Verina Tomb

[Sylexis]

Originally Posted by Lickum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess we just wont see eye to eye on this. I personally wouldn't contest this camp knowing that for most the enchanters there its their final piece. If I worked on the rest of the quest, by the time I got toVerina there probably wouldn't be a line. I would never tell anybody they couldn't do something, like I'm some higher power, but I can't say I would sympathize with them.

It's not that I don't think deferring to players who need it as the last piece isn't the right thing to do, but it's not enforceable.

[houwser]

This is Freeid. I agree that the camp is very frustrating. Just had to chip in my rant.

I have been personally sitting on the camp for the past 3 days since window opened. I do go to work and sleep, but I leave my character logged in. When I get home from work until I go to sleep, I am carrying my laptop around the house watching and waiting for her to spawn (about 5-6 hours) a night, and at night I check periodically. This is the last part of epic quest darnit! I'm invested in it.

What bums me out is that it is hard to convince others to come camp it with me to secure a spot where no one could FTE over me (as stated in the rules). So far, I have a few friends bound there to gate, but I hate the pressure of losing the camp because some other guild sees it and happens to be in EC or whatever. I don't expect other players to help me by sitting on it for up to 5 days straight. As of right now, I am going by the rules and understand that a force can just swoop in a knock me out if they wanted to.

So, it would be frustrating to be investing my past 3 week nights just to get swooped out because I cannot mobilize a FTE team in a quick enough time.

In the last two times I have seen her, she has died within 15 minutes of spawning, and there were 2-3 enchanters in contention. Its going to suck if that happens to me, as it did the OP (Kopi). I watched him camp it from Friday to Sunday morning reset, and got beat by a matter of 2 minutes. Not sure if this is the same circumstance as a server reset is a break in gameplay (?) The difference comes down to about 2-3 minutes of who can mobilize quicker.

Right now, I know like half of Divinity is logged/bound there, so I feel threatened that I need to constantly be on top of things. I don't have an issue with that circumstance, and it is a result of the high stakes of the camp and the way FTE rules are setup. I believe that with a force like that, they could probably engage her within 5 minutes of her spawning if word gets out. That sucks for me because it could/may take my guild 8 minutes, yet I have been sitting there for 3-5nights just to get beat out by 3 minutes. In the end, if that does happen, I cannot hate the players, but the way the system is set up.

Something should be done?

[Kassel]

It is really hard to have a rotation when any 3or4 goobers can walk in and destroy it.

It seems odd that there is such a big variance on this mob, is it classic?

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Llabak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From the perspective of the BDA necro at the last spawn. Taken's perspective may well be different:

Last Verina was a bitch of a spawn, went damn near to the end of the window. She popped, and people came running. THere were about 15 or so people in the zone or so, perhaps 4 or 5 taken, 4 BDA, and a smattering of others. I, 56 necro, engaged Verina, being assured that with a 59 cleric, 60 druid and the epic-waiting enchanter we'd have no problem dropping her. 50-something warrior was zoning in as I engaged.

My pet got FTE and then Taken jumped in on the mob. Lostprophets (epic warrior) outdamaged my pet (go fig) and their group got the kill. Their chanter looted the epic piece and they all left.

Their argument was that I we couldn't claim the camp with a necro/cleric/druid/chanter, since that didn't represent "kill force," I think confusing the camping rules (need killing force) with the FTE rules (first to engage on a popped mob wins). BDA petitioned, GM agreed that we had FTE and deserved the loot, and our chanter received the piece.

I'm pleased to note that through it all, Taken and BDA were relatively civil to each other (in non /gu at least giggle), and there wasn't any ugly name calling. I suspect, however, that there are some people on both sides who aren't happy with the way things went, and aren't happy with specific members of the other guild, which is really a shame.

In summation, this whole thing is a giant clusterfuck. It seems like there are permanent trackmules just sitting there in the room staring at the spawn point, and while there's no clickfest like Ragefire, it's still hardly a healthy situation. It would be great if the leadership of the big guilds would get together and hash out a rotation just like Ragefire. I, however, am just a worker bee logging in to kill pixels, and so my opinion isn't worth a whole heck of a lot.

-Berty, BDA Necro

I personally got Verina with 60 enc/sk/sham + 54 sk and it was pretty close (I remember Nlaar and I did practically all of our epic quests together somehow. And for all the forum rage against Coldblooded, she spent a LOT of time helping the guild with these things.). So IMO your kill force is right on the edge, and Taken is not really right, but they are not really wrong either. Of course if Taken didn't engage then your warrior would have zoned in and that would probably push you over the edge.

Really this kind of thing makes me sad. I feel like most of the second tier guilds are just as viciously cutthroat as TMO, they just don't play as much.

[tekniq]

No rotation imo...this is the chance where the tier 2 guilds get to see what's it's like to race for a mob + where drama ensues!

[Kope]

Originally Posted by tekniq [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No rotation imo...this is the chance where the tier 2 guilds get to see what's it's like to race for a mob + where drama ensues!

Can you please elaborate on how this is a positive motive for not implementing a rotation or list.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Kassel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is really hard to have a rotation when any 3or4 goobers can walk in and destroy it.

This is why we need the server on board to implement something like this, something like the chancelor list is actually sounding quite good, so even after most enchanters have their epics, the people who need it can still work towards getting it.

Originally Posted by Kassel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It seems odd that there is such a big variance on this mob, is it classic?

This was explained in one of my previous posts. It was originally intended (on live) for this variance to discourage players from sitting on the spawnpoint where every time the mob spawned the Gms would have to look into the logs of who engaged the mob first. It worked quite well on live, but here things are too cutthroat for this to work. To have a chance at the mob here you must sit on the spawn point for the duration of the variance with guild members camped and/or bound in the room to engage ASAP.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

I think the biggest thing to remember about this camp, as hellish as it is, is that there are a finite number of enchanters on this server, and that finite number does not grow very quickly. On average, 6-8 enchanters per month can get this fight done. Three months from now, this camp will still be annoying for the huge variance, but not likely annoying due to insane competition. Six months from now, it won't be a big deal at all.

The competition and variance work together as a rationing mechanism. For some people, the camp just isn't worth it right now, and that's ok. The current situation is not the way the camp will always be.

[Zinyen]

Originally Posted by Dumesh Uhl'Belk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the biggest thing to remember about this camp, as hellish as it is, is that there are a finite number of enchanters on this server, and that finite number does not grow very quickly. On average, 6-8 enchanters per month can get this fight done. Three months from now, this camp will still be annoying for the huge variance, but not likely annoying due to insane competition. Six months from now, it won't be a big deal at all.

The competition and variance work together as a rationing mechanism. For some people, the camp just isn't worth it right now, and that's ok. The current situation is not the way the camp will always be.

This is how I felt when epics first went in, but every time I go to the room I see more enchanters I've never seen anywhere else in the world before, sitting there.

[Striiker]

Originally Posted by Llabak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From the perspective of the BDA necro at the last spawn. Taken's perspective may well be different:

Last Verina was a bitch of a spawn, went damn near to the end of the window. She popped, and people came running. THere were about 15 or so people in the zone or so, perhaps 4 or 5 taken, 4 BDA, and a smattering of others. I, 56 necro, engaged Verina, being assured that with a 59 cleric, 60 druid and the epic-waiting enchanter we'd have no problem dropping her. 50-something warrior was zoning in as I engaged.

My pet got FTE and then Taken jumped in on the mob. Lostprophets (epic warrior) outdamaged my pet (go fig) and their group got the kill. Their chanter looted the epic piece and they all left.

Their argument was that I we couldn't claim the camp with a necro/cleric/druid/chanter, since that didn't represent "kill force," I think confusing the camping rules (need killing force) with the FTE rules (first to engage on a popped mob wins). BDA petitioned, GM agreed that we had FTE and deserved the loot, and our chanter received the piece.

I'm pleased to note that through it all, Taken and BDA were relatively civil to each other (in non /gu at least giggle), and there wasn't any ugly name calling. I suspect, however, that there are some people on both sides who aren't happy with the way things went, and aren't happy with specific members of the other guild, which is really a shame.

In summation, this whole thing is a giant clusterfuck. It seems like there are permanent trackmules just sitting there in the room staring at the spawn point, and while there's no clickfest like Ragefire, it's still hardly a healthy situation. It would be great if the leadership of the big guilds would get together and hash out a rotation just like Ragefire. I, however, am just a worker bee logging in to kill pixels, and so my opinion isn't worth a whole heck of a lot.

-Berty, BDA Necro

I'll add my commentary to this thread as I have been personally involved with some of the commentary here and have felt the sting of losing the spawn to another force etc.

So, I was the <Taken> enchanter referenced by Berty. It was indeed a crappy camp. This was my third shot at Verina. My First camp was lost to BDA as they got a force capable of killing her first and we watched them kill her. My warrior arrived about 30 seconds after they engaged. I congratulated the enchanter and I was happy for him (and yeah, a little jealous) :-) My second camp got interrupted as my daughter was visiting and I left the camp to spend time with her and another <Taken> enchanter took over. My third attempt was the one referenced by Berty above. A Lvl 56 Necro pet along with the force mentioned above was not capable of killing a lvl 60 Cleric mob nor would it have lasted long enough if your warrior made it in a couple of minutes later (I don't know where your warrior was zoning into but I never saw him in zone as the attack was under way). Our warrior (lvl 60 with epic) saw what you had and attacked 9 seconds after your pet did as his interpretation of the posted rules was that you did not have a force capable of killing the camped mob. (I'm guessing you saw that our warrior was in zone and decided to take a gamble by attacking her) On the server though, FTE trumps other rules and we should have waited for you to wipe. There was never a dispute that you were FTE, just that you were not first to the camp with a kill force capable. It was akin to kiting a dragon. Yes, you are engaged but you can't kill it. I'll skip any other thoughts or notions on this part as it will drag on and on.
Our guild leader communicated with the BDA guild leader to see about a compromise and in the end we agreed to hand over the drop and Amelinda facilitated it (without investigating). I agree that both sides handled the dispute well.
I decided to camp her again (4th time) and started tracking her about a day after her window opened up and Kopi and I had a pleasant conversation (as did Freeid and I). The server was repopped and Kopi had most of his force ready to go but no warrior. <Taken> got our force there and got the kill (finally).
I felt relief at finally getting this behind me but I also felt badly for those yet to get their kill. I agree that this camp should get on a rotation similar to Ragefire (ugh, and I've been doing that camp a lot too). An agreement should be reached with the guilds to rotate this mob. To those who feel that unguided enchanters should be included, I disagree. Verina Tomb and a few other of the mobs can be killed with a strong group but there are other pieces which really need a larger force which pretty much needs a guild. (The Prince in Chardok and the Wraith in Fear really do need a raid force to get to in my opinion and I am sure some will disagree.) I do urge the guilds to work up a rotation. Perhaps a meeting can be held with representatives of each of the capable guilds to agree to a rotation etc. Just doing this through the message boards is not going to succeed as there will be people throwing in comments and criticisms and the conversation will go nowhere.