Best solo melee class?

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the data, this is great! It lines up with my DPS calculator as well. It is very cool to see the 73 DPS from EC + Whip is 84% of the DPS of Meljeldin's 87 DPS. This is the same percentage difference as the Gargoyle calculation I did earlier:



My DPS calculator shows 71 DPS for EC + Whip, 89 DPS for Baton + Claw, and 85 DPS for Meljeldin against a 44 Warrior, so those numbers line up well too.

As we suspected, you also took significantly less damage with EC + Whip compared to Meljeldin.

You killed 9 Geos in 777 seconds with Meljeldin, and took 18310 damage. I subtracted 1 kill so we would have the same number of kills for both weapons.

You killed 9 Geos in 995 seconds with EC + Whip, and took 11994 damage.

These are the averages:

1. Meljeldin - 86 seconds per kill, and you take 2034 damage per kill.

2. EC + Whip - 110 seconds per kill, and you take 1333 damage per kill.

This means the Meljeldin user gets 24 extra seconds of recovery downtime per kill. I do not believe you can recover the difference of 701 HP in 24 seconds. If someone thinks you can, let us know. I don't know the most optimal recovery setup for solo Rangers.

I'll give an example recovery plan. You will recover 80 mana in 4 med ticks, so you could Greater Healing every other kill. Fungi + Chloroplast + Sitting is 32 HP/Tick, so you could recover like 128 HP (Regen) + 135 HP (Half of Greater Healing) = 263 HP per 24 seconds. EC + Whip is still +438 HP per kill when you include the extra recovery time Meljeldin gives you.

This means EC + Whip should get you more Geo kills per hour than Meljeldin with this setup due to how much HP recovery time you save.

700 dmg is 3 heals, not that big of a deal

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

700 dmg is 3 heals, not that big of a deal

It becomes a big deal over time. If your Ranger has 4200 Max HP, that is 1 full HP bar you need to recover every 6 kills using Meljeldin compared to EC + Whip.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It becomes a big deal over time. If your Ranger has 4200 Max HP, that is 1 full HP bar you need to recover every 6 kills using Meljeldin compared to EC + Whip.

Lmk when ya stop using formula and start actually doing what ya theory craft. Why not roll a ranger?

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so is killing it twice as fast so you aint getting beat on. more dps=less dmg you take. people here dont seem to get that. can slow weapons be optimal? if you have god rng sure. can they be useful in small grouping where you are the tank and the mobs are harder than you can solo ie: juggs? sure. will i use it just grinding blue con mobs? no.

I was very intentionally not trying to put my thumb on the scale. The testing was mostly out of curiosity as I expected more dps = better. Regardless, in this set of RNG I took quite a bit less damage for the same mobs, while killing much slower.

There are many situations where it wouldn’t be optimal. Toss a healer over, or better haste/attack buffs, maybe even Avatar. That said, an extra hundred dec would likely increase my chances of a slow proc…and I had a ton in the 70-80% range with plenty of health left to chew though.

In hindsight a swap to the Cek after a slow would probably good too. After 30 geos I just didn’t want to keep the tests going.

[Cecily]

I think you handicapped yourself hard by not using avatar, especially with the gimmicks. It's huge for Cek sword as well, but you had wolf form for 40/100 atk. I found that archery with a 2 hander especially maintains avatar for like 80% uptime with just pulls without having to force a proc. Very good for goblin hunting in Droga, which is the only use case for a ranger as far I can tell.

Personally I would have swapped to Baton after EC proc and left the whip in offhand to minimize click fatigue. It's not optimal for rune procs but the wangjangling you were doing would drive me insane over an extended hunt.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the data, this is great! It lines up with my DPS calculator as well. It is very cool to see the 73 DPS from EC + Whip is 84% of the DPS of Meljeldin's 87 DPS. This is the same percentage difference as the Gargoyle calculation I did earlier:



My DPS calculator shows 71 DPS for EC + Whip, 89 DPS for Baton + Claw, and 85 DPS for Meljeldin against a 44 Warrior, so those numbers line up well too.

As we suspected, you also took significantly less damage with EC + Whip compared to Meljeldin.

You killed 9 Geos in 777 seconds with Meljeldin, and took 18310 damage. I subtracted 1 kill so we would have the same number of kills for both weapons.

You killed 9 Geos in 995 seconds with EC + Whip, and took 11994 damage.

These are the averages:

1. Meljeldin - 86 seconds per kill, and you take 2034 damage per kill.

2. EC + Whip - 110 seconds per kill, and you take 1333 damage per kill.

This means the Meljeldin user gets 24 extra seconds of recovery downtime per kill. I do not believe you can recover the difference of 701 HP in 24 seconds. If someone thinks you can, let us know. I don't know the most optimal recovery setup for solo Rangers.

I'll give an example recovery plan. You will recover 80 mana in 4 med ticks, so you could Greater Healing every other kill. Fungi + Chloroplast + Sitting is 32 HP/Tick, so you could recover like 128 HP (Regen) + 135 HP (Half of Greater Healing) = 263 HP per 24 seconds. EC + Whip is still +438 HP per kill when you include the extra recovery time Meljeldin gives you.

This means EC + Whip should get you more Geo kills per hour than Meljeldin with this setup due to how much HP recovery time you save.

Thanks for digging into it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

I feel like it could have gone very poorly as well with bad RNG on procs. However, it would have to go abysmal to take more damage per fight (at least based on this small sample). With more Dex, in theory my proc rate would almost double. The last fight I had on the EC/Whip example I didn’t get a slow until around 20%, yet the rune whip must have been helping more than I realized.

Personally the two pieces of info I’m going to think about, are:

1. Just because you don’t get a one-round slow doesn’t mean you shouldn’t hold out a bit longer if the payoff is a 50% reduction.

2. The Whip is not an outstanding weapon so far as BiS goes. It’s not a bad offhand though if you are taking any damage or need the MR. I don’t think the claw would make up for the hps it was offsetting. Claw for the parse; whip for the QoL.

Note: this took a lot longer than the parse time. I expect most melee classes could move much quicker. I tended to end fights at like 10-60% health, even on the top end that isn’t “great” [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] .

I mixed greater healing and sat with the fungi and chloro on. I also refreshed buffs more than needed to make sure they didn’t drop.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you handicapped yourself hard by not using avatar, especially with the gimmicks. It's huge for Cek sword as well, but you had wolf form for 40/100 atk. I found that archery with a 2 hander especially maintains avatar for like 80% uptime with just pulls without having to force a proc. Very good for goblin hunting in Droga, which is the only use case for a ranger as far I can tell.

Personally I would have swapped to Baton after EC proc and left the whip in offhand to minimize click fatigue. It's not optimal for rune procs but the wangjangling you were doing would drive me insane over an extended hunt.

Yea I agree too. I just didn’t want to add variables with the test.

I think the baton would have been very solid compromise.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for digging into it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

I mixed greater healing and sat with the fungi and chloro on. I also refreshed buffs more than needed to make sure they didn’t drop.

No problem! Thanks again for the data, and thanks for letting me know your recovery plan.

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lmk when ya stop using formula and start actually doing what ya theory craft. Why not roll a ranger?

The data is from a real level 60 Ranger. That isn't theorycraft.

Going back to the averages from Snaggle's data:

1. Meljeldin - 86 seconds per kill, and you take 2034 damage per kill.

2. EC + Whip - 110 seconds per kill, and you take 1333 damage per kill.

Standing Regen is 29 HP/Tick with Fungi + Chloroplast. The damage numbers including Regen look like this:

1. Meljeldin - 86 seconds per kill, and you take 1628 damage per kill when accounting for Regen.

2. EC + Whip - 110 seconds per kill, and you take 811 damage per kill when accounting for Regen.

Using Snaggle's recovery plan, Fungi + Chloroplast + Sitting is 32 HP/Tick. Greater Healing costs 150 mana per 270 HP, so you are getting 270 HP per 8 ticks of meditate. That is 34 HP per Tick.

(32 HP per Tick + 34 HP per Tick) / 6 seconds = 11 HP/Second. When you put everything together:

1. Meljeldin - (1628 / 11) = 148 seconds of recovery time + 86 seconds of kill time is 234 seconds per kill.

2. EC + Whip - (811 / 11) = 73 seconds of recovery time + 110 seconds of kill time is 183 seconds per kill.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No problem! Thanks again for the data, and thanks for letting me know your recovery plan.



The data is from a real level 60 Ranger. That isn't theorycraft.

Going back to the averages from Snaggle's data:



Standing Regen is 29 HP/Tick with Fungi + Chloroplast. The damage numbers including Regen look like this:



Using Snaggle's recovery plan, Fungi + Chloroplast + Sitting is 32 HP/Tick. Greater Healing costs 150 mana per 270 HP, so you are getting 270 HP per 8 ticks of meditate. That is 34 HP per Tick.

(32 HP per Tick + 34 HP per Tick) / 6 seconds = 11 HP/Second. When you put everything together:

1. Meljeldin - (1628 / 11) = 148 seconds of recovery time + 86 seconds of kill time is 234 seconds per kill.

2. EC + Whip - (811 / 11) = 73 seconds of recovery time + 110 seconds of kill time is 183 seconds per kill.

You should really try things for yourself, roll a ranger. You could even raid sometimes with us.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should really try things for yourself, roll a ranger. You could even raid sometimes with us.

I know you miss me!

I have also tested the same concept on my Shadowknight using SK Epic vs. Ancient Fire Etched Flamberge.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These tests are attacking the same Geo, getting it down to 20% HP before using Feign Death to reset the mob.

Ancient Fire Etched Flamberge
==============================
3119 HP -> 1882 HP - 1 minute 40 seconds
3119 HP -> 1827 HP - 1 minute 25 seconds
3119 HP -> 2017 HP - 1 minute 25 seconds

3631 damage taken over 270 seconds = Geo does 13.4 DPS to me

SK Epic (This includes Epic Proc Heals)
==============================
3077 HP -> 2750 HP - 1 minute 30 seconds
3077 HP -> 2500 HP - 1 minute 55 seconds
3077 HP -> 2230 HP - 2 minute 06 seconds

1751 damage taken over 331 seconds = Geo does 5.3 DPS to me

I can recover 520 HP/Minute out of combat. 520 / 60 = 8.6 HP/Second.

1. Flamberge - 1210 Damage / 8.6 seconds = 141 seconds recovery time + 90 seconds of kill time is 232 seconds per kill.

2. Sk Epic - 584 Damage / 8.6 seconds = 68 seconds of recovery time + 110 seconds of kill time is 178 seconds per kill.