Questioning GM Decisions

[mimixownzall]

What most of us can agree on:

If they had just stuck to their rules and banned all the accounts, we would:

1) Still have Uthgaard.
2) See minimal impact on server population (apparent now)
3) 95% of the drama over the past week would not exist.
4) Still have tags /cryface
5) Not have several high level cheaters returning with their equipment and be back to level 60 in less time than they were suspended and laughing quietly inside knowing that they cheated and got a slap on the wrist while many others were permantly banned for lesser offenses.
6) Gotten rid of people (cheaters) most of the population has no desire to see around at all.

The only thing we would still be dealing with would be the issue of raiding suspensions. This could easily be solved by just going off of what has set precedence in the past; if this includes suspending raiding for all guilds, then so be it.

I guess you learn from your mistakes.

[Envious]

Originally Posted by mimixownzall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What most of us can agree on:

If they had just stuck to their rules and banned all the accounts, we would:

1) Still have Uthgaard.
2) See minimal impact on server population (apparent now)
3) 95% of the drama over the past week would not exist.
4) Still have tags /cryface
5) Not have several high level cheaters returning with their equipment and be back to level 60 in less time than they were suspended and laughing quietly inside knowing that they cheated and got a slap on the wrist while many others were permantly banned for lesser offenses.
6) Gotten rid of people (cheaters) most of the population has no desire to see around at all.

Had to read another couple pages... drama is always fun stuff.

As for Hasbinbad, its hard to get a true gauge for the feeling of a issue based purely on private communication. You need an open forum to discuss those things, and that is the point of the boards. If the server staff made a mistake, openly is the place to have the discussion about it.

Keeping things private and veiled is what will ultimately break P99. We saw this 5x on VZ/TZ with 3 or 4 completely different sets of players. Transparency is the best policy, pure and simple. And you have to create a set of rules, and hold to them like a crack fiend holds onto his last rock.

[Hasbinbad]

Most of you guys are making valid points, but hardly any of them touch on the topic of this thread. The topic is that a small group of people are posting threads which are probably detrimental to the server over time, rather than following the outlined methods for voicing grievances. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with what you guys are saying, I'm disagreeing with how you're going about it. If you really want change for the server, follow the rules.

Go about it the right way: compile your evidence; present it in a clear and unmistakable manner to the correct people who have the power to do something about it; don't make useless waves on the server just to hear yourselves rouse rabble; If awareness is a serious issue, make ONE serious post about it in Server Chat (why would you post seriously in RnF, obviously nothing is going to be done about those posts), and gather your support in a realistic manner; present an alternative to the staff which is supported by a large percentage of the server. If THAT doesn't work, accept that fact and either get over it or quit.

Rabble rousing and torch waving isn't getting us anywhere. You're possibly scaring away new players and probably making older players (who had no part in cheating) want to quit. This is across the board and hardly debatable. The only reason I'm here is because of the negative morale shift I've seen (outside my guild mind you) since this latest tide of posts concerning how the rules weren't enforced to your liking. Questioning the GM's publicly is making them less likely to acquiesce to your requests, not more so.

So what are you guys gaining by continuing? Nothing. You get to hear yourselves rant and circle jerk each other into nerdgasm with your shared hatred of Perun, slavering for revenge, blind to the harm you're causing innocents.

So how about you guys organize and go about it in such a way that something might be accomplished. That or sack up and realize things don't always go your way and just stop with the 3rd grade hatespam.

[Aenor]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is the freedom of people to speak their mind - in a manner which has been prohibited, and when the proper manner has been outlined - worth the negative impact this campaign is probably having on this community?

Again, as an outsider on Blue 99 (bout to ding 13 on my dru), and as a sometime PR professional, here's my perspective. While your reasoning certainly follows the letter of the law, it is very obvious that Rogean and Nilbog are setting aside those rules in this instance so as not to appear as if they have something to hide. Allowing people to question the legitimacy of the project does less damage than shutting those people up and confirming their suspicions.

Their agenda seems to be the long term health of the project. Your agenda seems to be to ease the inconvenience of the ongoing discussion for yourself and your ingame associates.

[Daldolma]

ITT: people who think their opinions matter more than they do.

This is Nilbog and Rogean's server. They've made their decision. They've explained their decision. They've read days' worth of gripes about their decision. Nothing you post for the 27th time is going to change their mind. Civil discussion over the situation is fine. The discussion over the punishments has been had and run into the ground half a dozen times over already. Nothing new is being said. You're not a snowflake. If you feel that you have something super duper important that Nilbog and Rogean absolutely must hear before they lift the suspensions, make your way over to the petition forum and fill them in. Otherwise, your clear intent is to be subversive, ultimately deteriorating the quality of the server.

And yes, even if you have the best intentions in mind, if you're continually griping about a decision without going through the proper channels, you are intentionally being subversive. Regardless, HBB's post isn't even directed at those offenders, as far as I can tell. I think HBB is pretty much just referring to the forum trolls and butthurt ex-DA that have been calling for TR blood for a week straight, every minute on the minute.

[Daldolma]

Oh, and just for the record, I think everyone caught cheating should have been banned -- or stripped of all gear at the very least. But like I said, those opinions have been heard ad nauseum already. The decision is made. I've moved on. You can, too.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Hasbinbad your post isn't designed to show people the way to influence GMs and get what they want by posting in a more constructive manner. If you wanted positive change you would address what led to all of this. IN GAME actions. The rules were created due to the actions of a few against a server of many. The raid guilds at the 'top' acting like assholes for so long all of the red tape was created more red tape on top of red tape. I stand by that the manner to fix the problem was to go to the core of the issue, the behavior in game. Because if that was working as it should all of the stuff you complain about wouldn't exist. You preach about posting in a manner so as not to have things look negative here but ignore the acting in a manner to achieve the same.

All the raid guilds on top whomever had to do was not create what we have now. The atmosphere and environment a very small percentage of the population has created is the problem. I would say the people who are up in arms right now care more about the server's reputation and health more then you say to. When IB or TR got to the top with no 'competition' it would have been easy to affect change. Yet greed and arrogance led us to this. You claim people have the same chance due to fair play and fair competition but it isn't. Ever see those commercials where the kids get the run around from the banker, the ally bank commercials? Here is one you can youtube the rest.

It is wrong

It is wrong

It is cause and effect. What will happen in society if times get tougher and now their kids are starving? Protests. Crime goes up. More arrests. Crime goes up some more. Looting. Riots. Social breakdown. The national guard is called in. Martial law. Heck watch V for Vendetta. This is all effect Hasbinad, not cause. I agree with you about the posting reflecting negatively but you played your part in it coming to this. Maybe one of you geniuses could've seen it coming and prevented it. What will happen if we make sure no other guild gets raid targets guys? Is that good or bad for the server. Think they'll mind? Maybe we can help perpetuate a system where the process to get a raid mob becomes so convoluted and bothersome they simply will go away and stop trying. And despite that when it comes out you guys were 'starving' people in an eq sense, mocking them and lording over them, destroying their guilds and friendships and weren't doing it on the up and up you are surprised at the reaction? You blame people who are outraged for turning people away from the server? What about the hundreds who left because of the raid environment here?

It astounds me you think giving a car a new paint job will fix the engine problem. New wallpaper when the house beams are rotting from termites. When your house is crawling with ants don't clean it, throw away garbage and secure food. Just spray ant and roach killer. Put a bandaid on a broken arm.

Again, fix the core issues, the heart of all this. IN GAME actions. And all of this on the forums would go back to the normal RnF silly posts. I am talking about quite simply what you ignore. The nice part of raid nice play nice. And practice what your preach. You can't spit in a man's face and then when he comes looking for blood give him some eye for an eye speech. You don't kick a man's dog and then cry to the police about vandalism when he busts your windows and slashes your car tires. You don't want the guy slashing tires don't kick his fucking dog. You don't want people to cry in outrage? The answer is simple.

This made me chuckle though...

the mascot of the guild

from Mitic. lol

[mitic]

Originally Posted by h0tr0d (shaere) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it comes out you guys were 'starving' people in an eq sense, mocking them and lording over them, destroying their guilds and friendships and weren't doing it on the up and up you are surprised at the reaction? You blame people who are outraged for turning people away from the server? What about the hundreds who left because of the raid environment here?

if you cant fight them with your own weapons use theirs then and camp bosses, do rotations 24/7 to keep them on track, use batphones and stop blaming them on the forums. the only thing you get out of this is showing your own incapacity not being able to get things done.

saying that TR is responsible for destroying others guilds or friendships is just another affirmation about your very own weakness.

besides that,this is where red99 kicks in. join red and sort it out in a different and more competitive way.

[Skope]

HBB, there's always going to be idiots bickering here, spouting the same crap over and over again. You're not noting the difference between someone who can put together an informative, coherent and logical argument and the usual background noise.

I agree with you. This thread proves you right. There are a lot of people yapping endlessly, whether because they're ticked off or because they're ticked off because people are ticked off, but censoring certain posts that should be available for everyone to read in favor of a direct telephone line with the GMs that's prone to blackout isn't fair. Want an example? I've asked both Rogean and nilbog if they'll consider harsher punishments in PM, here and another thread and have yet to get any sort of answer. You're arguing that both the worthy and unworthy shit be redirected away from the rest of the community. That doesn't make any sense, broham. If there's a single thread to prove why you're so dead wrong it's in your own thread.

[Nirgon]

Not like we can point a finger back at the players for ivandyr hooping mobs and not agreeing to a boss kill rotation or anything. That doesn't screw anything up.

It's always the fault of "Blizz"/"Trion"/"Whoever", it's never, ever the scum bag community that screws up the... community... wait.. I see ... what I did there.