Suggestions For Wizards

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So basically you are saying that a great wizard plays like a gimped enchanter.

Don't get me wrong, Wizards are a great raid class, arguably the single best raid class in Kunark and still very good in Velious, but for XP groups a bit of simple math can convince you that they suck.

If my group was War/Monk/Shm/Enc/Clr and I had a choice between a Paladin and a Wizard, I'd take the Paladin . . . who can do all the same CC a wizard can, while also tanking and letting the Warrior berserk for twice the wizard's dps.

Of course all this min/max is nothing compared to picking players that are fun to chat with [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A good Wizard is always on the brink of aggro. Doing more damage than this good Wizard will immediately put you on top of the aggro list. Especially one you say does twice the Wizards DPS. Unless it is a rogue with evade or some class that has aggro reduction. If that warrior is doing twice the DPS that the Wizard is there is no point in having the Paladin because he wont be seeing aggro at all. Not to mention you are taking a risk of letting someone with low health tank the mob and probably dying because his agility has been reduced to garbage. Absolutely terrible scenario.

If this was the case just run around with 5 warriors and a cleric and keep them all in berserk mode. The rest of the classes in EQ can sit on the sidelines and watch them get reamed.

And no a Wizard is not a gimped Enchanter. A wizards DD's are far superior in every way. More damage, and no refresh. Enchanters have nice dmg'ing spells no doubt. But they are incomparable to that of a Wizard. Dimentia I think is an Enchanters best damaging spell hitting for 675 max, with an 8 second refresh timer and a 6 second casting time. Sunstrike is the Wizards highest damaging spell that has a 7 second cast time and only 2.25 second refresh timer and hits for 1615 damage. It's not even close.

[Splorf22]

I put that first sentence because the OP was talking about this 'great wizard' who did a lot of stuns and roots, i.e. played like a enchanter, except without mez or buffs. And did less damage too. A 60 wizard with clarity gets 30 mana/tick regen and spells that do about 4 damage/mana. That equates to almost exactly 20 damage per second. An enchanter charmed pet does 100 damage per second. Granted those seconds aren't the same (all seconds/combat seconds) but still, if you are fighting 1/5 of the time your group sucks.

Of course all this changes on a raid scenario.

Also no warrior is going to steal aggro from a paladin unless the paladin is asleep at the wheel.

[Splorf22]

I would like to add that we get these posts every so often about 'oh, all you other wizards suck, *I* know the true way to play the class' when its simple mathematics that wizards are the absolute worst class for any xp group, well behind druids and rangers even.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like to add that we get these posts every so often about 'oh, all you other wizards suck, *I* know the true way to play the class' when its simple mathematics that wizards are the absolute worst class for any xp group, well behind druids and rangers even.

Sure if you put math too it you can make it sound worse than it is. But you're not taking into account pulling time, afk's, clerics needing mana, tank gaining control/aggro, stopping to rebuff etc...

Say I do 20% dmg of a mobs life in one nuke, if I land two of those nukes I'm essentially doing 40% of that mobs life. That's almost half as much as the rest of the group. As long as lulls in the group allow me to do that I can stay on top of DPS without much problem. Your simple mathematics tells me that if I'm doing 40% of a mobs life and the other 5 group members combined are doing 60% who do you think is going to be doing the most damage out of said group?

I do realize things change from zone to zone, with mobs and hp's and percentages. But your simple mana/damage ratio doesn't necessarily hold up.

I have quarreled many times of the ins and outs of the Wizard/Sorc class in many games spanning 15 years of experience. I'm not always right, but in the end I have always been known for and appreciated for the DPS I bring to the table. And if all the others sending me tells for groups can see it then that's all that matters to me.

[Xaeophi]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So basically you are saying that a great wizard plays like a gimped enchanter.

Don't get me wrong, Wizards are a great raid class, arguably the single best raid class in Kunark and still very good in Velious, but for XP groups a bit of simple math can convince you that they suck.

If my group was War/Monk/Shm/Enc/Clr and I had a choice between a Paladin and a Wizard, I'd take the Paladin . . . who can do all the same CC a wizard can, while also tanking and letting the Warrior berserk for twice the wizard's dps.

Of course all this min/max is nothing compared to picking players that are fun to chat with [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warrior for twice the wizards dps.. Lol.. someones never ran pars on a wizard.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Xaeophi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warrior for twice the wizards dps.. Lol.. someones never ran pars on a wizard.

You don't have to parse a wizard; you can easily compute a fairly mediocre upper bound on their dps (21 mana/tick regen + 11/tick clarity = 32 mana/tick * 3.5 damage/mana for Sunstrike = 114 damage/tick = 20 damage/second). You have a warrior, are you really claiming you can't average 40+ dps in a group? And in a good group the melee will be fighting almost continuously with chain pulls. Not to mention that warrior will provide more spell interrupts than a wizard with bash/kick/crippling blows if berserk for dps.

Of course, as I have stated 50 times in this thread, all of this calculus changes for raiding in general and for Kunark bosses in particular where wizards are absolutely devastating.

[Raavak]

I think the OP was talking about exp grind situations. I don't think you will get many who will disagree that wizards rule in alot of raid situations.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the OP was talking about exp grind situations. I don't think you will get many who will disagree that wizards rule in alot of raid situations.

There isn't a whole lot of difference for a wizard between raid situations and grouping situations though. There is only one variable that determines the outcome of our DPS and that is mana regen. Now granted certain debuffs on the mob are going to lower its resistances and let you hit for max more often, but exp grind mobs don't typically have the resists that most raid targets do.

Str, Dex, Agi, Sta, Cha, Attack do nothing for a wizard. All a wizard needs is mana regen. Even there gear doesn't make much difference. Because once a wizard starts unloading mana at that point it becomes a game of regenerating mana not how hard you are hitting. Gear does help you store more mana and eventually get off more nukes but it's not going to make your spells hit any harder.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There isn't a whole lot of difference for a wizard between raid situations and grouping situations though.

Pre-Velious most boss fights last less than 30 seconds. Mana regen and even mana pool don't matter much. Things change in Velious.

[SamwiseBanned]

wizards without crack in a group chain pulling mobs will have a hard time nuking more than once per pull if that.