Warning
2. Suspension
3. Ban

Depending on what you say, it is possible to skip directly past 1 and be suspended or banned. Moderator discretion.

Glad to see this happen and the thread not get moved to RnF.

+1

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Delete the cheaters' items or there will be irrevocable damage done to the rest of the server. P99 will never be the same... when the good people like Skope start telling you they will quit because of the decision you are about to make final, then really please just forget the game. Forget training and rule lawyering and the nihilistic top 2 guilds and just make the RIGHT, moral decision. Keep the ones who don't cheat.

This is exactly the kind of doom and gloom speech that does nobody any good, thank you Slave for providing an example.

First of all, saying that unless your demands are met, some harm will come to the people being demanded of is tantamount to terrorism, which is exactly what you just did when you said "Delete the cheaters' items or there will be irrevocable damage done to the rest of the server. P99 will never be the same..." This is terrorism plain and simple, and this is the tactic employed by a large majority of the group of posters who are being detrimental to the health of the server at the current time.

Secondly, Skope, while a valuable member of the community, leaving because he doesn't like the rules of the server is not a reason to change the rules of the forum.

Thirdly, Skope has a perfectly legitimate method available to him which has been provided and outlined by the staff. Skope should use this avenue and abide by the decisions or make his decision whether or not he wants to be here.

The above goes for everyone. The mob rule mentality is not getting the server anywhere but downhill, so let's put a stop to it.

[Vohl]

nilbog and others: Thanks for stepping up the policing on the Server Chat forum. I hope that things get better soon and some posters learn to keep RnF mentality in the RnF forum. Server concerns can certainly be discussed civilly.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Demetrium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Apparently nobody who reads these forums understands why Uthgaard left?

Most of us do, the others can be directed to a thread in which it is appropriate to discuss that matter, maybe in one which you would like to start. This is not the appropriate thread to discuss Uthgaard specifically. This thread is about calling attention to the fact that a group of people are posting threads that are highly critical of the staff of p99, which may also be detrimental to the server in the long run.

[Demetrium]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is exactly the kind of doom and gloom speech that does nobody any good, thank you Slave for providing an example.

First of all, saying that unless your demands are met, some harm will come to the people being demanded of is tantamount to terrorism, which is exactly what you just did when you said "Delete the cheaters' items or there will be irrevocable damage done to the rest of the server. P99 will never be the same..." This is terrorism plain and simple, and this is the tactic employed by a large majority of the group of posters who are being detrimental to the health of the server at the current time.

"Stop questioning the GMs because it's harming the server". Sounds eerily similar to a thread I'm reading...

[purist]

Originally Posted by Roanoke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Example:

Lets say your the regional manager of a fast food chain. You work hard. Your employees work hard. The food is very good, in fact, it's so good many people don't consider it to be fast food. You enjoy what you do, even though the pay isn't so great- it's rewarding enough on its own to see smiling faces of happy customers.

One day, you're opening the restaurant only to find out that your so-called "loyal customers" are stealing from the store counters. To prevent this measure you remove the napkin and ketchup dispensers for two weeks to prevent further theft. You say "we will allow you to use these again in two weeks, but until then the customers who were caught stealing are not welcome in our establishment." All hell breaks lose, suddenly people are questioning every decision you have ever made as upper management. You no longer feel as though the hard work you've put into making this a great place is being respected. You wish it wasn't this way, but clearly part of the community that keeps you "in business" has ulterior motives to gain a ketchup and napkin advantage over the rest of your customers. You feel as if somehow the community is blaming YOU instead of the people who outright stole from what was potentially usable napkins and ketchup by everyone.

It'd make me quit too. Odd/Bad example but I think it gets the point across. Why do something when all you get is flak from the community? Instead of the well deserved respect you earned. Doesn't matter if you like the manager on a personal level, the food is fucking delicious and you'll keep going back.

stopped reading at "lets say you're a manager of a fast food chain"

[Deuces]

I think the Gm's should input on this thread some more and not have all the hasbinbad comments.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by SearyxTZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's annoying that such a huge positive (a legitimate method of hack prevention) is being turned into a negative because people like to complain or create drama.

It's not complaining and it's not drama. Many of us feel like they dropped the ball when they could have done far more, and we, the non-hacking playerbase, have been handed the short end of the stick considering how lenient the punishments were in comparison to those that have been dished out before and even what the rules themselves state. Throw in some of the other recent decisions, or lack thereof, and you've got a boiling pot that's spilling over. The feud between the devs certainly didn't help, but it's also something that's not new to P99 (it's happened before and this one has gone on for the better part of a year)

This last decision, the one regarding the cheaters, was so bad that I called it quits.

As I said, the staff will make mistakes just as the community will -- we're all human. Sometimes the mistakes are the players' not abiding by the rules (an extreme would be using a third-party program) and sometimes the staff's mistake is not enforcing the rules (the extreme of playing favorites or not banning third-party program-using players).

It's their decision and it's their server. Fine. That's something we all knew going in. But when creating p99 the staff felt there were some cardinal sins that simply were unforgivable -- the rules. But when joining p99, I too felt there were some things that the were unforgivable -- hence rules. Both the staff and the players were expected to abide by them. My interpretation and their interpretation meshed and I joined this server. Had I known how things would go down since then I wouldn't have joined over a year ago. I myself have wavered and I've perhaps broken a dumb rule here and there (I admit I've RnF'd a bit in GC =P and I've trained my guild once or twice. It's hard pulling fear as a wizard), but I never committed a cardinal sin, because had I done it I'd expect to be shown the door. The staff too has made some silly decisions over that time, but I feel they didn't live up to their end of the bargain.

Nothing emotional, no sissy shit. I walked away from the game and am offering to walk away from the forums if they feel they're not changing their minds on that single, and admittedly rather important, decision.

As for HBB: it sort of transcends the forum rules at this point, dude. Do you think me telling nilb0g that i quit in a private message because they made this decision would even warrant a response at all? At least he's reading it, and you know what? I'm glad everyone else is as well.