Game Mechanics: PVP Charm/Fear

[Knuckle]

endless instant gate pots and hoop faggotry? not classic to be exploitable and well known. fear working in pvp quite classic via proof, make instant gates lore or make fear work in pvp if not.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Kruel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there are allot of spells that are unfortunate for pvp.. like how a enchanter can see you running invis through a zone you are KOS in, and just straight mez / root / keep you perma stund while trying to bank. (this actually happened to me).


You are not reproducing an exploit when the game we are trying to emulate allowed it. Allot of spells can be exploitative.. but if they were classic then you have to allow it. I really feel when you pick and choose what to allow and what not to allow its BS. This is the first thing i have seen on p99 that isnt original and was intentionally left out because someone just didnt want it to work like classic.

I was referring to being able to fear people behind walls and zonelines..

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Kruel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

one thing at a time, first thing is the purposefully nerfed spells for no reason other than.. it kinda sucks if someone casts this on you around mobs.

Game mechanics like training, griefing, cursing, play nice policy are the policy of the staff and people who run this server. Other than that all spells and abilities should remain as they were in classic.

You're right, I did get carried away. I do agree with the OP. Many of the abilities and mechanics that made EverQuest immersive, fresh, and original were later deemed to be bugs and removed. That is why we are on P99 and not P2010.

Obviously game breaking overpowered things, such as hoops (in PvP), should be at least slightly nerfed in some way (in PvP).

Really the only way to relive the original experience, which the grand majority of us are here for, is to accurately emulate the original experience. We seem to be drifting rather far from this ideal lately, but it is harder to own on a PvP server, because it has to be a mixture of the two best PvP server rulesets. IE: item loot from Rallos Zek and everything else from Sullon Zek. Oops, there I go again.

[Clutchy]

Evidence that Fear was in and should be in. Come on, if we're going to have things like hoops and gate pots then least we can have is Fear in PVP. It's not much worse than people snaring players already engaged in mobs.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Clutchy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Evidence that Fear was in and should be in. Come on, if we're going to have things like hoops and gate pots then least we can have is Fear in PVP. It's not much worse than people snaring players already engaged in mobs.

So you're not going to address what I already mentioned twice about fear being exploitable? On other pvp servers where fear was enabled (like King and Bandits) people were often feared behind zonelines or inside of walls, and while I know p99 is coded much better, I'm sure there's still a chance of this being possible here as well.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you're not going to address what I already mentioned twice about fear being exploitable?

Exploitable how?

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On other pvp servers where fear was enabled (like King and Bandits) people were often feared behind zonelines or inside of walls, and while I know p99 is coded much better, I'm sure there's still a chance of this being possible here as well.

Oh I see, on another server with totally different code it sometimes didn't work properly. Good one. This nearly attains the usual standard of your reasoning.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exploitable how?



Oh I see, on another server with totally different code it sometimes didn't work properly. Good one. This nearly attains the usual standard of your reasoning.

I'm pretty sure I'm responding to a troll but I figured I'd inform you that zone geometry is pretty much the same across servers. Also they haven't coded fear for pvp here so it would probably work the same as on servers that just use the default PEQ code. To make it non-exploitable they'd have to waste precious dev time on something they're very quickly going to take out anyway, and that's assuming it's even possible for them to code fear so that it can't be exploited. This is just my guess for why it's not being included based on my admittedly limited knowledge of the subject.

I'd also like to add that fear has a much higher probability of making people aggro mobs and take exp deaths than other similar spells, since (a) the player doesn't have to be aggroed onto the NPC before fear is cast (you can fear someone into nearby NPC's for example), and (b) fear doesn't wear off once the player is hit (like with mez). Crission's pixie strike is still okay because if you push someone into mobs, the mobs will break the mez and the player can still escape, so it's not as likely to induce an exp death. Also, if you fear someone in a situation where there are nearby KOS NPC's, there's a high chance you'll cause a train and kill OOR players as well.

Arguing with you guys is pointless though since you'll probably just ignore the bulk of what I'm saying or misinterpret it somehow.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

zone geometry is pretty much the same across servers. Also they haven't coded fear for pvp here so it would probably work the same as on servers that just use the default PEQ code. To make it non-exploitable they'd have to waste precious dev time on something they're very quickly going to take out anyway, and that's assuming it's even possible for them to code fear so that it can't be exploited. This is just my guess for why it's not being included based on my admittedly limited knowledge of the subject.

This is a good enough reply regarding the arguments against due to code/devtime, though I suspect that you, like me, have very little idea what it would entail. We are probably way off.

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd also like to add that fear has a much higher probability of making people aggro mobs and take exp deaths than other similar spells, since (a) the player doesn't have to be aggroed onto the NPC before fear is cast (you can fear someone into nearby NPC's for example), and (b) fear doesn't wear off once the player is hit (like with mez). Crission's pixie strike is still okay because if you push someone into mobs, the mobs will break the mez and the player can still escape, so it's not as likely to induce an exp death. Also, if you fear someone in a situation where there are nearby KOS NPC's, there's a high chance you'll cause a train and kill OOR players as well.

With the high amount of exp death that is caused on this server and goes unpunished, it seems like it never will. To say it is overpowered is disingenuous... SoW is overpowered. Root is overpowered. This is not a good enough reason to not include a classic spell, and it is the bulk of most arguments against it.

Let there be Classic, and the spells shall fall how they may.

[Critical]

Patches from July 2002 - December 2002

Stand Out Occurrences:
- New interface goes live (July 24)
- The Bazaar is introduced (July 24)
- Lifetappers no longer say "Ahhh... I feel much better now!" with every spell (July 24)
- Players are no longer susceptible to other players' fears and charms (July 24)
- /makeleader command introduced & LD group member no longer bugs the group (July 24)
- You can now view and/or delete your own petitions (Sept. 4)
- Hell levels are eliminated (Sept. 4)
- DoT spells cast by different players on an NPC now stack (Sept. 4)
- Clerics gain the Bash ability (Sept. 4)
- Merchant inventories grow to 80 (Sept. 4)
- Items are now linked in the "... has looted an X" messages (Sept. 26)
- Recast times are added to Rods of Mystical Transvergence (Sept. 26)
- Rods of Mystical Transvergence no longer kill you if your max-hitpoints are lower than the conversion (Oct. 17)
- /shield is introduced (Oct. 17)
- Planes of Power goes live (Oct. 21)

Reference: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...es-2002-2.html


** PvP **

- Fixed a bug on Tallon and Vallon Zek that made player characters in
non-human illusions immune to ranged attacks.
- It is no longer possible for PC's to fear other PC's at all on any
server. The same was also done for charm.
- Pets can no longer be affected by charm spells. This should fix the
issue that caused charm spells to make pets disappear.
- NPCs who are pets of players and call for help from other NPCs will
have their cries fall on deaf ears


The reason I am posting this is because I am an actual veteran from Rallos Zek I started during Release and quit during Planes of Power. I was pvp'ing with someone who claimed to be a VZ veteran and he claimed that fear and charm was nerfed in PVP during classic. I knew for 100% sure it was Luclin era, and told him so... I am now posting this along with many other bug fixes to make this server as close to classic as possible. It seems we have a large number of people claiming to know how EQ was during classic. The link referenced has all patch notes from release to Velious and on... Therefore we should be following that time line, and we are not doing so in any way currently.

[Critical]

Also to add, the only thing that was nerfed Fear wise in PVP was AoE fear's in classic, they no longer affected PC's.

------------------------------
March 29, 2000
------------------------------

This morning's update consisted primarily of server-side changes to
improve performance of the game engine in general. No items, spawns,
spells (with the exceptions below), etc., were changed as a result of
this patch.

Area Effect "Fear" spells will no longer work in PvP. This affects a
bard song, as well as the Cleric "Wave of Fear" spell.

Corrected a bug with some of the Resurrection spells that caused them
to return too little experience.

We plan on publishing data and item changes next week if all goes well
on the Test server. We apologize to those who are inconvenienced by
having to wait for the expected changes.

- The EverQuest Team

Reference: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...es-2000-1.html