Multi questing still going strong... so says the economy?

[Lagaidh]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To me NBG is just this entitled attitude that everyone else exists for my benefit

I agree that the OP is being oversensitive about NBG, and that folks need to set the ground rules with PUG before beginning, but...

I've personally always seen NBG as being more about not being a dick than thinking strangers exist for the benefit of the needy. I've been on both ends of the NBG set up, just as I've been on both ends of /random. I think it comes down to each item and the group that sees it drop.

[oldhead]

Originally Posted by Nordenwatch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I personally think quest items are different, for monk pipes i've never rolled on a pipe a monk in the group has actually needed.

even in non-NBG groups i'd still give quest items to the person who needed it.

Pretty much always been my view on things.

Always hated NBG in Pugs. Greed is the way to go.

For quest no drop items tho it should default to people who need. if nobody needs then greed.

[Messianic]

Parse the words behind NBG - Need? Who needs a damn thing in this game? The mentality behind people who are hypersensitive about NBG is ridiculous.

Why is some monk in a KC group (who's probably already heavily twinked, statistically speaking) entitled to the Tstaff drop? Why is his use of it more useful than someone else's use of the 25k it would easily yield?

Because so much of the gear drops in this game are tradeable, the value of the item isn't solely based on its actual use by someone in the group; and in reality, MQ's do change things. I personally would never take a no-drop item so I can sell the MQ if someone in the group could use it and find that kind of silly. But if the MQ is really that valuable and the group agrees to it...there's nothing wrong with it.

Who gets more utility - a monk who upgrades from a peacebringer to a tstaff, or a shaman who buys an iksar regen BP and a host of hp/wis gear using the proceeds from selling the staff? Who was really "needy" (in a loose sense) in that situation? If the goal is to help the "needy", why not do gearscores on every person in the friggin group?

Obviously, that's a waste of time. But just assuming NBG helps the less geared is really stupid.


tl;dr - learn/set the loot rules as soon as you join a pug, and you need to seriously re-think NBG if you think it's actually the best system for helping the "needy" (again, using the word loosely).

[Houdiny]

I think there is merit on both sides of this argument. I prefer NBG, but I can see things working the other way as well.

My main question is since this appears to be a greed oriented server as far as rolling on items, do you just let people win whatever they can? Say someone in the group wins this tstaff and a fungi tunic also drops. Do they get to roll on the fungi as well? Keeping all the high end items for themselves? Or does it at least get distributed a little bit?

The main problem I have is on live hacking randoms was the one of the first big things that was hacked. If a guy has that advantage it isn't really fair to the group. Not saying this has happened but it at least deserves some conversation.

Another thing that I might add is NBG helps the current group but also future groups. I have certain people that I have leveled with basically since lvl 20. We have all went by the NBG method. And it has worked well. People get more gear in this group and further helps the future groups with these same people. Also helps getting an invite back into said group if you aren't greedy. So there is also some benefits to not being selfish and greedy. Of course at the higher end game in old seb and KC and such this begins to dwindle as most of the groups become out of necessity and not preference.

[Itap]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is some monk in a KC group (who's probably already heavily twinked, statistically speaking) entitled to the Tstaff drop? Why is his use of it more useful than someone else's use of the 25k it would easily yield?

There is fallacy in your argument. You assume that all monks are heavily twinked. What if the monk is upgrading from a Wu's quivering or a set of trance sticks? Is he not entitled to a monk only weapon that he will use as soon as it is looted?

Either way, i believe the OP was referring to No Drop items, such as the KC pipe. A group rolling on a no drop item that a group member could use to complete his/her epic ,or whatever the case may be, is not right.

Peoples greed for plat overcomes the sense of community and helping each other. In the end, its just a game, fuck it

[Acillatem]

I prefer Hand-me-down round robin in PUGs.

If I'm in a crypt group and I win a Breath of Harmony, and then Heiro Cloak drops and I win that also - I "hand down" the Breath of Harmony to whomever had the 2nd highest roll. If the person who had the 2nd highest roll previously won a lvl 60 spell, they would hand down to #3 etc.

So it spreads the loot around. And IMO, NBG should be reserved for Guild only becuz I will see the long-term benefits of said item drop.

[falkun]

"Need" is such a grey area that most people on the server just greed roll everything and let the market sort out individual's needs. If I want a specific piece of loot and don't want to pay for it, I'll get guildies and/or friends to help me camp the item. They won't roll against me because they know I'm at that camp for that item(s).

Also, the other 5 people in the group have put in just as much effort as you have at that camp. Why should they be any less rewarded (besides getting the RNG shaft)?

I do tend to prefer greed groups with either ML or hand-me-down, as Aci mentions above. That way more people walk away with something rather than one person being an RNG god and getting everything.

The biggest point, however, is communication. Know the loot philosophy going into the group, so you are not surprised when something does drop. If you don't like the rules from the get-go, then just leave the group.

[falkun]

NBG people, why would you want to subjugate your groupmates for your selfish gain? They are putting in the same time you are being at that camp helping you exp or kill the named you need. If they have not agreed to other loot rules, why should they not be entitled to the rewards of the camp the same as you? Are you inherently better than your groupmates because you are fighting in a place that benefits you?

If that is the case, then clerics shouldn't group in places that don't offer cleric loot, enchanters should eschew camps without chanter loot, and warriors/knights should avoid camps without drops for them. Now no one groups anywhere because beneficial loot doesn't drop for them where it drops for others. If you want people to get together, give them the incentive to do so, let them roll.

[Houdiny]

When EQ live released there wasn't this much selfishness that I can remember. Sure there was issues and sure people gained a bad reputation for doing things. I'm not saying nothing ever happened. But it seemed NBG was the consensus on my server and it held true for a long long time.

Maybe the fact that other games have come out since and people have adopted new rules they like to play by, I don't know. I just remember EQ being a more friendly, non greedy experience then this server.

And it doesn't just extend to loot in a group. Raid mobs were taken turns on. You had elite guilds that would let a guild try a mob once or twice and if they had no luck the elite guild would move in and take it out. But all guilds were at least shown the respect to try and take a target down. Not trained in the process of trying to progress. After all how do you know you can or can't kill something until you try it. And furthermore experience gained on an encounter goes a long ways. Maybe letting a guild attempt something a few times then allows them to be able to complete an encounter later on. Instead of just deeming every raid mob in Norrath on this server to two guilds and no more.

As for the people who suggest that a person can random on something and take it to sell that is all good and well but what if said person was in that particular group to obtain that very item. He now doesn't have it and considers his time wasted. I'm not saying I wouldn't play with these types of people either. I'm just saying that stuff like this sticks with people and when it comes to deciding whether to invite someone to a group or not plays a large part in whether or not you have had good memories grouping with them or all bad. I have certain people I will not invite to a group. If they stumble into my group I don't leave, but when the opportunity to get someone else is there I employ that right

[falkun]

From my experience on Live, lots of people were unselfish and then there were a few people who abused NBG with a very loose definition of "need". This server just removes NBG from PUG groups so that it can't be abused. Why is CYA considered selfishness?