This is retarded

[Vyal]

Originally Posted by Ikonoclastia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well now your being more respectful I'll explain some things to you.

We have about 10 links from different boards all in the day saying there was lazy aggro meaning if you got out of range the mob would stop chasing you.

We have evidence though unverified of someone who wrote in 2000 that it was a couple of dozen feet out of casting range.

We have 3 or 4 posts from different sources saying that for a year after Kunark was released assist range (call for help from a mob) was greater than chase range.

We have Sony saying that that was as intended.

We then have Sony a year later saying it was a bug.

If chase range has been huge like you claim then when you attacked a mob that mob mob would have called for help in Chardok or any other zone in Kunark. Given your claim that chase range was huge and given that we know, from contemporaneous posts and Sony saying it was call for help range was greater than chase range, you would have aggroed every mob in chase range by attacking a single mob. Since that never happened, the whole of Kunark would have be completely broken we can assume that chase range was pretty damn small, which seems to verify the claim of the poster who said it was "a couple of dozen feet out of casting range".

Your strawman argument that I never aoe'd or whatever is nonsense. I played multiple characters to 80 in EQ from the close to beginning of vanilla.

I was in a raiding guild and we pulled the Overking to zone many times which is why when I heard about what you are doing in Chardok here I knew it was a bug. Getting just the Overking to zone was a nightmare because if you ran to far he'd go back to spawn, if you stayed close he'd cast blind and other spells on you and kill you, you had to fairly skilfully manage him the entire way up to the zonein. Trying to do that with 180 mobs, a good percentage of which were casters, would be 180 times harder, in fact it would be completely impossible without dying or losing the mobs to lazy aggro.

The way to do it was to run him up, when he stopped to cast you had to stop, duck round a corner to prevent being cast on, wait for him and so on. There's no way you can do that with even 50 mobs because half of them are melee and will pound you while the other are trying to cast on you. You get it now?

You pulled the overking to zone many times uh huh...
Through the locked door - past 40 Dizok then past a hundred mobs.

[Ikonoclastia]

Originally Posted by Vyal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You pulled the overking to zone many times uh huh...
Through the locked door - past 40 Dizok then past a hundred mobs.

Yeah. I thought you were the expert and I didn't know anything. Why am I explaining very known mechanics to you.

Its called secondary aggro pulling. Rogue and Enchanter with at least dubious faction. Could also use a few exploits (eye of zom, potions) to get through door. Pacify the kings guards, root one, which aggros the king. King has secondary aggro so he doesn't pass on aggro to other mobs he runs up. Escort him up as explained. By the time the root wears off you'll be out of aggro range so that mob will just sit there doing nothing.

[Gaffin 7.0]

pity reply

[Ikonoclastia]

Trains are easy to explain.

A train is created by someone running from a mob, the mob keeps pace with the person or not far behind. As the person comes into range of other mobs the other mobs aggro and keep pace behind the person. As long as the mob is moving fast enough to keep inside the chase range of the person training then all the mobs will stick.

If the person is sowed and can outrun the mobs in any of those mentioned dungeons fast enough to get out of the mobs chase range on live then the mobs will stop following you.

Since the majority of players running from mobs won't have sow or be able to use jboots the mobs will usually all keep up until the person dies or they zone.

[Ikonoclastia]

Oh also, regarding blackburrow - the reason you could pull such trains is because lazy aggro ignores the z-axis. Blackburrow is basically 3 levels, one atop the other around the same grid.

Chardok has a few areas where the grid overlaps levels so the z axis is ignored there and you could pull a decent amount of mobs through that z axis but most of it resides in its own grid area and so it's nowhere near similar in terms of trains from below.

[Vyal]

Originally Posted by Ikonoclastia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh also, regarding blackburrow - the reason you could pull such trains is because lazy aggro ignores the z-axis. Blackburrow is basically 3 levels, one atop the other around the same grid.

Chardok has a few areas where the grid overlaps levels so the z axis is ignored there and you could pull a decent amount of mobs through that z axis but most of it resides in its own grid area and so it's nowhere near similar in terms of trains from below.

The z from tag mob to tag mob is a hellva lot bigger in dok then blackburrow.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

<<Lots of incoherent rambling because this fag ACTUALLY MADE A FORUMS ACCT because he was so terrified of having to actually play the game and just had to "jump in and end this nonsense.">>

When a thread is still doing that at page 18 I'm gonna keep it right on going /popcorn

[Ikonoclastia]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what you are basically saying is that you COULD basically be non-kos, run down in Chardok, tag a mob without SoW and DA/feign "walk" your way up and be able to still get around 60 mobs atleast back in 1999 based on those mechanics? OR you could easily SoW/DA grab all the melee mobs and all the casters and since you said the z axis is overlapping in majority of Chardok, and yes this true, it is bigger in Chardok than Blackburrow, minus royals which no one pulls for AE, and still get a decent size pull based on the Z axis? There is atleast 20 mobs from Captain area to ent alone. You still have a flaw too, if all the casters stopped to cast, then you would lose them in the process because as you supposedly said, the lazy agro would kick in. Therefore you'd only get non-casters in a train which also didn't happen on live. You're spinning circles now.

Yeah you could single pull King like I described.

As for the rest, your saying that, I disagree. DA doesn't last long enough.

[Ikonoclastia]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just wanted to say I never do Chardok AoE, I know people that do and I've sat around a few times to see exactly how it is done and I just want to clarify a few things that a certain person doesn't seem to get.



There is a few things that don't really make sense in this post but the way you come off is pretty much jealous and mad because people are leveling faster than you or making platinum off something. Majority of the people doing the AoE are normally alts of people who have already leveled a character to 60 before. They are trying to skip the hard levels to experience the raid scene or have another raid ready character for end-game content. Just because you spent 200 hours in Karnors instead of 50 hours in Karnors and the rest in Chardok, doesn't mean you must have missed something in the game, you can figure out how zones/mobs are set-up pretty quickly, especially if you've played the game before. As far as the fun of leveling, I'd say I enjoy leveling but I also enjoy end-game raids and other things of that nature, so this speeds up the process for some people.

Majority of people cannot afford Chardok proxy 40-60 or don't want to sit in Chardok for 40-60/don't get on the list all the time. The people that do, already have leveled a character to 60. You keep using the word "stealing," like these people are stealing your experience from leveling or fun or whatever it may be. This isn't true, it has already been established that no one really ventures into Chardok because it sucks other than for AoE/pipe/royals until revamp; if a group were to venture into Chardok, the AoE group would have to compromise and give up the camp. And then the blatant fact that if it wasn't Chardok people would be doing some other classic mechanic for PL and people would still be spending their platinum for PL. The people who want to spend money for PL, always will. It's already stated this game has been out too long and everyone knows what to do with mobs or can figure out some different way to PL. In that regards, you will not gain any extra people leveling to join you because the people that want PL, will still do it. The people who PL, will find another way as there are already a few. And the only basis you have is one or two articles saying that mobs leashed to you but separate accounts on how far they leashed, which wouldn't even make sense as a game mechanics having different zones AND mobs with different leash mechanics. I'm not saying they didn't leash, I'm just saying that there is no way to tell how far they leashed and what was all effected in a zone like Chardok where the Z axis is huge. Sony did a good job for the most part but shit like that, they have always been lazy. There is no way to determine if it was possible back in 1999 because on the differences of latency, and since technology has changed, you have no actual facts to your argument.

You we'rent suppose to take that post seriously. It was tongue in cheek.... jubuzz

As for your wall of text rant:

You Wrote:

And the only basis you have is one or two articles saying that mobs leashed to you but separate accounts on how far they leashed, which wouldn't even make sense as a game mechanics having different zones AND mobs with different leash mechanics.

1. I actually posted 20 articles by page 15, more further on. Not 1 or two.
2. I specifically stated which zones were referenced in terms of where posters stated distances that mobs leashed.
3. Mobs with different leash mechanics - I have not seen mentioned nor mentioned mobs having different leash mechanics. You made that up.

You also wrote:

there is no way to tell how far they leashed and what was all effected in a zone like Chardok

1. Actually there is a way to tell how far they leashed, quite a number of ways.
a) in era posts
b) in era vids
c) out of era posts
c) out of era vids

So far we have players from that era saying leash sizes were:

LOIO - "visual range"
Chardok - "a couple of dozen feet out of casting range"
WW - "visual range"
Sebilis - Trak banishing from his lair = no summoning, no aggro (outside lazy aggro)
Sebilis - Trak banishing after being pulled to bridge, summons, chases (inside lazy aggro)
Chardok - "training from entrance all the way to royals with sow and invis dropping aggro as long as the last 20 to 30 mobs before royals are being cleared".

There's plenty of evidence left that I haven't posted, literally thousands of posts.

Your argument is really not a very good one imo, your argument proposes "its not classic but since we don't know the exact aggro ranges for every mob in every zone (and making an assumption they didn't just follow 1 lazy aggro radius per zone rule) then lazy aggro, which was huge part of the Kunark and following expansions should just be ignored.

As for the skipping leveling, its not just 10 levels being skipped, its almost 400 million xp points of the 600 million required or 66% of the leveling that a character needs to get to level 60. That's a massive exploit, not just players wanting to get to 60 by PL. PL is fine and was classic. This was definitely not classic.

[Ikonoclastia]

One more thing and I think this is the best way to tell that mobs leash was in general very short:

FACT: When Kunark released, the range of call for help was erroneously GREATER than the range of lazy aggro.

This meant that if you had mobs (Seb for example) staggered in pairs and you attacked the first pair, the second pair further down would get the call for help and aggro on you but would not add because you were still out of their lazy aggro.

FACT: Sony stated that this was working as intended.

FACT: In 2001 Sony patched out the bug, patch notes clearly show this, stating that the call for help was too large and that's why people were getting the auto-pulling problem.

Auto-pulling was basically where you sat down somewhere and started pulling mobs x and y, a mob z not far away but outside lazy aggro range would get the call for help and start broadcasting its own call for help. When your original mobs x and y repopped, they would catch mob z's call for help and bee line onto your party meaning you didn't have to pull at all.