Necromancer or Enchanter - dungeon charming?

[Spyder73]

Necro is great fun. I have leveled mine up to 55 or 56 doing primarily charming...you can split rooms with snare/FD and root rot to get a good break. Plus necro is just cooler than enchanter lore wise

[Raev]

I always wanted to like the necromancer class, but I just couldn't. The class is just too weak in Velious IMO. Basically you have a choice:

• Gimp Enchanter. You do get lifetaps, FD, and an efficient heal over time. They don't remotely make up for charm-anything, clarity, haste, tash, slow, calm, and fast casting AE stun/AE mez for breaks.
• Gimp Monk. Necros are hugely underrated here, but in the end 1.5s casting time FD/Harmshield simply aren't as good as instant FD/Stonestance, massively higher HP/AC/defensive skills, and Sneak. And you'll probably have to ditch your pet to make it happen.
• Gimp Mage. Necro skeletons really are much weaker than Magician elementals (especially the ridiculous epic pet), and your best dots don't have enough time to tick in a group.

You can level quickly with charm, but at 60 you can't handle summoning mobs very well at all. Your best bet is to duo with a Shaman, but pretty much anything you can duo the Shaman can solo, just more slowly.

Now, fast foward to Luclin and things change a LOT. Death Peace means Necros get two chances to FD in under 3 seconds - great for drawing stuff out with Elder Beads. Specific immunities rather than full MR and dot stacking means that Necromancers can do massive damage on raids, and tougher content means more time for dots to tick.

[Kawhi]

I don't know much about shaman high end soloing. I am curious what they do (say in HS South) to deal with summoners? In particular, what are they doing to deal with summoners that necros can't do?

[Llodd]

I'd assume they would simply tank through the damage with torpor, but there are better places for shamans to farm $$$ gear. HS is rough, the risk v reward isnt nearly as good as other places, particulary for a shaman. Strings and FD ring would certainly make things alot easier.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Kawhi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what are they doing to deal with summoners that necros can't do?

Giving shamans a cheap, fast casting spell that reduces damage by 75% is one of the EQ design team's biggest errors. Or maybe it could work if EQ had a Diablo-style percentage resistance system (rather than full/resist randomly and players can just recast).

[Kawhi]

Ahh yeah I see. You can just slow them then deal with the damage.

Bastards!

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Kawhi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ahh yeah I see. You can just slow them then deal with the damage.

Bastards!

Well... slow, torpor, regen buffs, much better AC and defense and dodge and hit points, more resist buffs to deal with casters, cures to deal with casters, slam to deal with casters...

Shamans are innately a lot tougher than a necro, and the spells they have GREATLY multiply the fact that they are already tougher.

[nevilshute]

I play a 60 necro here and played a chanter on live from Kunark up to and including early Dragons of Norrath.

I think it comes down to convenience vs power level. The chanter has the higher ceiling and his application is wider for the obvious reason of not being limited to undeads. The chanter also has more raw power in his immediate toolbox of mezzes, pbaoe stuns and harmonies.

But what the necro lacks in these departments he more than makes up for in terms of just sheer utility overload. With a necro you will:

-die much less frequently due to FD and Harmshield
-(nearly) always be able to afk at an instant with FD if things go poorly and you need to reset, or if someone's at the door / your baby wakes up etc.
-be able to track your corpse and summon your corpse if you die
-be able to 93 % rez yourself for a ~300pp component.

All of these things are incredibly important to soloing if you ask me.

In comparison the chanter is just incredibly fragile. The chanter has other pros in other aspects of the game such as grouping etc but that's not what you're asking here.

Probably the chanter will be able to do some specific camps the necro can't but the opposite is also true.

In terms of the examples of zones you give I only really have experience from HS where a necro is quite strong. It's also a very high-risk dungeon and so FD really shines. Chanter soloing there is also very much viable.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by nevilshute [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In comparison the chanter is just incredibly fragile.

In what ways is an enchanter more fragile than a necro? Necros can lifetap and harmshield and feign. But chanters have slow, stuns, and more runes. If you think a chanter is "fragile" because they die quickly when they just stand there getting beat on without casting any spells, then you have to agree a necro is equally fragile.

Originally Posted by nevilshute [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Probably the chanter will be able to do some specific camps the necro can't but the opposite is also true.

Eh. A necro can probably do almost anything an enchanter can... but it is way harder to the point of being unrealistic. Chanters, on the other hand, I'm pretty sure can solo 99.99% of the spots that a necro can as well or better.

Originally Posted by nevilshute [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In terms of the examples of zones you give I only really have experience from HS where a necro is quite strong. It's also a very high-risk dungeon and so FD really shines. Chanter soloing there is also very much viable.

Necros are great for XPing in HS or for killing nameds in North (Teppler!)... but as I've said again and again, I always see necros talking about how necros can do south (or east)... but I've never ever seen anyone with proof of anyone actually doing it. Chanters, meanwhile? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


I still stick with my initial assertion that enchanters are just purely more powerful while necros have more convenience when soloing. I can't even say that necros have more convenience overall though, it's just different. Chanters have illusions, non-restricted lulls, bind sight, etc. There's quite a bit that can be said about that stuff compared to corpse summon, rez, night-only evac, etc.

[Izmael]

What camp can be done by a necro but not an enc?