Classic Tanks

[Keebz]

Rangers don't get SoW, until what... 39 in classic?

[Nagoya]

not 30 like current blue? that would suck for them.
either way i was just saying stuff i used to do on my ranger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
was a fun class to play. especially loved the versatility when travelling / moving around.
SoW, Snare/Roots, Heals, Track, Levitate, Enduring Breath, Camouflage, Harmony, Infravision... you always feel like you see everything around and can outrun anything anytime. one of the safest toon i played, even though their reputation is "lol dead ranger" - didn't do much tanking tho, was mostly Pull/DPS.

[Rooj]

Yeah SoW level for RNG gets reduced at some point. Back on live during era I always wanted to level RNG but never did, which is why it was the first thing I did when coming to P99 during late Classic. Was definitely my favorite class experience. Then on one of the live progression servers I wanted to continue beyond Velious since most of my experience was Classic/Kunark so I remade my RNG on Phinigel. Was fun proccing Headshot while solo EXPing/AAing in Grieg's End.

With pulling in groups, I'd pull with Snare or Root or both, and by the time the 1st mob was dead, the 2nd mob would be arriving.

[soronil]

Just when I think I have decided against a ranger. Ugh. Do you guys think life is more fun on classic as a ranger, monk, or paladin(erudite...)? Or a gnome rogue. I will also play a mage, so I am not worried about not having a char for solo/duo, or one that is useful indoor dungeons. I'm just trying to decide what is fun. I am playing a SK right now, so part of me wants to be able to do damage, and part of me wants to not have pulling/tanking responsibility, but I do love flexibility. So hard to decide!

[Seungkyu]

@soronil
You want melee dps and no tanking/pulling. You've only left yourself one class your already interested in. Rogue. Go for it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

@Keebz
Race/Class for Tanking
Ogre is the best Shadowknight race.
Dwarf is the best Paladin race.
Human is the best Ranger race.
It just comes down to which race has the most Sta/HP.

Erudite Paladin is comparable to Dwarf with a Shield of the Stalwart Seas.
https://wiki.project1999.com/Shield_..._Stalwart_Seas

High Elf Paladin gets access to Nature's Defender if you can't finish your epic by Velious.
https://wiki.project1999.com/Nature_defender

I personally believe Nature's Defender comes too late and High Elf Paladin is one of the worst class/races for min/max.

Planes/Raids
I've played both SK and Paladin during Velious endgame, and to be honest they aren't the most useful.

SK: If you are a really good FD puller and can outplay most monks, then you can be very valuable on raids.
Otherwise your relegated to ghetto dps or tanking adds.

Paladin are very useful if your very good at timing LoH to save the main tank in a raid.
I don't think Target's Target existed in classic, so this would be very hard to do on green.
Otherwise your relegated to ghetto dps or tanking adds, or healing.

Though it was very useful to heal on raids, I had this nagging voice in the back of my head. "Why didn't I just roll a cleric?"

Ranger
You become much more valuable in Velious with Trueshot and Weaponshield disciplines.
Otherwise your relegated to dps or tanking adds.

From what I can tell with skill caps and gear, a Ranger wouldn't be a bad tank in classic.

Edit: I will add some more information here since it keeps coming up.

[Seungkyu]

....
Okay I've spent more time digging some information.

One of the main things that separate War/SK/Pal/Rng is their gear. At an early point in classic there should be the Lustrous Russet armor set. With this in game the gap becomes smaller.

War/Pal/Rng comparison in full classic endgame/Lustrous Russet (Completely decked out)
The 3 are Human with initial stats invested in STA
Warrior has 500 more HP and 50 more AC than the Ranger.
Warrior has 450 more Hp and 50 less AC than the Paladin.
The Paladin has 50 more HP and 100 more AC than the Ranger.

The paladin has more AC due to certain class restrictive items such as Shield of the Immaculate, and Symbol of Marr.

What I've learned from this case study is that Warriors gain more hp per Sta than I thought.
The difference between Warrior and Sk/Pal is bigger than Sk/Pal to Ranger.

This isn't a realistic example because not everyone will be able to get a full set of Lustrous Russet.
However it shows that Rangers are more than capable of being able to tank up to level 50.

The mid level comparison for Lustrous Russet that I do expect many to get a full set on Rangers is Rubicite.

Think it took me over an hour to get all this information. Hope it helps people before it gets buried somewhere.

[Palemoon]

I was a high elf Paladin at the very start of red99. I can't remember anyone else in full rubicite but me, and then later I got a full set of lusterous and the other paladin classic toys. Was first epic server wide too and won Paladin BoTB on the server.

I ended up tanking most mobs for my guild and was tank for many of the server firsts in late classic and kunark. We used warriors and mallets for some stuff but if memory serves it was me for I think all of Kunark in era appropriate gear. I think some deep sky stuff was warrior territory.

I can say without a doubt that a Paladin (and I'd imagine SK) is the far far faaaar superior group tank compared to warrior, especially in the era where everyone wants to charm. Warrior is not saving the enchanter. Paladin can stun the mob on charmbreaks and make the enchanter's life super ez.

Can't speak on velious because I quit right before Vel.

Moral of the story: if you are a dedicated and good player, follow your heart and don't worry about min/max.

See, this makes me want to reroll a hybrid for green haha. But i'd like to try something new. Maybe bard hmm....

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Palemoon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was a high elf Paladin at the very start of red99.

What was the exp bonus for red back then?

My main fear with paladin is not getting the useful / fun spells early (Root is 22 and Stun is 30). It just seems like a long slog being a weakling FoL bot. After that Paladin seems pretty fun though. Lots of finesse and a high skill cap.

SK and Ranger on the other hand, seem to have a decent kit by 15, and get even more useful stuff later.

So a new more distilled topic:

How would you rank the tanks by QoL while leveling on a fresh server?

All in all, SK seems like the easiest tank to start out as on fresh classic server. Great snap aggro, great QoL kit (Invis/ITU/Snare/FD/Hide), and beefy race choices, but for some reason the additional race penalty seems like a serious detriment. Not sure if that will deter groups. Being a big race (on of the appeals of SKs) also kind of sucks for dungeon-ing.

Paladin could be good but the early levels seem rough, esp. as a HIE/ERU. Not being a giant and being a good faction are probably worth something as well. Not sure if groups will actively consider the race choice. I'd imagine all things being equal, the Ogre/Troll SK will get the nod over the HIE PAL for group invites. A Dwarf might be more competitive, but they've ruined their homelands and I can't let them ruin mine.

Ranger though not a true tank has a good kit, but seems hard to get groups with, esp. if there is already a hybrid tanking. I'm thinking sticking to the outdoor dungeons may be a different story, however.

Warrior is probably near the top due to race choices and exp bonus, but the lack of abilities is going to mean maximum dependence on others. I'd give a few bonus points for Halfing due to sneak and hide, and Barb for having easy access to Langsex, being beefy, while mostly fitting in dungeons.