I do have drug problems

[Hasbinbad]

Just like any addiction can destroy someones life.

[Hasbinbad]

An accumulation of negative consequences brought about by persistence in a behavior regardless of said negative consequences.

[Hailto]

Yeah, but what are the negative consequences of AA besides defeating your alcoholism?

[Hasbinbad]

But besides that, according to AA dogma (which is admittedly not the only 12 step, tho the VAST majority of 12 step programs are either AA or NA, and the majority of the rest directly model their programs after AA with only slight variation), once you're an alcoholic, there is never a point at which you can start becoming responsible for your own life again. One must continually offer their agency to "their higher power," or they are in relapse and will suffer the judgement of their sponsor and peers.

[Hailto]

I think the point is that you gain responsibility for your own life by putting aside a substance that had you by the balls. AA maintains that once you are an alcoholic you can never drink alcohol again, but that doesn't mean you aren't responsible for your own life, i would consider that to be the contrary.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Hailto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, but what are the negative consequences of AA besides defeating your alcoholism?

That depends on the person, as is true with any addiction. But anecdotally, I have seen 12 step programs engender in people beliefs about reality that have no basis. I've seen people turn away from people that really care about them because they say something that doesn't jive with the freaky doctrine. I've seen people give up everything in life that matters to them in order to conform more with the 12 step lifestyle. I've seen sponsors preying on vulnerable people with no system of checks. The meetings themselves are hotbeds of relapse. Lastly, there is no end to this. I've seen people still down on themselves after being sober for 20+ years. In short, every person I've ever seen go through AA has ended up a burnt out husk of the person they once were.

Just like drugs.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Hailto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that doesn't mean you aren't responsible for your own life, i would consider that to be the contrary.

You do not understand AA then. One of the fundamental features is that you forever give up your agency to a higher power.

[Hasbinbad]

^is a often swept under the rug fact when talking outside of meetings, but having sat through many, it is definitely part of the main focus inside the meeting.

[Hasbinbad]

All of this being said, I absolutely recognize that AA gets a lot of people to stop drinking..

[Hasbinbad]

I just wish they said "ok, you're done now. go live." at SOME point.