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[nalkin]

Simply getting a degree from a mediocre school does not mean much, you have to stand out in someway if you want to advance in your field at all. I mean your not just going to graduate college, get your B.S., hang it on the wall and wait for recruiters to knock on your door saying how much they want you to work for them.

Secondly, you should never go to college out of state for undergrad because instate tuition is very cheap. Couple that with financial aid and work, you can easily complete school with little or no debt. The most expensive part of college is paying for an apartment.

Its funny when people talk about how expensive college is because it really is not at all. Tuition is extremely cheap instate and you can get ALOT of financial aid depending on your situation. Not to mention if you go on to higher education, say a PHD, the grad school will literally give you a salary of ~20k a year on top of paying for your tuition.

Thirdly, you should not major in non-science because for the most part it is a waste.

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by deakolt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

well if you're talking about anthropology, history, shit maybe even sociology, they're all equally worthless.

An economics degree or a BS in engineering? not worthless

Anthropologist's that study culture have a huge impact on globalization, how are they worthless when they're compiling research about a group of people that can directly influence politics and economics of a region?

Can't just do business and prop up a McDonalds in India without understanding their culture and behavior habits, hardly a useless degree.

[deakolt]

Originally Posted by God-King Abacab [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alex Trebek, the President of Iran, and Ayn Rand all have philosophy degrees...

Most politicians and Lawyers have extensive concentrations in philosophy, several Federal judges and Senators have a B.S in philosophy

the President of Morgan Stanley has a philosophy degree, Bruce Bodaken CEO of blue shield is a philosophy major.

Time Warner and Paypal are run by philosophy majors

Herbert M. Allison, Jr. CEO of Fannie Mae, former President & COO of Merrill Lynch and Sheila Bair Chair of the FDIC both philosophy majors.


So in what context is the degree useless when many of those whom majored in philosophy control law, economics, politics, and business?

I think these examples speak to the intellect and charisma of those individuals, not to the worthfulness of the philosophy degree as a whole. I could also come up with a similar list: so-and-so dropped out of school, this guy was a janitor before he invented this, Einstein failed grade school math (this isn't actually true btw), Steve Jobs worked in his parents' garage...

A good metric for determining the worth of a given degree is the % of college graduates getting jobs 6 months, 1 year, 2 years after graduating and perhaps also their average income. I think you'd find on average philosophy majors have less % hire rate than do, say, applied mathematics majors, and probably lower starting salaries too

[deakolt]

And we're talking worth purely from an economic sense. I agree with you that those degrees are not worthless at all in an intellectual sense

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by nalkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Simply getting a degree from a mediocre school does not mean much, you have to stand out in someway if you want to advance in your field at all. I mean your not just going to graduate college, get your B.S., hang it on the wall and wait for recruiters to knock on your door saying how much they want you to work for them.

Secondly, you should never go to college out of state for undergrad because instate tuition is very cheap. Couple that with financial aid and work, you can easily complete school with little or no debt. The most expensive part of college is paying for an apartment.

Its funny when people talk about how expensive college is because it really is not at all. Tuition is extremely cheap instate and you can get ALOT of financial aid depending on your situation. Not to mention if you go on to higher education, say a PHD, the grad school will literally give you a salary of ~20k a year on top of paying for your tuition.

Thirdly, you should not major in non-science because for the most part it is a waste.

So you think it's OK to give an 18 year old a $45,000 loan with no reference checks? Banks and the Federal government hand out billions of dollars every year to high school graduates that do not have a job, that do not submit their grades or activities or even taxes and all of which are subsidized

The default rate on those loans has to be astronomical, considering that when the semester refund check comes in the average student is spending $2000+ dollars on parties and video games because there are no stipulations on how that money is spent.

It doesn't matter if a few individuals can make it out with scholarships, grants, and self-payment in cheap schools, it doesn't even compare to the "C" student taking out $45,000 loans every year and maxing them out... They will NEVER be able to pay that shit off no matter the degree.

There are fucking DDS's out there in private practice with over $440,000 in debt at like 16-17% int.rate, yeah they make six figures every year but they'll always be paying off loans

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by deakolt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A good metric for determining the worth of a given degree is the % of college graduates getting jobs 6 months, 1 year, 2 years after graduating and perhaps also their average income. I think you'd find on average philosophy majors have less % hire rate than do, say, applied mathematics majors, and probably lower starting salaries too

Those metrics do not matter whatsoever, there are people with associates in IT that lose their promotion to people with a B.A in English, it's not the subject that matters it's the level of a degree basically you will beat anyone out in the job market if you're the one that is applying with a B.A and the other applicants have an A.A

That's why people in the upper levels of management in NASA aren't majors of physics or chemistry but rather master's and doctorates of english, psychology, business, and philosophy, we all know english and philosophy have shit to do with smashing atoms or sending a rocket into space, but they got those positions because they waived around their ph.D and thesis in front of CEO's.

So while my A.A or B.S in philosophy might be worthless in the everyday job hunt, but I bet if I had a Ph.D in the subject I guarantee it wouldn't take me long to get into some 6-figure position at a company in some human relations department

[deakolt]

An associate's degree in IT is not the same as a B.S. in applied mathematics. We're both pulling this data from thin air but I'd imagine the people with a B.S. in applied math rarely lose their tech job to someone with a B.A. in English.

If your point is that any B.A. is worth about the same as any other B.A., then I agree with you. However, this is definitely not true for Ph.D's, B.S's, M.S's

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by deakolt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An associate's degree in IT is not the same as a B.S. in applied mathematics. We're both pulling this data from thin air but I'd imagine the people with a B.S. in applied math rarely lose their tech job to someone with a B.A. in English.

If your point is that any B.A. is worth about the same as any other B.A., then I agree with you. However, this is definitely not true for Ph.D's, B.S's, M.S's

I'm just arguing from the experience from others, I've known people to lose out on promotions to people with degrees that don't match the job in question. The example with the B.A getting the promotion from the IT guy with an A.A came down to the higher degree weight and the fact the B.A came from Indiana University as opposed to this dudes degree form Ivy Tech

[nalkin]

Originally Posted by God-King Abacab [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't matter if a few individuals can make it out with scholarships, grants, and self-payment in cheap schools, it doesn't even compare to the "C" student taking out $45,000 loans every year and maxing them out... They will NEVER be able to pay that shit off no matter the degree.

But that is their own fault. There are plenty of options to go to school for extremely cheap rates. This is the only point I am trying to make.

1. You can get a ton of grant money if your income is medium-low, which is free money not dependent on your grades. You can get enough to completely cover tuition costs and help or cover room/board costs.
   
2. If you are ambitious you can get scholarship money but that is hard to get.
   
3. You can do 2 years at community college for extremely cheap rates, then transfer in to a good school. 2 years at comm college will not hurt your future and transferring into a good school is 100x easier than getting accepted to that school straight out of highschool.

The point is college is an extremely good investment if you make it a good investment. The typical person can get in and out with little debt quite easily and and major in a sound field like: math, chemistry, engineering, physics, etc. No one is preventing you from picking whatever major you want, so someone choosing a liberal arts subject is making that choice knowing his degree will largely be worthless. Likewise, a person who takes out globs of loans is doing so under their own choice since there are much cheaper ways to complete college.

But again, just majoring in a science field won't ensure you a job. Simply, getting through a mediocre school with mediocre stats doesn't impress anyone and there aren't going to be people calling you up begging you to work for them.

[Salty]

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