Spawn Varience

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Nedala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That one noble spawn where like 150-200(?) players were sitting on noble spawn trying to get aggro first when he pops, was a good example what would happen if the variance was removed.

No, that's what would happen if bosses were FTE. FTE is not the same as having no variance, I'm not sure why people seem to think that's what this thread is about. And it doesn't happen that often with noble even though he's the only boss without variance (edit: and it never happens now since he's poopsockable, not that that's a good thing). If no bosses had variance, a lot of the time multiple bosses would spawn at once (which is impossible without the variance), which would probably mitigate the harms you're talking about. I just don't think it would be as bad as people say it would be. If we got rid of the variance for a few weeks just to see what would happen, it wouldn't be the end of the world, we could always reverse it if everything that was said in this thread was true.

[Droxx]

Since nobody else did it:
*Variance

[Messianic]

lol tags

[Bigcountry23]

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[Shiftin]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whoever clears to the boss first and engages first gets it, but if the boss hasn't spawned yet, then the first to 15 rules would apply. Again, I don't think camping raid spawns is a good thing at all, I'm not even sure if it's better or worse than FTE, but let's just get things straight: no variance doesn't mean "everything is FTE". The same rules as normal would apply.

Noble is an example of a boss without variance that can be camped. This was clarified a few weeks ago. Again, I'm not saying this is good, bad, better, worse, etc. than FTE. I'm just saying that FTE has pretty much nothing to do with the suggestion in this thread.

Sooooo you want it to be pretty much exactly like it is now, except remove the variance and force people to go back to actually sitting at their computers poopsocking? Do YOU want to sit in naggy's lair for 24 hours having to repond to challenges about your AFK status at a moment's notice? Because I'd way prefer to help my guild track a few nights a week and, you know, hang out with my family some.

I actually like the thought of all the mobs respawning at the same time, as long as that trigger for repops has an element of variance. That is 2-3 less days a week we have to burn people out wearing out their track hotkeys. (Yes, we actually track for mobs, with actual druids and rangers, 24/7 when mobs are due to spawn. No, we don't know when things will spawn no matter what nonsense you've read in R&F.)

Originally Posted by Mise [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remove variance. Get the tops guild to stop acting like children when most of the server is in their 30s-40s. Set up a rotation.

I <3 when people say this. Please explain 1. What incentive the guilds currently getting the bosses have to voluntarily give them away, 2. Why the GMs care / would waste their time trying to enforce this and 3. How this is classic.

[Mise]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I <3 when people say this. Please explain 1. What incentive the guilds currently getting the bosses have to voluntarily give them away, 2. Why the GMs care / would waste their time trying to enforce this and 3. How this is classic.

1. The incentive is not having to poopsock. Setting a definite time to raid that doesn't involve logging in bleary eyed at 3am to down a raid target takes some pressure off the players, and you'll probably have less burnouts. Yes, the two guilds that are getting everything right now would have to give some of that up.

2. It would not be in any way GM enforced, so the GMs don't have to care. All the guilds that are capable of downing bosses would have to sign up for a raid calendar. Any guild that hijacks something would then be blacklisted by the entire raiding community.

3. We worked out a rotation just fine in classic on my server.

I'm not saying it's not a huge mountain to climb, with all the animosity between guilds and grown men acting like children, but it would certainly be the ideal to work toward a rotation.

Obviously this topic has been beaten to death on these forums, and by the looks of things it'll probably never happen. If the variance were removed though, I think a rotation would become more of a possibility once people realize how stupid it is to sit on a spawn with 200 other people and 4-5 guilds waiting to get the first engage.

[Shiftin]

Originally Posted by Mise [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. The incentive is not having to poopsock. Setting a definite time to raid that doesn't involve logging in bleary eyed at 3am to down a raid target takes some pressure off the players, and you'll probably have less burnouts. Yes, the two guilds that are getting everything right now would have to give some of that up.

2. It would not be in any way GM enforced, so the GMs don't have to care. All the guilds that are capable of downing bosses would have to sign up for a raid calendar. Any guild that hijacks something would then be blacklisted by the entire raiding community.

3. We worked out a rotation just fine in classic on my server.

I'm not saying it's not a huge mountain to climb, with all the animosity between guilds and grown men acting like children, but it would certainly be the ideal to work toward a rotation.

Obviously this topic has been beaten to death on these forums, and by the looks of things it'll probably never happen. If the variance were removed though, I think a rotation would become more of a possibility once people realize how stupid it is to sit on a spawn with 200 other people and 4-5 guilds waiting to get the first engage.

You understand we don't poopsock, right? I don't mean that in an insulting way, I've just noticed a lot of people misusing that word, and it's not something that happens on a regular basis at this point (at least by us).

[Mise]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You understand we don't poopsock, right? I don't mean that in an insulting way, I've just noticed a lot of people misusing that word, and it's not something that happens on a regular basis at this point (at least by us).

I understand that you don't sit on spawns with a full raid buffed and ready to go for hours on end waiting for bosses in window, what would be considered an extreme case of "poopsocking".

I don't think I'm misusing the made up word, because at the very least the trackers are gonna be poopsocking it up. I'll concede that it doesn't really extend the term to the rest of the guild, who are sleeping peacefully with their characters buffed and logged out by the spawn waiting for the batphone to ring.

[Kassel]

I dont see how removing variance will change anything. Guilds will just line up (15 ppl camping) earlier and earlier. Poopsocking will increase because people will know exactly how long they have to sock to get a win. WRT to a rotation, on my server there was one during classic it was only ever player enforced, the main problem was when a new guild or alliance wanted to get in on the fun and further diluted the available mobs. The rotation was only ever Classic mobs/planes and fizzled out near the end of Kunark.

[Starklen]

Any system you invent that doesn't overtly force sharing is always going to have the same result, with a different way of getting there. Under the old rules, virtually all of the loot went to two guilds. Under the new rules, pretty much the same. When there was a full server repop, same thing again. This will never change until the quantity of targets increases to the point that even the slowest and least organized guilds can clear to, and kill a boss, before another guild can kill its choice target(s) and come back to it.