FE Raid Scene Proposal

[Exmo]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Camping forces is 10000000% a main issue nobody really wants to discuss, but it should be abolished completely.

The only way to Abolish it is a technical Solution (Succor all Camped PC's in the zone upon mob spawn) But they don't want to implement technical solutions.

Otherwise there's just going to be rules Layering about how they were camped for Tola/Prot or some such bullshit.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Exmo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only way to Abolish it is a technical Solution (Succor all Camped PC's in the zone upon mob spawn) But they don't want to implement technical solutions.

Otherwise there's just going to be rules Layering about how they were camped for Tola/Prot or some such bullshit.

Let 6 people camp tola then!

Camping juggs with 6 is fine, with 26 is a blatant violation.

[doraf]

Originally Posted by Exmo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem I see here is that you've set aside certain mobs for t1, period end of discussion. What mobs are in t1 and t2 should be rotated some, even if it's 4/1 for CT/Inny/Trak/VS.

You need to allow the t2 guilds to occasionally see a Wizard/Necro/Ranger/Druid/etc. epic and those fights, which they wont if forced to compete against a camped force.

They can do whatever they want as long as they can get into the respective tier for the given period of time.

Other than that, they can do whatever they want for 2 weeks every month.

On top of that, I already said we would be completely willing to make it even easier for Tier Two guilds to bump to Tier One.

[Exmo]

Originally Posted by doraf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They can do whatever they want as long as they can get into the respective tier for the given period of time.

Other than that, they can do whatever they want for 2 weeks every month.

On top of that, I already said we would be completely willing to make it even easier for Tier Two guilds to bump to Tier One.

They don't want to bump up to Tier One though, they want a shot at CT/Inny/Vs/Trak without competing with TMO/FE/BDA.

T1 involves a Batphone and High Numbers for Fast Engages.

T2 is Prime time raiding or at least more controlled engages.

That's my point. If Azure Guard or Taken or whatever is pressured by other, more organized guilds (Like Last nights ct for instance) they don't get the Kill.

You have to make Ct/Inny/Trak/VS cycle into the controlled t2 protected time, otherwise these guilds will never see a kill. Even if there is an FFA period.

[Tanthallas]

Originally Posted by Exmo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They don't want to bump up to Tier One though, they want a shot at CT/Inny/Vs/Trak without competing with TMO/FE/BDA.

The goal is to make the content AVAILABLE contingent on guilds WILLING to agree on a SYSTEM of their availability. Devising a new system of content availability does not mean there are zero boundaries and we should all be hugging and dancing naked in the rain. We are all still competitors, we are all still different guilds; what we are trying to do here is make the competitive scene itself less cutt-throat, NOT eliminate the competitive scene itself.

This proposal makes everything available, and is flexible enough to allow for modifications that can avoid the more devious forms of competition which were the main reason that most guilds were cockblocked out of progression in the past. The Tier system merely recognizes the fact that some guilds are more try hard than others - but it also leaves the door open for guilds who wish to put in a push here or there, or maintain their Tiered status that they achieve. There is no guarantee that one guild or another will make their Tier, nor is there a guarantee that one guild or another will maintain their Tier.

[Exmo]

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The goal is to make the content AVAILABLE contingent on guilds WILLING to agree on a SYSTEM of their availability. Devising a new system of content availability does not mean there are zero boundaries and we should all be hugging and dancing naked in the rain. We are all still competitors, we are all still different guilds; what we are trying to do here is make the competitive scene itself less cutt-throat, NOT eliminate the competitive scene itself.

This proposal makes everything available, and is flexible enough to allow for modifications that can avoid the more devious forms of competition which were the main reason that most guilds were cockblocked out of progression in the past. The Tier system merely recognizes the fact that some guilds are more try hard than others - but it also leaves the door open for guilds who wish to put in a push here or there, or maintain their Tiered status that they achieve. There is no guarantee that one guild or another will make their Tier, nor is there a guarantee that one guild or another will maintain their Tier.

Everything is available to them now. How many trak's has Azure Guard/Taken/etc. etc. Gotten?

Theory and practice are different, and you're assuming that "completing" against TMO is making a kill available, and that's simply wrong.

[-Catherin-]

tier two guilds don't really want it to be made easier to be bumped into tier 1, because they don't want to be in tier 1. They don't like the tier 1 playstyle nor can they commit to it. forcing a tier 2 guild that did not want to enter tier 1 would effectively destroy that guild.

These two tiers are different playstayles, not different skills.

[Tanthallas]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

tier two guilds don't really want it to be made easier to be bumped into tier 1, because they don't want to be in tier 1. They don't like the tier 1 playstyle nor can they commit to it. forcing a tier 2 guild that did not want to enter tier 1 would effectively destroy that guild.

These two tiers are different playstayles, not different skills.

Yes - and noone is forced to do anything. You can CHOOSE if you want to be in Tier One or not, conditional, of course, on meeting the requirements. If you want to get into Tier One for a 2 month period merely for the rotation of the mobs that are not in Tier Two, go ahead and do it and then go back to Tier Two when you are done.

It is completely another thing for people to say that they are being systematically denied entry into a Tier, however, for this is clearly not the case.

[falkun]

Considering your (doraf) posts here and in Raid Discussion, here is my attempt to alter your rules to preclude tier1 from blocking entry into T2:

Maestro will be added to T1 rotation schedule, but T1FFA will not engage Maestro.

At this point, T2 will instantly put FFA-Maestro on rotation so that all guilds kill him once in a two-month period and they can remain on the rotation. Except now the mob is rotated, what you didn't want...My point here is that tier2 does not want the competition, tier2 wants the rotation. So develop a system where tier2 can rotate and tier1 can FFA, like the Divinity plan, or Rogean's proposal.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I Support amicable guilds! in no small part because of the support garnered by most guilds and people and it represents the wishes and desires of the super majority through compromise.

I would like to point out that in my opinion all of the "tier 2 guilds" have shown a propensity to work together as far as communication and being fair. While all of these guilds most certainly have a desire to kill raid mobs, they are also the ones who are reasonable, are willing to compromise and aren't trying to suppress the majority of the server. They aren't the ones training, stirring up rants and flames, and creating headaches with frapsquest and forumquest. In short the ones acting like more mature citizens of this server. I have no doubt the 'tier 2 guilds' won't be trying to hurt the other as far as epics, conversely I actually see cooperation and communication coming in those areas.

Quite simply I see people who want everything, and those who are willing to share. I see a collection of guilds who attend meetings to hash out a proposal they all can agree on on, regardless of whether or not it benefits them completely, and I see guilds who keep throwing up their own proposals almost haphazardly on the forums in what seems to me a desperate attempt to further their own desires; which, if you will pardon me, by actions for years on this server have shown to be nothing but selfish and petty. taunting the server with the fact guildbanks have 400 extra Cloak of flames, or Trakanon teeth, or AONS, or whatever item whatever guild in the past has listed has led to this. Maybe if you could have sufficed with 300 extra Trakanon teeth as opposed to 400, or whatever the number was/is things would be different. While I do not recommend we cling to the past, we must certainly take people at what their actions and deeds say, and the history of those very actions and deeds speaks for itself and has led us to this point. Those who fail to learn from history...

There is NOTHING preventing guilds from sharing or working together in more depth than the Divinity plan proposes, all that proposal does is lay a foundation to ensure there is SOME cooperation, sharing, fairness, or what have you. To suggest Divinity and Azure Guard (as an example) will be at odds over epic pieces is ludicrous to me. Perhaps the reason certain people cannot see things differently is because we see things as we are, not as they actually are. And it speaks volumes that the dissenting guilds to the Divinity proposal on the server are throwing new proposals up left and right incessantly in an effort to seemingly avoid what everyone else wants. Rogean specifically has expressed a desire to have things change, and there are direct quotes concerning this.

Server staff are tired of having one guild take raids to such hardcore extremes that they shit all over everyone else and make headaches for the server staff and the rest of the player base.

I'll sum this specific post in saying you have no one to blame for this but yourselves. And by you, I mean everyone who has been in a position at the top as far as raid content goes and had the capability to not be quite as selfish. I'm not judging anyone for wanting more for themselves, but IF one of those guilds had decided to (upon achieving that dominant position) decided to allow the more casual players to have shots at mobs, or allow people to get epics in some form of cooperation, we would not be here.

Now those who are in a position to make the server a better place for EVERYONE are the ones who have in essence, been shit on, for years. You have no one to blame but yourselves. WE have no one to blame but ourselves.

Originally Posted by Rogean
Whether you agree with it or not, we are no longer letting one or two guilds kill everything.

Deal with it.

Discussions will be kept in the raid discussion forum now.