Verina Tomb

[Lickum]

Originally Posted by Amontillado [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A guild rotation seems dumb to me.
What about those Enchanters that are unguilded? An enchanter without a guild can pretty easily get a group together for this kill.

Maybe what is needed is a line, similar to how Chancellor used to be for the Howling Stones key piece. First come order... though I can see modifying this a bit, so the enchanter doesn't need to be logged in 24 hours a day, up to 7 days.... Perhaps another toon can hold their spot.

I don't see how it is dumb, other epic pieces require at least a small raid to get, why would they want to cockblock somebody on this piece when they would have a difficult enough time getting some if there other pieces?

Just don't see many pickup raids on this server.

[Sylexis]

Originally Posted by Amontillado [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A guild rotation seems dumb to me.
What about those Enchanters that are unguilded? An enchanter without a guild can pretty easily get a group together for this kill.

Maybe what is needed is a line, similar to how Chancellor used to be for the Howling Stones key piece. First come order... though I can see modifying this a bit, so the enchanter doesn't need to be logged in 24 hours a day, up to 7 days.... Perhaps another toon can hold their spot.

A waiting list sounds like a perfectly suitable idea.

Originally Posted by Lickum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see how it is dumb, other epic pieces require at least a small raid to get, why would they want to cockblock somebody on this piece when they would have a difficult enough time getting some if there other pieces?

Just don't see many pickup raids on this server.

So just because I can't say, field a force for Severilous to get my green dragon scale for my epic just yet, you say I shouldn't have a right to do a 3man fight for my epic and get it out of the way? No, if an enchanter is able to do this fight and wants to camp it and can bring the force necessary in the alotted time then you can't just tell them no, I won't let you. Sure it's kind of annoying that lots of pieces might sit banked for a while but gosh if everyone actually did things in only the most efficient manner there would be no one left pre 60 without epics by now and the server would be a ghost town (oh look there goes a tumbleweed).

[Lickum]

Originally Posted by Sylexis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A waiting list sounds like a perfectly suitable idea.




So just because I can't say, field a force for Severilous to get my green dragon scale for my epic just yet, you say I shouldn't have a right to do a 3man fight for my epic and get it out of the way? No, if an enchanter is able to do this fight and wants to camp it and can bring the force necessary in the alotted time then you can't just tell them no, I won't let you. Sure it's kind of annoying that lots of pieces might sit banked for a while but gosh if everyone actually did things in only the most efficient manner there would be no one left pre 60 without epics by now and the server would be a ghost town (oh look there goes a tumbleweed).

I guess we just wont see eye to eye on this. I personally wouldn't contest this camp knowing that for most the enchanters there its their final piece. If I worked on the rest of the quest, by the time I got toVerina there probably wouldn't be a line. I would never tell anybody they couldn't do something, like I'm some higher power, but I can't say I would sympathize with them.

[Sylexis]

Originally Posted by Lickum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess we just wont see eye to eye on this. I personally wouldn't contest this camp knowing that for most the enchanters there its their final piece. If I worked on the rest of the quest, by the time I got toVerina there probably wouldn't be a line. I would never tell anybody they couldn't do something, like I'm some higher power, but I can't say I would sympathize with them.

It's not that I don't think deferring to players who need it as the last piece isn't the right thing to do, but it's not enforceable.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Amontillado [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A guild rotation seems dumb to me.
What about those Enchanters that are unguilded? An enchanter without a guild can pretty easily get a group together for this kill.

In the suggested rotation there is an idea in place to allow unguilded (the wording was "...in a non primary guild...") enchanters a chance at the mob. I am definitely not opposed to a line like chancelor.

[Zinyen]

I don't know how to solve this problem, but there definitely is a problem.

People didn't sit in a room in neriak for 5 days straight in 1999. This shit isn't classic

edit: just curious, whats happened to cause this thread? who got the last verina?

[Llabak]

Originally Posted by Zinyen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know how to solve this problem, but there definitely is a problem.

People didn't sit in a room in neriak for 5 days straight in 1999. This shit isn't classic

edit: just curious, whats happened to cause this thread? who got the last verina?

From the perspective of the BDA necro at the last spawn. Taken's perspective may well be different:

Last Verina was a bitch of a spawn, went damn near to the end of the window. She popped, and people came running. THere were about 15 or so people in the zone or so, perhaps 4 or 5 taken, 4 BDA, and a smattering of others. I, 56 necro, engaged Verina, being assured that with a 59 cleric, 60 druid and the epic-waiting enchanter we'd have no problem dropping her. 50-something warrior was zoning in as I engaged.

My pet got FTE and then Taken jumped in on the mob. Lostprophets (epic warrior) outdamaged my pet (go fig) and their group got the kill. Their chanter looted the epic piece and they all left.

Their argument was that I we couldn't claim the camp with a necro/cleric/druid/chanter, since that didn't represent "kill force," I think confusing the camping rules (need killing force) with the FTE rules (first to engage on a popped mob wins). BDA petitioned, GM agreed that we had FTE and deserved the loot, and our chanter received the piece.

I'm pleased to note that through it all, Taken and BDA were relatively civil to each other (in non /gu at least giggle), and there wasn't any ugly name calling. I suspect, however, that there are some people on both sides who aren't happy with the way things went, and aren't happy with specific members of the other guild, which is really a shame.

In summation, this whole thing is a giant clusterfuck. It seems like there are permanent trackmules just sitting there in the room staring at the spawn point, and while there's no clickfest like Ragefire, it's still hardly a healthy situation. It would be great if the leadership of the big guilds would get together and hash out a rotation just like Ragefire. I, however, am just a worker bee logging in to kill pixels, and so my opinion isn't worth a whole heck of a lot.

-Berty, BDA Necro

[Kope]

Thanks for that explination Berty.

It would be nice if some of the guild leaders could post some of their thoughts on this. It would save a lot of frustration for not only the enchanters but the guilds involved in this camp.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Llabak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From the perspective of the BDA necro at the last spawn. Taken's perspective may well be different:

Last Verina was a bitch of a spawn, went damn near to the end of the window. She popped, and people came running. THere were about 15 or so people in the zone or so, perhaps 4 or 5 taken, 4 BDA, and a smattering of others. I, 56 necro, engaged Verina, being assured that with a 59 cleric, 60 druid and the epic-waiting enchanter we'd have no problem dropping her. 50-something warrior was zoning in as I engaged.

My pet got FTE and then Taken jumped in on the mob. Lostprophets (epic warrior) outdamaged my pet (go fig) and their group got the kill. Their chanter looted the epic piece and they all left.

Their argument was that I we couldn't claim the camp with a necro/cleric/druid/chanter, since that didn't represent "kill force," I think confusing the camping rules (need killing force) with the FTE rules (first to engage on a popped mob wins). BDA petitioned, GM agreed that we had FTE and deserved the loot, and our chanter received the piece.

I'm pleased to note that through it all, Taken and BDA were relatively civil to each other (in non /gu at least giggle), and there wasn't any ugly name calling. I suspect, however, that there are some people on both sides who aren't happy with the way things went, and aren't happy with specific members of the other guild, which is really a shame.

In summation, this whole thing is a giant clusterfuck. It seems like there are permanent trackmules just sitting there in the room staring at the spawn point, and while there's no clickfest like Ragefire, it's still hardly a healthy situation. It would be great if the leadership of the big guilds would get together and hash out a rotation just like Ragefire. I, however, am just a worker bee logging in to kill pixels, and so my opinion isn't worth a whole heck of a lot.

-Berty, BDA Necro

I personally got Verina with 60 enc/sk/sham + 54 sk and it was pretty close (I remember Nlaar and I did practically all of our epic quests together somehow. And for all the forum rage against Coldblooded, she spent a LOT of time helping the guild with these things.). So IMO your kill force is right on the edge, and Taken is not really right, but they are not really wrong either. Of course if Taken didn't engage then your warrior would have zoned in and that would probably push you over the edge.

Really this kind of thing makes me sad. I feel like most of the second tier guilds are just as viciously cutthroat as TMO, they just don't play as much.

[Striiker]

Originally Posted by Llabak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From the perspective of the BDA necro at the last spawn. Taken's perspective may well be different:

Last Verina was a bitch of a spawn, went damn near to the end of the window. She popped, and people came running. THere were about 15 or so people in the zone or so, perhaps 4 or 5 taken, 4 BDA, and a smattering of others. I, 56 necro, engaged Verina, being assured that with a 59 cleric, 60 druid and the epic-waiting enchanter we'd have no problem dropping her. 50-something warrior was zoning in as I engaged.

My pet got FTE and then Taken jumped in on the mob. Lostprophets (epic warrior) outdamaged my pet (go fig) and their group got the kill. Their chanter looted the epic piece and they all left.

Their argument was that I we couldn't claim the camp with a necro/cleric/druid/chanter, since that didn't represent "kill force," I think confusing the camping rules (need killing force) with the FTE rules (first to engage on a popped mob wins). BDA petitioned, GM agreed that we had FTE and deserved the loot, and our chanter received the piece.

I'm pleased to note that through it all, Taken and BDA were relatively civil to each other (in non /gu at least giggle), and there wasn't any ugly name calling. I suspect, however, that there are some people on both sides who aren't happy with the way things went, and aren't happy with specific members of the other guild, which is really a shame.

In summation, this whole thing is a giant clusterfuck. It seems like there are permanent trackmules just sitting there in the room staring at the spawn point, and while there's no clickfest like Ragefire, it's still hardly a healthy situation. It would be great if the leadership of the big guilds would get together and hash out a rotation just like Ragefire. I, however, am just a worker bee logging in to kill pixels, and so my opinion isn't worth a whole heck of a lot.

-Berty, BDA Necro

I'll add my commentary to this thread as I have been personally involved with some of the commentary here and have felt the sting of losing the spawn to another force etc.

So, I was the <Taken> enchanter referenced by Berty. It was indeed a crappy camp. This was my third shot at Verina. My First camp was lost to BDA as they got a force capable of killing her first and we watched them kill her. My warrior arrived about 30 seconds after they engaged. I congratulated the enchanter and I was happy for him (and yeah, a little jealous) :-) My second camp got interrupted as my daughter was visiting and I left the camp to spend time with her and another <Taken> enchanter took over. My third attempt was the one referenced by Berty above. A Lvl 56 Necro pet along with the force mentioned above was not capable of killing a lvl 60 Cleric mob nor would it have lasted long enough if your warrior made it in a couple of minutes later (I don't know where your warrior was zoning into but I never saw him in zone as the attack was under way). Our warrior (lvl 60 with epic) saw what you had and attacked 9 seconds after your pet did as his interpretation of the posted rules was that you did not have a force capable of killing the camped mob. (I'm guessing you saw that our warrior was in zone and decided to take a gamble by attacking her) On the server though, FTE trumps other rules and we should have waited for you to wipe. There was never a dispute that you were FTE, just that you were not first to the camp with a kill force capable. It was akin to kiting a dragon. Yes, you are engaged but you can't kill it. I'll skip any other thoughts or notions on this part as it will drag on and on.
Our guild leader communicated with the BDA guild leader to see about a compromise and in the end we agreed to hand over the drop and Amelinda facilitated it (without investigating). I agree that both sides handled the dispute well.
I decided to camp her again (4th time) and started tracking her about a day after her window opened up and Kopi and I had a pleasant conversation (as did Freeid and I). The server was repopped and Kopi had most of his force ready to go but no warrior. <Taken> got our force there and got the kill (finally).
I felt relief at finally getting this behind me but I also felt badly for those yet to get their kill. I agree that this camp should get on a rotation similar to Ragefire (ugh, and I've been doing that camp a lot too). An agreement should be reached with the guilds to rotate this mob. To those who feel that unguided enchanters should be included, I disagree. Verina Tomb and a few other of the mobs can be killed with a strong group but there are other pieces which really need a larger force which pretty much needs a guild. (The Prince in Chardok and the Wraith in Fear really do need a raid force to get to in my opinion and I am sure some will disagree.) I do urge the guilds to work up a rotation. Perhaps a meeting can be held with representatives of each of the capable guilds to agree to a rotation etc. Just doing this through the message boards is not going to succeed as there will be people throwing in comments and criticisms and the conversation will go nowhere.