Suggestions For Wizards

[Raavak]

I think the OP was talking about exp grind situations. I don't think you will get many who will disagree that wizards rule in alot of raid situations.

[SamwiseBanned]

wizards without crack in a group chain pulling mobs will have a hard time nuking more than once per pull if that.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the OP was talking about exp grind situations. I don't think you will get many who will disagree that wizards rule in alot of raid situations.

There isn't a whole lot of difference for a wizard between raid situations and grouping situations though. There is only one variable that determines the outcome of our DPS and that is mana regen. Now granted certain debuffs on the mob are going to lower its resistances and let you hit for max more often, but exp grind mobs don't typically have the resists that most raid targets do.

Str, Dex, Agi, Sta, Cha, Attack do nothing for a wizard. All a wizard needs is mana regen. Even there gear doesn't make much difference. Because once a wizard starts unloading mana at that point it becomes a game of regenerating mana not how hard you are hitting. Gear does help you store more mana and eventually get off more nukes but it's not going to make your spells hit any harder.

[Splorf22]

I put that first sentence because the OP was talking about this 'great wizard' who did a lot of stuns and roots, i.e. played like a enchanter, except without mez or buffs. And did less damage too. A 60 wizard with clarity gets 30 mana/tick regen and spells that do about 4 damage/mana. That equates to almost exactly 20 damage per second. An enchanter charmed pet does 100 damage per second. Granted those seconds aren't the same (all seconds/combat seconds) but still, if you are fighting 1/5 of the time your group sucks.

Of course all this changes on a raid scenario.

Also no warrior is going to steal aggro from a paladin unless the paladin is asleep at the wheel.

[Splorf22]

I would like to add that we get these posts every so often about 'oh, all you other wizards suck, *I* know the true way to play the class' when its simple mathematics that wizards are the absolute worst class for any xp group, well behind druids and rangers even.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There isn't a whole lot of difference for a wizard between raid situations and grouping situations though.

Pre-Velious most boss fights last less than 30 seconds. Mana regen and even mana pool don't matter much. Things change in Velious.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like to add that we get these posts every so often about 'oh, all you other wizards suck, *I* know the true way to play the class' when its simple mathematics that wizards are the absolute worst class for any xp group, well behind druids and rangers even.

Sure if you put math too it you can make it sound worse than it is. But you're not taking into account pulling time, afk's, clerics needing mana, tank gaining control/aggro, stopping to rebuff etc...

Say I do 20% dmg of a mobs life in one nuke, if I land two of those nukes I'm essentially doing 40% of that mobs life. That's almost half as much as the rest of the group. As long as lulls in the group allow me to do that I can stay on top of DPS without much problem. Your simple mathematics tells me that if I'm doing 40% of a mobs life and the other 5 group members combined are doing 60% who do you think is going to be doing the most damage out of said group?

I do realize things change from zone to zone, with mobs and hp's and percentages. But your simple mana/damage ratio doesn't necessarily hold up.

I have quarreled many times of the ins and outs of the Wizard/Sorc class in many games spanning 15 years of experience. I'm not always right, but in the end I have always been known for and appreciated for the DPS I bring to the table. And if all the others sending me tells for groups can see it then that's all that matters to me.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by SamwiseBanned [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

wizards without crack in a group chain pulling mobs will have a hard time nuking more than once per pull if that.

This I agree with. It's tough on Wizards to be chain pulling without any clarity whatsoever. And if I ran into this scenario often I would feel differently. But inevitably a cleric runs lom, or puller or tank needs to afk at times. There are many lulls in groups that allow a wizard breathing time to med.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure if you put math too it you can make it sound worse than it is. But you're not taking into account pulling time, afk's, clerics needing mana, tank gaining control/aggro, stopping to rebuff etc...

Say I do 20% dmg of a mobs life in one nuke, if I land two of those nukes I'm essentially doing 40% of that mobs life. That's almost half as much as the rest of the group. As long as lulls in the group allow me to do that I can stay on top of DPS without much problem. Your simple mathematics tells me that if I'm doing 40% of a mobs life and the other 5 group members combined are doing 60% who do you think is going to be doing the most damage out of said group?

I do realize things change from zone to zone, with mobs and hp's and percentages. But your simple mana/damage ratio doesn't necessarily hold up.

I have quarreled many times of the ins and outs of the Wizard/Sorc class in many games spanning 15 years of experience. I'm not always right, but in the end I have always been known for and appreciated for the DPS I bring to the table. And if all the others sending me tells for groups can see it then that's all that matters to me.

How about a gentleman's bet for 5k then? We can form an XP group for Sebilis or HS (anywhere with plenty of mobs) with my 60 enchanter and your wizard for an hour or two. If my charmed pet outdamages your wizard nukes, I win (obviously I still have to CC and buff). Anything less, you win.

If you prefer, we can insist that the group includes a 55+ shaman and a 58+ tank, in which case I'd be willing to accept 2:1 odds (pet outdamages you by a factor of two).

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about a gentleman's bet for 5k then? We can form an XP group for Sebilis or HS (anywhere with plenty of mobs) with my 60 enchanter and your wizard for an hour or two. If my charmed pet outdamages your wizard nukes, I win (obviously I still have to CC and buff). Anything less, you win.

If you prefer, we can insist that the group includes a 55+ shaman and a 58+ tank, in which case I'd be willing to accept 2:1 odds (pet outdamages you by a factor of two).

Well firstly I'm not even 60 yet, and not even close too it. This is experience from EQ live talking. And my current experience in Project99 which is virtually identical to this point.

The comparison made earlier in this thread was that Wizards were gimped Enchanters. I know how well Enchanters charmed pets can be. We took down RZ in Tactics, and sailed through tipt trials time and again with Enchanter pets. And yes I'm sure your pet plus your DPS would be more than mine. But no way in hell will you out DPS me without that pet with us being equal level and somewhat similar gear.

Sure if I had all the right conditions of a tank with the highest aggro in game, necros twitching me nonstop, and clarity 2 my DPS would be insane too.