Players will always compete for raid mobs; the point of contention is the rules

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by SCB [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the current server situation. If you think batphoning is time-intensive, you're crazy. The average hardcore EQ raider doesn't raid for 10 hours solid like in the old days. It's "CT POP" text message, 20 minutes to assemble/pull, 2 minute kill, collect pixels, log.

Feel the excitement.

Exactly, and any other guilds are free to compete along those lines. I totally agree with you and to me, it makes posts like Falkun's a page back where he seems to claim that TMO is filled with unemployed losers seem that much more ridiculous. The competition is to get organized to the point where you can batphone and drop a mob before anybody else.

You talk about competition, and the only guild to TRY to compete with TMO is FE a couple months ago, and honestly, it looked like both FE and TMO were having good fun competing. No other guilds have even tried or have long ago 'given up as to not waste their members' time'.

I never said batphoning itself was time intensive. Everything it takes to get there is time intensive. Having multiple 60 alts logged and ready in multiple locations is time intensive. Having a guild of fully motivated players ready to batphone 24/7 is time consuming. Having a guild that doesn't fall apart or let infighting/drama/corruption affect them is time consuming.

So how are raid tokens exciting exactly? Not sure what can match the excitement of being a guild like FE stealing Traks from TMO, or being TMO finally getting their first trak kills. The thing is, any guild can do that... they just don't have the fortitude for it. That's the competition and it always has been.

Not sure what the point would be if every guild just gets to kill every raid mob each week. We'll all be BiS in no time and who even cares at that point? I mean any guild can go to some other EMU and already do this. The main point I am trying to make, is if every person in every guild is able to easily suit up BiS in a few months of raiding, where's the motivation? At least here, there is super difficult to obtain end gear and the glory of killing gods that is more sought after than what any item or raid mob in any other live MMO can offer today.

[SCB]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So how are raid tokens exciting exactly?

I'd rather watch a fraps of the A-Team 12-manning Phara Dar through some insane trick they pull than watch FE/TMO train-drama unfold.

There's a reason I have the "Solo Artist Challenge" thread bookmarked and have watched Tecmos fraps, but could not give a shit less about Tiggles stream.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please search for usernames such as "Alarti0001".

Did you actually recommend that someone read Alarti's posts? Anyway, it's amazing how effective the various trolls are at turning these threads into RNF material. Going to give up on this one.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you actually recommend that someone read Alarti's posts? Anyway, it's amazing how effective the various trolls are at turning these threads into RNF material. Going to give up on this one.

Only when responding to Sericx. Personally I've added Alarti to my ignore and this forum is much better because of it.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by SCB [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't have a cell phone until 2002 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well good thing the content in game doesn't require one. Email has been around for a while.

[aowen]

This thread validates the position that so many people on this server are just a bunch of assholes. The original post points out issues that do cause problems for the majority of players, and the arguments supporting the current status-quo are absurd.

Most arguments for keeping raiding as is include:
Stop whining and step up to our level
Batphones are not that time consuming and can save time
The staff doesn't owe you anything
There would be high levels of competition regardless

While there is some merit to these points, most of them avoid the issue, which is a rising level of discontent with the raid scene. Batphones are impractical for many people, VP and most coveted targets are inaccessible for most, and there are solutions that would not require much time from the staff. But rather than have a serious discussion, many of you choose to act like cunts and divert the narrative to nonsense.

What this server needs to do is develop a sense of community and fair play rather than alienation and a king of the mountain mentality. Everyone wants to hit a dragon now and again, so let's see if someone can propose a coherent system to facilitate that goal.

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We have no problem with Variance and FTE shouts. We actually enjoy them at this point.

I really don't believe deep down you or your trackers enjoy variance; you enjoy the after effect of not having everyone ready to attack the mob right as it pops. Situations like below indicate why better solutions to variance could exist, ie server repops more often.

I think the only encounter I ever had with you in game was around last winter/early spring when I was trioing Ragefire with Zagum and Luchino from TMO. Full Circle was there that night as well, and everyone was poopsocking Ragefire to FTE hand in a pearl to him. We all spent like 9+ hours there from like 7 PM to 4:30 AM (maybe longer and Ragefire never popped), and Ragefire never popped before we all went to sleep or had to go to work.

That variance situation, in which Ragefire spawned like 40 hours into window, was a lot of fun. Like 19 players, including the Full Circle people there, were all just staring at the wall.

Yes, I know Ragefire is always a variance mob, but the point is that variance does not lead to actual enjoyment in playing the game. I would argue that tracking is not really playing the game; it's like forcing yourself to be AFK and stare at the screen.

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I'm sure that night is how Brad McQuad intended EQ to be played.. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The crazy thing with variance is that some guilds have responded by having a force present for the entire time a mob is in window as seen with people wanting to get VS, Sev, or Innoruuk. That is some real crazy shit. Like instead of mobilizing, people will engage in self-abuse behavior such as tracking for days straight in shifts.

I know this is a bit off topic, but all the ad hominem in these threads seems unnecessary. A lot of us are the same, have the same goals, and have fun when we work together. Here is my favorite moment I've had in EQ; look at the guild tags in the picture.
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[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by aowen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The original post points out issues that do cause problems for the majority of players, and the arguments supporting the current status-quo are absurd.

Alright you've sucked me into one more post [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Damn forumquest!

What's funny is I made a post describing precisely how the whole 'you don't want to compete' type thinking is dumb, and then a bunch of people responded with precisely that.

Originally Posted by skipdog

Motivation to have highly sought after and hard to get gear keeps many of us playing.

We have 11 guilds on the Sky Rotation; at two tokens each thats 22 raid mobs a week vs 19 currently (17 if you don't count Maestro and Dracoliche) which equates to a 15% increase in raid mobs. It's not like the server would be flooded with bone-clasped girdles. And the number of tokens per guild could always be adjusted down if a lot of the guilds broke up into smaller ones to get more tokens as I expect would happen. Again, my point is that a token system is just as competitive, just not as retarded.

Originally Posted by Skipdog

Trying to smear 'being organized, being dedicated and being capable of fast mobilization' as not being competition just seems really silly

This is precisely the kind of straw man that I am raging about in the original post. Organization and mobilization are about 10% of what it takes to get raid mobs on P1999, with "dedication" being another one of those idiotic code words for 'I sat at my computer hitting track for 40 hours this week'

Originally Posted by Vianna

WE GOT INNORUUK

See if I was a member of Forceful Entry and got up to kill some random pixels at 5AM, I would be pretty unhappy even if we actually got said pixels. Of course I would be really unhappy if I was Sericx. But again, I'm not anti-TMO and never have been. TMO is simply a guild that is designed to beat the current system. Their point that that other guilds can be designed to beat this system is reasonable.

Again, the current raid system is not unfair, just stupid. And with that I'm out for good!

P.S. Sericx, if I were you I'd stop arguing with Kenzar.

[Vianna]

[QUOTE=zanderklocke;1061917]I really don't believe deep down you or your trackers enjoy variance; you enjoy the after effect of not having everyone ready to attack the mob right as it pops. Situations like below indicate why better solutions to variance could exist, ie server repops more often.

I think the only encounter I ever had with you in game was around last winter/early spring when I was trioing Ragefire with Zagum and Luchino from TMO. Full Circle was there that night as well, and everyone was poopsocking Ragefire to FTE hand in a pearl to him. We all spent like 9+ hours there from like 7 PM to 4:30 AM (maybe longer and Ragefire never popped), and Ragefire never popped before we all went to sleep or had to go to work.

That variance situation, in which Ragefire spawned like 40 hours into window, was a lot of fun. Like 19 players, including the Full Circle people there, were all just staring at the wall.

Yes, I know Ragefire is always a variance mob, but the point is that variance does not lead to actual enjoyment in playing the game. I would argue that tracking is not really playing the game; it's like forcing yourself to be AFK and stare at the screen.


I'm sure that night is how Brad McQuad intended EQ to be played.. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The crazy thing with variance is that some guilds have responded by having a force present for the entire time a mob is in window as seen with people wanting to get VS, Sev, or Innoruuk. That is some real crazy shit. Like instead of mobilizing, people will engage in self-abuse behavior such as tracking for days straight in shifts.

I know this is a bit off topic, but all the ad hominem in these threads seems unnecessary. A lot of us are the same, have the same goals, and have fun when we work together. Here is my favorite moment I've had in EQ; look at the guild tags in the picture.


No I actually enjoy not having to sit at a mob's spawn for hours (Unless it is my turn to track). If you guys knew how insanely easy it is to actually get shots at dragons with just 2 trackers and a batphone with the variance that is in place... I think you would change your view some on this issue...But not completely. Now is it classic ? No. I would prefer the classic ruleset because it would mean no one has to sit at a mob period until it was time for it to spawn.

However when offered to poopsock at the end of a mobs variance window vs. 1 tracker there with a raid force camped out....I'd choose the later. It doesn't burn people out and make them spend a large amount of time at a spawn. The FTE shouts let you know who has logged in fast enough and engaged first and whether you should be helping them kill that mob or not. Another good change from having 2 or 3 guilds kill a mob without any knowing who was actually going to get the loot. FYI Ragefire popped that night at around 1 am not 4:30 we barely spent 3 hours there. You got a fuzzy memory. He spawned about 10 mintues after you guys left.

[zanderklocke]

So if you had to choose between variance and all the mobs on the server popping at once, which would you choose?

I think the second choice would get my adrenaline pumping and be more fun, but that's just me.